Auld Mug 1 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Q; who has sailed or been involved in the most AC's without success?... A clue... its 10 attempts, as helmsmen, crew, coach,tactical advisor. And its not Chris Dickson. Link to post Share on other sites
kiwi_jon 3 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 That's easy. Rod Davis, currently Artemis coach. What do I win? Link to post Share on other sites
~HHN92~ 123 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Not much... Link to post Share on other sites
vij 3 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 considering who is asking the correct answer should be Barker or Dalton. Link to post Share on other sites
Nutta 454 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Barker is his Dad... Link to post Share on other sites
Auld Mug 1 Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 That's easy. Rod Davis, currently Artemis coach. What do I win? Correct!.and that is why Artemis will not win the AC. Link to post Share on other sites
Auld Mug 1 Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 Q2 - Name the sailor/s that have helmed a boat to olympic gold, a AC win, and a around the world/VOR race win. ... Link to post Share on other sites
SimonN 380 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I don't think anybody has helmed all 3. John Kostecki comes closest having got a silver in the olymics, won the VOR and he has been on the winning crew for the AC, but not as helm. Link to post Share on other sites
Schakel 128 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Morning guys how are you today: Quiz.. Which of the following is not an Olympic Class Anymore: 1 Star class 2 Laser 3 Finn 4 Elliot Take your pick. The right answer is? Link to post Share on other sites
Auld Mug 1 Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 I don't think anybody has helmed all 3. John Kostecki comes closest having got a silver in the olymics, won the VOR and he has been on the winning crew for the AC, but not as helm. Dennis Conner comes closest with olympic gold, AC wins, and a good Whitbread attempt albeit with a spilt helm position on Winston. If coutts or ainslie won a VOR then they would be the men! Link to post Share on other sites
SimonN 380 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I don't think anybody has helmed all 3. John Kostecki comes closest having got a silver in the olymics, won the VOR and he has been on the winning crew for the AC, but not as helm. Dennis Conner comes closest with olympic gold, AC wins, and a good Whitbread attempt albeit with a spilt helm position on Winston. DC only won "bronze" at the Olympics and Winston came 6th. I think that means that Kostecki is closest, although it depends on how you view his role in AC33 when he was the tactician. Does full time tactician on a winner trump part time helm in 6th place? Link to post Share on other sites
Auld Mug 1 Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 I don't think anybody has helmed all 3. John Kostecki comes closest having got a silver in the olymics, won the VOR and he has been on the winning crew for the AC, but not as helm. Dennis Conner comes closest with olympic gold, AC wins, and a good Whitbread attempt albeit with a spilt helm position on Winston. DC only won "bronze" at the Olympics and Winston came 6th. I think that means that Kostecki is closest, although it depends on how you view his role in AC33 when he was the tactician. Does full time tactician on a winner trump part time helm in 6th place? Yeah thats right he won two world champs in the star And a bronze in olympics. Good point...maybe? There are guys who have won all three as crew. Link to post Share on other sites
Schakel 128 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Nice neglect, 1 Star is not olympic anymore is the correct answer. Cheers mate. Link to post Share on other sites
hhn92 43 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 DC won bronze in the Tempest. Link to post Share on other sites
lukepiewalker 13 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Morning guys how are you today: Quiz.. Which of the following is not an Olympic Class Anymore: 1 Star class 2 Laser 3 Finn 4 Elliot Take your pick. The right answer is? Has the Elliot not been ditched too? Link to post Share on other sites
freddy 7 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 What crew have won all 3?? Link to post Share on other sites
Chainlocker 16 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Morning guys how are you today: Quiz.. Which of the following is not an Olympic Class Anymore: 1 Star class 2 Laser 3 Finn 4 Elliot Take your pick. The right answer is? Has the Elliot not been ditched too? Elliot 6m was a one Olympic wonder, 2012 Women's Match Racing, which is no more along with keelboats in the Olympics today. Link to post Share on other sites
Schakel 128 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Morning guys how are you today: Quiz.. Which of the following is not an Olympic Class Anymore: 1 Star class 2 Laser 3 Finn 4 Elliot Take your pick. The right answer is? Has the Elliot not been ditched too? You are right. One month ago it wasn't https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_at_the_2016_Summer_Olympics Link to post Share on other sites
Chainlocker 16 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Morning guys how are you today: Quiz.. Which of the following is not an Olympic Class Anymore: 1 Star class 2 Laser 3 Finn 4 Elliot Take your pick. The right answer is? Has the Elliot not been ditched too?You are right. One month ago it wasn'thttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_at_the_2016_Summer_Olympics I thought the Star and Elliot (women's match racing)" was voted out a while ago. Link to post Share on other sites
Schakel 128 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Morning guys how are you today: Quiz.. Which of the following is not an Olympic Class Anymore: 1 Star class 2 Laser 3 Finn 4 Elliot Take your pick. The right answer is? Has the Elliot not been ditched too?You are right. One month ago it wasn'thttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_at_the_2016_Summer_Olympics I thought the Star and Elliot (women's match racing)" was voted out a while ago. What was the reason they ditched women's match racing. Too expensive? Link to post Share on other sites
Chainlocker 16 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 ^^ Probably had something to do with which boatbuilders came up with the best kick-back package. And the highest bidders for the 2016 Olympic Sailing Classes are... Link to post Share on other sites
dogwatch 728 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 One of the people very much involved in that decision is well known to me and has given back more to the sport than I suspect you ever have. Thanks for the random smear, tosser. Link to post Share on other sites
Schakel 128 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 ^^ Probably had something to do with which boatbuilders came up with the best kick-back package. And the highest bidders for the 2016 Olympic Sailing Classes are... RS:X Laser Radial Laser Finn 470 49erFX 49er Nacra 17 Link to post Share on other sites
Schakel 128 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Which of the following historical AC yachts is the longest: 1. Endeavour 2. Rainbow 3. Reliance 4. Alinghi Sui Link to post Share on other sites
AndreasE 10 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Reliance 144 feet Link to post Share on other sites
Schakel 128 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 What crew have won all 3?? Phew.. difficult one. Gamma's, Ainslie, Outerridge? Link to post Share on other sites
freddy 7 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Cammas never won Olympic, or even come close to America's Cup. Ainslie never competed in VOR. Outridge never won AC or VOR, so you will have to try a lot harder to come up with anyone. Kostecki is certainly one of the closest, with VOR win (Illbruck), Cup win in the dodgy DOG match and involved in most of the 2013 San Fran win and a silver in the games. Conner isn't really close, with no Olympic gold, and his VOR/Whitbread participation was mostly as a Syndicate leader who raised funds, did a couple of legs, never came on deck and didn't do very well. Few interesting ones like Calafat (470, Alinghi but any VOR?), don't think Schumann ever did VOR, maybe some Kiwis? Link to post Share on other sites
Schakel 128 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Cammas never won Olympic, or even come close to America's Cup. Ainslie never competed in VOR. Outridge never won AC or VOR, so you will have to try a lot harder to come up with anyone. Kostecki is certainly one of the closest, with VOR win (Illbruck), Cup win in the dodgy DOG match and involved in most of the 2013 San Fran win and a silver in the games. Conner isn't really close, with no Olympic gold, and his VOR/Whitbread participation was mostly as a Syndicate leader who raised funds, did a couple of legs, never came on deck and didn't do very well. Few interesting ones like Calafat (470, Alinghi but any VOR?), don't think Schumann ever did VOR, maybe some Kiwis? Fellow yachtclub member Dirk de Ridder. 1998 - Whitbread Round the World Race, 2e 1999 - Tour de France à la Voile, Mumm 36, 1999 - WK, Soling, 1999 - EK, Soling, 2000 - Kieler Zeilweek, Soling 2000 - OS, Soling, 4e 2002 - Volvo Ocean Race, winnaar 2006 - Volvo Ocean Race, 2e 2006 - MedCup, TP52, winnaar 2007 - Hublot Palmavela Trophy, TP52, winnaar 2010 - America's Cup, winnaar Source: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirk_de_Ridder I met him 2 days ago again and we had a big laugh about his ban.. Link to post Share on other sites
Trovão 514 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Q2 - Name the sailor/s that have helmed a boat to olympic gold, a AC win, and a around the world/VOR race win. ... torben grael has plenty of olympic medals (gold, silver and bronze), won the vor and was tactician aboard luna rossa. that's the closest i can find. Link to post Share on other sites
~Stingray~~ 38 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I think too that Kostecki has come the cloesest. Did AC-winner Grant Simmer do a VOR or Olympics? Butterworth? Murray? Daubney? Link to post Share on other sites
Newfoundlander 0 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Paul Cayard comes close with Gold in Star (1988) VOR win (97/98) and on the winning LV boat but losing A/C boat (92 - 95 - 2000) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Cayard Link to post Share on other sites
Auld Mug 1 Posted December 23, 2015 Author Share Posted December 23, 2015 Dickson... AC - nope whitbread/vor - nope Olympics - nope Coutts 2 out of three blackaller- nope j.Schuman - nope Bertrand - nope ... Link to post Share on other sites
sunseeker 154 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Paul Cayard comes close with Gold in Star (1988) VOR win (97/98) and on the winning LV boat but losing A/C boat (92 - 95 - 2000) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Cayard That's a Star Worlds Cayard won. He sailed in one Olympics and was 5th, or so. Winning a Star Worlds is a far bigger deal than winning the Olympics though. Link to post Share on other sites
Frank White 29 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Stevie Ericson? Star worlds and Olympic gold, Volvo winner on EF Language, AC finalist with Prada, may have been involved with one of the US teams defense in San Diego also? Link to post Share on other sites
Handley Richard 0 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 John Kostecki.. Silver in the Soling Class illbruck skipper in the Whitbread Oracle in the DoG and last cup. Link to post Share on other sites
Auld Mug 1 Posted December 24, 2015 Author Share Posted December 24, 2015 There is No skipper/helmsman that has done all three!? But what about crew? Link to post Share on other sites
nav 590 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Louis Vuitton réunit 3 grands trophées sportifs au Grand Palais http://www.sportsmarketing.fr/louis-vuitton-trophees-coupe-du-monde-football-rugby-americas-cup-grand-palais/ Name all countries that has held at least 2 of these.... Link to post Share on other sites
Nutta 454 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 That third trophy is for cheats and amateur actors (specialising in lingering death scenes). The ball is also round, i.e. the wrong shape! Link to post Share on other sites
Schakel 128 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 New Zealand owned world cup rugby three times and America's cup twice. Australia owned world cup rugby twice and America's cup once. The United Kingdom won fifa worldcup once and world rugby once. France, in the near future, will have owned; and the FIFA world cup and the America's Cup. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America%27s_Cup https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_World_Cup https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_World_Cup Link to post Share on other sites
nav 590 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 ^ he's good - (only the U.K. does not compete in the Football or Rugby World Cups). How many succesful defences of their 'Cups' - by NZ, Oz or England Link to post Share on other sites
Schakel 128 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 ^ he's good - (only the U.K. does not compete in the Football or Rugby World Cups). How many succesful defences of their 'Cups' - by NZ, Oz or England England is part of the United Kingdom. Team Bar has the Union Jack as a flag and the UK as their nationality. England won the fifa cup in 1966 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966_FIFA_World_Cup In 2003 england won the world rugby cup. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Rugby_World_Cup Those are the facts. Link to post Share on other sites
nav 590 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 ^ In sport as in many other things the U.K. (and sometimes Ireland) has some anachronistic features. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is recognised as a single Nation in most International forums, the citizens all have the same U.K. (EU member nation) passport for example. But U.K. the nation is represented in Rugby for example by three teams, England, Scotland and Wales. And then again it competes in the Olympics as 'Great Britain'. In some sports Ireland and Northern Ireland compete in a combined team, but otherwise those in the north might seem to be missing out?! (Consequently this will lead to the bizarre situation where in the Rio Olympics 2016 the 'nation' Great Britain will be represented by only players eligible for the 'nation' England - so mostly Fijians and Samoans , in the Rugby Sevens) So parts of the UK often compete against other parts of the UK in sport and it was 'England' - on it's own, that won the Football and Rugby World Cups. The United Kingdom won fifa worldcup once and world rugby once. Link to post Share on other sites
nav 590 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 JS with the trophies ^ https://www.periscope.tv/w/1ynJObBbpBEGR Link to post Share on other sites
Schakel 128 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 In the grand palais somewhere in Paris they showed the three cups together: Jimmy Spithill was also present together with two another very famous sportmen that I have never heard of. The other two cups are made of gold or goldplated but there are two things that the america's cup absolutely has the record for. Name the two facts. Link to post Share on other sites
Nutta 454 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 It's pretty old (oldest international sporting trophy). It's the only cup to have had a sledgehammer installed in it? Link to post Share on other sites
Schakel 128 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 It's pretty old (oldest international sporting trophy). It's the only cup to have had a sledgehammer installed in it? Haha that's funny. You refer to the aboriginal accident where the cup was smashed.It's the tallest of the three cups shown! Link to post Share on other sites
Nutta 454 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 1997 was a good year for trophy repairers... Link to post Share on other sites
Schakel 128 Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Very important question: (Otherwise you won't understand the design contest in the ac 35.) Will the Turbo (T version) Sport (S version) race?Answer provided by Jack Griffin: Ted: Will the "Turbo" and "Sport" boats race?Jack: Short answer: No. Longer answer: Those boats are for testing design ideas and developing crew work but the only racing they will do is informal racing during training. In 2015 and 2016 the teams race one design AC45F catamarans with battery powered daggerboard rake controls. In 2017 the teams will race their own design "America's Cup Class" catamarans which may only use power manually generated by the crew to move the daggerboards, to change the rudder rake and to trim the wing and the jib. Since the control systems for the AC Class boats are such an important part of the design, the Turbo and Sport boats are being used to test those systems and to decide how to manage the limited power available from four grinders. Those control systems will be top secret and inside the hulls, so we won't get to see them. But winning the America's Cup in 2017 will depend on those systems and how well the crews learn to use them. Source: http://us5.campaign-archive1.com/?u=5b22acb550cbb7053ea617522&id=c1a1ba439d&e=75ea6378bf You can mail Jack Griffin directly on this subject. http://www.cupexperience.com/ask-jack-2/ Link to post Share on other sites
nav 590 Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 ^ LARBAR has quite a bit exposed outside the hulls of their T boats at times. Battery power on an AC45 for foil rake, is that how it's done? Link to post Share on other sites
JackGriffin 1 Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 ^ LARBAR has quite a bit exposed outside the hulls of their T boats at times. Battery power on an AC45 for foil rake, is that how it's done? "... quite a bit exposed outside the hulls..." Think about it. Why would they do that? "Battery power on an AC45 for foil rake..." How did you think they were doing it? Link to post Share on other sites
Chainlocker 16 Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I believe it is only the board control rams that are exposed on LRBAR which would lead me to believe that they are building the test systems to full size AC50 spec, and that they would be covered in the final AC50 class hulls and aero package. Link to post Share on other sites
Schakel 128 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 ^ LARBAR has quite a bit exposed outside the hulls of their T boats at times. Battery power on an AC45 for foil rake, is that how it's done? "... quite a bit exposed outside the hulls..." Think about it. Why would they do that? "Battery power on an AC45 for foil rake..." How did you think they were doing it? The way I see it, is replacement of hydraulics to "fly by wire systems." Electromotors driven by batteries. Easier to maintain, more reliable, more vunerable to water. (electrocircuits will have to be waterproof for obvious reasons) Under the rules as stated above the cup is more and more moving towards a push button boat ,where the electricity is being delivered by the grinders. No more peak loads, but steady uploading of batteries and far more power by the electromotor when you need it. (An electromotor instantly deliveres torque) For this charactaristics the brushed DC is suitable for adjustment of foil angle. (High loads) More background on the various types and characteristics of direct current motors here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brushe..._of_a_DC_motor Link to post Share on other sites
nav 590 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 ^ Are you speaking about the set up on the ACWS boats mentioned above, or suggesting that electric motors can replace hydraulics under the ACC rule - or experimentally on the T/S boats??? It's one thing to find a potential improvement, but quite another to get it past the 'mother-knows-best', 1D, AC rule makers Link to post Share on other sites
Schakel 128 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 ^ Are you speaking about the set up on the ACWS boats mentioned above, or suggesting that electric motors can replace hydraulics under the ACC rule - or experimentally on the T/S boats??? It's one thing to find a potential improvement, but quite another to get it past the 'mother-knows-best', 1D, AC rule makers Why not use electronic controll in foilers and wings? Hydraulics is expensive, not easy to maintain, energy ineffecient and heavy. And less reliable then fly by wire. (Unless shunted by waterleaks) It has to be proven one can make the electronic systems waterproof. Under the almost water jet conditions of the AC45's, that will not be easy. So first experimental on the S and T types, later on the final ac's for 35th cup. I had the impression these rules let any improvement on measuring regulating systems free to the teams. I'll ask Jack Griffin what his opinion is about this. Link to post Share on other sites
nav 590 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 ^ Or read the rules.. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ILsDddo2xuPlx47DHh2qyEpRz5WA9yn6U1PCEpTTvsvbQkJqfnSspJd-1y43dx0L7rzb9w=s190 https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/DcbsKCZ9gzreJM40gckxxONQ20q7-kaSQ2pCrCvPTH3C_7AjXMMWWF9q3-trY2xgg1bRaA=s190 They are experimenting on the test boats, they are (or were) also using power packs, but only to drive the hydraulics to save crew for other activities during the testing phase. Do you think they'd be going to all that trouble and partnering with Parker Hannifin, the auto and aircraft industries to gain hydraulic expertise and parts - if they intended to toss the whole lot for manually driven generators, battery banks and electric motors - and all before the designs are finalised (next week )? Link to post Share on other sites
Chainlocker 16 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 The ACEA and the teams have gone to great lengths to keep batteries, stored power and electric motors out of the operation of the actual AC competition boats. The batteries in the AC45 one designs is a neccesary evil to control the foil rake as adding a grinder and the needed hydrolics to power the foils would have been not only expensive but would have required a massive modification of the non foiling cat. Electrical power for the AC50 will not happen, not only because of the rules, but because of the stigma of using electric motors to run the boats. Link to post Share on other sites
Tornado-Cat 1,078 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 They probably use the batteries on Ts to safely test the systems and how much energy they need in order to find the solution fitting in the proper envelope. Link to post Share on other sites
Schakel 128 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 ^ Or read the rules.. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ILsDddo2xuPlx47DHh2qyEpRz5WA9yn6U1PCEpTTvsvbQkJqfnSspJd-1y43dx0L7rzb9w=s190 https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/DcbsKCZ9gzreJM40gckxxONQ20q7-kaSQ2pCrCvPTH3C_7AjXMMWWF9q3-trY2xgg1bRaA=s190 They are experimenting on the test boats, they are (or were) also using power packs, but only to drive the hydraulics to save crew for other activities during the testing phase. Do you think they'd be going to all that trouble and partnering with Parker Hannifin, the auto and aircraft industries to gain hydraulic expertise and parts - if they intended to toss the whole lot for manually driven generators, battery banks and electric motors - and all before the designs are finalised (next week )? Rules can be changed and the links you provided gives forbidden as 403 warning. The combination of hydraulics and electro is where the strength is. So you pump oil with an electromoter driven hydraulics pump. Prestored power from the grinders in accu's when you need it. Electronic rollers on L foilers so you can rise and lower them very quickly with power much greater then muscle power. Can also been done for adjusting the wing to the opposite position during tacking. Fast and reliable when properly tested. Proven in superyacht industry and on the 90 x 90 Alinghi and Oracle DOG multi's in AC 33. It will feel and look like a computer regulated push button boat. What is so bad about that? Oracle also owns java. Java is the regulating system in the dedicated circuits of your car, refrigarator, washing machines, mobile phone, game toy, computer and even airplanes. List of even more java applications: http://www.geom.uiuc.edu/~slevy/si/u_pkg_java102/docs/javaone/strat/JavApps.pdf Why not regulate a foiler catamaran with this world wide spread technology? Link to post Share on other sites
Schakel 128 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 The idea of hydraulic pumps is confirmed by Jack Griffin in a personal mail I recieved via Cup experience.Copied with permission from Jack: (Jack's comment in red) The question Nav asked in the AC quiz thread is a complicated one.I quote:"LARBAR has quite a bit exposed outside the hulls of their T boats at times.The hydraulic ram outside the hull was not there when the boat launched. In their “Fighter Jet” video you never see more than about 2 seconds of foiling at a time. They did major work on the boat after the first day that they sailed it. When it relaunched, the ram was outside the hull. Maybe they underestimated the friction in the daggerboard cage bearing and needed more leverage by moving the ram? Battery power on an AC45 for foil rake, is that how it's done?" This question is about the AC45F one design. Yes of course that’s how the daggerboards are raked. Battery powered hydraulic pump in the hull. Here is the "Fighter Jet on Water" clip he means.http://land-rover-bar.americascup.com/en/news/199_A-Fighter-Jet-on-Water.html Link to post Share on other sites
Chainlocker 16 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 It is pretty much common knowledge on this thread and AC Forum that the test boats (Sport and Turbo) use hydrolic pumps to operate the foils, and as the boats evolve; wings. The pressure is generated by the grinders. The first test boats had one grinding station, so with limited ability to create pressure, some battery power was needed to power these controls. The new test boats (like OR Sport III) have increased grinding stations and are now relying on human powered hydrolic pumps with minimal batteries. The AC45s have basic wings that are manually operated. Because there are no grinding stations (only winches) the foils require electrically actuated hydraulics. When the AC50's are launched the only batteries will be for radio, lights and instrumentation. All boat controls will be human powered hydraulics. Link to post Share on other sites
nav 590 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 The ACEA and the teams have gone to great lengths to keep batteries, stored power and electric motors out of the operation of the actual AC competition boats. The batteries in the AC45 one designs is a neccesary evil to control the foil rake as adding a grinder and the needed hydrolics to power the foils would have been not only expensive but would have required a massive modification of the non foiling cat. Electrical power for the AC50 will not happen, not only because of the rules, but because of the stigma of using electric motors to run the boats. If the power is manually generated - why is their any stigma as to how it's stored and dispersed? It is pretty much common knowledge on this thread and AC Forum that the test boats (Sport and Turbo) use hydrolic pumps to operate the foils, and as the boats evolve; wings. The pressure is generated by the grinders. The first test boats had one grinding station, so with limited ability to create pressure, some battery power was needed to power these controls. The new test boats (like OR Sport III) have increased grinding stations and are now relying on human powered hydrolic pumps with minimal batteries. The AC45s have basic wings that are manually operated. Because there are no grinding stations (only winches) the foils require electrically actuated hydraulics. When the AC50's are launched the only batteries will be for radio, lights and instrumentation. All boat controls will be human powered hydraulics. According to Oracle's recent PR and some earlier from LARBAR, the power on the S/T boats is produced by 'powerpacks' during certain test phases. Oracle announced they were 'switching to manual' (OTUSA thread) now that major testing was completed by removing the powerpacks to get closer to 'normal' ACC/AC15/AC50 conditions for ongoing crew training. Link to post Share on other sites
Chainlocker 16 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Nav, there is nothing different from what I wrote or what you added. As far as stigma, could you imagine the comments if the AC50's were totally push button with electric motors running the show? It takes a lot more "hump" to grind out the hydraulic pressure they need to run the controls than turning a generator to charge a battery. As the teams get closer to designing their final control systems, the more they will operate the Sport/Turbos like the AC50 with manually generated hydraulic pressure for all systems so the "hampsters" can get used to race conditions. Link to post Share on other sites
nav 590 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 ^ One difference ^ is the reasons behind the initial use of - and eventual elimination of, electric power aboard... But leaving that aside, if it's 'easier' (as you state) to produce and utilise kW via a generator/battery/electric motor than it is via a hydraulic system, why would you automatically be against that innovation. Not relevent for AC35 but maybe 36 - if they can get away from such a prescriptive rule that is. Link to post Share on other sites
~Stingray~~ 38 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 I like the philosophy behind the boats being manually powered for several reasons, some being simply aesthetic. But one of the more technical reasons is that it may, due to the power constraints, lead to the design of more efficient control systems; ones that would have a better trickle-down effect to other platforms - even if those other platforms did include some kind of (hopefully more minimal this way) stored power. Link to post Share on other sites
nav 590 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 I like the philosophy behind the boats being manually powered for several reasons, some being simply aesthetic. But one of the more technical reasons is that it may, due to the power constraints, lead to the design of more efficient control systems; ones that would have a better trickle-down effect to other platforms - even if those other platforms did include some kind of (hopefully more minimal this way) stored power. The present rules allow for stored power. And no one here has suggested any non-manual power system. The question is whether there is value in considering anything other than hydraulics (next time) Link to post Share on other sites
~Stingray~~ 38 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 I like the philosophy behind the boats being manually powered for several reasons, some being simply aesthetic. But one of the more technical reasons is that it may, due to the power constraints, lead to the design of more efficient control systems; ones that would have a better trickle-down effect to other platforms - even if those other platforms did include some kind of (hopefully more minimal this way) stored power. The present rules allow for stored power. And no one here has suggested any non-manual power system. The question is whether there is value in considering anything other than hydraulics (next time) oops, should have written "even if those other platforms did include some kind of (hopefully more minimal this way) non-manually-generated power" Yes, there clearly are alternatives to hydraulics that may work well in future designs. Link to post Share on other sites
Chainlocker 16 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 When generating electricity with a simple generator, resistance on the armature never changes. You pass the magnets past the coils faster for more generation of power, slower for less. As pressure builds in the hydraulic system, resistance increases. This makes the production of pressure to the hydraulic systems more of an athletic feat than the generation of electrical energy. At least the thought of manually "pumping hydraulics" sounds a bit more athletic than "charging batteries". Link to post Share on other sites
nav 590 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 As you will - but that's a pretty weak argument IMO. Wouldn't it be amusing if a more efficient system was built - but some teams wouldn't change because it was not 'manly' enough. a kW is always a kW and... electro hamster = hydro hamster! Link to post Share on other sites
Chainlocker 16 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Mr. Fusion off the stern. Powered by garbage collected from the shoreline at the regatta to reset the green agenda. Dr. Emmitt Brown, where are you? 1.21 gigowatts at the touch of a finger! That's an outstanding goal for AC36. Link to post Share on other sites
Moonduster 314 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Technically, England held the America's Cup, which they then gifted to the schooner America in 1851. They've never won it, but they've certainly held it. Link to post Share on other sites
nav 590 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I think you'll find that it was offered (in perpetuity) to the winner of a one off race around the Isle of Wight - until it had been raced for and won, it was 'held' by no one, after the race it was owned - by the owners of 'America'. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.