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20 hours ago, guerdon said:

As a Seppo [rhymes with tank which rhymes with yank] I am enjoying not being called an aus hole[which doesn't rhyme rhyme with anything and derives it's meaning from the insecurities of it's denizens.

There, there cupcake, did you get it caught in your zipper again?

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First of all I had a few klicks from my favorite sailing forum so I started to search for the tread. Found it! I'm the guy who bought that massive steel thing...  Regarding the mustache, I always

She is the daughter of a sailor Both yachts and RN She came to me fully trained she can hold a course,  cook good food on one ring, loves rowing, can double declutch a land rover and ha

I have watched these last few posts with interest I agree that I should put more effort in...... I also a agree that film making has changed. In one vid I made there was a 45 second shot....

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On 10/1/2021 at 10:47 AM, robtoujours said:

They are also my guilty pleasure. I like that they are genuinely working class as opposed to members of the petit bourgeoisie slumming it / grifting

Good on em

Sam Holmes does seem to be keen to get around to places off the beaten track

his cut the blather editing must surely inspire others soon

surprised no one has done a slicker version of dylans approach yet somewhere sunnier

Our man Winter has been a film and video professional for probably forty years.  Few come close to his artistry with holding an image or a shot long enough for the mood to sink in to your soul.   Maybe Alluring Arctic.   Or am I a sucker for Fjords.  

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDpg-x8jI4T5Kk4h2jE00mQ

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An interesting thing about Erik's next videos, per his Instagram, he apparently caught Covid in the Faroe Islands, eg had a positive test and started feeling sick, while he was out between Faroe and Iceland.  So he had to turn around and this made everything so late in the season that he bailed back to Haugesund.  Scary stuff, but should be a good series.  

ps. Did you know that Haugesund is also the name of a mattress from Ikea? The internet is a remarkable thing. 

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9 hours ago, ROWBOATLOAD said:

Our man Winter has been a film and video professional for probably forty years.  Few come close to his artistry with holding an image or a shot long enough for the mood to sink in to your soul.   Maybe Alluring Arctic.   Or am I a sucker for Fjords.  

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDpg-x8jI4T5Kk4h2jE00mQ

I like Dylan’s stuff as much as the next internet shut-in but I have to disagree 

I find his camera and technical skills amateurish at best, often combined with inadequate equipment for what he is trying to do making watching his stuff frustrating 

The interesting thing about his work is that each episode is structured as a mini documentary that you might see on regional tv

Whereas most yt stuff seems to be structured like a music video or mtv reality show

but in terms of cinematography and editing “sea change” blows Dylan (and everyone else) out the water

I am holding out for the Sergei Eisenstein of sailing videos 

Or for Dylan to get some advanced tech like a microphone, light, wide angle lens, etc

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1 hour ago, robtoujours said:

I like Dylan’s stuff as much as the next internet shut-in but I have to disagree 

I find his camera and technical skills amateurish at best, often combined with inadequate equipment for what he is trying to do making watching his stuff frustrating 

The interesting thing about his work is that each episode is structured as a mini documentary that you might see on regional tv

Whereas most yt stuff seems to be structured like a music video or mtv reality show

but in terms of cinematography and editing “sea change” blows Dylan (and everyone else) out the water

I am holding out for the Sergei Eisenstein of sailing videos 

Or for Dylan to get some advanced tech like a microphone, light, wide angle lens, etc

You are like the youngsters who have been listening to crap music in compressed formats on earbuds for so long that they prefer it to real music with dynamic range, recorded and played in lossless formats, on good equipment. His sense of light and framing is exquisite IMO. Dylan is an old pro, doing things the old way, for an audience of "mostly old blokes". Works for me.

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1 hour ago, Jim in Halifax said:

You are like the youngsters who have been listening to crap music in compressed formats on earbuds for so long that they prefer it to real music with dynamic range, recorded and played in lossless formats, on good equipment. His sense of light and framing is exquisite IMO. Dylan is an old pro, doing things the old way, for an audience of "mostly old blokes". Works for me.

I'm not an old bloke.  Old cow might be closer to the mark.

But I agree with @Jim in Halifax.  To my eyes, Dylan's videography is great, and I dunno what @robtoujours is on about.

Besides, I don't think that Dylan would look at his best in a bikini or with a manbun.  And the waters he sails in are too murky for snorkeling.

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8 hours ago, Foiling Optimist said:

An interesting thing about Erik's next videos, per his Instagram, he apparently caught Covid in the Faroe Islands, eg had a positive test and started feeling sick, while he was out between Faroe and Iceland.  So he had to turn around and this made everything so late in the season that he bailed back to Haugesund.  Scary stuff, but should be a good series.  

ps. Did you know that Haugesund is also the name of a mattress from Ikea? The internet is a remarkable thing. 

Yes it is disappointing. His videos are so good though that even a failed mission I will learn some things. He’s quit his job now so perhaps next season he will start the expedition earlier.

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3 hours ago, Jim in Halifax said:

You are like the youngsters who have been listening to crap music in compressed formats on earbuds for so long that they prefer it to real music with dynamic range, recorded and played in lossless formats, on good equipment. His sense of light and framing is exquisite IMO. Dylan is an old pro, doing things the old way, for an audience of "mostly old blokes". Works for me.

My touchstones are more along the lines of “knife in the water”, “the silent world” or anything by raoul coutard etc rather than regional uk tv for cinematography 

im annoyed because I actually paid money for a few of his videos and was confused at the gap between effusive praise here and what I was actually seeing

his content is good and interesting, but shaky camerawork, bad lens choice, shitty lighting, audio sounding like it’s from an old telephone etc is what it is

rambling old man style is fine, after all I like jack Hargreaves and Tom cunliffe 

But given current tech it is absurdly cheap to do this stuff properly now compared to 10-20 years ago 

seems oldies here have no filmic education or taste? Ok boomer

 

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2 hours ago, robtoujours said:

seems oldies here have no filmic education or taste? Ok boomer

Once a discussion gets to the point of citing other people's tastes as a lack of education, the conversation starts going downhill.  And "ok boomer" is a type of hand grenade.

Here's one of Dylan's vids.  I look fwd to @robtoujours posting a link of rob's better video, or one which has received more hits than the >5million of this one across various re-postings
 

 

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Latest NatGeographic cites a study on starling murmurations, their effect on peregrine falcon attack success, and how the pulsations are caused not by fluctuating bird density, as was supposed, but by synchronized extension or contraction of the starlings' wings to alter their pixel size. Sort of like a stadium card stunt.

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1 hour ago, TwoLegged said:

Once a discussion gets to the point of citing other people's tastes as a lack of education, the conversation starts going downhill.  And "ok boomer" is a type of hand grenade.

Here's one of Dylan's vids.  I look fwd to @robtoujours posting a link of rob's better video, or one which has received more hits than the >5million of this one across various re-postings
 

 

It’s a clip of a murmuration. So? Everyone loves murmurations. What is the relevance to the work Dylan charges real money for? 

As for better videos, I’m not a filmmaker asking to be paid for my short films. Certainly not one claiming decades of professional experience. And then whinging that more people aren’t buying them so I can go cruising and it’s only because I don’t have tits

m8, it’s not cos you don’t look good in a bikini, it’s cos ur videos are sorta shit

Better produced videos for free on YouTube - take your pick - there are hundreds - from amateurs - even no bikinis like with tally ho etc

The things I dislike about some parts of his videos are the result of sheer laziness on his part, or maybe low energy is a better way to put it

it’s like that thing with his diesel tank, same I couldn’t be bothered to fix it properly mentality but I will complain about it instead

if he put more effort in he would be more successful 

I’m not saying he is Alan partridge, but nor is he the next jacques Cousteau 

sorry boomers

 

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1 hour ago, TwoLegged said:

And "ok boomer" is a type of hand grenade.

It isn't if you don't take it that way. I've always thought the saying was a very poor reflection on the speaker, since it usually came out of the mouth of a young person who didn't know what they didn't know. That's what I told my kids. :)

Now I think the saying has jumped the shark, and who wants to use outdated sayings?

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Dylan used YouTube for many years but got fed up when they were heavily skimming all his earnings on the music copyright scam. He wasn't interested in the Patreon grind and asked instead for PayPal 'taps' if you enjoyed his work. He decided to go pay-per-view to limit his audience to those who enjoyed his films and were interested in supporting his projects. At $ a film, he reckoned he'd separate the 'wheat from the chaff'. He also used to offer a money-back guarantee if you didn't like his work. I don't know if that still applies but I'll wager he'll refund you if you write to him. And there are still many free films on his Keep Turning Left web site. Obviously he's not to your taste, but many of us on CA appreciate Dylan Winter and what he does.

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Wow.  I am not even going to quote rob again.  We can all do without that bile being regurgitated.

Here's my take on @dylan winter's videos: he fulfils his objectives exceptionally well, but those objectives are not everyone's cup of tea.

That's not unusual.  Tastes vary, and the audience for different genres may not overlap greatly. Tits-in-the-Caribbean viewers may not much enjoy sailing-nordic-storms, whose viewers might not be into rebuilding-wooden-boat, whose fans may not be into two-babies-acquire-a-trimaran.   À Chacun Son Goût.

Personally, I love Dylan's videos.  No drama, no bullshit.  Just a bloke navigating the coast in a succession of crappy old slug boats, without much cash, fixing them up just enough to be usable and then going out to find delight in the mundane and tell a story of where he is rather than how cool he is.  (Which is a good call, 'cos Dylan is an amiable everyman rather than a cool kid).

I think this is magnificent.  it reminds of advice given to me to by a biologist on a farm walk: "Your terrier is right. Look DOWN".  That was because at my feet was an extraordinary variety of rare orchids and other plants which provided the food for an amazing variety of moths which the 'ologists were documenting prolifically.  Dylan does the same with the coast: he gets up close and finds the overlooked details.  Mudflats that most people avoid, estuaries lined with industrial archaeology, rivers lined with pretentious toffs, wee fishing ports reeking of economic decline: Dylan tells their story as an observer without sounding like a teacher or a poser.  (The BBC ran a series called "Coast", which isn't a tenth as good.  Even though it probably had a thousand times the budget, its presenter is a twazzock).

I don't always like the story Dylan tells, and I annoyed him muchly a few years ago by criticising his take on some Scottish history.  But I love watching his videos, and my disagreement doesn't detract from my enjoyment: his story is his story, even if it's not my story it's well-told and worth hearing.

So some people don't Dylan's videos.  Fine, your taste is your taste and my taste s my taste.  I don't like Sam Holmes's video (no storytelling, no emotion, and his persistent lack of effort to pronounce placenames seems to me to be plain rude); but other like  Sam's work, with is fine.  Similarly, I find RAN sailing to be deadly boring, and La Vagabonde too me-me-cool-me, but they have other fans.

What I don't get, though, is calling Dylan's work "mediocre".  That seems to me to be an indefensible slur on the creator of a lot of very well-edited fine footage.  Fair enough if you don't like the genre or the style ... but using that as the spur to denounce his quality seems to me to be mean and nasty, and a bit petty.

I do have one big criticism of Dylan's videos.  It is an utter disgrace that they have not long since propelled Dylan to inclusion in one of the lists of British honours.  Even leaving aside all the party donors who basically bought their honours, the lists are stuffed full of people who had done much lesser service to their country than the man who has filmed its coasts in such detail and with so little posing.  C'mon, Brits get yer fingers out and start hammering the Honours Committee to rectify this scandalous omission.   Even if he doesn't get to be Lord Dylan of Magic Roundabout, he should at least be OBE.

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Here's younger guy and his SO that seem pretty matter of fact about their work on a wooden boat they plan to cruise. Anyone brave enough to just take a drill and fasteners to the bottom of their boat.... 

 

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1 hour ago, robtoujours said:

I’ll get over the £5

I’ve read his posts 

veneration of mediocrity ticks me off

he’d be able to bake a lot more bread if he tried harder 

I’d better get back to TikTok! 

Just checking - you know he’s here, right?

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41 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

(The BBC ran a series called "Coast", which isn't a tenth as good.  Even though it probably had a thousand times the budget, its presenter is a twazzock)

There seem to be about 30 presenters -- which one? Not Dr. Alice Roberts, we hope. She is superb and brilliant, PhD in forensic osteology, one of Time Team's fabulous bone ladies (along with Margaret Cox and Jackie McKinley), and she would be even better as a marsupial.

Neil Oliver I should like but do not, for some reason.

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Are you guys kidding me? I know who the OP is, you want me to fight him or something??

twolegged is not reading what I wrote

Remember i said i found his content good and interesting? How quickly they forget, smh

the content themes etc are great 

what would elevate his work would be attention to detail on the technical side

i mean since unlike all YouTubers most of his stuff is $pay to view$ it doesn’t seem to me to be unreasonable to advocate for improvements in this area, you know, as a paying customer 

Saying he should be knighted for services to the arts, dunno about that, seems literally like venerating mediocrity

Tho maybe I am too old school? Mediocre for me means “ok”, not “bad”, hardly a condemnation 

and if you think I’m bitter, wait until you see gen z come and appropriate your mansions and get you “hard cancelled”

you’ll be begging for me to come back then!! Believe me!! Watch out folx 

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14 minutes ago, Diarmuid said:

There seem to be about 30 presenters -- which one? Not Dr. Alice Roberts, we hope. She is superb and brilliant, PhD in forensic osteology, one of Time Team's fabulous bone ladies (along with Margaret Cox and Jackie McKinley), and she would be even better as a marsupial.

Neil Oliver I should like but do not, for some reason.

Neil Oliver is the one I was referring to.  And I really think that you should not like him, esp since he has zoomed off down an alt-right wormhole.

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Dylan always said his small audience are 'olde blokes' so he doesn't expect most to watch his stuff. He started the thread 5 years ago as a think out loud about the blooming Youtube sailing rockstars. 

What I've taken away is an understanding of how very few are making any more than a few bucks. Sex sells, duh,  that's older than baseball. Mostly, Youtube has a lot of people dancing for them to sell ads. 

YoutubeSailing sells only if your soft porn thumbs are any good. Much of the content sounds pretty boring but I haven't watched many of the vids posted here.

I find many of the presenters aren't very interesting. And the videos are usually those presenters - un-edited - talking to the lens for a half an hour.

Cheesus, I wouldn't subject anyone to me blabbing for a half an hour into a lens. 

Sailing is an obscure pastime, just as it ever was. Youtube sailing is not much about sailing. It's about live-aboard mostly. 

Sailing, travel, food, architecture, culture (esp. generational, my favorite!), I like a production that takes time and effort to create. I don't want to wade through junk. :)

No matter what you use for a lens, it still takes an eye today. That lets out most of the sailing Youtubers. 

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

What I've taken away is an understanding of how very few are making any more than a few bucks. Sex sells, duh,  that's older than baseball. Mostly, Youtube has a lot of people dancing for them to sell ads. 

If you get over 100k subscribers you can earn 2-3k per month. 

advertisers value the sailing demographic quite highly

Sailing, travel, food, architecture, culture (esp. generational, my favorite!), I like a production that takes time and effort to create. I don't want to wade through junk. :)

No matter what you use for a lens, it still takes an eye today. That lets out most of the sailing Youtubers. 

 

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19 minutes ago, robtoujours said:

If you get over 100k subscribers you can earn 2-3k per month. 

advertisers value the sailing demographic quite highly

Sailing, travel, food, architecture, culture (esp. generational, my favorite!), I like a production that takes time and effort to create. I don't want to wade through junk. :)

No matter what you use for a lens, it still takes an eye today. That lets out most of the sailing Youtubers. 

 

Yeah, I watched the first video in that series, and while the videography is great, IMO some of the script is trite. And I prefer the camera to cast an adoring eye at female rather than male crew. But that's just me.

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4 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Sir, I know a genre just for you (must be 19+).

Naw, I don't need that, thanks. But it is pleasant to see an occasional adult female on a sailing-in-the-tropics series. A sweat-fest with 3 hairy guys and a little dog on an old boat with a solid-teak deck is my idea of a nightmare.<_<

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24 minutes ago, Israel Hands said:

Yeah, I watched the first video in that series, and while the videography is great, IMO some of the script is trite. And I prefer the camera to cast an adoring eye at female rather than male crew. But that's just me.

I agree with you, it’s the weakest element. Thankfully they mostly drop it in the later eps. 

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Sea Change is an amazing channel and I am so sad they stopped making videos.  Their cinematography and editing is next level.  They must be pros.  I have been touting their channel on here for years.  Still hoping for a come back.

 

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I was struck by @robtoujours critique as I had come to a similar conclusion, specifically about how the camera's field of view in KTL videos often seems weirdly narrow. This gives a sort of claustrophobic feeling where you want the camera to pan around more. It's clearly not easy to film on a small boat  as you don't have a lot of angles, which is why drones help so much for the likes of Eric Aanderaa, but KTL seems tighter than lots of others. The series' languid style lends itself to lingering shots of passing scenery and not too much camera movement but somehow this doesn't work as well with the actual sailing.  Proper amateurs like Aanderaa also tend to do things like mount a GoPro  on a stick aft of the transom, which is probably a pro cinematography no no, but for watching someone operate a sailboat, especially in more sporty conditions, it really works. 

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14 minutes ago, Foiling Optimist said:

Proper amateurs like Aanderaa also tend to do things like mount a GoPro  on a stick aft of the transom, which is probably a pro cinematography no no, but for watching someone operate a sailboat, especially in more sporty conditions, it really works. 

Dylan's videos are rarely about operating a sailboat.  They are mostly about the places.  And to get good footage of those places, he films in non-sporty conditions.

It all makes for a more intimate feel than the drone-and-Gopro videos.  Dylan's videos convey a sense of seeing the place through his eyes, rather the eyes of a machine.  

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Yes, I’m not sure what he was using - possibly a handycam with a 24-800+ mm focal range and some dslr with a 50mm?

Especially on a boat that is way too long. The view is always wobbling around drunkenly, you can’t contextualise what is going on, you need WIDE in this situation.

The main camera on a phone is about 24mm equivalent. Movies generally use 16-35mm range. Eyesight is of course crazy wide fov, but is subjectively rendered to the brain.

A budget setup would be something like a used nikon d7200 with a Tokina 11-20 f2.8. (18-35mm ff equivalent) stick a handle on for stability and shotgun mic for sound, add polariser and variable nd filter, done. No need for latest Sony A7R or drones. 

A Sony handycam is cool as it is cheap, gimballed, and can zoom in quite far - useful on a rolling deck and zooming into shore.

now for something completely different:

 

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@robtoujours, if you have a wee moment to spare from telling pro videographer Dylan how he is doing KTL videos all wrong ... maybe you'd like to tell Bob Perry how he has been designing boats all wrong for years?

Then you could tell Evans Starzinger how he went around the world wrongly. Twice.

I am sure that Bob & Evans are eager to learn from you.

 

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1 hour ago, TwoLegged said:

@robtoujours, if you have a wee moment to spare from telling pro videographer Dylan how he is doing KTL videos all wrong ... maybe you'd like to tell Bob Perry how he has been designing boats all wrong for years?

Then you could tell Evans Starzinger how he went around the world wrongly. Twice.

I am sure that Bob & Evans are eager to learn from you.

 

And why would I want to do that?

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3 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

@robtoujours, if you have a wee moment to spare from telling pro videographer Dylan how he is doing KTL videos all wrong ... maybe you'd like to tell Bob Perry how he has been designing boats all wrong for years?

Then you could tell Evans Starzinger how he went around the world wrongly. Twice.

I am sure that Bob & Evans are eager to learn from you.

 

 

1 hour ago, robtoujours said:

And why would I want to do that?

Bob and Evens are probably far too bourgeoisie to bother him. Communists are normally far more interested in turning on their own kin. So being the good socialist that he is, Rob is, quite correctly, focused on ferreting out and eliminating his fellow travelers that are deviating from the true path. He probably just thought he detected the vile stench of Trotskyism in some of Dylans videos.......

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7 hours ago, robtoujours said:

what would elevate his work would be attention to detail on the technical side

i mean since unlike all YouTubers most of his stuff is $pay to view$ it doesn’t seem to me to be unreasonable to advocate for improvements in this area, you know, as a paying customer

There are two facts to consider

  1. Some of Dylan's videos predate the era of inexpensive HD digital video equipment
  2. Like all endeavors his best work is better than, well, some of his other work

I would agree that some of the early videos are not as visually satisfying as the modern eye might hope for and that there is the odd video that focuses overmuch on themes that are neither uplifting nor informative.  In between there is some fantastic work.

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On 10/3/2021 at 12:34 PM, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Not always the case.

Here is some rare archival footage of the hallway of an “avant garde” music club I frequented as a teenager in Washington, DC - the venerable 930 Club, so named because that was its address on “F” Street.  Dirty, dank and run-down, it offered cheap shows for all ages (no drinking age entry requirement) - a boon to us teenagers.  Great memories of stage diving into the crowd during shows.  The club, a fixture of the “underground” arts scene on then generally boring and bureaucrat- and lawyer-laden Washington, DC, is now long since gone, part of a musical era there.

The video takes place immediately after a set player by the now-famous/now-world-known local hardcore punk rock band “Minor Threat”, a good friend’s brother was the front man/lead singer.

A video, simply, of the dingy hallway into the club, in 1983, capturing various people’s coming and going.  Which evokes plenty of nostalgia for those us, decades later, who were there then as teenagers.  Ain’t YouTube a wonderful thing!  This video has 18 views.  Let’s get the number of hits way up there, all!

Has there ever been a video on YouTube like this?  Totally innocuous and meaningless to the vast majority of people, yet powerfully evocative for others.  Maybe like the first video ever posted on YouTube (“Me at the Zoo”).

Thr videographer of the time, 1983, a 19 or 20 year old (Mitch of the local band, “G.I.”, shooting with what kind equipment...?  (I bought my first bass from him!)  Did he somehow imagine his “film” would be viewed on a global video platform one day? :-) Why would he have decided to shoot such footage?

 

Holy shit - I was in the Army in DC from 83 to 87 and have been in that hallway more times than I can remember.  I saw so many great bands there.  I didn't know footage like that existed.  It's breaking my heart to see it.  Sic transit gloria mundi.

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8 hours ago, Elegua said:

Here's younger guy and his SO that seem pretty matter of fact about their work on a wooden boat they plan to cruise. Anyone brave enough to just take a drill and fasteners to the bottom of their boat.... 

 

And he swapped out those keel bolts like a boss.  Really impressive.  What is the boat though?  An Atkin Eric, maybe?

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1 hour ago, low bum said:

Holy shit - I was in the Army in DC from 83 to 87 and have been in that hallway more times than I can remember.  I saw so many great bands there.  I didn't know footage like that existed.  It's breaking my heart to see it.  Sic transit gloria mundi.

Indeed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/10/03/arlington-inner-ear-studios-closing/

Punk never was meant to last, tho. Iconoclastic rather than iconic. Moody Blues are still playing their greatest hits with your local philharmonic.:rolleyes:

Fuck that noise.

 

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4 hours ago, Munz said:

Bob and Evens are probably far too bourgeoisie to bother him. Communists are normally far more interested in turning on their own kin. So being the good socialist that he is, Rob is, quite correctly, focused on ferreting out and eliminating his fellow travelers that are deviating from the true path. He probably just thought he detected the vile stench of Trotskyism in some of Dylans videos.......

Well-observed, Munz.  That Communist vengeance against small differences is also very similar to the Christian pursuit of heretics, which was wonderfully parodied by Emo Philips:

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"

Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

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2 hours ago, Diarmuid said:

Punk never was meant to last, tho. Iconoclastic rather than iconic. Moody Blues are still playing their greatest hits with your local philharmonic.:rolleyes:

Fuck that noise.

To be fair to The Moody Blues, their muzak does have one achievement: displacing The Eagles from top slot on the most-overplayed-boring-shite-evah list.

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8 hours ago, 2airishuman said:

There are two facts to consider

  1. Some of Dylan's videos predate the era of inexpensive HD digital video equipment
  2. Like all endeavors his best work is better than, well, some of his other work

I would agree that some of the early videos are not as visually satisfying as the modern eye might hope for and that there is the odd video that focuses overmuch on themes that are neither uplifting nor informative.  In between there is some fantastic work.

That’s a good point, only I think it’s fair to say that my main issue with /some parts/ of his eps is lens choice and lighting. Filmmakers have been using these focal lengths for over a century and lighting your scene is well understood by media professionals. 

Modern tech like mirrorless cameras add in camera image stabilisation and improve dynamic range. Which are nice to have but irrelevant if you won’t get the basics right.

Re class position, Dylan is not a member of the bourgeoisie. If he were, he would be employing others to make the videos for him. 

That joke quoted above is as well worn as the one about the US battleship vs the lighthouse. 

I prefer the classic Monty Python scene:


 

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8 hours ago, low bum said:

And he swapped out those keel bolts like a boss.  Really impressive.  What is the boat though?  An Atkin Eric, maybe?

His bronze work is pretty good too... Too bad he's not more prolific.  Probably too busy doing. 

 

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36 minutes ago, Elegua said:

His bronze work is pretty good too... Too bad he's not more prolific.  Probably too busy doing. 

 

Amazing boat (also has dyneema rigging). More info on the woodenboat forum, search for "ketch Julia" if your interested.....

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Speaking of classic boat restorations, I don’t think I’ve seen this one posted before:

She is the ex FCF Challenger / Creightons Naturally ..

Done by a pretty normal cruising couple. (Husband being a shipwright). Some amazing work. 

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7 hours ago, Diarmuid said:

Indeed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/10/03/arlington-inner-ear-studios-closing/

Punk never was meant to last, tho. Iconoclastic rather than iconic. Moody Blues are still playing their greatest hits with your local philharmonic.:rolleyes:

Fuck that noise.

 

Yes - saw that about Inner Ear Studios.  Arlington County continues its inevitable bourgeois-ification. 

Indeed, punk was never meant to last —despite what the Exploited screamed in 1983 about punk not being dead (it was certainly a lot deader than its earlier late-70s blossoming of creativity and political protest that later degenerated into skinhead bands and the like).  It’s now deader than the Wild We Roamer’s naive sailing “dreams”, crushed by a puppy, among other things.

The “sad” thing about the passing of Inner Ear Studios is the passing of some actual, homegrown local DC culture, a town cursed by the quadrennial comings and going’s of political power seekers, “consultants”, associated hangers-on, etc, to the detriment of its local soul/arts scene/culture.  RIP Inner Ear.  Got to be hard for the local music folks who’ve been supported by Don Zientara all these decades.

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Meanwhile, Sam is crossing from the Shetlands to Norway in a nice southerly, but likely to hit a light patch before a northerly comes through.

https://share.garmin.com/SamHolmes

And Colin is back in Linton Bay, hopefully soon to be back sailing - I'll visit them again in November, assuming they are still there.

 

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19 hours ago, robtoujours said:

If you get over 100k subscribers you can earn 2-3k per month. 

advertisers value the sailing demographic quite highly

Sailing, travel, food, architecture, culture (esp. generational, my favorite!), I like a production that takes time and effort to create. I don't want to wade through junk. :)

No matter what you use for a lens, it still takes an eye today. That lets out most of the sailing Youtubers. 

 

I watched the first episode in it's entirety. Agreed, they are a cut above much of the stuff posted in this thread.

Sea Change is the classic 'man against the sea' epic (sort of,...) "We're testing ourselves" theme. It's in the genre of say Banff Film Festival, stuccato action - clicking scenes, youth. They do a pretty good job of it. 

Dylan is an old guy content to just sail by a few birds in a backwater. 

There is an audience for both styles. I don't think they overlap, that much. 

So on the skills, I think Dylans skills are suited and refined to his craft as is (are) the young guy(s).

I watched their last episode, but only skimmed it to see some of their evolution. They got better and they did have one episode in 5 years that had a million views.  

My critique is; first the narrative. That was pretty thin, and then the narration wasn't compelling. I would expect Dylan has had some 'voice' work over the years with BBC. That helps a lot. 

And the young guys would have benefitted by some style. Sometimes it takes experience, or even a 'stylist' to inject some color into your work. A few colorful shirts now and then (bare chests and tats got old fast), maybe some female touch to give the footage more depth. Too much caveman. 

And finally, they don't get the subtleties of 'sailing' like Dylan does. I don't fault them for that, most people (even sailors), don't. 

 But Dylan will have to answer to us about his equipment and m.o. now. We can all improve. 

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1 hour ago, Kris Cringle said:

I watched the first episode in it's entirety. Agreed, they are a cut above much of the stuff posted in this thread.

Sea Change is the classic 'man against the sea' epic (sort of,...) "We're testing ourselves" theme. It's in the genre of say Banff Film Festival, stuccato action - clicking scenes, youth. They do a pretty good job of it. 

Dylan is an old guy content to just sail by a few birds in a backwater. 

There is an audience for both styles. I don't think they overlap, that much. 

So on the skills, I think Dylans skills are suited and refined to his craft as is (are) the young guy(s).

I watched their last episode, but only skimmed it to see some of their evolution. They got better and they did have one episode in 5 years that had a million views.  

My critique is; first the narrative. That was pretty thin, and then the narration wasn't compelling. I would expect Dylan has had some 'voice' work over the years with BBC. That helps a lot. 

And the young guys would have benefitted by some style. Sometimes it takes experience, or even a 'stylist' to inject some color into your work. A few colorful shirts now and then (bare chests and tats got old fast), maybe some female touch to give the footage more depth. Too much caveman. 

And finally, they don't get the subtleties of 'sailing' like Dylan does. I don't fault them for that, most people (even sailors), don't. 

 But Dylan will have to answer to us about his equipment and m.o. now. We can all improve. 

Dylan has a great voice for narration.  Good ear for music too. Might be a bit much to expect him to buy a Red camera but I’d gladly donate a wide angle lens if I could spare one ;-)

Though with the sea change crew I do find the lack of overt narrative refreshing. If I hear one more “Hey guys!! Like and subscribe and don’t forget to press the bell button..!“ again..

Also they made their videos 6 years ago which is an eternity in YT terms!

i hope some of them add to the corpus some time.

For a good story I recommend the documentary “Following Seas” if you haven’t already..

 

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1 hour ago, robtoujours said:

For a good story I recommend the documentary “Following Seas” if you haven’t already..

 

At least as good are Madame Griffith’s accounts of their voyaging life in various interviews.  After the old man passed away, she was anything but idle, running a trading cargo wind ship in the S. Pacific (an acquaintance of mine crewed on it way back in the ‘90s):

 

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15 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

To be fair to The Moody Blues, their muzak does have one achievement: displacing The Eagles from top slot on the most-overplayed-boring-shite-evah list.

Shouldn’t ‘Coldplay’ be on that list also?

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35 minutes ago, robtoujours said:
57 minutes ago, loneshark64 said:

2 whole days starting at the low low price of only $1400! 

https://www.cruisersacademy.com/introtocruising

Wow! A week of RYA comp crew here is like $800 .. 

yeah, but is that with the world-famous Senor Brady?

Seriously, this high price might just work if they can tap the Silicon Valley crowd who usually spend $1400/day on poncey lattés.

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35 minutes ago, robtoujours said:

Wow! A week of RYA comp crew here is like $800 .. 

A couple of quick google hits suggests that the going rate for ASA 103 in their area is like $950.  So they are asking $400 just to be in their presence.  Plus you get to skip any prerequisites.  Or certifications.  

 

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Meanwhile, Sam is approx. halfway to Norway. The wind turns southerly tomorrow night and increases.

And here we are whining about camera angles or lighting (sorry, I couldn't help myself ). Wonder how many have sailed a 28footer in the North Sea in October?

 

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10 hours ago, bajakiter said:

Meanwhile, Sam is approx. halfway to Norway. The wind turns southerly tomorrow night and increases.

And here we are whining about camera angles or lighting (sorry, I couldn't help myself ). Wonder how many have sailed a 28footer in the North Sea in October?

 

I have watched these last few posts with interest

I agree that I should put more effort in......

I also a agree that film making has changed. In one vid I made there was a 45 second shot.... a lot happened in it and the music was good, the light was perfect ..... but in the real world of youtube a shot is now two seconds.  

Framing is an interesting subject. I try to keep a bit of the boat in the shot so the field of view is deliberatly restricted. The early films were 4 x 3 as opposed to 16 x 9. A wide angle lense for filming at sea is all but useless I think.

Then there  is the  technology  people are watching on. My youtube stats tell me that over the years the viewing platform has also changed.  In the early days it was DVDs on a big telly with telly speakers..... then it moved to  desktops and desk speakers which is what it was mixed for.... Laptops started to become more important but they have faded to insignificance and now the vast majority of views  are on smartphones or tablets and listened to on headphones or ear buds. 

I am always thinking about how to make it worthwhile making them and giving them away. I could probably get some free gear but I  have loads of that. Moorings, marinas and car costs are the main costs involved in making the films. The camera gear prices  and bandwidth have fallen dramaticallly

In essence I agree that  there are a loads and loads  of much better made films free on youtube. The youtbe sailors  guys are really good at what they do and they look bloody wonderful on camera - washboard stomachs and lovely teeth.. They post every week.... often when they have nothing to say.  The thumbnails are also vital when it comes to hits in a newsfeed. But the algorithm changes all the time - even for the thumbnails.  It knows the difference between a bikini and some foulies.

The youtube revenue stream is pretty pathetic which is why I put my  films  behind a $1 paywall where they  are earning a massively variable £100 a week - it goes up and down a bit depending on the weather. More in winter, less in summer. More at weekends, less during the week.

A polar thrust in feb is good for the revenue.

By removing them from youtube I have restored "the long tail" - to some extrent. Old films are payed for and watched  almost as much as  the newer ones.  I often gert a bloke who is going to sail some-where I have been and he will binge watch a series ...... bringing in maybe $20.

to earn £100 a week  from youtube I would need to be getting around 50,000 views a week and make sure that I did not infringe any copyrights by having any music in them - or the sound of a seagull which was  claimed as copyright by the google algorithm.

 

There is currently a sailing series on youtube about two blokes sailing around the UK - likeable, middle aged brothers.... not as pretty as Sam Holmes or the posh boat building Sampson  man.  The ugly brothers have diligently made and posted  films every week - made on a laptop on the boat while sailing. Big effort on their behalf.

The first ones got around 50,000 views - they are now down to around 8,000 views (worth a musicless $16 or so]. They plead for patreon money a bit.... but not to excess. Not much product placement either although they are both now wearing expensive foulies.

Once their films have been up for a couple of days google slides then them down the news feed algorithm to a score or so hits a day.

I have learned a lot from Sam Holmes and his simple approach to film making ...bish, bash bosh is what we used to  call it.......he is currently getting around 50,000 views per film - worth maybe $200 a film ... depending on the demographic, spending power and use of ad-blockers among his viewers.

I was interested to see how keen people were on following Ajax with his daily reports on his recent east coast USA adventure so I have recentlly been experimenting with making a series of micro-reports made almost in real time on my boat as I sail. No studio voice over, no music, raw sound, no audio editing so it  has to be free of wind-noise.  Each 90 second film starts with a google earth location animation followed by four to six shots edited togther on an android tablet. 

 

In a way it is almost going back to the immediacy of  radio.... but with pictures.

I am at the bottom of a learning curve on this.

Initially I  tried using the android smartphone for filming and editing   but it was really annoying - the  lense and the sound is horrible, so I went back to the big camera but cranked down to HD rather than 4K. I then wirelessly move those to the tablet, chop them togther on there, run a steady de-wobbling app across it  and upload to youtube within 20 minutes of being filmed.

I can do it...and I think that they might build a short duration audience over the three day or so jaunt.   I will then make a more thoughtful longer form version once I get back to the desk at home. It  might drive more traffic to the  piad for films

.. but I do not think there a viable  revenue stream from 10,000 view micro-films.

I am now  retired and the pension has cut in, the kids are  self supporting and I no longer need the money to keep on sailing. 

The engine on the fisher is now more reliable (without having to remove the engine and the fuel tank). The cabin leaks are cured with the help of a few strategically placed dollops of Captain Tolly's and a bit oif an effort re-bedding some of the  stanchion bases.

Dylan

 

PS I do not know if this helps my sailing credibillity in any one's eyes  but I have spent some time sailing around the north sea initially in an 18 footer, then a  22 footer, a couple of 26 footers and more recently a 25 footer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, dylan winter said:

I have learned a lot from Sam Holmes and his simple approach to film making ...bish, bash bosh is what we used to  call it.......he is currently getting around 50,000 views per film - worth maybe $200 a film ... depending on the demographic, spending power and use of ad-blockers among his viewers.

I think that the key to the interest in Sam's videos is that they are different from anyone else's, in a space where now all the sailing-couples' videos are melding together.

Sam is Huck Finn, building and jury-rigging, then quickly setting off to travel. Cobbling stuff together, using 3D printers and duct tape. Sailing around Cape Cod and Cape Hatteras, mostly without issue. He doesn't seem to know what he doesn't know, but that's part of his unique adventure.

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[quote]

I have watched these last few posts with interest

I agree that I should put more effort in......

I also a agree that film making has changed. In one vid I made there was a 45 second shot.... a lot happened in it and the music was good, the light was perfect ..... but in the real world of youtube a shot is now two seconds.  

Framing is an interesting subject. I try to keep a bit of the boat in the shot so the field of view is deliberatly restricted. The early films were 4 x 3 as opposed to 16 x 9. A wide angle lense for filming at sea is all but useless I think.

Then there  is the  technology  people are watching on. My youtube stats tell me that over the years the viewing platform has also changed.  In the early days it was DVDs on a big telly with telly speakers..... then it moved to  desktops and desk speakers which is what it was mixed for.... Laptops started to become more important but they have faded to insignificance and now the vast majority of views  are on smartphones or tablets and listened to on headphones or ear buds. 

I am always thinking about how to make it worthwhile making them and giving them away. I could probably get some free gear but I  have loads of that. Moorings, marinas and car costs are the main costs involved in making the films. The camera gear prices  and bandwidth have fallen dramaticallly

In essence I agree that  there are a loads and loads  of much better made films free on youtube. The youtbe sailors  guys are really good at what they do and they look bloody wonderful on camera - washboard stomachs and lovely teeth.. They post every week.... often when they have nothing to say.  The thumbnails are also vital when it comes to hits in a newsfeed. But the algorithm changes all the time - even for the thumbnails.  It knows the difference between a bikini and some foulies.

The youtube revenue stream is pretty pathetic which is why I put my  films  behind a $1 paywall where they  are earning a massively variable £100 a week - it goes up and down a bit depending on the weather. More in winter, less in summer. More at weekends, less during the week.

A polar thrust in feb is good for the revenue.

By removing them from youtube I have restored "the long tail" - to some extrent. Old films are payed for and watched  almost as much as  the newer ones.  I often gert a bloke who is going to sail some-where I have been and he will binge watch a series ...... bringing in maybe $20.

to earn £100 a week  from youtube I would need to be getting around 50,000 views a week and make sure that I did not infringe any copyrights by having any music in them - or the sound of a seagull which was  claimed as copyright by the google algorithm.

 

There is currently a sailing series on youtube about two blokes sailing around the UK - likeable, middle aged brothers.... not as pretty as Sam Holmes or the posh boat building Sampson  man.  The ugly brothers have diligently made and posted  films every week - made on a laptop on the boat while sailing. Big effort on their behalf.

The first ones got around 50,000 views - they are now down to around 8,000 views (worth a musicless $16 or so]. They plead for patreon money a bit.... but not to excess. Not much product placement either although they are both now wearing expensive foulies.

Once their films have been up for a couple of days google slides then them down the news feed algorithm to a score or so hits a day.

I have learned a lot from Sam Holmes and his simple approach to film making ...bish, bash bosh is what we used to  call it.......he is currently getting around 50,000 views per film - worth maybe $200 a film ... depending on the demographic, spending power and use of ad-blockers among his viewers.

I was interested to see how keen people were on following Ajax with his daily reports on his recent east coast USA adventure so I have recentlly been experimenting with making a series of micro-reports made almost in real time on my boat as I sail. No studio voice over, no music, raw sound, no audio editing so it  has to be free of wind-noise.  Each 90 second film starts with a google earth location animation followed by four to six shots edited togther on an android tablet. 

 

In a way it is almost going back to the immediacy of  radio.... but with pictures.

I am at the bottom of a learning curve on this.

Initially I  tried using the android smartphone for filming and editing   but it was really annoying - the  lense and the sound is horrible, so I went back to the big camera but cranked down to HD rather than 4K. I then wirelessly move those to the tablet, chop them togther on there, run a steady de-wobbling app across it  and upload to youtube within 20 minutes of being filmed.

I can do it...and I think that they might build a short duration audience over the three day or so jaunt.   I will then make a more thoughtful longer form version once I get back to the desk at home. It  might drive more traffic to the  piad for films

.. but I do not think there a viable  revenue stream from 10,000 view micro-films.

I am now  retired and the pension has cut in, the kids are  self supporting and I no longer need the money to keep on sailing. 

The engine on the fisher is now more reliable (without having to remove the engine and the fuel tank). The cabin leaks are cured with the help of a few strategically placed dollops of Captain Tolly's and a bit oif an effort re-bedding some of the  stanchion bases.

Dylan

[/quote]

 

Thanks for the thoughtful post dylan!

Couple of points, the views per video might not be the right metric. It seems to be more your subscriber count. I know from the horses mouth that over 100k means 2k per month from ads. Double that with patreon etc. for reference that means you are at the top 20 of sailing youtubers

also not sure what you mean by wide angle being useless at sea. All focal lengths have their uses but part of the reason that gopros (ultra wide) are popular is that they make it easy to see what’s going on and have a taking head in the shot. Also image stabilisation is not as critical  

important to be intentional about what you are using imo

A full frame dslr and a 24-70 can be a good compromise as you can from wide to portrait 

Wide angles also make smaller boats look bigger 

keep on making and don’t let criticism get you down ;-)

 

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I have never been a fan of wide-angle perspective, although it is useful indoors. I especially hate the fish-eye perspective of a GoPro...curved horizons are just wrong (unless you are in the stratosphere or higher). A GoPro on the backstay is just lazy. I don't mind a GoPro shot underwater but I am not a fan of a lot of the contrived "I'm swimming underwater!...look at my keel!...now I'm surfacing!!!" style of shooting. Nor am I a fan of excessive drone shots. Dylan's way of telling the story is skillful and stylish without resorting to bells, whistles and whiz-bangs. The benchmark for me is an old film by a Quebec circumnavigator, Yves Gélinas who filmed Jean de Sud Autour du Monde  on a wind-up 16mm Bolex with audio captured on a synched Nagra tape recorder. You had to know what you were doing to get a good shot. Most of the YouTube videographers are well below this level of competency. Yes, I am an old bloke with old bloke tastes.

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I use a wide angle 10-20 Canon(pretty good quality) on my DSLR, quite a bit.

 

But it's tricky and not without it's compromises. Maybe vid wide (which I have no experience) lens have built in correction. 

 

You get a lot of distortion, especially around the edges of the frame. And catching a person in one. especially out of the center, could end a friendship or marriage. 

 

But they can make a shoebox sized head look cavernous. I usually take some of the distortion out in Lightroom. But that crops away quite a bit of the image. 

534686892_Headwideangle(1of1).thumb.jpg.40f0ce879c5b5072fdd5f0621bc305bb.jpg

However, on my iphone 11 wide angle, I find the video useful. In this video I cut from regular lens to wide angle about 20 seconds in, to  show more of the surroundings. I liked it and didn't mind the step. But I'm not a videographer. 

 

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1 hour ago, Jim in Halifax said:

I have never been a fan of wide-angle perspective, although it is useful indoors. I especially hate the fish-eye perspective of a GoPro...curved horizons are just wrong (unless you are in the stratosphere or higher). A GoPro on the backstay is just lazy. I don't mind a GoPro shot underwater but I am not a fan of a lot of the contrived "I'm swimming underwater!...look at my keel!...now I'm surfacing!!!" style of shooting. Nor am I a fan of excessive drone shots. Dylan's way of telling the story is skillful and stylish without resorting to bells, whistles and whiz-bangs. The benchmark for me is an old film by a Quebec circumnavigator, Yves Gélinas who filmed Jean de Sud Autour du Monde  on a wind-up 16mm Bolex with audio captured on a synched Nagra tape recorder. You had to know what you were doing to get a good shot. Most of the YouTube videographers are well below this level of competency. Yes, I am an old bloke with old bloke tastes.

if i'm not mistaken, Yves sent that camera up under a kite and actually took "drone shots"

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Yeah, the iPhone 11 main cam is about 24mm ff equivalent. It’s a good general purpose focal length for video. The “telephoto” is 50mm equiv i believe. The GoPro is about 16mm.

jean du sud was filmed on 16mm film stock, but the shots look wideish to me, 24-35 mm lenses maybe? 

If I were filming something important I would try to splash out on two mirrorless full frame camera bodies (for the image stabilisation), one with a 24-70 f2.8 or a 35 prime, the other with some wide angle zoom like the Nikon Z 14-30 f4 

GoPros are ugly but you don’t have much choice in many practical situations, eg underwater. 

Round it off with a Sony Handycam for zoom shots etc. 

of course the cumulative cost of this gear would be more than my boat ;-)

Or filming night passages with the new Noct - now that would be a good use of lottery winnings !

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