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2 hours ago, craigiri said:

For those who just don't have the Budget for the new Rocket - this....may....just be close in terms of bring a semi-board boat with some interior space.

I don't know the history, but it appears Phantom(s) of a sort (12 and 14) were made by J-Point Marine for a while - and some of the threads from a few years back show them putting their molds up for sale....and so, the classics move on. Not cheap - but if this boat is in great shape and they took a few less for it, someone may have a keeper.

Whether or not these are true Board Boats...or closer to another design - well, that's for you boat builders here. 

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Pretty sure that is same design as the Howmar 12 which gives it a little family heritage shared with the Rocket. The H12 design came from the S&S office.

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Vanguard was the boat building side of Harken.  After having all the skin burned off their fingers by 470 International being unwilling to enforce the class rules prior to the 1984 Olympics. A long st

Well, for better of worse, I will be the new owner of that LadySlipper (whitehall type) craigslist find.  Thanks for whoever posted it (or no thanks if it falls apart and sinks!).....no, I think

That one's too good to not immortalize  here with a screen shot of the listing before it's gone! I would only add in the description that besides the YouTube videos, there is plenty of expert commenta

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4 hours ago, Dex Sawash said:

 

Pretty sure that is same design as the Howmar 12 which gives it a little family heritage shared with the Rocket. The H12 design came from the S&S office.

The online convos on it note that the place had the molds for sale soon after - Rocket says they saw the molds were for sale and bought them! Of course there could have been more than one set and also the 12 and 14. 

Maybe that type of boat design is just so good? There are some things which are right for their function and that is that. By using the modern methods and cutting the weight down, the Rocket adds details which make it worthwhile for lots of stuff (maybe including easy car-topping). 

I never sailed board boats - closest was the snark as a kid. 

 

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15 hours ago, craigiri said:

 

I never sailed board boats - closest was the snark as a kid. 

 

Well, I would argue that you DID sail the most classic board boat of all! Just like I did as a kid!!

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35 minutes ago, Alan Crawford said:

Well, I would argue that you DID sail the most classic board boat of all! Just like I did as a kid!!

You sit in it, tho - and it doesn't plane (or at least I never got that far). 

I may have sailed others at camp - if any of you ever have kids you want to send to Camp, check out Echo Hill in MD (Quaker camp on the Bay). 8 years old and sailing, shooting range, ceramics and much more. Look at their web site pics! 

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Not cheap - but rare and a good boat for someone who wants to row, motor and sail. - the 12 foot model is fairly rare and this boat (or the Bauer also would be 7500+ new (if they were available).

If no trailer included I would want it for less - $2500 or so, but if 100% solid it's worth that price. 

https://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/boa/d/vero-beach-real-trinka-12-sailing-dinghy/7341300517.html

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15 hours ago, craigiri said:

Not cheap - but rare and a good boat for someone who wants to row, motor and sail. - the 12 foot model is fairly rare and this boat (or the Bauer also would be 7500+ new (if they were available).

If no trailer included I would want it for less - $2500 or so, but if 100% solid it's worth that price. 

https://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/boa/d/vero-beach-real-trinka-12-sailing-dinghy/7341300517.html

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It it still a seller's market? I see signs of it slowing down around here.

That is a great little boat, a good friend of mine had one as his cruising dinghy. Not as much fun to sail as Laser or a 420 but far more practical as a dinghy.

As an all-around little boat, it's not 5X as nice as an AMF Puffer though, especially if you spend another 1/5 of the difference on custom sails. The main benefit to the Trinka is that it's slightly better put together and has a raised sole so it doesn't form a big puddle around your ankles.

I like the wording of the ad implying that one must be careful of possibly spending a fortune on a counterfeit Trinka

FB- Doug

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3 hours ago, bourdidn said:

I am seriously looking into it but don’t seem to have much luck on Uship. Anybody driving from KS to Upstate NY or ON in the near future by any chance?

Time for a road trip...  only a 16 hour drive each way..  but you'll need a trailer.

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On 6/23/2021 at 6:23 PM, limerunner said:

just a couple more price cuts from a deal... 

Mystery boat

It is a Bandit 15. I just sent a note. I want to clean it up, make molds, and make a few my own way. 

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On 6/23/2021 at 7:32 PM, Ventucky Red said:

Sold yesterday . I am a tad unhappy because I thought I had made it clear I wouid send money as soon as we coujd decide how to send it and my Buddy in Wichita would pick it  up and bring it to texas. 
oh well. 

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On 6/26/2021 at 11:57 PM, Gouvernail said:

Sold yesterday . I am a tad unhappy because I thought I had made it clear I wouid send money as soon as we coujd decide how to send it and my Buddy in Wichita would pick it  up and bring it to texas. 
oh well. 

Damn it, I had just found a carrier to bring it to Ontario... Back to looking for a Weta.

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Snark Sunflower looks to be in very good condition - kept inside

https://nwct.craigslist.org/boa/d/stratford-sail-boat-snark-sunflower/7342659839.html

I couldn't help myself. Yes, I am picking it up later today.

Here is my "logic" - I want to buy a good Dinghy sometime soon - and was looking to test drive a few at various places that rent them (not nearby, so require hotel stay or long drive).

And so, I figured I'd buy this and fiddle with it and at least that would give me an idea if I liked the Lanteen Rig type. If I do, then the Rocket is big in the mix b/c I want lightweight. 

Even an Aero isn't this light! 50-59 pounds I hear. Look at the Manufacturers plate - it sure looks like it hasn't been  kept outdoors much!

I know the Wife is gonna have a ball ribbing me when she finds out (not the money, just the silliness of not resisting). 

 

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Freedom has been refitted with a big soft rig, so 19K gets you something that is complete and usable, at least as far as I can tell.

Probably a really sweet ride.

SHC

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That isn't a Finn rudder.

Boat also is missing the board cap and traveler and there is no evidence of the rigging that controils the sails.

Given what I know about Finns built in 1984, this certainly isn't one of them.

SHC

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1 hour ago, craigiri said:

Snark Sunflower looks to be in very good condition - kept inside

https://nwct.craigslist.org/boa/d/stratford-sail-boat-snark-sunflower/7342659839.html

I couldn't help myself. Yes, I am picking it up later today.

Here is my "logic" - I want to buy a good Dinghy sometime soon - and was looking to test drive a few at various places that rent them (not nearby, so require hotel stay or long drive).

And so, I figured I'd buy this and fiddle with it and at least that would give me an idea if I liked the Lanteen Rig type. If I do, then the Rocket is big in the mix b/c I want lightweight. 

Even an Aero isn't this light! 50-59 pounds I hear. Look at the Manufacturers plate - it sure looks like it hasn't been  kept outdoors much!

I know the Wife is gonna have a ball ribbing me when she finds out (not the money, just the silliness of not resisting). 

 

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I hope you didn't pay the $500 ...

These are not horrible but I don't think the wording "good dinghy" is appropriate. 

$50 might be more appropriate for the silliness of not resisting.

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31 minutes ago, Steve Clark said:

That isn't a Finn rudder.

Boat also is missing the board cap and traveler and there is no evidence of the rigging that controils the sails.

Given what I know about Finns built in 1984, this certainly isn't one of them.

SHC

It looks better in the picture with the top cover :D

 

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1 hour ago, AnotherSailor said:

I hope you didn't pay the $500 ...

These are not horrible but I don't think the wording "good dinghy" is appropriate. 

$50 might be more appropriate for the silliness of not resisting.

 

Didn't pay $500, but the ones you see for $200 are not the Sunflower (they are cheaper models) - they are not ABS covered and all dented and smashed up. On the other hand, you see some for $1200 in perfect shape that will never sell.

The same boat is still made - $1400 new and they actually have sold quite well (************ Boat Company). 

I'll post the sailing pics when we see what it does - then we can judge. I have no concern about a couple hundred bucks - I am certain that if I decide to sell it in the fall someone will give be $250-350 for it. 

We'll see. I'm having sun anyway. I could have bought some of the sunfish or sail fish around instead but the 50 lbs is the part that makes it worthwhile for me right now. If I do end up with a Board Boat it would likely be a Rocket or something like that other one I posted with a full interior carved out (pointer). I don't want a single seat sit-on boat for now. I think Fulcrum did their research when they decided a "cockpit" was a selling point for a Board Type Boat. 

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41 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

A beauty, but I see a lot of black in that wood.

Nice sail number... looks like a nice trailer until you you dunk it in the water... aluminum mast is a plus...

FB- Doug

I'm close enough to consider this boat. What do you mean about the black hull (the bit right at the bottom of the bow?) and the trailer?

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38 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

A beauty, but I see a lot of black in that wood.

 

Yes, the section at the bow looks pretty nasty but given the age and overall ok condition (at least in the pictures), that one seems a worthy candidate to bring back to life! Cleveland is a long way from Montana or...

It's cool that there's a lot of interest in bringing life back to these old wooden dinghies. There's a FB page devoted to wooden Finns that has almost 1000 members. A wooden Finn regatta is planned next June in Uppsala, Sweden, birthplace of the Finn.

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Just now, williaty said:

I'm close enough to consider this boat. What do you mean about the black hull (the bit right at the bottom of the bow?) and the trailer?

Black wood on a hot molded (or cold molded) wooden hull = dry rot. Judging from the amount of black in the one picture of the bow, that's a pretty good job to repair but definitely doable. You must peel back the varies plies of veneer until all of the rot / black is gone and then re-veneer.

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I'm watching some youtube videos of people sailing these. I think I ought to give it a pass. I don't think my wife and I are athletic enough to jump in a boat that fast paced/busy after a 20 year break from sailing. It doesn't look like there'd be a great way to depower it and get the tempo down while we burn off the cobwebs. It was just tempting because it's pretty and it's listed for less than a Sunfish goes for around here.

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2 hours ago, williaty said:

I'm watching some youtube videos of people sailing these. I think I ought to give it a pass. I don't think my wife and I are athletic enough to jump in a boat that fast paced/busy after a 20 year break from sailing. It doesn't look like there'd be a great way to depower it and get the tempo down while we burn off the cobwebs. It was just tempting because it's pretty and it's listed for less than a Sunfish goes for around here.

There are some FD sailers here that can give their opinion. You can also find some old glass FD's for similar price as that woodie but closer to ready to sail. @ortegakid

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1 hour ago, wannabefd said:

Find a smaller jib and furl when overpowered.

 

Yep, modern furler works wonders... I'd even go so far as to get a square top main and put a jiffy reef on it, but I like excitement.

IMHO a Flying Dutchman is a great boat and is not really for only the super-athletic and finely honed skills... for one thing, it will help tune up those sailing skills and provide a lot of fun. I'd like one myself but that woodie is bit above my skill set to bring back. I can do conventional planking (which is too heavy for an FD anyway) but am really more of a fiberglass guy

FB- Doug

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5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

IMHO a Flying Dutchman is a great boat and is not really for only the super-athletic and finely honed skills... 

FB- Doug

It is true, although when it was an Olympic boat is was said to be sailed by big, young, athletic men. Now some of those guys are 60-80 and still sailing them.  The nice thing is they have good primary stability so at least it is possible to get into it without capsizing at the dock, even if you aren't that quick on your feet anymore. 

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31 minutes ago, rcbrds said:

It is true, although when it was an Olympic boat is was said to be sailed by big, young, athletic men. Now some of those guys are 60-80 and still sailing them.  The nice thing is they have good primary stability so at least it is possible to get into it without capsizing at the dock, even if you aren't that quick on your feet anymore. 

Yes, best mannered dinghy and still greatest lines on the water!

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On 7/2/2021 at 8:49 AM, Steam Flyer said:

A beauty, but I see a lot of black in that wood.

Nice sail number... looks like a nice trailer until you you dunk it in the water... aluminum mast is a plus...

FB- Doug

The price the price is one thousand dollars.

Don’t be picky.

SHC

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1 hour ago, Steve Clark said:
On 7/2/2021 at 8:49 AM, Steam Flyer said:

A beauty, but I see a lot of black in that wood.

Nice sail number... looks like a nice trailer until you you dunk it in the water... aluminum mast is a plus...

 

The price the price is one thousand dollars.

Don’t be picky.

SHC

Good point. It's a beauty. Period.

FB- Doug

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Thirty years ago we bought a non competitive but solid Dutchman  and turned it into a simply rigged boat. 
 

it was a great stable ride and hauled ass in a blow. 
 

it seemed to me then and still does that there would be a market for a Dutchman hull rigged with a Laser mentality. 
 

the Chrysler Buccaneer and MFG Whip could have been that boat but the companies built them with shit fir brains rigging and failed to use all the extra weight in their laminates to build forever stiff and strong craft. 
 

I think those who would buy my fantasy boat have all migrated to Keelboats 

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11 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

Thirty years ago we bought a non competitive but solid Dutchman  and turned it into a simply rigged boat. 
 

it was a great stable ride and hauled ass in a blow. 
 

it seemed to me then and still does that there would be a market for a Dutchman hull rigged with a Laser mentality. 
 

the Chrysler Buccaneer and MFG Whip could have been that boat but the companies built them with shit fir brains rigging and failed to use all the extra weight in their laminates to build forever stiff and strong craft. 
 

I think those who would buy my fantasy boat have all migrated to Keelboats 

Not all of us Gouv!

F625D3E5-1723-4E16-8CEA-A87D517B7A56.jpeg

87E7F21D-028C-447D-8F34-A31728B6C169.jpeg

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23 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

Thirty years ago we bought a non competitive but solid Dutchman  and turned it into a simply rigged boat. 
 

it was a great stable ride and hauled ass in a blow. 
 

it seemed to me then and still does that there would be a market for a Dutchman hull rigged with a Laser mentality. 
 

the Chrysler Buccaneer and MFG Whip could have been that boat but the companies built them with shit fir brains rigging and failed to use all the extra weight in their laminates to build forever stiff and strong craft. 
 

I think those who would buy my fantasy boat have all migrated to Keelboats 

There's a gang of younger sailors who are jaded with 4-twinkies and would like a boat that is not overwhelmingly technical, yet powerful and fun to sail.

Don't forget the Vanguard Volant, which has been described here as an FD minus the last foot of stern.

I had the experience of bringing two 5O5s into a high school sailing program, consulting with a few 5-oh! sailors (including here, and including the donors) on simplifying the rigging which was a challenge. The hulls were solid though, worth the effort to rebuild. The kids who got the approval to sail them, LOVED them although the boats tended to humiliate them by capsizing while gybing, flying out from under them in a chop, spinning 3 times attempting to tack, etc etc. The ability to blow past the FJs at will, even on the lee side, was part of the attraction

FB- Doug

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  • 2 weeks later...

But wait, that's not all.. two Johnson 18's for $500....  Looking at the map, it appears they are at the old Catalina facility in Woodland Hill, CA.  I remember the Performance Catamaran (NACRA & Prindle) building these things when Frank Butler bought them

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/boa/d/woodland-hills-johnson-18-boats/7351050336.html

 

00505_ZeokohTw89z_0CI0lM_600x450.jpg

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7 hours ago, Ventucky Red said:

But wait, that's not all.. two Johnson 18's for $500....  Looking at the map, it appears they are at the old Catalina facility in Woodland Hill, CA.  I remember the Performance Catamaran (NACRA & Prindle) building these things when Frank Butler bought them

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/boa/d/woodland-hills-johnson-18-boats/7351050336.html

 

00505_ZeokohTw89z_0CI0lM_600x450.jpg

That would be REALLY tempting if closer. The Johnson 18 is a great boat. Not so good in light air, but the most comfortable and ergonomic hiking boat short of the VX-1 and they can be astonishingly quick. Very little stowage though, not much potential for a daysailer

FB- Doug

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8 hours ago, Ventucky Red said:

But wait, that's not all.. two Johnson 18's for $500....  Looking at the map, it appears they are at the old Catalina facility in Woodland Hill, CA.  I remember the Performance Catamaran (NACRA & Prindle) building these things when Frank Butler bought them

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/boa/d/woodland-hills-johnson-18-boats/7351050336.html

 

00505_ZeokohTw89z_0CI0lM_600x450.jpg

I've got to start looking for one of these for the lake house in Minnesota.  Hang it off a mooring - easy peasy.

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17 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

That would be REALLY tempting if closer. The Johnson 18 is a great boat. Not so good in light air, but the most comfortable and ergonomic hiking boat short of the VX-1 and they can be astonishingly quick. Very little stowage though, not much potential for a daysailer

FB- Doug

I let my OCD get the best of me and reached out to them... They are gone.  Pretty sure you could rig up some sort of a dry bag for day saling

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1 minute ago, Raz'r said:

I've got to start looking for one of these for the lake house in Minnesota.  Hang it off a mooring - easy peasy.

Performance was making these for Catalina.  Never sailed one, but saw one all set up sans the sails at the factory - pretty sweet looking boat.

 

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44 minutes ago, Ventucky Red said:
51 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

I've got to start looking for one of these for the lake house in Minnesota.  Hang it off a mooring - easy peasy.

Performance was making these for Catalina.  Never sailed one, but saw one all set up sans the sails at the factory - pretty sweet looking boat.

Yes they are quite good-looking boats.

I sailed/raced one with my wife for about 5 years. It was a huge step up from our Lightning in all ways except class size.

A couple of things I didn't like, the lack of a rubrail meant that no matter how careful you are (I treated ours like a Faberge egg.... that weighs 450 lbs) the topsides acquire unaesthetic scrapes and scars. It doesn't like a chop. It also has very poor capsize behavior, slaps itself down and goes turtle almost instantly.

But most ways, they are thoroughbreds. It takes a little getting used to the long skinny foils, but when "hooked up" they are quite fast in any breeze strong enough to put your butt up on the windward gun'l, and they're very comfy from lounging down in the cockpit to full-press hiking. The Lightnings beat us in light air but we lapped them in 10+. They de-power smoothly (if you got the shroud tension right). They will plane close-hauled but it takes careful work with the traveler and vigorous hiking.... well, not so vigorous that my wife & I couldn't do it. They will plane when heeled up to about 15 degrees. They steer beautifully and precisely.

I was really hoping the class would catch on, but nope.

FB- Doug

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43 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

I was really hoping the class would catch on, but nope.

FB- Doug

Like sooooo many other boats..  Force 5 comes to mind..  I know in the northeast - mid Atlantic they were doing well.  But that was about it.. 

A 16 year old me

 

 

 

f517.jpg

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Here's somebody who wants to get a junk trailer out of their yard, and as a come-on they are offering a $300 four-twinkie

https://bloomington.craigslist.org/boa/d/linton-vanguard-420-sailboat-trailer/7341802721.html

The boat does not look like a prize but if you have any youth sailors anywhere nearby, they are worth at least some slight amount of fixin' up

FB- Doug

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On 7/16/2021 at 6:40 PM, Steam Flyer said:

Yes they are quite good-looking boats.

I sailed/raced one with my wife for about 5 years. It was a huge step up from our Lightning in all ways except class size.

A couple of things I didn't like, the lack of a rubrail meant that no matter how careful you are (I treated ours like a Faberge egg.... that weighs 450 lbs) the topsides acquire unaesthetic scrapes and scars. It doesn't like a chop. It also has very poor capsize behavior, slaps itself down and goes turtle almost instantly.

But most ways, they are thoroughbreds. It takes a little getting used to the long skinny foils, but when "hooked up" they are quite fast in any breeze strong enough to put your butt up on the windward gun'l, and they're very comfy from lounging down in the cockpit to full-press hiking. The Lightnings beat us in light air but we lapped them in 10+. They de-power smoothly (if you got the shroud tension right). They will plane close-hauled but it takes careful work with the traveler and vigorous hiking.... well, not so vigorous that my wife & I couldn't do it. They will plane when heeled up to about 15 degrees. They steer beautifully and precisely.

I was really hoping the class would catch on, but nope.

FB- Doug

I had one also, until wifey and I capsized and had to be towed back up by a pontoon boat, not again, FD much more fun and lighter.

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On 7/16/2021 at 8:26 PM, Ventucky Red said:

Like sooooo many other boats..  Force 5 comes to mind..  I know in the northeast - mid Atlantic they were doing well.  But that was about it.. 

A 16 year old me

 

 

 

f517.jpg

Force 5s are back in production. Weeks in Patchogue NY is the current builder.  Yes, in 2021

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11 hours ago, ortegakid said:

I had one also, until wifey and I capsized and had to be towed back up by a pontoon boat, not again, FD much more fun and lighter.

My wife and I could right ours, but not like a "conventional" dinghy. For on thing, there's no rub rail to hook your toes on.

My thinking started with it being so much like a catamaran when upside down. I had my wife sit on the bow, then I used a righting line from the chainplate. It didn't like to come back up, but it did.

I wrote up the process for the Jn-18 newsletter and also sent it to the people who were racing them in the Texas Centerboard Circuit, 5 or 6 years ago.

That was the boat's biggest flaw. That, and no place to put a cooler. But hot damn they are fun to sail!

FB- Doug

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13 hours ago, ZeroTheHero said:

Force 5s are back in production. Weeks in Patchogue NY is the current builder.  Yes, in 2021

Brian Weeks was/is a pretty good Force 5 sailor.  I think he won the nationals a few years in a row.

I just looked and it appears they're going to have a National Race next month in MI....  May be a banner year as many folks are cutting lose and going places.  Would be a kick to see 20 plus boat show up.

 

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3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

My wife and I could right ours, but not like a "conventional" dinghy. For on thing, there's no rub rail to hook your toes on.

My thinking started with it being so much like a catamaran when upside down. I had my wife sit on the bow, then I used a righting line from the chainplate. It didn't like to come back up, but it did.

I wrote up the process for the Jn-18 newsletter and also sent it to the people who were racing them in the Texas Centerboard Circuit, 5 or 6 years ago.

That was the boat's biggest flaw. That, and no place to put a cooler. But hot damn they are fun to sail!

FB- Doug

So the Johnson 18 is kind of like that hot chick you picked up at the supermarket?

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5 hours ago, Gouvernail said:
9 hours ago, valcour said:

A really big ugly flowerpot 

Not sure but I think that might be Surfwind, a heavy clunker which I recall from decades gone by. Slowest boat ever actually given a Portsmouth handicap# by US Sailing (back then it was NAYRU).

This "boat" (used in the pejorative sense of the word) won't even make a good flowerpot. I can't think of anything it would actually be good for. Won't burn well, too much work to crush into aggregate. The dolly looks like a bit of a kludge too

FB- Doug

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Not a Butterfly, but looks like a copy. 'Fly has a single molded in cockpit, not the cooler storage or whatever that is in front of the Dagger. Foils are different as well. Butterfly has a metal rudder 

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1 hour ago, ziper1221 said:

what would be a fair offer for this boat? I suppose the titled trailer is worth a few hundred bucks and that is about it. No pictures of the sails. what is going on with the piece of aluminum bolted to the bottom of the gunwale? 

https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa/d/hialeah-1483-tasar-sailboat/7353057933.html

That piece of aluminum could be described as a shitty repair, IMHO. There are dinghies with chainplates like that but they are the same on both sides and not bodged in with lots of putty.

I would put the offer on this boat as however much you're willing to pay for the trailer, minus the disposal fee for the boat. A Tasar is fun sail, worth fixing up IMHO, but this one's been in the hands of somebody who ought to be puttering in the garden not fixing boats.

Lately, it has been a strong seller's market for boats because of the people who are eager to get out and get active all of a sudden, but that may be dying down now and back to the buyer's market. Money is the same thing it always was!

FB- Doug

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Somebody buy this so I don't. I had a '76 Sunfish in these colors that I loved (and sold for a Force 5). I always kind of wanted a Windflite since it has the wood coaming like the F5.

EDIT: This IS a Windflite and not a Sunfish.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/298943018364221/

 

Idk what this is, but for $400 with a motor...

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/348177500026089/

 

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22 minutes ago, wannabefd said:

Something about the classic lines and the trailer wheels really works for me.

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van/boa/d/port-moody-uffa-fox-flying-fifteen/7341579281.html

00l0l_g7fD5IM1LKSz_0CI0t2_1200x900.jpg

Wow, this one includes the fiberglass skin! What a deal!

A beauty, seriously. Probably the most elegant and iconic small keelboat eve, and this one seems to have some nice touches

FB- Doug

 

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