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Looking forward to the invention of cleats in Canada


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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Re: the Puritanism, I think you are confusing Canada and the USA. AFAIK Canada is the first country in the world to completely legalize weed.

As to the cleats - we have discovered them and simply rejected them.

Uruguay was first. Holland has not legalized, they just ignore a lot of it.

Cleats? Who the hell want to tie their boat up to golf shoes?

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OK, after all this time we should give the Americans the 'real' explanation for bull rails. It dates back to 1963 when we were considering single payer healthcare. There were obvious cost issues and t

Way up thread I think I proposed using powder actuated fasteners. These will drive a 20 penny spike through the flange of a steel I beam. You could jump off the boat, and have 4 cleats down before the

****** WARNING - GRAPHIC PHOTOS OF DEATH IN THIS POST - CONTINUE AT YOUR OWN RISK *****     I was walking the dogs on the beach the other day and stumbled across this body. This is eith

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1 hour ago, Bull City said:
2 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

Cleats are probably nasty things to fall on when a Canadian stumbles along to their dock while high, eh

If you were impaired, and walking on a dock barefooted, in Canada, would rather smash your foot against a cleat or a bull rail?

Bull rails present a much bigger trip hazard, and are made from the same material as the dock, which makes them more difficult to spot than a lump of galvanised metal. Their omnipresent stealthiness makes them a menace to ordinary, decent stoned-out-of-their-minds Canuckistani sailors

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They give you something to desperately grab at as you go over the side and something to grab onto when you haul yourself out of the water.

Cleats really suck at both.

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9 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

Bull rails present a much bigger trip hazard, and are made from the same material as the dock, which makes them more difficult to spot than a lump of galvanised metal. Their omnipresent stealthiness makes them a menace to ordinary, decent stoned-out-of-their-minds Canuckistani sailors

Oooohhhh, omnipresent stealthiness.......I like the sound of that!!!

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

They give you something to desperately grab at as you go over the side and something to grab onto when you haul yourself out of the water.

Cleats really suck at both.

Yeah, but they also add 6" of height that you've got to haul yourself over as you try to get back on dock. I'd sooner grab a cleat for purchase.

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3 minutes ago, IStream said:

Yeah, but they also add 6" of height that you've got to haul yourself over as you try to get back on dock. I'd sooner grab a cleat for purchase.

not too mention all the slivers......

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4 hours ago, Bull City said:

If you were impaired, and walking on a dock barefooted, in Canada, would rather smash your foot against a cleat or a bull rail?

 

2 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

Bull rails present a much bigger trip hazard, and are made from the same material as the dock, which makes them more difficult to spot than a lump of galvanised metal. Their omnipresent stealthiness makes them a menace to ordinary, decent stoned-out-of-their-minds Canuckistani sailors

 

Tongue in cheek, might I submit that instead it’s just a case that we Canadians are more physically coordinated than you ... even when we are ‘under the influence’?  So we don’t worry about stubbing our toes or about tripping.  Unlike you, apparently ;).

 

Although I do find this difference a bit surprising.  For many years I had been under the impression that Americans <but sorry, Legs, the drinking habits of the Irish preclude you ;)> were generally a physically coordinated people.  But I suppose that you Yanks know yourselves better than anyone else does.

 

Hmm, I guess that I now understand why those Ronco-like adverts were so successful in the U.S..  You know, the adverts that started with “Don’t you hate when you can’t open a picnic basket?!?!”.  Or perhaps you’ll remember this advert better: “Don’t ya hate when yer beer bottle slips through yer burgar-grease-covered fingars?!?! (sic sic sic).  Although your poor coordination can’t be due to your Yankee beer itself; because your beer doesn’t contain enough alcohol to make even a mouse start singing bawdy songs :P.

 

So I guess that in our usual mindset of being compassionate Canadians, we’ll have to help those who can’t help themselves.  As per IStreams’s earlier suggestion, we’ll instead use “bull-walls”.  Oh, wait, then you’ll just complain about bumping your nose.  Geez, already! (er, I mean ‘sigh, that’s too bad’).

 

On a semi-related note, just where are you looking when you are walking on the docks?  Up yer arse? <Oops, did I just say that last bit of 'Americanism' out loud? How very rude of me. Sorry.>

 

:D:):D:)

<See, lots of smilies to show that I’m being light-hearted.  And I again make my interpretive-art offering below, to appease your base nature.  So please don’t shoot me>

385669915_marinepeaceofferingintraditionalformfromajuniormemberv2.jpg.b2ba18a6cdac11011c2f562e54254edf.jpg

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21 minutes ago, Panope said:

Bull rail nice and smooth - no splinters.  Lot of slime, however.

About 20 miles from Canada

Not a bad setup.

Steve

gR5nHHE.jpg

The sharp end looks like a musical note in a Starbucks coffee:D

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15 minutes ago, J the landlocked dreamer said:

 

 

Tongue in cheek, might I submit that instead it’s just a case that we Canadians are more physically coordinated than you ... even when we are ‘under the influence’?  So we don’t worry about stubbing our toes or about tripping.  Unlike you, apparently ;).

 

Although I do find this difference a bit surprising.  For many years I had been under the impression that Americans <but sorry, Legs, the drinking habits of the Irish preclude you ;)> were generally a physically coordinated people.  But I suppose that you Yanks know yourselves better than anyone else does.

 

Hmm, I guess that I now understand why those Ronco-like adverts were so successful in the U.S..  You know, the adverts that started with “Don’t you hate when you can’t open a picnic basket?!?!”.  Or perhaps you’ll remember this advert better: “Don’t ya hate when yer beer bottle slips through yer burgar-grease-covered fingars?!?! (sic sic sic).  Although your poor coordination can’t be due to your Yankee beer itself; because your beer doesn’t contain enough alcohol to make even a mouse start singing bawdy songs :P.

 

So I guess that in our usual mindset of being compassionate Canadians, we’ll have to help those who can’t help themselves.  As per IStreams’s earlier suggestion, we’ll instead use “bull-walls”.  Oh, wait, then you’ll just complain about bumping your nose.  Geez, already! (er, I mean ‘sigh, that’s too bad’).

 

On a semi-related note, just where are you looking when you are walking on the docks?  Up yer arse? <Oops, did I just say that last bit of 'Americanism' out loud? How very rude of me. Sorry.>

 

:D:):D:)

<See, lots of smilies to show that I’m being light-hearted.  And I again make my interpretive-art offering below, to appease your base nature.  So please don’t shoot me>

385669915_marinepeaceofferingintraditionalformfromajuniormemberv2.jpg.b2ba18a6cdac11011c2f562e54254edf.jpg

Just back in from shovelling snow? :D

 

 

MeanwhileInCanada.jpg

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Perhaps it would be helpful if I made another factual observation regarding this matter of stubbing toes on simple, evident things (as several of you have noted throughout the life of this thread).  For the search term ‘stub foot cleat’, Google has 516,000 results.  Whereas for the alternative search term ‘stub foot “bull rail”’, Google has only 199 results.  And I suspect that most of those latter come from this very forum; so they don’t really count.

 

Don’t you think that this tells us a great deal about what is ACTUALLY happening?  That cleats are the actual bigger hazard? 

 

Hmm, if you think these stats through, then the corollary is that it won’t be long before the Medical Health Insurers call for the elimination of cleats.  Sorry, DDW, but they’ll probably have more influence than you will.  Time for you to learn those new knots, I should think.  ;)

 

<Yet again, here is my peace offering, for those who don’t realize that I tease in good nature … or even think that I’m truly an advocate for bull rails>:D:):D

 1973425135_marinepeaceofferingintraditionalformfromajuniormemberv2.jpg.d0cafdc5fe18b025644da1574d76dc82.jpg

 

 

On a totally different note:

48 minutes ago, Norse Horse said:

Just back in from shovelling snow? :D

 

Nice try, Norse.  I live in Calgary, not Edmonton.  I had blue sky today, and I didn’t need even my sweater when outside in the yard.  I'm curious: have you slipped into your 6-months of gray sky and rain, yet?  Just asking. :P:D

 

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9 hours ago, J the landlocked dreamer said:

might I submit that instead it’s just a case that we Canadians are more physically coordinated than you ... even when we are ‘under the influence’? 

J, I'm so glad that you acknowledge my central point that bull rails are harder to navigate.  Maybe Canuckistanis are indeed more physically co-ordinated, but it seems perverse to throw away that goddess-given advantage by making your environment such that a higher skill level is required.  It seems very unfair on some Canadian national heroes, like the visually-impaired Bubbles.

I blame it on all that Calvinism of Canada's Presbyterian founding fathers.  My theory is you are just trying to increase your levels of suffering, without adopting the Islamic practice of whipping yourselves with chains, or the Popish habit of tying barbed wire around your underwear.

Which reminds me of my favourite joke about Calvinism, targeted at the Wee Free (the Free Church of Scotland).

Q "Why are the Wee Frees so opposed to sex?"

A. "Because it can lead to dancing"

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2 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

J, I'm so glad that you acknowledge my central point that bull rails are harder to navigate.  Maybe Canuckistanis are indeed more physically co-ordinated, but it seems perverse to throw away that goddess-given advantage by making your environment such that a higher skill level is required.  It seems very unfair on some Canadian national heroes, like the visually-impaired Bubbles.

I blame it on all that Calvinism of Canada's Presbyterian founding fathers.  My theory is you are just trying to increase your levels of suffering, without adopting the Islamic practice of whipping yourselves with chains, or the Popish habit of tying barbed wire around your underwear.

Which reminds me of my favourite joke about Calvinism, targeted at the Wee Free (the Free Church of Scotland).

Q "Why are the Wee Frees so opposed to sex?"

A. "Because it can lead to dancing"

Any bad habits we have came from the old countries...you know, like Ferret Legging....

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10 hours ago, IStream said:

$85? Even in Canadian currency, that's pretty rich. 

It's in Surrey, so we know it was stolen in Oregon [by the shape of the horn], then smuggled across the border into Canada.

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1 hour ago, Norse Horse said:

Any bad habits we have came from the old countries...you know, like Ferret Legging....

Ummmm ... Norse, I see that word "we" in there.  Are you outing yourself as a Ferret-Legger? 

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I note that the Captain has elected to use the cleat, rather than the rail. Everywhere I've gone, when both are provided the bull rails go unused. Why then have both? The bull rail is a definite ankle hazard when you are jumping from your deck to the dock, whether under the influence or not. 

13 hours ago, Panope said:

Bull rail nice and smooth - no splinters.  Lot of slime, however.

About 20 miles from Canada

Not a bad setup.

Steve

gR5nHHE.jpg

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16 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

Ummmm ... Norse, I see that word "we" in there.  Are you outing yourself as a Ferret-Legger? 

No, just speaking for the colonies in general.

I might enquire if you are a participant, given that 2 legged would be a great nickname for a Ferret Legging sport icon.:)

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11 hours ago, IStream said:

$85? Even in Canadian currency, that's pretty rich. 

I suppose if the price of a rusty used cleat in a major metropolis is C$85, then a dockmaster might have some trouble justifying. Bought on Alibaba and delivered by the pallet load, decent sized HDG cleats are about C$4, and so the cost will be lost in the roundoff error of any marina construction. In fact they cost less than bull rails. 

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9 minutes ago, DDW said:

I note that the Captain has elected to use the cleat, rather than the rail. Everywhere I've gone, when both are provided the bull rails go unused. Why then have both? The bull rail is a definite ankle hazard when you are jumping from your deck to the dock, whether under the influence or not. 

Those cleats on top of bull rails are handicap parking...:D

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9 minutes ago, DDW said:

I suppose if the price of a rusty used cleat in a major metropolis is C$85, then a dockmaster might have some trouble justifying. Bought on Alibaba and delivered by the pallet load, decent sized HDG cleats are about C$4, and so the cost will be lost in the roundoff error of any marina construction. In fact they cost less than bull rails. 

Those are the toxic ones that are a health hazard if children teeth on them. Mmm, cadmium...how do they get the filling in?

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If all bull rails where varnished mahogany or teak, I'd have a bit less problem with them. Dinghy docks sometimes have yellow painted bull rails, fewer splinters and slime. In Newfoundland, the bull rails on the public dock are painted yellow and were likewise more hospitable. In BC, only the shittiest of wood is used, and sent to the pressure treater to make them shittier still. 

9 minutes ago, Norse Horse said:

Those cleats on top of bull rails are handicap parking...:D

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17 minutes ago, Norse Horse said:

Those are the toxic ones that are a health hazard if children teeth on them. Mmm, cadmium...how do they get the filling in?

Children who teeth on dock cleats - and the parents that let them - are best dropped from the gene pool. "Three generations of imbeciles is enough!" - O.W.H. I'll admit that allowing them to teeth on pressure treated lumber bull rails (the pressure treatment is chromated arsenic typically) has the same positive result. 

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24 minutes ago, DDW said:

Children who teeth on dock cleats - and the parents that let them - are best dropped from the gene pool. "Three generations of imbeciles is enough!" - O.W.H. I'll admit that allowing them to teeth on pressure treated lumber bull rails (the pressure treatment is chromated arsenic typically) has the same positive result. 

CCA is only in older docks and it gets flushed from the surfaces rail over that many years. The product now is Alkaline Copper Quaternary. It is very hard on metal pieces like cleat soles and any fasteners once the galvanizing is eroded or comes off with installation, like those cheap green deck screws.

Borate preservative is now spec'ed used on pier and dock frames and rails by the govt. Pilings have to be steel, a questionable choice given that wood is carbon neutral and can last a hundred years, like the ironwood pilings still in use today. Steel piles come from Asia with a carbon footprint already high from manufacturing and require a zinc.

You have a wood cutting board for a reason, for it's antibacterial properties. Bull rail snot may have some use in society, like pimple remover or engine block cleaner...:D

 

 

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1 hour ago, Norse Horse said:

CCA is only in older docks and it gets flushed from the surfaces rail over that many years. The product now is Alkaline Copper Quaternary. It is very hard on metal pieces like cleat soles and any fasteners once the galvanizing is eroded or comes off with installation, like those cheap green deck screws.

Borate preservative is now spec'ed used on pier and dock frames and rails by the govt. Pilings have to be steel, a questionable choice given that wood is carbon neutral and can last a hundred years, like the ironwood pilings still in use today. Steel piles come from Asia with a carbon footprint already high from manufacturing and require a zinc.

You have a wood cutting board for a reason, for it's antibacterial properties. Bull rail snot may have some use in society, like pimple remover or engine block cleaner...:D

 

 

Don't most of the wood pilings that've lasted 100 years have a thick layer of creosote on them?

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On 11/3/2018 at 9:18 PM, Bull City said:
On 11/3/2018 at 8:06 PM, TwoLegged said:

Cleats are probably nasty things to fall on when a Canadian stumbles along to their dock while high, eh

If you were impaired, and walking on a dock barefooted, in Canada, would rather smash your foot against a cleat or a bull rail?

Man, that is soooooo negative ......

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19 hours ago, IStream said:

Don't most of the wood pilings that've lasted 100 years have a thick layer of creosote on them?

The pilings in Shoal Bay, an old cannery and town, are made of untreated ironwood. You can still get hardwood pilings today but they are shipped from Asia. Ironwood pilings Shoal Bay

Creosote piles are not as nasty as people think. After 45 years, the piles in Vancouver still had 75% of the treatment left in the wood. The bad thing is to have a thick coating on the outside that sheds into the water from hot sun. They now scrape off the outer crap and reuse it at the factory. Testing has shown that they can reduce the preservative in the piles as well. This report notes that used piles in good shape are reasonably benign but the report notes that any piling is an intrusion on the marine world. CREOSOTE - 245973.pdf

durabilitybytreatment-BorateTreatedWood.pdf

Piling & Marine Pilings - Decks & Docks Lumber Company

Fiberglass Composite Dock and Pier Pilings | Pearson Pilings

Museum at Campbell River Photo Galleries - Historical Photos | Campbell River Museum - Islands Photo Gallery

mcr020346-4.jpg

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2 hours ago, DDW said:

I remember creosote from my youth on the farm. We used to paint fence posts with it. No sissy gloves or masks or anything either. And I'm fine now. I'm fine now. I'm fine now. I'mmmmm

I can't help but wonder if this explains the true reason why you are so against bull rails, DDW?  Some sort of false, coincidental triggering of your childhood trauma and/or neurological damage, perhaps? ;)  So to use a move that I've seen lawyers effectively, damagingly use: 'You'd agree with me that this certainly throws into question your reliability as an expert witness?'.

:P

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25 minutes ago, J the landlocked dreamer said:

I can't help but wonder if this explains the true reason why you are so against bull rails, DDW?  Some sort of false, coincidental triggering of your childhood trauma and/or neurological damage, perhaps? ;)  So to use a move that I've seen lawyers effectively, damagingly use: 'You'd agree with me that this certainly throws into question your reliability as an expert witness?'.

:P

Creosote poisoning can cause a symptom called myoclonus. A myoclonus is an involuntary jerk of a muscle that ties to bull rails.

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Well, regardless of whether I have an involuntary jerk, ....jerk, ....jerk.....

I do not need to be a reliable witness against the usefulness of bull rails. Their inferiority is immediately self evident to anyone with reasoning ability. You may sort yourselves out on that basis. 

Also, we have the word of God (of the Holy Cleat) on this. This was handed down from God in texts on stone tablets (which have since become broken) with a copy on a book of golden leaves (which has been lost) and another on an 8" floppy drive (which can no longer be read). Being the affirmed word of God (for the texts themselves say so) we can believe them, regardless of what their current status might say about the care and regard given these Sacred Artifacts by the self appointed and anointed apostles. 

Conversely, since bull rails are almost universally made from wood pressure treated with toxic chemicals, those who have used them a lot might also have the same jerk. Jerk. Jerk. Jerk. 

Jerk.

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1 hour ago, TwoLegged said:

So the proponents of bull rails are guilty of both religious heresy and onanism.

Should their punishment be in this life ... or should true believers wait for the retribution of the Gods upon these sinners?

They would only practice onanism once if their hands were covered in creosote.

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1 hour ago, TwoLegged said:

So the proponents of bull rails are guilty of both religious heresy and onanism.

Should their punishment be in this life ... or should true believers wait for the retribution of the Gods upon these sinners?

Bull rails ARE the retribution of the Gods upon these sinners.

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1 hour ago, DDW said:

Well, regardless of whether I have an involuntary jerk, ....jerk, ....jerk.....

I do not need to be a reliable witness against the usefulness of bull rails. Their inferiority is immediately self evident to anyone with reasoning ability. You may sort yourselves out on that basis. 

Also, we have the word of God (of the Holy Cleat) on this. This was handed down from God in texts on stone tablets (which have since become broken) with a copy on a book of golden leaves (which has been lost) and another on an 8" floppy drive (which can no longer be read). Being the affirmed word of God (for the texts themselves say so) we can believe them, regardless of what their current status might say about the care and regard given these Sacred Artifacts by the self appointed and anointed apostles. 

Conversely, since bull rails are almost universally made from wood pressure treated with toxic chemicals, those who have used them a lot might also have the same jerk. Jerk. Jerk. Jerk. 

Jerk.

Uh huh, and you're the one who is talking about metal cleats?  The same metal cleats that are almost always galvanized?  The same galvanization that uses Zinc, and that was assessed in the medical study "Zinc toxicology following particulate inhalation" (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2796768/)?  Similarly, the study "Zinc toxicity among galvanization workers in the iron and steel industry" (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18991923)? 

You’d better watch out DDW, or all of that Zinc is going to make you sink.  <Oh, groan; even I'll admit that that was a horrid pun>.  And you might want to get your ears checked.  Because it would seem that you're mishearing the words as the Herald Angels Sing.  But do stop calling yourself a jerk; you’re much too nice a person for that categorization ;).

<Yes, of course I'm ignoring all sorts of other variables and considerations.  What would be the fun in being thorough on Sailing Anarchy? ;)>

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32 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

They would only practice onanism once if their hands were covered in creosote.

This is the self anointing referred to. 

I think it was the folk singer John Prine who had a parrot that he named Onan, because he kept spilling his seed on the bottom of the cage. 

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On 11/4/2018 at 9:12 AM, Norse Horse said:

CCA is only in older docks and it gets flushed from the surfaces rail over that many years. The product now is Alkaline Copper Quaternary. It is very hard on metal pieces like cleat soles and any fasteners once the galvanizing is eroded or comes off with installation, like those cheap green deck screws.

Borate preservative is now spec'ed used on pier and dock frames and rails by the govt. Pilings have to be steel, a questionable choice given that wood is carbon neutral and can last a hundred years, like the ironwood pilings still in use today. Steel piles come from Asia with a carbon footprint already high from manufacturing and require a zinc.

You have a wood cutting board for a reason, for it's antibacterial properties. Bull rail snot may have some use in society, like pimple remover or engine block cleaner...:D

 

 

The dumb part of steel piles is that they don't ACTUALLY replace the zincs in many places.  Wood piles are more tolerant of this.  The fuel dock here in town has been complaining to the port authority to replace the zincs for going on about two years.   They have the ones hanging on wires so it's easy to do.  They pull the empty ones up and leave them on the dock and then the harbour authority people kick them back in.:lol:

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19 hours ago, Norse Horse said:

I wonder if Two Legged has heard John and Iris sing before...:P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8tTwXv4glY

Wow, Norse.  You read me like a large-print book.

I love John Prine — he's one of my top five favourite singers — and that is my absolute favourite song of his.   I have never done the marrying thing, and doubt I ever will ... but I love that song because I reckon that what it describes is about as good as a marriage gets.  Full awareness of the other spouse's deep failings, and the ability to laugh them off and love the other will no illusions.

Iris Dement's voice is heavenly.  I love southern women's voices, and hers is one of the best.   But whenever I tried to get into her music, I get lost in a swamp when she did Jesus big-time, and that did nothing for me.   Still, she earns her immortality from that one recording.

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I kinda like John Prine too. Who else can start a cheery, uplifting song like this:

"Woke up this morning
Put on my slippers
Walked in the kitchen
And died"

Maybe we can get him to write a ballad about the Holiness of Cleats and Damnation of bull rails.

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2 hours ago, DDW said:

I kinda like John Prine too. Who else can start a cheery, uplifting song like this:

"Woke up this morning
Put on my slippers
Walked in the kitchen
And died"

Maybe we can get him to write a ballad about the Holiness of Cleats and Damnation of bull rails.

DDW, just for you:

Life was stupendous
Until I did an up-endus
with my feets on cleats 
at a rate of 515k plus 999
instead of what could have been a mere 199
Now throbbing toes remind me 
that I, DDW, have been stupidendous
;)

 

<p.s., DDW, you do know that I am just having a bit of light hearted fun here, don't you :D>

ooh, ooh, I'd better put in my peace offering:

689304321_marinepeaceofferingintraditionalformfromajuniormemberv2.jpg.c8e62540292c662b656e0d2a8ed3cd98.jpg

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10 hours ago, J the landlocked dreamer said:

DDW, just for you:

Life was stupendous
Until I did an up-endus
with my feets on cleats 
at a rate of 515k plus 999
instead of what could have been a mere 199
Now throbbing toes remind me 
that I, DDW, have been stupidendous
;)

 

<p.s., DDW, you do know that I am just having a bit of light hearted fun here, don't you :D>

ooh, ooh, I'd better put in my peace offering:

689304321_marinepeaceofferingintraditionalformfromajuniormemberv2.jpg.c8e62540292c662b656e0d2a8ed3cd98.jpg

Hey, you shovel any snow tonight ?:lol:

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1 hour ago, Norse Horse said:

Hey, you shovel any snow tonight ?:lol:

True, I did have to shovel close to 3/4 of an inch of light, powdery winter wonderland snow last night. 

But I suspect that this was easier to do than you with your flowing mud: "North Vancouver residents ordered to leave mudslide site" at https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/north-vancouver-residents-ordered-to-leave-mudslide-site/article20418772/.  And when my dogs came back inside they were happy and clean.  Your dogs probably need a bath once an hour.  Or are you an ogre, and leave them outside on the deck in the perpetual rain? ("... with more rain expected" at https://globalnews.ca/news/4625784/north-shore-slides/

Today in Calgary we have beautiful blue skies.

So pffttttt to you :P

:)

 

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Wow, it will warm up to minus 5 today in Calgary...say, I noticed the weather network has a bug activity forecast as well.

https://www.theweathernetwork.com/ca/36-hour-weather-forecast/alberta/calgary?utm_source=Google&amp;utm_medium=Voltron&amp;utm_campaign=Voltron30&amp;utm_content=&amp;utm_term=%2Bcalgary %2Bweather&amp;gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_dGiuuDC3gIVCMRkCh34JgtWEAAYASAAEgJP_vD_BwE

Is it safe to drive in those swarms of locusts or blackflies? :P

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The Church of the Holy Cleat should be outraged that a competing religion called the Church of the Holiest of Bassmasters, has committed sacrilege by putting the ecclesiastical vestment to their own secular use.

love-to-fish-jenner-t.jpg

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1 hour ago, J the landlocked dreamer said:

Today in Calgary we have beautiful blue skies.

So pffttttt to you :P

:)

 

So do we.

and it's 8 C, heading for 10 C

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19 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

Wow, Norse.  You read me like a large-print book.

I love John Prine — he's one of my top five favourite singers — and that is my absolute favourite song of his.   I have never done the marrying thing, and doubt I ever will ... but I love that song because I reckon that what it describes is about as good as a marriage gets.  Full awareness of the other spouse's deep failings, and the ability to laugh them off and love the other will no illusions.

Iris Dement's voice is heavenly.  I love southern women's voices, and hers is one of the best.   But whenever I tried to get into her music, I get lost in a swamp when she did Jesus big-time, and that did nothing for me.   Still, she earns her immortality from that one recording.

That's a regional accent that has all but vanished in the US -- Ozark Pentecostal. Iris plays it up a little, which is why she sounds like something straight outta an Alan Lomax field recording. While the themes are mainstream bluegrass/Appalachian, the accent itself is closer to Kansas /Missouri than to (say) North Carolina or Alabama. Here's a fabulous version of "Froggy Went a'Courting" from 1959: vowels sharper than a fresh-stropped straight razor, and maybe not that far from Elizabethan street English.

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3 hours ago, Norse Horse said:

The Church of the Holy Cleat should be outraged that a competing religion called the Church of the Holiest of Bassmasters, has committed sacrilege by putting the ecclesiastical vestment to their own secular use.

love-to-fish-jenner-t.jpg

Reminds me if one of Gary Larson's classic cartoons.

 

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Okay, up to this point we have yet to discuss the different "BullRail Sects". Are ye' from the Holy Church of the Wooden BullRail? Or from the Metal BullRail Sect? Aren't wars started over things like this?

 

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14 minutes ago, woahboy said:

Okay, up to this point we have yet to discuss the different "BullRail Sects". Are ye' from the Holy Church of the Wooden BullRail? Or from the Metal BullRail Sect? Aren't wars started over things like this?

 

Our holy brothers, the metal rails, come from the same father, the unhewn holy round wood bull rail and his father, the holiest father wood bollard, son of the bole of the strongest pseudotsuga menziesii, of which the Lord created.

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3 minutes ago, Norse Horse said:

Our holy brothers, the metal rails, come from the same father, the unhewn holy round wood bull rail and his father, the holiest father wood bollard, son of the bole of the strongest pseudotsuga menziesii, of which the Lord created.

I had to look the "pseudotsuga menziesii" up. And now I can say that I've learned something today. But Douglas Fir is easier on the tongue.

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The Dinghy Dock Pub, complete with bull rails and the well known owner at the 920 mark to 13 something.

Makes for an interesting video series when he talks to the locals.

 

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8 minutes ago, woahboy said:

I had to look the "pseudotsuga menziesii" up. And now I can say that I've learned something today. But Douglas Fir is easier on the tongue.

Not only am I a Bullrail Preacher but a man gardener;)

I have preached bull for 11 years. Oh wait...

ce4.jpg

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9 hours ago, Diarmuid said:

That's a regional accent that has all but vanished in the US -- Ozark Pentecostal. Iris plays it up a little, which is why she sounds like something straight outta an Alan Lomax field recording. While the themes are mainstream bluegrass/Appalachian, the accent itself is closer to Kansas /Missouri than to (say) North Carolina or Alabama. Here's a fabulous version of "Froggy Went a'Courting" from 1959: vowels sharper than a fresh-stropped straight razor, and maybe not that far from Elizabethan street English.

Thanks, Diarmuid.  That's a wonderful recording.

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Some people think the tight vowels come from Cornwall, where both the Brittonic Celtic (extinct as a natural tongue) and Cornwall English express similar vowel sounds.  Dunno, tho -- the Cornish populations in the US tended to work the coal & hard rock mines farther north, while Kansas and Arkansas settlers were hardscrabble farmers from the go. (Lots of Cornish in the Canadian Maritimes, obvs.)

Speaker of revived Cornish, so different from Irish or Scots Gaelic (more front-of-mouth);  and a farmer with fine Cornwall English dialect.

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On 11/7/2018 at 6:55 AM, Norse Horse said:

Look at this setup required just to tie to a cleat in a storm. A bull rail does this spring naturally and you don't need to do that tire thing...-_-

Dock Line Death Test - Sailfeed

That's got nothing to do with bull rails or cleats. If the bull rail is enough of a noodle to provide meaningful shock absorption, it will be broken out in no time. If fact with surge, bull rails are extra bad because your springs walk down the rail until they hit one of the supports, then they chafe through. I could show you several examples of Bull Rail Chafe ® acquired in Newfoundland in a 3 day gale. 

 

18 hours ago, woahboy said:

Okay, up to this point we have yet to discuss the different "BullRail Sects". Are ye' from the Holy Church of the Wooden BullRail? Or from the Metal BullRail Sect? Aren't wars started over things like this?

 

Here we have a small boat being put on the dock in dead calm conditions. And still it takes her about 3 times as long as it would have, if cleats were provided. I want to see that video reshot with a 30,000 lb 45' boat in a 20 knot off the dock crosswind. Not a walk in the park with cleats, and damn near impossible with bull rails - you just can't make the lines up fast enough, nor can you sweat them in. If I have to chose though, I'll take the metal bull rails over wood. The lines slide over them with less friction, no splinters, and less Bull Rail Slime ® and seagull shit sticks to them. 

 

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1 hour ago, DDW said:

That's got nothing to do with bull rails or cleats. If the bull rail is enough of a noodle to provide meaningful shock absorption, it will be broken out in no time. If fact with surge, bull rails are extra bad because your springs walk down the rail until they hit one of the supports, then they chafe through. I could show you several examples of Bull Rail Chafe ® acquired in Newfoundland in a 3 day gale. 

 

Here we have a small boat being put on the dock in dead calm conditions. And still it takes her about 3 times as long as it would have, if cleats were provided. I want to see that video reshot with a 30,000 lb 45' boat in a 20 knot off the dock crosswind. Not a walk in the park with cleats, and damn near impossible with bull rails - you just can't make the lines up fast enough, nor can you sweat them in. If I have to chose though, I'll take the metal bull rails over wood. The lines slide over them with less friction, no splinters, and less Bull Rail Slime ® and seagull shit sticks to them. 

 

Bull rails fail when fasteners are too close to the ends or a lag screw uplifts. Rails are cut from the heart of the tree and thus offer spring in all directions. It is true springs can walk but in a storm but his can be mitigated by a longer spring, a choker or tying the bitter end back to the upstand. 60 foot fishing boats tie up to bull rails. I get gale force winds in our docks multiple times every winter, exposed to the mountain blasts. I have storm watched the docks in gales over 50 knots and watched boats heel 20 degrees in the winds. I use 4 springs and use a midship line. Failure usually begins with the dock fingers, as they let go from not being through bolted, washered and reinforced. That has nothing to do with how the boats are tied. Cleats abrade as well as bull rails hence the metal on metal storm setup in the link. My mock was the tire setup, but we all know they work. Will a cleat outperform a bull rail? Sure if it is 18in and through bolted but a 6 or a 9 with it's associated fastener size is the structural limits. Cleats are subject to metal fatigue while the wood gets harder to a point, like a baseball bat. When it has a certain moisture content it retains pliability.

I have to agree with the comments on the docking video. Her first job after jumping off and not breaking her leg on the rounded rail, is to take a bight of that midship line and get it around the rail twice to stop the boat forward motion if necessary and keep the boat tight to the dock. Many do this all the time singlehanded and have no trouble stepping off and securing the boat amidships in wind and current with a bight and 2 half hitches. It takes seconds and the boat is secure enough to grab the much longer bow line and set it no matter the windage. I even leave the 2 hitches set and secure the end of the bight with the bitter end passed through the loop.

We get 16ft of tide range here and have had a 1 and a half of storm surge, to put our ramp pointing up at the floats. I am amazed that things hold together in those conditions, where the floats are levering on the wood pilings but they flex nicely, something steel piles will not do unless they are built with a thinner sidewall.

Cheers DDW

 

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Here is the next Sea Bear video, with some good drone footage of Shoal Bay, bull rails and some views from the hike there. Not the float plane traffic and the monster yachts sitting in shoal bay. I've seen a few boats drag anchor in here so it can be an entertaining place. The dock is usually packed in the summer due to it's proximity to the tide gate.

 

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12 hours ago, Norse Horse said:

Here is the next Sea Bear video, with some good drone footage of Shoal Bay, bull rails and some views from the hike there. Not the float plane traffic and the monster yachts sitting in shoal bay. I've seen a few boats drag anchor in here so it can be an entertaining place. The dock is usually packed in the summer due to it's proximity to the tide gate.

 

I was bummed he stopped making films.  I was really interested when he started.

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The comparison of an inadequate 6 or 9 inch cleat to a bull rail is unpersuasive. Of course you can install cleats too small or too far apart. Just as you can install bull rails wrong. 

My dislike of them does not come from unfamiliarity. I'm all too familiar. Yes, I've tied up my boat to them (45' and 30,000 lbs) single handed in a cross wind. It is so much easier, quicker, and more secure with cleats. Getting a line twice around a bull rail takes far longer, for anyone familiar with both, than a cleat hitch. A half turn on a cleat and you are effectively snubbing the line. It takes virtually no slack in the line, and does not require access to the end of it. Less than a second later the hitch is made. It takes a full turn on a bull rail to get much snubbing, while the line is moving. It requires access to the end or at least a large bight passed around the rail - very awkward when in a hurry. Then you must make another turn for a clove hitch (if tied off the neatest way), or at least a half hitch (and this will slip along the rail). A cleat can even be lassoed from the deck - good luck doing that with a bull rail. There is the additional problem of adjusting or sweating in the lines. Again very simple and easy with cleats, and time consuming and difficult with bull rails. And yes I know how, and yes I do both all the time. 

Say Hallelujah and Amen. I'll make a challenge: On a line pulling away with about a 75 lb load, you tie it off to a bull rail, then sweat it in 4 feet. I'll do it on a cleat. Longest time buys the beer, shortest time drinks it. Really should do 4 lines (bow, stern and two breast) but I'd be drunk. 

I've been by Shoal Bay a few times on my way north or south. Interesting stretch of the Cordero. Also been into Cordero Lodge (when they were still sort of open) and Blind Channel. 

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