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WCB

By WCB,
in Dinghy Anarchy

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mikegt4

mikegt4 5

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Grestone said:

What am I looking at here?  It's listed as a 17ft Brunswick with a jib for $850

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/boa/d/gilbert-sailboat-17-foot-daysailer/7170498770.html01313_hgW8wPjHEDg_0CI0t2_1200x900.jpg

It is a US Yachts/Bayliner Buccaneer 180 (not to be confused with a Chrysler Buccaneer 18). Brunswick owns or has owned many boat companies, usually buying up dying brands or bankruptcies. The sellers first line is telling, quoting a "750 pound capacity" says "I am not an experienced sailor".  Extolling a Brunswick lineage is another clue.

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/buccaneer-180

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunswick_Boat_Group

 

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Steve Clark

Vanguard was the boat building side of Harken.  After having all the skin burned off their fingers by 470 International being unwilling to enforce the class rules prior to the 1984 Olympics. A long st

craigiri

Well, for better of worse, I will be the new owner of that LadySlipper (whitehall type) craigslist find.  Thanks for whoever posted it (or no thanks if it falls apart and sinks!).....no, I think

Alan Crawford

That one's too good to not immortalize  here with a screen shot of the listing before it's gone! I would only add in the description that besides the YouTube videos, there is plenty of expert commenta

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Steam Flyer

Steam Flyer 6,270

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, mikegt4 said:
14 hours ago, Grestone said:

What am I looking at here?  It's listed as a 17ft Brunswick with a jib for $850

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/boa/d/gilbert-sailboat-17-foot-daysailer/7170498770.html01313_hgW8wPjHEDg_0CI0t2_1200x900.jpg

It is a US Yachts/Bayliner Buccaneer 180 (not to be confused with a Chrysler Buccaneer 18). Brunswick owns or has owned many boat companies, usually buying up dying brands or bankruptcies. The sellers first line is telling, quoting a "750 pound capacity" says "I am not an experienced sailor".  Extolling a Brunswick lineage is another clue.

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/buccaneer-180

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunswick_Boat_Group

It's actually not a bad little boat, if you want an 18ft cuddy cabin boat. These were actually better built than the Binliner motorboats (well, sailboats don't require the structure that motorboats do... maybe about the  same but less load to take)

The trailer looks to be in good shape too. The only problem is that it's sure to need new sails, I dunno what other class is close to this size rig to recommend used ones; a custom new set is gonna be in $1k ~ $1500 range. Originally equipped with the cheapest grade of line and fittings too,  so personally (I'm spoiled and like nice things) I'd upgrade a lot that stuff which is sure to be old & rattley on top of starting life cheap.

In short, if you don't hate the looks, can get it cheap enough to be worth what you're going to have to put into it to get into the shape that will make you happy with it.... GO FOR IT. I have never sailed these things myself but seen them around a fair bit, they're actually a bit better in some respects than the Oday Daysailer.

FB- Doug

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WCB

WCB 489

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2 hours ago, Admiral Hornblower said:

Can anybody guess the sail number of that one? And its make? I can't tell if its a all fiberglass boat or a composite...

It's been posted before, not long ago, and somebody knew where it was from.

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Alan Crawford

Alan Crawford 398

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15 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

 

i want it but I don’t want to drive 3000 miles this week 

 

 

 

That's a nice looking Highlander. You know you want it, Gov, to go with your wooden Thistle!

send the seller a 25% deposit and do the drive next week!

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WCB

WCB 489

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51 minutes ago, Alan Crawford said:

That's a nice looking Highlander. You know you want it, Gov, to go with your wooden Thistle!

send the seller a 25% deposit and do the drive next week!

I would think that getting out of Texas right now would be a good thing

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Gouvernail

Gouvernail 3,283

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3 hours ago, Alan Crawford said:

That's a nice looking Highlander. You know you want it, Gov, to go with your wooden Thistle!

send the seller a 25% deposit and do the drive next week!

It is all about the  timing

and related cash flow. We are currently resurrecting a J-22 , building a new wood shop , and trying to create some tooling for a fantasy project. 
   The Highlander would be that gorgeous head turner I would occasionally tie down to the ramp and just soend an afternoon riding around showing off.

ideally I wouid strip off the paint  and sail it in its varnished wooden glory 

I want to eventually do a lot of “That old man on his ancient showpiece” sailing. 

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BobBill

BobBill 122

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8 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

It is all about the  timing

and related cash flow. We are currently resurrecting a J-22 , building a new wood shop , and trying to create some tooling for a fantasy project. 
   The Highlander would be that gorgeous head turner I would occasionally tie down to the ramp and just soend an afternoon riding around showing off.

ideally I wouid strip off the paint  and sail it in its varnished wooden glory 

I want to eventually do a lot of “That old man on his ancient showpiece” sailing.

Dude, I dig, To each his or her own...but got to be better head turners out there than this Douiglass "Kilt Dropper!" Be far more fun with a "Kilt Lifter."

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mookiesurfs

mookiesurfs 124

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Posted

Gov, here's a Bandit. I'm looking for something to push on and off the beach at the lake. There's this Bandit, a Vagabond 14, and an American 14-6 to choose from. Anyone have suggestions on the three, assuming similar condition and price? Sorry, I couldn't get the ad itself to load. Boats are in the Orlando area.

Screenshot_20200809-202120_Chrome.jpg

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Steam Flyer

Steam Flyer 6,270

Posted
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7 hours ago, posaune said:
11 hours ago, Old Yeller said:

https://jacksonville.craigslist.org/boa/d/callahan-mx-ray-sailboat/7152217362.html

I wanted an MX Ray SO BADLY when they came out. It's a good thing this is so far away, or I'd be way way too tempted. 

I sailed a borrowed one at a big regatta, years back. It's a cool little boat but it's little. I was too heavy for it. They're kind of like a sinker windsurfer. And they're not really all that fast, but the rig works pretty well.

Some cool boats this week, don't think I've ever seen a Merlin-Rocket for sale in the US.

FB- Doug

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Dex Sawash

Dex Sawash 600

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, ortegakid said:

Anyone going near Raleigh, NC, and could bring an FD to Texas? And yes have a ad on u-ship, thx!

The FD I have in Durham is headed to Alabama soon, if you can work out a stack somehow. The trailer mine is on would not be a bottom.

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ortegakid

ortegakid 135

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3 minutes ago, Dex Sawash said:

The FD I have in Durham is headed to Alabama soon, if you can work out a stack somehow. The trailer mine is on would not be a bottom.

Thx Dex, but mine is on a great trailer with two masts, etc. Will be going to get if can't arrange somethin. Have till sept to pick up.

 

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Dex Sawash

Dex Sawash 600

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1 minute ago, ortegakid said:

Thx Dex, but mine is on a great trailer with two masts, etc. Will be going to get if can't arrange somethin. Have till sept to pick up.

 

Is it the Plastrend from the same guy who had the cold molded one?

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bplipschitz

bplipschitz 298

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, posaune said:

Need a red/orange one? Do Fb Marketplace listings count here? Idk what's up with that transom, but it's $175! You can hardly afford NOT to buy it!

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/575091669873696/

106100387_10217041978267130_4261074052254108590_o.jpg

Where is that located?  I'm guessing somewhere in NY?  Too bad -- I'd buy it at that price if it were closer.

EDIT: MI, I see.  What appears to be up with that transom is (I'm guessing) it got the infamous   Banshee transom rot, and either we're seeing just the single inside skin of what's left, or it's a bad repair.  Still, for $175, I'd take it.  Michigan, Michigan. . .

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posaune

posaune 10

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, bplipschitz said:

Where is that located?  I'm guessing somewhere in NY?  Too bad -- I'd buy it at that price if it were closer.

EDIT: MI, I see.  What appears to be up with that transom is (I'm guessing) it got the infamous   Banshee transom rot, and either we're seeing just the single inside skin of what's left, or it's a bad repair.  Still, for $175, I'd take it.  Michigan, Michigan. . .

Oh c'mon, MI can't be THAT far from wherever you are. Jeez, that's like the price of a decent swivel base and cleat. :lol:

I don't know anything about Banshees, but the people who sold me my Force 5 had a couple and I thought they were kinda cool.

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Steam Flyer

Steam Flyer 6,270

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1 hour ago, posaune said:

Oh c'mon, MI can't be THAT far from wherever you are. Jeez, that's like the price of a decent swivel base and cleat. :lol:

I don't know anything about Banshees, but the people who sold me my Force 5 had a couple and I thought they were kinda cool.

I'd take  Banshee over a Force 5, too

FB- Doug

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BobBill

BobBill 122

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Posted

Class rig with transom needing some attention and sun faded...priced right, no trlr. but easily altered. Would have to see...better that a Force 5 is very relative and subjective. Need to review sail and spars also...worth a Mich trip to Saginaw...???

Bay used to home of 110 and BridgeDeck publication but the class unclassed itself. 

Thanks Dex...I'd go, 9closer than the other Banshee and if I did not already have an outrigger to mess with...still.

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Schnappi

Schnappi 88

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$50 JY15

JY15 sailing dinghy in good working order. Sail number 1968. No dolly or trailer included in sale. Selling for $50 or nearest offer as moving out of state and need to off-load. All sails in good working condition. No defects. Mast and rigging in good condition. Hull has minor cosmetic defects but full working order. Hiking straps recently re-sewn. Sailed through this summer. Please contact Charles on show contact info
for photos or to discuss. Located on Shelter Island. Purchaser will need to provide own road trailer for pick up

https://longisland.craigslist.org/boa/d/shelter-island-heights-jy15-sailing/7174987498.html

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Coquina012

Coquina012 56

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Add says it is a 20 footer.  Of course, I could write the person who posted the ad with so very much detail and information, but the last thing I need on planet earth is another damn boat.  My wooden FD is showing some compromise over the fact that a former owner retrofitted a set of damn plastic hatches in the top decks and SAWED THROUGH THE CROSS BEAMS, which cause immediate fracture and disengagement on both centerboard and planking sides where the beams attach under the decking.  So now I have a real challenge.  Back to the point, the shear doesn't look like an FD, but what other 20 footer would have that setup?  Condition looks good.  Enough freeboard for a Highlander?  I looked up Vikingmar...no hits. 

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Coquina012

Coquina012 56

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This is a hoot.  I sold this boat last winter for $150 just to get it out of my yard.  I had done some real structural repair on this thing--it was at the "needs cosmetics" stage.   it was a delight to sail, but no trapeze.  Well, I admire their capitalist vision, and hope they make money on it.  https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/boa/d/rohnert-park-flying-dutchman-20-two/7175006184.html  HAHAHA!

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Steam Flyer

Steam Flyer 6,270

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3 minutes ago, Coquina012 said:

Add says it is a 20 footer.  Of course, I could write the person who posted the ad with so very much detail and information, but the last thing I need on planet earth is another damn boat.  My wooden FD is showing some compromise over the fact that a former owner retrofitted a set of damn plastic hatches in the top decks and SAWED THROUGH THE CROSS BEAMS, which cause immediate fracture and disengagement on both centerboard and planking sides where the beams attach under the decking.  So now I have a real challenge.  Back to the point, the shear doesn't look like an FD, but what other 20 footer would have that setup?  Condition looks good.  Enough freeboard for a Highlander?  I looked up Vikingmar...no hits. 

No idea what it is. Not a Highlander, definitely not an FD nor a Volante (a Vanguard daysailer based on FD mold).

Does not look to be 20 feet, although the scale is always a question. Bow looks slightly FD-ish, transom nothing at all like it. Tank sides... raised cockpit sole?

Trailer not galvanized but fairly decent looking, at that price, I'd definitely go take a look if it were near me. Not that I need more boats, or anything....

Interesting mystery boat, anybody with some clues please chime in!

FB- Doug

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posaune

posaune 10

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Posted
8 hours ago, BobBill said:

Chrysler made rig, forgot. There were two, I think.

Buccaneer? That was a thought of mine, but those seem to have rear decks (and are 18ft). Mutineer is smaller still.

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Gouvernail

Gouvernail 3,283

Posted
Posted

I just got myself a Banshee to play with. 
it hasn’t sailed in the last 20 years except one time Last week by the 77 year old who left it here .

my current vision is:

*Sail it a few times to get to know the Banshee 
*Tell The local juniors they may use it any time they want to come get the parts for the day. 
 

if I donate it, the thing will be junked in a year but they have always been careful with my stuff.

whenever I change the image size to post here it flips the photo sideways.. 

sorry 

the wood parts are perfect 

FBF332E4-1266-46F3-8DAD-2ECD0EE4EE5F.jpeg

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Bill5

Bill5 2,027

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No, I think it is appropriate you have 3 single-handers, Gouv. Give you something to do. And didn’t the Banshee tie with the Laser in the Teacup Trials? (I can hear Tillerman typing)

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BobBill

BobBill 122

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Posted

I agree and am green with envy...

Kids will love it. Some points to view, transom, step and blocks...

I was never a fan of the glasswork, but that is the boat. And, the floor of the cockipit might be that stippled crap...the dagger and rudder are or should be mahog and need a sand papering and coat of something...just do not let kids be careless with them...hard to replace.

You will love it, dog! 

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bplipschitz

bplipschitz 298

Posted
Posted
On 8/15/2020 at 9:14 PM, Gouvernail said:

I just got myself a Banshee to play with. 
it hasn’t sailed in the last 20 years except one time Last week by the 77 year old who left it here .

my current vision is:

*Sail it a few times to get to know the Banshee 
*Tell The local juniors they may use it any time they want to come get the parts for the day. 
 

if I donate it, the thing will be junked in a year but they have always been careful with my stuff.

whenever I change the image size to post here it flips the photo sideways.. 

sorry 

the wood parts are perfect 

FBF332E4-1266-46F3-8DAD-2ECD0EE4EE5F.jpeg

Good on you, Gouv.  The Banshee is a helluva fun boat to sail!  Just make sure that you a good rudder keeper.  As long as the transom isn't rotted, and the mast step is solid, you should be good to go.

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bplipschitz

bplipschitz 298

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On 8/16/2020 at 3:27 AM, BobBill said:

the dagger and rudder are or should be mahog

Later boats (like my '82) have fiberglass foils.  The construction of my rudder was not "of the highest quality" and had great voids in the expoxy/microballon filling.  I made my own to replace it.

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WCB

WCB 489

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3 hours ago, Admiral Hornblower said:

man! I have would jumped on it by now except it's too far away

Not anymore...you waited long enough and it dropped $600 which is your gas money.

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BobBill

BobBill 122

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Posted
18 hours ago, bplipschitz said:

Later boats (like my '82) have fiberglass foils.  The construction of my rudder was not "of the highest quality" and had great voids in the expoxy/microballon filling.  I made my own to replace it.

Blip...

Did you craft new blade out of wood and coat, or use a molded glass...? Just curious...

(I think the Banshee class suffered the same fate as too many other decent rigs...corporate raiding and selling...of that era. Sad, too, as the raiders were MBAs looking for bucks and their greed only gave Performance a boasted Laser population and more reason to screw customers...am certain Kirby would have been greedy enough to not care, IMO...

So, how was new governail crafted?

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Alan Crawford

Alan Crawford 398

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, BobBill said:

(I think the Banshee class suffered the same fate as too many other decent rigs...corporate raiding and selling...of that era. Sad, too, as the raiders were MBAs looking for bucks and their greed only gave Performance a boasted Laser population and more reason to screw customers...am certain Kirby would have been greedy enough to not care, IMO...

Did you see this from the Banshee thread? Pretty cool.

https://www.mooresailboats.com/banshee

 

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WCB

WCB 489

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On 8/18/2020 at 12:55 PM, WCB said:

How cheap does this Fireball have to go before somebody gets it.  $275 in Wisconsin.

Is this cheap enough for you?

Screen_Shot_2020-08-18_at_12_55.19_PM.png

There's a bid on it....I won't post it for the fourth time now.  Unless the bidder flakes that is.

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bplipschitz

bplipschitz 298

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On 8/19/2020 at 5:35 AM, BobBill said:

Did you craft new blade out of wood and coat, or use a molded glass...? Just curious...

My original rudder, along with the voids, had cracked in one spot and was full of water. 

For the rudder I built, I had a 'rudder' made from surfboard foam (1/8" smaller in all dimensions) to the drawings of the class foils.  It was done by a firm called flyingfoam.com (now gone out of business), they did a superb job and only charged about $90.  I then covered that with unidirectional CF, biaxial CF and fiberglass on the outside.  Didn't vacuum bag it, but got a pretty good shape out of it.  I should have spent the money and vacuumed it, but it turned out fine.

I crafted a new rudder head from solid aluminum and new pintles, and it's solid as a rock.  If flyingfoam were still in business, I'd do my centerboard, too, although it appears to be better constructed than the rudder.

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BobBill

BobBill 122

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Posted

Bplip...,

Thanks. I did reveiw the Banshee site. Very informative...One pic seems to show a boat with no tansom...did not know that was legal, aside from twisting hull thing. I would need net at least...to keep crap from being flotsam...cans.

Also, the long centerboards of wood were sturdy suckers and if clear glassed, pretty, and not prone to twisting or bending on a close reach or beating, in a breeze. 

Sometime back I read the hulls were FJ's sans 5 inches of gunnel height. Well, if so, ingenious idea as rigs are the max in a blow. Far easier to sail, and faster. than a Laser or the stiff Force 5s, but only my opinion, it is all relative...my current rig is fun and needs some tweaks and keeps me from picking up a Banshee. Hope Gouv plants some honest observations or comparisons.  

I recall one boat I saw that the owner had put a mid-boom traveler across rig, but never learned if effective, was back when middys were the rage. Probably more trouble than it was worth and illegal.

Thanks, very enlightening and fun.

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bplipschitz

bplipschitz 298

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2 hours ago, BobBill said:

recall one boat I saw that the owner had put a mid-boom traveler across rig, but never learned if effective, was back when middys were the rage. Probably more trouble than it was worth and illegal.

Traveler was a factory option.  I put one on mine, but use it more like a Finn than anything else.

As it is, I contacted mooresailboats.com, and they haven't had any orders yet, but "guess" at a price of $10k <cough>,

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bplipschitz

bplipschitz 298

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, BobBill said:

.One pic seems to show a boat with no tansom

Sorry for the multiple replies, but I saw that, too and I think it's just a weird picture -- if you look closely the transom is there.  Now, if they started building Gryphons. . .

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Steam Flyer

Steam Flyer 6,270

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Posted
34 minutes ago, bplipschitz said:
3 hours ago, BobBill said:

recall one boat I saw that the owner had put a mid-boom traveler across rig, but never learned if effective, was back when middys were the rage. Probably more trouble than it was worth and illegal.

Traveler was a factory option.  I put one on mine, but use it more like a Finn than anything else.

As it is, I contacted mooresailboats.com, and they haven't had any orders yet, but "guess" at a price of $10k <cough>,

$10k is not bad for a brand new boat. That's what shit costs nowadays, and building a boat is highly skilled labor.

A couple of problems with the traveler, in smaller boats the weight is disproportionate to the advantage, it's one more line for the skipper to fuck with, it puts a hard stress point at the boom (compared to running the sheet from the end, or end+mid), and since you're going to have a vang anyway, vang-sheeting is simpler/faster.

IMHO the only plus of a traveler is that you can play the traveler upwind and avoid adjusting the vang when it's most difficult. But I really hate barking my shins on a square metal bar.

FB- Doug

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BobBill

BobBill 122

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Posted

Doug, I sort of agree. Manning or watching another line is a PIA, especially when the benefits are slim...cuts into the fun-factor, to me.

My preference is for no midboom travels (stern or transom only, if that) and no spinnakers...wing it. Keep it as simple as can be...and one reason is liked the MO (Malibu Outriggers), Snipes, C and M boats, Banshees, Lehmans, Interclubs,110s (yes I know they fly spinnakers) and some few others. Stingpullers are not my cuppa. And never really cottened to I-canoes etc and some swifties like the 505s, Solings and Fifteens, etc. I raced a I14 once and speed is fine, but so relative, me mellowed and prefer to swill some and smell the roses more.  Maybe we have too much time to figit and add go-fasts?

But, that is mellow me!  

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bplipschitz

bplipschitz 298

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Posted
1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

it puts a hard stress point at the boom (compared to running the sheet from the end, or end+mid

Banshee is mid-sheeted anyway, whether traveler or no.  I think mine added a pound?  Maybe?  I think it helps with sail shape at (granted a minimal) range of boom angles.  It also helps remind me not to sheet in too hard, and to sail more to the boat's strengths.

Yeah, I know -- new boats just cost that much.  That's why I'm fitting a new bailer and cleaning up the bottom on my Banshee this weekend.  ;)

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bplipschitz

bplipschitz 298

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Posted
2 hours ago, BobBill said:

Gryphon...have to look that sucker up...

Essentially, a carbon fiber Banshee.  ~15 were made.  One came up for sale about 10-12 years ago, and it was snatched up quickly.  Whereas the Banshee weighs in at 120lbs, I think the Gryphon is 75-85.

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BobBill

BobBill 122

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Posted
1 hour ago, bplipschitz said:

Essentially, a carbon fiber Banshee.  ~15 were made.  One came up for sale about 10-12 years ago, and it was snatched up quickly.  Whereas the Banshee weighs in at 120lbs, I think the Gryphon is 75-85.

Will ive it another go...the boats I dredged up were the big "blue" version...carbon, pretty rare, interesting...love to sail one with large sail...in low pressure, of course. Thanks, will find some pics.

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bplipschitz

bplipschitz 298

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, BobBill said:
2 hours ago, bplipschitz said:

Essentially, a carbon fiber Banshee.  ~15 were made.  One came up for sale about 10-12 years ago, and it was snatched up quickly.  Whereas the Banshee weighs in at 120lbs, I think the Gryphon is 75-85.

Will ive it another go...the boats I dredged up were the big "blue" version...carbon, pretty rare, interesting...love to sail one with large sail...in low pressure, of course. Thanks, will find some pics.

I misspelled it -- the spelling from googling it is "griffon".

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