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Where are they now? - Retired America's Cup Boat


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3 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Sorry if this was posted earlier, ran across it. Really nice scenes.

 

That was an unbelievable day. A lot of us had no idea how much it would change the course of our lives for the next 35+ years.

My mooring back then was about 100 metres off what had previously  been Newport Offshore, and my office was right there in the shipyard. It was a ringside seat to one of the best summers in AC history.

It was just getting dark by the time the boats towed into the harbor, and the noise of boat horns was deafening, not to mention the signal cannons being fired, the fireworks, and the flares. A lot of Americans had fireworks ready to go to celebrate another NYYC victory, but they figured as long as they've paid for them, the might as well light them off. And they did, for what seemed like hours.

Of course, a lot of Australians came out of the local woodwork that day.

Even many of my American friends were excited, except for one who ran DC's office in both 1980 and 1983. She was in tears. But she still displays half models of Freedom and Liberty in her library at her winter home in Florida, and we still talk about it every time I go over to her house. She can look on the bright side now, 37 years later.

My press pass from that summer is tacked on the bulletin board in my office at home. I vaguely recognize the smiling young guy on it, now that I look like his father.

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This was a really good, sailboat related thread until you, A4E/dg_sailingfan, came here to barf your DB hate into it as well. What a sick troll you are that needs to poison each and ever thread with

You could be right, but I don't remember if there was a lift next to Christies. That might have been Williams and Manchester, which I think had only a single lift. Dennis was based at Williams and Man

Speaking of 12s from 1987...  this is one of the AMERICA II boats, sitting at New England Boat Works in Portsmouth RI.   I was at the yard the other day and there was a ladder in place and she wasn't

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3 hours ago, rh3000 said:

Those sunnies are fucking fantastic!

 

5 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Sorry if this was posted earlier, ran across it. Really nice scenes.

 

great footage there...even some of the World 12 meter Championships off Freo in '86....quick flashes of Australia III...think I still have my Carerra Sunnies stashed away somewhere too!!

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On 8/20/2016 at 5:00 PM, blottodiablo74 said:

Does anybody know what finally happened to Liberty? Not that it matters but so much- after all, It WAS the first American boat to lose the AC, but it is a fairly important, if dubious piece of AC history. You'd think someone might have wanted it to preserve it. 12mrclass.com has it listed as being sold to an "unknown Japanese owner" back in '89. Is that code for "Dennis had it trucked over to the Budweiser facility to make beer cans out of it in return for more sponsorship $$ for the '87 effort"? Kidding, but is it weird that THAT particular boat just disappeared? Kinda the most notorious 12 ever, next to AUS II......

 

Advance was the ugliest 12 above and below the waterline ever built, and I believe it ended up in some Michigan boatyard in multiple pieces later in its life. That I can see. It was a dog in all ways possible and I think it won 2 races overall in summer '83, both most likely flukes(poor Iain Murray, but I'd say the man landed on his feet). But...the boat that lost the Cup for the second time in 132 years? Maybe no one wanted it because of the psychological voodoo associated with it?

 

Speaking of '87 AC...........it amused me to no end that not one of the challengers or defenders showed up with a red boat that year.......

Anyone have a good picture of Advance they could post ?? 

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2 hours ago, Gorby said:

Anyone have a good picture of Advance they could post ?? 

Here's a few, during her Australian trials (from Australian Yearbook of Sail '83) - before the black nose, I think that was added when they got to Newport. 

Advance_1.jpg

Advance_2.jpg

Advance_3.jpg

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18 hours ago, NZL3481 said:

With or without the black nose they painted on it?

She may have been a dog, but she was a good dog. Thank you for posting these !!

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On 6/1/2020 at 9:00 PM, NZL3481 said:

With or without the black nose they painted on it?

I remember walking by the boat after it was eliminated and someone had written SS Titanic on it.  If I remember correctly she had a distinct transom and quarter section.

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On 11/28/2017 at 9:13 AM, ~Stingray~~ said:

 

I know this was posted long ago...

That is Double Bullet II, a 76' racing catamaran designed, built, and raced by Bob Hanel. It has no mast because on the last attempt LA-Hawaii they flipped about midnight the first night about 250 miles off California. July 7 1999. Of course the mast was destroyed.

It sure was fun while it lasted! Wow!

http://www.josephoster.com/multihulls/doublebullet/index.html

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20 minutes ago, Jethrow said:

^ "What are you doing honey, don't duck them, we'll cross for sure!" :lol:

But they are on starboard.

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^^^^^

She's ordered Domino's Pizza back when they had 30  minutes to deliver and has the Stopwatch running to see if they make delivery before the deadline.......... Otherwise those Lawyers on retainer, will have another matter to pursue.

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On 6/6/2020 at 1:02 AM, Priscilla said:

Never a AC contender  Vim US15 built in 1939 and still in active Cup duty until 1970 as a trial horse for Frank Packers Gretel II which has recently just turned 50.

Home port Copenhagen.

 

b-w-old-photo2.thumb.jpg.17ee16d2c9b318c7c388de666e5db97c.jpg

VIM-US15.thumb.jpg.364dc28e17f7213943680e4c535e103c.jpg

 

 

Never a contender, but for sure a beautiful boat. Love the 12's from all eras. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
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On 6/2/2020 at 9:41 AM, Gorby said:

You can still see them on Google Earth.

Hi

I've tried looking for Bengal II and Bengal III (the old Australia IV and Australia III) on Google Earth, but can't find them. I'm wondering whether they have finally gone - they did look in a bad way.

Do you have any co-ordinates I could use as a starting point?

It's a shame to see the very last 12 metre yacht that Ben Lexcen designed in that state, but that's the way things go, I guess. Shortly after, he teamed up with David Lowe to form a yacht design firm, but I'm not sure whether anything he designed himself with that firm got built before he died.

I was at Royal Perth Yacht Club when Australia III was christened (I was a reciprocal member of RPYC via the Royal South Australian Yacht Squadron). That was a bit of a gala. I bumped into Ben and his wife Yvonne (we'd met before) and told him I thought his new boat was beautiful. He said thanks. Three years later he was dead.

Regarding the other 12 metre yachts from Ben's drawing board:

Southern Cross has been extensively modified for island cruising in Queensland. Australia is working as a charter yacht. Australia II is sitting (rather like a butterfly with a pin through it) in Fremantle Maritime Museum. Challenge 12 has been extensively renovated and is racing (as a 12 metre) in USA. South Australia (now renamed New Sweden) had a tandem keel fitted and is also sailing as a 12 metre in Europe.

Cheers and thanks!

 

Karl

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3 hours ago, Karlthevet said:

Hi

I've tried looking for Bengal II and Bengal III (the old Australia IV and Australia III) on Google Earth, but can't find them. I'm wondering whether they have finally gone - they did look in a bad way.

Do you have any co-ordinates I could use as a starting point?

I

 4°23'02.56" N 113°58'14.34" E

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23 hours ago, minch said:

 4°23'02.56" N 113°58'14.34" E 

Hey Minch

Thanks for that - found them.

I'm not sure how current those images are - it would be interesting to see if anyone can verify those boats are still there.

Cheers!

 

Kark

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Hi All

Great set of photos. Sverige is almost unrecognisable.

Pelle Petersson originally designed her as a "mini twelve" for the 1977 Americas Cup campaign. I think he based her on his champion 5.5 Metre Maybe design. She was designed with fairly full bilges for a metre yacht (which would have attracted quite a "d" penalty under the Metre Rule). Therefore she was shorter than most other twelves and with less sail area.

She also had a flat panel delineated by chines on the underside of her stern overhang. Notably, she also had a similar flat panel on the underside of her bow overhang - the thinking was that this would be an efficient cut water when the boat was heeled over and under way. This merged into the forefoot via a reverse knuckle (a little like what the Australian Bob Miller/Ben Lexcen designed Australian Twelve Metre Southern Cross had, but not as extreme).

Later twelves (Australia II being an early notable example) would adopt the flat panel at the stern overhang, but the flat panel bow never really caught on.

Petersson modified Sverige for the 1980 campaign - mainly in the bow area. The reverse knuckle seemed to be more extreme and the flat bow panel seemed to be gone. However she never really got going. After that, she dropped out of sight.

It looks like someone has done a lot of work to tidy up the bow. It now looks more conventional, but would definitely not measure well under the Metre Rule.

The cockpit fit out also looks very rebuilt. The foot powered coffee grinders are gone, but the tiller steering remains. I'm also presuming the two through hull openings near the stern quarter waterline have something to do with the engine and/or possibly cockpit drainage.

It's great to see that she's still sailing and clearly being looked after well - but it looks like she's really just a day sailer now, put out to pasture

Cheers!

Karl.

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On 7/7/2020 at 12:03 PM, Karlthevet said:

Hey Minch

Thanks for that - found them.

I'm not sure how current those images are - it would be interesting to see if anyone can verify those boats are still there.

Cheers!

 

Kark

It usually says at the bottom of the screen on google earth- I think the most recent ones were from 2019.

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Doing an iso-junk out of bookshelves and took these photos of Advance from an old book of 12m photos- one even includes the black nose and description.

The other shows how different she was compared to Challenge 12.

 

967A056C-8F2B-419E-AF9A-B6B24C3B8084.thumb.jpeg.574e2bb27a05138582b2e089972295dd.jpeg25D031EB-83DE-4B3F-B149-F4FA196A90B6.thumb.jpeg.a9c75384f5f1d499765db697e7b4e5e5.jpeg

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi All

Does anyone know how things are going with Stars & Stripes '87 and True North?

They both copped it when that hurricane hit St Maartens a year or so ago. They sustained serious damage and sank. The last photos I've seen of them show them refloated but in a rather sorry state.

Looking at the photos, both boats were dismasted. Stars & Stripes '87 had quite a lot of her starboard topsides bashed in. True North had some serious looking damage to her stern.

These boats were being used for day sailing adventures, along with some other 12 Metre yachts. They're aluminium and built to Lloyd's Specifications, so it would be possible to repair them. However such operations tend to be run on a shoestring budget and I'm not sure whether the operators would be able to fund the repairs.

Also not sure about the other 12 Metre yachts Canada II and Stars & Stripes '86.

It's sad to see a boat that won the America's Cup in that condition. :(

Cheers!

 

Karl

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On 11/26/2017 at 4:28 PM, ~HHN92~ said:

Looks like they moved them out of the parking lot and into the sand:

 

Alnghi A5 in VLC.png

The TaG Heuer catamaran was converted into energy observer solar powered hydrogen vessel on tour right now.
Might be an idea for the old Alinghi.
813126445_Tagheuercatamaran2.jpg.92288ed665c44402844cc33e8339d34f.jpg1275018738_Tagheuercatamaran.jpg.d4a1fb7c143a670deb6328e8d45e0173.jpg

 

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54 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

20180922_101239.thumb.jpg.ff4a1e39f5dd86f6faa904ed21dfba78.jpg20180922_101535.thumb.jpg.0fc678cea9b6fe25cec23813159f1a61.jpg20180922_101258.thumb.jpg.b41eb563806e29720ddc5fd6501d6ba0.jpg20180922_101817.thumb.jpg.c2b4c669e61accc6a921a604dd16766e.jpg

20180915_160830.jpg.24a040749679063eb3b073c57022a0c1.thumb.jpg.ee728de7cec6a03e059d8d0e75430c19.jpg

More in this short thread:

 

At least one knows where to find a stable platform.
Valencia is the somewhat ghosttown location.
On the other hand it's in the middle of fun and beauty.
 

alicante.PNG

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2 hours ago, Schakel said:

The TaG Heuer catamaran was converted into energy observer solar powered hydrogen vessel on tour right now.

They took a very fast yacht & successfully turned it into a very slow yacht <_<

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17 hours ago, hoom said:

They took a very fast yacht & successfully turned it into a very slow yacht <_<

And sailing was zero emmission as well:D
It's a research vessel meant for scholars.

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2 minutes ago, hoom said:

Waaaaat!!!!

Finally getting some of the recognition it deserves B)

I knew you’d be excited! :D

It’s great news.  The three New Zealand boats which have won the America’s Cup will now all be on display.  I’ll be interested to see what they’ve done with NZL 60’s livery etc... when she was sitting up at YDL, she was just a black hull.  Needs the sponsors and silver ferns back in place!

 

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9 hours ago, DohaNZ said:

I knew you’d be excited! :D

It’s great news.  The three New Zealand boats which have won the America’s Cup will now all be on display.  I’ll be interested to see what they’ve done with NZL 60’s livery etc... when she was sitting up at YDL, she was just a black hull.  Needs the sponsors and silver ferns back in place!

 

Awesome news.  Very excited to see what they do with her. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

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9 hours ago, DohaNZ said:

I knew you’d be excited! :D

It’s great news.  The three New Zealand boats which have won the America’s Cup will now all be on display.  I’ll be interested to see what they’ve done with NZL 60’s livery etc... when she was sitting up at YDL, she was just a black hull.  Needs the sponsors and silver ferns back in place!

 

It was unwrapped this morning. Looks pretty true to its previous self. 

007AE44A-1890-4692-B0A6-1F484A60F70C.jpeg

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5 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

It was unwrapped this morning. Looks pretty true to its previous self. 

007AE44A-1890-4692-B0A6-1F484A60F70C.jpeg

Awww brilliant.  And I saw a vid yesterday which showed the keel, complete with 2000-era flames!

(I’m guessing it’ll be a fake keel, like NZL-32s at the Maritime Museum?)

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10 hours ago, pusslicker said:

Does anybody know what the white boat with dark bottom paint is in the bottom picture?

Gorn FRANTIC!!! assumed in the linked thread that it is the Desafio boat, which had its keel eaten by electrolysis and then capsized in its marine berth.
I was asking that question too.

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8 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

Gorn FRANTIC!!! assumed in the linked thread that it is the Desafio boat, which had its keel eaten by electrolysis and then capsized in its marine berth.
I was asking that question too.

Ahh. I forgot about that one. Thanks!

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7 hours ago, Wolkenzug said:

No I don´t think so. 

The two Desafio boats were lying on the breakwater at the harbour for the past years until the breakwater was cleaned up. 

Must be another boat. 

Bildschirmfoto_2020-08-04_um_21_52_49.png

Bildschirmfoto 2020-08-04 um 21.50.35.png

Right. It does look older. Like '95.

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Sad part of this thread is to see the scattered rotting skeletons of campaigns past that represent the odd $billion or two lost to the breeze.

Unlike the 12m class which remains very active and well supported. 

Maybe a message for the future re sustainability of AC racing.

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On 8/4/2020 at 3:35 AM, pusslicker said:

Does anybody know what the white boat with dark bottom paint is in the bottom picture?

It’s not this old display/tourist boat, is it?  Just with all the livery stripped off

 

 

2A561C23-B4C0-4681-8107-04646AB83A74.jpeg

452B0298-FD28-41AC-94D6-FEDCADC8F304.jpeg

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On 8/1/2020 at 12:20 AM, Rennmaus said:

20180922_101239.thumb.jpg.ff4a1e39f5dd86f6faa904ed21dfba78.jpg

 

 

Was just reading an old NY Times article from 2013... talking about the fates of USA17 and Alinghi5.

Seems Ernesto dumped his catamaran on Valencia under the guise of a ‘gift’ to the city!!

 

 

68954CB6-09C9-41A3-A27C-B60643B3D809.jpeg

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5 hours ago, DohaNZ said:

Was just reading an old NY Times article from 2013... talking about the fates of USA17 and Alinghi5.

Seems Ernesto dumped his catamaran on Valencia under the guise of a ‘gift’ to the city!!

Yes, and the "gift" is rotting on that piece of land amidst rubbish just adjacent to the Darsena/F1 track. A sad sight.

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Blows my mind how some billionaires make "gifts" with no endowment or dowery todisplay and maintain. Less than couch cushion change. At least LE has 17 up in his drainage pond.

IIRC LE allegedly is building public  art museums by renovating and enlarging vintage estates in Newport, Nanzenji (Kyoto), Malibu. For years and years, but they never are quite finished or open. Maybe a set of pyramids for immortality?  Lanai and Porcupine Creek are becoming "wellness" retreats aka escape bunkers for the super rich.

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On 6/5/2020 at 11:04 PM, Priscilla said:

Husband and wife J Class style.

yachting-americas-cup-12369782.jpg.2f30b13a87557ea7b1037d268102b28f.jpg

TOM and Phyllis Sopwith doing a Vanderbilt Start. From sailorspeak.com:

"A starting maneuver where a boat heads away from her intended starting point on a broad reach for a pre-determined time, jibes, sails close-hauled, and then arrives at the start line at full speed just as the starting gun is fired. Named for Harold Stirling Vanderbilt, a three-time defender of the America’s Cup. Also known as a timed approach, time on distance approach, timed run or a Vanderbilt approach."

Cheers,

Earl

 

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9 hours ago, Earl Boebert said:

TOM and Phyllis Sopwith doing a Vanderbilt Start.

I generally dislike the whole 'sailor focused' pics, I wanna see the whole boat for the most part but I really love that one.

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16 hours ago, Serge A. Storms said:

CHALLENGE 12 and ENTERPRISE in Portsmouth, RI.  Both still sailing and looking good.  CHALLENGE 12 has a new all-black paint scheme which is pretty slick, although the original livery in 1983 had a cool, if different style.

12s 1.jpg

Hi

Challenge 12 started out white with a red and a blue stripe along her topsides interrupted by her name on both sides in moderately sized lettering. She was repainted a little later white with a single red stripe along her topsides and her name in large black letters on either side. She stayed that way throughout the 1987 campaign (having been bought as a trial horse by the Italians). After one of her refurbishments, I think she wound up pale blue. What you're seeing now is subsequent to her latest extensive refit.

Enterprise started life with a completely white hull. I think she had a number of  colour changes too before her present livery.

Good to see that both these boats are still being enjoyed.

Cheers!

 

Karl

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On 5/21/2020 at 11:28 AM, pusslicker said:

More bad overall management and panic on the part of everybody than one guy though. I don't remember Barker making any huge mistakes on his own.

He made a huge mistake and never won another race. He nearly flipped!

We were on an Oracle photo/PR/chase boat, following the race boats within the course, usually within a couple of boat lengths to leeward. My wife got a shot of the near capsize. We watched as it happened: Barker froze, and someone on the other side of the boat had to grab the helm and wrench it out of Barker's hands. If that other guy had not acted as quickly as he did, the boat would have flipped.

That VERY close call seemed to take Barker completely out of his game. Prior to that close cross, he had been very cool, smooth, fast. After that, the wheels came off: erratic and off the pace.

Of course, after that race, Oracle called a time-out and over the subsequent lay day did a tremendous job of fixing the obvious weakness of their boat: they stiffened the platform considerably, thereby increasing their control while fully foiling.

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7 minutes ago, carcrash said:

He made a huge mistake and never won another race. He nearly flipped!

We were on an Oracle photo/PR/chase boat, following the race boats within the course, usually within a couple of boat lengths to leeward. My wife got a shot of the near capsize. We watched as it happened: Barker froze, and someone on the other side of the boat had to grab the helm and wrench it out of Barker's hands. If that other guy had not acted as quickly as he did, the boat would have flipped.

That VERY close call seemed to take Barker completely out of his game. Prior to that close cross, he had been very cool, smooth, fast. After that, the wheels came off: erratic and off the pace.

Of course, after that race, Oracle called a time-out and over the subsequent lay day did a tremendous job of fixing the obvious weakness of their boat: they stiffened the platform considerably, thereby increasing their control while fully foiling.

Hasn't ETNZ won the next race?

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7 hours ago, carcrash said:

He made a huge mistake and never won another race. He nearly flipped!

We were on an Oracle photo/PR/chase boat, following the race boats within the course, usually within a couple of boat lengths to leeward. My wife got a shot of the near capsize. We watched as it happened: Barker froze, and someone on the other side of the boat had to grab the helm and wrench it out of Barker's hands. If that other guy had not acted as quickly as he did, the boat would have flipped.

That VERY close call seemed to take Barker completely out of his game. Prior to that close cross, he had been very cool, smooth, fast. After that, the wheels came off: erratic and off the pace.

Of course, after that race, Oracle called a time-out and over the subsequent lay day did a tremendous job of fixing the obvious weakness of their boat: they stiffened the platform considerably, thereby increasing their control while fully foiling.

The engineers calculated that the boat was within half a degree of ending up with the rig in the water...

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On 8/12/2020 at 3:39 PM, carcrash said:

He made a huge mistake and never won another race. He nearly flipped!

Uhhhh, no...

The near capsize happened in Race 8. The Kiwis were up 6-0 on the scoreboard after this race and went on win races 10 and 11. OTUSA went on to call the now infamous time-out after race 11 and ran the table...

Final Tally 9-8 OTUSA... 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi All

When Alan Bond challenged again in 1977, he did so via the Sun City Yacht Club. Today, the yacht club still there - rusting tin shed and all. It's still active - lots of dinghy sailing happening.

The complex that served as the base for Bond's twelves is still there, but now it more used for boat maintenance operations. Before Southern Cross was sold to be converted into a charter cruiser (in 1982), she sat forlorn and forgotten for a few years on a cradle next to the big shed originally built to conceal her from prying eyes.

By the early '80s, Yanchep had been sold to Japanese interests (Tokyu Corporation). A marine park ("Atlantis Marine Park") was built there as part of a strategy to develop Yanchep into a tourist destination. However things never really took off and a national airline pilots' strike in the late '80s was the death knell. The marine park closed down and was demolished in the early '90s. Since then, Yanchep has been a sleepy backwater.

Of the twelves that Alan Bond used to own and keep at Yanchep:

KA-1 (Gretel): After her time at Yanchep, she was sold and converted into an ocean racer and did at least one Sydney-Hobart before winding up as a charter yacht in Queensland (Whitsundays). She is currently in poor condition and sitting on a hard cradle in Germany awaiting a saviour to rebuild her.

KA-3 (Gretel II): She was sold to Gordon Ingate and was completely redesigned and rebuilt for the 1977 Americas Cup. She was used for training with Australia II and Challenge 12 in Melbourne for the run up to the 1983 Americas Cup challenge. After a time in Sydney, she was sold and freighted to New Zealand and refurbished (including an engine and electric winches). She is back in Sydney now being day-sailed. Although in excellent condition, she is probably no longer a twelve metre yacht.

KA-4 (Southern Cross): Having been beaten 4-0 by Courageous in the 1974 Americas Cup, she was used as a trial horse for the 1977 challenger Australia. Once that was finished, she was hauled out and forgotten. She was eventually sold to be converted into a charter yacht in 1982. Her cockpits were decked over, a coach house installed and her gunwales were raised about 6 inches with a bulwark. She still had her old mast, but the boom was raised (so the mainsail was smaller) and a furling jib was fitted. Eventually her mast was replaced (it's now a flag pole at a marina at Airlie Beach in Queensland). She is very active as a charter yacht in the Whitsundays area but is now virtually unrecognisable as the yacht that campaigned in 1974.

KA-5 (Australia): She challenged via Sun City Yacht Club in 1977 and was beaten 4-0 by Courageous. She was modified and challenged again in 1980 via Royal Perth Yacht Club. Helped by a bendy mast, she took one race off Freedom before going down 4-1. She was bought by Peter de Savary and renamed Temaraire and was used as a trial horse in the development of his 1983 challenge. She was then bought by Syd Fischer and renamed Australia and used as a trial horse for his 1987 Steak 'n Kidney defense campaign. During this time, her deck was updated. She was then sold on with Steak 'n Kidney to be used as a chartered day-sailer. Having passed through a number of owners up and down Australia's East Coast, she is now in Sydney in reasonable condition.

Cheers!

 

Karl

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15 hours ago, Ĺudicrous said:

Bondy brought 20,000 acres and built Yanchep Sun City. It was Southern Cross training base and was going to be where the AC would be held once she won. 

images.jpeg-1.jpg

I remember visiting Yanchep in '75. Couldn't believe anyone would build a town on sand dunes. I'm surprised it's still there, frankly.

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