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So he is proposing a one design 12 meter regatta and he is selling the boats.

I don't think so.

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Ex cup exec but still member of the GGYC AC committee who decided to let RC go to Bermudas .

Am not sure he's still a member of that committee but regardless, hope things work out for the series and that there's an appetite to race in it. As he says, it's a great venue.
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Ex cup exec but still member of the GGYC AC committee who decided to let RC go to Bermudas .

Am not sure he's still a member of that committee but regardless, hope things work out for the series and that there's an appetite to race in it. As he says, it's a great venue.

 

 

Over-regulated, total lack of interest and understanding, NIMBYs, no 'Bay-wide' co-ordination or planning, fog, risk averse, AC concerts!, Homeland 'Security', watch lists, greed, commercialisation, GGYC as eunuch, nepotism and insider deals, conflict of interest, sailor dies - there's no comprehensive review, cheating, IP theft, 'Safety' committee, dinosaur television deals, American commentators, rule tampering, Jones act........

 

Windy* - big deal, just like a 1000 other places on the globe.

 

*and plenty of races still got postponed or cancelled

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Did Ehman get fired from ACEA or what?

 

And I don't think he'll have much luck selling new boats that can only be used competitively in one regatta per year.

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Ex cup exec but still member of the GGYC AC committee who decided to let RC go to Bermudas .

 

You ever stop to consider for a moment Ehman had zero to do with the Bermuda, and was outvoted?

 

I know for a long time TE had nothing to do with what is going on with the AC now, RC won, he was sidelined, is pretty bitter and public about it.

The more interesting question is if GGYC took a club decision and is behaving like a club.

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Come on....April 1st was last month.

 

I love the idea, now to see the execution (if Alinghi and Luna Rossa sign up - doubtful because of the personal disdain they have for TE, one of the biggest assholes in the AC - it might work).

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Ross, yes, if you're trying to evoke the spirit of the AC of yesteryear then it's got to be a development class of some type. 12 meters were cool... and if that size boat ticks the boxes then good stuff, but make it some kind of box rule so there can be some development to trickle down... that was part of the enchantment of the past... the hope that someone would come up with something that I could use on my own boat... kevlar, cuben fiber, wings, hell, even dacron for sails came out of AC iirc!

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Comparing the bay to Freemantle? Ummm, no wave, eh.... Using boats originally designed 60+ years ago? Keeping the hulls one design to contain costs. Sound familiar? So it seems he wants a grand spectacle on a budget in a mediocre setting. Sort of makes me think about the guy who wants to relive his glory years when everyone and everything has moved on......

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Since 12's are by now relatively slow boats, a design race within the 12M rule wouldn't make much sense; and the cost of a design race may also detract from the targeted owners.

 

But it sounds like the concept is still open to ideas and so my suggestion would be to let any 12M participate, whether they have the 1980 Freedom's hull shape or not since that way some existing boats could also race in it.

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Sounds like fun. Good luck to him.

 

He did say the boats would have the same hull shape. Didn't specify appendages and rig though...

 

3-1 mil per team is a lot for a once a year event. But if he could spin this up and sail these boats in Newport and San Diego as well, now that would be cool.

 

WetHog

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Did Ehman get fired from ACEA or what?

 

And I don't think he'll have much luck selling new boats that can only be used competitively in one regatta per year.

 

Ehman was only brought into ACEA to help clean up the Worth and Thompson mess. After AC 34 was over, Coutts made sure Ehman was excused from further participation.

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I imagine he's certainly making the AC traditionalists happy with this. 1MM per year is not uncommon in the Farr / Melges / RC44 traveling team realm, in fact it is low. I'd personally rather see the last gen of AC boats than the 12M, but I expect he's spent some time researching this. But what I'd really like to see is some gorgeous monohulls crossing tacks in SF Bay, be they 12M or IACC boats.

 

How did TFE suddenly become persona non-grata around here? He's been involved in some sense with the AC leadership for more than just a few years. In my opinion, he's got a good idea going here, some traction in the press, and surely some good local support. I'll be interested to see where it goes.

 

I haven't been so happy with the new AC since they moved to Bermuda because:

a) they took it away from their home turf

B) they made the boats smaller and more one design

c) it's not even in the US anymore

d) it just doesn't *feel* like the AC

e) on the last video about their first sail in BER, not a single person interviewed had an American accent, they gave no sense of scope of the racecourse (short cuts, so you couldn't watch how often the boat had to tack to avoid hitting the edges). It seemed like they expected our fascination, but it's become just another boat race.

f) a challenger committee. Seriously?

 

If Tom and his organizing committee make this about Team, Technology, Beauty and Bravado, he will have done a mighty fine job in my book.

 

And having it in SF is just fine by me too.

 

EDIT/Correction: Actually Matt Cassidy was in the vid for 10 sec. with a US accent. Still.

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On the other hand, one could look at it this way. Meh, to each his own.

Comparing the bay to Freemantle? Ummm, no wave, eh.... Using boats originally designed 60+ years ago? Keeping the hulls one design to contain costs. Sound familiar? So it seems he wants a grand spectacle on a budget in a mediocre setting. Sort of makes me think about the guy who wants to relive his glory years when everyone and everything has moved on......

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You often read 12m folks talking about destroying genoas tack, by tack. Have any of the current/historic 12M boats built sails out of 3Di? We're watching VOR boats sail around the world on one set of sails at the moment and while there have been some issues, you wonder how new sail technology would work/fit with old tech boats? I like the idea of a 'new 12M' regatta. The irony is the boat which seems to most closely resemble the 'concept' of what Ehman is talking about - is the RC44. Now what WOULD be cool, is to see the current crop of TP52's make it out of Europe and onto the Bay in San Francisco for a regatta and a winner takes $500K check.

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Freedom's hull shape was fairly modern, and she had the low freeboard that was ruled-out before 1983, so maybe a great platform to start with. DC wanted to use her in '83 until they found out that they lost their grandfather after moving the rudder post. The loss of sail area killed her as a competitive 12m.

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They weigh tons and that adds shitloads of stress, you can't get away from that. The boat doesn't even move when you step on board, lol. That would be some good racing, as long as its an upwind start to a proper race course.

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As a SF Bay sailor and a classic boat racer, I really like the idea of there being an alternative to the AC "gear racing" as someone above called it (no offense to my buddies who make their living racing for Oracle Team USA!). I think that AC has it's place and is a great event, but it doesn't evoke the same emotion in me as a classic yacht.

 

Haven't read through the details yet, but I can say that (1) great venue, and not just my local bias here, but the wind is consistent and strong, and when it gets up to 25+ kts, a great place to be racing really big and heavy, classically built and/or full keel types of monohulls, and (2) very interesting and encouraging to know that there is sufficient interest out there, even if just from a handful of people, in watching and supporting "old school" boats and racing.

 

Maybe I am just an eternal optimist, but I am seeing a resurgence of interest in classic fleets among the "younger" skippers (those of us under 50, more or less), and hope that this trend might continue, as someone needs to keep the spirit of these vessels alive for generations to come.

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I think this is the best "Cup" related news I have heard in a long time. I wish him all the best with it. The thought of watching a tactical duel and the spectacle of 12's crossing tacks and fighting for room at the marks. The dial ups in the pre start and the luffing contest to see who can really handle the boat.

 

Yep. I'm in. Definitely would love to see that. Bring it!!!

 

WL

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Did Ehman get fired from ACEA or what?

 

And I don't think he'll have much luck selling new boats that can only be used competitively in one regatta per year.

 

Ehman was only brought into ACEA to help clean up the Worth and Thompson mess. After AC 34 was over, Coutts made sure Ehman was excused from further participation.

 

Right. He and Barclay sure did a good job cleaning up the mess.

All that profit they distributed to the teams after the event.

The terrific ROI for Ellison on his investment in the TV production, the venue, the ACWS road show...

And the sponsors! Wow, the way they all signed up again for AC35!

 

Of course, now RC will show us how to turn the AC into a major, broadcast TV sports entertainment business.

I hear the promoters of darts and snooker have started to worry, and the Westminster Kennel Club hochos are shaking in their boots.

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Racing heavy slow monos on the city front? <yawn> Pretty boring stuff after watching the AC72s

 

+1

 

Wouldn't it be better to use a box rule (something like to TP52's) which has the opportunity for designers to exploit the rule?

 

At least a modern high performance type of boat would exist and have an after-life once it was at it's used by date.

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It all sounds like a great idea that TE has hopefully researched and lined up supporters for.

 

You'd think the press announcement would include names of some interested potential owners. Yet it doesn't.

 

Sorry but I don't see much indication that SF is a favoured location for those VROs want to go racing, compared to the Carribean, Sardinia etc. Not too sure either that 12Ms have the same appeal as Js, which can have pretty nice facilities for guests.

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I love the idea, but not for OD's, I think it'd be much more interesting on the long run using TP52's or similar...

 

I have lost interest in the AC since they started sailing cats, they're very spectacular but have litte to do with yacht racing. At least for me they don't.

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How did TFE suddenly become persona non-grata around here?

 

I suspect for many there's his role in the story arc that led from AC33 to here, here and now being a place not so many seem very keen on. Not least his narrative presenting Larry/Wussell-Vision as a great moral quest, when it predictably turned out to be ErnieVision in cats.

 

Standing around in the press conference on Andrew Simpson's death with his hands in his pockets certainly didn't endear him to me.

 

There was the overweening arrogance of remarks he made here one Christmas giving his blessing for us to comment, responsibly, on the AC.

 

Personally I've a long memory. I remember very much looking forward to the most spectacular sailing event ever, as launched by the Mercury Bay YC. Ehman played a significant part in turning what should have been an epic into a farce.

 

But hey, if he can bring this off, good luck to him. I'll believe it when I see it.

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J-Class monsters would bee cool to watch too

 

I would love a modern J class, big fuck off boats, big over hangs.. Kind of like the big boat from 88..

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From 2010 old school TP52 sending it. This is what it would be like on the bay. I really don't think there is a better platform for the AC now that we have shot our multihull wad with a bunch of assholes.

 

Bring back the multiple countries and lots of teams to the AC

 

https://youtu.be/hzoJkupXAqY

 

Thank you for the vid. Brings back crazy memories. I was there and still can't stop laughing watching it!

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From 2010 old school TP52 sending it. This is what it would be like on the bay. I really don't think there is a better platform for the AC now that we have shot our multihull wad with a bunch of assholes.

 

Bring back the multiple countries and lots of teams to the AC

 

https://youtu.be/hzoJkupXAqY

 

Thank you for the vid. Brings back crazy memories. I was there and still can't stop laughing watching it!

 

Yeah well you cant fix the commentary

 

I had it on mute :unsure: . The laughing was out of pure fun.

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The Congregational Cup is BITCHIN in Catalina 37's (<-?)

 

It's nice to see crews/teams working on tactics and sail handling rather than trying not to Explode anything

 

But that's Match Racing = The Dance !!! :)

 

I hope this includes Match Racing if it's a test of People Skills

 

Whole nudder set of Thinking with fleet racing & round the Kanz

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From 2010 old school TP52 sending it. This is what it would be like on the bay. I really don't think there is a better platform for the AC now that we have shot our multihull wad with a bunch of assholes.

 

Bring back the multiple countries and lots of teams to the AC

 

https://youtu.be/hzoJkupXAqY

 

Thank you for the vid. Brings back crazy memories. I was there and still can't stop laughing watching it!

 

 

The MedCup, along with the AC33 shitfight, kept me going during that dark time. There was another race where PC on Artemis comes ripping out of the left side in similar conditions, it was unbelieveable to see how much faster they were going, coming from about 5th to the lead IIRC, They also developed the string drop in the 52's, always dropping it on one side no matter what gybe they were on coming into the mark.

 

I will watch and enjoy the 12's if TE pulls this off, maybe even try to get out there.

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IIRC this whole thing was tried back in 2002 when John Sweeney organized the Sausalito Cup using vintage IACC boats. A lot of hype about how great it wound be and reignite interest in sailing vintage style AC boats in SF. Huge crowds, big name sailors, tight races, TV coverage, blah, blah, blah. Needless to say, it failed. Doing the same thing with 12's isn't going to change the fact that no one gives a crap about watching, let alone spending money on, a bunch of antique slugs. TP52's make much more sense IMO.

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Maybe TE and his Research Team don't give a shithe what some of you SAACers think about the concept?

But keep suggesting why it won't work, I will keep your posts safe so we can look at them in five years from now.

12s, spinnakers, luffing duels, zones, an actual prestart, fleet or match or both (!), Rolex and LV involved instead of Red BS and Coca Kotza, where can I buy the ticket?

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Perfect for a cialis, or viagra sponsorship. Ellison is apparently not the only old man wishing he could extend his vital life. functions.

Really sad...

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TP52's make much more sense IMO.

TP52 would be a non event even for sailors but 100 ft mega yacht would be something.

Even better, a race around an island open to best, fastest yachts in the world, where even AC48 would be invited but would not be able to follow the pace as the AC45F around Belle Ile.

Going back to AC roots would interest me.

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I emailed Tom asking about level of interest and apparently it is among guys from 6 US YC's and 12 international ones. He even listed them.

Maybe he has tapped into something fun, time will tell.

It's a good thing he's got you and your mate clean believing him...if he listed them why don't you?..oh I forgot, he trusts you to spin it up, not us...

 

Funny how those numbers keep jumping out from you...12-18 was your number of challengers for the ac34...

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. Doing the same thing with 12's isn't going to change the fact that no one gives a crap about watching, let alone spending money on, a bunch of antique slugs.

 

Is that so? Depends on the species of slug, possibly, as these guys don't seem to have read the memo.

 

394033_530x.jpg

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. Doing the same thing with 12's isn't going to change the fact that no one gives a crap about watching, let alone spending money on, a bunch of antique slugs.

 

Is that so? Depends on the species of slug, possibly, as these guys don't seem to have read the memo.

 

394033_530x.jpg

 

More crew than spectators. Yep that will work to sell $$$$ watches, luggage and cologne. (And who buys $$$$ watches, luggage and cologne anyway?)

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The level of paranoia in here never ceases to amaze.

 

Just because someone comes up with an idea that will appeal to the vast majority of sailors doesn't mean a end to the multi toys .

 

Don't take it personal that the AC has never been as fucked up since they added a hull, its a coincidence, honest :)

 

There is room for everyone .

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TP52's make much more sense IMO.

TP52 would be a non event even for sailors but 100 ft mega yacht would be something.

Even better, a race around an island open to best, fastest yachts in the world, where even AC48 would be invited but would not be able to follow the pace as the AC45F around Belle Ile.

Going back to AC roots would interest me.

 

nice, amazing no-one has commented on this shaming until now

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IIRC this whole thing was tried back in 2002 when John Sweeney organized the Sausalito Cup using vintage IACC boats. A lot of hype about how great it wound be and reignite interest in sailing vintage style AC boats in SF. Huge crowds, big name sailors, tight races, TV coverage, blah, blah, blah. Needless to say, it failed. Doing the same thing with 12's isn't going to change the fact that no one gives a crap about watching, let alone spending money on, a bunch of antique slugs. TP52's make much more sense IMO.

 

This caters very specifically to rich old guys and rich old clubs, and there are a lot of both who would love an event like this. Will it be some kind of commercially sustainable endeavor? Hell no. But it could be a very strong annual regatta for a demo that's not spending money now out of frustration with a lack of 'their kind of event'.

 

Apples and oranges to that event, which had entirely different goals. Like it or not, there are piles of old guys for whom planing is as anti-yachting as iceboating.

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So it's the Rolex Big Boat series but OD? StFYC members must be wetting their pants with excitement over that as a concept! Guess that's why TE is hanging out there lately.

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It's not AC, TE doesn't work here anymore, they are not 12m that were ever associated with the AC.

Just another ex flunky trying to milk his 'position' into $$$, (ref: IM, the YAC Jungs, etc)

Go away.

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IIRC this whole thing was tried back in 2002 when John Sweeney organized the Sausalito Cup using vintage IACC boats. A lot of hype about how great it wound be and reignite interest in sailing vintage style AC boats in SF. Huge crowds, big name sailors, tight races, TV coverage, blah, blah, blah. Needless to say, it failed. Doing the same thing with 12's isn't going to change the fact that no one gives a crap about watching, let alone spending money on, a bunch of antique slugs. TP52's make much more sense IMO.

This caters very specifically to rich old guys and rich old clubs, and there are a lot of both who would love an event like this. Will it be some kind of commercially sustainable endeavor? Hell no. But it could be a very strong annual regatta for a demo that's not spending money now out of frustration with a lack of 'their kind of event'.

 

Apples and oranges to that event, which had entirely different goals. Like it or not, there are piles of old guys for whom planing is as anti-yachting as iceboating.

Strange days when I find myself agreeing with you. But this is spot on.

Its about the prestige. Classic boat. Respected venue. Established reputable club.

Its not about handbags and watches. Its about bragging rights amongst their peers. Without the R+D millions for a foiling boat they will never get to be on board to race.

They could care less if its spectator friendly. Its an elitist group the doesn't want to rub elbows with the unwashed masses.

It will be a phenomenal success and I think is exactly what is needed to slap the current AC in the face!

 

WL

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The concept is getting a good bit of positive response on the other sailing forums which bodes well for the project.

 

As expected it is not a favorite of the majority here which should guarantee that it will be a huge success :)

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The concept is getting a good bit of positive response on the other sailing forums which bodes well for the project.

 

:)

 

It's chock-full of potential 12M owners over on the main SA forum, so the project is bound to be a success.

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I guess this is the thread for classic sailing. I love this painting of a old mediterranean sailing boat during a storm in the little fishing harbour if St Tropez, 1895, now a tourist place promoted by Brigitte Bardot in the 60s.

 

ad6aedebd80f286e5bc0b18f53e7a547.jpg

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The concept is getting a good bit of positive response on the other sailing forums which bodes well for the project.

 

As expected it is not a favorite of the majority here which should guarantee that it will be a huge success :)

I will be nearly Paddy Ashdown-esque astonished if this doesn't sink without trace.

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Sunglasses on, hands in pockets trying to calm everyone down after the death of Andrew Simpson did it for me. Inexcuseable.

 

As for this 12m series, Clean has a good point that is for rich old blokes with money to spend on nostalgia. But why aren;'t they sailing 12s already? Also, It might not be about Watches and Handbags, but the most traditional NYYC took their money because nobody wanted to pay the $ for the entry.

 

In short summary, Ehman fucked up countless America's Cup series, forcing 2 disastrous DOG matches has now been found out and told to fuck off.

 

Maybe he'll see its a lot harder to run an event that drag it down.

 

 

PS forgot to say- Stringray, you are still a cunt.

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IIRC this whole thing was tried back in 2002 when John Sweeney organized the Sausalito Cup using vintage IACC boats. A lot of hype about how great it wound be and reignite interest in sailing vintage style AC boats in SF. Huge crowds, big name sailors, tight races, TV coverage, blah, blah, blah. Needless to say, it failed. Doing the same thing with 12's isn't going to change the fact that no one gives a crap about watching, let alone spending money on, a bunch of antique slugs. TP52's make much more sense IMO.

 

This caters very specifically to rich old guys and rich old clubs, and there are a lot of both who would love an event like this. Will it be some kind of commercially sustainable endeavor? Hell no. But it could be a very strong annual regatta for a demo that's not spending money now out of frustration with a lack of 'their kind of event'.

 

Apples and oranges to that event, which had entirely different goals. Like it or not, there are piles of old guys for whom planing is as anti-yachting as iceboating.

 

 

Iceboating was the sport of the wealthy dear boy. It is not anti yachting, just as planing is not. You contradict your apples and oranges thought. Yes this old 12M concept is for the older demo and it will succeed, unless the youth producer types get their mitts on it. There is no need for commercial sustainablility. Just as with Clubs, you pay your way. Capital assessments finance the pleasure and to hell with the people trying to make a living from it. Stephen Waring's sketch will not fly even though it is lovely, because it beckons the wrong demographic. The ideal for my demo is J's for AC. You will get to compare the heartbeat in Bermuda as long as you keep an open mind and stop trying to act like a teenager. You are old Clean. Old and starting to worry about your future as you will have a family to support. The young stop liking guys like you trying to emulate them very quickly. You become the butt (as it were) of their jokes. Lose the flip flops in your interviews. Old guys like me just act our age and support youth and their delight with flivvers. LE and RC at least do not dress like beach bums and they do not F bomb their interviews. That is the sign of a kid.....and Snaggie, God bless him.

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More about this non-AC subject on FP

 

new-12-2.png

 

So basically it's an IACC boat below the waterline, a 12m above it. with an IACC deck plan and rig, and a foil package from a model sailboat. I can't tell if this is nostalgia or pandering.

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I have lost touch and understanding the AC in the last year. Bermuda venue.....? changing out the designs down sizing twice, ??? nope I have lost interest.

 

So, would I want to watch this new/ old idea in SF? yes.... would I watch this in RI? yes.... would I watch this in SD, Chicago, yes....personalities, great viewing, restricted one design, exciting, powerful 60' plus racing boats.... sailing skills in one design......a one design that sails 12-15 kts upwind, higher performance sailing. Who cannot deny SF as a great viewing location...its a simple question would you watch it? yep.....hell I'll even fly there to view it.

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I have lost touch and understanding the AC in the last year. Bermuda venue.....? changing out the designs down sizing twice, ??? nope I have lost interest.

 

So, would I want to watch this new/ old idea in SF? yes.... would I watch this in RI? yes.... would I watch this in SD, Chicago, yes....personalities, great viewing, restricted one design, exciting, powerful 60' plus racing boats.... sailing skills in one design......a one design that sails 12-15 kts upwind, higher performance sailing. Who cannot deny SF as a great viewing location...its a simple question would you watch it? yep.....hell I'll even fly there to view it.

 

Somehow I doubt many will when it comes to it. How is this any different from TP52s in Valencia?

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. But why aren;'t they sailing 12s already?

Not to familiar with the 12m ownership scene? Either via ownership or charter, most of the 12's in Newport that are raced fit that criteria.

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so whats different from the TP-52's? Valencia...lots of differences... apples vs oranges

 

 

from my opinion its a USA viewing issue, TP-52 is not "one design" so it's the same very cool, very expensive, grand prix program. I do love the very cool boats.. but 5 new ones in a 8 boat fleet??? i've lost interest

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Still a pretty boat......looks gentle and fragile.....perfect for SF. No majesty to it though. The J's have all the provenance and muscle appropriate to an AC. Why can't there be two AC's? A great 3rd AC would be for the boats that raced before the J's and had the magnificent rigs twice the size of the J's. At this level cost is irrelevant and " commercial sustainability " a concern of dirty trades people........the British Aristocracy knew how to deal with those lesser mortals.

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I think that the pursuit of foiling has taken the Cup in the direction it was always intended. A design competition to see who has the fastest boat.

What TE is proposing is something the foiling boats lack;

The raw power of a monohull struggling to balance the power of the wind vs the drag of the sea.

The complex ballet of a dip pole jibe and all the hazards it entail.

The gamesmanship of hitting the right shift at the right time.

The myriad egos and personalities that come from having a crew of 15-18 SAILORS in each boat.

Its not nostalgia as much as it is a different animal. One that is more easily related to by the sailing masses who have felt that power, seen that ballet, and been in those crew positions

 

WL

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I think that the pursuit of foiling has taken the Cup in the direction it was always intended. A design competition to see who has the fastest boat.

What TE is proposing is something the foiling boats lack;

The raw power of a monohull struggling to balance the power of the wind vs the drag of the sea.

The complex ballet of a dip pole jibe and all the hazards it entail.

The gamesmanship of hitting the right shift at the right time.

The myriad egos and personalities that come from having a crew of 15-18 SAILORS in each boat.

Its not nostalgia as much as it is a different animal. One that is more easily related to by the sailing masses who have felt that power, seen that ballet, and been in those crew positions

 

WL

 

 

Well said .

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I think that the pursuit of foiling has taken the Cup in the direction it was always intended. A design competition to see who has the fastest boat.

What TE is proposing is something the foiling boats lack;

The raw power of a monohull struggling to balance the power of the wind vs the drag of the sea.

The complex ballet of a dip pole jibe and all the hazards it entail.

The gamesmanship of hitting the right shift at the right time.

The myriad egos and personalities that come from having a crew of 15-18 SAILORS in each boat.

Its not nostalgia as much as it is a different animal. One that is more easily related to by the sailing masses who have felt that power, seen that ballet, and been in those crew positions

 

WL

 

 

Well said .

 

+1 .............. remember the speed differentials between two cats can be the same as between two mono's..........top speed versus differentials......top speed doesn't translate on tV or anywhere except the retarded media.........2 knot speed differentials are the same regardless of top speed.......kill the media and bring back racing. Remember the old suggestion of " first kill the lawyers " ???? Now it should be " first, kill the sailing media " .........lovely.

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Get all that but wouldn't cut AC35 short on any of raw power, complex ballet, and massive egos: or cut it short on the eyes-on, onboard immersion.

 

Yes, we don't all drive F1 cars but many of us do admire and fantasize about being at our present time's cutting edge. Rather than a retreat, the AC-money-backed foiling multihull developments relentlessly push the frontiers forward.

 

I'll take full HD immersion, of bleeding edge technology, over low res B&W nostalgia, 99.9% of the time thank you.

 

 

There are plenty of other regattas to follow, that aren't at all the AC.

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Sting,.........not sure what you are saying. I don't disagree with your thoughts on "bleeding edge" but I might point out to you that steam leaks in nuclear subs are fixed with trailing edge technology. Clearly there is much to look upon from every angle. Big time foiling cats are good for increasing top end speeds, but so are every other sort of speed machine. Racing is speed differential not top speed. Speed does not equal AC viability unless you are singularly devoid of any sense or knowledge of history and are of the opinion that history is irrelevant. Remember what happens to those that ignore history. Repetition dear boy. Repetition. Remember AC is a game for billionaires and the likes of you and I and SA are dog shit in that arena. LE et al could agree to race Lasers for the cup and that would be that. That is the failure of the DOG. Anything can be raced if agreed upon by defender and challenger. Thus who gives a flying ukfay at this point. Time for a night time libation paid for by me, not LE etc. Fuck em. I shall sail tomorrow on my lead mine and ignore all this crap. Commercial sustainability????? Fuck em. I won't buy shit from any sponsor. And, I won't go to Bermuda ever again. Sluts. Snaggie Rules!!!! Newport and NYYC are the only entities that should be involved with the AC. Everyone else are cash whores. RC needs to get his penicillin shots forthwith, if they can still stop STD's.

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Get all that but wouldn't cut AC35 short on any of raw power, complex ballet, and massive egos: or cut it short on the eyes-on, onboard immersion.

Yes, we don't all drive F1 cars but many of us do admire and fantasize about being at our present time's cutting edge. Rather than a retreat, the AC-money-backed foiling multihull developments relentlessly push the frontiers forward.

I'll take full HD immersion, of bleeding edge technology, over low res B&W nostalgia, 99.9% of the time thank you.

There are plenty of other regattas to follow, that aren't at all the AC.

The pinots kicked in ....

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. I shall sail tomorrow on my lead mine and ignore all this crap.

 

really? the iconic c&c 43 will leave the dock with you at the helm? unheard of. this must be the end of times. just dont use the head.

 

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Basket do you have anything to contribute to contemplation of the post of Maxmini ? You just seem to lurk and stalk me but add nothing to the thread debate. Are the fumes of your build employment causing you intellectual distress? If so, please see your physician asap. You used to be brighter.......I think.

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Get all that but wouldn't cut AC35 short on any of raw power, complex ballet, and massive egos: or cut it short on the eyes-on, onboard immersion.

 

Yes, we don't all drive F1 cars but many of us do admire and fantasize about being at our present time's cutting edge. Rather than a retreat, the AC-money-backed foiling multihull developments relentlessly push the frontiers forward.

 

I'll take full HD immersion, of bleeding edge technology, over low res B&W nostalgia, 99.9% of the time thank you.

 

 

There are plenty of other regattas to follow, that aren't at all the AC.

I am curious, I know you sail. I know you have raced. But have you ever been on an old lead mine, going downwind in 20+ and feel the raw power and have the hair on the back of your neck sticking out as the crew goes into action for a gybe. Pulling a stern wake that is roaring on the transom like a freight train and watching the driver find the perfect spot in the swells to drive the boat under the chute and through the turn?

Its a feeling that so many can easily relate to. There are very few that can relate to the feeling of foiling. It doesn't mean we don't think its cool or wouldn't jump at the chance. We just have no frame of reference so there is no visceral connection.

You and I used to agree on a lot more on these forums then we do now. But I will still but the first round at the Brown anytime you are in town!! :)

 

WL

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Thanks :)

 

Yes, I get all that and it absolutely is the style of racing/sailing I know and enjoy too.

 

But I am one of those followers who enjoy that the AC is a lot more exotic, more bleeding-edge. It makes it quite different than, separate from, most other sailing series.

 

If they'd run AC72's on SF Bay again I'd be much happier but I guess we have to settle for the new game and see how it works out; or leave it and follow more closely some other events instead, there's nothing at all wrong with making that choice either.

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