Jump to content

No Sail for You


Guinness421

Recommended Posts

Greetings,

 

My wife and I are members of an US east coast yacht club. She'd liked to learn how to sail one of the fleets 420's or Lasers and inquired about a lesson but was told by the sailing chair that they were for Junior racing only and were off limits to the general membership - a lesson on one of the Sunfish's could be provided, however. It's certainly laudable to get kids involved in sailing but seems odd that an entity that calls itself a "yacht club" discourages it's paying members from participating in the sport. I've long resigned myself to the fact it's more a pool and dining club though I was hopeful that either interest in adult sailing would increase or the club would do more to foster participation beyond member's children. So I was just curious if this is typical and perhaps any advice on how to proceed. I expect the best thing at this point is to just buy our own Laser or perhaps an Aero, which I hear has been well received, and give it a go on our own.

Thanks,

Link to post
Share on other sites

My yacht club also has dinghies just for junior sailing, but I'm not sure what would happen if I asked to use one outside the program. My club also provides Ideal 18s for adults to take out at their leisure, cost of use about $150 per season. I agree that completely barring adults from learning and sailing is counterproductive and doesn't do anything to help the sport.

 

Is there a member at your yacht club who owns a 420 or similar, and could take your wife for some lessons? I have a JY-15 and if another member were to approach me and ask for some lessons I'd be more than happy to take them out and teach.

 

Another option, ask at the local colleges or with the junior sailing admin if there are any college kids with their own dinghies who would be willing to provide lessons. Lots of high school and college kids have their own dinghies (some probably stored at your yacht club or one nearby) and if they're sailing with their school team, they're likely to be quite proficient. I'm sure for beer money per hour, someone would be happy to teach.

Also, about those kids with boats...post an ad and ask around to see if there are any parents whose kids are away or have lapsed in their sailing and left dinghies just hanging around the yard. Maybe someone will let you borrow or rent one. If there is a local frostbite fleet, find out who runs it and ask them to email around for a similar arrangement. I only use my dinghy in winter, like most of my fleet, and then we do big boats in summer. So the dinghies may be available and unused. Finding and emailing local fleet captains should yield results. Your local YRA is a good place to ask who those folks are and how to contact them.

 

As a last option, check for community sailing centers in your area. Some may have adult dinghy opportunities. J World in annapolis and newport have small j boats to learn on (not dinghies but hey it's better than nothing) and oakcliff on long Island has a variety of bigger boat options and some dinghy programs, just to name a few.

 

Where there's a will there's a way -- don't give up just yet! If all else fails, buying a dinghy isn't a huge investment and it's definitely a lot of fun to have. If you're near long Island or CT and need more direction, feel free to message me for help.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join my club on the Chesapeake. We have 4 different types of boats in our Shared Boat Program.

Just reserve your date by clicking on the online calendar.

 

Does your club have a Shared Boat fleet outside of those 420's that they haven't told you about?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Great responses above - Our club on the mid-Chesapeake also offers Adult Learn-to-Sail programs and has a "Waterfront Access" program where for a minimal seasonal fee you get access to kayaks, paddleboards, sunfish and J-22s. If your club has no similar programs (or plans to develop one soon), google the other clubs in your area for the contact info of the Fleet Captain or Office Manager. If your club has plans to develop a program, get involved and it may happen much sooner !

 

All clubs should be actively trying to grow the sport which means attracting adults who don't have boats (yet) !

Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem you cite is one, if not the biggest problems in the sport these days. I see your problem as very typical. The myopia US Sailing and then the clubs have over the "pathway" for junior sailing at the expense of everything else has created a huge logjam. Clubs need to wake up to the fact that adults learn differently, and have different requirements than do kids. This means a lot of things, starting with time, and then equipment. Clubs also need to wake to the fact that if a place that was founded by sailors to support sailing minimizes or stops serving that purpose, sooner or later the club will die.

 

Blonde makes a lot of really good points, and where you can you should follow up on them.

 

Nothing wrong with learning to sail on a Sunfish, particularly if you are in warm water. It also depends on your wife and her attitude/style. If she's really athletic, a Sunfish will be fine. If she's not, then this might not be the right experience for her. 420's can even be a bit small for two adults, but probably better than a Sunfish.

 

At my club we have a fleet of 420's that are used for high school and college sailing. In the summer they are used for the junior program, which is very small. There are 18 boats, and they never all get used. 99% of the time they are sitting on their floating dock. I had been saying for years that we should be using them on Friday nights for "family fun sailing". I don't care who sails the boat - but NOT just kids. Any combination of two humans would be great. Last summer some other guys who knew the Fleet Captain better than I do actually got approval to do just that, and this summer the Friday night sailing will expand. The idea is simply to provide sailing opportunity mixed in with some fun, inventive racing. Emphasis on fun and inventive. No semi-pro shit allowed. It's a squeaky wheel/grease sort of thing - find some other like minded people in your club, or better yet, people who might be interested in joining, if this sort of opportunity were available to them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure if it's still done the same but when I taught sailing at my club in Newport, which offered sailing lessons to the public, we had adult classes two nights a week to anyone who wanted to get a minimal instruction only membership to the club. A lot of the adult students later joined the club and kept sailing. And when I taught at Pleon YC in college, we had two afternoons a week that were for wives of members of the three major clubs in Marblehead to learn to sail. It's unfathomable to me why a club would be averse to encouraging their membership to take a more active role in the sailing aspect: that's what will get more kids involved. Very short sighted.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I can kind of understand why they are apprehensive about letting members use the 420's outside of the Jr. Program BUT there should be an alternative for PAYING MEMBERS.

 

our club

 

1. has 4 JY15's for adult club use ( and YES, we keep the 420's , Optis and O'Pen Bics for the Jr.'s exclusively...I spend weeks before/during and after Jr. Sailing keeping them in good shape for the kids)

2. 1 Ensign for club members use

3. all new members get a FREE US Sailing Adult Keelboat course upon joining the club (including spouse) this is alos open to non members for a cost.........

 

after that, they are free to use the Ensign to keep practicing on(with at least 1 other person in the boat), they take out the JY15's at their leisure

 

learning to sail on a 420 can be quite a challenge....better to learn on a safe, stable platform

Link to post
Share on other sites

This sounds like something to bring up to the board since you are a paying and voting member. Try to address the concerns of the junior sailing program while providing a venue for adults to learn to sail. I would not give up with your existing club. Everything has a solution. It seems reasonable to offer adult sailing program at least once a week at a minimum.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This sounds like something to bring up to the board since you are a paying and voting member. Try to address the concerns of the junior sailing program while providing a venue for adults to learn to sail. I would not give up with your existing club. Everything has a solution. It seems reasonable to offer adult sailing program at least once a week at a minimum.

My experiences, some YC's see dink one design racing/sailing as child's play, it's really seen as beneath something grown men and women do as its for kids is the mindset...not that I agree, just trying to offer a possible understanding as to politics...

Link to post
Share on other sites

why don't you ask about the adult sailing class? if you don't have one, start one...

 

we have tremendous participation from people wanting to learn to sail.... also, if you have competing fleets, it's a good way to introduce people to "your" fleet... we have used that strategy and now we are now one of the more active fleets at the club...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guiness, what area are you in?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the responses - this is certainly encouraging and helpful! I've sailed Sunfish and Hobie 16's for many years and have taught my wife on both such that she can sail the Sunfish on her own reliably. She also took a 2 day course in Annapolis sailing a Benetau. We also both windsurf and recently spent a week in Hatteras. So she has a decent foundation and a strong initiative such that she wants to try something a little more challenging than a Sunfish so I was admittedly disappointed with the guarded response of our local club. I've found sailing to be a wonderful activity requiring creativity and discipline yet providing a sense of accomplishment as well as a valuable source of stress relief. With all these benefits, it puzzled me the lack of adult sailing programs at our club given the demands of being an adult. There already seems like fewer sailors than there used to be on our beach that I would think such an inquiry would be viewed as an opportunity to grow the sailing community. It's not all bad - the make a good club sandwich.

We ended up joining another yacht club in northern Chesapeake that has a much better boat share program and hosts the University of Delaware sailing team. The above suggestion about contacting students for lessons or used boats would be most helpful in this instance. Other suggestions about adult sailing classes, getting more involved, trying other clubs - again, all very helpful. But most helpful is the sense of support and encouragement. Will bookmark this page for reminders.

Cheers,

Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings,

 

My wife and I are members of an US east coast yacht club. She'd liked to learn how to sail one of the fleets 420's or Lasers and inquired about a lesson but was told by the sailing chair that they were for Junior racing only and were off limits to the general membership - a lesson on one of the Sunfish's could be provided, however. It's certainly laudable to get kids involved in sailing but seems odd that an entity that calls itself a "yacht club" discourages it's paying members from participating in the sport. I've long resigned myself to the fact it's more a pool and dining club though I was hopeful that either interest in adult sailing would increase or the club would do more to foster participation beyond member's children. So I was just curious if this is typical and perhaps any advice on how to proceed. I expect the best thing at this point is to just buy our own Laser or perhaps an Aero, which I hear has been well received, and give it a go on our own.

Thanks,

 

 

How about letting the wife learn on a Sunfish and then see if she wants to learn more on a Laser or something else? She will learn perfectly well on the Sunfish and may actually decide that is the boat she likes as opposed to something more powerful. Have more of an open mind.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The above suggestion about contacting students for lessons or used boats would be most helpful in this instance. Other suggestions about adult sailing classes, getting more involved, trying other clubs - again, all very helpful. But most helpful is the sense of support and encouragement. Will bookmark this page for reminders.

Cheers,

Highly recommend the college kids. I have three who are match racing with me now and they're pure genius. My former frostbite partner was a college sailor as well and he taught me tons of things. They also generally have none of the annoying attitude of certain "professional instructors" or whatever those are.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been a member of a number of Clubs over the years.

There is always a perennial problem of Sailing / Yacht Clubs becoming a 'cheap bar and restaurant' for members, and the rot really sets in when the Clubhouse armchair sailors end up running the Committee, and everyone wonders what happened.

Everyone loves a cheap drink and a feed. There's an inevitability to it unless a Club is active for its membership.

 

Good Clubs promote sailing across the board, encouraging beginners of ALL ages, providing rental boats for ALL ages, if they can, and ideally supporting racing and cruising, to suit all tastes.

When you combine good Club management with good fleet management, great things can happen, AND the bar can make a healthy profit.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If the club isn't doing anything to help promote adult sailing, find another club. Or go to a community sailing association. Most yacht clubs today are so little about sailing it would be laughable if it wasn't so sad.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Having put my son through our club's junior program, to the extent that he won gold in our provincial summer games in 420 and is now the head instructor at the club here are my thoughts on this:

 

1) the adults that want to use the club's junior sailing program boats have no idea of the amount of maintenance which goes into them. They see these nice boats on the dock and want to use them. Well, the problem is that if they break something they want to just walk away - "someone else must be responsible for fixing them". Then the next day the juniors want to use them, one boat is out of commission because nobody fixed it. Very annoying.

 

2) we run adult learn-to-sail programs - and you have to pay for them because the instructor, who is highly trained, needs to be paid. Somehow yacht club members think that instruction should be free and included in their membership fee. Well, instruction is actually a lot of work for the instructors. Typically adult programs are in the evening, and the instructors are beat from instructing the juniors during the day.

 

In summary, if you want to learn how to sail a 420, go buy your own, or form a syndicate and buy one for several people, then hire an instructor to teach you. BTW, don't forget to donate it to your club junior program when you are done with it.

 

dash

Link to post
Share on other sites

Having put my son through our club's junior program, to the extent that he won gold in our provincial summer games in 420 and is now the head instructor at the club here are my thoughts on this:

 

1) the adults that want to use the club's junior sailing program boats have no idea of the amount of maintenance which goes into them. They see these nice boats on the dock and want to use them. Well, the problem is that if they break something they want to just walk away - "someone else must be responsible for fixing them". Then the next day the juniors want to use them, one boat is out of commission because nobody fixed it. Very annoying.

 

2) we run adult learn-to-sail programs - and you have to pay for them because the instructor, who is highly trained, needs to be paid. Somehow yacht club members think that instruction should be free and included in their membership fee. Well, instruction is actually a lot of work for the instructors. Typically adult programs are in the evening, and the instructors are beat from instructing the juniors during the day.

 

In summary, if you want to learn how to sail a 420, go buy your own, or form a syndicate and buy one for several people, then hire an instructor to teach you. BTW, don't forget to donate it to your club junior program when you are done with it.

 

dash

You are exactly the type of guy in a yacht club that is the problem.

 

Instructors are beat after a long day? So what? You think he/she isn't pulling all nighters in college. Or find another instructor. I'll bet there are members who are better sailors, who can also relate better to older members than can your hot shot instructor.

 

Your boats are too precious. Seriously? It's a 420.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Having put my son through our club's junior program, to the extent that he won gold in our provincial summer games in 420 and is now the head instructor at the club here are my thoughts on this:

 

1) the adults that want to use the club's junior sailing program boats have no idea of the amount of maintenance which goes into them. They see these nice boats on the dock and want to use them. Well, the problem is that if they break something they want to just walk away - "someone else must be responsible for fixing them". Then the next day the juniors want to use them, one boat is out of commission because nobody fixed it. Very annoying.

 

2) we run adult learn-to-sail programs - and you have to pay for them because the instructor, who is highly trained, needs to be paid. Somehow yacht club members think that instruction should be free and included in their membership fee. Well, instruction is actually a lot of work for the instructors. Typically adult programs are in the evening, and the instructors are beat from instructing the juniors during the day.

 

In summary, if you want to learn how to sail a 420, go buy your own, or form a syndicate and buy one for several people, then hire an instructor to teach you. BTW, don't forget to donate it to your club junior program when you are done with it.

 

dash

 

 

Dash you are a douche!

 

With a Sailing Club/Yacht Club any club owned boats or assets are there for the enjoyment of the members actually paying the tab. Never run the place for the help. Never forget the clubs basic mission. If club boat maintenance is a struggle? Drain the pool and let the lifeguards go until you get the member boat services up to snuff.

 

STFU, show us your wife's saggy tits, otherwise eat your cheap chicken in silence.

 

No boats, no sailors, no future.

 

Here we learn about Son of Douche: "won gold in our provincial summer games in 420 and is now the head instructor at the club here"

 

 

Is this "club" called Caddyshack, Bushwood, or Smails Yacht Club by chance? Let's just call the spawn Spalding or Porsche Puker .

 

and NO we will not "form and syndicate" to pay to get your wife's saggy tits fixed. Things could be different if she was a declared club owned asset?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Having put my son through our club's junior program, to the extent that he won gold in our provincial summer games in 420 and is now the head instructor at the club here are my thoughts on this:

 

1) the adults that want to use the club's junior sailing program boats have no idea of the amount of maintenance which goes into them. They see these nice boats on the dock and want to use them. Well, the problem is that if they break something they want to just walk away - "someone else must be responsible for fixing them". Then the next day the juniors want to use them, one boat is out of commission because nobody fixed it. Very annoying.

 

2) we run adult learn-to-sail programs - and you have to pay for them because the instructor, who is highly trained, needs to be paid. Somehow yacht club members think that instruction should be free and included in their membership fee. Well, instruction is actually a lot of work for the instructors. Typically adult programs are in the evening, and the instructors are beat from instructing the juniors during the day.

 

In summary, if you want to learn how to sail a 420, go buy your own, or form a syndicate and buy one for several people, then hire an instructor to teach you. BTW, don't forget to donate it to your club junior program when you are done with it.

 

dash

 

i didn't know canada had yacht clubs!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Do not include parents or adults in sailing programs. you don't want them on your yacht club's premises, other than dropping of or picking up the kids. If they actually want to stay longer, they might meet with other parents and start demanding stuff like coffee or drinks, or god forbid, a sandwich which means as a club, you need to build a bar and maybe even a kitchen. And this is just the beginning, i can go on all day on how you don;t want adults at the sailing club.

 

There is only one future and that's the youth. so focus solely on them. Forget about adults or other people participating. Let's get an age restriction in place, which excludes people over 18 from being able to take sailing lessons and be welcome at the club. everyone over 18 should only be there to pick up or drop of someone under 18! oh and pay their membership fee, and pay to keep the boat in good condition, and pay for mooring/storage of the boat. they are not welcome at the club or clubhouse.

 

rant over.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Having put my son through our club's junior program, to the extent that he won gold in our provincial summer games in 420 and is now the head instructor at the club here are my thoughts on this:

 

1) the adults that want to use the club's junior sailing program boats have no idea of the amount of maintenance which goes into them. They see these nice boats on the dock and want to use them. Well, the problem is that if they break something they want to just walk away - "someone else must be responsible for fixing them". Then the next day the juniors want to use them, one boat is out of commission because nobody fixed it. Very annoying.

 

2) we run adult learn-to-sail programs - and you have to pay for them because the instructor, who is highly trained, needs to be paid. Somehow yacht club members think that instruction should be free and included in their membership fee. Well, instruction is actually a lot of work for the instructors. Typically adult programs are in the evening, and the instructors are beat from instructing the juniors during the day.

 

In summary, if you want to learn how to sail a 420, go buy your own, or form a syndicate and buy one for several people, then hire an instructor to teach you. BTW, don't forget to donate it to your club junior program when you are done with it.

 

dash

 

Well, that's one way of running things......

 

 

We have an active Club, with active sailing members. It is not possible to join the Club without demonstrating that you are an active sailor over an extended period.

There are privately owned yachts that cruise and race

There are privately owned dinghies (from Optis to 18ft Skiffs) that sail and race

There is an over-subscribed youth programme that uses Club and privately owned boats, run by the in-house RYA accredited Sailing School instructors

There is an RYA accredited Sailing school, that runs a FULL range of learn-to-sail lessons, from 6 to 80+ year old, using Club boats. You can join a group, or pay more and have one-on-one.

The fleet of school boats are open to all members to hire (including to race), subject to holding a relevant qualification (RYA Stage 3 for kids, and RYA Level 2 for adults - no exceptions)

 

The Club does have bullet-proof 'school sails' and separate 'racing sails' for many of the boats, which helps to keep things shiny and fast.

 

The sailing school is open to non-members, but they pay more, and have a wait list, and Members take priority.

The fees for Members for all of the above are ridiculously cheap.

 

We're lucky, it all works very well, and it is doable.

It takes good management, and an active membership.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Gee Dash…..I guess you and your gold medal winner instructor son have been told!! Sailing clubs should be about sailing for everyone, not preserving their precious boats. My experience is if adults are involved in sailing club boats, they will often volunteer to help maintain them, and involve themselves in much more. Lighten up on your aren't we great attitude, and be part of the solution to get all people out sailing…….you might enjoy it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It may have been said but it could just be a case of the insurance policy/liability. Our group has Optis, 420s, Lasers, Rhodes 19s, J22s, and Elliott 6ms. The adults can sign up to use the last three or four boats but we don't make the 420s or Optis available except in the Jr. Program use. Why? We'd have to increase our already expensive insurance policy by a huge amount and we don't have the bandwidth yet to run a safety boat all weekend. 420s can flip and as a result we'd want to have a safety boat around when they're in use. So the safest thing we can do is to reserve them for Jr use for now until we can afford to have one or two people on staff through the weekend as well.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Having put my son through our club's junior program, to the extent that he won gold in our provincial summer games in 420 and is now the head instructor at the club here are my thoughts on this:

 

1) the adults that want to use the club's junior sailing program boats have no idea of the amount of maintenance which goes into them. They see these nice boats on the dock and want to use them. Well, the problem is that if they break something they want to just walk away - "someone else must be responsible for fixing them". Then the next day the juniors want to use them, one boat is out of commission because nobody fixed it. Very annoying.

 

2) we run adult learn-to-sail programs - and you have to pay for them because the instructor, who is highly trained, needs to be paid. Somehow yacht club members think that instruction should be free and included in their membership fee. Well, instruction is actually a lot of work for the instructors. Typically adult programs are in the evening, and the instructors are beat from instructing the juniors during the day.

 

In summary, if you want to learn how to sail a 420, go buy your own, or form a syndicate and buy one for several people, then hire an instructor to teach you. BTW, don't forget to donate it to your club junior program when you are done with it.

 

dash

Whoaaaa a gold medal in the provincial intergalactics!

 

So, what I think is really amazing is that somewhere out there, there exists a yacht club where the kids take perfect care of the club boats and never leave a broken thing behind, but the adults just bust up all the shit and slink away shrugging. It's like the mirror version of the rest of the universe.

And man, I bet those poor instructors are just BUSHED after a whole 6 hours of blowing a whistle and sitting on a boat. Sounds exhausting. Those of us working real jobs for 65 to 100 hours a week (yes that happens) just can't imagine how they keep it together! Where do they find the energy to polish their gold medals after work?

 

In any case, my club handles boat damage as follows: if you broke something, when signing the boat back into the log, you make a note of it. Almost all of us also send an email to the committee chair for the relevant program. A volunteer comes down and fixes it within a day or so. The program budgets account for the fact that replacement parts will need to be purchased throughout the season, and the member volunteers do a great job.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Our club has a fleet of Sonars we use for:

1. Open team racing - mentored by an Olympic Coach

2. Women's sailing program - women only! and run by women, for women

3. Rental to members

4. Available to enter in club races

 

Only bad thing is they are not in the closest spots to the lift, but we have 3 lifts now.

 

Teach a woman to sail today, and the whole family sails tomorrow...grinning and ducking

Link to post
Share on other sites

Having put my son through our club's junior program, to the extent that he won gold in our provincial summer games in 420 and is now the head instructor at the club here are my thoughts on this:

 

1) the adults that want to use the club's junior sailing program boats have no idea of the amount of maintenance which goes into them. They see these nice boats on the dock and want to use them. Well, the problem is that if they break something they want to just walk away - "someone else must be responsible for fixing them". Then the next day the juniors want to use them, one boat is out of commission because nobody fixed it. Very annoying.

 

2) we run adult learn-to-sail programs - and you have to pay for them because the instructor, who is highly trained, needs to be paid. Somehow yacht club members think that instruction should be free and included in their membership fee. Well, instruction is actually a lot of work for the instructors. Typically adult programs are in the evening, and the instructors are beat from instructing the juniors during the day.

 

In summary, if you want to learn how to sail a 420, go buy your own, or form a syndicate and buy one for several people, then hire an instructor to teach you. BTW, don't forget to donate it to your club junior program when you are done with it.

 

dash

 

 

Here you go Dash may this will help you and your gold medal spawn see the light and correct the flaws in the club member owned boat program along with misguided father-daughter junior nanny services..... can't wait to see the participation trophies.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Waikiki Yacht Club not only has Adult Lessons but also a Fleet of 10 Wet Moored Cal 20s that can be rented. One night a week, they have races for that fleet. At Kaneohe, we have adult lessons by Appointment and occasionally an organized class. We also have 3 Club owned Cal 20s that are Dry Moored. We hope to expand our Adult Programs. If you have limited Mooring and a wait list like we do, it's a great way to get Members in Boats and alleviate pressure on the Wait Lists. If you don't like what you have, get on the Board of Directors and change it!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Right, hands up anyone who has volunteered to maintain the club's boats. Wait, no one? No surprise here. Please note that my hand is up. To get my kid to his competition I had to buy a set of sails and completely resurrect a beat-to-shit club-owned 420 into a competitive boat in my carport. So, I have a really good idea what goes into maintaining these boats. There were no adults volunteering to repair that boat on behalf of the junior program he was part of. None.

 

I have gone down to the club at a moments notice and repaired a 420 with a hole punched in the bottom after the mast got stuck in the mud. I started maintaining club boats because I wanted to sail with my son, and every time we went down to the club to sail we'd have to spend an hour or so repairing the boats before we could sail them. Not a good situation.

 

Biggest problem is on-going maintenance IMHO. I think maybe the dissenting opinions above are from members of clubs which have a lot more money than my club and can afford to pay people to maintain their boats, or are fortunate enough to have great volunteers. If your club is like that, great, go for it. It looks like some of the programs mentioned above have different boats for the adults and juniors. That makes sense to me - if the adults break the boats they can't use them unless they fix them, but in the meantime the juniors aren't affected.

 

I'm all for having adult sailing programs, just keep in mind that the work has to get done by someone. What I object to is the people who see the shiny boats on the dock and want to sail them without "paying their dues" to the junior program as well. I'm not saying don't do it, just make sure there is something in place to get the maintenance done afterward.

 

I don't know any clubs that have so many volunteers they don't know what to do with them. Maybe your club is different. If there is a shortage of volunteer time available, I think that time should be dedicated to the kids.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Playing devil's advocate here. Common reasons for keeping the race fleet unavailable except during races:

 

Keeps all the boats and sails with the same level of wear

Minimizes breakages (which lead to boats being taken out of the fleet and also getting fixed with equipment which is of a different level of wear/weight than the other boats)

Keeps learners on boats which are cheap to fix and don't require crash boats to recover

 

As for not allowing adults to race with the junior racers, this keeps competition more even (weight + experience)

 

The I420 as a class is the youth development class in most sailing countries, and the ISAF youth world championship class. If, for example, the youth development program at your club purchased the boats out of their budget, the argument could be made that they should be reserved for the youth program

 

I don't think all these apply in your case, I'm just suggesting some reasons. At our club (also east coast) 420s were youth only, lasers were racing only, small keelboats were racing + social + teaching, and j22s were racing + proficient sailors.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Playing devil's advocate here. Common reasons for keeping the race fleet unavailable except during races:

 

Keeps all the boats and sails with the same level of wear

Minimizes breakages (which lead to boats being taken out of the fleet and also getting fixed with equipment which is of a different level of wear/weight than the other boats)

Keeps learners on boats which are cheap to fix and don't require crash boats to recover

 

As for not allowing adults to race with the junior racers, this keeps competition more even (weight + experience)

 

The I420 as a class is the youth development class in most sailing countries, and the ISAF youth world championship class. If, for example, the youth development program at your club purchased the boats out of their budget, the argument could be made that they should be reserved for the youth program

 

I don't think all these apply in your case, I'm just suggesting some reasons. At our club (also east coast) 420s were youth only, lasers were racing only, small keelboats were racing + social + teaching, and j22s were racing + proficient sailors.

All these are good examples of why the OP's suggestion to get their own boat was a good one.

 

The OP also asked whether it was common practice to reserve the junior program dinghys for juniors. The answer is - yes it is.

 

At my club we had a small keelboat that anyone could take out and sail if they wanted to. Seemed like a great idea at the time. What killed it is that no-one wanted to maintain it so after a while it looked pretty ratty. It rotted at the dock for a while and then the club got rid of it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

We have adult sailing classes three times a week. We pay a local adult a reasonable fee and he conducts the lessons. We also charge the adults a reasonable fee that covers the class plus their share of maintenance expenses. Everyone is happy. Formalizing the maintenance program is critical.

We also run junior program with a 8 club owned 420s, a few lasers and 20+ optis. We have learner boats and race boats.

Link to post
Share on other sites

my metro NYC club has acquired over many years 10 daysailers that are used precisely for social members and wives to learn and love sailing. At first, we 'real sailors' grumbled about the lame ass boats taking up scarce moorings. But now 15 years or so years later, these boats are used 5-7 days a week and even the most grumpy of us are big supporters.

 

Every day is geared to a different demographic, Ladies learn to sail night, family sail night, ladies Intro racing, advanced racing, fun sail for noobs, etc etc. The price for season is dirt cheap around $200, so easy to join. Note - most days are geared for moms and wives and the boats are booked solid all season.

 

people naturally migrate after a few seasons from the club training boats to full fledged sailing.

 

it's a hugly successful feeder program.

 

any club that ignores the ladies is doomed

Link to post
Share on other sites

Right, hands up anyone who has volunteered to maintain the club's boats. Wait, no one? No surprise here. Please note that my hand is up. To get my kid to his competition I had to buy a set of sails and completely resurrect a beat-to-shit club-owned 420 into a competitive boat in my carport. So, I have a really good idea what goes into maintaining these boats. There were no adults volunteering to repair that boat on behalf of the junior program he was part of. None.

 

I have gone down to the club at a moments notice and repaired a 420 with a hole punched in the bottom after the mast got stuck in the mud. I started maintaining club boats because I wanted to sail with my son, and every time we went down to the club to sail we'd have to spend an hour or so repairing the boats before we could sail them. Not a good situation.

 

Biggest problem is on-going maintenance IMHO. I think maybe the dissenting opinions above are from members of clubs which have a lot more money than my club and can afford to pay people to maintain their boats, or are fortunate enough to have great volunteers. If your club is like that, great, go for it. It looks like some of the programs mentioned above have different boats for the adults and juniors. That makes sense to me - if the adults break the boats they can't use them unless they fix them, but in the meantime the juniors aren't affected.

 

I'm all for having adult sailing programs, just keep in mind that the work has to get done by someone. What I object to is the people who see the shiny boats on the dock and want to sail them without "paying their dues" to the junior program as well. I'm not saying don't do it, just make sure there is something in place to get the maintenance done afterward.

 

I don't know any clubs that have so many volunteers they don't know what to do with them. Maybe your club is different. If there is a shortage of volunteer time available, I think that time should be dedicated to the kids.

 

 

You need to get off of your high horse. I'm not holding up my hand because, unlike you, I don't think volunteering at my club is worthy of praise. I chair Junior Sailing and am a past chair of Adult Sailing. The rule is simple: if any newbie wants to sail anything, ever, you make it happen, whether it's putting them in a boat with a seasoned skipper for race day or helping them rig one of the club's catboats and taking them out for an hour to show them the basics. If a boat gets damaged, fix it. You can get your son's gold medal re-engraved later with "Top Volunteer" and wear it around your club so everyone knows what a winner you are.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Right, hands up anyone who has volunteered to maintain the club's boats. Wait, no one? No surprise here. Please note that my hand is up. To get my kid to his competition I had to buy a set of sails and completely resurrect a beat-to-shit club-owned 420 into a competitive boat in my carport. So, I have a really good idea what goes into maintaining these boats. There were no adults volunteering to repair that boat on behalf of the junior program he was part of. None.

 

I have gone down to the club at a moments notice and repaired a 420 with a hole punched in the bottom after the mast got stuck in the mud. I started maintaining club boats because I wanted to sail with my son, and every time we went down to the club to sail we'd have to spend an hour or so repairing the boats before we could sail them. Not a good situation.

 

Biggest problem is on-going maintenance IMHO. I think maybe the dissenting opinions above are from members of clubs which have a lot more money than my club and can afford to pay people to maintain their boats, or are fortunate enough to have great volunteers. If your club is like that, great, go for it. It looks like some of the programs mentioned above have different boats for the adults and juniors. That makes sense to me - if the adults break the boats they can't use them unless they fix them, but in the meantime the juniors aren't affected.

 

I'm all for having adult sailing programs, just keep in mind that the work has to get done by someone. What I object to is the people who see the shiny boats on the dock and want to sail them without "paying their dues" to the junior program as well. I'm not saying don't do it, just make sure there is something in place to get the maintenance done afterward.

 

I don't know any clubs that have so many volunteers they don't know what to do with them. Maybe your club is different. If there is a shortage of volunteer time available, I think that time should be dedicated to the kids.

 

You need to get off of your high horse. I'm not holding up my hand because, unlike you, I don't think volunteering at my club is worthy of praise. I chair Junior Sailing and am a past chair of Adult Sailing. The rule is simple: if any newbie wants to sail anything, ever, you make it happen, whether it's putting them in a boat with a seasoned skipper for race day or helping them rig one of the club's catboats and taking them out for an hour to show them the basics. If a boat gets damaged, fix it. You can get your son's gold medal re-engraved later with "Top Volunteer" and wear it around your club so everyone knows what a winner you are.

This. I've done it. My club has several committees of adult sailors, waterfront builders and junior sailing parents all of whom volunteer to the fix the boats. Our Ideals get in the water every year fully prepped by member volunteers. Per my post above, a simple entry in the log and an email to the committee chair will have a volunteer down there within a day to fix anything the member can't do him- or herself.

We haven't given the member volunteers any gold medals yet....

 

But we are lucky to have them!

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Right, hands up anyone who has volunteered to maintain the club's boats. Wait, no one? No surprise here. Please note that my hand is up. To get my kid to his competition I had to buy a set of sails and completely resurrect a beat-to-shit club-owned 420 into a competitive boat in my carport. So, I have a really good idea what goes into maintaining these boats. There were no adults volunteering to repair that boat on behalf of the junior program he was part of. None.

 

I have gone down to the club at a moments notice and repaired a 420 with a hole punched in the bottom after the mast got stuck in the mud. I started maintaining club boats because I wanted to sail with my son, and every time we went down to the club to sail we'd have to spend an hour or so repairing the boats before we could sail them. Not a good situation.

 

Biggest problem is on-going maintenance IMHO. I think maybe the dissenting opinions above are from members of clubs which have a lot more money than my club and can afford to pay people to maintain their boats, or are fortunate enough to have great volunteers. If your club is like that, great, go for it. It looks like some of the programs mentioned above have different boats for the adults and juniors. That makes sense to me - if the adults break the boats they can't use them unless they fix them, but in the meantime the juniors aren't affected.

 

I'm all for having adult sailing programs, just keep in mind that the work has to get done by someone. What I object to is the people who see the shiny boats on the dock and want to sail them without "paying their dues" to the junior program as well. I'm not saying don't do it, just make sure there is something in place to get the maintenance done afterward.

 

I don't know any clubs that have so many volunteers they don't know what to do with them. Maybe your club is different. If there is a shortage of volunteer time available, I think that time should be dedicated to the kids.

 

 

You need to get off of your high horse. I'm not holding up my hand because, unlike you, I don't think volunteering at my club is worthy of praise. I chair Junior Sailing and am a past chair of Adult Sailing. The rule is simple: if any newbie wants to sail anything, ever, you make it happen, whether it's putting them in a boat with a seasoned skipper for race day or helping them rig one of the club's catboats and taking them out for an hour to show them the basics. If a boat gets damaged, fix it. You can get your son's gold medal re-engraved later with "Top Volunteer" and wear it around your club so everyone knows what a winner you are.

 

 

 

+1 Ease Hike Trim.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Having put my son through our club's junior program, to the extent that he won gold in our provincial summer games in 420 and is now the head instructor at the club here are my thoughts on this:

 

1) the adults that want to use the club's junior sailing program boats have no idea of the amount of maintenance which goes into them. They see these nice boats on the dock and want to use them. Well, the problem is that if they break something they want to just walk away - "someone else must be responsible for fixing them". Then the next day the juniors want to use them, one boat is out of commission because nobody fixed it. Very annoying.

 

2) we run adult learn-to-sail programs - and you have to pay for them because the instructor, who is highly trained, needs to be paid. Somehow yacht club members think that instruction should be free and included in their membership fee. Well, instruction is actually a lot of work for the instructors. Typically adult programs are in the evening, and the instructors are beat from instructing the juniors during the day.

 

In summary, if you want to learn how to sail a 420, go buy your own, or form a syndicate and buy one for several people, then hire an instructor to teach you. BTW, don't forget to donate it to your club junior program when you are done with it.

 

dash

You are exactly the type of guy in a yacht club that is the problem.

 

Instructors are beat after a long day? So what? You think he/she isn't pulling all nighters in college. Or find another instructor. I'll bet there are members who are better sailors, who can also relate better to older members than can your hot shot instructor.

 

Your boats are too precious. Seriously? It's a 420.

 

hahaha you've obviously never worked in a junior sailing program before. your comments are a joke and absolutely unfounded.

 

yacht clubs need to have separate programs for the exact reasons you list.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As previously mentioned, my wife had previously learned to sail a Sunfish and is doing very well on the windsurfer. Her desire to learn the Laser came simply from wanting to try a different boat and expand her sailing experience – not because she saw something “shiny and new”. Besides, the club’s boats are left out in the elements a good part of the year and are frequently filled with sand and rain water. If the Junior sailors purchase the sailboats from their own fundraiser, I can understand the exclusivity. But if funds comes from general membership dues – the club that refused access charges us $1500 a year plus a hefty initiation fee – that seems grossly unfair. Regardless, we were quite willing to pay a rental and lesson fee but that was not an available option. It’s a sailing club! If they can't be a source to learn sailing, than where? The more I ruminate about this, the more I keep thinking about the Monty Python Cheese Shop skit where John Cleese, after making numerous requests to purchase varying kinds of cheese, discovers that there is no cheese being sold at this “cheese” shop.

 

The Northeast River Yacht Club, which we recently joined since its closer and seemed eager for new members, explained to my wife that she could take out one of the Laser’s after proving she could appropriately sail it. So last Thursday evening, with the distant hint of a darkening sky, sailed it out of their somewhat tight floating dock for a paid lesson with one of their instructors. She returned to the house several hours later soaking in her rash guard, stating she had the best time – the approaching storm kicked up whitecaps and she was “flying” along in her dinghy. She flipped and righted four times. A lot of the Junior sailors on the water gave her thumbs up. As the sky grew darker and the other sailors headed in, the instructor said it was time to get off the water. He said she was the best beginner Laser sailor he ever taught and otherwise he would not have her stay on the water so long. She was truly stoked on the whole experience and now has permission to sail their Laser as well as several other club boats.

 

This past weekend friends on the beach invited her to try their Hobie Wave which she really liked and is looking to purchase. While she’s resourceful and won’t let the discouraging attitudes such as those of our primary club or Dash43 dissuade her from her interest in sailing I can see how other adults who are simply curious about sailing would be put off for good. Providing an enthusiastic welcome would go a long way to growing the sport of sailing but perhaps in some places that's just not the goal.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why don't you ask the club for their exact reasons why the boats are reserved for just junior sailing instead of complaining about it anonymously on a website? a few reasons may be that the boats are paid for exclusively with junior program registration funds, Insurance and liability, the club wants to promote boat ownership instead of being a community sailing center, there could be a youth racing circuit the boats are being used in every weekend and they need to function correctly, etc. There is a myriad of good and bad reasons.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Right, hands up anyone who has volunteered to maintain the club's boats. Wait, no one? No surprise here. Please note that my hand is up. To get my kid to his competition I had to buy a set of sails and completely resurrect a beat-to-shit club-owned 420 into a competitive boat in my carport. So, I have a really good idea what goes into maintaining these boats. There were no adults volunteering to repair that boat on behalf of the junior program he was part of. None.

 

I have gone down to the club at a moments notice and repaired a 420 with a hole punched in the bottom after the mast got stuck in the mud. I started maintaining club boats because I wanted to sail with my son, and every time we went down to the club to sail we'd have to spend an hour or so repairing the boats before we could sail them. Not a good situation.

 

Biggest problem is on-going maintenance IMHO. I think maybe the dissenting opinions above are from members of clubs which have a lot more money than my club and can afford to pay people to maintain their boats, or are fortunate enough to have great volunteers. If your club is like that, great, go for it. It looks like some of the programs mentioned above have different boats for the adults and juniors. That makes sense to me - if the adults break the boats they can't use them unless they fix them, but in the meantime the juniors aren't affected.

 

I'm all for having adult sailing programs, just keep in mind that the work has to get done by someone. What I object to is the people who see the shiny boats on the dock and want to sail them without "paying their dues" to the junior program as well. I'm not saying don't do it, just make sure there is something in place to get the maintenance done afterward.

 

I don't know any clubs that have so many volunteers they don't know what to do with them. Maybe your club is different. If there is a shortage of volunteer time available, I think that time should be dedicated to the kids.

 

 

You need to get off of your high horse. I'm not holding up my hand because, unlike you, I don't think volunteering at my club is worthy of praise. I chair Junior Sailing and am a past chair of Adult Sailing. The rule is simple: if any newbie wants to sail anything, ever, you make it happen, whether it's putting them in a boat with a seasoned skipper for race day or helping them rig one of the club's catboats and taking them out for an hour to show them the basics. If a boat gets damaged, fix it. You can get your son's gold medal re-engraved later with "Top Volunteer" and wear it around your club so everyone knows what a winner you are.

 

 

I chaired our club's Junior sailing too. Dash has some valid points.

 

In our case, the Jr. Sailing program was a separate legal entity - a 501 ( c ) 3 not for profit like the club was not, so we could take deductible donations. The only direct support the club provided was space and insurance coverage - we were on their blanket somehow. We raised funds to build out the new sailing center, though it's rent-free on club property. We got NO direct cash from the club, though obviously the membership was our largest fundraising pool. All boats are paid for and maintained through funds either from tuitions, or from donations that we had to raise. Technically we served a public purpose since we educated kids from anywhere, not just member kids, and we also had a scholarship program and put a couple of kids through that couldn't have otherwise afforded it every year.

 

If a boat got taken out of commission, we might have paying students the next day that couldn't sail. That's a problem, since that's why the boats were there in the first place. At the time I was running it we didn't have boats for regattas, only for training. Students provide their own boats, so "all those nice boats" were actually privately owned.

 

"It's ONLY a 420?" Well good, whoever said that, why don't you pony up for a few then? They ain't free, even a used one costs thousands. Someone has to buy them, and someone has to fix them. There are very few replacement parts that are free. And work parties to fix them up? Some things like that happened...but not enough to count on. Not mid-season, when things break on the fly and you need them fixed quickly.

 

Our compensation with the Instructors for the Junior sailors covered...Junior Sailing during the day. Surprise. They were neither indentured servants nor property; we could not legally force them to stay later to teach adults for free. We could, however offer them more money. And...where would that money come from? See above...tuitions, fundraising. We didn't get ANY cash from the club, so those "Free" adult lessons would have to come from our budget. Or we could charge for the lessons.

 

Safety, liability, coach boats - you need a coach/instructor either on the water or in the boat. Gas doesn't grow on trees (though the Club did give us the "member discount" at the fuel dock).

 

THAT BEING SAID...

 

Back when I was running things we knew there was a demand for adult sailing lessons. So we planned, long term, to develop both boats and staff to have a model for it. My vision (and I don't know how close they've come to it) is that adult lessons and boat rentals could be self funding - anything more than break even would be a bonus. Years later, they have adult lessons now as well as a small fleet of J/22's for instruction and that can be chartered.

 

But the idea of an adult of unknown skill level walking up and borrowing a boat to "learn" on it? Uh-uh. Not one of the program boats. YOU try raising $25,000 to pay for that fleet. I've got kids coming tomorrow that have already paid their tuition for the summer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Right, hands up anyone who has volunteered to maintain the club's boats. Wait, no one? No surprise here. Please note that my hand is up. To get my kid to his competition I had to buy a set of sails and completely resurrect a beat-to-shit club-owned 420 into a competitive boat in my carport. So, I have a really good idea what goes into maintaining these boats. There were no adults volunteering to repair that boat on behalf of the junior program he was part of. None.

 

I have gone down to the club at a moments notice and repaired a 420 with a hole punched in the bottom after the mast got stuck in the mud. I started maintaining club boats because I wanted to sail with my son, and every time we went down to the club to sail we'd have to spend an hour or so repairing the boats before we could sail them. Not a good situation.

 

Biggest problem is on-going maintenance IMHO. I think maybe the dissenting opinions above are from members of clubs which have a lot more money than my club and can afford to pay people to maintain their boats, or are fortunate enough to have great volunteers. If your club is like that, great, go for it. It looks like some of the programs mentioned above have different boats for the adults and juniors. That makes sense to me - if the adults break the boats they can't use them unless they fix them, but in the meantime the juniors aren't affected.

 

I'm all for having adult sailing programs, just keep in mind that the work has to get done by someone. What I object to is the people who see the shiny boats on the dock and want to sail them without "paying their dues" to the junior program as well. I'm not saying don't do it, just make sure there is something in place to get the maintenance done afterward.

 

I don't know any clubs that have so many volunteers they don't know what to do with them. Maybe your club is different. If there is a shortage of volunteer time available, I think that time should be dedicated to the kids.

 

 

You need to get off of your high horse. I'm not holding up my hand because, unlike you, I don't think volunteering at my club is worthy of praise. I chair Junior Sailing and am a past chair of Adult Sailing. The rule is simple: if any newbie wants to sail anything, ever, you make it happen, whether it's putting them in a boat with a seasoned skipper for race day or helping them rig one of the club's catboats and taking them out for an hour to show them the basics. If a boat gets damaged, fix it. You can get your son's gold medal re-engraved later with "Top Volunteer" and wear it around your club so everyone knows what a winner you are.

 

 

I chaired our club's Junior sailing too. Dash has some valid points.

 

In our case, the Jr. Sailing program was a separate legal entity - a 501 ( c ) 3 not for profit like the club was not, so we could take deductible donations. The only direct support the club provided was space and insurance coverage - we were on their blanket somehow. We raised funds to build out the new sailing center, though it's rent-free on club property. We got NO direct cash from the club, though obviously the membership was our largest fundraising pool. All boats are paid for and maintained through funds either from tuitions, or from donations that we had to raise. Technically we served a public purpose since we educated kids from anywhere, not just member kids, and we also had a scholarship program and put a couple of kids through that couldn't have otherwise afforded it every year.

 

If a boat got taken out of commission, we might have paying students the next day that couldn't sail. That's a problem, since that's why the boats were there in the first place. At the time I was running it we didn't have boats for regattas, only for training. Students provide their own boats, so "all those nice boats" were actually privately owned.

 

"It's ONLY a 420?" Well good, whoever said that, why don't you pony up for a few then? They ain't free, even a used one costs thousands. Someone has to buy them, and someone has to fix them. There are very few replacement parts that are free. And work parties to fix them up? Some things like that happened...but not enough to count on. Not mid-season, when things break on the fly and you need them fixed quickly.

 

Our compensation with the Instructors for the Junior sailors covered...Junior Sailing during the day. Surprise. They were neither indentured servants nor property; we could not legally force them to stay later to teach adults for free. We could, however offer them more money. And...where would that money come from? See above...tuitions, fundraising. We didn't get ANY cash from the club, so those "Free" adult lessons would have to come from our budget. Or we could charge for the lessons.

 

Safety, liability, coach boats - you need a coach/instructor either on the water or in the boat. Gas doesn't grow on trees (though the Club did give us the "member discount" at the fuel dock).

 

THAT BEING SAID...

 

Back when I was running things we knew there was a demand for adult sailing lessons. So we planned, long term, to develop both boats and staff to have a model for it. My vision (and I don't know how close they've come to it) is that adult lessons and boat rentals could be self funding - anything more than break even would be a bonus. Years later, they have adult lessons now as well as a small fleet of J/22's for instruction and that can be chartered.

 

But the idea of an adult of unknown skill level walking up and borrowing a boat to "learn" on it? Uh-uh. Not one of the program boats. YOU try raising $25,000 to pay for that fleet. I've got kids coming tomorrow that have already paid their tuition for the summer.

 

This.....

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, unbelievably there are yacht clubs in Canada, although they are only open for the two weeks per year where it is light 24 hours per day and the igloos melt.

 

Our club which is just outside of Toronto came up with the idea of a 420 race night that anyone could charter a boat and enter. Great idea to engage the Xbox generation and their parents in something other than well Xbox! The idea is not moving forward as it appears most old people would rather sit on their 5khsb, (5 knot hunter sbox) rather than racing with their kids on something that doesn't make you want to fall asleep.

 

Using a 420 fleet that is otherwise sitting idle makes sense, offering a way to engage multiple generations in the fun kind of sailing makes sense, letting people learn on a real sailboat before they buy the 5khsb that motors better than it sails also makes so much sense. Sadly it seems hard to find enough like minded people to make it work...

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Right, hands up anyone who has volunteered to maintain the club's boats. Wait, no one? No surprise here. Please note that my hand is up. To get my kid to his competition I had to buy a set of sails and completely resurrect a beat-to-shit club-owned 420 into a competitive boat in my carport. So, I have a really good idea what goes into maintaining these boats. There were no adults volunteering to repair that boat on behalf of the junior program he was part of. None.

 

I have gone down to the club at a moments notice and repaired a 420 with a hole punched in the bottom after the mast got stuck in the mud. I started maintaining club boats because I wanted to sail with my son, and every time we went down to the club to sail we'd have to spend an hour or so repairing the boats before we could sail them. Not a good situation.

 

Biggest problem is on-going maintenance IMHO. I think maybe the dissenting opinions above are from members of clubs which have a lot more money than my club and can afford to pay people to maintain their boats, or are fortunate enough to have great volunteers. If your club is like that, great, go for it. It looks like some of the programs mentioned above have different boats for the adults and juniors. That makes sense to me - if the adults break the boats they can't use them unless they fix them, but in the meantime the juniors aren't affected.

 

I'm all for having adult sailing programs, just keep in mind that the work has to get done by someone. What I object to is the people who see the shiny boats on the dock and want to sail them without "paying their dues" to the junior program as well. I'm not saying don't do it, just make sure there is something in place to get the maintenance done afterward.

 

I don't know any clubs that have so many volunteers they don't know what to do with them. Maybe your club is different. If there is a shortage of volunteer time available, I think that time should be dedicated to the kids.

 

 

You need to get off of your high horse. I'm not holding up my hand because, unlike you, I don't think volunteering at my club is worthy of praise. I chair Junior Sailing and am a past chair of Adult Sailing. The rule is simple: if any newbie wants to sail anything, ever, you make it happen, whether it's putting them in a boat with a seasoned skipper for race day or helping them rig one of the club's catboats and taking them out for an hour to show them the basics. If a boat gets damaged, fix it. You can get your son's gold medal re-engraved later with "Top Volunteer" and wear it around your club so everyone knows what a winner you are.

 

 

I chaired our club's Junior sailing too. Dash has some valid points.

 

In our case, the Jr. Sailing program was a separate legal entity - a 501 ( c ) 3 not for profit like the club was not, so we could take deductible donations. The only direct support the club provided was space and insurance coverage - we were on their blanket somehow. We raised funds to build out the new sailing center, though it's rent-free on club property. We got NO direct cash from the club, though obviously the membership was our largest fundraising pool. All boats are paid for and maintained through funds either from tuitions, or from donations that we had to raise. Technically we served a public purpose since we educated kids from anywhere, not just member kids, and we also had a scholarship program and put a couple of kids through that couldn't have otherwise afforded it every year.

 

If a boat got taken out of commission, we might have paying students the next day that couldn't sail. That's a problem, since that's why the boats were there in the first place. At the time I was running it we didn't have boats for regattas, only for training. Students provide their own boats, so "all those nice boats" were actually privately owned.

 

"It's ONLY a 420?" Well good, whoever said that, why don't you pony up for a few then? They ain't free, even a used one costs thousands. Someone has to buy them, and someone has to fix them. There are very few replacement parts that are free. And work parties to fix them up? Some things like that happened...but not enough to count on. Not mid-season, when things break on the fly and you need them fixed quickly.

 

Our compensation with the Instructors for the Junior sailors covered...Junior Sailing during the day. Surprise. They were neither indentured servants nor property; we could not legally force them to stay later to teach adults for free. We could, however offer them more money. And...where would that money come from? See above...tuitions, fundraising. We didn't get ANY cash from the club, so those "Free" adult lessons would have to come from our budget. Or we could charge for the lessons.

 

Safety, liability, coach boats - you need a coach/instructor either on the water or in the boat. Gas doesn't grow on trees (though the Club did give us the "member discount" at the fuel dock).

 

THAT BEING SAID...

 

Back when I was running things we knew there was a demand for adult sailing lessons. So we planned, long term, to develop both boats and staff to have a model for it. My vision (and I don't know how close they've come to it) is that adult lessons and boat rentals could be self funding - anything more than break even would be a bonus. Years later, they have adult lessons now as well as a small fleet of J/22's for instruction and that can be chartered.

 

But the idea of an adult of unknown skill level walking up and borrowing a boat to "learn" on it? Uh-uh. Not one of the program boats. YOU try raising $25,000 to pay for that fleet. I've got kids coming tomorrow that have already paid their tuition for the summer.

 

 

 

BJ what you have there is a community sailing center than happens to be squatting on yacht club lands.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Right, hands up anyone who has volunteered to maintain the club's boats. Wait, no one? No surprise here. Please note that my hand is up. To get my kid to his competition I had to buy a set of sails and completely resurrect a beat-to-shit club-owned 420 into a competitive boat in my carport. So, I have a really good idea what goes into maintaining these boats. There were no adults volunteering to repair that boat on behalf of the junior program he was part of. None.

 

I have gone down to the club at a moments notice and repaired a 420 with a hole punched in the bottom after the mast got stuck in the mud. I started maintaining club boats because I wanted to sail with my son, and every time we went down to the club to sail we'd have to spend an hour or so repairing the boats before we could sail them. Not a good situation.

 

Biggest problem is on-going maintenance IMHO. I think maybe the dissenting opinions above are from members of clubs which have a lot more money than my club and can afford to pay people to maintain their boats, or are fortunate enough to have great volunteers. If your club is like that, great, go for it. It looks like some of the programs mentioned above have different boats for the adults and juniors. That makes sense to me - if the adults break the boats they can't use them unless they fix them, but in the meantime the juniors aren't affected.

 

I'm all for having adult sailing programs, just keep in mind that the work has to get done by someone. What I object to is the people who see the shiny boats on the dock and want to sail them without "paying their dues" to the junior program as well. I'm not saying don't do it, just make sure there is something in place to get the maintenance done afterward.

 

I don't know any clubs that have so many volunteers they don't know what to do with them. Maybe your club is different. If there is a shortage of volunteer time available, I think that time should be dedicated to the kids.

 

 

You need to get off of your high horse. I'm not holding up my hand because, unlike you, I don't think volunteering at my club is worthy of praise. I chair Junior Sailing and am a past chair of Adult Sailing. The rule is simple: if any newbie wants to sail anything, ever, you make it happen, whether it's putting them in a boat with a seasoned skipper for race day or helping them rig one of the club's catboats and taking them out for an hour to show them the basics. If a boat gets damaged, fix it. You can get your son's gold medal re-engraved later with "Top Volunteer" and wear it around your club so everyone knows what a winner you are.

 

 

I chaired our club's Junior sailing too. Dash has some valid points.

 

In our case, the Jr. Sailing program was a separate legal entity - a 501 ( c ) 3 not for profit like the club was not, so we could take deductible donations. The only direct support the club provided was space and insurance coverage - we were on their blanket somehow. We raised funds to build out the new sailing center, though it's rent-free on club property. We got NO direct cash from the club, though obviously the membership was our largest fundraising pool. All boats are paid for and maintained through funds either from tuitions, or from donations that we had to raise. Technically we served a public purpose since we educated kids from anywhere, not just member kids, and we also had a scholarship program and put a couple of kids through that couldn't have otherwise afforded it every year.

 

If a boat got taken out of commission, we might have paying students the next day that couldn't sail. That's a problem, since that's why the boats were there in the first place. At the time I was running it we didn't have boats for regattas, only for training. Students provide their own boats, so "all those nice boats" were actually privately owned.

 

"It's ONLY a 420?" Well good, whoever said that, why don't you pony up for a few then? They ain't free, even a used one costs thousands. Someone has to buy them, and someone has to fix them. There are very few replacement parts that are free. And work parties to fix them up? Some things like that happened...but not enough to count on. Not mid-season, when things break on the fly and you need them fixed quickly.

 

Our compensation with the Instructors for the Junior sailors covered...Junior Sailing during the day. Surprise. They were neither indentured servants nor property; we could not legally force them to stay later to teach adults for free. We could, however offer them more money. And...where would that money come from? See above...tuitions, fundraising. We didn't get ANY cash from the club, so those "Free" adult lessons would have to come from our budget. Or we could charge for the lessons.

 

Safety, liability, coach boats - you need a coach/instructor either on the water or in the boat. Gas doesn't grow on trees (though the Club did give us the "member discount" at the fuel dock).

 

THAT BEING SAID...

 

Back when I was running things we knew there was a demand for adult sailing lessons. So we planned, long term, to develop both boats and staff to have a model for it. My vision (and I don't know how close they've come to it) is that adult lessons and boat rentals could be self funding - anything more than break even would be a bonus. Years later, they have adult lessons now as well as a small fleet of J/22's for instruction and that can be chartered.

 

But the idea of an adult of unknown skill level walking up and borrowing a boat to "learn" on it? Uh-uh. Not one of the program boats. YOU try raising $25,000 to pay for that fleet. I've got kids coming tomorrow that have already paid their tuition for the summer.

 

 

 

BJ what you have there is a community sailing center than happens to be squatting on yacht club lands.

 

 

Yes and no. The majority of the students were still from YC families. And the President of the board at the sailing program had a non-voting seat and a regular report to the YC board. But for sure it wasn't like some programs that were only open to member's kids; that was definitely not the case. Anyone could send their kids there.

 

So a club supported sailing center, but not directly club funded...still very closely affiliated with the club. We also shook down plenty of non-member local businesses and people for the bi-annual fundraiser...

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

Right, hands up anyone who has volunteered to maintain the club's boats. Wait, no one? No surprise here. Please note that my hand is up. To get my kid to his competition I had to buy a set of sails and completely resurrect a beat-to-shit club-owned 420 into a competitive boat in my carport. So, I have a really good idea what goes into maintaining these boats. There were no adults volunteering to repair that boat on behalf of the junior program he was part of. None.

 

I have gone down to the club at a moments notice and repaired a 420 with a hole punched in the bottom after the mast got stuck in the mud. I started maintaining club boats because I wanted to sail with my son, and every time we went down to the club to sail we'd have to spend an hour or so repairing the boats before we could sail them. Not a good situation.

 

Biggest problem is on-going maintenance IMHO. I think maybe the dissenting opinions above are from members of clubs which have a lot more money than my club and can afford to pay people to maintain their boats, or are fortunate enough to have great volunteers. If your club is like that, great, go for it. It looks like some of the programs mentioned above have different boats for the adults and juniors. That makes sense to me - if the adults break the boats they can't use them unless they fix them, but in the meantime the juniors aren't affected.

 

I'm all for having adult sailing programs, just keep in mind that the work has to get done by someone. What I object to is the people who see the shiny boats on the dock and want to sail them without "paying their dues" to the junior program as well. I'm not saying don't do it, just make sure there is something in place to get the maintenance done afterward.

 

I don't know any clubs that have so many volunteers they don't know what to do with them. Maybe your club is different. If there is a shortage of volunteer time available, I think that time should be dedicated to the kids.

 

 

You need to get off of your high horse. I'm not holding up my hand because, unlike you, I don't think volunteering at my club is worthy of praise. I chair Junior Sailing and am a past chair of Adult Sailing. The rule is simple: if any newbie wants to sail anything, ever, you make it happen, whether it's putting them in a boat with a seasoned skipper for race day or helping them rig one of the club's catboats and taking them out for an hour to show them the basics. If a boat gets damaged, fix it. You can get your son's gold medal re-engraved later with "Top Volunteer" and wear it around your club so everyone knows what a winner you are.

 

 

I chaired our club's Junior sailing too. Dash has some valid points.

 

In our case, the Jr. Sailing program was a separate legal entity - a 501 ( c ) 3 not for profit like the club was not, so we could take deductible donations. The only direct support the club provided was space and insurance coverage - we were on their blanket somehow. We raised funds to build out the new sailing center, though it's rent-free on club property. We got NO direct cash from the club, though obviously the membership was our largest fundraising pool. All boats are paid for and maintained through funds either from tuitions, or from donations that we had to raise. Technically we served a public purpose since we educated kids from anywhere, not just member kids, and we also had a scholarship program and put a couple of kids through that couldn't have otherwise afforded it every year.

 

If a boat got taken out of commission, we might have paying students the next day that couldn't sail. That's a problem, since that's why the boats were there in the first place. At the time I was running it we didn't have boats for regattas, only for training. Students provide their own boats, so "all those nice boats" were actually privately owned.

 

"It's ONLY a 420?" Well good, whoever said that, why don't you pony up for a few then? They ain't free, even a used one costs thousands. Someone has to buy them, and someone has to fix them. There are very few replacement parts that are free. And work parties to fix them up? Some things like that happened...but not enough to count on. Not mid-season, when things break on the fly and you need them fixed quickly.

 

Our compensation with the Instructors for the Junior sailors covered...Junior Sailing during the day. Surprise. They were neither indentured servants nor property; we could not legally force them to stay later to teach adults for free. We could, however offer them more money. And...where would that money come from? See above...tuitions, fundraising. We didn't get ANY cash from the club, so those "Free" adult lessons would have to come from our budget. Or we could charge for the lessons.

 

Safety, liability, coach boats - you need a coach/instructor either on the water or in the boat. Gas doesn't grow on trees (though the Club did give us the "member discount" at the fuel dock).

 

THAT BEING SAID...

 

Back when I was running things we knew there was a demand for adult sailing lessons. So we planned, long term, to develop both boats and staff to have a model for it. My vision (and I don't know how close they've come to it) is that adult lessons and boat rentals could be self funding - anything more than break even would be a bonus. Years later, they have adult lessons now as well as a small fleet of J/22's for instruction and that can be chartered.

 

But the idea of an adult of unknown skill level walking up and borrowing a boat to "learn" on it? Uh-uh. Not one of the program boats. YOU try raising $25,000 to pay for that fleet. I've got kids coming tomorrow that have already paid their tuition for the summer.

 

 

 

BJ what you have there is a community sailing center than happens to be squatting on yacht club lands.

 

 

Yes and no. The majority of the students were still from YC families. And the President of the board at the sailing program had a non-voting seat and a regular report to the YC board. But for sure it wasn't like some programs that were only open to member's kids; that was definitely not the case. Anyone could send their kids there.

 

So a club supported sailing center, but not directly club funded...still very closely affiliated with the club. We also shook down plenty of non-member local businesses and people for the bi-annual fundraiser...

 

 

 

Separate legal entity and set of books without the members dues going to the assets, boats, and upkeep. Then the members of The Club should have no claims to the tools, toys, and assets. The other side is the direction some clubs are taking with the paying members dues going to turn the club assets into a nanny daycare sailing service in place of the local traveling soccer coach or little league pervert. The only way to grow the sport, pastime, and memberships is the welcoming of more people of all ages and skills into the fold. Even the NYYC with a massive waiting list has Sonars for general membership use.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Most asset owners are in denial on the real world maintenance costs of any asset. Whether it is Comanche, the family Camry, or a simple Laser any assets is going to consume at least 5 to 15% annually of the new replacement cost of the asset. It is always best to start with a budget of 15% and work backwards. Sure you can offset some cost with "volunteers" and DIY. That approach comes with its own cost. If you are going to have club boats and all sailing clubs should have boats for ALL the members use. There should be very regular scheduled inspection of all those boats that does get done. Only with that data can the leadership determine what the maintenance and labor needs are for each type of boats. The reality is most clubs and most boat owners defer the maintenance needs until the asset is trash.

 

The Club Nazi or small group of Nazi's who think they own and must control the boats for all of us must be avoided at all cost. Just like the dining room and bathrooms. You pay the dues you have the same access to the boats as everyone else.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I learned to sail on club-owned dinghies in Vancouver (BC). The difference from most of the foregoing is that it had no junior programmes, all members were adult. There were no boats owned by individual members. The training was all done by volunteers, the maintenance all done by volunteers (with one elected person to oversee each). Boat condition was excellent, in part because the finances were very well run even without excessive fees. There was a social component to the club but members who aged out of the dinghies stayed on because we also collectively owned a Catalina 34 that was also kept in excellent shape. Points being (a) it was a very good situation for learning to sail as an adult, and (B) it is possible to keep the equipment in very good condition with volunteer input if everyone (in our case, about 125 people) buys in. I expect that in the context of a larger conventional yacht club running something like this would be messier because of potentially sharing boats with a junior programme and because only a subset of the membership would have direct vested interest.

 

Makes me think I ought to look at something like that at my current club....

Link to post
Share on other sites

We have a fleet of Ideal 18s for adults lessons, clinics, racing.

I have 3 club instructor kids all make extra money giving private adult lessons.

Im sure they could find a club owned dinghy after hours to use BUT,

why would a beginner adult sailor want to learn how to sail and start off in a Laser or C420?

 

And yes, If an adult breaks something on Tuesday night and is not ready for the kids Weds morning, that's a problem.

 

I think you answered your own question. You can certainly borrow or buy a used laser for under $1,000 to learn on.

Sell it later if its not your cup of tea.

Your club dosnt offer Laser/420 adults rentals

The club offered you a Sunfish, so take it and STFU. Or go buy the boat you want and have them give you lessons on it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why the hell would a full-grown adult want to learn on a 420?? I can barely fit into one myself let alone teach. As a former professional instructor at a very busy sailing school, large yacht club member and adult sailing volunteer instructor I think the best medium is to have boats for the juniors and Lightnings or.... as much as I love to hate on them, Flying Scots for adult instruction. I think every aspect is true, it is very hard to find volunteers to take care of boats and difficult to ask instructors being paid to teach to patch fiberglass instead. At the same time, yacht clubs not fostering sailing instruction past the age of 14 is the reason why the sport is dying in the United States and has been for 40 years. It's a difficult issue with no easy answer but I honestly think the best thing is to just have dedicated boats for each age group. Most adults don't want to get into a 420 and I only saw very few kids be able to handle a fully loaded Scot.

 

The key is also funding. If you want an adult sailing program, one must be supported by the members both in votes and donations. Much can be raised through a cocktail party and endowments. I know this might seem like crazy talk but I have seen it successfully pulled off by more than one organization in a place you wouldn't expect it to happen.

Link to post
Share on other sites

We have a fleet of Ideal 18s for adults lessons, clinics, racing.

I have 3 club instructor kids all make extra money giving private adult lessons.

Im sure they could find a club owned dinghy after hours to use BUT,

why would a beginner adult sailor want to learn how to sail and start off in a Laser or C420?

 

And yes, If an adult breaks something on Tuesday night and is not ready for the kids Weds morning, that's a problem.

 

I think you answered your own question. You can certainly borrow or buy a used laser for under $1,000 to learn on.

Sell it later if its not your cup of tea.

Your club dosnt offer Laser/420 adults rentals

The club offered you a Sunfish, so take it and STFU. Or go buy the boat you want and have them give you lessons on it.

 

Sometimes it's a matter of taking what's offered, yes. My first lessons - as an adult - were in Echos. The club at Jericho Beach used Albacores and Tasers for training. I sail in c420's sometimes in junior-senior races, and if not the perfect ride they're not so bad considering the alternative is not doing it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

We have a fleet of Ideal 18s for adults lessons, clinics, racing.

I have 3 club instructor kids all make extra money giving private adult lessons.

Im sure they could find a club owned dinghy after hours to use BUT,

why would a beginner adult sailor want to learn how to sail and start off in a Laser or C420?

 

And yes, If an adult breaks something on Tuesday night and is not ready for the kids Weds morning, that's a problem.

 

I think you answered your own question. You can certainly borrow or buy a used laser for under $1,000 to learn on.

Sell it later if its not your cup of tea.

Your club dosnt offer Laser/420 adults rentals

The club offered you a Sunfish, so take it and STFU. Or go buy the boat you want and have them give you lessons on it.

 

As mentioned, she knows how to sail a Sunfish and is not a beginner sailor. We have a Sunfish. We've had a Sailfish. She wanted to try something more challenging. As part of an open house, the club rigged and displayed their 420's and Lasers which implied they were accessible to all. Instead of investing in another boat, why not ask the club for a try on their's first? Requests for lessons were polite and "whenever it's convenient". But real helpful advice, otherwise.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

We have a fleet of Ideal 18s for adults lessons, clinics, racing.

I have 3 club instructor kids all make extra money giving private adult lessons.

Im sure they could find a club owned dinghy after hours to use BUT,

why would a beginner adult sailor want to learn how to sail and start off in a Laser or C420?

 

And yes, If an adult breaks something on Tuesday night and is not ready for the kids Weds morning, that's a problem.

 

I think you answered your own question. You can certainly borrow or buy a used laser for under $1,000 to learn on.

Sell it later if its not your cup of tea.

Your club dosnt offer Laser/420 adults rentals

The club offered you a Sunfish, so take it and STFU. Or go buy the boat you want and have them give you lessons on it.

As mentioned, she knows how to sail a Sunfish and is not a beginner sailor. We have a Sunfish. We've had a Sailfish. She wanted to try something more challenging. As part of an open house, the club rigged and displayed their 420's and Lasers which implied they were accessible to all. Instead of investing in another boat, why not ask the club for a try on their's first? Requests for lessons were polite and "whenever it's convenient". But real helpful advice, otherwise.

 

So she knows how to sail. Post 12 says you are accomplished sailors. Sounds like you just want free stuff.

Here you go. $500. (I would offer him $400)

http://longisland.craigslist.org/boa/5627545689.html

 

Ive never met an adult that wanted to get into a C420. Be careful there might be some kind of unnatural warning sign there.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

So she knows how to sail. Post 12 says you are accomplished sailors. Sounds like you just want free stuff.

Here you go. $500. (I would offer him $400)

http://longisland.craigslist.org/boa/5627545689.html

 

Ive never met an adult that wanted to get into a C420. Be careful there might be some kind of unnatural warning sign there.

Thanks for the tip, Edie, that's a great price but decided to go with a Hobie Wave - the seller accepted our offer today - they wouldn't give it away for free, unfortunately, Lots of space on that trampoline so hopefully that will be more socially acceptable. Cheers.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

 

 

 

 

Right, hands up anyone who has volunteered to maintain the club's boats. Wait, no one? No surprise here. Please note that my hand is up. To get my kid to his competition I had to buy a set of sails and completely resurrect a beat-to-shit club-owned 420 into a competitive boat in my carport. So, I have a really good idea what goes into maintaining these boats. There were no adults volunteering to repair that boat on behalf of the junior program he was part of. None.

 

I have gone down to the club at a moments notice and repaired a 420 with a hole punched in the bottom after the mast got stuck in the mud. I started maintaining club boats because I wanted to sail with my son, and every time we went down to the club to sail we'd have to spend an hour or so repairing the boats before we could sail them. Not a good situation.

 

Biggest problem is on-going maintenance IMHO. I think maybe the dissenting opinions above are from members of clubs which have a lot more money than my club and can afford to pay people to maintain their boats, or are fortunate enough to have great volunteers. If your club is like that, great, go for it. It looks like some of the programs mentioned above have different boats for the adults and juniors. That makes sense to me - if the adults break the boats they can't use them unless they fix them, but in the meantime the juniors aren't affected.

 

I'm all for having adult sailing programs, just keep in mind that the work has to get done by someone. What I object to is the people who see the shiny boats on the dock and want to sail them without "paying their dues" to the junior program as well. I'm not saying don't do it, just make sure there is something in place to get the maintenance done afterward.

 

I don't know any clubs that have so many volunteers they don't know what to do with them. Maybe your club is different. If there is a shortage of volunteer time available, I think that time should be dedicated to the kids.

 

 

You need to get off of your high horse. I'm not holding up my hand because, unlike you, I don't think volunteering at my club is worthy of praise. I chair Junior Sailing and am a past chair of Adult Sailing. The rule is simple: if any newbie wants to sail anything, ever, you make it happen, whether it's putting them in a boat with a seasoned skipper for race day or helping them rig one of the club's catboats and taking them out for an hour to show them the basics. If a boat gets damaged, fix it. You can get your son's gold medal re-engraved later with "Top Volunteer" and wear it around your club so everyone knows what a winner you are.

 

 

I chaired our club's Junior sailing too. Dash has some valid points.

 

In our case, the Jr. Sailing program was a separate legal entity - a 501 ( c ) 3 not for profit like the club was not, so we could take deductible donations. The only direct support the club provided was space and insurance coverage - we were on their blanket somehow. We raised funds to build out the new sailing center, though it's rent-free on club property. We got NO direct cash from the club, though obviously the membership was our largest fundraising pool. All boats are paid for and maintained through funds either from tuitions, or from donations that we had to raise. Technically we served a public purpose since we educated kids from anywhere, not just member kids, and we also had a scholarship program and put a couple of kids through that couldn't have otherwise afforded it every year.

 

If a boat got taken out of commission, we might have paying students the next day that couldn't sail. That's a problem, since that's why the boats were there in the first place. At the time I was running it we didn't have boats for regattas, only for training. Students provide their own boats, so "all those nice boats" were actually privately owned.

 

"It's ONLY a 420?" Well good, whoever said that, why don't you pony up for a few then? They ain't free, even a used one costs thousands. Someone has to buy them, and someone has to fix them. There are very few replacement parts that are free. And work parties to fix them up? Some things like that happened...but not enough to count on. Not mid-season, when things break on the fly and you need them fixed quickly.

 

Our compensation with the Instructors for the Junior sailors covered...Junior Sailing during the day. Surprise. They were neither indentured servants nor property; we could not legally force them to stay later to teach adults for free. We could, however offer them more money. And...where would that money come from? See above...tuitions, fundraising. We didn't get ANY cash from the club, so those "Free" adult lessons would have to come from our budget. Or we could charge for the lessons.

 

Safety, liability, coach boats - you need a coach/instructor either on the water or in the boat. Gas doesn't grow on trees (though the Club did give us the "member discount" at the fuel dock).

 

THAT BEING SAID...

 

Back when I was running things we knew there was a demand for adult sailing lessons. So we planned, long term, to develop both boats and staff to have a model for it. My vision (and I don't know how close they've come to it) is that adult lessons and boat rentals could be self funding - anything more than break even would be a bonus. Years later, they have adult lessons now as well as a small fleet of J/22's for instruction and that can be chartered.

 

But the idea of an adult of unknown skill level walking up and borrowing a boat to "learn" on it? Uh-uh. Not one of the program boats. YOU try raising $25,000 to pay for that fleet. I've got kids coming tomorrow that have already paid their tuition for the summer.

 

 

 

BJ what you have there is a community sailing center than happens to be squatting on yacht club lands.

 

 

Yes and no. The majority of the students were still from YC families. And the President of the board at the sailing program had a non-voting seat and a regular report to the YC board. But for sure it wasn't like some programs that were only open to member's kids; that was definitely not the case. Anyone could send their kids there.

 

So a club supported sailing center, but not directly club funded...still very closely affiliated with the club. We also shook down plenty of non-member local businesses and people for the bi-annual fundraiser...

 

 

 

Not an uncommon setup these days. It is NOT a CSC by any means, which implies any joe schmoe can come in and check out boats. Non-profit/separate junior programs are still YC programs but with a more smartly protected asset group. In the case of a YC that may not make money, and a junior program that does, protecting junior assets in a foundation is important so that the operating budget is untouchable by the board.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...