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Do people replace the pad eyes on the amas, where shrouds attach? Is it a known failure point?

We have a 2012 yellow Weta, which we got 2nd hand in a "barn find" 3 years ago. From 2012 to 2017 it was probably sailed once or twice. 2017 onwards, it definitely gets an outing a week in the salty, sunny Biscayne Bay. Everything from light winds and sandbar picnics to 30kt. 

About a year ago, a screw on the starboard shroud pad eye was a bit loose, I fiddled with it and found that the backing plate had a bit of rust and generally looked dodgy. Local Weta distributor said the backing plate wasn't a part you could buy. By the time I had extracted the backing plate, putting it back in place wasn't easy so I ended up with the "upside down screws" fix in place.

Last weekend, the Weta dismasted sailing in 10-12kt. The bolts holding the pad eye on port are cut cleanly at deck level, with signs of rust.

The original, factory fasteners have failed at 3 years of sailing. Looking at the weta wiki and other online resources, I don't see anything saying -- in salty environments, check and replace every X years... No other parts of the boat show significant corrosion...

I am a bit miffed. Is this a known issue? Am I unlucky? Is Florida saltier than the Bay of Islands?

My plan now is to build something similar to the original backing plates, with some scraps of G10, drill, dremel, G/Flex...

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Hi guys,newbie here but a long time monohull sailor/ racer. I have been away from the sailing scene for a little while whilst I finished raising my boy and further advanced my career. I bore you with

I've sailed mine in big breeze / lumpy seas, and it never went over when flying the screecher. The big sail lifts the bows (and in absolutely insane conditions 25+) and miraculously the boat digs in -

New Weta model Chris Kitchen and his family came up with this new Weta model.  Brought a smile to my face.

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39 minutes ago, martin 'hoff said:

Do people replace the pad eyes on the amas, where shrouds attach? Is it a known failure point?

We have a 2012 yellow Weta, which we got 2nd hand in a "barn find" 3 years ago. From 2012 to 2017 it was probably sailed once or twice. 2017 onwards, it definitely gets an outing a week in the salty, sunny Biscayne Bay. Everything from light winds and sandbar picnics to 30kt. 

About a year ago, a screw on the starboard shroud pad eye was a bit loose, I fiddled with it and found that the backing plate had a bit of rust and generally looked dodgy. Local Weta distributor said the backing plate wasn't a part you could buy. By the time I had extracted the backing plate, putting it back in place wasn't easy so I ended up with the "upside down screws" fix in place.

Last weekend, the Weta dismasted sailing in 10-12kt. The bolts holding the pad eye on port are cut cleanly at deck level, with signs of rust.

The original, factory fasteners have failed at 3 years of sailing. Looking at the weta wiki and other online resources, I don't see anything saying -- in salty environments, check and replace every X years... No other parts of the boat show significant corrosion...

I am a bit miffed. Is this a known issue? Am I unlucky? Is Florida saltier than the Bay of Islands?

My plan now is to build something similar to the original backing plates, with some scraps of G10, drill, dremel, G/Flex...

Most probably just unlucky.  Stress crevice corrosion (tensioned stainless fastener).  Happens in stainless shrouds at the swage, as well.  Victim of 5 years of no maintenance.  

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Building replacement backing plates for shroud pad eyes.

Get...

  • Scrap G10 plate, about 1cm thick (substitute with a Carbon Fiber plate - cheap in letter size -  from Amazon or similar - 2mm thick is more than enough)
  • 316 SS machine screws (phillips pan head, #10-24 1 1/5 inch) and matching nuts
  • Ronstan/harken pad eyes  1-3/4 inch between holes
  • Thickened G/Flex, disposable chopsticks, wax (ie a candle)
  • Drill + bits, dremel + bits, clamps

Go:

  • Clamp the plate on working bench
  • Mark the plate, drill 4 holes, slightly oversize
  • With the "barrel" sanding stone make an indent on the plate for the nut to sit in -- bonded into the indent, the nut will handle torsion better. If your plate is thin, keep the indent shallow.
  • With the cone sanding stone, sand the other side of the openings so screw insertion once in the ama is easier.
  • Wax the screw threads
  • Semi-assemble the pad eyes, screws, nuts onto the plate, with the nuts in their indents -- do this inverted, with the screws barely screwed into the nuts
  • Ensure the nuts and screws sit well, and are straight
  • Mix a small amount of G/Flex, put a dab all around the nut, in the gaps between the nut and the indent walls -- clean up any excess that might get into the nut threads (I used paper, wish I had a q-tip with thinner at hand). Excess on the plate doesn't matter.
  • Once the G/Flex has set, remove screws, dremel with plastic cutting disc to cut each piece

https://photos.app.goo.gl/G2aD6uUvcfzZ1PDWA

To install it, I'm going to use a similar technique as for the "inverted screws" approach -- I'll prepare headless threaded rods with a fishing line, drop them through the holes, get them out the back, screw them onto the plate, pull them out, and then... drum roll, clamp one threaded rod under some upwards pressure, and unscrew the other one and put the screw in place. If all goes well in that sleigh of hand, we'll be in business. 

It's either that, or the chainsaw :-/

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The only issue I can perceive is galvanic  corrosion between your backing plate and the SS Bolts. I have already had the tiller extension come off in a race because one of the retaining screws had corroded through where it touched the wall of the carbon tiller tube (old boat - new ones use bolts).

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1 hour ago, Pewit said:

The only issue I can perceive is galvanic  corrosion between your backing plate and the SS Bolts. I have already had the tiller extension come off in a race because one of the retaining screws had corroded through where it touched the wall of the carbon tiller tube (old boat - new ones use bolts).

Yeah. I thought the same and looked it up. G10 is glass, not CF, so I think that means no/negligible galvanic corrosion.

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On 9/18/2020 at 3:04 PM, martin 'hoff said:

Building replacement backing plates for shroud pad eyes.

Get...

  • Scrap G10 plate, about 1cm thick (substitute with a Carbon Fiber plate - cheap in letter size -  from Amazon or similar - 2mm thick is more than enough)
  • 316 SS machine screws (phillips pan head, #10-24 1 1/5 inch) and matching nuts
  • Ronstan/harken pad eyes  1-3/4 inch between holes
  • Thickened G/Flex, disposable chopsticks, wax (ie a candle)
  • Drill + bits, dremel + bits, clamps

Go:

  • Clamp the plate on working bench
  • Mark the plate, drill 4 holes, slightly oversize
  • With the "barrel" sanding stone make an indent on the plate for the nut to sit in -- bonded into the indent, the nut will handle torsion better. If your plate is thin, keep the indent shallow.
  • With the cone sanding stone, sand the other side of the openings so screw insertion once in the ama is easier.
  • Wax the screw threads
  • Semi-assemble the pad eyes, screws, nuts onto the plate, with the nuts in their indents -- do this inverted, with the screws barely screwed into the nuts
  • Ensure the nuts and screws sit well, and are straight
  • Mix a small amount of G/Flex, put a dab all around the nut, in the gaps between the nut and the indent walls -- clean up any excess that might get into the nut threads (I used paper, wish I had a q-tip with thinner at hand). Excess on the plate doesn't matter.
  • Once the G/Flex has set, remove screws, dremel with plastic cutting disc to cut each piece

https://photos.app.goo.gl/G2aD6uUvcfzZ1PDWA

To install it, I'm going to use a similar technique as for the "inverted screws" approach -- I'll prepare headless threaded rods with a fishing line, drop them through the holes, get them out the back, screw them onto the plate, pull them out, and then... drum roll, clamp one threaded rod under some upwards pressure, and unscrew the other one and put the screw in place. If all goes well in that sleigh of hand, we'll be in business. 

It's either that, or the chainsaw :-/

So this has worked surprisingly well at installation time. Used a file to make the rods pretty pointy. Including some trial/error/retries it took about 1hr of work at the boat park to install one of them. With a bit of practice, it's a 15-20 minute operation.

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  • 1 month later...

I went for a sail yesterday and had a great time.  Wind was westerly at steady 15 - 17 knots w/ occasional gust to 20.  Seas were 1' - 3' with short period.  Downwind I worked up the courage to try sailing from the aft deck of the main hull again.  It was great and I never came close to falling overboard again.  I really have no idea why I fell overboard on June 12.  

Just to give you an idea of how fun the sailing was yesterday, my trip computer  indicated that I averaged over 11 knots and hit a max speed of over 15 knots.  I pretty much did two laps of Windward/Leeward  for a couple of hours.

Weta + wind = FUN!

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BTW, FWIW this is my observation regarding strong wind gennaker reaching sailing positions:

Mostly in the past I have sat on the windward, aft corner of the aka, hiking out.  From this position I can see the gennaker very well which allows me to keep it optimally trimmed and I can keep the boat sailing pretty flat.  However,  I found that when I sit on the aft deck of the main hull, in my limited experience (yesterday),  the boat NEVER buried a bow.  Whereas from the windward position I more often had to drive down out of trouble and did bury the bows hard enough to pitch me forward onto the tramp once. But, when on the aft deck of the main hull, I felt I wasn't as effective keeping the gennaker optimally trimmed because I couldn't see it very well.

Anybody care to chime in with their experiences in this realm?

 

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2 hours ago, unShirley said:

BTW, FWIW this is my observation regarding strong wind gennaker reaching sailing positions:

Mostly in the past I have sat on the windward, aft corner of the aka, hiking out.  From this position I can see the gennaker very well which allows me to keep it optimally trimmed and I can keep the boat sailing pretty flat.  However,  I found that when I sit on the aft deck of the main hull, in my limited experience (yesterday),  the boat NEVER buried a bow.  Whereas from the windward position I more often had to drive down out of trouble and did bury the bows hard enough to pitch me forward onto the tramp once. But, when on the aft deck of the main hull, I felt I wasn't as effective keeping the gennaker optimally trimmed because I couldn't see it very well.

Anybody care to chime in with their experiences in this realm?

 

It's been awhile since I've Weta'd, but I was able to pitch-pole a weta in the power hike position about 1/2 way from the South Tower of the GG Bridge to the St Francis.  In a big ebb. And yes, I intended to do it given I had almost done it by accident, so did it on purpose. Full nose down, ass over bow.

Recovery was easy, and then I went back to do it again but took what I called the "safety position" on the main hull. Bow never came close to burying. 

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54 minutes ago, unShirley said:

Ah, yes, Infamous South Tower. I have been reading about it in another thread.

It was pretty fun seeing that it could be done. I was wearing the harness/tether.

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12 hours ago, unShirley said:

BTW, FWIW this is my observation regarding strong wind gennaker reaching sailing positions:

Mostly in the past I have sat on the windward, aft corner of the aka, hiking out.  From this position I can see the gennaker very well which allows me to keep it optimally trimmed and I can keep the boat sailing pretty flat.  However,  I found that when I sit on the aft deck of the main hull, in my limited experience (yesterday),  the boat NEVER buried a bow.  Whereas from the windward position I more often had to drive down out of trouble and did bury the bows hard enough to pitch me forward onto the tramp once. But, when on the aft deck of the main hull, I felt I wasn't as effective keeping the gennaker optimally trimmed because I couldn't see it very well.

Anybody care to chime in with their experiences in this realm?

 

There is the another option - the widow maker position.

While wearing the harness, slide down from the aft corner of the tramp until you are sitting on the back of the float with the upright arm between your legs.

It prevents the bow from digging in, allows you to keep your weight out and see the gennaker. The only problem is getting back on board!

Paul

#1148, Sydney 

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5 hours ago, Pewit said:

There is the another option - the widow maker position.

While wearing the harness, slide down from the aft corner of the tramp until you are sitting on the back of the float with the upright arm between your legs.

It prevents the bow from digging in, allows you to keep your weight out and see the gennaker. The only problem is getting back on board!

Paul

#1148, Sydney 

Has anyone made an extension of the tramp frame? A bit like the Sydney skiffs. Just a bit of padding...

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10 hours ago, Pewit said:

There is the another option - the widow maker position.

While wearing the harness, slide down from the aft corner of the tramp until you are sitting on the back of the float with the upright arm between your legs.

It prevents the bow from digging in, allows you to keep your weight out and see the gennaker. The only problem is getting back on board!

Paul

#1148, Sydney 

I use to regularly put my ass on the ama back behind the tramp, but, as I have aged, I can no longer get back up to the tramp from that position.  It is not a possibility for me anymore.

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10 hours ago, Pewit said:

There is the another option - the widow maker position.

While wearing the harness, slide down from the aft corner of the tramp until you are sitting on the back of the float with the upright arm between your legs.

It prevents the bow from digging in, allows you to keep your weight out and see the gennaker. The only problem is getting back on board!

Paul

#1148, Sydney 

:-D :-D :-D

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On 10/27/2020 at 6:15 PM, Pewit said:

There is the another option - the widow maker position.

While wearing the harness, slide down from the aft corner of the tramp until you are sitting on the back of the float with the upright arm between your legs.

It prevents the bow from digging in, allows you to keep your weight out and see the gennaker. The only problem is getting back on board!

Paul

#1148, Sydney 

Last time I tried coming back from that position I called it the "eunuch maker"....

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22 hours ago, martin 'hoff said:

Has anyone made an extension of the tramp frame? A bit like the Sydney skiffs. Just a bit of padding...

That's an interesting idea. Someone handy with carbon tubes could make it easily, I wish it was included in the original boat

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On 10/27/2020 at 4:15 AM, Pewit said:

There is the another option - the widow maker position.

While wearing the harness, slide down from the aft corner of the tramp until you are sitting on the back of the float with the upright arm between your legs.

It prevents the bow from digging in, allows you to keep your weight out and see the gennaker. The only problem is getting back on board!

Paul

#1148, Sydney 

Eunuch maker.

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  • 1 month later...

I guess I saw your post before you edited it, so I will contribute my $0.02 anyway for your future experiments.  When sailing upwind in strong winds, i.e. 15 knots +,  I have the windward telltale fluttering up at about a 45 degree angle rather than streaming.  I do this on all boats I sail on and it works well for me both racing and cruising (day-sailing) situations. 

 

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Try using he free RceQs App to record and analyse your tracks. The replay provides VMG so you can see which angle is faster as well as a “Groove” indicator which shows you are sailing your optimal course.

https://raceqs.com/race-analytics/

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52 minutes ago, unShirley said:

I guess I saw your post before you edited it, so I will contribute my $0.02 anyway for your future experiments.  When sailing upwind in strong winds, i.e. 15 knots +,  I have the windward telltale fluttering up at about a 45 degree angle rather than streaming.  I do this on all boats I sail on and it works well for me both racing and cruising (day-sailing) situations. 

 

unShirley, that is exactly what I "feel" should be happening, but I keep footing off just a bit to get the telltale flowing. GREAT TIP, I´ll try that without feeling guilty :D

Pewit: yeah I´m just now reviewing tracks with RaceQ, thanks

 

Since I got relevant responses, I´ll post the question: I got the impression that when ama hiking in stronger winds (15-20), I  had to foot off and point a little bit less than when just sitting on the rail with a bit less wind, to keep the jib telltales flowing. The boat goes beautifully fast, but lower than "normal" upwind angles.

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Just be sure the telltales are in good positions on your jib; that the main telltales and jib telltales are acting similarly together, and that the main leach telltales are showing good flow and, of course, that top, mid and bottom telltales on the jib look alike.  Truth, it is hard to do all of this, which is why sailing is fun.

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Our Weta rudder lockdown rod breaks, on average, once a year. The root cause is that – during launching it has a devilish tendency to getting tangled with the mainsheet and seeing some unexpected sudden side force – mainsail flaps a bit and snap. Or it gets into an awkward angle and jams with the deck sides; rudderhead turns and snap. I've added a pretty short bungee loop to keep it really close to the tiller, and it's helped a bit but not enough. 

There's nothing more jarring than breaking a crucial part right as you launch.

Also, for whatever reason, it fits really tight (screwed to have the shortest length possible, the pin barely makes it into the hole) so its always in tension -- maybe this is a good thing. But that's not the reason it breaks.

Are we doing something wrong? Is there a known fix or workaround to this?

 

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19 minutes ago, martin 'hoff said:

Our Weta rudder lockdown rod breaks, on average, once a year. The root cause is that – during launching it has a devilish tendency to getting tangled with the mainsheet and seeing some unexpected sudden side force – mainsail flaps a bit and snap. Or it gets into an awkward angle and jams with the deck sides; rudderhead turns and snap. I've added a pretty short bungee loop to keep it really close to the tiller, and it's helped a bit but not enough. 

There's nothing more jarring than breaking a crucial part right as you launch.

Also, for whatever reason, it fits really tight (screwed to have the shortest length possible, the pin barely makes it into the hole) so its always in tension -- maybe this is a good thing. But that's not the reason it breaks.

Are we doing something wrong? Is there a known fix or workaround to this?

 

 

I have never had this problem, so, I guess I am confused as to how it is happening to you.  When you say it happens while launching, do you mean at a ramp, or while you are pushing off to sail off a beach?  I ask, because I launch at a ramp, tie the boat to a dock and then go sailing.  I don't attach my mainsheet to the clue until I am about to push off the dock.

BTW: this would be a good issue to post here:

WCNA Forum, Technical Advice

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1 hour ago, martin 'hoff said:

Our Weta rudder lockdown rod breaks, on average, once a year. The root cause is that – during launching it has a devilish tendency to getting tangled with the mainsheet and seeing some unexpected sudden side force – mainsail flaps a bit and snap. Or it gets into an awkward angle and jams with the deck sides; rudderhead turns and snap. I've added a pretty short bungee loop to keep it really close to the tiller, and it's helped a bit but not enough. 

There's nothing more jarring than breaking a crucial part right as you launch.

Also, for whatever reason, it fits really tight (screwed to have the shortest length possible, the pin barely makes it into the hole) so its always in tension -- maybe this is a good thing. But that's not the reason it breaks.

Are we doing something wrong? Is there a known fix or workaround to this?

 

Martin, I only broke it once in 8 years. I launch from a beach with little waves, and I hit sand banks often, so the rod sees a lot of action. Your experience is not common to me. The rod does jam against the sides on accasion, but never snagged the mainsheet. 

Maybe the cause is it is so tight. Mine is in the middle of the screw, so it has travel to adjust back and forth.

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1 hour ago, martin 'hoff said:

Our Weta rudder lockdown rod breaks, on average, once a year. The root cause is that – during launching it has a devilish tendency to getting tangled with the mainsheet and seeing some unexpected sudden side force – mainsail flaps a bit and snap. Or it gets into an awkward angle and jams with the deck sides; rudderhead turns and snap. I've added a pretty short bungee loop to keep it really close to the tiller, and it's helped a bit but not enough. 

There's nothing more jarring than breaking a crucial part right as you launch.

Also, for whatever reason, it fits really tight (screwed to have the shortest length possible, the pin barely makes it into the hole) so its always in tension -- maybe this is a good thing. But that's not the reason it breaks.

Are we doing something wrong? Is there a known fix or workaround to this?

 

The workaround is to remove the rod and use the “Bungee Auto-Kickup System”

Wrap thick bungee cord  (at least 6mm) around the foil and stock between the pintles. It needs to be tight enough so that the foil doesn’t lift under normal loads when the bungee loops are slid to the bottom pintle after launch.

On impact it allows the foil to raise but return to the normal position. To raise fully, pull the foil tip up and the bungee slides up to rest on the “horn” of the foil and hold it up.

If you need to raise the foil to approach a ramp or beach, tie a line to the top of the horn and secure it to the tiller with a loop of bungee around the tiller. Pull the line to raise the foil - you may need to slide the bungee to the upper pintle first to reduce the resistance.

0FE6AC64-5631-4CF1-A146-AA06DF0185A0.jpeg.8371ab039e5de72d9be846dd0f9676fc.jpeg

http://wetaforum.com/forums/topic/bungee-rudder-kickup-system/

 

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Thanks for the replies!

We did try bungee, but in heavy weather it doesn't quite cut it. Thick bungee, 3 wraps, tight. It was an effort to raise and lower it.

We launch from a nice beach, dominant wind is a headwind when launching, pretty shifty. You have to hop on and move quick so we're typically with rudder partially down and main hook on clew.

When launching solo, you're moving the boat about to get the trolley back on beach etc then bear off and hop on boat. In fresh and fun conditions it might be blowing a very shifty 15 header. Flat water as we're in a bay.

 

 

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A further development of the above that allows you to steer in shallow water is to keep the “fork” on the end of the bar attached to the foil.

Wrap some butyl tape around to provide cushioning then, with the bungee slid to the top pintle,  flip it down between the foil and the stock to stop the rudder rising completely which holds the blade in the water enough to steer (don’t make any hard turns as you could damage the stock). Once in deeper water, you can flip the fork out of the way and slide the bungee down to hold the blade down.

766CA9D2-75A1-4029-A6CC-2E92EA341753.thumb.jpeg.d360819903cee7783d8f4a4ca7a6273c.jpeg

2129EB42-BFC9-4885-B39A-98ACEFE140F9.thumb.jpeg.24abdc0146af6e802363e6a55180cc8f.jpeg

F1D9B95E-2F9B-40A6-A2E9-5982CDB11EA3.thumb.jpeg.7c721230d55df7521180f05000e6ffd1.jpeg

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5 minutes ago, martin 'hoff said:

Thanks for the replies!

We did try bungee, but in heavy weather it doesn't quite cut it. Thick bungee, 3 wraps, tight. It was an effort to raise and lower it.

We launch from a nice beach, dominant wind is a headwind when launching, pretty shifty. You have to hop on and move quick so we're typically with rudder partially down and main hook on clew.

When launching solo, you're moving the boat about to get the trolley back on beach etc then bear off and hop on boat. In fresh and fun conditions it might be blowing a very shifty 15 header. Flat water as we're in a bay.

 

 

Go fir a 4th turn of bungee and/or tension it more so that it can rise up. You have to remember to slide it down to the bottom pintle after launch. I’ve tested it in winds over 30 knots without issue except if you get seaweed wrapped around it.

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OK,  your adjustment is in the wrong direction, at least for sailing. You do not want the lock-down rod shorter than the placement hole. It should be longer, so that when you attempt to lock the rudder down, you have to push, not pull, the rod towards the rudder. It should be gently bowed up when locked in place.

What you have now, with tension on the rod, is a situation where if the rudder hits anything it slams the rod forward and without any upward bend you get a compression fracture.

If the rod is lengthened and bowed upwards, any time the rudder hits something (with sufficient force) the impact further bends the rod up and pops it clear of the retaining hole.

So adjust the rod so that it is a bit too long, rather than a bit too short, and you won't break another one, guaranteed.

Then make a loose loop of velcro that will fit over the tiller and lock down rod. When the rudder is up and the rod is in the "up" hole, slip the loop over it to hold it in place. This keeps it from coming out, getting loose and snagging on things or having things snag on it. When you launch, just slip the velcro loop forward and off the rod, and push the rod back and into the "down" hole. Problems solved.

...........................

"Modern hull design has made a mockery of theoretical hull length speed limits." 

 

 

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Great stuff all around. Thank you! A small clarification. I didn't explain the rod situation well. Perhaps due to something in the rudder head or the tiller, the rod is always compressed - exactly what Tom recommends. We screw it as short as can be, and the pin barely gets in the hole.

Will write more tomorrow.

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1 hour ago, martin 'hoff said:

Great stuff all around. Thank you! A small clarification. I didn't explain the rod situation well. Perhaps due to something in the rudder head or the tiller, the rod is always compressed - exactly what Tom recommends. We screw it as short as can be, and the pin barely gets in the hole.

Will write more tomorrow.

The rod is suppose to be compressed. It should be slightly bowed in the middle. 

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17 hours ago, bhyde said:

The rod is suppose to be compressed. It should be slightly bowed in the middle. 

That's great to hear. We thought it was an anomaly. I still think there's something dodgy in my rudderhead or tiller because we shorten it as much as it'll go, to the point of jamming it tight. But that's secondary.

About the breakage, it's great to hear it doesn't happen to others often.

- We'll try again the bungee setup -- have 8mm bungee, will go a few extra wraps and go as tight as we can handle. 

- We do have a replacement rod on order -- we already had a short line or short thin bungee loop. I'm going to make really tight so it's a bit of work to remove it (not too tight so the safety feature still works)

Part of the problem is that we launch solo with the rudder half down so the pin isn't in either hole. Maybe some procedure changes help here. Keep it in the up position and only lower the rudder once you're on the boat for example. 

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43 minutes ago, martin 'hoff said:

Part of the problem is that we launch solo with the rudder half down so the pin isn't in either hole. Maybe some procedure changes help here. Keep it in the up position and only lower the rudder once you're on the boat for example. 

Try using the "fork" with the bungee to keep it in the half down position as suggested above and then remove the fork and slide the bungee down when you get into deeper water.

I find the rod is a PITA when half down as it snags ropes and can damage the horn of the foil if it catches as can repeated impacts. 

The bungee setup makes it much eaiser when approaching the beach as you only have to deal with the daggerboard.

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14 minutes ago, Pewit said:

Try using the "fork" with the bungee to keep it in the half down position as suggested above and then remove the fork and slide the bungee down when you get into deeper water.

I find the rod is a PITA when half down as it snags ropes and can damage the horn of the foil if it catches as can repeated impacts. 

The bungee setup makes it much eaiser when approaching the beach as you only have to deal with the daggerboard.

Thanks for the suggestion! I'll try it. The new rod will take some time to arrive :-)

When we had it with a bungee before, I cannot fully recall the exact layout but it had a very stable half-down position just with the bungee. We don't go fast on departure or approaching the beach, so it doesn't have to be locked in that position.  

I think we'd raise the bungee halfway, but not past the wingnut, and pull the rudder to the half-way position. The bungee would then be in an obtuse angle over the wingnut, and this seemed very effective in keeping the rudder in that position in sub-10kt speeds.

The reason we abandoned the setup was that we felt it had a bit of give in fresh conditions, the rudder would lift a little bit and steering got super heavy.

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4 hours ago, martin 'hoff said:

The reason we abandoned the setup was that we felt it had a bit of give in fresh conditions, the rudder would lift a little bit and steering got super heavy.

I think either you didn't have the bungee tight enough, not enough turns or didn't slide it down to the bottom pintle - it want to be set so that it requires considerable force to lift the foil when the blade is down and the bungee slid down.

The bungee proved itseld recently when we were racing in a salt-water lake with schools of big jellyfish (aka blubber jellyfish) and I hit at least 10 of them, some really hard when moving fast - those using the rod kept having to stop and re-fix it whereas I could carry on.

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5 hours ago, martin 'hoff said:

Thanks for the suggestion! I'll try it. The new rod will take some time to arrive :-)

When we had it with a bungee before, I cannot fully recall the exact layout but it had a very stable half-down position just with the bungee. We don't go fast on departure or approaching the beach, so it doesn't have to be locked in that position.  

I think we'd raise the bungee halfway, but not past the wingnut, and pull the rudder to the half-way position. The bungee would then be in an obtuse angle over the wingnut, and this seemed very effective in keeping the rudder in that position in sub-10kt speeds.

The reason we abandoned the setup was that we felt it had a bit of give in fresh conditions, the rudder would lift a little bit and steering got super heavy.

You might also give Nor'Banks a call. Believe it or not the early Wetas delivered to the US had Dotan kick up rudders. My first Weta (#151) originally had this type of rudder, which I later replaced with the current version. If you're not familiar with this type of rudder/cassette system, it is used on several catamarans and can be kicked up or down by pushing/pulling the tiller extension. It's very nice and kicks up if you hit something. I'd be willing to bet there is a pile of them laying around somewhere or someone has one you can get hold of. The guys at Nor'Banks could probably find you one. Might make the off-the-beach launch a bit easier.

rudder-20-blade-2-5TyER.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

We have fickle winds here  November - February.  Been thinking about getting auxiliary power to make sure I can get back to the harbor if I become becalmed offshore.  What auxiliary power have any of you used and, based on your experience with it, would you recommend it?

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2 hours ago, unShirley said:

We have fickle winds here  November - February.  Been thinking about getting auxiliary power to make sure I can get back to the harbor if I become becalmed offshore.  What auxiliary power have any of you used and, based on your experience with it, would you recommend it?

My buddy with the Weta fitted a trolling motor on his, but we were never more than a mile away from the marina in these light wind days.  Used it more to get out of the marina than anything since sailing out was pretty impossible since the fairway was dead upwind and too narrow to tack successfully and make headway--of course we did it a couple times, but 20 tacks to go 600 yards was a bit much.  Before he got the trolling motor, we tried a battery operated drill fitted with a prop on a round batten.  Worked well enough to rescue us in becalmed and zero current.  A really light gas engine (but where are you going to stow the extra gas) would be ideal, I think.  Don't think you can get a 2 stroke in CA, but those would give you the best weight/power ratio (but would also use more gas/mile).    

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3 hours ago, unShirley said:

We have fickle winds here  November - February.  Been thinking about getting auxiliary power to make sure I can get back to the harbor if I become becalmed offshore.  What auxiliary power have any of you used and, based on your experience with it, would you recommend it?

You may find this thread on outboard motors and brackets useful on the Wetaforum.

http://wetaforum.com/forums/topic/outboard-motors-and-brackets/

Personally, I’ve only used a telescopic paddle but I can understand the need for something requiring less effort.

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1 hour ago, MultiThom said:

My buddy with the Weta fitted a trolling motor on his, but we were never more than a mile away from the marina in these light wind days.  Used it more to get out of the marina than anything since sailing out was pretty impossible since the fairway was dead upwind and too narrow to tack successfully and make headway--of course we did it a couple times, but 20 tacks to go 600 yards was a bit much.  Before he got the trolling motor, we tried a battery operated drill fitted with a prop on a round batten.  Worked well enough to rescue us in becalmed and zero current.  A really light gas engine (but where are you going to stow the extra gas) would be ideal, I think.  Don't think you can get a 2 stroke in CA, but those would give you the best weight/power ratio (but would also use more gas/mile).    

Dang, I can't find it, but I recently read about an electric "longtail" motor for dingies. It's basically a 5ft or so long tube, with LIon batteries and motor in the tube, ending in a propellor, and it has a pin for an oarlock on the transom. Drop the pin in, go. Would be the easiest to store on a weta of all the little e-engines. For the life of me, can't find the link.

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1 hour ago, MultiThom said:

My buddy with the Weta fitted a trolling motor on his, but we were never more than a mile away from the marina in these light wind days.  Used it more to get out of the marina than anything since sailing out was pretty impossible since the fairway was dead upwind and too narrow to tack successfully and make headway--of course we did it a couple times, but 20 tacks to go 600 yards was a bit much.  Before he got the trolling motor, we tried a battery operated drill fitted with a prop on a round batten.  Worked well enough to rescue us in becalmed and zero current.  A really light gas engine (but where are you going to stow the extra gas) would be ideal, I think.  Don't think you can get a 2 stroke in CA, but those would give you the best weight/power ratio (but would also use more gas/mile).    

I do suggest avoiding made in china outboards.  Had one and while it was cheap, it did not start after getting drenched (so not much use on a Weta).  The pull cord ripped out and was impossible to replace.  Hangkai was the "brand name".  Avoid it.

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4 hours ago, unShirley said:

We have fickle winds here  November - February.  Been thinking about getting auxiliary power to make sure I can get back to the harbor if I become becalmed offshore.  What auxiliary power have any of you used and, based on your experience with it, would you recommend it?

I did what Linda did in the everglades. A paddle with a T handle, sitting in front of the mast, with a couple of lines led aft to the rudder, plus footstraps to steer from there. The paddle splits and is stowed in the hatch. It works well enough to get in and out of harbors or small channels. I have paddled for 2 miles at 2.5kt average with little effort.

Paddle is custom, due to weta freeboard, it is longer than a kayaks and shorter than a SUP's

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  • 2 weeks later...

So I have been debating what dinghy to get here in South Florida, and I have pretty much decided on the Weta.  I've sailed them a few times and have always loved the boat.  @Pewit I would love to see the mainsheet bridle you have that allows the tiller extension to stay forward.  Long time Laser and Finn sailor I had issues getting used to tacking and gybing  with the extension behind the main.  I would prefer that over the twin tiller extensions (although I got used to those on the I-14s).  When I do get the boat I'll get the self tacker as well as the SQ top main.  Another question I have for you guys ; is it beneficial to have both the pin head and SQ top main?  I'm a full sized Finn sailor at 6'3" 230 lbs, and I know square top mains can be depowered as well as pin head full batten mains.

 

I know there is a lot of info on Wetaforums.com, but out here on the ship my company's firewall blocks that page for some reason so won't be able to browse those forums for another two and half weeks when I go home.

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I’ve switched from the bridle to twin tillers with my new boat.

However, after trying  with various iterations, I used my original bridle setup for convenience - as you can set it up and adjust easily after rigging the boat.

Tie a small Ronstan Shock in the middle of a 3m 5mm line. Use Dyneema to lash the block to the mainsheet block.

Take the tails of the line and wrap them around the ama arms either side (start under from the rear and exit at the front under the trap) and then through the trolley tie down cleat and pull taught. Mark the cleat position on the line.

You may need to turn the cleats depending on the age of the boat.

Paul

New Weta #1300

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On 1/24/2021 at 8:42 AM, Pewit said:

I’ve switched from the bridle to twin tillers with my new boat.

However, after trying  with various iterations, I used my original bridle setup for convenience - as you can set it up and adjust easily after rigging the boat.

Tie a small Ronstan Shock in the middle of a 3m 5mm line. Use Dyneema to lash the block to the mainsheet block.

Take the tails of the line and wrap them around the ama arms either side (start under from the rear and exit at the front under the trap) and then through the trolley tie down cleat and pull taught. Mark the cleat position on the line.

You may need to turn the cleats depending on the age of the boat.

Paul

New Weta #1300

Pete i have gone back to the bridle, as i am a laser sailor and cant get used to the flicking around the back, and it has worked for me. However i have not used the amas , but have drilled a hole thru the skin at the  gunwhale back from the amas. So much easier , you have to extend the tiller of course, all my capsizes have been while tacking to retrieve the extension. 

cheers

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7 hours ago, patzefran said:

Looks like some weta sailors use twin tillers on their boat. Twin tillers are used on Trimarans with high volume outriggers able to lift the mainhull, are they really useful on wetas ?

They are also used on many skiffs and the Weta shares similar layout to a skiff as it's equally wide.

About 20% of sailors have been using them in Australia as the issue of having to pass the tiller round the stern while trying to face forward makes efficient tacking difficult - in addition to slowing the boat as you have to put your weight on the stern - especailly in light wind.  Also for two up sailors twin tiller means the crew doesn't get hit on the head with every tack.

In August last year, Weta introduced their own twin tiller extension kit as they had resolved the issue of posting a long tiller but making it two-piece which just requires glueing to fix the join. It also includes a shockcord and ring system which prevents the unused tiller from dragging in the water.

https://www.wetamarine.com/news-and-events/twin-tiller-extension-kit-available-now/

I've been using a "Laser-style" fixed bridle for four years which allows you to pass the tiller underneath (30cm additional length required) which means you can hang on to the tiller through the tack. However I've just acquired a new boat (#1300 - note the number) and will install twin-tiller extensions on it. Expecially after my first race last weekend when I didn't have time to get the new tiller system sorted and had to revert to the original round the back manouvre - hated it - especially when it led to me taking out the leeward mark!

Paul (#325 & #1300)
Sydney

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18 hours ago, patzefran said:

Looks like some weta sailors use twin tillers on their boat. Twin tillers are used on Trimarans with high volume outriggers able to lift the mainhull, are they really useful on wetas ?

Twin tillers and twin (dual) rudders are two different things. If you have a tri capable of lifting the main hull, enough to lift a center mounted rudder clear of the water, then you need two rudders, one on each ama, to maintain steerage. As such, you can still employ a single tiller just as catamarans do. Twin tillers are really just a convenience and can be used whether you have one or two rudders.

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I think we’re getting confused between Twin Tiller EXTENSIONS and Twin Tillers.

Wetas use Twin Tiller Extensions not Twin Tillers..

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On 1/23/2021 at 2:24 PM, Jkdubz808 said:

So I have been debating what dinghy to get here in South Florida, and I have pretty much decided on the Weta.  I've sailed them a few times and have always loved the boat.  @Pewit I would love to see the mainsheet bridle you have that allows the tiller extension to stay forward.  Long time Laser and Finn sailor I had issues getting used to tacking and gybing  with the extension behind the main.  I would prefer that over the twin tiller extensions (although I got used to those on the I-14s).  When I do get the boat I'll get the self tacker as well as the SQ top main.  Another question I have for you guys ; is it beneficial to have both the pin head and SQ top main?  I'm a full sized Finn sailor at 6'3" 230 lbs, and I know square top mains can be depowered as well as pin head full batten mains.

 

I know there is a lot of info on Wetaforums.com, but out here on the ship my company's firewall blocks that page for some reason so won't be able to browse those forums for another two and half weeks when I go home.

At your weight and the typical conditions in South Florida, I'd go with the fat-top main. Weta's are not known for their light performance and I've often wished for a few more square feet of main on those drifty days. I would recommend you increase the downhaul purchase to depower if one of those SF t-storms decides to visit you unexpectedly. With 8:1+ you can really bend the shit out of the upper mast and sail in the high twenties to low thirties in perfect comfort and style. Right about the time the Hobie guys are calling it quits is right about the time you pull on a gob of downhaul and party on.

As far as tillers go...well, everyone seems to have a different take. I've had two Wetas and have rigged them with dual tiller extensions and the factory single extension. I've returned to using the single tiller extension simple because it's less shit to get tangled up on the spin sheets. If you decide to go with a bridle, be careful about the attachment points as the mounting location may not handle the load in extreme conditions.

The self-tacker is a great feature. I wish I had one. The only downside being it is more difficult to heave-to, which I find a very convenient way to park the boat between races or just to chillax and have a sandwich, take a piss, or enjoy the spectacle of nature. My $0.02 worth.

 

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I have a Self Tacker and Twin Tiller Extensions on my new boat.

I agree about the ST issue of  not being able to put the boat hove too as I often used it on starts to make a controlled slow approach to the line and then release just before the start. Or to do stuff between races.

I’m going to try adding a stop that can temporarily hold the slide at one end of the track using the holes in the track which will work for taking a break.

But I also use crossover jib sheets and wondered if I can use the tails to temporarily tie the jib clew to the forward ama upright so it can be used for my starting procedure. You can’t create a new fitting under the class rules but the jib sheet is tied to the clew anyway :-)

Paul

#325 & # 1300 (note the new hull number)

Sydney

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16 hours ago, bhyde said:

At your weight and the typical conditions in South Florida, I'd go with the fat-top main. Weta's are not known for their light performance and I've often wished for a few more square feet of main on those drifty days. I would recommend you increase the downhaul purchase to depower if one of those SF t-storms decides to visit you unexpectedly. With 8:1+ you can really bend the shit out of the upper mast and sail in the high twenties to low thirties in perfect comfort and style. Right about the time the Hobie guys are calling it quits is right about the time you pull on a gob of downhaul and party on.

As far as tillers go...well, everyone seems to have a different take. I've had two Wetas and have rigged them with dual tiller extensions and the factory single extension. I've returned to using the single tiller extension simple because it's less shit to get tangled up on the spin sheets. If you decide to go with a bridle, be careful about the attachment points as the mounting location may not handle the load in extreme conditions.

The self-tacker is a great feature. I wish I had one. The only downside being it is more difficult to heave-to, which I find a very convenient way to park the boat between races or just to chillax and have a sandwich, take a piss, or enjoy the spectacle of nature. My $0.02 worth.

 

Thanks for your input.  My original thoughts were the square top for the exact same reasons.  Easy to depower if need be.  I am going to go with the twin extensions, but may switch if I don't like them or they cause issues.

16 hours ago, Pewit said:

I have a Self Tacker and Twin Tiller Extensions on my new boat.

I agree about the ST issue of  not being able to put the boat hove too as I often used it on starts to make a controlled slow approach to the line and then release just before the start. Or to do stuff between races.

I’m going to try adding a stop that can temporarily hold the slide at one end of the track using the holes in the track which will work for taking a break.

But I also use crossover jib sheets and wondered if I can use the tails to temporarily tie the jib clew to the forward ama upright so it can be used for my starting procedure. You can’t create a new fitting under the class rules but the jib sheet is tied to the clew anyway :-)

Paul

#325 & # 1300 (note the new hull number)

Sydney

I was thinking about that type of thing, like a small clip on a piece of line that I can use to keep the ST car to windward and then just sheet in to go hove to.  It could work.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I seem to recall a video showing an experienced Weta sailor (Tom Kirkman or Paul) going from trailer to sailing in 25 minutes or so. But I can't find it now. Did I imagine it?

(I do see Tom's tips and tricks videos, but that's not the same as the 'demo' video showing it happen). @Tom Kirkman @Pewit

 

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3 hours ago, martin 'hoff said:

I seem to recall a video showing an experienced Weta sailor (Tom Kirkman or Paul) going from trailer to sailing in 25 minutes or so. But I can't find it now. Did I imagine it?

(I do see Tom's tips and tricks videos, but that's not the same as the 'demo' video showing it happen). @Tom Kirkman @Pewit

 

this?

 

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From the time I roll up at a landing or beach, to launching the boat and sailing it, is usually no more than 20 minutes. If I rush I can do it in a few minutes less. But this also entails not wasting time talking to other sailors while we rig. Sitting on the dolly at the beach, I'd wager than I can fully rig and launch mine in under 15 minutes, maybe just 12 or thereabouts. I'll have to try it this year with an impartial 3rd party running the stopwatch.

A good portion of my boat stays rigged, on the trailer. There is a lot of stuff you don't have to de-rig or remove just to break it down and trailer it. Most Weta sailors I'm around take their boats further apart than I do mine. Just no reason to remove halyards, stays, etc. The guys in the above video spent (wasted) 10 minutes on running and routing rigging - you only have to do that the very first time you rig, not every time subsequently. Side stays never come off. Halyards remain on the mast. Tiller extenstion/s remain attached to the rudder/tiller assembly.  The bowsprit carries the screecher, sheet (attached to one side) and furling line. They all remain bungeed to the bowsprit. None of this stuff has to come off.

 

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Totally agree Tom. We have a local sailor who starts rigging an hour before everyone else.

If you double the length of the tramp ties to the hull through the trampoline edge, you can leave them attached and, after inserting the ama arms, just pull the slack through at one end, cleat it off and roll the excess around your hand like the halyards.

More tips here https://www.wetaforum.com/forums/topic/how-to-speed-up-rigging-your-weta/

Paul #1300

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 10/28/2020 at 12:58 AM, martin 'hoff said:

Has anyone made an extension of the tramp frame? A bit like the Sydney skiffs. Just a bit of padding...

My son who sails an 18 in Sydney (where all 3 are behind the transom downwind) has told me to make some extensions out the back of the tramp to sit on downwind. Don't quite know how to achieve this, but would be interesting.

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On 1/29/2021 at 7:57 AM, bhyde said:

As far as tillers go...well, everyone seems to have a different take. I've had two Wetas and have rigged them with dual tiller extensions and the factory single extension. I've returned to using the single tiller extension simple because it's less shit to get tangled up on the spin sheets. If you decide to go with a bridle, be careful about the attachment points as the mounting location may not handle the load in extreme conditions.

 

 

I sail 2-up and have used twin tiller extensions for the last 2 seasons. First season - regular issues with extensions getting caught under kite sheets/tramp loops etc. Extended their length to 1870mm and now never an issue. They are just a 20mm carbon tube, held on the tramp with elastic which I detatch if it's 10kts or less. 

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I've switched from the fixed bridle to the Weta twin tiller extension setup and it's taken a bit of used to  - notably trying to remember not to take the tiller with you!

I've made a few mods which may help http://wetaforum.com/forums/topic/twin-tiller-extension-kit-mods/

I've also been playing around with the ring bungee attachment point by threading it through different loops on the tramp edge and then adjusting the bungee length. So for example when it's windy, I use an outer loop so that there's more force to prevent the extension from being swept off the tramp.  

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If the tiller extensions are properly sized and fitted so that they do NOT rest on the tramps, they will never get tangled in anything on the boat. When I saw the system that Weta unveiled recently, I sent them a message about what they should expect by having those extensions rigged to lie on the tramp, and how to rig them to lie behind and below the tramps, which I have done for almost 10 years. Now I'm seeing occasional complaints to that exact effect by people who have rigged the new set-up on their boats. Wait until they experience a snag or hang in really heavy air!

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I got interested in possibility getting a Weta and went to the Weta forum web site and read the post about what to look for in a used Weta.  There seems to be several different versions built in different places and the QC is not the same for all of them.  So are there any particular hints about which years are the best bang for the buck and which ones to avoid.  The first on I will likely look at is a 2010 model but if I should run from that year it will save me a half days drive to look at it.

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2 hours ago, Tomfl said:

I got interested in possibility getting a Weta and went to the Weta forum web site and read the post about what to look for in a used Weta.  There seems to be several different versions built in different places and the QC is not the same for all of them.  So are there any particular hints about which years are the best bang for the buck and which ones to avoid.  The first on I will likely look at is a 2010 model but if I should run from that year it will save me a half days drive to look at it.

I have a 2010 (#572) and abuse it on a regular basis. In fact, I beat the hell out of it today. I have never had any component fail on the boat. Ever. There are no stress cracks or any other structural problems that I can find, and I sail in some fairly nasty conditions. 

My Previous Weta (#151) got the same treatment and the only thing that ever failed was the mainsheet padeye. Other than that, it always got me home regardless of the conditions or my stupidity. 

Between the two boats, I've capsized 5 times (that's gotta be a record) and was always able to right the boat and continue sailing. They are fun, solid boats.

Edit: the QC on the earlier boats, like mine, is not as good as the new boats. Fit and finish on the newer boats is much better, but you get what you pay for.

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2 hours ago, Tomfl said:

I got interested in possibility getting a Weta and went to the Weta forum web site and read the post about what to look for in a used Weta.  There seems to be several different versions built in different places and the QC is not the same for all of them.  So are there any particular hints about which years are the best bang for the buck and which ones to avoid.  The first on I will likely look at is a 2010 model but if I should run from that year it will save me a half days drive to look at it.

There's a used Weta Buyers Guide here

http://www.wetaforum.com/wiki/weta-wiki/buying-a-used-weta/

If you can find one, the Singapore-built boats (<#1000) are better quality than the Chinese ones. Early boats (<#500 approx) are lighter built but a bit fragile. Although as you can see from some forum posts, it's not hard to repair them if you have fibreglass repair skills or follow tutorials on YouTube.

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My Weta is a 2012 model. I have kept track, until at least the past couple years, and had amassed nearly 2500 hours on my Weta at last count. The boat has been sailed hard and the only failures I've had have been related to rigging errors on my part. No structural parts have failed. I have worked through 3 complete sets of sails and replace some sections of the luff track, but that's normal wear and tear. Of course, I tend to do a good bit of preventative maintenance between uses which helps to keep otherwise unforeseen issues at bay. I don't think Weta has ever built any "bad" boats. The very earliest ones were missing some wear items that the newer (2010 and up) boats were privy to. Otherwise your task is to find a used boat that has been properly cared for. I know of a couple or three boats in my local area that are near basket cases at this point, but it wasn't Weta's fault that the owners stored them outdoors, uncovered for a decade, or ran them into other boats, docks, etc. None of the various Weta incarnations suffer from any particular maladies. They're built light but sturdy and if the owner has taken decent care of the boat it'll be fine.

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  • 5 weeks later...

A fun rip – a good friend and my 11yo son in 15kt gusting 20+kt, with big shifts in the gust. I challenged them to run the kite and steer for balance aggressively.

I think we need the center hiking strap for the helm... :-)

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Hi guys,newbie here but a long time monohull sailor/ racer. I have been away from the sailing scene for a little while whilst I finished raising my boy and further advanced my career. I bore you with all this because I am jumping back into sailing and after doing some research I decided to go with the Weta! I have one being built as we speak and will be delivered some time the end of July in NC at East Coast Sailboats. 

I’m really excited about it, and can’t wait to bebop around the bay and do some regattas. I have lurked this thread for a couple of days to gain some knowledge. 

BTW I have sailed the Weta before, a friend of mine bought one about 10 years ago and he let me sail the boat for 5 days and that’s when I fell in love with the speeds of a multihull. 

Looking forward to meeting some of you and the fun I will have teaching the grandkids how to sail.

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On 3/20/2021 at 3:56 PM, bhyde said:

I have a 2010 (#572) and abuse it on a regular basis. In fact, I beat the hell out of it today. I have never had any component fail on the boat. Ever. There are no stress cracks or any other structural problems that I can find, and I sail in some fairly nasty conditions. 

My Previous Weta (#151) got the same treatment and the only thing that ever failed was the mainsheet padeye. Other than that, it always got me home regardless of the conditions or my stupidity. 

Between the two boats, I've capsized 5 times (that's gotta be a record) and was always able to right the boat and continue sailing. They are fun, solid boats.

Edit: the QC on the earlier boats, like mine, is not as good as the new boats. Fit and finish on the newer boats is much better, but you get what you pay for.

I was reading a really old post of yours from 2009 - did you ever have a go at putting the 29er kite on the Weta?

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On 4/19/2021 at 4:03 PM, martin &#x27;hoff said:

A fun rip – a good friend and my 11yo son in 15kt gusting 20+kt, with big shifts in the gust. I challenged them to run the kite and steer for balance aggressively.

I think we need the center hiking strap for the helm... :-)

 

 

Good stuff. Tell them to sheet the main in tight when running the screecher - it reduces drag and they'll go faster.

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14 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Good stuff. Tell them to sheet the main in tight when running the screecher - it reduces drag and they'll go faster.

What do you mean? How tight? I usually easy until the sail touches the shroud and not more when I want max VMG

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52 minutes ago, sail(plane) said:

What do you mean? How tight? I usually easy until the sail touches the shroud and not more when I want max VMG

They are just talking boatspeed not VMG.  Max VMG for the weta is pretty low and slow.  IN some breezes and currents here locally we had to go ddw wing and wing to make it home against  the current (big current gradient near shore). 

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1 hour ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Good stuff. Tell them to sheet the main in tight when running the screecher - it reduces drag and they'll go faster.

 

1 hour ago, sail(plane) said:

What do you mean? How tight? I usually easy until the sail touches the shroud and not more when I want max VMG

 

40 minutes ago, MultiThom said:

They are just talking boatspeed not VMG.  Max VMG for the weta is pretty low and slow.  IN some breezes and currents here locally we had to go ddw wing and wing to make it home against  the current (big current gradient near shore). 

Ok got it, so I guess we are talking about a beam reach, right? Tom the question still stands, how tight would you have the mainsail for max speed? Thks

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Tom is saying sail it like a skiff. Tightish mainsheet, head up (to a reach) to find flow and bear off as you speed up. 

That's what my son was trying to do (he has some 29er, and we sail a N15) , and Tom's right. Mainsheet is to open there.

Does a deep-slow run get better vmg than skiffie downwind on a Weta? I don't know! What do people do at the Weta worlds?

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It depends on wind strength - coming up for planing speed and bearing away for VMG in a series of s bends is the most common tip I’ve heard as well as aggressively using waves.

in light winds when you can’t plane, low and slow may be better and sometimes I’ve used wing- wing with the kite in such conditions but you need a longer mainsheet to stop it from gybing.

In drifter conditions,  I’ve found sitting at the front of the leeward tramp to reduce drag by raising the windward ama and raising the stern while playing the kite direct from the clew to keep it filling works - although not ideal Weta winds TBH.

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Martin Hoff - Damn right - the Weta is a skiff not a 4KSB.

Once the wind hits double digits, crank the SOB in with both hands if necessary. You're sailing off the headsail and don't need to be dragging the mainsail through the air. Once you achieve enough speed the apparent wind will move forward and the jib and mainsail will "think" they're close hauled upwind. Steer up until you're in danger of going over and then ease down just a tad to get into the "groove" and use the steering to stay there. Once the screecher is set, leave the sheeting in place and drive by steering. It's all about the steering. You can sail this boat in 35 knots and eat a sandwich at the same time if you understand that it's about the steering.

Just do it and you'll see the difference in speed.

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52 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Martin Hoff - Damn right - the Weta is a skiff not a 4KSB.

Once the wind hits double digits, crank the SOB in with both hands if necessary.

lol. I wish I could "like" your post 100x. :-)

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Downwind drive the boat so the apparent wind is about 90 degrees. Trim the main a jib for maximum flow as you would on any skiff. Your best VMG is plus or minus about 10 degrees from 90. In breezy conditions (15kts+), S-turn the boat to build and burn speed for depth and wave control (like a skiff). If waves are more than about 2' - 3', accelerate (head up) on the faces and surf down to "hop" over the next wave. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Some people think the main and jib are just along for the ride going downwind. Jib, pretty much. Main, not so. As a little experiment try sailing the boat downwind in reasonable conditions at about 90 apparent with the kite cleated. Use one of the dolly cleats by the mainsheet to do this or just step on the sheet. Then trim the mainsheet so the main is flowing perfectly, over-sheeted, and over-eased. It makes a difference and you'll soon find out where the average trim is best. I find slightly tight with the top telltales starting to stall works for me. YRMV.

Wing-n-Wing is torturously slow in light conditions. You'll be going exactly the same speed as a Laser. Only do it if you are in restricted waters that don't allow reasonable gybing room, like a narrow channel. I had to do this for 20 miles one day. It's terrible and I'm permanently scared. The jib goes on the same side as the kite if you can't drop it.

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35 minutes ago, bhyde said:

Downwind drive the boat so the apparent wind is about 90 degrees. Trim the main a jib for maximum flow as you would on any skiff. Your best VMG is plus or minus about 10 degrees from 90. In breezy conditions (15kts+), S-turn the boat to build and burn speed for depth and wave control (like a skiff). If waves are more than about 2' - 3', accelerate (head up) on the faces and surf down to "hop" over the next wave. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Some people think the main and jib are just along for the ride going downwind. Jib, pretty much. Main, not so. As a little experiment try sailing the boat downwind in reasonable conditions at about 90 apparent with the kite cleated. Use one of the dolly cleats by the mainsheet to do this or just step on the sheet. Then trim the mainsheet so the main is flowing perfectly, over-sheeted, and over-eased. It makes a difference and you'll soon find out where the average trim is best. I find slightly tight with the top telltales starting to stall works for me. YRMV.

Wing-n-Wing is torturously slow in light conditions. You'll be going exactly the same speed as a Laser. Only do it if you are in restricted waters that don't allow reasonable gybing room, like a narrow channel. I had to do this for 20 miles one day. It's terrible and I'm permanently scared. The jib goes on the same side as the kite if you can't drop it.

I remember that day. I've got a 29er kite if you want to give it a go....

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