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After a long weekend... The wax will probably hold for 30 days before it fails and everything turns to chalk again.

I discovered a bit of lingering PO sabotage yesterday. I have always been dissatisfied or suspicious of my VHF radio's performance on the Tartan. It's new-ish, with AIS and GPS built in.

Here is the final product. I declare it "good enough."

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I’ve seen bypasses installed, usually for use when the potable water system is decommissioned during frostbite sailing. Never saw the logic on the Chesapeake. I bypass the potable water side to minimize antifreeze use during the winter as I have a 12 gallon HWH plus 4 water tanks draining and winterizing the HWH separately saves a lot of the pink stuff. 

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36 minutes ago, Ajax said:

Is it not sufficient to simply drain the water heater into the bilge and leave the valves open?

That works. Isolating it allows me to flush the cold water side and then back flush the hot water distribution lines. My system T’s supply to the hot water tank with a back flow preventer and the cold water line feed. That means as I flush each tank, the residual water in the lines feeds into the HW tank as well as the supply lines. Isolating the HW tank prevents that waste. I drain the HW tank and flush the CW supply lines and then backflush to HW lines from forward to aft and drain the residual from the HW tank and leave it open for the winter. 

With 4 water tanks, 2 heads and 3 showers (including transom) it saves about 6-7 gallons of antifreeze. 

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On 4/22/2018 at 7:31 AM, TwoLegged said:
1 hour ago, Ajax said:

Is it not sufficient to simply drain the water heater into the bilge and leave the valves open?

To winterize mine I pull both fresh water hoses off the heater and connect them together.  The HW heater gets drained into the bilge.  The hoses are flushed with pink stuff as part of the winterizing opf the rest of the fresh water system.

If the coolant ever started leaking  in the water heater circuit, I'd use a short piece of hose to connect the two fittings on the engine which feed the HW heater.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I learned a slightly painful lesson today.

While sailing yesterday, I looked up and observed a small hole in my mainsail, forward of the 2nd batten pocket. Upon detailed inspection back at the dock, I saw that the batten tip had chafed clean through the pocket, and then proceeded chafe a hole through the mainsail.

I took the main down and brought it home for patching. When I removed the batten, I observed that the batten is tapered. Like a fool, I put the thin, sharper end into the sail instead of the thicker, more blunt end. The push-in, velcro closure is easily strong enough to endure the chafe of the thin end of the batten.  I'll pull all the battens and make sure they're inserted in the proper direction.  The holes aren't large, and are easily repairable. Some 3M 5200, sail repair tape and sewing the patches on in a belt/suspenders/zippers and buttons approach.

The sail is old but the shape is surprisingly serviceable. Even so, I submitted some quote requests from two lofts this morning.  I guess that Firefly battery is going to have to wait.  I really don't want to go down the "used sail" route again. The genoa is new, so the main should match.

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8 minutes ago, Ajax said:

I learned a slightly painful lesson today.

While sailing yesterday, I looked up and observed a small hole in my mainsail, forward of the 2nd batten pocket. Upon detailed inspection back at the dock, I saw that the batten tip had chafed clean through the pocket, and then proceeded chafe a hole through the mainsail.

I took the main down and brought it home for patching. When I removed the batten, I observed that the batten is tapered. Like a fool, I put the thin, sharper end into the sail instead of the thicker, more blunt end. The push-in, velcro closure is easily strong enough to endure the chafe of the thin end of the batten.  I'll pull all the battens and make sure they're inserted in the proper direction.  The holes aren't large, and are easily repairable. Some 3M 5200, sail repair tape and sewing the patches on in a belt/suspenders/zippers and buttons approach.

The sail is old but the shape is surprisingly serviceable. Even so, I submitted some quote requests from two lofts this morning.  I guess that Firefly battery is going to have to wait.  I really don't want to go down the "used sail" route again. The genoa is new, so the main should match.

The thin end of my tapered battens go in forward; it's a full-batten main, but I think the principles are the same. I do have hefty batten receivers on the luff that are never going to chafe.

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Hmm...that's interesting. Maybe they're supposed go in thin-first and this was just wear and tear on an old sail. I thought I did it wrong.

I sewed a new zipper into my sail cover and some minor re-stitching last night. Nothing like a 40+ year old Sears Kenmore sewing machine. That thing is tough!

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Yes, thin-end goes in first. Think about where you want more vs. less curve.  Usually you'll have a cap or some type of protector around the ends, or, for some full-batten sails some type of receiver/socket. Even some tape wrapped around the sharp bits is better than nothing. 

Hard to find a used sail worth spending money on unless its from a hurricane victim. Maybe for a storm sail or cruising chute or other less-used cloth but NOT a main, and especially not for a fractional rig like yours where you get a lot of your power from the main and main shape counts a lot more than with us mast head genoa folks.

 

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13 minutes ago, py26129 said:

Probably a redundant question but did the batten have an end cap on it?

 

Image result for batten end caps

No. None of the battens came with end caps. Good point. I'll check with the local shop to see if they have any that will fit. If not, I'll pad the tips with duct tape or something.

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Maybe not duct tape, that falls apart pretty quickly. A sacrificial fabric sleeve to prevent chafe, or Rescue tape, which has many uses. 

https://www.amazon.com/Rescue-Tape-Self-fusing-Silicone-Clamshell/dp/B001JT0ET8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1526319235&sr=8-3&keywords=rescue+tape+self-fusing+silicone+tape 

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I've always just sanded the end of battens roundy and smooth. The only ones with end caps that I've had were also the only ones I had problems with.

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19 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I've always just sanded the end of battens roundy and smooth. The only ones with end caps that I've had were also the only ones I had problems with.

Eh, it's not really sharp it's just thin. The root problem is just that the sail is old.  It'll be a great backup sail if I stop using it soon and replace it.

I have a $3200 quote for a tri-radial main. Loose foot, 2 full/2 partial battens, cunningham, 2 reefs, draft stripes, numbers, insignia. Challenge Newport Pro Radial cloth. 2 year warranty.  The price is inline with my expectations and this local sailmaker gave me top notch service when he made my genoa.

*Sigh*  Money.

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2 hours ago, Ajax said:

Eh, it's not really sharp it's just thin. The root problem is just that the sail is old.  It'll be a great backup sail if I stop using it soon and replace it.

I have a $3200 quote for a tri-radial main. Loose foot, 2 full/2 partial battens, cunningham, 2 reefs, draft stripes, numbers, insignia. Challenge Newport Pro Radial cloth. 2 year warranty.  The price is inline with my expectations and this local sailmaker gave me top notch service when he made my genoa.

*Sigh*  Money.

I’d make sure those are tapered epoxy battens as a suggestion. Make a big difference, particularly for the full ones. 2 reefs is good given your coastal/offshore aspirations. For just the Chesapeake, one deep reef is usually sufficient. Outside of severe squalls that are normally short and violent. Outside of that, how many times do you expect to be down to 2 reefs and a jib?

 

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46 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

I’d make sure those are tapered epoxy battens as a suggestion. Make a big difference, particularly for the full ones. 2 reefs is good given your coastal/offshore aspirations. For just the Chesapeake, one deep reef is usually sufficient. Outside of severe squalls that are normally short and violent. Outside of that, how many times do you expect to be down to 2 reefs and a jib?

 

I don't know. :)  You know I have aspirations to travel outside the bay and I figured it would be less expense and hassle to have the 2nd reef added now, rather than later.  Hey, at least I didn't go full bluewater and request 3 reefs. ;)

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4 hours ago, Ajax said:

Eh, it's not really sharp it's just thin. The root problem is just that the sail is old.  It'll be a great backup sail if I stop using it soon and replace it.

I have a $3200 quote for a tri-radial main. Loose foot, 2 full/2 partial battens, cunningham, 2 reefs, draft stripes, numbers, insignia. Challenge Newport Pro Radial cloth. 2 year warranty.  The price is inline with my expectations and this local sailmaker gave me top notch service when he made my genoa.

*Sigh*  Money.

 

22 minutes ago, Ajax said:

I don't know. :) You know I have aspirations to travel outside the bay and I figured it would be less expense and hassle to have the 2nd reef added now, rather than later.  Hey, at least I didn't go full bluewater and request 3 reefs. ;)

Curious. Did you get a quote for 3Di? When I got quotes, the 3Di was cheaper than the tr-radial. Did you get normal depth reefs or do the 2 reefs that get the luff length of 3? 

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2 hours ago, Elegua said:

 

Curious. Did you get a quote for 3Di? When I got quotes, the 3Di was cheaper than the tr-radial. Did you get normal depth reefs or do the 2 reefs that get the luff length of 3? 

I sent a a quote request to North. Crickets so far.  2 normal reefs. 

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I have a similar sized main (P=39 E=12) and was going to buy a new main this spring and talked to North.  I wanted full-batten 8oz Dacron with 2 reefs (after 2 it might be time to furl it all in my opinion, or use a smaller jib).  Prices here include about +1000 for Dutchman system and Tides luff slides install.

Here's what I found: 

Cheapest: about $2000 for generic cross cut high-end main (challenge dacron, "offshore" weight)

North cross-cut (regular) about $3500

North Nordac 3Di about $6100 (yes almost double the cost)

I imagine a dracron tri-radial would be in the 4-5K range.

It isn't just the cloth you are buying. You are getting a lot of hardware and there is a lot of quality range in that. Doesn't matter to have 8.4oz challenge cloth and a cheap-ass head plate with only rivets.  You are also getting service and future service too. North has lofts all over and will support you with issues and reworks without shipping or a long drive.

That said, other non-boat things broke this spring that need more attention so sails are next year alas.

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Come to think of it, when I asked for quotes, the North guys didn't get back to me until months after I was already using my new sail.  I knew nothing about what features I wanted, so put myself in the hands of a local sailmaker with good reputation.  IIRC, he talked me out of full battens unless I also purchased a Tides Marine sail track system.  Which would have blown my meager budget.  He prophesied that with the kind of external track that I have, the forces on the battens would just chafe through, no matter how much they were protected.  

The plan was, I would retrofit to the Tides system at some point, and be ready by the time I needed a new sail.   Haven't done it yet.  Those boat-bucks don't seem to sit around for long...

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You know I probably would never have considered the tides track or the Dutchman had they not come with the boat. Now I'm a big fan. They make it possible to single hand a 35 foot boat. I can just uncleat the main halyard let go and the main just drops and flakes itself and won't fly off the boom.  Lazy Jacks would do similar but not the self flaking part as neatly I imagine. 

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1 hour ago, Ajax said:

I sent a a quote request to North. Crickets so far.  2 normal reefs. 

That's not nice of them.

I went for the two deep reefs. We'll see how well it works. 

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I've always had great service from Will Keyworth at North in Annapolis and Kenny Saylor ( now retired)  in Hampton, but I've always just called them, so you might try that.  Same for Clarke Mckinney at Quantum in Solomons...

I think you come across as a more serious customer by calling.  I'd guess there are a lot of lookie-loos that ask for an online quote with no intention of every actually buying a sail...

But I'm old enough that I pre-date the internet, so there's that...

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On 5/15/2018 at 12:40 PM, Innocent Bystander said:

I’d make sure those are tapered epoxy battens as a suggestion. Make a big difference, particularly for the full ones. 2 reefs is good given your coastal/offshore aspirations. For just the Chesapeake, one deep reef is usually sufficient. Outside of severe squalls that are normally short and violent. Outside of that, how many times do you expect to be down to 2 reefs and a jib?

 

+1 what IB said, but I'd also just get a cross cut. Cruising boat dude..tri-radial dacon on a cruising boat does not compute to me. A cross cut might be 30-40% cheaper. Maybe I could justify it on a roller genoa since it is bigger and their might be a benefit from weight savings to justify the cost, but for a main, take the low road and get a cross cut. (I have a Quantum cross cut 2+2 made from Challenge 8oz-ish, that is going on 10 years old.) I try not to abuse my sails and it is holding up great. One reef at 20%, but I don't ever plan to take my 4KSB out of the Chesapeake.

and +1 what Crash said. I used to work for Clarke back in the days before the internet. 

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23 minutes ago, Hike, Bitches! said:
On 5/15/2018 at 12:40 PM, Innocent Bystander said:

I’d make sure those are tapered epoxy battens as a suggestion. Make a big difference, particularly for the full ones. 2 reefs is good given your coastal/offshore aspirations. For just the Chesapeake, one deep reef is usually sufficient. Outside of severe squalls that are normally short and violent. Outside of that, how many times do you expect to be down to 2 reefs and a jib?

 

+1 what IB said, but I'd also just get a cross cut. Cruising boat dude..tri-radial dacon on a cruising boat does not compute to me. A cross cut might be 30-40% cheaper. Maybe I could justify it on a roller genoa since it is bigger and their might be a benefit from weight savings to justify the cost, but for a main, take the low road and get a cross cut. (I have a Quantum cross cut 2+2 made from Challenge 8oz-ish, that is going on 10 years old.) I try not to abuse my sails and it is holding up great. One reef at 20%, but I don't ever plan to take my 4KSB out of the Chesapeake.

 and +1 what Crash said. I used to work for Clarke back in the days before the internet. 

Yeah, left out the crosscut for a main. The loads in a main really don’t require triradial in Dacron. 

Also recommend an oversized leech. For a cruising boat, I like to spec “as much as I can get without touching the backstay.” 

 

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I did obtain a quote for a crosscut main. The price difference was only $170.00!! That's not a typo.

Also, my sail plan is much more "main driven" so my main is going to see more loads than a high aspect ribbon-main on a mast head rig with big, overlapping genoas.  I do want more roach and I'll discuss that with the sailmaker.  I want to be careful about not causing any extra weather helm though. If I add a lot of roach, powering up the main, what is the risk of that?

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Only $170? No brainer then. You're lucky! 

Go with as much roach as you feel comfortable flipping across the backstay in light air (chafe). You can trim out the excess weather helm. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Speaking of bigger headsails, I was recently gifted an assym in a sock. It was really for a 30 footer but my fractional rig makes the fore triangle a similar dimension to that boat.

It's a nice, clean chute with no numbers and no patches. Although we had no wind this weekend, I put it up for a test. It's only a tiny bit small, if at all.  I rigged the pole downhaul as the tack line to the anchor roller and simply ran the line back to the cockpit as per usual.  If the sailing conditions ever quit emulating Seattle, I might actually get to use it.

I also rigged up a TackRite boom brake.  This just slows down a gybe via friction, which is handy for a solo sailor in a frisky breeze.

Apparently this is what I do now. I don't sail anymore, I just add shit to the boat. :rolleyes:

 

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  • 4 months later...

Time for winter projects-

After much prior discussion in this thread, I am finally just about ready to replace my leaking water heater. No, really. I mean it this time. At least, I think I do.  As a refresher, this task requires:

- Dismounting and moving the compressor for an Adler-Barbour Cold Machine compressor off of the top of the water heater, without disconnecting or otherwise breaking the refrigerant tubing.

- Cutting the failed water heater in half with a sawzall down in the lazarette because it will no longer fit through the original exit due to other equipment and exhaust hose in the way.

- Sanding away 1/16th of an inch of the lip of the cockpit locker to allow the replacement water heater to fit down into the lazarette.

The original unit is a Raritan upright cylinder of 6 gallon capacity that is ridiculously expensive to replace and there's nothing special about it at all. The replacement is a cubical, Attwood water heater of the same capacity.  I've purchased all the threaded nipples and valves that the water heater requires. I'll be adding valves to bypass the core of the water heater in case it fails.

When re-mounting the A-B Cold Machine back onto the top of the new water heater, I'll probably need to add 3 inch stand-offs to keep the compressor at its original height in order to avoid excessive bending and re-shaping of the copper tubing.

Part of me says "Fuck this, just join the engine coolant hoses together, cut out the old heater and do without hot water, you fucking pansy."   Unfortunately, I've discovered that hot water onboard is really useful. I've also discovered that the water heater acts as sort of a pressure accumulator for the whole water system. When the water heater is bypassed, the electric water pump is pumping against a "dead head."  This means that when you open a faucet, the pressure switch short cycles causing the water pump to operate in short, rapid bursts. You should see what it does on the breaker panel ammeter.

So...I'm kind of committed to this shitty, messy project.

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I did exactly the same project on my boat. Fortunately the old Raritan came out in one piece. The new heater, a 6 gallon Seaward, was a much better size to maneuver into place under the cockpit sole. I can't speak for the Attwood, but my new hot water heater seems to take a bit more engine run time to really heat up. I suspect the heat exchanger on the Raritan was bigger. FWIW, those old Raritans were pretty well regarded, perhaps that's why they are so expensive?

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15 minutes ago, Jim in Halifax said:

I did exactly the same project on my boat. Fortunately the old Raritan came out in one piece. The new heater, a 6 gallon Seaward, was a much better size to maneuver into place under the cockpit sole. I can't speak for the Attwood, but my new hot water heater seems to take a bit more engine run time to really heat up. I suspect the heat exchanger on the Raritan was bigger. FWIW, those old Raritans were pretty well regarded, perhaps that's why they are so expensive?

Well, the Raritan did last around 30 years so it doesn't owe me anything.  Most  complaints I see with the Attwood/Dometic are electrical failures of one kind or another. I never bother with the water heater except by with engine heating so that won't be a problem for me.

If the tank rots out in a short time, I'll get pissed off and buy a pricier unit next time.

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@Hobie Dog All true.

Here's a question I have-  The Raritan tank is supposedly "glass lined."  What fresh hell will I be unleashing by cutting this with a sawzall? Glass dust or shards flying everywhere, or am I worrying over nothing?

Hey, thanks for the T-33 owners tip. My buddy and I are actually trying to put together a T-33 class for the Miles River Race or something.

Edit: D'oh!  That's my buddy who sent out the inquiry on the SMSA FB page.

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Have NO idea what mess cutting the tank will make??? But whatever the Vegas odds are on this I am take the over, meaning A MESS I am betting!

"- Cutting the failed water heater in half with a sawzall down in the lazarette because it will no longer fit through the original exit due to other equipment and exhaust hose in the way."

What "other equipment" is in the way? Moving the exhaust hose will be way easier than cutting that bitch in half!

 

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14 minutes ago, Hobie Dog said:

Have NO idea what mess cutting the tank will make??? But whatever the Vegas odds are on this I am take the over, meaning A MESS I am betting!

"- Cutting the failed water heater in half with a sawzall down in the lazarette because it will no longer fit through the original exit due to other equipment and exhaust hose in the way."

What "other equipment" is in the way? Moving the exhaust hose will be way easier than cutting that bitch in half!

 

No...moving the exhaust hose will be an enormous PITA. Also, there is a wooden stringer that I'd have to cut and re-laminate back together and a wood partition that I'd have to remove. The partition isn't terrible but the rest of it just makes me say that cutting up the tank is the way to go.

The first thing I will try, is simply removing the tank's metal skin and insulation to reduce its diameter and see if I can pass it up through the cockpit locker hatch. That's just a few screws.

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3 minutes ago, py26129 said:

Ajax. If that gets you down to the glass part, then, maybe you can wrap it in a bag and or a blanket and break it up

 

 

The inner tank is metal, it's just glass-lined...sort of like those old Thermos bottles.  I *think* it's just a very thin layer for anti-corrosive properties and not so much for insulation.

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That's a little less fun. I don't envy you that project.  I'm happy that all I have planned is replacing the lenses in my hatches and a leak between the head and the holding tank

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Get a bigger hammer.

 

Seriously, when you are down to that "glass lined tank" would it be possible to beat it down enough to let it fit rather than cutting it up? Cutting a glass lined metal tank will make a gigantically horrible mess - glass powder everywhere.

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21 minutes ago, longy said:

  The 'glass lined' I believe is just the insulation on the outside of the tank. Looks just like household insulation.

Like 1/2" of fiberglass wool. In my case, a little wet where I changed out the P/T valve.

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6 hours ago, Elegua said:

So no glass-lined tanks of old Latrobe? 

Just like the tanks at Latrobe "glass lined" means the tanks are really just "enameled" steel. Like one of those black lobster pots you use for a clam bake. The steel in coated with a glass frit and heated to melt it. Makes a good non toxic waterproof rust proofing which is cheap and heat resistant. Most domestic hot water tanks do this as well. Eventually the glass cracks some place and rust starts, but it is still a good technique.  Now imagine a sawzall going through a lobster pot. Gonna be making a mess. But is should all fall into the bilge. Wear a dust mask.

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1 hour ago, debonAir said:

Just like the tanks at Latrobe "glass lined" means the tanks are really just "enameled" steel. Like one of those black lobster pots you use for a clam bake. The steel in coated with a glass frit and heated to melt it. Makes a good non toxic waterproof rust proofing which is cheap and heat resistant. Most domestic hot water tanks do this as well. Eventually the glass cracks some place and rust starts, but it is still a good technique.  Now imagine a sawzall going through a lobster pot. Gonna be making a mess. But is should all fall into the bilge. Wear a dust mask.

This is kind of what I envisioned, but you've provided some excellent detail, thanks.  I figured that the coating cracked and allowed the tank to finally rust out. The tank hadn't been pressurized in years until I bought the boat so I'm sure that the water blew out a pin hole in the weakest part of the tank. It was a slow weep but it would cause the bilge pump to run 2x daily. Irritating, to say the least.

Yeah, I'll wear a mask and eye protection and coveralls.  I'm trying to decide between a sawzall or a pneumatic cutoff wheel.

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13 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

No sparks with a sawzall.....

Good point. Although I'm diesel auxiliary, the fuel tank and propane locker are nearby. Thanks.

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Probably way too late for this question but are you sure the tank is done?  I had my bilge filled this summer courtesy of a failing pressure relief valve.  A few bucks at the local home improvement store fixed the problem PDQ 

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4 minutes ago, py26129 said:

Probably way too late for this question but are you sure the tank is done?  I had my bilge filled this summer courtesy of a failing pressure relief valve.  A few bucks at the local home improvement store fixed the problem PDQ 

Yeah, I'm sure. All the fittings on the water heater are easily viewable and the water isn't leaking from any of them. It's leaking from the body of the water heater, getting out through the steel skin. I too, was hoping for an easy fix.

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30 minutes ago, py26129 said:

Probably way too late for this question but are you sure the tank is done?  I had my bilge filled this summer courtesy of a failing pressure relief valve.  A few bucks at the local home improvement store fixed the problem PDQ 

Did you actually find a 75 psi valve, or did you just go with the standard 150 psi household valve? Curious because I had to special-order the 75 psi valve, it took two months, and I ended up with two of them.

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Alright, good progress today.

I have fitted potable-safe valves and barbs to the water side of the new water heater, teflon thread tape, etc.  Some folks think I'm going overkill by plumbing in an heater core bypass in case of core leaks so I compromised-  I will store a double-ended barb on a clip or a lanyard in the engine compartment. If there's a leak, I can pop the hoses off of the heater core and join them with the hose barb.

Here comes the fun part:

I managed to un-mount, slide over, and suspend the A-B Cold Machine compressor without dicking up the freon tubing. I used a wide, flat, cloth strap sort of like what you use to secure your kayak to your car roof.  This was the part of the job I was most concerned with- Not breaking one system while repairing another. :rolleyes:

With the compressor out of the way, I removed the plywood mount from the compressor from the top of the water heater. Next, I set about bypassing the water heater core/heat exchanger with my double-ended hose barb (in case I need to run the engine). I then removed all valves and fittings from the water heater to slim it down and get rid of protuberances. Finally, I unmounted the tank.

It's just rolling around in the lazarette at this point. I'm going to cut of the skin with a pair of tin snips. The tank is a thick beast and there won't be any smashing it flat with a sledge hammer.  I'm on my way to borrow the sawzall and I'll cut it up and remove it tomorrow.  The new heater installation will be a snap after this.

20181110_144016.jpg

20181110_144023.jpg

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I found the leak.  The electric heating element rotted away and fell into the tank. It was weeping where the element screws into the tank. This thing was disgusting and needed replacing. 

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On 11/15/2018 at 5:00 PM, Ajax said:

Those coils are neat.  I'm replacing the hose this winter though. 

If you're using hose again with a similar route and it will be hot, I'd still add one.  We noticed a longer service life on heater hose for hydronic systems by doing this anywhere there was a 90 degree bend when installing.     Much nicer is to run pex, but that can be a lot of work if your boat is all hose. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

@jgbrown PEX lines are in the future but due to some bends, will not replace everything. Baby steps... :)

 

This weekend, I have peeled off the nasty, drooping, automotive-grade headliner material that Tartan installed on the undersides of the decks, in the main salon/saloon/cabin.  It was fairly dry and what moisture it contained seemed due to the very high humidity from the recent rains we've had. We're due for rain again today, so I will check all the newly exposed deck fastenings for any leaks. I will correct them and then I'll replace the headliner material with white PVC Arex panels.

After futzing with the headliner, I removed and rebuilt a Bosworth Guzzler 500 pump that a PO installed as a manual holding tank transfer pump. This allows me to empty the holding tank overboard when offshore. The diaphragm was old, cracked and weeping. A disgusting job to be sure, but now it's done and I should be good for another 10 years. I anticipate that I might use the pump this summer on my way to New England.

I've brought the Lavac toilet down to the boat for installation. Hopefully, that job will go as smoothly as the last few jobs.

You know you have "arrived" at a good maintenance point when you're working on cosmetics and comfort features like water heaters and fancy toilets. :)

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Oh, I forgot to share this-

 Did you guys know that a cosmetic "wrap" is available instead of painting your hull? Does anyone have any experience with this? What's the cost? The longevity?  A fellow Tartan 33 owner shared this on Facebook but did not provide any details. Check out these pics! This is not a paint job!

Wrap3.jpg.331adea25a1fb6094aea885cbf562161.jpg 

Wrap1.jpg

Wrap2.jpg

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I’ve seen them at the boat show the last couple of years. Mostly seem to specialize in flashy graphics for ski boats. At least one of the racing boats on my dock has a vinyl “wrap” job though it might be home brew. It’s more of a “tiled” application.  No idea how they hold up or interact with other components.  I was kind of under the impression that they’re meant to be changed out every year or two as “Art.”  

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51 minutes ago, toddster said:

I’ve seen them at the boat show the last couple of years. Mostly seem to specialize in flashy graphics for ski boats. At least one of the racing boats on my dock has a vinyl “wrap” job though it might be home brew. It’s more of a “tiled” application.  No idea how they hold up or interact with other components.  I was kind of under the impression that they’re meant to be changed out every year or two as “Art.”  

One strike against them, is that they will not tolerate bumping or scratching and repairs are probably not possible or a pain in the ass. The company that did this fellow's boat gave him a 5 year warranty, which impressed me. I too, would expect that these appliques would only be good for a couple of years.

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FWIW, the name on my boat was applied as a vinyl sticker, in early 2012.  It was made from a  lesser grade of vinyl because the "High quality" stuff did not come in the colors I wanted.  I was told that I could expect no more than 5 years until it would need to be replaced.  So far it still looks good with no evidence of fading.   I'm in the great white north so UV may be a little less than around the Chesapeake but the vilyl is exposed to the weather 12 months / year.

I would suspect abrasion would be a much bigger issue, especially where fenders would be rubbing. I have to be very careful when polishing the boat that I don;t mess up the vinyl.

 

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@monsoon ...LMAO...my God, that's horrid.

 

Happiness is a dry boat. I visited the boat yesterday, during the day's rain storm and not a single fastener or fitting was leaking from the port deck where I'd exposed the underside. There's a lot of hardware in that location. Three stanchion bases, a jib track with a squillion through-bolts and the port chainplate. I can feel good about putting it back together.

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  • 3 months later...

Ok, next project down-  Replacing the shitty (pardon the pun) Wilcox-Crittenden toilet with a Lavac vacu-flush throne.

This was tricky. The throne room is very tight. The Lavac uses a Henderson bilge pump, which is a big lump. It's bulky. There's a louvered door for the wet locker behind the toilet. Basically, there's no way to mount the pump in the area immediately around the toilet because the pump would be in your face when you sit. (not attractive) or it would block the locker door.

So, I had to sacrifice space in the wet locker but this made the installation very tidy. Nothing to see, except the throne. The inlet and discharge hoses simply disappear directly into the bulkhead behind the toilet. You make your "deposit" in the bowl, close the seat and lid and open the locker to operate the pump. It's not inconvenient but I can't stuff the locker as full as I used to or you can't swing the handle for the pump. No big deal.

I had to drill a 3 holes with a hole saw to route the new hoses the particular way required to create the siphon the toilet requires to flush. Also no big deal. A hair dryer softened the old hoses enough to pry them off of the barbs without too much fuss.  I had to use Raritan Sani-Flex because it's the most flexible and could take the tight turns required. I know it's not as good as Shields hose, but it'll be fine for a few years, at least.

Tartan thoughtfully left voids under the throne pedestal so that I could route hoses and unbolt/bolt the old and new throne.  Everything is done except for bolting down the new throne.

First photo: Pedestal with old bowl removed, pump still in place. You can see how the bowl is actually off center on the pedestal. This is normal.

Second photo: New throne, sitting unbolted in more or less it's final position. It will remain off center, or you'll be crammed up against the ice-cold mast when you poop in the morning.

Third photo: You can see the pump in the wet locker, nicely hidden. I'll secure the hoses better so they aren't in the way as much.

All you guys who buy an entire new Jabsco every 2-3 years because "it's cheap", just stop it.  If you have the space to install it properly, the Lavac is the last toilet you'll ever buy and you'll probably never rebuild the pump. You'll probably never clog the pump, either.  Your spouse will thank you. You won't worry when non-sailing guests use it.

I can't wait to poop in it!

T_pump.jpg

Lavac.jpg

H_Pump.jpg

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On 3/10/2019 at 9:22 PM, Ajax said:

Ok, next project down-  Replacing the shitty (pardon the pun) Wilcox-Crittenden toilet with a Lavac vacu-flush throne...

All you guys who buy an entire new Jabsco every 2-3 years because "it's cheap", just stop it.  If you have the space to install it properly, the Lavac is the last toilet you'll ever buy and you'll probably never rebuild the pump. You'll probably never clog the pump, either.  Your spouse will thank you. You won't worry when non-sailing guests use it.

Nice job Ajax. You are no doubt right about the quality of Lavac but I replaced my "shitty (pardon the pun) Wilcox-Crittenden" seventeen years ago with...a Jabsco! Not a hiccup in all that time, just a tablespoon of cooking oil every week or two to keep everything pumping smoothly. I realize YMMV.

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18 minutes ago, Jim in Halifax said:

Nice job Ajax. You are no doubt right about the quality of Lavac but I replaced my "shitty (pardon the pun) Wilcox-Crittenden" seventeen years ago with...a Jabsco! Not a hiccup in all that time, just a tablespoon of cooking oil every week or two to keep everything pumping smoothly. I realize YMMV.

I think people prematurely kill their toilet pump seals by running pink anti-freeze through them. Do you winterize yours this way, or do you just drain all the water out? Your longevity is impressive.

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2 hours ago, Ajax said:

I think people prematurely kill their toilet pump seals by running pink anti-freeze through them. Do you winterize yours this way, or do you just drain all the water out? Your longevity is impressive.

I just drain it (after thoroughly rinsing it) and leave the large plug out - no pink antifreeze. But when the time comes, I think its cheaper to replace a Jabsco than rebuild it.

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22 minutes ago, Jim in Halifax said:

I just drain it (after thoroughly rinsing it) and leave the large plug out - no pink antifreeze. But when the time comes, I think its cheaper to replace a Jabsco than rebuild it.

It is cheaper, that's why people just replace the entire unit. I understand the financial and labor implications but the concept of throwing away entire toilets just doesn't sit well with me, so I went with the Lavac solution.

I did install a new Jabsco on my old Pearson 30. It never gave me any problems but it used a lot of water and it just seemed to confuse the hell out of non-sailors.

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1 hour ago, steele said:

You can buy a pump assembly for the jabsco. The price is about $50 less than the whole head and very easy to replace. The rebuilt kit is a bit less but a lot more work. 

If you keep an eye on them, Defender runs the Jabsco on sale at a price where a pump and a new seat cost out higher than the entire toilet.  

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I've done better than any of that on the last two Jabsco's I bought.

A local new boat dealer pulls the full size Jabsco's from all their new imports over 40' and installs electrics. They sell the unused Jabsco's on CL.

I've bought two in the past 5 years - one for $120 and one for $150.

Cheaper that a rebuild kit at retail.

 

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Don’t want to add drift but has anyone had experience with Airhead heads?

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

Yes, but he's not here. How are they different?

I really don’t know as I have never used the Airhead.

My preception is the C-Head is much simpler and straight forward.

As you know Ish I like simple.

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On 3/12/2019 at 3:07 PM, woahboy said:

Don’t want to add drift but has anyone had experience with Airhead heads?

I have had a Nature's Head on our boat since buying it.  It was installed on the first day of ownership.  It was both gross and felt great to pull out 10ish feet of sewer line and the holding tank and old toilet.  The Airhead and NaturesHead are pretty similar in price and tank sizes.

It's great.  It is a lot simpler than a traditional head system and there is really nothing to break.  We have to dump the pee tank once every other day when cruising (as a couple) or daily when racing (with 8-9 crew).  The poo tank goes a very long time, I think we've emptied it twice, and once was from getting fruit flies.  

I'm glad that I got the Nature's Head over the C-Head.  The C-Head uses an even smaller pee tank (1 gallon vs 2) and we'd fill it up very fast while racing.  It's really annoying when you overflow the pee tank and I wish the Nature's head made it easier to monitor the fluid level.  If I was more of a risk taker I'd just plumb the pee straight out to the water.

We have good instructions over it and our crew generally seems to think that it works fine.  A number of other people in our club have checked ours out and installed them.

I've never hooked up the ventilation fan for the head, but do have an external vent hooked up.  It goes to a through hull at the waterline (it was a vent for the old holding tank) and loop that line up to cabin height and back down.  I haven't had any smell problems, so I've never gotten around to running the power cable to keep the fan going.

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4 hours ago, kimbottles said:

I really don’t know as I have never used the Airhead.

My preception is the C-Head is much simpler and straight forward.

As you know Ish I like simple.

Yes, I know you have posted you like me previously, but I know you just put up with me because my wife is so * pleasant.

I may be simple, but I have nice feet.

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