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recommend me a headsail furler.


frozenhawaiian

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BS: You can even say it three times and I still will not have the faintest idea what you are talking about.

I never mentioned "bearings" You made that up. I don't recall making any comments at all about the details of your furling system.

I may have commented on your flogging the idea in your typical manner.

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well I've been quite happily using the fosters spar setup in NZ for about 35years, very common on fiberglass H28's down here and they are quite idiot proof really, Mine is on a 22' mullet boat *(centreboard catboat with stays and a bowsprit) only drama thus far was a halyard let go in a spot of breeze and had to re hoist using the usual jib halyard which negated the furling bit however 5 mins to string a new halyard at anchor and away again no probs, they are cheap these units , yes they do have limitations and halyard tension is not what it could be but bloody bullet proof......and sail ok

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Please show me where I even mentioned "bearings". You are delusional again BS. You have a disconnect with reality.

 

Please show me where I even mentioned "bearings". You are delusional again BS. You have a disconnect with reality.

So what precisely are you claiming I have had trouble with? Is that based on your own personal experience with this rig, which we assume is far greater than my 34 years of mostly full time use of it? So don't be shy, do tell us of how many years and how many oceans you have personally crossed with this rig, so we can all judge the relevance and credibility of your comments.

 

 

how about you do the same asshole. or do you just wanna copy and paste the same bullshit over again and make unsupported claims about how amazing your shit is and make reference to the 2 or 3 people who have mentioned using them. meanwhile how many thousands of boats are sailing around with commercially made furlers. but we're all supposed to believe your furler is the greatest thing ever what? because you say so? by the way I have yet to see you post a photo of one of your wonder furlers.

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Nobody gives any love to the ProFurl... I'm on my first one (furler and PF).

 

Mine came with the boat, presumably 24 years ago when the boat was built. I think it's original, so did the rigger. The geniuses at Catana have in the past and I believe still do not install a toggle for the forestay. Therefore was a lot of odd loading on the furler which over the years damn near, but did NOT, kill it.

 

When I bought boat I had furler rebuilt, apparently you can do that with PF (btw I installed a forestay toggle). The furler is working, four years into my purchase/rebuild.

 

Yup, they're damn near bulletproof, but damn are they heavy. Bit on the stiff side too. Now that they are owned by Wichard/Charleston/Sparcraft/whoever, you can actually get service and parts. As far as I know, the rebuild is replacing the guts of the drum.

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The "Reefurl" system made in Aus started as a cheep and cheerful system using electrical conduit ? from memory, for the bearing surfaces. One still sees a lot of them around. Owners seem positive about them.

 

The only down side is the Halyard return system, similar to the one you described, which can make it difficult to get the first wrap in , as the taught halyard in front of the bowed extrusions requires a bit of force to start the first furl.

 

I owned a "Reefit" version "A" with the halyard return setup but with a foil top mounted simple halyard lock, which overcame this problem and gave good service.

 

And that's the essential weakness of internal halyard systems like the Reefurl, Alado, and CDI. They place compressive forces on the foil equal to twice luff tension. Even with quite low tension, I can sight up our CDI extrusion and see it buckling in a sort of sinusoidal wave. I have to build sails with the draft permanently forward to make up for low halyard tension. A really stiff metal extrusion can reduce (but not eliminate) deflection, but oh.my.god the weight of it. A halyard lock at the top halves the compressive force, but halyard locks are not 'simple' or foolproof, no more than top swivels are.

 

And yes, the ability to quickly adjust halyard tension on a fully deployed sail is important to draft and sail shape. Sailing with one or two permanent wraps in you headsail to prevent bowing of the compressed foil is kind of a shitty workaround.

 

A unicycle is an admirably simple machine with very little to go wrong with it. Much simpler than a two-wheeled bike with 15 gears, chain, shifters, deraillers, brakes, etc. Yet the vast majority or bicyclists have accepted the complexity of geared 2-wheelers because the added parts confer functional benefits, such as balance, speed, variable torque, and ability to stop from 35mph. Their choice is an informed one, and not some mass delusion fomented by the Chain&Sprocket lobby. They want the added performance & accept the complexity that goes with.

 

Simplicity is a virtue -- but it is not the only virtue.

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Most cruisers never bother adjusting halyard tension on a furler ,but adjusting the down haul tension is an easy option. The Fosters rig puts the luff slightly off the centre, which my going for a single slotted pipe eliminated.

Some used dingy mast extrusions

How expensive are the furler extruded sections, compared with schedule 40 tube? There are definately advantages to a closed section over slotted tube, torsional rigidity and reduced weight aloft being the first two. I can understand not wanting to use the furling drum, but the extrusion seems like a reasonable place to spend a few extra dollars.
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Ah the place got civil again.

 

And yea, there are intangible benefits from building vs buying as well as the KIS concept for cruiser that actually leave the dock/coast but...

 

Brent, the one bit I am not sure I am following (or would explain well) is that it seems all the compression (?) force from the halyard tension for the jib would be transferred to the extrusion and thus the extrusion would have to be over engineered/built compared to what would otherwise be necessary. Is that correct?

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Being a spar builder and metal guy I was asked a few years ago to survey one of BS's rig and boat, make some recomendations. Nice younger couple going south on the cheap that were capable of doing their own work, had tools and skill. Perfect boat for them. The rig had so many issues, each one a little puzzle that had solutions with variable pitfalls. There is no way any reputable shop would sign off on this mish mash then try to justify the labour cost and get paid. In this case the owner was prepared to assume the risk and not keep tally of their own time. I had a 5 minute look at the boat, I wouldnt know where to start. They are out there and good on em.

I hate working with junk or fixing things that some guy has learned how to be a fabricator on, my ass has been returned to me many times. I have learned my lessons and just won't do it anymore. I have nothing against BS or his stuff, Its just not for me or my customers.

Saying that...maybe already discussed here ( I cant read thru all this BS). With a halyard lock on top, adjusting luff tension at the tack simplifies this design.

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Firstly the Halyard lock. A bronze slotted "V" (weighing grams) the size of a quarter to capture a swage slug is a hell of a lot simpler than a swivel and winch.I got 15 years of trouble free service out of mine before selling the boat.

 

 

 

How does it release?

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Another thread ruined by BULLSHIT.

 

BS claims that none of his furlers have ever had any problems.

That they only cost $50 to build...

He claims that he only spends $30 per year on boat maintainence...

That his boats don't need antifouling paint..

That his steel boats never get any rust...

That a heavy, bilge keeler can make the kessel run in 2 parsecs...

 

You might well be a genius, BS, but there are so many obvious holes in your spiel, I will never believe a single word you say.

And it's dripping with vitriol for the industry in general, boat buyers, engineers, designers, and one in particular.

Sad, really, because you might have some good ideas, but they are lost in the BULLSHIT.

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With the luff fully supported by the luff rope in a slot, instead of point loaded by hanks ,

the load on the halyard is a fraction of what it would be with hanked on sails.

You're kidding, right?

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I think the torsional stiffness will be the limiting factor in most designs. Open sections like a cut schedule 40 tube need much heavier wall for the same stiffness as a commercial closed extrusion.

Welding the last two inches of the cut closed ,drastically improves it's torsional stiffness.

Sch 40 aluminum pipe is much thicker than most commercially made extrusions.

Yes, schedule 40 tube is much thicker than commercial furler extrusion. Since it is the same material, that schedule 40 tube is also multiple times the weight of the furler extrusion, to achieve the same torsional stiffness.
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Was that 65 Lbs also for a 20' length?

 

Or was it for a 40' or 50' section?

 

Or was it for the entire furling system?

 

Remember - apples to apples.

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Was that 65 Lbs also for a 20' length?

 

Or was it for a 40' or 50' section?

 

Or was it for the entire furling system?

 

Remember - apples to apples.

Pretty sure it was shipping weight in a complete unit. Likely includes the box, packaging and a bit of fudge factor.

 

At 34lbs for 20 feet the extrusion would weigh as much as the entire standing rigging on my old 28ft cruising boat.

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Just keep shovelling it, Brent, maybe somebody will buy your snake oil. Just not likely anyone here; but this lot isn't really the "build a large yacht in their backyard" crowd. Frankly, most of them are baiting you. I'd rather just go sailing.

 

You are the one making the outrageous claims that are hard to believe, especially to anyone with actual technical training or experience with non-homemade boats. Maybe I misquoted you, but that's because I'm not paying attention. I gather you think an aluminum pipe, 1.25" diameter x 40 feet length is a suitable headsail foil? (1.25 sch 40 pipe is actually 1.66"OD) Not for me, thanks.

 

As I've said before, you may have some good ideas, but I won't listen to them, because clearly some of them are false.

 

Once I discover someone is full of shit, I stop listening.

 

Guess I'll need to use that ignore button.

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I think the torsional stiffness will be the limiting factor in most designs. Open sections like a cut schedule 40 tube need much heavier wall for the same stiffness as a commercial closed extrusion.

Welding the last two inches of the cut closed ,drastically improves it's torsional stiffness.

Sch 40 aluminum pipe is much thicker than most commercially made extrusions.

Yes, schedule 40 tube is much thicker than commercial furler extrusion. Since it is the same material, that schedule 40 tube is also multiple times the weight of the furler extrusion, to achieve the same torsional stiffness.The 34 lbs for a 20 ft length of 1 1/4 inch sch 40 aluminiumn pipe ,

was in the same weight ballpark as the 65lbs someone mentioned here for a commercially made furler.

Don't automatically jump to confusions, by assuming all that is expensive

is automatically better. Don't buy marine equivalents of use car salemen's lines

A profurl extrusion is about 9 lbs for a 20' length. Pretty substantial weight saving. It is also smaller in diameter then a 1 1/4" nb pipe, so less windage. It also has a double luff groove, and other nice to have things.
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I think the torsional stiffness will be the limiting factor in most designs. Open sections like a cut schedule 40 tube need much heavier wall for the same stiffness as a commercial closed extrusion.

Welding the last two inches of the cut closed ,drastically improves it's torsional stiffness.

Sch 40 aluminum pipe is much thicker than most commercially made extrusions.

Yes, schedule 40 tube is much thicker than commercial furler extrusion. Since it is the same material, that schedule 40 tube is also multiple times the weight of the furler extrusion, to achieve the same torsional stiffness.
The 34 lbs for a 20 ft length of 1 1/4 inch sch 40 aluminiumn pipe ,

was in the same weight ballpark as the 65lbs someone mentioned here for a commercially made furler.

Don't automatically jump to confusions, by assuming all that is expensive

is automatically better. Don't buy marine equivalents of use car salemen's lines

A profurl extrusion is about 9 lbs for a 20' length. Pretty substantial weight saving. It is also smaller in diameter then a 1 1/4" nb pipe, so less windage. It also has a double luff groove, and other nice to have things.

 

It is easy to think what you make is fantastic when you have no how good the competition is.

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Hell, my shoe laces will hold a sail hoisted. Try to apply enuff tension to actually shape the sail requires a lot more than 1/8 wire, which has a break strength around 1700lbs. Wrap that around your small sheave will drop that rating. But since you have a slot in raw aluminum, in a few weeks corrosion will lock the sail luff in situ so firmly no halyard is required a all!!!

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A friend ,down there at the moment ,said it can be a long way between secure anchorages.

 

Just fyi - your 'friend' is wrong. There are excellent anchorages about every 5 miles all down the patagonian channels. And they are plenty deep.

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We're the US distributor/importer for Reefit furlers out of Tasmania. It's a superb cruising furler that's been well proven for decades in Australia. Exchange rates are favorable so prices are better than Harken and it's a better made unit. I sent you a PM.

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I have seen those supper light profurl extrusions ,so

fragile you can twist them easily, if the halyard

swivel jams ,as it so often does.

 

 

That must be why they are so popular on 60+ foot boats in the southern ocean.

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I have seen those supper light profurl extrusions ,so

fragile you can twist them easily, if the halyard

swivel jams ,as it so often does.

 

 

That must be why they are so popular on 60+ foot boats in the southern ocean.

 

 

But popular only among the sort of weird sailors who don't bounce their boats off reefs all day long

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We're the US distributor/importer for Reefit furlers out of Tasmania. It's a superb cruising furler that's been well proven for decades in Australia. Exchange rates are favorable so prices are better than Harken and it's a better made unit. I sent you a PM.

Can't work. To many parts. :rolleyes:

 

Good to know these are available in North America; just sent you an eMail requesting more info.

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