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Dear Gougeon Brothers...


thereefgeek

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Since you are a forum sponsor here on SA, I figured I'd get a quicker response than if I e-mailed you directly through your website.

 

Allow me to preface this post by stating that I am an ardent user of your epoxy products. In the midst of a total re-fit of my 1977 Tayana 37, I chose your products over other readily available resin systems for the typical DIY boat fixer. 105 resin, 205 or 206 hardener (depending on temperature), as well as all the different thickeners you sell, depending on the application. G/Flex and G/5 also have their place in my arsenal of repair products, and more recently, Six10 has been added to my list of favorites. I've literally gone through at least a half dozen gallons & quarts of resin and hardeners, possibly more. I also purchase copious amounts of your syringes, spreaders, mixing sticks, and mixing pots. Which leads me to the point of my post...

 

Recently, in the last several months, is appears as though you've gone through some manufacturing changes in your 16 & 32 oz. mixing pots. The plastic feels thinner than the older cups that I still (re)use, and the cured resin no longer "pops" from the cup with a quick "flex" as it did in years past. Instead, after one use the pots crack while the cured resin stays intact, rendering the pot completely useless. Throw away garbage at $1.50 each. Granted, They only cost me about $0.70 each through Port Supply, but still, c'mon man. One use epoxy cups for $0.70 each? I can buy a bag of 40 Solo brand throw-away cups at the grocery store for $2.50. I used to get about six to ten uses out of each mixing pot. Now I get one. In my current fiberglass project, I estimate that I've tossed at least a dozen "re-usable" West-System mixing pots after only one use. None the less, the mixing sticks and spreaders are still good, and the epoxy "pops" right off after a little flexing. How come the mixing pots that you are now selling DO NOT perform in the same manor?

 

Please enlighten me as to the reason you have decided to change the quality of your mixing pots over the past several months. Is it economics? Is it cheaper for you to manufacture thinner, less resilient mixing pots? Is it more profitable to sell us one-use mixing pots in the hope that we continue to purchase more when our old ones die?

 

I'd love to hear what other members have to say, but especially the employees of West System who read and respond to these posts in the Fix It Anarchy forum. After spending $60 per gallon on resin and $25 a quart on cure, $0.70 may not seem like a lot of money. But on a 1-off boat project like I'm doing, it certainly adds up. Especially at the rate of my consumption.

 

I'm pretty sure that in the near future you're going to hear some bitching & moaning from the commercial boat yards that you supply. They purchase way more of your stuff than I do. I just hope you go back to the old mixing pots. I'm more likely to continue to use your resin system as long as the "support products" continue to perform the way that they used to...

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If you can buy 105 for $60, you got nuthin to bitch about - here it's more than twice that.

 

Buy graduated Dixie cups for measuring and start eating yogurt for the big cups.

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A nearby Restaurant supply has some great cups

 

But be careful about wax!!!!

 

Virtually all automotive paint shops sell various mix cups

 

Anywhere paint is mixed and sold, you will find mix cups and some are really inexpensive.

 

In my world, everything is viewed as a potential mix cup :

Yogurt quarts, ice cream pints, pint and quart milk bottles , beer cans, soup cans , shampoo bottles, coffee cans

 

 

Back on subject

The older I get, the more annoyed I become at products with the same name that, because of some change, no longer serve my purposes as well

When the product is something for which my use is not that for which the item is advertised and labeled I am less annoyed but

 

When the product becomes less effective for its intended use, I can be quite pissed and do thing such as start threads similar to this one.

 

 

The very last article I wrote for the last Laser Sailor I edited was about yet another new drain plug design. As of 2002 I was carrying nine different spare drain plugs so I could supply friends with one fitting each of the various designs used by the various manufacturers.

For a guy who claims to be a liberal, I sure hate change

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Reef Geek, I have not expereinced this yet, but then again I'm still stocked on old mixing pots - HOWEVER, first of all thank you for this feedback from the field. While I have no juice to run this concern to ground, I have reached out and forwarded your post to the President of Gougeon Brother's.

 

If you feel comfortable, please PM me your contact information, and I will pass that on as well so someone can contact you directly.

 

In the interim , has anyone else experienced this? Please sing out ... the goal of any manufacturer is to make thier product as least annoying as possible ;)

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...

In the interim , has anyone else experienced this? Please sing out ... the goal of any manufacturer is to make thier product as least annoying as possible ;)

 

Yes, my last order of cups seem to be single use as well.

 

I used to expect 5-6 used per.

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My wife eats lots of cottage cheese; saves containers for me to mix in. Good for a couple, three uses if you don't leave too much in the bottom.

 

For smaller jobs, she gives me yogurt cups. They are generally single use, but essentially free, so ....

 

Maybe if I ate cottage cheese and yogurt, I'd have enough cups and could stay as trim as she does.

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...

In the interim , has anyone else experienced this? Please sing out ... the goal of any manufacturer is to make thier product as least annoying as possible ;)

 

Yes, my last order of cups seem to be single use as well.

 

I used to expect 5-6 used per.

 

Not quite single use but the cups aren't near as durable as before.

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Since I am the forum troll from GBI, when Vegas contacted our President he asked me to jump in - so here goes.

 

We noticed the change a couple months ago in house and immediately started to track down what happened so we could correct it. The cups we currently sell are custom molded and we continue to be in intense negotiation with that manufacturer to figure this out. We are also looking at other options and other suppliers. I know this is a genuine PITA but the reality is these cups are going to be out in the world for a while longer.

 

The nice thing about the cups is the flat bottom and square corners that make it easy to scrape the sides and bottom to make sure all the resin and hardener get thoroughly mixed. Still, they should not be so brittle that you can't get multiple uses from them. Rest assured this will be fixed very soon.

 

In the mean time, as has been suggested here and as I do at home - clean your yogurt, butter, cottage cheese plastic containers - they make pretty good multi-use cups. You need to be a little more vigilant about scraping the sides and bottom since the bottoms are not usually flat and the corners are round. A good technique is to use the rounded end of our mixing sticks - it fits into the shape of these food type of cups.

 

Sorry for the inconvenience caused by this issue.

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If you can buy 105 for $60, you got nuthin to bitch about - s.

 

 

yeah really, I'd like to know that source... automotive paint supply has great mixing cups.. I think I'm paying .50 for a quart range.. though I've moved on to clear plastic short solo cups when my batch size has gotten smaller..

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I've used Gougeoun for over 30 years. I've never liked wasting my money on their mixing pots. They've always been an expensive disappointment.

 

The current greek yogurt rage is the better solution. When Choboni is on sale for 89c at market basket, you can throw out the yogurt and still get a better deal tahn on the WEST cups.

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I've used Gougeoun for over 30 years. I've never liked wasting my money on their mixing pots. They've always been an expensive disappointment.

 

The current greek yogurt rage is the better solution. When Choboni is on sale for 89c at market basket, you can throw out the yogurt and still get a better deal tahn on the WEST cups.

Warning re: Greek yoghurt! The trend is toward squatter, rounder containers than olden times, when stores were able to sell yoghurts w/out the word 'Greek' on the label. Even Tillamook has knuckled under to this trend. They are all riding the Chobani wagon.

 

Upshot is most Greek yogurt containers have wide girths and narrow bases, rendering them dangerously unstable in an epoxy situation. Even resting a mixing stick on the edge may be enuf to tip over the cup and spill its contents. Ask me how I know this.:(

 

BTW, I reserve cat food (6oz) cans or 16oz tomato sauce/pears in light syrup cans for smaller, thickened epoxy batches. Single use, but the metal sheds heat & helps prevent the resin from exotherming in the cup too fast. For some reason, my boat now smells like Turkey and Giblets Dinner.

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Sorry for the rant. Thanks again everyone for the input, and especially, thank you Vegas for forwarding my complaint to the appropriate authorities. Another big thank you epoxymoron for keeping us all updated on your progress with the manufacture of the cups.

 

Needless to say, I save every plastic container that once held food. I'm talking everything from CostCo sized peanut butter pretzels to little flat containers of hummus dip. My wife has been conditioned to ask "Want me to save this?" before she throws out any plastic containers. I even save the little blister packs from Home Depot that the nuts and bolts come in for mixing very small quantity. Biggest issue is that most of the food containers don't have that "flat bottom" so critical to the proper mixing and scraping of 2-part epoxy, especially if you're only doing one or two pumps. F'up the ratio, and you're in for a world of hassle.

 

Mostly, it stems from being up to my elbows in 'glass and epoxy as of late. If I'm laying up a big spread, I may go through 3 or 4 cups in an hour or two. By the time I get back to cup #1, the epoxy has kicked and ready to pop out. Fresh cup for a new mix. After that, cup #2 is ready to pop. And so on… It's not about the money, it's about the convenience. Cups are cheap, and epoxy is expensive (sorry for all you bastards in Canada that pay $120/gallon). It seems trivial, but when you only have 30-40 minutes to work a batch and your mixing reservoir takes a shit on you, it's not too cool.

 

Like I said, I'm pretty well invested in West System for my epoxy needs, and I hope you guys work out the kinks in the near future. Feel free to contact me through my website in my sig line if you'd like further input.

 

Meantime, here's a picture of one of the "old" cups that's been used at least a dozen times. I used it to mix a batch yesterday. 105/206 plus 407 filler to a peanut butter consistency. Popped right out like a muffin in a well greased baking pan, and I plan to use it again today… and tomorrow… and the next day...

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If you can buy 105 for $60, you got nuthin to bitch about

 

 

yeah really, I'd like to know that source...

 

Get yourself a Port Supply account. You'd have a heart attack if you saw the wholesale markup on sailboat shit.

 

Retail is for suckers...

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I've used Gougeoun for over 30 years. I've never liked wasting my money on their mixing pots. They've always been an expensive disappointment.

 

The current greek yogurt rage is the better solution. When Choboni is on sale for 89c at market basket, you can throw out the yogurt and still get a better deal tahn on the WEST cups.

Warning re: Greek yoghurt! The trend is toward squatter, rounder containers than olden times, when stores were able to sell yoghurts w/out the word 'Greek' on the label. Even Tillamook has knuckled under to this trend. They are all riding the Chobani wagon.

 

Upshot is most Greek yogurt containers have wide girths and narrow bases, rendering them dangerously unstable in an epoxy situation. Even resting a mixing stick on the edge may be enuf to tip over the cup and spill its contents. Ask me how I know this. :(

 

BTW, I reserve cat food (6oz) cans or 16oz tomato sauce/pears in light syrup cans for smaller, thickened epoxy batches. Single use, but the metal sheds heat & helps prevent the resin from exotherming in the cup too fast. For some reason, my boat now smells like Turkey and Giblets Dinner.

Good on that! I used a metal can on polyester the other day but it still went off too fast. But that was my fault. Probably would have been even faster in a plastic cup!

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I use the polyethylene mixing cups from lowes or home depot. they are a couple bucks each, but in the past tow years only one has failed to pop the resin out. I tried the dart mixing cups from the restaurant supply, but they melted with epoxy in the pot. the other containers can even tolerate acetone for cleanup or prep work. I have one for epoxy one for acetone and I use old soup cans for polyester and vinylester, throw away one use.

 

Anybody got a good source for multi use pot for the other two?

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We have been comparing quart plastic cups recently. Use is polyester resin and gelcoat

 

Most cups are easy to clean on the first use

 

Advantage : cracks WAY too easily. Few survive for a third use.... Bought from Austin Lacquer

Fifty cents wasn't a deal

 

tasco: just bought ten. No results yet but they feel like good ones.... Tasco. Didn't look at price . I was buying a drum of acetone.

 

Encore mix n measure : thin walls but working well for multiple uses Walmart ?? 87cents

 

Dannon Yoplait we got multiple uses from each. Not as handy as dedicated paint cups as they have no measuring lines.... Yogurt costs $2

 

HEB sherbet: fabulous mixing cups. Haven't ruined one yet

 

25 paper soup cups from the restaurant supply where we also found great aprons and little cups like you use to get ketchup at Wendy's or mcDonalds . but 2 oz size... 25 cents each but single use bothers my sense of landfill abuse

 

 

The cups we bought at Home Depot lasted pretty well but cost over a buck and the Wslmart cups did just as well

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the little plastic containers that the colored electrical tape comes in at Home Despot and Lowes are great for small batches..

i've got 10 or 15 of em that have been in the rotation for a few years. probably 10-15 uses each..

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I nominate this for the combination of most ridiculous story and most abject demonstration of lack of customer respect I've seen in a long time:

The cups we currently sell are custom molded and we continue to be in intense negotiation with that manufacturer to figure this out. We are also looking at other options and other suppliers. I know this is a genuine PITA but the reality is these cups are going to be out in the world for a while longer.

Sure, we get that you believe we're stupid, and that negotiating a deal for a trivial bit of plastic is apparently a stretch for The Brothers Gougeon - but was it really necessary to explain to us that your reality is to be a pain in our collective asses for "a while longer" than the "couple of months" it's already been?

 

Thanks for recommending that we "clean your yogurt, butter, cottage cheese plastic containers", trust me when I say this is exactly what we've come to expect from manufacturers today. The reminder to "be a little more vigilant about scraping the sides and bottom" is also truly appreciated. It lets your customers really understand the depth to which you care about the products we buy from you.

 

Keep up the good work ...

 

A new MAS customer

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Given that the handy metering pumps make it easy for people to use any container, I'm trying to understand why anyone would purchase purpose-made PLASTIC cups when you can reuse containers which otherwise would just end up as more crap in the landfills. AFAIC, les Gougeon should take the cups off the market entirely

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As an industrial coatings (epoxy paint, two part poly's, thermal coatings ect) guy in real life, I have something to say..

I can see where TheReefGuy is coming from and understand his pain, but you gotta move on. MAnufactures don't get many chances with me and if it's a shit product I'll source it elsewhere. With that said, I also never put much stock in consumables from ANY manufacture. Chip brushes, mixing pots, stir sticks, all tend to vary and in all honesty I don't know why you'd want to reuse pots anyway. Throw them out, they're shot. One, MAYBE two uses if you didn't scratch the shit out of em, and they are toast. I use bamboo stir sticks from a local auto paint supply store, plastic pots from a local hardware store, and chip brushes from Harbor Freight and I've never had a problem in my work that couldn't be traced back to me or my prep work.

I understand that industrial coatings is vastly different than marine but there isn't much I'd vary in my normal procedure going from work to boat.

I re-use as little as possible, if something goes wrong, you really dont want to trace it back to something trivial. Dont be cheap, this is all part of the overall cost of the project.

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On what figgy says, an example of learning to suck it up in the cost is tipping off a 2 part paint. If you want good results, you need top quality "badger" hair brushes (chip brushes shed--that is not acceptable---). And no, you aren't to expect to be able to reuse them. Yes, that's a $50 brush you just threw out. It's a very small part of the $2,000 worth of paint and $$$$ worth of labor....

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Meantime, here's a picture of one of the "old" cups that's been used at least a dozen times. I used it to mix a batch yesterday. 105/206 plus 407 filler to a peanut butter consistency. Popped right out like a muffin in a well greased baking pan, and I plan to use it again today… and tomorrow… and the next day...

 

The amount of epoxy left unused in that photo costs more than the cup. My dad always taught me to have some honey-do items lined up, bare wood to be coated, or fillets to be made to use any leftovers. When the cup is scraped clean it is hard to remove all traces of hardened resin for the next use, so I go with disposable cups.

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I nominate this for the combination of most ridiculous story and most abject demonstration of lack of customer respect I've seen in a long time:

The cups we currently sell are custom molded and we continue to be in intense negotiation with that manufacturer to figure this out. We are also looking at other options and other suppliers. I know this is a genuine PITA but the reality is these cups are going to be out in the world for a while longer.

Sure, we get that you believe we're stupid, and that negotiating a deal for a trivial bit of plastic is apparently a stretch for The Brothers Gougeon - but was it really necessary to explain to us that your reality is to be a pain in our collective asses for "a while longer" than the "couple of months" it's already been?

 

Thanks for recommending that we "clean your yogurt, butter, cottage cheese plastic containers", trust me when I say this is exactly what we've come to expect from manufacturers today. The reminder to "be a little more vigilant about scraping the sides and bottom" is also truly appreciated. It lets your customers really understand the depth to which you care about the products we buy from you.

 

Keep up the good work ...

 

A new MAS customer

 

oh if you only knew...

be thankful for the response and honesty.

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Bullshit guys. It ain't about the amount of epoxy I waste from batch to batch, and if I do, so the fuck what? Someone mentioned having a pristine mixing cup for each use. Bullshit also. Waste of time and money (and I fucking hate yogurt)... I'm talking about support products from a resin manufacturer, and so far, I haven't found a flat bottom yogurt cup that performs the same way as the West cups. Unfortunately, the West cups no longer perform like they used to. Especially not at $1.50 each, off the shelf at WM.

 

Yogurt and butter cups suck for mixing epoxy, as do hummus and Frito dip containers, which is total irony. It's as if God is laughing at me. When I'm scraping the sides of the chip-dip container with a triangular tortilla chip, nothing pisses me more than a round-bottom dip container. I have to nibble off the corners of the chip in order to scrape out the last little bit of dip. It's like chip-dip purgatory, and I'm not even Catholic. It's even worse when mixing epoxy that you find out after the fact that you didn't quite get all the resin scraped off the corners of the cup, and your shit is sitting there refusing to gel in a timely manor.

 

I'm glad the boys from West are happy to provide alternative suggestions as to the vessels in which we mix our goo until which time they get the shit sorted out on their end. Maybe, they can discontinue manufacturing mixing pots altogether, while we all take up yogurt eating as a hobby. Jesus, I hope not...

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Bullshit guys. It ain't about the amount of epoxy I waste from batch to batch, and if I do, so the fuck what? Someone mentioned having a pristine mixing cup for each use. Bullshit also. Waste of time and money (and I fucking hate yogurt)... I'm talking about support products from a resin manufacturer, and so far, I haven't found a flat bottom yogurt cup that performs the same way as the West cups. Unfortunately, the West cups no longer perform like they used to. Especially not at $1.50 each, off the shelf at WM.

 

Yogurt and butter cups suck for mixing epoxy, as do hummus and Frito dip containers, which is total irony. It's as if God is laughing at me. When I'm scraping the sides of the chip-dip container with a triangular tortilla chip, nothing pisses me more than a round-bottom dip container. I have to nibble off the corners of the chip in order to scrape out the last little bit of dip. It's like chip-dip purgatory, and I'm not even Catholic. It's even worse when mixing epoxy that you find out after the fact that you didn't quite get all the resin scraped off the corners of the cup, and your shit is sitting there refusing to gel in a timely manor.

 

I'm glad the boys from West are happy to provide alternative suggestions as to the vessels in which we mix our goo until which time they get the shit sorted out on their end. Maybe, they can discontinue manufacturing mixing pots altogether, while we all take up yogurt eating as a hobby. Jesus, I hope not...

 

Well, you could improve thing a bit by shopping around. Two minutes turns up pots at $0.92 each. http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|10918|2259972|2259994&id=12523 There, I've saved you 35% in the twinkling of your glass eye. You may find even better prices if you look.

 

I think Worst Marine has been ripping you off, and you're trying to blame West Systems for that too? They say they're working to fix the quality problem, but it isn't going to happen today or tomorrow. That's reality. Cope until they can get it right. Or visit Walmart, like Gov suggested. Or maybe Home Depot or Lowes.

 

Back in the day, everyone in Annapolis referred to Fawcetts as "Tiffany's." If you said you were stopping at "Tiffany's," everybody in town knew exactly where to find you. But there wasn't any Defender in those days and no internet. If you're still pissed about the prices at the contemporary version of "Tiffany's," it's your own damned fault.

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Back in the day, everyone in Annapolis referred to Fawcetts as "Tiffany's." If you said you were stopping at "Tiffany's," everybody in town knew exactly where to find you. But there wasn't any Defender in those days and no internet. If you're still pissed about the prices at the contemporary version of "Tiffany's," it's your own damned fault.

 

Wow, I haven't heard that in years! Memories...

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Watch out for the high sugar content of some yogurt, even the Greek stuff, especially if it has fruit in it. Bull City would not want you to become obese in your quest for free mixing cups.

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Reef Geek, I have not expereinced this yet, but then again I'm still stocked on old mixing pots - HOWEVER, first of all thank you for this feedback from the field. While I have no juice to run this concern to ground, I have reached out and forwarded your post to the President of Gougeon Brother's.

 

If you feel comfortable, please PM me your contact information, and I will pass that on as well so someone can contact you directly.

 

In the interim , has anyone else experienced this? Please sing out ... the goal of any manufacturer is to make thier product as least annoying as possible ;)

For the $$ involved in time and materials, why try and save a few cents on a mixing pot?

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Since I am the forum troll from GBI, when Vegas contacted our President he asked me to jump in - so here goes.

 

We noticed the change a couple months ago in house and immediately started to track down what happened so we could correct it. The cups we currently sell are custom molded and we continue to be in intense negotiation with that manufacturer to figure this out. We are also looking at other options and other suppliers. I know this is a genuine PITA but the reality is these cups are going to be out in the world for a while longer.

 

The nice thing about the cups is the flat bottom and square corners that make it easy to scrape the sides and bottom to make sure all the resin and hardener get thoroughly mixed. Still, they should not be so brittle that you can't get multiple uses from them. Rest assured this will be fixed very soon.

 

In the mean time, as has been suggested here and as I do at home - clean your yogurt, butter, cottage cheese plastic containers - they make pretty good multi-use cups. You need to be a little more vigilant about scraping the sides and bottom since the bottoms are not usually flat and the corners are round. A good technique is to use the rounded end of our mixing sticks - it fits into the shape of these food type of cups.

 

Sorry for the inconvenience caused by this issue.

Can't fault that for reply, good customer services is always good.

 

But I still rather just use clean pots/buckets each time, maybe its just because I use big mixes most of the time.

 

Thanks for posting,

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Sorry for the rant. Thanks again everyone for the input, and especially, thank you Vegas for forwarding my complaint to the appropriate authorities. Another big thank you epoxymoron for keeping us all updated on your progress with the manufacture of the cups.

 

Needless to say, I save every plastic container that once held food. I'm talking everything from CostCo sized peanut butter pretzels to little flat containers of hummus dip. My wife has been conditioned to ask "Want me to save this?" before she throws out any plastic containers. I even save the little blister packs from Home Depot that the nuts and bolts come in for mixing very small quantity. Biggest issue is that most of the food containers don't have that "flat bottom" so critical to the proper mixing and scraping of 2-part epoxy, especially if you're only doing one or two pumps. F'up the ratio, and you're in for a world of hassle.

 

Mostly, it stems from being up to my elbows in 'glass and epoxy as of late. If I'm laying up a big spread, I may go through 3 or 4 cups in an hour or two. By the time I get back to cup #1, the epoxy has kicked and ready to pop out. Fresh cup for a new mix. After that, cup #2 is ready to pop. And so on It's not about the money, it's about the convenience. Cups are cheap, and epoxy is expensive (sorry for all you bastards in Canada that pay $120/gallon). It seems trivial, but when you only have 30-40 minutes to work a batch and your mixing reservoir takes a shit on you, it's not too cool.

 

Like I said, I'm pretty well invested in West System for my epoxy needs, and I hope you guys work out the kinks in the near future. Feel free to contact me through my website in my sig line if you'd like further input.

 

Meantime, here's a picture of one of the "old" cups that's been used at least a dozen times. I used it to mix a batch yesterday. 105/206 plus 407 filler to a peanut butter consistency. Popped right out like a muffin in a well greased baking pan, and I plan to use it again today and tomorrow and the next day...

Why don't you just switch to a slower hardner system? You,re not mixing big volumes by the sound of it, so it seems like the part is small-ish and complex.

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Someone mentioned having a pristine mixing cup for each use. Bullshit also. Waste of time and money

That was me, and I get paid to provide a top quality product. A product failure because I was too cheap to throw down an extra forty cents is unacceptable. A product failure traced back to ANY consumable is unacceptable and there is no excuse for it.

 

I guess this is what separates the pro's from weekend warriors.

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Someone mentioned having a pristine mixing cup for each use. Bullshit also. Waste of time and money

That was me, and I get paid to provide a top quality product. A product failure because I was too cheap to throw down an extra forty cents is unacceptable. A product failure traced back to ANY consumable is unacceptable and there is no excuse for it.

 

I guess this is what separates the pro's from weekend warriors.

Exactly my point as well, even the for the 'weekend warriors' the cost of a cup is nothing compared to the cost of materials and time involved, especially if there is an issue and it has to be ground/cut out and done again.

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Forget about the graduated cups and go to the store and purchase a gram scale for cooking. This will save you to extra pump to satisfy the epoxy gods ( and get rid of the air bubbles)! And you can make smaller batches.

 

Doesn't everybody? Much more accurate than pumps and easier than measuring volume.

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Gougeon sells good scales

But they are not as good as they used to be....

WS is investigating why they are not, and will report back soon!....

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I picked up a digital "kitchen" scale at some home supply store for < $10US. It has a glass top, digital read out in g/oz, can handle something like 11 lbs, and has big push buttons, and turns off automagically.

 

I duct tape saran wrap over it to protect it, and use it all the time for epoxy projects -- it's my dedicated epoxy balance. Pumps? Don't need no stinking pumps. . .

 

The duct tape is what makes it all come together.

 

20140712_181405.jpg

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BTW, I reserve cat food (6oz) cans or 16oz tomato sauce/pears in light syrup cans for smaller, thickened epoxy batches. Single use, but the metal sheds heat & helps prevent the resin from exotherming in the cup too fast. For some reason, my boat now smells like Turkey and Giblets Dinner.

 

I'm sure that the empty cat food cans work great for the epoxy, but shit, how do you get past the taste? I'll hang up and listen now.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello everybody - friends and naysayers alike!

 

Just an update on our mixing pots. Again we are very sorry to have annoyed you. We don’t like it either. We are working on it.

 

We have not developed “new” mixing pots. Until recently we would have contended that nothing has changed since their introduction. Same vendor, same molds, same material. Obviously something is wrong and we are working to fix it.

 

We have worked with the injection molder (a local family business) and have identified a few possible causes of our pots being mostly less-than-reusable.

 

1. Mold alignment pins have worn resulting in uneven wall thickness and possible stress concentrations. These have been replaced.

 

2. Mold in need of a good polishing to remove scratches that could allow epoxy to mechanically bond. This has been done.

 

3. “Flame Treating” of finished cups to burnish ejection pin annulus could be polarizing the plastic, again resulting in better epoxy adhesion. This was done to reduce the projection of the ridges from the annulus inside the pot - something we didn't know was happening. They have stopped this practice.

 

4. Change in injection molder’s pellet stock from their supplier. We are digging into this as a minor tweak in pellet stock could drastically reduce toughness. The pots seem more “brittle”/less tough to us. Unfortunately the pellet stock supplier is much less responsive and cooperative then our injection molder.

 

We are currently testing the most recent run of pots injected since these mold revisions have been performed.

 

Please bear with us. The wheels of science and diligence move slowly and we’re really not sure what is going on yet.

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Forget about the graduated cups and go to the store and purchase a gram scale for cooking. This will save you to extra pump to satisfy the epoxy gods ( and get rid of the air bubbles)! And you can make smaller batches.

 

Doesn't everybody? Much more accurate than pumps and easier than measuring volume.

If you're working on (as in aboard) a boat in the water scales may not be reliable.

 

^^^Epoxymoron, that's an impressive report.

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Cheap one time use plastic drinking water cups found in hotels- they're cheap, individually wrapped so every time you use a sterile cup and they're transparent which helps when tinting with transparent/translucent pigments-

 

I reuse mixing pots to clean tools, but when building something, new cups every time, it's faster then picking old resin off the lip, no flakes compromising your clear, and when finished, tossed and done.

 

http://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-9629-translucent-plastic-cup-12sn-12-oz-1000cs.aspx?utm_source=Googlebase&utm_medium=Feed&utm_campaign=Product&utm_term=CUP-TP12&gclid=CPXejr-go8ECFeJF7AodzHEAlQ

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Boatbuilders are all about resourcefulness and creativity - if you have time to write 3 paragraphs about plastic cups, you obviously don't have too many problems.

 

And what about - "One use epoxy cups for $0.70 each? I can buy a bag of 40 Solo brand throw-away cups at the grocery store for $2.50. "

 

He has a whinge, and supplies the solution in the same post ? Its just attention seeking.

 

As a few useful posts have commented - multi-use of mixing containers is just crazy penny pinching since one-use cups are so cheap. If you are that financially strapped, you shouldn't be buying Gougen bros resin.

 

One thing this thread shows is why Gougen bros are so well known in the trade - they actually took the trouble to respond ! I have had personal experience with their personal interest in the use of their product, and I still wear their T-Shirt from the 'care-pack' they sent as a thank you for a concern I raised some years ago.

 

The other useful point from the thread is how useless those expensive mixing pumps are. They work a bit at first, but get gummed up and inaccurate quickly. As commented, premeasuring cups of part A and Part B for a job is the way to go. get ones with lids, so you can seal them for future jobs and save re-measuring again. Considering how hard it is to be accurate about the amount of resin for a job, planning ahead will save you a lot more money than hyperventilating over cheap plastic disposable cups.

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Boatbuilders are all about resourcefulness and creativity - if you have time to write 3 paragraphs about plastic cups, you obviously don't have too many problems.

 

And what about - "One use epoxy cups for $0.70 each? I can buy a bag of 40 Solo brand throw-away cups at the grocery store for $2.50. "

 

He has a whinge, and supplies the solution in the same post ? Its just attention seeking.

 

As a few useful posts have commented - multi-use of mixing containers is just crazy penny pinching since one-use cups are so cheap. If you are that financially strapped, you shouldn't be buying Gougen bros resin.

 

One thing this thread shows is why Gougen bros are so well known in the trade - they actually took the trouble to respond ! I have had personal experience with their personal interest in the use of their product, and I still wear their T-Shirt from the 'care-pack' they sent as a thank you for a concern I raised some years ago.

 

The other useful point from the thread is how useless those expensive mixing pumps are. They work a bit at first, but get gummed up and inaccurate quickly. As commented, premeasuring cups of part A and Part B for a job is the way to go. get ones with lids, so you can seal them for future jobs and save re-measuring again. Considering how hard it is to be accurate about the amount of resin for a job, planning ahead will save you a lot more money than hyperventilating over cheap plastic disposable cups.

 

That's pretty bold for a one-eyed fat newbie. I'm sure Vegas and Epoxymoron will appreciate the praise, but otherwise you're just poking the bear. Your points have already been made up-thread and you're late to the party. Have we seen your offering of tits yet?

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Boatbuilders are all about resourcefulness and creativity - if you have time to write 3 paragraphs about plastic cups, you obviously don't have too many problems.

 

And what about - "One use epoxy cups for $0.70 each? I can buy a bag of 40 Solo brand throw-away cups at the grocery store for $2.50. "

 

He has a whinge, and supplies the solution in the same post ? Its just attention seeking.

 

As a few useful posts have commented - multi-use of mixing containers is just crazy penny pinching since one-use cups are so cheap. If you are that financially strapped, you shouldn't be buying Gougen bros resin.

 

One thing this thread shows is why Gougen bros are so well known in the trade - they actually took the trouble to respond ! I have had personal experience with their personal interest in the use of their product, and I still wear their T-Shirt from the 'care-pack' they sent as a thank you for a concern I raised some years ago.

 

The other useful point from the thread is how useless those expensive mixing pumps are. They work a bit at first, but get gummed up and inaccurate quickly. As commented, premeasuring cups of part A and Part B for a job is the way to go. get ones with lids, so you can seal them for future jobs and save re-measuring again. Considering how hard it is to be accurate about the amount of resin for a job, planning ahead will save you a lot more money than hyperventilating over cheap plastic disposable cups.

 

That's pretty bold for a one-eyed fat newbie. I'm sure Vegas and Epoxymoron will appreciate the praise, but otherwise you're just poking the bear. Your points have already been made up-thread and you're late to the party. Have we seen your offering of tits yet?

Dont mistake Newbie on a website with newbie in the boating world mate. Sure, its been said before - so ?

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That's a nice rant about epoxy cups - except it's completely different from your previous rant about renegotiating and looking at other suppliers. And, of course, the promise that we should "rest assured this will be fixed very soon".

 

They can't both be accurate, so which is fantasy and which is reality ...

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Well Moonduster, I guess I'll put you in the nay-sayer column!

 

The plain simple fact is I didn't have to respond at all and I certainly don't have provide you personally with a detailed explanation of what we're doing to solve what is really a minor problem. Our primary business is to sell the best marine epoxy you can buy and we have been for over 40 years. We sell cups and roller covers and mixing sticks and the like to make using our epoxy as easy as possible for our customers - loyal long time customers and newbies alike.

 

We also pride ourselves on customer service and despite whatever fantasy or reality you inhabit - I defy you to find anyone who outdoes us in that regard. When anyone calls us the first thing you hear is a real, live person - not a automated menu of BS - and you are then immediately transferred to the correct person to answer your question. If you receive faulty pumps or have any other complaint or concern we make it right - right then and there.

 

I would even give a neo maxi zoom dweebie like yourself the same quality service. :-)

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As for the customer focus I will not disagree. Gougeon are top-notch. But in my experience so are MAS. They compete in the marketplace and both have been very helpful. I'd say in fact that both companies have helped me in critically important ways, personally, with my own projects. Gougeon has sent me quite a bit of stuff for free over the years. I think I may still have a small unused leftover quantity of GLR/GLH laminating resin floating around in a box somewhere!

 

As for mixing pots, when needed in quantity, I've bought them from fiberglass supply houses with no trouble. (General, GLS, Fiber glast, evercoat etc etc). Note: I used to be a production manufacturer but other than some new product development work, I do engineering.

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That's a nice rant about epoxy cups - except it's completely different from your previous rant about renegotiating and looking at other suppliers. And, of course, the promise that we should "rest assured this will be fixed very soon".

 

They can't both be accurate, so which is fantasy and which is reality ...

 

  1. You can't fix the problem until you find the problem.
  2. When the problem originates with a supplier, the fix is more elusive and less directly controllable.
  3. Resolution of a supplier problem ALWAYS involves renegotiation of the terms of the relationship, if only to re-emphasize or redefine the paramaters of the relationship. It does not necessarily imply finding a new supplier, although that may be the case.
  4. In working with supplier issues, one's ability to find the problem and eventually fix the problem may not be the supplier's top priority, particularly if you are a small part of the supplier's business. (The number of cups orders by West Systems may seem a large number to many, rest assured that for any successful injection molding house, they are a very small fraction of the annual turnover.)
  5. In manufacturing, solving a problem "very soon" operates on different time frame than the usual sailor's thirst for his next rum.
  6. Based on the responses from Epoxymoron, it seems the West guys are moving at flank speed toward finding and resolving the problem. It's not like General Motors hiding their ignition key tumbler problem for over ten years and fighting like hell to keep it secret. Vegas and Epoxymoron are and have been very up-front with all of us and they and the company don't deserve abuse for keeping us apprised in a difficult and changing situation.

If you got fired from the company and bear resentment, you should be more upfront about your cause. If you're a sock puppet for MAS epoxy, shame on you. Whatever your cause, you've missed the mark here.

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Boatbuilders are all about resourcefulness and creativity - if you have time to write 3 paragraphs about plastic cups, you obviously don't have too many problems.

 

And what about - "One use epoxy cups for $0.70 each? I can buy a bag of 40 Solo brand throw-away cups at the grocery store for $2.50. "

 

He has a whinge, and supplies the solution in the same post ? Its just attention seeking.

 

As a few useful posts have commented - multi-use of mixing containers is just crazy penny pinching since one-use cups are so cheap. If you are that financially strapped, you shouldn't be buying Gougen bros resin.

 

One thing this thread shows is why Gougen bros are so well known in the trade - they actually took the trouble to respond ! I have had personal experience with their personal interest in the use of their product, and I still wear their T-Shirt from the 'care-pack' they sent as a thank you for a concern I raised some years ago.

 

The other useful point from the thread is how useless those expensive mixing pumps are. They work a bit at first, but get gummed up and inaccurate quickly. As commented, premeasuring cups of part A and Part B for a job is the way to go. get ones with lids, so you can seal them for future jobs and save re-measuring again. Considering how hard it is to be accurate about the amount of resin for a job, planning ahead will save you a lot more money than hyperventilating over cheap plastic disposable cups.

 

That's pretty bold for a one-eyed fat newbie. I'm sure Vegas and Epoxymoron will appreciate the praise, but otherwise you're just poking the bear. Your points have already been made up-thread and you're late to the party. Have we seen your offering of tits yet?

Dont mistake Newbie on a website with newbie in the boating world mate. Sure, its been said before - so ?

 

We have our standards and our protocols. We are anarchists, after all.

 

Tits or htfu.

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"That's pretty bold for a one-eyed fat newbie. I'm sure Vegas and Epoxymoron will appreciate the praise, but otherwise you're just poking the bear. Your points have already been made up-thread and you're late to the party. Have we seen your offering of tits yet?

 

Dont mistake Newbie on a website with newbie in the boating world mate. Sure, its been said before - so ?

We have our standards and our protocols. We are anarchists, after all.

"

I am in this for information, discussion and news, not for some wanky, point scoring "anarchist" rubbish. Its so easy to get caught up in cyber-wank, and cyber-ego, and forget the real point of discussion.

Argue my opinions on topics as much as you like, but trying to pull rank based on some digital ego boosting system is just plain pathetic.

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"That's pretty bold for a one-eyed fat newbie. I'm sure Vegas and Epoxymoron will appreciate the praise, but otherwise you're just poking the bear. Your points have already been made up-thread and you're late to the party. Have we seen your offering of tits yet?

 

 

Dont mistake Newbie on a website with newbie in the boating world mate. Sure, its been said before - so ?

We have our standards and our protocols. We are anarchists, after all.

"

I am in this for information, discussion and news, not for some wanky, point scoring "anarchist" rubbish. Its so easy to get caught up in cyber-wank, and cyber-ego, and forget the real point of discussion.

Argue my opinions on topics as much as you like, but trying to pull rank based on some digital ego boosting system is just plain pathetic.

not everyone loves Raymond.

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"That's pretty bold for a one-eyed fat newbie. I'm sure Vegas and Epoxymoron will appreciate the praise, but otherwise you're just poking the bear. Your points have already been made up-thread and you're late to the party. Have we seen your offering of tits yet?

 

Dont mistake Newbie on a website with newbie in the boating world mate. Sure, its been said before - so ?

We have our standards and our protocols. We are anarchists, after all.

"

I am in this for information, discussion and news, not for some wanky, point scoring "anarchist" rubbish. Its so easy to get caught up in cyber-wank, and cyber-ego, and forget the real point of discussion.

Argue my opinions on topics as much as you like, but trying to pull rank based on some digital ego boosting system is just plain pathetic.

 

Okay, I'll be more direct: a well trained parrot can repeat things expressed before. You want constructive discussion and debate, add something new and constructive to the thread. If you want to agree with and ratify a prior post, a simple "+1" post will do that just fine and dandy. So let's see something new and constructive from you if that's your goal.

 

And if you think the (rather warped) stylistic traditions of SA are pathetic, you may be in the wrong place. We all manage to amuse ourselves, individually and collectively, not always quite nicely, thanks. It goes on just about everywhere here; treat it as "rubbish" and you may not care too much for the result. The SA "standards and protocols" are pretty much a part of the territory and you're not going to change that. There are other forums that cater to thin skins and humorless individuals. At first glance, it seems you might fit in well in one of those.

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" if you think the (rather warped) stylistic traditions of SA are pathetic" SA "standards and protocols"

 

Nothing quite as funny as people how call themselves 'Anarchists", and have all these 'protocols; and ;standards' reserved for the 'inner sanctum'

 

I have had a lifetime 'little hitlers', and they all sound the same. I am happy in my little info seeking world, and there are plenty of 'non-stylistic', knowledgeable people on this forum to keep me happy.

 

Why don't you just let it go, and go an harass someone who doesn't fit your mould - Mr 'Anarchist'

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" if you think the (rather warped) stylistic traditions of SA are pathetic" SA "standards and protocols"

 

Nothing quite as funny as people how call themselves 'Anarchists", and have all these 'protocols; and ;standards' reserved for the 'inner sanctum'

 

I have had a lifetime 'little hitlers', and they all sound the same. I am happy in my little info seeking world, and there are plenty of 'non-stylistic', knowledgeable people on this forum to keep me happy.

 

Why don't you just let it go, and go an harass someone who doesn't fit your mould - Mr 'Anarchist'

 

Jeez, you don't get a joke when it falls on your head?

 

Still no constructive contribution.

 

Carry on.

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Meantime, here's a picture of one of the "old" cups that's been used at least a dozen times. I used it to mix a batch yesterday. 105/206 plus 407 filler to a peanut butter consistency. Popped right out like a muffin in a well greased baking pan, and I plan to use it again today… and tomorrow… and the next day...

 

The amount of epoxy left unused in that photo costs more than the cup. My dad always taught me to have some honey-do items lined up, bare wood to be coated, or fillets to be made to use any leftovers. When the cup is scraped clean it is hard to remove all traces of hardened resin for the next use, so I go with disposable cups.

+1 for the lets use the rest of the batch on this whatever house or boat etc project.

 

Fun read.

 

I always harbored the idea I was a cheapo for reusing the cups... I get them from here, http://www.uscomposites.com/containers.html and bought a load so do not know if they are now different...I mix and use and before next job, just work the cup until the stuff pops out with the scrim.

 

I guess we are all doing the same things in different places together.

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  • 4 months later...

post-22771-0-16921200-1425502908.jpg

 

Hi Everybody!

 

I am happy to report we have solved the brittle mixing pot issue and have been shipping the new, improved cup for close to a month now. Hopefully, the supply pipeline has been (mostly) purged of the offending cups. I want to thank you all for your comments whether supportive, indifferent, helpful or bad – thereefgeek in particular for starting the discussion. The one thing I hope you all will take from the discussion is the fact that all of us at Gougeon Brothers, Inc. are obsessed with your success in every project. When a customer chooses to spend his or her hard earned dollars on West System products they WILL work as designed or we will find out what went wrong and then make it right! For those that might not know we are an ISO 9001-2008 company - which means our quality control systems are documented and audited. We take customer satisfaction seriously. We have reworked the injection molds to provide more uniform wall thickness, ceased flame treating the ejection pin ridges and narrowed the supply chain on the quality of the feedstock. We think these changes should ensure super-duper mixing pots for the next 30 years, or so.

 

We would like to offer each and every one of you that took the time to comment in the original thread (http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=160301 ) a dozen new 16 oz. mixing pots at no cost. Zip, Zilch, Nada. It’s our way to say thanks to our sailing friends on SA. In order to make that happen, we need to know who and where to ship the mixing pots to, so if you are one of the eligible 30 people (yes Dorothy, I made a list) please send me a private message with your name and shipping address. Once I have your info I will ship you your new, improved mixing cups with our compliments and our thanks.

 

BTW – Moondust, this includes you too!

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Well that's some customer service for you! I should have responded before to get those free mixing pots!

 

Hey epoxy I had a chuckle when I read your interests. Seems like every good fiberglass, paint, body shop guy or chick is all tatted up! Is that a job requirement for you guys? :lol:

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Well Moonduster, I guess I'll put you in the nay-sayer column!

 

The plain simple fact is I didn't have to respond at all and I certainly don't have provide you personally with a detailed explanation of what we're doing to solve what is really a minor problem. Our primary business is to sell the best marine epoxy you can buy and we have been for over 40 years. We sell cups and roller covers and mixing sticks and the like to make using our epoxy as easy as possible for our customers - loyal long time customers and newbies alike.

 

We also pride ourselves on customer service and despite whatever fantasy or reality you inhabit - I defy you to find anyone who outdoes us in that regard. When anyone calls us the first thing you hear is a real, live person - not a automated menu of BS - and you are then immediately transferred to the correct person to answer your question. If you receive faulty pumps or have any other complaint or concern we make it right - right then and there.

 

I would even give a neo maxi zoom dweebie like yourself the same quality service. :-)

I just finished glassing in some stringers on some lazerette hatches, and have also just got done using West Systems for glueing some small wooden cleats under my floor for some wooden hatches to sit on. I also just used some West Systems last weekend to glue some brick back on to the outside of my Koi pond. All of these times, I walked away saying that jeeze, its nice to have a product as fantastic as West Systems epoxy that just works so, so well! I also save up on yogurt cups, and they work just fine. So, to the SA troll on board here from West Systems, I say a heart felt thank you for one of the best products on the face of the planet, that works perfectly, time and time again!

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Fuckin' A man. Sweet deal.

 

Thanks again Bruce for contacting me, and working so hard to resolve this issue. Props to the Gougeon Bros. Yogurt cups just plain suck, and hummus dip containers fair no better when it comes to scraping sides and bottoms in order to thoroughly mix 2-part resins. Your flat-bottomed mixing pots are just the ticket for doing what we need to do, and I'm glad to hear you got them fixed.

 

Not everyone is a cheapskate like me, and most are willing to chuck a pot when they're done mixing epoxy. That, however gets a bit spendy when you're whipping out 4-6 batches at a time, at 10-12 pumps per batch. Laying up glass cloth with epoxy gets expensive, but when you start adding in the price of the cups you're using to mix...

 

Glad to hear you guys have worked out all the issues with the manufacturing process of the cups and I look forward to giving them a test drive here in the very near future.

 

I just finished laminating a new bowsprit and Samson posts for my boat, and, of course I used thickened West for the glue-up. I'll let you know how it turns out…..

 

1781.jpg?ver=3

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Now that's customer service. Well done.

 

FWIW I just used some West last weekend to fix my daughter's oboe case.

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Crisis at the wife's medical office. $40,000 optical instrument cover cracked by a blunt force object. Zeiss will pick it up and charge $3,000 to repair the cover and bring it back 2 weeks later.

 

In rides Mambo Kings on his white horse carrying West epoxy system and 400 grit. Et voila, $25 solution to $3,000 problem.

 

Thanks to Gougeon Bros, I will probably get l*id tonight! How many products can say that?

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Crisis at the wife's medical office. $40,000 optical instrument cover cracked by a blunt force object. Zeiss will pick it up and charge $3,000 to repair the cover and bring it back 2 weeks later.

 

In rides Mambo Kings on his white horse carrying West epoxy system and 400 grit. Et voila, $25 solution to $3,000 problem.

 

Thanks to Gougeon Bros, I will probably get l*id tonight! How many products can say that?

 

Only those few products that contain alcohol, I would guess.

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