Grainger rocket factory raw 30 tri

[wombat 12m 0]

Looks like the first boat has hit the water but there are only a few tantalizing glimpses on the website. Anybody seen or heard anything. I want one ........ now!

[PIL66 - XL2 931]

Pictures or...........

[cynophobe 53]

Don't care what it looks like but I'll bet it's faster than farriers carbon crapper.

[tonygra 0]

The Airplay team is in the final stages of getting their web site operational. I'll let you know on this forum when it's online.

Tony G

[paulnudd 3]

Any news?

[tonygra 0]

Hi Nuddy!

Send me an email (or Skype /phone). graingerdesigns.net

T

[plywoodboy 115]

Don't care what it looks like but I'll bet it's faster than farriers carbon crapper.

Chippie! You don't have to put shite on boats just because their first trials don't work out so well. I bet you were the one putting tins of PAL dogfood on the bows of new IOR designs that took a while to get tuned?

Be patient butterfly, Spirit took a few years before the skilled sailors like you spread the magic pixie dust and got to the podium?

 

Love the sketches of this latest toy, can't wait to see how they go on the water compared to the 3000 Farriers you hang crap on. The Kendrick chines on the main hull with full sections aft, as well as shifted mast aft will be good in a breeze. Nicer copy of the Farrier folding system and beam profile and coaming removal too, put me down for a test sail.

 

My untrained engineer's slide rule is concerned however at the amount of Essential 8 looking float bow unsupported....

[cynophobe 53]

Maybe there should be a seperate thread where you and your mate Mr F can put all the excuses in one place and explain why it's such a great boat because its so quick to rig;)

[paulnudd 3]

Maybe there should be a seperate thread where you and your mate Mr F can put all the excuses in one place and explain why it's such a great boat because its so quick to rig;)

Such a thread exists already. It is the F22 update thread. Unfortunately it bleeds into other threads whenever the F word is used.

But That's Anarchy!

[scottmax 1]

You should have come to Maggie Chippy, the "crappy Farrier" seemed to fly quite nicely. Not bad for a second run out. The only boat to give it any grief was a quite a bit bigger and has been well sailed for the last 3 years in several regattas..

[tonygra 0]

Scott McCook (Prosail Asia) has just spent three days in Xiamen giving the RAW30 a bit of a workout - and sounds like he's pretty impressed. I've posted a couple of pics on the Rocket Factory web site rocketfactorytrimarans.com

They were lucky to have a good range of breeze to give the boat a thorough workout under all sail combinations- over 20 knots one day.

I'll be posting more on the site in the coming weeks and no doubt Scott will also be posting on his site; http://www.prosail-asia.com

Stay tuned, Tony G

[Rawhide 88]

Now that is a design that works for me!

[trispirit 74]

 

Don't care what it looks like but I'll bet it's faster than farriers carbon crapper.

Chippie! You don't have to put shite on boats just because their first trials don't work out so well. I bet you were the one putting tins of PAL dogfood on the bows of new IOR designs that took a while to get tuned?

Be patient butterfly, Spirit took a few years before the skilled sailors like you spread the magic pixie dust and got to the podium?

 

Love the sketches of this latest toy, can't wait to see how they go on the water compared to the 3000 Farriers you hang crap on. The Kendrick chines on the main hull with full sections aft, as well as shifted mast aft will be good in a breeze. Nicer copy of the Farrier folding system and beam profile and coaming removal too, put me down for a test sail.

 

My untrained engineer's slide rule is concerned however at the amount of Essential 8 looking float bow unsupported....

 

I'd like to know where you get your info on Spirit? She broke over 5 records and won more than 15 races in her time in Europe (which was 6 years) and within the first year of launch had broken the Round Island race record and then a year later went onto break the AZAB race record by nearly two days, previous record being four days! This was all in the mid to early 90's and she's still winning!

 

I agree with Chippe Farriers leave a little to be desired especially when you weigh up the cost and are far from what a serious multihull sailor would call fast ;-) but then again there are some people that love'm and good for them, I'm not one of them but the new carbon one in Airlie did look the part the build was beautiful! she just didn't walk the walk ;-)........ well not yet anyway.

 

The new Raws from China on the other hand look great and with Tony's well known past designs and experience they should be flyers and be able to be pushed hard. Old Sorocco here in Airlie is an awesome little tri and has been pushed bloody hard throughout the years. Moving Finger is still a weapon and for their size they both punch well above their weight it will be great to see how these new boats do and it's great to see some new trimaran designs coming out.

 

Well done to all involved hope it all works out. When and where's the first regatta being sailed?

[wombat 12m 0]

Mr Grainger,

fabulous looking boat. Have you managed to assertain an all up sailing weight yet.

[tonygra 0]

Hi Wombat, I have an idea of the weight. We weighed the boat about three weeks before she was launched and I extrapolated some numbers from that - but lets see what the loads cells say next time she comes out of the water.

Tony

[kiwi_bob 1]

Very nice looking boat - like the design concepts //www.rocketfactorytrimarans.com/about-1/about-designing-airplay/

 

Pity its too big for 8.5 rule - also be interested in weight and mast height and where its pricing will come in.

[paulnudd 3]

Very nice looking boat - like the design concepts //www.rocketfactorytrimarans.com/about-1/about-designing-airplay/

 

Pity its too big for 8.5 rule - also be interested in weight and mast height and where its pricing will come in.

8.5 rule might be popular in NZ but it is doing nothing here in Aus as it is way underpowered for our conditions. I hope and imagine the Raw 30 will be powered up as we like them here. Its competition has to be the Seacart 30 with 15+M mast (above the deck not above the water) and a racing weight of less than a tonne (+ crew).

We like them a little longer than 8.5 too. 9M+ is all the rage in Div 1.

[kiwi_bob 1]

Australia seems a big place to have a single generic set of "conditions"but im sure you know your own market.

[paulnudd 3]

Australia seems a big place to have a single generic set of "conditions"but im sure you know your own market.

I'm not saying we have a single generic set of conditions, more saying that it appears that you do, with the popularity of what we consider very underpowered box 8.5 rule boats. I heard of a few Aussies planning to build boats to that rule in the early days of the rule but haven't seen any launched and know of several owners who thought about it but decided it was too restrictive on the rig and so built something that does not fit the rule.

[sonnyboy 0]

Any more information?

I want one!

Best trailer sailor I have seen!

[shane beyer 5]

Well done Tony . Looking forward to see her on the water every where .

[ozmultis 12]

The Kendrick chines on the main hull

Say what Pete? As a former Kendrick 9 metre owner I can fairly safely say that it dont look a lot like the Kendrick. Which was a wonderful boat by the way. And Ray was a delightful chap to deal with.

[paulnudd 3]

Can't wait to see it head to head with the SeaCart 30. How different/similar are the spec's, pricing?

[RedTuna 44]

Nice still photos. Any RAW30 videos?

[Trimariner 7]

Pics, videos, data, weight, performance, etc please asap. Cheers.

[paulnudd 3]

Pics, videos, data, weight, performance, etc please asap. Cheers.

+1

[tonygra 0]

Scott McCook has trialled the RAW30 (10th to 13th October) and written a detailed review (about nine pages I believe) with some excellent photos by Karen Otton. Scott sent me a brief email with some performance data shortly after stepping off the boat on day three. He has kindly given me permission to publish the content of the email and you can find it on the rocketfactorytrimarans.com web site in the Airplay pages (RAW- Performance)

Tony G

[eric e 9]

Scott McCook has trialled the RAW30 (10th to 13th October) and written a detailed review (about nine pages I believe) with some excellent photos by Karen Otton. Scott sent me a brief email with some performance data shortly after stepping off the boat on day three. He has kindly given me permission to publish the content of the email and you can find it on the rocketfactorytrimarans.com web site in the Airplay pages (RAW- Performance)

Tony G

 

http://www.rocketfactorytrimarans.com/airplay-trimarans/airplay-raw30/raw-performance/

[SeaGul 83]

What is the data on mast height and sail area?

 

And the empty weight sail ready?

[paulnudd 3]

Scott McCook has trialled the RAW30 (10th to 13th October) and written a detailed review (about nine pages I believe) with some excellent photos by Karen Otton. Scott sent me a brief email with some performance data shortly after stepping off the boat on day three. He has kindly given me permission to publish the content of the email and you can find it on the rocketfactorytrimarans.com web site in the Airplay pages (RAW- Performance)

Tony G

Thanks for that Tony. Good report and good to see the spec's on the main hull and floats. It will be good to see the mast height, sail area and sailing weight. I hope the sailing weight comes in at way less than the Disp DWL as the Seacart sailing weight is less than 1000kg. Disappointed to see no float rudders. Nearly 2' wider overall than the SeaCart.

[tonygra 0]

Hi Nuddy, Mast height is 14m. neat. We don't have a final weight measurement yet but it will not be less than the Seacart. We haven't set out to nail the world speed record here. It's a good all round performance package using the same hulls and floats as the Sport and Sport Plus boats, incorporating the Farrier folding system. It's very impressive how easily the boat folds on the water. Twin rudders are available as an upgrade.

Tony G

[SeaGul 83]

well the Raw 30 will be 28cm wider and have almost 1m more mast height .... think it will be a serious contender for the Seacart 30...

[wizdeas 3]

Seacart 30 rig is huge at 15.2M. The 6.6M beam keeps it nimble for manoeuvres and has plenty of power to spare. (This is the full carbon version, not the cheaper glass one).

I like the look of the Raw 30 though.

[paulnudd 3]

well the Raw 30 will be 28cm wider and have almost 1m more mast height .... think it will be a serious contender for the Seacart 30...

I guess you are talking about the new 'poverty pack' SeaCart 30. Pity they kept the same name. The real SeaCart 30 has a 15.2M rig and the Raw 30 will not be a serious contender with that.

[oomummado 0]

 

well the Raw 30 will be 28cm wider and have almost 1m more mast height .... think it will be a serious contender for the Seacart 30...

I guess you are talking about the new 'poverty pack' SeaCart 30. Pity they kept the same name. The real SeaCart 30 has a 15.2M rig and the Raw 30 will not be a serious contender with that.

Do you think you should hold off a little on the complete praise of the Seacart until it races a proper regatta with more wind? No question it is a weapon in the light with its huge main and upwind screecher, narrow beam and light weight. I think we need a bit more allround information before we say that a boat like a grainger tri will be no match...... It looked as if Indian Chief had its measure when the breeze was in? Any intel on this?

[paulnudd 3]

Seacart 30 rig is huge at 15.2M. The 6.6M beam keeps it nimble for manoeuvres and has plenty of power to spare. (This is the full carbon version, not the cheaper glass one).

I like the look of the Raw 30 though.

Huge is a relative term, as is plenty of power to spare. The Seacart 30 has set the standard and I thought the Raw 30 would be Tony's answer to the new standard.

The combination of the relatively narrow beam, the light weight and the 15.2 m rig allows the SeaCart to get the centre hull out in light winds, before the competing boats.

Here in Aust we have recently had a Seacart 30 enter the scene and the owner and crew are just getting faster with each appearance.

Indian Chief has a similar mast height and narrow beam but has a weight disadvantage, has added, light wind windward sail area but still can't get a hull out as soon. Mad Max has been the Fastest until the seacart arrived and I'm not sure there is any more that can be done to Mad Max to regain the crown.

I'm sure there are plenty here who would love to see a Grainger design top the seacart. Maybe Bare Essentials with the new big rig will be the one.

Maybe someone will order a custom Raw 30, lighter with the float rudders and a 15.2m rig.

[paulnudd 3]

 

 

well the Raw 30 will be 28cm wider and have almost 1m more mast height .... think it will be a serious contender for the Seacart 30...

I guess you are talking about the new 'poverty pack' SeaCart 30. Pity they kept the same name. The real SeaCart 30 has a 15.2M rig and the Raw 30 will not be a serious contender with that.

Do you think you should hold off a little on the complete praise of the Seacart until it races a proper regatta with more wind? No question it is a weapon in the light with its huge main and upwind screecher, narrow beam and light weight. I think we need a bit more allround information before we say that a boat like a grainger tri will be no match...... It looked as if Indian Chief had its measure when the breeze was in? Any intel on this?

Yes they are pretty equal at this stage in conditions where the Chief can fly a hull but as soon as the Chief has 2 hulls in Morticia disappears into the distance.

Pretty simple really. What counts for light wind performance is getting that hull out. If you can be miles ahead in the light and equal in a blow you come out on top overall. Darren has been sailing the Chief for a few years now and Shuan has just started with Morticia. I certainly think a lighter Raw 30 with a bigger rig could be competitive.

On Monday evenings I get to see Morticia disappear over the horizon (almost).

Lock Crowther Memorial Ocean Race with plenty of breeze (morticia reefed upwind) Morticia and the Chief neck and neck until the wind eased and Morticia steadily moved ahead. On OMR it is a different story of course, as it should be, but I am talking about outright performance.

[SeaGul 83]

 

 

 

well the Raw 30 will be 28cm wider and have almost 1m more mast height .... think it will be a serious contender for the Seacart 30...

I guess you are talking about the new 'poverty pack' SeaCart 30. Pity they kept the same name. The real SeaCart 30 has a 15.2M rig and the Raw 30 will not be a serious contender with that.

Do you think you should hold off a little on the complete praise of the Seacart until it races a proper regatta with more wind? No question it is a weapon in the light with its huge main and upwind screecher, narrow beam and light weight. I think we need a bit more allround information before we say that a boat like a grainger tri will be no match...... It looked as if Indian Chief had its measure when the breeze was in? Any intel on this?

Yes they are pretty equal at this stage in conditions where the Chief can fly a hull but as soon as the Chief has 2 hulls in Morticia disappears into the distance.

Pretty simple really. What counts for light wind performance is getting that hull out. If you can be miles ahead in the light and equal in a blow you come out on top overall. Darren has been sailing the Chief for a few years now and Shuan has just started with Morticia. I certainly think a lighter Raw 30 with a bigger rig could be competitive.

On Monday evenings I get to see Morticia disappear over the horizon (almost).

Lock Crowther Memorial Ocean Race with plenty of breeze (morticia reefed upwind) Morticia and the Chief neck and neck until the wind eased and Morticia steadily moved ahead. On OMR it is a different story of course, as it should be, but I am talking about outright performance.

This is also a tri/cat issue I think , we always beat the cats during light conditions - but when the cats can lift a hull upwind they are in the perfect mode. The tris can also be trimmed more to get the most out of different conditions - just main hull (less wet surface for the weight) - tip it over - etc etc.

 

A Seacart can be sailed entirely on one hull upwind - and they will be hard to beat then... very slim hull...

[Tim Shuwalow 0]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

well the Raw 30 will be 28cm wider and have almost 1m more mast height .... think it will be a serious contender for the Seacart 30...

 

I guess you are talking about the new 'poverty pack' SeaCart 30. Pity they kept the same name. The real SeaCart 30 has a 15.2M rig and the Raw 30 will not be a serious contender with that.

Do you think you should hold off a little on the complete praise of the Seacart until it races a proper regatta with more wind? No question it is a weapon in the light with its huge main and upwind screecher, narrow beam and light weight. I think we need a bit more allround information before we say that a boat like a grainger tri will be no match...... It looked as if Indian Chief had its measure when the breeze was in? Any intel on this?

Yes they are pretty equal at this stage in conditions where the Chief can fly a hull but as soon as the Chief has 2 hulls in Morticia disappears into the distance.

Pretty simple really. What counts for light wind performance is getting that hull out. If you can be miles ahead in the light and equal in a blow you come out on top overall. Darren has been sailing the Chief for a few years now and Shuan has just started with Morticia. I certainly think a lighter Raw 30 with a bigger rig could be competitive.

On Monday evenings I get to see Morticia disappear over the horizon (almost).

Lock Crowther Memorial Ocean Race with plenty of breeze (morticia reefed upwind) Morticia and the Chief neck and neck until the wind eased and Morticia steadily moved ahead. On OMR it is a different story of course, as it should be, but I am talking about outright performance.

This is also a tri/cat issue I think , we always beat the cats during light conditions - but when the cats can lift a hull upwind they are in the perfect mode. The tris can also be trimmed more to get the most out of different conditions - just main hull (less wet surface for the weight) - tip it over - etc etc.

 

A Seacart can be sailed entirely on one hull upwind - and they will be hard to beat then... very slim hull...

Skimming the mainhull on the SeaCart will prove to be fastest upwind and if you're hitting 14 knots you're footing too much.

[wombat 12m 0]

First bit of video of the raw 30. Looks fast....

 

http://youtu.be/JhAqpkIW3VI

[wombat 12m 0]

Bit more video here.

 

What do you reckon it going to cost?

[Wess 2,722]

Actually curious to know more abou the boat so not a hater but good grief those videos wasted 6 minutes of my life.

[Indian Chief 34]

looks great, typical lovely TG styling and smart design. For me i'd want a 16 metre rig, foils and rudders in the floats, possibly a canting rig.......Tony can they do that?

[paulnudd 3]

looks great, typical lovely TG styling and smart design. For me i'd want a 16 metre rig, foils and rudders in the floats, possibly a canting rig.......Tony can they do that?

Would you want a Tri??

Imagine what cat you could have built for the cost of a Raw 30 yo your spec.

40' with 18m rig at about same weight?

You'd really have to be a 'Tri person' to go that way.

[Corley_ 4]

 

looks great, typical lovely TG styling and smart design. For me i'd want a 16 metre rig, foils and rudders in the floats, possibly a canting rig.......Tony can they do that?

Would you want a Tri??

Imagine what cat you could have built for the cost of a Raw 30 yo your spec.

40' with 18m rig at about same weight?

You'd really have to be a 'Tri person' to go that way.

A 30' trimaran though would be a trailerable proposition (would probably need a two piece mast though?) a 40' catamaran not so much.

[paulnudd 3]

 

 

 

looks great, typical lovely TG styling and smart design. For me i'd want a 16 metre rig, foils and rudders in the floats, possibly a canting rig.......Tony can they do that?

 

Would you want a Tri??

Imagine what cat you could have built for the cost of a Raw 30 yo your spec.

40' with 18m rig at about same weight?

You'd really have to be a 'Tri person' to go that way.

A 30' trimaran though would be a trailerable proposition (would probably need a two piece mast though?) a 40' catamaran not so much.

Depends what you mean by trailerable. If you subscribe to the Ian Farrier paradigm of trailerability, where you would keep your boat in your driveway or garage or backyard and every time you want to go for a sail you tow your boat to the water and rig up and launch and unfold and at the end of the sail you fold and load back on the trailer and lower the mast and tow the boat home again, then a 30' Tri would be a trailerable proposition and a 40' cat not so much so.

 

I will continue later.

[DennisY 2]

What is the data on mast height and sail area?

 

And the empty weight sail ready?

Bump ... ety ... bump ... ety ... bump! S/A, mast height pls!

[Corley_ 4]

From the Youtube video

 

Vital Stat's...
LOA: 9.2m (30' 2")
Beam: 6.884m (22' 7")
Beam folded: 2.50m (8' 2")
Draft (hull only): 0.464m (1' 6")
Mast length: 14m (41')
All up Weight: 1345 kg (2,965 lbs)
Hull: Infused Carbon Fibre
Mainsail: 37.8 sqm (406sqft)
Jib: 21.37 sqm (230sqft)
Code zero: 39.3 sqm (423sqft)
Asymmetric: 90 sqm

[DennisY 2]

Ta very much Corley!

[SeaGul 83]

That 1345kg seems hight - is that empty boat sail ready?

[paulnudd 3]

That 1345kg seems hight - is that empty boat sail ready?

Assume you mean light. Seems heavy to me. Morticia 9.14m Tri OMR weight 974kg +crew. Mad Max 9.95m cat OMR weight 1204kg. Malice 11.23m Cat OMR weight 1362kg. Raw to the Core 9.36m cat OMR weight 1100kg. Stir Fry 9.49m cat OMR weight 845kg. Turning Point 9.65 cat (cedar strip) OMR weight 1290kg. Two Tribes 9.26m cat OMR weight 1100kg.

[paulnudd 3]

 

 

 

 

looks great, typical lovely TG styling and smart design. For me i'd want a 16 metre rig, foils and rudders in the floats, possibly a canting rig.......Tony can they do that?

Would you want a Tri??

Imagine what cat you could have built for the cost of a Raw 30 yo your spec.

40' with 18m rig at about same weight?

You'd really have to be a 'Tri person' to go that way.

A 30' trimaran though would be a trailerable proposition (would probably need a two piece mast though?) a 40' catamaran not so much.

Depends what you mean by trailerable. If you subscribe to the Ian Farrier paradigm of trailerability, where you would keep your boat in your driveway or garage or backyard and every time you want to go for a sail you tow your boat to the water and rig up and launch and unfold and at the end of the sail you fold and load back on the trailer and lower the mast and tow the boat home again, then a 30' Tri would be a trailerable proposition and a 40' cat not so much so.

 

I will continue later.

However if you subscribe to another paradigm of trailerability, as do I and many others, where you keep your boat on a mooring, or in a marina berth or on a trolley on a hard stand. When you want to go for a sail you launch from the trolley, or motor out from the marina berth, or row out to the mooring, and hoist sails and go sailing. At the end of the sail you drop the sails and attach to the mooring or marina berth or back on the trolley. Sometimes I go for a half hour sail from the mooring. Under this paradigm the boat goes on the trailer once or twice a year to go cruising or to a regatta etc.

We have several boats being used under this paradigm of trailerability. Biggest currently is Malice at 36'. The hulls are narrow enough to trail side by side.

I am sure it would be possible to build a 2014 version of 'Flat Chat' with foam/carbon construction, carbon beams including an I beam for the main beam. 40' long (only 4' more than Malice) with hulls narrow enough for trailering, with a weight around 1300 kg and a 18m mast. I am sure it would cost less than a new seacart 30 ($330k?) and would be more than competitive even in light air. Question is, would it cost less than a Raw 30 with the options listed above.

[SeaGul 83]

 

That 1345kg seems hight - is that empty boat sail ready?

Assume you mean light. Seems heavy to me. Morticia 9.14m Tri OMR weight 974kg +crew. Mad Max 9.95m cat OMR weight 1204kg. Malice 11.23m Cat OMR weight 1362kg. Raw to the Core 9.36m cat OMR weight 1100kg. Stir Fry 9.49m cat OMR weight 845kg. Turning Point 9.65 cat (cedar strip) OMR weight 1290kg. Two Tribes 9.26m cat OMR weight 1100kg.

 

No I agree its heavy - if its empty sail ready - ref the Seacart 30 at below 1000kg . My T-35 is 1300kg at 10,60x8,2 with rig 17,5m. But maybe that number is with crew.

[paulnudd 3]

 

 

That 1345kg seems hight - is that empty boat sail ready?

Assume you mean light. Seems heavy to me. Morticia 9.14m Tri OMR weight 974kg +crew. Mad Max 9.95m cat OMR weight 1204kg. Malice 11.23m Cat OMR weight 1362kg. Raw to the Core 9.36m cat OMR weight 1100kg. Stir Fry 9.49m cat OMR weight 845kg. Turning Point 9.65 cat (cedar strip) OMR weight 1290kg. Two Tribes 9.26m cat OMR weight 1100kg.

 

No I agree its heavy - if its empty sail ready - ref the Seacart 30 at below 1000kg . My T-35 is 1300kg at 10,60x8,2 with rig 17,5m. But maybe that number is with crew.

Doubt it is with crew. I have never heard of a boat spec being given including crew. Usually they give a bare weight, without sails, or a complete sailing weight which would be close to the OMR weight.

[SeaGul 83]

 

 

 

That 1345kg seems hight - is that empty boat sail ready?

Assume you mean light. Seems heavy to me. Morticia 9.14m Tri OMR weight 974kg +crew. Mad Max 9.95m cat OMR weight 1204kg. Malice 11.23m Cat OMR weight 1362kg. Raw to the Core 9.36m cat OMR weight 1100kg. Stir Fry 9.49m cat OMR weight 845kg. Turning Point 9.65 cat (cedar strip) OMR weight 1290kg. Two Tribes 9.26m cat OMR weight 1100kg.

 

No I agree its heavy - if its empty sail ready - ref the Seacart 30 at below 1000kg . My T-35 is 1300kg at 10,60x8,2 with rig 17,5m. But maybe that number is with crew.

Doubt it is with crew. I have never heard of a boat spec being given including crew. Usually they give a bare weight, without sails, or a complete sailing weight which would be close to the OMR weight.

Sometimes these numbers comes from "designed deplacement " and I would believe that is with some crew.... and that the empty weight is around 1000kg - Tony G said it was a little heavier than the Seacart - so that would be something like that...

[tonygra 0]

Firstly I don't believe I said the boat would be a little heavier than the Seacart. I believe I said it would not be as light as the Seacart.

 

This boat was never intended to be a grand prix racer and comparisons with the Seacart 30 are not valid unless you point out some of the important differences. The Seacart 30 has tube beams. They are very light and practical and they work fine but they don't fold. I don't know the interior volume of the Seacart but I suspect it is considerably less than the RAW30. The Seacart 30 is purpose specific. You can't buy a less expensive version using the same hulls that offers up to six berths, a settee and enclosed head. And if the price suggested for the Seacart 30 on this forum is correct or even close to the money then the price difference is significantly higher than the weight difference.

 

The Airplay trimarans are designed as a production boat to fill a gap in the production boat market. That gap existed because the boats that employ the Farrier folding system until now have never taken advantage of modern multihull technology to optimise the performance of the boats. And that's exactly what I set out to do when Richard Ward approached me to design these boats in June 2011.

I believe Corsair have built and sold well over 1000 boats and growing. Boats like the Seacarts are great. But they will never be built and sold in those numbers.

Early in 2012 Richard took the decision not to tool up for the new boats and built the Cruz 950 instead. I had designed two models based on the same hull and cabin shapes, one with aft cabin, one with open cockpit. And there was talk of an all carbon version with the mast further aft and a bigger rig. This boat only ever got to concept stage when I was with Corsair. It's the boat we're discussing here now.

 

In May 2012 I was approached by Hudsons and I showed them the drawings for the production folding trimarans. We made an agreement to put them into production starting with the RAW30. I never expected the RAW30 to be a big seller, it was intended more as a flagship for the Airplay brand and specifically the Sport and Sports plus models. But we already have a second RAW30 ordered and under construction and I believe two more orders are close to being confirmed. I expect the Sport and Sport plus version will be sailing before the end of the year.

 

Regarding the question about twin rudders, taller mast, foils and canting rigs; The twin rudders are a certainty as an upgrade. We just have to make a small adjustment to the case and they bolt straight on the transoms. It is likely the RAW will offer different rig heights to allow for a variety of wind conditions around the world, but the other production boats will probably only offer two rig heights. Keep in mind that even at 14m and carbon construction the mast can be a handful to raise and lower if you are going to be trailering often. The other features are under development or under consideration. They have to be user friendly, reliable and reasonably priced. We have to consider all of these factors carefully.

 

Having said that, We have a hugely enthusiastic and skilled team on this project. The guys looking after the construction are from Hakes Marine who build offshore racing yachts from the world's leading designers, and are also the builders of the SL33. Scott McCook is looking after marketing and sales in Asia and possibly some other areas. Scott is very well known for his exploits in multihulls, high speed power boats and motorbikes. He's one of the top multihull sailors in Asia and is highly regarded amongst fellow competitors at events like the Kings Cup. Between myself, Scott, and the Hakes team we are committed to getting these boats to the absolute pinnacle in construction, design technology and support, within the intended market spectrum. And we will continue to pursue all avenues of development to keep the designs at the peak.

 

Tony G

 

 

[Corley_ 4]

 

 

 

 

 

looks great, typical lovely TG styling and smart design. For me i'd want a 16 metre rig, foils and rudders in the floats, possibly a canting rig.......Tony can they do that?

Would you want a Tri??

Imagine what cat you could have built for the cost of a Raw 30 yo your spec.

40' with 18m rig at about same weight?

You'd really have to be a 'Tri person' to go that way.

A 30' trimaran though would be a trailerable proposition (would probably need a two piece mast though?) a 40' catamaran not so much.

Depends what you mean by trailerable. If you subscribe to the Ian Farrier paradigm of trailerability, where you would keep your boat in your driveway or garage or backyard and every time you want to go for a sail you tow your boat to the water and rig up and launch and unfold and at the end of the sail you fold and load back on the trailer and lower the mast and tow the boat home again, then a 30' Tri would be a trailerable proposition and a 40' cat not so much so.

 

I will continue later.

However if you subscribe to another paradigm of trailerability, as do I and many others, where you keep your boat on a mooring, or in a marina berth or on a trolley on a hard stand. When you want to go for a sail you launch from the trolley, or motor out from the marina berth, or row out to the mooring, and hoist sails and go sailing. At the end of the sail you drop the sails and attach to the mooring or marina berth or back on the trolley. Sometimes I go for a half hour sail from the mooring. Under this paradigm the boat goes on the trailer once or twice a year to go cruising or to a regatta etc.

We have several boats being used under this paradigm of trailerability. Biggest currently is Malice at 36'. The hulls are narrow enough to trail side by side.

I am sure it would be possible to build a 2014 version of 'Flat Chat' with foam/carbon construction, carbon beams including an I beam for the main beam. 40' long (only 4' more than Malice) with hulls narrow enough for trailering, with a weight around 1300 kg and a 18m mast. I am sure it would cost less than a new seacart 30 ($330k?) and would be more than competitive even in light air. Question is, would it cost less than a Raw 30 with the options listed above.

 

No offence intended Nuddy but I don't agree with your paradigm of trailerability and the market hasn't either, how many production trailerable catamarans have been a commercial success? The Seawind 24 perhaps but it was more of an entry level cruiser than a race boat and has ceased production. What you are describing is demountable and transportable yes but not in my view practically trailerable. Check the trailering requirements in regards to maximum trailer size a 40' boat is very marginal even if theoretically possible.

 

A boat like a MTB920 trimaran for example is demountable and trailerable but not too many people could be bothered to do it on a regular basis. I don't think there has proved to be much of a market for a boat like the Nacra 36 either and it could hardly be considered a commercial success even if it is a fast boat and lightweight. Lots of people including me look at a boat like that and say "that's cool" but would not buy one.

[Indian Chief 34]

At 31 feet its great, i think a cat at 40 foot to trail might need some thought to be as easy as mine is to trail. It takes no more than 3 hours 15 mins to pack up and trail away, often a bit less (Mad Max does it quicker... i think they have done it in 2.5 hours) Our top speed on the QLD back roads behind the Rangie TD V8, 145 kmh and was as steady as an arrow in flight. Seems pretty trailable to me!!!

 

Nuddy, Flat Chat would have gone on a trailer ok as the hulls were narrower than the Chief. you just need a well engineered trailer to do the job properly. i'd do it with a 40 footer so long as it was under 3.5 tons all up. my trailer is 1.2 tons and boat 1.5 total 2.7 tons

 

 

[paulnudd 3]

Firstly I don't believe I said the boat would be a little heavier than the Seacart. I believe I said it would not be as light as the Seacart.

 

This boat was never intended to be a grand prix racer and comparisons with the Seacart 30 are not valid unless you point out some of the important differences. The Seacart 30 has tube beams. They are very light and practical and they work fine but they don't fold. I don't know the interior volume of the Seacart but I suspect it is considerably less than the RAW30. The Seacart 30 is purpose specific. You can't buy a less expensive version using the same hulls that offers up to six berths, a settee and enclosed head. And if the price suggested for the Seacart 30 on this forum is correct or even close to the money then the price difference is significantly higher than the weight difference.

 

The Airplay trimarans are designed as a production boat to fill a gap in the production boat market. That gap existed because the boats that employ the Farrier folding system until now have never taken advantage of modern multihull technology to optimise the performance of the boats. And that's exactly what I set out to do when Richard Ward approached me to design these boats in June 2011.

I believe Corsair have built and sold well over 1000 boats and growing. Boats like the Seacarts are great. But they will never be built and sold in those numbers.

Early in 2012 Richard took the decision not to tool up for the new boats and built the Cruz 950 instead. I had designed two models based on the same hull and cabin shapes, one with aft cabin, one with open cockpit. And there was talk of an all carbon version with the mast further aft and a bigger rig. This boat only ever got to concept stage when I was with Corsair. It's the boat we're discussing here now.

 

In May 2012 I was approached by Hudsons and I showed them the drawings for the production folding trimarans. We made an agreement to put them into production starting with the RAW30. I never expected the RAW30 to be a big seller, it was intended more as a flagship for the Airplay brand and specifically the Sport and Sports plus models. But we already have a second RAW30 ordered and under construction and I believe two more orders are close to being confirmed. I expect the Sport and Sport plus version will be sailing before the end of the year.

 

Regarding the question about twin rudders, taller mast, foils and canting rigs; The twin rudders are a certainty as an upgrade. We just have to make a small adjustment to the case and they bolt straight on the transoms. It is likely the RAW will offer different rig heights to allow for a variety of wind conditions around the world, but the other production boats will probably only offer two rig heights. Keep in mind that even at 14m and carbon construction the mast can be a handful to raise and lower if you are going to be trailering often. The other features are under development or under consideration. They have to be user friendly, reliable and reasonably priced. We have to consider all of these factors carefully.

 

Having said that, We have a hugely enthusiastic and skilled team on this project. The guys looking after the construction are from Hakes Marine who build offshore racing yachts from the world's leading designers, and are also the builders of the SL33. Scott McCook is looking after marketing and sales in Asia and possibly some other areas. Scott is very well known for his exploits in multihulls, high speed power boats and motorbikes. He's one of the top multihull sailors in Asia and is highly regarded amongst fellow competitors at events like the Kings Cup. Between myself, Scott, and the Hakes team we are committed to getting these boats to the absolute pinnacle in construction, design technology and support, within the intended market spectrum. And we will continue to pursue all avenues of development to keep the designs at the peak.

 

Tony G

 

Thanks Tony

Excellent clarification. I had no idea you had dealings with Richard. It is probably good that he did not go ahead with your designs, from everyone's point of view.

Now that I understand you are competing with Corsair I see the picture entirely differently. I hope you have a good agent to distribute in Aust. If you do I think the Airplay and Raw will have great success. With regard to racing, I imagine the Raw will be in div 1 and the airplay(s) will be highly competitive in Div 2.

Good to see current designs getting a run.

I wish you all success and sorry for hijacking your thread.

[SeaGul 83]

Really interesting to discuss a new design and have the actual designer to tell the real story behind the design.

 

Coming from north europa, where we have a lot other very good designers around, I always had a crush on some of the designs from down under... starting with Crowther , and in my view Grainger is the one to continue the design work that has these beautiful hull-lines in their designs that give a special look that will be fast and seaworthy.

 

The designs from europa dont often has that special character that the above designers have.

[cazza 3]

Thanks for the info Tony. The boat looks great, looking forward to seeing one or even better, several in aus in the near future.

 

For the record, I got an estimate from Ocean Lake Marine for an SC30 (as 2nd hand they can be hard to come by) in mid 2012 for 2.5M SEK which on todays rate is A$405k ex Sweden. You wouldn't get much change from A$500k after tax and shipping. They are great boats but with that price tag and an 8yo design, I think it is unlikely that any more will be built.

[Steveromagnino 2]

I don't often look too much at Multihulls, but this is sex on water. Lovely.

[loyd 0]

Thanks for the info Tony. The boat looks great, looking forward to seeing one or even better, several in aus in the near future.

 

For the record, I got an estimate from Ocean Lake Marine for an SC30 (as 2nd hand they can be hard to come by) in mid 2012 for 2.5M SEK which on todays rate is A$405k ex Sweden. You wouldn't get much change from A$500k after tax and shipping. They are great boats but with that price tag and an 8yo design, I think it is unlikely that any more will be built.

Take this http://www.seacart30.dk/SeaCart30/Til_salg.html for 200000.- AUSD

 

LOYD

[Tucky 35]

Thanks Tony, really appreciate the information. Best of luck.

[Speng 8]

Thanks for the info Tony. The boat looks great, looking forward to seeing one or even better, several in aus in the near future.

 

For the record, I got an estimate from Ocean Lake Marine for an SC30 (as 2nd hand they can be hard to come by) in mid 2012 for 2.5M SEK which on todays rate is A$405k ex Sweden. You wouldn't get much change from A$500k after tax and shipping. They are great boats but with that price tag and an 8yo design, I think it is unlikely that any more will be built.

 

 

I don't think it's the design that's a problem - despite being 8 years old I don't think you can find faster production boat for the mission i.e. Offshore capable, 3-4 crew racer. There are a lot of newer day racers which are presumably but they're inshore racers. The lack or end of sales is just a matter of the stupendous initial cost... That's why nobody else is jumping on that bandwagon including OceanLake themselves who decided to followup with an inshore racer (SC26) instead.

[wombat 12m 0]

Tony,

Do you have any pictures of the interior. I'm also interested in any pricing you've worked out(just ball park figures).

 

Matt

[triple trouble 6]

I will be very interesting in seeing more of this boat especially video in more than 5 or 6 knots of breeze. I'm leaving for London later today and will be looking into several smaller tri's. Something 30ish is very attractive as well.

[paulnudd 3]

 

Thanks for the info Tony. The boat looks great, looking forward to seeing one or even better, several in aus in the near future.

 

For the record, I got an estimate from Ocean Lake Marine for an SC30 (as 2nd hand they can be hard to come by) in mid 2012 for 2.5M SEK which on todays rate is A$405k ex Sweden. You wouldn't get much change from A$500k after tax and shipping. They are great boats but with that price tag and an 8yo design, I think it is unlikely that any more will be built.

 

I don't think it's the design that's a problem - despite being 8 years old I don't think you can find faster production boat for the mission i.e. Offshore capable, 3-4 crew racer. There are a lot of newer day racers which are presumably but they're inshore racers. The lack or end of sales is just a matter of the stupendous initial cost... That's why nobody else is jumping on that bandwagon including OceanLake themselves who decided to followup with an inshore racer (SC26) instead.

And with a detuned folding cheaper version of the 30. The GP version is made by Marstrom. Do they also make the folding version and the 26?

[Multihauler 16]

Do they also make the folding version and the 26?

The 26 has been a folder since inception. However it uses a single-strut folding system, not a Farrier double-strut type. Thus no folding and unfolding on the water. Boat is to be unfolded on the trailer and then launched in it's full width. Not very real-world ramp and hoist friendly.

 

Cheers!!!

 

-MH

[paulnudd 3]

 

Do they (Marstrom) also make the folding version and the 26?

The 26 has been a folder since inception. However it uses a single-strut folding system, not a Farrier double-strut type. Thus no folding and unfolding on the water. Boat is to be unfolded on the trailer and then launched in it's full width. Not very real-world ramp and hoist friendly.

 

Cheers!!!

 

-MH

[Corley_ 4]

More photos of the boat sailing and under construction have been posted on the Airplay RAW30 facebook page.

 

https://www.facebook.com/airplaytrimaran

 

 

 

 

[paulnudd 3]

 

 

Do they (Marstrom) also make the folding version of the 30 and the 26?

The 26 has been a folder since inception. However it uses a single-strut folding system, not a Farrier double-strut type. Thus no folding and unfolding on the water. Boat is to be unfolded on the trailer and then launched in it's full width. Not very real-world ramp and hoist friendly.

 

Cheers!!!

 

-MH

[bokaj 0]

The 26 is built in Thailand and it is not a carbon boat. The 26 has a supreme website with a lot of information. http://www,Seacar26.com/

 

Cheers!

PFH

[paulnudd 3]

Thanks bokaj. Do you know anything about the folding Seacart 30, is it carbon, is it made by Marstrom?

[bokaj 0]

Marstrom built according to their website 15 Seacart 30. to my knowledge all carbon and not folding. The folding seacart is not a carbon boat and is about 400 kgs heavier, with a shorter mast and daggerboard.

I do think that there has been produced any by Marstrom or elsewhere.

 

Cheers

 

PFH

[SeaGul 83]

The Marstrom Seacarts 30 are not folding but can be dismantled …..rather easy I think for transport.

[svendson 4]

Jeebus, less Seacart and more Grainger in the Grainer Tri thread! I don't care about an extreme demountable trimaran that was launched and died years ago and that I will never consider owning. When I come to this thread I want to read about the first production folding tri I have seen that has high prismatic floats and the mast at around 50% LOA, and which I just may own one day if my wallet makes it that far.

 

So on topic - according to the Airplay FB website, rather interestingly this is a design originally commissioned by Corsair that they then turned their back on in favor what seems to have been a lower capital investment in the Cruze. Which I am actually quite grateful for. I like the vast majority of the features of the Airplay design but as an owner of a recent model Corsair I find their production quality unnacceptable. Not structurally unsound (so far anyways), but I would never consider buying another Corsair product. Hopefully with Hudson behind it, the production quality will be solid. Unfortunately there is only one photo available without paint or finishing, hopefully they will upload some more with close-up detail if the production is really as good as they claim.

 

Has anyone heard any info on pricing? I reckon that is, as usual, going to be the key to the success/failure of these boats.

[paulnudd 3]

Jeebus, less Seacart and more Grainger in the Grainer Tri thread! I don't care about an extreme demountable trimaran that was launched and died years ago and that I will never consider owning. When I come to this thread I want to read about the first production folding tri I have seen that has high prismatic floats and the mast at around 50% LOA, and which I just may own one day if my wallet makes it that far.

 

So on topic - according to the Airplay FB website, rather interestingly this is a design originally commissioned by Corsair that they then turned their back on in favor what seems to have been a lower capital investment in the Cruze. Which I am actually quite grateful for. I like the vast majority of the features of the Airplay design but as an owner of a recent model Corsair I find their production quality unnacceptable. Not structurally unsound (so far anyways), but I would never consider buying another Corsair product. Hopefully with Hudson behind it, the production quality will be solid. Unfortunately there is only one photo available without paint or finishing, hopefully they will upload some more with close-up detail if the production is really as good as they claim.

 

Has anyone heard any info on pricing? I reckon that is, as usual, going to be the key to the success/failure of these boats.

This is sailing anarchy - get over it.

There Seacart is the benchmark by which any Tri around this size will be measured and Marstrom is the benchmark for construction quality. There is a new folding Seacart 30 which has a shorter rig, not carbon and much cheaper than the original. Might be a direct competitor to the Raw.

Yes of course Corsair would go with a facelift and detuned of their existing successful product and I agree about the quality there, however I would consider a corsair product if looking for a Tri, not a new one though as they are such good value second hand.

Don't expect pics of construction detail, you only get that from Farrier.

[zzarganas 3]

The topic is about raw 30 i think......so lets talk about this. IMHO this is a pretty 30'' folding trimaran who looks fast either.

P.S. The paint job + hull graphics are the best in the market.

[paulnudd 3]

The topic is about raw 30 i think......so lets talk about this. IMHO this is a pretty 30'' folding trimaran who looks fast either.

P.S. The paint job + hull graphics are the best in the market.

This is sailing anarchy. We talk about whatever we like wherever we like. If you want orderly stick to topic no criticism or comparisons you are in the wrong place.

Start a raw 30 fan club if you like.

[RedTuna 44]

One more to put on ignore.

 

Hey, are there any RAW 30 videos without all the stills?

[zzarganas 3]

 

The topic is about raw 30 i think......so lets talk about this. IMHO this is a pretty 30'' folding trimaran who looks fast either.

P.S. The paint job + hull graphics are the best in the market.

This is sailing anarchy. We talk about whatever we like wherever we like. If you want orderly stick to topic no criticism or comparisons you are in the wrong place.

Start a raw 30 fan club if you like.

a true gentleman......nice behavior

[SeaGul 83]

 

 

The topic is about raw 30 i think......so lets talk about this. IMHO this is a pretty 30'' folding trimaran who looks fast either.

P.S. The paint job + hull graphics are the best in the market.

This is sailing anarchy. We talk about whatever we like wherever we like. If you want orderly stick to topic no criticism or comparisons you are in the wrong place.

Start a raw 30 fan club if you like.

a true gentleman......nice behavior

 

Well - to keep a tread alive it has to allow some degree of roaming around…. and its maybe not useful to make a new tread for every thought thats comes into mind...

 

And its better to just make a new post on topic than to start an argument about off/on topic...

[svendson 4]

 

The topic is about raw 30 i think......so lets talk about this. IMHO this is a pretty 30'' folding trimaran who looks fast either.

P.S. The paint job + hull graphics are the best in the market.

This is sailing anarchy. We talk about whatever we like wherever we like. If you want orderly stick to topic no criticism or comparisons you are in the wrong place.

Start a raw 30 fan club if you like.

 

I guess you must rein yourself in a fair bit on other online groups and let it all out here because you are being a wee bit of tosser. You can, as you say, do as you will here in SA. So can everyone else. Criticising others for posting whatever they want (such as requests to stay on topic) in the midst of assesrting your right to post whatever you want is about the most embarassing fit of hypocritical nonsense I've seen anyone suffer in quite some time. We get to make the bed we lay in here - if I want flame wars and shit fights I can go to AC anarchy. I come here to find info on a what I think is a cool boat about which info is otherwise scarce on the interwebs, and discuss it. Now, you can continue the shit fight that you have singlehandedly started and ensure that Tony and anyone else associated with this project never comes back here again, just like Doug Lord and Chris O and so many others have done to so many threads before. As you have established, you are totally free to do that. Or you can just chill out, take my post as the tongue in cheek attempt to pull the thread back on topic it was meant to be, and hopefully some more interesting tidbits will continue to drop. You could even make one of those constructive contributions to the discussion at hand I've seen you make elsewhere.

[lasersail2 0]

Got the Raw 30 launched Saturday here in Singapore, sailed her yesterday. I'm in town for my graduate work, so offered to help Scott and Alice get her on the water.

 

My impressions- very nicely built- everything is carbon, even the companionway ladder! The sails are also very nice, although we need a stiffer top batten for the main. Didn't get to use the screecher yesterday, but the top down furler on the kite is very nice. Layout was straightforward, although I might not have chosen self tailing winches for the kite sheet, just from a safety perspective. The Marstrom mast and boom are gorgeous.

 

We had 12-15 knots of breeze when we headed out, sailed from Raffles Marina upwind to Johor Bahru, then back. Upwind the boat tacks easily, and we saw 12-13 knots of boat speed. Setting the kite is simple with the top down furling, and gybing is easy as long as the trimmers time the ease/trim correctly, just like any big assymetric. I thing we saw around 17-19 knots downwind, but we were using a gps app on a tablet for speed, and that was with current. Got to helm for a while both up and down, and the helm is very light upwind. Downwind she accelerates easily and can load up quick, so you just need to stay ahead of her.

 

Overall, very sweet ride.

[paulnudd 3]

Got the Raw 30 launched Saturday here in Singapore, sailed her yesterday. I'm in town for my graduate work, so offered to help Scott and Alice get her on the water.

 

My impressions- very nicely built- everything is carbon, even the companionway ladder! The sails are also very nice, although we need a stiffer top batten for the main. Didn't get to use the screecher yesterday, but the top down furler on the kite is very nice. Layout was straightforward, although I might not have chosen self tailing winches for the kite sheet, just from a safety perspective. The Marstrom mast and boom are gorgeous.

 

We had 12-15 knots of breeze when we headed out, sailed from Raffles Marina upwind to Johor Bahru, then back. Upwind the boat tacks easily, and we saw 12-13 knots of boat speed. Setting the kite is simple with the top down furling, and gybing is easy as long as the trimmers time the ease/trim correctly, just like any big assymetric. I thing we saw around 17-19 knots downwind, but we were using a gps app on a tablet for speed, and that was with current. Got to helm for a while both up and down, and the helm is very light upwind. Downwind she accelerates easily and can load up quick, so you just need to stay ahead of her.

 

Overall, very sweet ride.

Excellent comprehensive report. Thanks. Does anyone use a paddle wheel speed transducer these days? Only useful to give a comparison with SOG to determine current. Is there another way to achieve that?

[trispirit 74]

Got the Raw 30 launched Saturday here in Singapore, sailed her yesterday. I'm in town for my graduate work, so offered to help Scott and Alice get her on the water.

 

My impressions- very nicely built- everything is carbon, even the companionway ladder! The sails are also very nice, although we need a stiffer top batten for the main. Didn't get to use the screecher yesterday, but the top down furler on the kite is very nice. Layout was straightforward, although I might not have chosen self tailing winches for the kite sheet, just from a safety perspective. The Marstrom mast and boom are gorgeous.

 

We had 12-15 knots of breeze when we headed out, sailed from Raffles Marina upwind to Johor Bahru, then back. Upwind the boat tacks easily, and we saw 12-13 knots of boat speed. Setting the kite is simple with the top down furling, and gybing is easy as long as the trimmers time the ease/trim correctly, just like any big assymetric. I thing we saw around 17-19 knots downwind, but we were using a gps app on a tablet for speed, and that was with current. Got to helm for a while both up and down, and the helm is very light upwind. Downwind she accelerates easily and can load up quick, so you just need to stay ahead of her.

 

Overall, very sweet ride.

 

Who says you need to use the self tailer??

[lasersail2 0]

 

Got the Raw 30 launched Saturday here in Singapore, sailed her yesterday. I'm in town for my graduate work, so offered to help Scott and Alice get her on the water.

 

My impressions- very nicely built- everything is carbon, even the companionway ladder! The sails are also very nice, although we need a stiffer top batten for the main. Didn't get to use the screecher yesterday, but the top down furler on the kite is very nice. Layout was straightforward, although I might not have chosen self tailing winches for the kite sheet, just from a safety perspective. The Marstrom mast and boom are gorgeous.

 

We had 12-15 knots of breeze when we headed out, sailed from Raffles Marina upwind to Johor Bahru, then back. Upwind the boat tacks easily, and we saw 12-13 knots of boat speed. Setting the kite is simple with the top down furling, and gybing is easy as long as the trimmers time the ease/trim correctly, just like any big assymetric. I thing we saw around 17-19 knots downwind, but we were using a gps app on a tablet for speed, and that was with current. Got to helm for a while both up and down, and the helm is very light upwind. Downwind she accelerates easily and can load up quick, so you just need to stay ahead of her.

 

Overall, very sweet ride.

 

Who says you need to use the self tailer??

 

You absolutely don't have to, and for distance or short handed racing having the option is great. Just my personal preference, not a criticism of the boat.

[paulnudd 3]

 

 

Got the Raw 30 launched Saturday here in Singapore, sailed her yesterday. I'm in town for my graduate work, so offered to help Scott and Alice get her on the water.

 

My impressions- very nicely built- everything is carbon, even the companionway ladder! The sails are also very nice, although we need a stiffer top batten for the main. Didn't get to use the screecher yesterday, but the top down furler on the kite is very nice. Layout was straightforward, although I might not have chosen self tailing winches for the kite sheet, just from a safety perspective. The Marstrom mast and boom are gorgeous.

 

We had 12-15 knots of breeze when we headed out, sailed from Raffles Marina upwind to Johor Bahru, then back. Upwind the boat tacks easily, and we saw 12-13 knots of boat speed. Setting the kite is simple with the top down furling, and gybing is easy as long as the trimmers time the ease/trim correctly, just like any big assymetric. I thing we saw around 17-19 knots downwind, but we were using a gps app on a tablet for speed, and that was with current. Got to helm for a while both up and down, and the helm is very light upwind. Downwind she accelerates easily and can load up quick, so you just need to stay ahead of her.

 

Overall, very sweet ride.

 

Who says you need to use the self tailer??

 

You absolutely don't have to, and for distance or short handed racing having the option is great. Just my personal preference, not a criticism of the boat.

Lock Crowther would never have a self tailer on his own boat. I wouldn't have a winch without a self tailer. Opinions vary.

[cynophobe 53]

Well done on winning their first regatta.

[paulnudd 3]

Well done on winning their first regatta.

+1

[dananeecha 0]

What's the official handicap for the raw 30 ?

[cynophobe 53]

If you look at the result sheet the OMR is .970 by comparison at the last Aussi nationals the Seacart rated at 1.002 and the all carbon f32 was .980.

[trispirit 74]

If you look at the result sheet the OMR is .970 by comparison at the last Aussi nationals the Seacart rated at 1.002 and the all carbon f32 was .980.

 

Not a bad rating. It'll be interesting once one gets into Oz and we see it up against the Seacart and others.

[paulnudd 3]

 

If you look at the result sheet the OMR is .970 by comparison at the last Aussi nationals the Seacart rated at 1.002 and the all carbon f32 was .980.

 

Not a bad rating. It'll be interesting once one gets into Oz and we see it up against the Seacart and others.

I would expect it to sail to that rating. The spec's are well short of the Seacart and Tony said he was not trying to compete with the seacart on performance, rather to be a better racing/cruising compromise.

[oomummado 0]

 

If you look at the result sheet the OMR is .970 by comparison at the last Aussi nationals the Seacart rated at 1.002 and the all carbon f32 was .980.

 

Not a bad rating. It'll be interesting once one gets into Oz and we see it up against the Seacart and others.

 

 

 

If you look at the result sheet the OMR is .970 by comparison at the last Aussi nationals the Seacart rated at 1.002 and the all carbon f32 was .980.

 

Not a bad rating. It'll be interesting once one gets into Oz and we see it up against the Seacart and others.

I would expect it to sail to that rating. The spec's are well short of the Seacart and Tony said he was not trying to compete with the seacart on performance, rather to be a better racing/cruising compromise.

Must be around 1600kg I would suspect for that rating. Puts it 300kg heavier than Bare Essentials and around 200kg lighter than Trilogy. Looks more like a Trilogy development than the Essential 8. Large amount of rocker aft in the main hull and wide and flat the same as Trilogy.

[paulnudd 3]

Essential 8 was the replacement for 075. Trilogy a custom cruiser/racer design for Tony Considine. Airplay was designed to replace the Farrier designed Corsair 31.

I would expect it to be the latest cruiser/racer thinking from Tony Grainger, rather than racer/cruiser, as explained by Tony below:

 

Firstly I don't believe I said the boat would be a little heavier than the Seacart. I believe I said it would not be as light as the Seacart.

 

This boat was never intended to be a grand prix racer and comparisons with the Seacart 30 are not valid unless you point out some of the important differences. The Seacart 30 has tube beams. They are very light and practical and they work fine but they don't fold. I don't know the interior volume of the Seacart but I suspect it is considerably less than the RAW30. The Seacart 30 is purpose specific. You can't buy a less expensive version using the same hulls that offers up to six berths, a settee and enclosed head. And if the price suggested for the Seacart 30 on this forum is correct or even close to the money then the price difference is significantly higher than the weight difference.

 

The Airplay trimarans are designed as a production boat to fill a gap in the production boat market. That gap existed because the boats that employ the Farrier folding system until now have never taken advantage of modern multihull technology to optimise the performance of the boats. And that's exactly what I set out to do when Richard Ward approached me to design these boats in June 2011.

I believe Corsair have built and sold well over 1000 boats and growing. Boats like the Seacarts are great. But they will never be built and sold in those numbers.

Early in 2012 Richard took the decision not to tool up for the new boats and built the Cruz 950 instead. I had designed two models based on the same hull and cabin shapes, one with aft cabin, one with open cockpit. And there was talk of an all carbon version with the mast further aft and a bigger rig. This boat only ever got to concept stage when I was with Corsair. It's the boat we're discussing here now.

 

In May 2012 I was approached by Hudsons and I showed them the drawings for the production folding trimarans. We made an agreement to put them into production starting with the RAW30. I never expected the RAW30 to be a big seller, it was intended more as a flagship for the Airplay brand and specifically the Sport and Sports plus models. But we already have a second RAW30 ordered and under construction and I believe two more orders are close to being confirmed. I expect the Sport and Sport plus version will be sailing before the end of the year.

 

Regarding the question about twin rudders, taller mast, foils and canting rigs; The twin rudders are a certainty as an upgrade. We just have to make a small adjustment to the case and they bolt straight on the transoms. It is likely the RAW will offer different rig heights to allow for a variety of wind conditions around the world, but the other production boats will probably only offer two rig heights. Keep in mind that even at 14m and carbon construction the mast can be a handful to raise and lower if you are going to be trailering often. The other features are under development or under consideration. They have to be user friendly, reliable and reasonably priced. We have to consider all of these factors carefully.

 

Having said that, We have a hugely enthusiastic and skilled team on this project. The guys looking after the construction are from Hakes Marine who build offshore racing yachts from the world's leading designers, and are also the builders of the SL33. Scott McCook is looking after marketing and sales in Asia and possibly some other areas. Scott is very well known for his exploits in multihulls, high speed power boats and motorbikes. He's one of the top multihull sailors in Asia and is highly regarded amongst fellow competitors at events like the Kings Cup. Between myself, Scott, and the Hakes team we are committed to getting these boats to the absolute pinnacle in construction, design technology and support, within the intended market spectrum. And we will continue to pursue all avenues of development to keep the designs at the peak.

 

Tony G

 

Thanks Tony

Excellent clarification. I had no idea you had dealings with Richard. It is probably good that he did not go ahead with your designs, from everyone's point of view.

Now that I understand you are competing with Corsair I see the picture entirely differently. I hope you have a good agent to distribute in Aust. If you do I think the Airplay and Raw will have great success. With regard to racing, I imagine the Raw will be in div 1 and the airplay(s) will be highly competitive in Div 2.

Good to see current designs getting a run.

I wish you all success and sorry for hijacking your thread.

[cynophobe 53]

I find it quite amusing that Tonys version of a cruising boat end up on the same numbers as Ians race boat

[THOR 39]

lol .... Ian is a little conservative about that racing stuff, and I agree with him on that one... Its nice to let mono sailors who never been on a multi being driver and not worry every second about flippin. There are insurance concerns for the folks who just want to cruise if the racer version breaks all the time .. and and and ....

 

Interesting that Tony worked for Corsair ... and those guys didnt go for it ..instead cranking up that Cruze 950 which in my opinion is ....... well.. lets be civilized here and dont deraill the thread .... But if you physically cannot reach the traveller sheets and they need to be pulled around and up ? or whatever around the seats ..than something is wrong .. ]

Bad mistake for Corsair that they did not go with Tony

 

Thor

[paulnudd 3]

Probably good for us all that Corsair stuck with the f/c31 and just did a bit of a upgrade?

I think the Raw 30 would have been very different if it was built by Corsair.

This way we have more diversity in the market.