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Jimmy Buffet just bought one of ugliest sailboats I have ever seen...


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Panoramix, I could barely concentrate on the heel angle of that boat. I was fixated on the sheer wetness of the ride, which makes a high performance dinghy look dry

 

 

Yeah, look, they had to go stand on the boom to stay out of the waves coming over.

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10 years ago. When involved with many "Lobster Yachts". I thought that a derivative to include the basic hull design with a rig could be interesting; 2008 killed that idea. 

Something relevant? It takes some stones to bad mouth the designs of others, and post your crap on every thread under the sun.   Wow, 20,000 posts and how many decades of nothing relevant from you o

@Rasputin22   ... that's yet another glorious post from you which makes me feel a famine-like hunger for your book. If you die without writing it, I think I'll dig you up and kill you all over ag

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Panoramix, I could barely concentrate on the heel angle of that boat. I was fixated on the sheer wetness of the ride, which makes a high performance dinghy look dry

 

Unless you are sailing inshore on flat water, it is hard to do fast and dry! Foils might be the best answer to fast and (relatively) dry!

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Good point Ed. I was thinking more about hydroptere style foiling.

 

Going back to the original discussion, I imagine that thanks to the shape of her boards, this new Gitana can heel quite a lot and still be relatively efficient.

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Look at the aft cabin overhang on these things and the windows in the cabin tops. The crew stay dry, even when in the cockpit, and the water doesn't stay on the boat- goes right off the stern as fast as it came on.

 

I know aero drag on a sailboat becomes significant at 15 knots of boat speed or so- they tell me that when my tri is doing 20 knots aero is 1.3 of the drag. I suspect the designers on these 60's have worked on resisting the water as little as possible, and if that means some goes over the boat as well as under it, that is ok. I've never liked the idea of sailing while inside, I've found powerboats unpleasant that way, but I get the way these cockpits work, and they make a lot of sense where these boats sail.

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Many years ago, when sailboats did not have engines and freeboard was low but beginning to rise, a lot of old times were worried about wind resistance.

 

Every boat has a wind speed limit above which it can not make progress to windward. Wind drag on the hull and rig are important factors in setting that limit.

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When I see an offshore sailboat with COTB and jerry cans everywhere and fenders hanging from the lifelines, windage in the wrong place is exactly what I think, much less taking a sea aboard. I think an offshore sailboat should have as clean and smooth a deck, hull and rigging as possible.

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Freeboard is slow. When I start a new design one of the first things I do is to see just how low I can make the freeboard. Sometimes, like the old IOR, freeboard bought you a rating advantage so when I did the two tonner HEATHER for the light air of the PNW I have it lots of freeboard and managed t get the rig up an additional foot in the air without taking a rating hit. I figured in light air the freeboard would not hurt me too much. It did work very well. Heather was dominant for three years.

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When I see an offshore sailboat with COTB and jerry cans everywhere and fenders hanging from the lifelines, windage in the wrong place is exactly what I think, much less taking a sea aboard. I think an offshore sailboat should have as clean and smooth a deck, hull and rigging as possible.

 

I think the designer should have figured out that they'd want that stuff and made a place to put it. Apparently, that's a weird thought. Who knows of a popular cruiser that has a gasoline tank for dinghy fuel in an appropriate place? I can't name any.

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I just surveyed a boat that kept the dinghy petrol tank in one (!!) of the bow anchor lockers.

 

You could smell the fuel leaking in the locker.

 

It also had the anchor winch, exposed contacts, relays and deck switches in the same locker.

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That photo has to be fake doesn't it? With the keel canted out to weather?

It also looks more than 50 degrees but I know these things are often deceptive.

I dunno. They managed to get the boat into a similar posture for Alex Thomson's keel walking:

 

the fookin' stereo glitched with a jimmy buffet playlist that won't pause. anything to get away from the cockpit

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I just surveyed a boat that kept the dinghy petrol tank in one (!!) of the bow anchor lockers.

 

You could smell the fuel leaking in the locker.

 

It also had the anchor winch, exposed contacts, relays and deck switches in the same locker.

That boat was certainly in danger of the front falling off… well blown off really.

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When I see an offshore sailboat with COTB and jerry cans everywhere and fenders hanging from the lifelines, windage in the wrong place is exactly what I think, much less taking a sea aboard. I think an offshore sailboat should have as clean and smooth a deck, hull and rigging as possible.

 

I think the designer should have figured out that they'd want that stuff and made a place to put it. Apparently, that's a weird thought. Who knows of a popular cruiser that has a gasoline tank for dinghy fuel in an appropriate place? I can't name any.

 

Thread on J boat which see. I think it is partially the designer not putting places for things and partially people carrying stuff they have no place for. I'm an equal opportunity complainer.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I've got a buddy who sails an Ensign on Lake Minnetonka. He'd always send me videos of his boat not just with the rail in the water but the coaming-mounted winches too. Seems like he just wasn't happy unless there was a roostertail of water coming off the winches. I finally got out there for a visit and the penny dropped. His 20 year old sails were so baggy that he had no choice but lay her over if he wanted to go anywhere at all. Last summer he put a new main and jib on the boat and it's been transformed. The winches stay out of the water, the tiller's back on the centerline, and he can point an extra 10 degrees. The boat is fast and quiet now that he's not plowing a furrow in the lake and he's happy as a clam.

 

EDIT: sorry for the non-sequitor, I was a couple pages back reading the discussion about how much Tom's boat heels.

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I've got a buddy who sails an Ensign on Lake Minnetonka. He'd always send me videos of his boat not just with the rail in the water but the coaming-mounted winches too. Seems like he just wasn't happy unless there was a roostertail of water coming off the winches. I finally got out there for a visit and the penny dropped. His 20 year old sails were so baggy that he had no choice but lay her over if he wanted to go anywhere at all. Last summer he put a new main and jib on the boat and it's been transformed. The winches stay out of the water, the tiller's back on the centerline, and he can point an extra 10 degrees. The boat is fast and quiet now that he's not plowing a furrow in the lake and he's happy as a clam.

 

EDIT: sorry for the non-sequitor, I was a couple pages back reading the discussion about how much Tom's boat heels.

My sails are new - and replaced regularly. ;)

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  • 4 weeks later...

I like deep sea fishing, and I like sailing. Trying to fish from a sailboat is the worst of both worlds. It looks like this boat might do both reasonably well. For what it is, I like the looks. It is so much more pleasant to look at than the current crop of plastic tennis shoes (and many from the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90's as well).

How about this idea?

 

(oops, don't seem to know how to add an image to this forum?)

 

Gamefishing for Sail, under Sail

http://www.runningtideyachts.com/gamefishing/

Sure would have been nice to hook Buffett on this idea.

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I like deep sea fishing, and I like sailing. Trying to fish from a sailboat is the worst of both worlds. It looks like this boat might do both reasonably well. For what it is, I like the looks. It is so much more pleasant to look at than the current crop of plastic tennis shoes (and many from the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90's as well).

 

Took a while to catch up on this thread and with each post I kept thinking "they're not even NOTICING the point of this boat, and to the extent they do, they want to destroy it!"

 

Get rid of the fighting chairs? Get rid of the extra engines? WTF?

 

OK, it's a motorboat with a mast and I still hate that idea, BUT...

 

How many of you have used a 6'+ gaff to grab a 6' fish? That critter has a LOT of leverage out there, and then you have to bring it in, usually around stays and above lifelines. Sportsfishermen have transom doors for a reason. Even that one boat on this thread that looks sorta OK for boating a big fish still sucks compared to the Buffett boat.

 

It's sailboat crossed with sportsfisherman. A bad idea, much like powerboat crossed with sailboat, but a well-executed bad idea. Much like MacGregor's much-hated but very successful later boats.

 

I'd ditch the stupid mast and put a flybridge on it. At least double the size of the engines. And then have something ordinary.

 

But if I have to catch big fish from something with a mast, I haven't seen anything better suited to the job than this boat.

 

And I DO like catching big fish from a boat with a mast. I'm just willing to put up with a giant gaff and annoying lifelines and stays and the disturbing lack of fighting chairs or the ability to effectively back down.

 

/rant.

 

These guys aboard the old Tara Vana had a pretty good time fishing aboard a sail vessel.

http://www.runningtideyachts.com/archives/TaraTour1.php

And there are a few remote spots you might not reach in a conventional fuely vessel.

http://www.runningtideyachts.com/archives/FishZone1.php

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I think this thread is really highlighting what I am coming to dislike about getting old - the affliction of "modern everything" constantly being thrust upon me. :lol:

It is made worse by the fact that I was seemingly "born old", have always had old friends, had old tastes in nearly everything from music to sailboats - I even married an old(er) woman. I rermember all sorts of good old TV shows, but today I can pretty much watch only one. (..For me, "Modern" TV sucks.)

 

I have subscribed to Sail Magazine and Crusing World since 1972, but I haven't read either magazine from cover-to-cover in probably 15 years now. Why? Nearly all the "modern" boats (..Ok, there are exceptions) seem completely unattractive to me now - which I suppose is my polite way of saying "hideous".

 

I've been taking a young couple sailing for about nine months now. I told them that if they learned to sail and care for my boat, I would give it to them when I was done sailing it (...part of the reason I started the thread on "How Long will Fiberglass boats last?"). But, already, they are dreaming of a "sapceship" looking vessel. (...Stupidly, I gave them a handful of Sail and Crusing World magazines. <_< )

Bottom Line: My boat is too old and dowdy for them. I can't even give it away.

 

Anyway, this is all sad for me because instead of keeping a piece of classic plastic alive for another generation, I'm really just delaying a trip to the landfill by an insignificant amount of time. (...Very few people want an old Morgan 30 now, in 15 years, almost nobody will.)

 

I've tried to appreciate the many improvements that modern boats have over old boats like mine, but I can't get past the "looks".

For me, a boat has to look good, first and foremost. It doesn't have to be a perfect "10", but it has to be above a "6".

The majority of what I see being made today is around a "3" (,,,again to MY eye) ...and I may be overly generous.

 

I blame my aging. Few pleasant things of any type are being conceived, designed, and mass produced specifically to appeal to old farts like me - and modern sailboats have left me in their wake. They are indeed better, more spacious, and more loaded with features than my old boat. But no matter, they are mostly ugly.

 

I appreciate that some can see the benefits of Jimmy Buffet's new boat. I hope he finds it to be attractive. Somehow. :blink:

I can appreciate where you are coming from. I often decribed a lot of the newer fiberglass boat designs as just another floating clorax bottle.

 

But let me bring up 2 of my favorite monohull motorsailers/sportfish

Alden 57

http://www.yachtforums.com/threads/motor-sailers-by-philip-rhodes-john-alden.6710/#post-41824

 

Rhodes 44 Discoverer

http://www.yachtforums.com/threads/motor-sailers-by-philip-rhodes-john-alden.6710/page-4#post-132022

 

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A Morgan 30 won my division in a race last weekend. I'm sure it was the oldest boat in the division.

 

One of my greatest pleasures in sailing an old boat has been those times when I'm passing newer ones. :D

It's always good to hear of a few other "good old ones" still doing well!

While they aren't particularly appealing to the modern boat buyer, there are a few of us old guys who still enjoy them for what they are ...for a few years longer anyway.

 

gallery_75266_1119_124823.jpg

 

Tom I like your boat, and particularly because she is a mastheader and has an overlaping, roller furling headsail

Brian

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Perhaps Bob or WHL can take some photos of the new Buffet boat when they are visiting CATARI. According to Latitude 38, it's being built in N. Carolina by Pacific Seacraft (the same company that's building CATARI).

Apart from the twin engines, I think this would be a fun boat. Standing in the mockup, I can easily imagine reaching up Francis Drake Channel in a decent breeze. It's a fun concept for de islands. Easy dive platform, fishing, wind surfing, generally laying about. The room feels like the cockpit of a catamaran. The main trim is intended to be a reverse ratio hydraulic ram using an Italian system, probably 1:4, hence the only visible sheet is a single part, attached to a fixed point overhead. The sheet would run forward and down inside the rig to the ram. There is no reason that the jib couldn't be sheeted by a powered hidden drum, leaving the winches for an asymm and occasional exercise ! The swim platform swings up and encloses the aft deck's party pit.

 

I could see these becoming a fun charter boat

.post-5483-0-91545200-1447304797_thumb.jpeg

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Got a private tour from a friend of a friend last week at the Martin Guitar factory. Fellow had a book on Hinckley Yachts on his shelves. Seems Mr. Buffett had ordered a custom case for his Martins on a Hinckley he was having built, and this fellow had done some of the work. I wonder which guitars will be on the new boat.

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Perhaps Bob or WHL can take some photos of the new Buffet boat when they are visiting CATARI. According to Latitude 38, it's being built in N. Carolina by Pacific Seacraft (the same company that's building CATARI).

Apart from the twin engines, I think this would be a fun boat. Standing in the mockup, I can easily imagine reaching up Francis Drake Channel in a decent breeze. It's a fun concept for de islands. Easy dive platform, fishing, wind surfing, generally laying about. The room feels like the cockpit of a catamaran. The main trim is intended to be a reverse ratio hydraulic ram using an Italian system, probably 1:4, hence the only visible sheet is a single part, attached to a fixed point overhead. The sheet would run forward and down inside the rig to the ram. There is no reason that the jib couldn't be sheeted by a powered hidden drum, leaving the winches for an asymm and occasional exercise ! The swim platform swings up and encloses the aft deck's party pit.

 

I could see these becoming a fun charter boat

.attachicon.gifimage.jpeg

 

Its an interesting design, but I dare say you ask any ocean fishing guy and he would have real problems with that wide open transom. Many fishing guys lean against a cockpit railing (and particularly an the aft one) during the final gafting of the fish. And many of the newer 'stand-up' fishing styles don't utilize the chairs as often (and I believe Buffett is one of those style fishermen).

A little bit of pitching out on the ocean waves, or somewhat rapid backing down on the prey would certainly allow way to much water into that cockpit area.

 

I think the designer should have consulted a few fishing experts while coming up with that design.

 

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GAMEFISHING FOR SAIL(fish), UNDER SAIL

 

On my catamaran fishing design I have considered several different options.

1) On this dynariged version that aft fishing cockpit can be made to lower and raise down to ocean level, or nearly so.
http://www.runningtideyachts.com/dynarig/DynaRig_Perspective.php

 

http://www.runningtideyachts.com/dynarig/Deck_View_Rig_Rotation.php

 

http://www.runningtideyachts.com/dynarig/Layout_and_Profile_Accommodations_Drawing.php

2) 'Fishing deck' modification.
http://www.yachtforums.com/threads/gamefishing-for-sail-under-sail-and-power.1548/page-3#post-53496

 

3) Another variation I ran across.
http://www.yachtforums.com/threads/gamefishing-for-sail-under-sail-and-power.1548/page-3#post-140524

4) Note that my boom for the aft sail swings up totally out of the way of the fishing cockpit.

http://www.runningtideyachts.com/gamefishing/65trolling.html

 

 

(BTW, how do you post photos on this forum??)

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A bit of thread drift backwards.... It occurred to me that a nice feature for a cruiser would be an integral dinghy gas tank. Isolated locker, proper venting, all that. Small transfer pump to top up the small tank in dink. No more carrying jerry cans of gasoline strapped to the lifelines, or heaven forbid stashed in the lazarette.

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Regarding Morgan 30s...

Back in the 60s and early 70s the first race of the SORC was from St Pete-Boca Grande seabouy-finish at Venice Jetties. There usually was a cold front during the race, despite a long run down the Gulf, the brutal beat from BG to Venice made it a 'big boat race'. I think it was 1970, Windward Passage opened a nice lead on American Eagle on the run, but ran aground on the bar at BG and pounded there for an hour or so. American Eagle passed them and were first to finish. Pretty impressive seeing them beat up the coast, going over one wave, and under the next 3 in the dark. As usual, the bigger boats dominated the results...except 2nd overall, and first in class by a huge margin, was local sailor Ron Krippendorf sailing his Morgan 30 Americana. I saw them at dawn, a few miles south of the finish, hauling ass upwind in the company of 40+ footers. Pretty amazing. Not heeled 45 degrees, but then he also had about 6 beefy guys sitting on the rail.

I'm glad Tom loves his boat, lavishes such care on it, and sails the piss out of it. The anti-Rimas.

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A bit of thread drift backwards.... It occurred to me that a nice feature for a cruiser would be an integral dinghy gas tank. Isolated locker, proper venting, all that. Small transfer pump to top up the small tank in dink. No more carrying jerry cans of gasoline strapped to the lifelines, or heaven forbid stashed in the lazarette.

Petrol (gasoline) goes off. How much are you planning on using?
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A bit of thread drift backwards.... It occurred to me that a nice feature for a cruiser would be an integral dinghy gas tank. Isolated locker, proper venting, all that. Small transfer pump to top up the small tank in dink. No more carrying jerry cans of gasoline strapped to the lifelines, or heaven forbid stashed in the lazarette.

Petrol (gasoline) goes off. How much are you planning on using?
how much you need? AFAIK most cruisers carry one or two 5 gallon jerry cans. So a 5 or 10 gallon tank would suffice I think. Add a bit of Sta-Bil and the gas will keep for several weeks. In any case, it won't stay good in a couple of Jerry cans sitting in the sun on deck any better than in a proper permanent tank.
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A bit of thread drift backwards.... It occurred to me that a nice feature for a cruiser would be an integral dinghy gas tank. Isolated locker, proper venting, all that. Small transfer pump to top up the small tank in dink. No more carrying jerry cans of gasoline strapped to the lifelines, or heaven forbid stashed in the lazarette.

Petrol (gasoline) goes off. How much are you planning on using?
how much you need? AFAIK most cruisers carry one or two 5 gallon jerry cans. So a 5 or 10 gallon tank would suffice I think. Add a bit of Sta-Bil and the gas will keep for several weeks. In any case, it won't stay good in a couple of Jerry cans sitting in the sun on deck any better than in a proper permanent tank.

 

 

Much easier to empty the jerry cans into your car tank instead of letting it sit.

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A bit of thread drift backwards.... It occurred to me that a nice feature for a cruiser would be an integral dinghy gas tank. Isolated locker, proper venting, all that. Small transfer pump to top up the small tank in dink. No more carrying jerry cans of gasoline strapped to the lifelines, or heaven forbid stashed in the lazarette.

Petrol (gasoline) goes off. How much are you planning on using?
how much you need? AFAIK most cruisers carry one or two 5 gallon jerry cans. So a 5 or 10 gallon tank would suffice I think. Add a bit of Sta-Bil and the gas will keep for several weeks. In any case, it won't stay good in a couple of Jerry cans sitting in the sun on deck any better than in a proper permanent tank.

Much easier to empty the jerry cans into your car tank instead of letting it sit.

Unless your car drinks diesel.
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A bit of thread drift backwards.... It occurred to me that a nice feature for a cruiser would be an integral dinghy gas tank. Isolated locker, proper venting, all that. Small transfer pump to top up the small tank in dink. No more carrying jerry cans of gasoline strapped to the lifelines, or heaven forbid stashed in the lazarette.

Petrol (gasoline) goes off. How much are you planning on using?
how much you need? AFAIK most cruisers carry one or two 5 gallon jerry cans. So a 5 or 10 gallon tank would suffice I think. Add a bit of Sta-Bil and the gas will keep for several weeks. In any case, it won't stay good in a couple of Jerry cans sitting in the sun on deck any better than in a proper permanent tank.

Much easier to empty the jerry cans into your car tank instead of letting it sit.

Unless your car drinks diesel.

 

 

A bit of gas will clean them out like a dose of salts.

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Perhaps Bob or WHL can take some photos of the new Buffet boat when they are visiting CATARI. According to Latitude 38, it's being built in N. Carolina by Pacific Seacraft (the same company that's building CATARI).

 

Apart from the twin engines, I think this would be a fun boat. Standing in the mockup, I can easily imagine reaching up Francis Drake Channel in a decent breeze. It's a fun concept for de islands. Easy dive platform, fishing, wind surfing, generally laying about. The room feels like the cockpit of a catamaran. The main trim is intended to be a reverse ratio hydraulic ram using an Italian system, probably 1:4, hence the only visible sheet is a single part, attached to a fixed point overhead. The sheet would run forward and down inside the rig to the ram. There is no reason that the jib couldn't be sheeted by a powered hidden drum, leaving the winches for an asymm and occasional exercise ! The swim platform swings up and encloses the aft deck's party pit.

I could see these becoming a fun charter boat

.attachicon.gifimage.jpeg

Its an interesting design, but I dare say you ask any ocean fishing guy and he would have real problems with that wide open transom. Many fishing guys lean against a cockpit railing (and particularly an the aft one) during the final gafting of the fish. And many of the newer 'stand-up' fishing styles don't utilize the chairs as often (and I believe Buffett is one of those style fishermen).

 

A little bit of pitching out on the ocean waves, or somewhat rapid backing down on the prey would certainly allow way to much water into that cockpit area.

 

I think the designer should have consulted a few fishing experts while coming up with that design.

Is reading and comprehension an issue? The platform at the stern hinges up and closes off the stern with watertight seals so that they can back down without swamping the boat.
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Perhaps Bob or WHL can take some photos of the new Buffet boat when they are visiting CATARI. According to Latitude 38, it's being built in N. Carolina by Pacific Seacraft (the same company that's building CATARI).

 

Apart from the twin engines, I think this would be a fun boat. Standing in the mockup, I can easily imagine reaching up Francis Drake Channel in a decent breeze. It's a fun concept for de islands. Easy dive platform, fishing, wind surfing, generally laying about. The room feels like the cockpit of a catamaran. The main trim is intended to be a reverse ratio hydraulic ram using an Italian system, probably 1:4, hence the only visible sheet is a single part, attached to a fixed point overhead. The sheet would run forward and down inside the rig to the ram. There is no reason that the jib couldn't be sheeted by a powered hidden drum, leaving the winches for an asymm and occasional exercise ! The swim platform swings up and encloses the aft deck's party pit.

I could see these becoming a fun charter boat

.attachicon.gifimage.jpeg

Its an interesting design, but I dare say you ask any ocean fishing guy and he would have real problems with that wide open transom. Many fishing guys lean against a cockpit railing (and particularly an the aft one) during the final gafting of the fish. And many of the newer 'stand-up' fishing styles don't utilize the chairs as often (and I believe Buffett is one of those style fishermen).

 

A little bit of pitching out on the ocean waves, or somewhat rapid backing down on the prey would certainly allow way to much water into that cockpit area.

 

I think the designer should have consulted a few fishing experts while coming up with that design.

Is reading and comprehension an issue? The platform at the stern hinges up and closes off the stern with watertight seals so that they can back down without swamping the boat.
Might have come in handy for Hugo Boss...or not.
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http://rumshopryan.com/2013/02/12/jimmy-buffetts-yacht-continental-drifter/

 

I find a lot of Delta Yachts are pretty handsome crafts. They seem to take a page out of another PNW designer: Ed Monk jr. who I've always admired.

 

A lot of celebrities like JB have these out to charter. Why? Cuz they can. It can make economic sense as well from a tax point of view. And of course great parties for 30.

 

And I agree with WHL in spirit: Not everyone wants to sail a double ended Perry designs around the world standing on there head (Sorry Bob - I couldn't resist! ;-) ). I'm sure I'd have a ton fun with a boat like that just in the Salish Sea. Up in Pendrell Sound in the summer or Mink Island were I don't rip out the anchor weeks at a time. I have had enough adventure in my racing so I don't need to go look for it for my cruising thanks. I'd like to see the full spec or mock up and I'm not sure it's meant to be full twin engine but have what boats like Nordhavn that have a get home engine/generator connected a shaft/strut and a max-prop at the end of it.

 

I really don't understand the angst with Jimmy. He's been kind to me. He's successful being Jimmy and paid to have fun. We should be so lucky. Jealousy maybe?

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I have no "angst" with JB. I don't know the man. I don't think I have noticed any angst here at all. Jealousy? Of course we are jealous. But not angry.

It was directed to you Bob at all - just being cheeky. It's the guys that need a boat that is bomb proof. But they don't go anywhere really but will tell you all about it and of course there huge opinions thusly at great volume.

 

But that's just my opinion; I might be wrong ;-)

 

I think JB's boat might perfect for its intended usage. He's run the gambit of full on offshore boat so why not? Might be the project of doing it for him. There is lesser plastic fantastics boats in market place these days and at any given boat show there has so much "sameness" these day as you can't figure out what boat you were on.

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I have no "angst" with JB. I don't know the man. I don't think I have noticed any angst here at all. Jealousy? Of course we are jealous. But not angry.

It was directed to you Bob at all - just being cheeky. It's the guys that need a boat that is bomb proof. But they don't go anywhere really but will tell you all about it and of course there huge opinions thusly at great volume.

 

But that's just my opinion; I might be wrong ;-)

 

I think JB's boat might perfect for its intended usage. He's run the gambit of full on offshore boat so why not? Might be the project of doing it for him. There is lesser plastic fantastics boats in market place these days and at any given boat show there has so much "sameness" these day as you can't figure out what boat you were on.

No doubt JBs boat will suit it's intended purpose as a floating condo. And he's quite entitled to spend his millions as he wishes. But this is an Internet forum, where all are able to voice their opinions. My opinion is that it's a waste to build a 44' boat quite unsuitable for even a minor gale. JBs boat, like a Gunboat, will have to be shipped to whatever cruising ground he wishes to stage it, not ssiled there. Not sure why he doesn't just charter a condomaran. Doesn't even need a mast.
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I have no "angst" with JB. I don't know the man. I don't think I have noticed any angst here at all. Jealousy? Of course we are jealous. But not angry.

It was directed to you Bob at all - just being cheeky. It's the guys that need a boat that is bomb proof. But they don't go anywhere really but will tell you all about it and of course there huge opinions thusly at great volume.

 

But that's just my opinion; I might be wrong ;-)

 

I think JB's boat might perfect for its intended usage. He's run the gambit of full on offshore boat so why not? Might be the project of doing it for him. There is lesser plastic fantastics boats in market place these days and at any given boat show there has so much "sameness" these day as you can't figure out what boat you were on.

No doubt JBs boat will suit it's intended purpose as a floating condo. And he's quite entitled to spend his millions as he wishes. But this is an Internet forum, where all are able to voice their opinions. My opinion is that it's a waste to build a 44' boat quite unsuitable for even a minor gale. JBs boat, like a Gunboat, will have to be shipped to whatever cruising ground he wishes to stage it, not ssiled there. Not sure why he doesn't just charter a condomaran. Doesn't even need a mast.
Yep you are entitled to your opinion, even if it's presumptuous bollocks :D

Are you just flapping gums? Please state why you think it is "unsuitable for even a minor gale"

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I have no "angst" with JB. I don't know the man. I don't think I have noticed any angst here at all. Jealousy? Of course we are jealous. But not angry.

It was directed to you Bob at all - just being cheeky. It's the guys that need a boat that is bomb proof. But they don't go anywhere really but will tell you all about it and of course there huge opinions thusly at great volume.

 

But that's just my opinion; I might be wrong ;-)

 

I think JB's boat might perfect for its intended usage. He's run the gambit of full on offshore boat so why not? Might be the project of doing it for him. There is lesser plastic fantastics boats in market place these days and at any given boat show there has so much "sameness" these day as you can't figure out what boat you were on.

No doubt JBs boat will suit it's intended purpose as a floating condo. And he's quite entitled to spend his millions as he wishes. But this is an Internet forum, where all are able to voice their opinions. My opinion is that it's a waste to build a 44' boat quite unsuitable for even a minor gale. JBs boat, like a Gunboat, will have to be shipped to whatever cruising ground he wishes to stage it, not ssiled there. Not sure why he doesn't just charter a condomaran. Doesn't even need a mast.
Yep you are entitled to your opinion, even if it's presumptuous bollocks :D

Are you just flapping gums? Please state why you think it is "unsuitable for even a minor gale"

back end of salon is open. The volume of salon and cockpit makes the boat vulnerable to seas. Plus, the expanse of glass in the salon is a vulnerability, since that's all that's protecting nav and communications gear. Same situation as the damaged and abandoned Gunboat.

The boat is fine for cocktail parties and day-trips to The Baths. If JB decides to relocate the boat to the Med or Fiji, he'll have to ship it.

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Why do some people have to judge all boats in terms of their suitability for offshore passages? I'm far from a fan of that boat but it's obviously a day/coastal play boat and offshore was never in the brief.

 

I notice that people seldom or never judge offshore oriented boats in terms of their lack of suitability for coastal/day useage.

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Why do some people have to judge all boats in terms of their suitability for offshore passages? I'm far from a fan of that boat but it's obviously a day/coastal play boat and offshore was never in the brief.

 

I notice that people seldom or never judge offshore oriented boats in terms of their lack of suitability for coastal/day useage.

Sure they do, with their checkbooks. At least the second time around.

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Why do some people have to judge all boats in terms of their suitability for offshore passages? I'm far from a fan of that boat but it's obviously a day/coastal play boat and offshore was never in the brief.

 

I notice that people seldom or never judge offshore oriented boats in terms of their lack of suitability for coastal/day useage.

CataBeneHun sells a hell of a lot of coastal day use boats. They're fine for that purpose. Given the cost, though (especially JBs new boat), something a bit more capable than being a toy for dockside cocktail parties is appreciated by many. We're not talking about sailing around Cape Horn, but a 44' boat should be capable of crossing the Gulfstream en route to the Carribean, or doing a tradewinds passage. Hell, the 30yo C&C 40 I delivered to BVI and back did just fine. I don't think it's asking too much for a multi-million dollar new boat to be similarly capable. I'm sure Jimmy will be happy with his new toy, let's just not pretend it's something it's not.
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Why do some people have to judge all boats in terms of their suitability for offshore passages? I'm far from a fan of that boat but it's obviously a day/coastal play boat and offshore was never in the brief.

 

I notice that people seldom or never judge offshore oriented boats in terms of their lack of suitability for coastal/day useage.

Sure they do, with their checkbooks. At least the second time around.

 

This isn't Jimmy's rodeo by far: http://www.buffettnews.com/resources/boatsplanes/

 

Maybe he wanted a change from what a racing buddy you to put it: "A slab sided dog bodied cruising boat".

 

SJB and RKoch you are correct that you are not rounding the Horn or an attempt of the Northwest Passage. I have a C&C of that size (JonB can throw rock at her from his berth) that has done the Maui race for 3 times and back again. Hundreds of miles of or even thousands under her keel cruising in some snotty conditions but the old girl is like the Energizer Bunny.....keeps going....going....going. Works just fine for me and has.

 

Frankly, I would never understood that you need a boat that is heavy enough to bend light. What's the point? So slow you run out of groceries to your destination? That's why I've liked Bob's designs like Nordic etc as they are dead sexy with a crank of speed; in anything that ocean throws at you.

 

That said: We are surmising a lot from a couple of digital images. What if it's built by Concordia? Hylas? Or even Betts hmm? I'm sure Jim would relish the challenge. And looking at (and I do that a lot) the Riptide 35 "Longboard" and the 41 Blue is more than a capable build. And JB is no dummy either. But it's his call at the end of the day

 

Jeebus Xmas Boxes - when did this place became SailNet etc.

 

(BTW - JonB: I'm just buttoning the girl up for awhile so we'll get out there in the spring.)

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Let's say you set the seaworthiness standard to "suitable for cruising Eastport, ME to Key West". Does that mean it's good for Montauk to Virginia Beach, or around Hatteras?

In a 44' size, yes. We're not talking a hurricane, but a 44' cruising boat should be able to sail US coast, to Bermuda or BVIs, in reasonable safety and still be a fun boat to island hop in once there. For 75 years that was a given. Now, not so much.
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Why, if you never plan to do it?

 

Looks like JB has won the "He who dies with the most toys, wins" sweeps.

If all he wants is a party barge, good for him. Bit pretentious to put a mast on it though, imo.

I think Richard Branson wins the 'most toys' award.

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Hey Maxx:

May I please use that line "Boats heavy enough to bend light"? That is brilliant!

Absolutely. But it was stolen from another Seattle racing comedian by a name you might recognize: Scotty Rohrer. It was a long time ago but I'm certain he would be honoured!

 

I just added him in my connections on LinkedIn. I'll see if he hiccups.

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Maxx: I spent an hour or so with Scott at the PT wooden boat fest. He was in good form and happy. Still a smart ass and a very funny one. We go back to early high school days. It comes as no surprise that the quote is his. Now I will use it and give credit to Scott when I do. Thanks. It's a perfect description of my new cutters.

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Hey Maxx:

May I please use that line "Boats heavy enough to bend light"? That is brilliant!

 

Absolutely. But it was stolen from another Seattle racing comedian by a name you might recognize: Scotty Rohrer. It was a long time ago but I'm certain he would be honoured!

 

I just added him in my connections on LinkedIn. I'll see if he hiccups.

I first heard Scott use that term with that big Tripp ketch:

 

"The Mighty Atalanta, the boat that bends light" he was really smirking as he said it.

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No worries Bob. I can't remember if he said it directly to me or something read on 48 North or NW Yachting but it was 20+ years ago. Either way I use it to this day and when people look at me weird until they get it. I'll always segue to Scotty when people blow beer out there nose where I got it from. Racing or working in the states often get the Canadian humour. Scott gets that.

 

After all I spell humour with a "u" so what do you expect as I'm a silly bunt!

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Oo, I love all this boat porn - it's very exciting for an outsider like me, who's never heard of these legendary 'mercan boats

 

http://sailingnorthwest.blogspot.co.uk/2007/06/swiftsure-2007-on-atalanta.html

Thank you for that article Mr. Ed as I have done Swiftsure on Atalanta but no record pace. Frankly, it was pretty light. I can't remember which year was but I was elected as guest tactician and of course I was shaking up the 'mericans with Canuck humour. I had fellow countryman Dal Brynelsen in afterguard as well. Not a boat for light air and I used my "heavy enough to bend light" saying then and I don't think they got that then. Anyhoodles, we are drifting out on to the bank in the dark and I decided to have a kip. I pop up on deck at dawn and Dal was up too and the watch captain says: We are only doing 2 knots with very little chance to get to mark at the noon deadline? I looked at Dal, looked at watch captain and said: "I suggest we pull the goalie!" He looked at me like he had shit on his nose and the two guys in the pit elbowed the other, looking at the selection of ropes in the pit whispered: "which one is the goalie?" Dal blew coffee out his nose and had to go to afterdeck in tears. I said: "Sorry, Canadian humour." I said: "This not going to happen at all but you will have to rouse the owner to make the decision as I a can't." Dick the owner came up and said we'll keep going as long as we can. "Your call Dick". At noon we were still miles away but we could hear the clunk of anchor chain then and it's time for the 10 hour motor back to Victoria. We had a great time and lots of catered food and videos in the salon. It wasn't all that bad really.

 

I should have to say that looking the record list at the bottom of the article and I was on "Coruba" for that record. It was friggin' fast and I think we hit 26.5 knots then carbon vang fitting let go (in the dark of course!) so that was very exciting for awhile.

 

Don't believe me? I even got the t-shirt!

 

post-1185-0-83607900-1447722688_thumb.jpg

 

And me on the rail at the start. Of course the only guy wearing shorts. Canadian Tilley shorts of course!

 

post-1185-0-16019200-1447722773_thumb.jpg

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Oo, I love all this boat porn - it's very exciting for an outsider like me, who's never heard of these legendary 'mercan boats

 

http://sailingnorthwest.blogspot.co.uk/2007/06/swiftsure-2007-on-atalanta.html

Thank you for that article Mr. Ed as I have done Swiftsure on Atalanta but no record pace. Frankly, it was pretty light. I can't remember which year was but I was elected as guest tactician and of course I was shaking up the 'mericans with Canuck humour. I had fellow countryman Dal Brynelsen in afterguard as well. Not a boat for light air and I used my "heavy enough to bend light" saying then and I don't think they got that then. Anyhoodles, we are drifting out on to the bank in the dark and I decided to have a kip. I pop up on deck at dawn and Dal was up too and the watch captain says: We are only doing 2 knots with very little chance to get to mark at the noon deadline? I looked at Dal, looked at watch captain and said: "I suggest we pull the goalie!" He looked at me like he had shit on his nose and the two guys in the pit elbowed the other, looking at the selection of ropes in the pit whispered: "which one is the goalie?" Dal blew coffee out his nose and had to go to afterdeck in tears. I said: "Sorry, Canadian humour." I said: "This not going to happen at all but you will have to rouse the owner to make the decision as I a can't." Dick the owner came up and said we'll keep going as long as we can. "Your call Dick". At noon we were still miles away but we could hear the clunk of anchor chain then and it's time for the 10 hour motor back to Victoria. We had a great time and lots of catered food and videos in the salon. It wasn't all that bad really.

 

I should have to say that looking the record list at the bottom of the article and I was on "Coruba" for that record. It was friggin' fast and I think we hit 26.5 knots then carbon vang fitting let go (in the dark of course!) so that was very exciting for awhile.

 

Don't believe me? I even got the t-shirt!

 

attachicon.gifCoruba 2.jpg

 

And me on the rail at the start. Of course the only guy wearing shorts. Canadian Tilley shorts of course!

 

attachicon.gifCoruba.swftsrepy.jpg

 

 

There are two people apparently wearing shorts...either one is a woman or the other guy has no pants at all.

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Oo, I love all this boat porn - it's very exciting for an outsider like me, who's never heard of these legendary 'mercan boats

 

http://sailingnorthwest.blogspot.co.uk/2007/06/swiftsure-2007-on-atalanta.html

 

Thank you for that article Mr. Ed as I have done Swiftsure on Atalanta but no record pace. Frankly, it was pretty light. I can't remember which year was but I was elected as guest tactician and of course I was shaking up the 'mericans with Canuck humour. I had fellow countryman Dal Brynelsen in afterguard as well. Not a boat for light air and I used my "heavy enough to bend light" saying then and I don't think they got that then. Anyhoodles, we are drifting out on to the bank in the dark and I decided to have a kip. I pop up on deck at dawn and Dal was up too and the watch captain says: We are only doing 2 knots with very little chance to get to mark at the noon deadline? I looked at Dal, looked at watch captain and said: "I suggest we pull the goalie!" He looked at me like he had shit on his nose and the two guys in the pit elbowed the other, looking at the selection of ropes in the pit whispered: "which one is the goalie?" Dal blew coffee out his nose and had to go to afterdeck in tears. I said: "Sorry, Canadian humour." I said: "This not going to happen at all but you will have to rouse the owner to make the decision as I a can't." Dick the owner came up and said we'll keep going as long as we can. "Your call Dick". At noon we were still miles away but we could hear the clunk of anchor chain then and it's time for the 10 hour motor back to Victoria. We had a great time and lots of catered food and videos in the salon. It wasn't all that bad really.

 

I should have to say that looking the record list at the bottom of the article and I was on "Coruba" for that record. It was friggin' fast and I think we hit 26.5 knots then carbon vang fitting let go (in the dark of course!) so that was very exciting for awhile.

 

Don't believe me? I even got the t-shirt!

 

attachicon.gifCoruba 2.jpg

 

And me on the rail at the start. Of course the only guy wearing shorts. Canadian Tilley shorts of course!

 

attachicon.gifCoruba.swftsrepy.jpg

I have raced on The Mighty Atalanta a number of times. It takes so many people to crew that beast there were races where I did not even meet all of the other crew. (We sailed with anywhere from 20 to 26 in the crew.)

 

I had a business lunch one time with a fellow and we figured out we had crew together on her but had never met. He was in the foredeck crew and I was in the afterguard. We were a long way away from each other.

 

Great boat! Comfortable, sailed through a force ten storm on her off of Oregon and she just kept slamming along through the waves. Scared the hell out of me. But we made it to Seattle no problem.

 

Dick was always a charming and generous guy.

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Dick Hedreen was my client an always a most gracious and generous man. And kind of fun.

 

I'll tell you a story:

I was at home one night and talking to my wife. I was deep into the ATALANTA redesign project. Spike and Max were listening to us talk. I made the comment, "Dick is a great guy."

 

My older son, Max, said, "If he's such a great guy, why do you always call him "Dick Head?"

I said, "What do you mean?"

Max said, "You always call him Dick Head Green."

 

I corrected Max."His name is "Dick Hedreen."

 

Kids.

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Oo, I love all this boat porn - it's very exciting for an outsider like me, who's never heard of these legendary 'mercan boats

 

http://sailingnorthwest.blogspot.co.uk/2007/06/swiftsure-2007-on-atalanta.html

As you probably read, Atalanta is the former Ondine II. There was a sister ship named Blackfin.

My fathers old race boats were named Atalanta. Neither was a former Ondine, nor were they 74'. HHN92 knows the second one pretty well... he met his wife on board.

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Kim - I think we met on that Swiftsure otherwise I wouldn't know you on my LinkedIn page but you are there. But quite correct that sailing with 20 to 25 crew you can't know everyone if you are there for one race. Same thing was Jack's Swan 65 "Talina" and I raced with Brad Avery and other Seattle guys. I still keep in contact with a few but some I wouldn't know them from Adam. Funny really with Talina though. One of the local watering holes had a new bar manager from Halifax and said his uncle has had some race boats. It didn't click that his uncle is John Risely of "Numbers" fame and finally figured out the John had owned Talina on the east coast way after it had been in Seattle. Probably 25 years distant but go figure.

 

Bob (and Kim) I always thought that Dick was a gentleman of a high order. It was a honour to sail on the boat and great crew. Is Dick still with us? I see Louis as skipper these days.

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Interesting to note that two Bob Perry boats finished in the top ten (corrected time) in the '07 Swiftsure. Icon (5th place) and Night Runner (9th place). I imagine Bob felt pretty good upon hearing the results of the race.

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Interesting to note that two Bob Perry boats finished in the top ten (corrected time) in the '07 Swiftsure. Icon (5th place) and Night Runner (9th place). I imagine Bob felt pretty good upon hearing the results of the race.

 

Did they catch anything? What kind of bait spread were they trolling? Do any of Bob's sailboats feature outriggers?

 

(Just trying to figure out how JB might react to this thread drift about his boat.)

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Interesting to note that two Bob Perry boats finished in the top ten (corrected time) in the '07 Swiftsure. Icon (5th place) and Night Runner (9th place). I imagine Bob felt pretty good upon hearing the results of the race.

 

Did they catch anything? What kind of bait spread were they trolling? Do any of Bob's sailboats feature outriggers?

 

(Just trying to figure out how JB might react to this thread drift about his boat.)

 

In true SA fashion, this thread drifted away from JB a long time ago.

 

 

 

 

 

Jimmy, if you are reading this thread, I have always hated that Margaritaville song, sorry!

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Jimmy, if you are reading this thread, I have always hated that Margaritaville song, sorry!

 

Haters gonna hate. http://www.margaritaville.com/

 

JIMMY AND THE CORAL REEFERS TO PERFORM AT THE MARGARITAVILLE HOLLYWOOD BEACH RESORT NOV 14TH

The Margaritaville Hollywood Beach Resort is celebrating their opening weekend, including a special performance by Jimmy Buffett and the Coral Reefer Band!

 

The concert will be broadcast on Radio Margaritaville and Margaritaville.TV! At the resort, there will be large screens on the beach, as well as a great line-up of food and beverage offerings near our Lone Palm Beach Bar, which is open for everyone to enjoy!