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42 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

We never keep ketchup in the fridge. They probably know that, though.

Hmm....improperly stored condiments might send you to the clinic. (the Mayo clinic).I wouldn't relish that experience. 

 

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On 1/9/2022 at 1:20 PM, Kris Cringle said:

I don't subscribe to any of the sailing Youtube channels. I see enough bits and pieces posted here and little has drawn my interest. 

I don't  know where Dylan has gone to but I was delighted to see much of his work posted on his Youtube channel.

His simple, clear crisp portrayal of sailing is worlds above the bulk of Youtube sailing. The content is the sailing and the places. He tries to stay out of the picture but in fact he is of equal interest in the work. 

Dylan makes simple modest sailboats sing on the water and his appreciation of sailing comes from decades of doing just that.

His commentary is back which is delightful to listen to. Well choosen words, no more than are needed.

This work takes work.

I am pleased to say that I now have three sponsors - two corporate and one philanthropic in nature. The three of them have undertaken to cover  all my marina, car costs  and boat repairs until the project is done.

 they will almost never be named in the content.

So this summer I will be heading back to the hebs coutresy of three excellent organisations.

Weirdly enough now that all the films are free on youtube people have started buying the vimeo versions. The web is a strange  place

but the taps will be used to  pay for converting the fisher.

Dylan

 

 

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1 hour ago, dylan winter said:

I am pleased to say that I now have three sponsors - two corporate and one philanthropic in nature. The three of them have undertaken to cover  all my marina, car costs  and boat repairs until the project is done.

 they will almost never be named in the content.

So this summer I will be heading back to the hebs coutresy of three excellent organisations.

Dylan, this is great news!

I had been really hoping that something like that would happen, because your KTL videos are unique and wonderful mini-documentaries, a true public service.   Whoever is sponsoring your work has made a wise choice.

Are you gonna convert the Fisher to 48 volt propulsion?   Or just 48v ancilliaries?

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9 minutes ago, dylan winter said:

propulsion

10kw

 

 

Hmmm.

Doesn't like fettling so decides not to do a thorough job of cleaning out diesel tanks.

Then decides to swap out a diesel engine for a battery-electric drive.

B)

Can't find the popcorn emoticon...

FKT

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7 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Hmmm.

Doesn't like fettling so decides not to do a thorough job of cleaning out diesel tanks.

Then decides to swap out a diesel engine for a battery-electric drive.

B)

Can't find the popcorn emoticon...

FKT

diesel bug has been vanquished

please believe me

the engine is now reliable,, .....

 

but still smelling  dieselly.

because

It is inside the cabin with me and it is 20 years old.

the gearbox is also using oil which finds its way into the bilges - so the engine has to come out to fix the gearbox.

the whole shooting match has to  to leave via the wheelhouse and sliding door.

 

I am not sure I am prepared to put it back.

 

 

 

and...

 

 

I feel bad about the carbon.....

 

Dylan

D

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1 hour ago, dylan winter said:

I am pleased to say that I now have three sponsors - two corporate and one philanthropic in nature. The three of them have undertaken to cover  all my marina, car costs  and boat repairs until the project is done.

 they will almost never be named in the content.

So this summer I will be heading back to the hebs coutresy of three excellent organisations.

Weirdly enough now that all the films are free on youtube people have started buying the vimeo versions. The web is a strange  place

but the taps will be used to  pay for converting the fisher.

Dylan

 

 

I'm so glad to hear this! This has been a couple tough years for many but also good fortune to some of us. This sounds like it will turn into an exciting project. 

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1 hour ago, dylan winter said:

diesel bug has been vanquished

please believe me

the engine is now reliable,, .....

 

but still smelling  dieselly.

because

It is inside the cabin with me and it is 20 years old.

the gearbox is also using oil which finds its way into the bilges - so the engine has to come out to fix the gearbox.

the whole shooting match has to  to leave via the wheelhouse and sliding door.

 

I am not sure I am prepared to put it back.

 

 

 

and...

 

 

I feel bad about the carbon.....

 

Dylan

D

Lotta work but depending on your use-case, could work out very nicely.

I'd like an electric drive myself for all the reasons you say (except the carbon thing but I own 600 acres of carbon sink & have hydro power so don't care a lot) I just know that for my use-case, it simply won't work.

FKT

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5 hours ago, dylan winter said:

propulsion

10kw

Great!  Electric propulsion should be a lot less stinky, and a lot more quiet.

I do wonder where you will get the angry pixies from to fill your batteries.  The Fisher is too slow under sail for significant regen, has little space for solar panels, and the Hebrides doesn't quite have tropical levels of sun.

Yer nobody's fool, so I am sure that you have it all worked out.  I am just curious to know what the plan is.

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2 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

Great!  Electric propulsion should be a lot less stinky, and a lot more quiet.

I do wonder where you will get the angry pixies from to fill your batteries.  The Fisher is too slow under sail for significant regen, has little space for solar panels, and the Hebrides doesn't quite have tropical levels of sun.

Yer nobody's fool, so I am sure that you have it all worked out.  I am just curious to know what the plan is.

A really long extension cord.

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5 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

Great!  Electric propulsion should be a lot less stinky, and a lot more quiet.

I do wonder where you will get the angry pixies from to fill your batteries.  The Fisher is too slow under sail for significant regen, has little space for solar panels, and the Hebrides doesn't quite have tropical levels of sun.

Yer nobody's fool, so I am sure that you have it all worked out.  I am just curious to know what the plan is.

Jill has rebelled against the smell of the diesel... I had not appreciated the difference between having an engine in the cabin and having one outside under the cockpit.  I found myself cleaning the engine with a toothbrush -  which  surprised me.

the smell will go away to be replaced with degreaser or washing up liquid but as soon as the engine fires up, runs at temperature for an hour or so then I am back to the smell of a  warm garage.

I will also not have to turn off the engine when I want to turn on the camera which will be nice.

You make a good point - the main point - about shoving fairies back into the batteries

I have enough funds for a marina berth   ... the dunstaffnage berth is about £250 a month...... so that is one place to plug in - an extension lead from the pontoon dock.

I will have two/four  100 watt deplyable solar panels that I can keep in the quarter berth.... 18 hours of daylight in the summer. The boat has plenty of options for placing them.

I am also considering a modest demountable wind turbine - the noise will drive me mad if I am aboard but it would only be  mounted when I am off the boat.

The maths on both those sources is pretty horrible with 14kw 48 volt system unless the boat is left for a week or more. 

I will also have a suitcase quiet  generator - I have 2kw but am prepared to buy a 4kw as a range extender and charger.

Both are quieter  and less smelly than the diesel and I only intend using it/them when the other three are not enough. I will be changing the way I saiil and  will have to yield more to the conditions.

Finally I will still have the Tohatsu on the stern for long flat calm slogs. That pushes the boat at 4.5 knots through flat water  A tank of fuel at half speed lasts all day - but if I need to motor all day then I am doing it  wrong.

I think 10kw (14hp)  via the electric prop  deep under the boat will give me power for getting through tidal races etc - if it is calm enough I can fire up  the Tohatsu to add that as well to the 14kw electric  .... giving me a nominal 20hp -  but I doubt that it will be necessary.

the tidal races seldom run at more than 4 knots and if I am defying the power of the solar system then I am doing it wrong.  I sailed in Scotland for four summers and two winters......there is seldom no wind and no tide....

I reckon there were only two occasions when the diesel got me home against the odds slogging along with the wind and waves on the nose for hours on end .....but I was rushing for work rather than waiting for another 24/48 hours for it to  blow through.

I have discovered that the Fisher 25  motor sails surprisingly well.  I have been using a 110 lb thrust 12 volt  trolling motor on it while under sail - just for experiments..  It really gets the apparent wind going. and with the two bermuden sails deployed and sheeted in she is quite close winded. Short tacking under sail and engine works pretty well

In the "boy me and the cat" they have a 1.5 hp engine in the dinghy cleeted to the stern quarter  which he called a "kicker". It gave a tiny bit of forward motion for steerage, a bit of apparent wind and help in getting the stern round when tight tacking up channels.  Until I started experimenting with low power I did not really appreciate how well it works.

The 6hp Tohatsu on just over tickover - which I cannot really hear when in the cabin  - also  turns a 3 knot fetch or reach into a five knot fetch. In flat water at high revs it gets me 4.5 knots - but all day 3.5  knots is achievable.   A following sea might drown it.... but it will not be running then.

Most importantly I am now retired  so I will not be rushing to get some-where so that I can dump the boat and dash  off home for paid  work.

I can sit and wait for a blow to pass through drinking whisky and reading in my diesel odour  free cabin..... there are thousands of  excellent hidey holes all over the hebs and pretty good phone  and data connections now  so no more guessing about the weather. There are small marinas with power all over the place as well.

In port I will use an induction hob and fan heater but when in an anchorage I  will continue to cook on meths, I have an origo heat pal and will convert the diesel taylor to paraffin for the really cold nights. 

The main difference between the last time I was up there and now is that I will have a marina berth so I can run back to power and Prius when the weather turns on me.

So, the bloke from here,

https://lightningcraft.co.uk/conversion-kits

which is just up river from me   is coming to see the boat next week.

I will initially run 4 x 12 volt lead acids which will work well with the syyiutcase generators until I get the hang of power usage and then see about lithium Ion - but those will nearly double the cost of the installation.

I will run the diesel engine for a couple of months this winter  up and down the  coast and make some honest clips about the temperature, oil use etc on the volvo engine and then see if I can sell if for enough to cover the cost of removing it and preparing the engine bed for the new unit.. The engine is in good nick, sounds fine, uses no oil. The gearbox has a slow leak. No diesel bug anymore. The Universal joint will also need replacing.

I also need legs for the boat because the bloody thing falls over when the tide goes out

Dylan

3.png

 

 

 

 

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@dylan winter, that sounds like a set of very good reasons for the changeover, and a very good plan for making it work for you.  Personally, I share Jill's objections to the noisy stinky thing, so I am glad that you have listened to her.

It seems to me that most of the case for a diesel is due to unwillingness to wait for suitable weather.  So your willingness to sit and wait for a blow to pass through drinking whisky and reading is probably the key factor in making this work.

I am sure that the well-meaning diesel fans will pray for your soul, as you endure the horror of sitting in the warmth of  a non-stinky cabin drinking whisky in stunning scenery.  Such suffering for your art ;) 

However, I do wonder about the wisdom of starting off with a set of FLAs.  They are cheaper than LiFePo, but still expensive enough to make discarding them a non-trivial expense.  Also, they will probably need a different controller to the one you will need for the LiFePos, so that's another expensive discard.   Wouldn't it make more sense to rob a few banks and go straight to lithium?

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2 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

@dylan winter, that sounds like a set of very good reasons for the changeover, and a very good plan for making it work for you.  Personally, I share Jill's objections to the noisy stinky thing, so I am glad that you have listened to her.

It seems to me that most of the case for a diesel is due to unwillingness to wait for suitable weather.  So your willingness to sit and wait for a blow to pass through drinking whisky and reading is probably the key factor in making this work.

I am sure that the well-meaning diesel fans will pray for your soul, as you endure the horror of sitting in the warmth of  a non-stinky cabin drinking whisky in stunning scenery.  Such suffering for your art ;) 

However, I do wonder about the wisdom of starting off with a set of FLAs.  They are cheaper than LiFePo, but still expensive enough to make discarding them a non-trivial expense.  Also, they will probably need a different controller to the one you will need for the LiFePos, so that's another expensive discard.   Wouldn't it make more sense to rob a few banks and go straight to lithium?

The deep cycle lead acid batteries will be recycled when they die..... as they will.

so I am happy that the lead will be put around the circle again rather than polluting the local waters. .  The local recycling centre takes them for freemans.

The controllers and chargers for lead acid are cheaper/simpler  than lifepo. I can use the same charger for shorepower and when using the generator. The lead acids will also be simpler than lifepos with the use of a range extending generator - using them as a sponge to even out the power. But I hope I will not be using this option that often.

Battery technology is shifting really fast as capacity rises  and prices are falling  so the cost of lifepos is likely to fall as well - especially once  the newer lighter denser chemistry comes along and finds its way into cars. Then they will be discounting the lithium batts.

I also do not know how much power I will need so parking that decison with lead acid for a while will be useful.

I will see what Josh from Lightening Craft says when he comes to see the boat.

D

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I see the logic in that, but suggest a few caveats.  

Yes, battery chemistry is improving and prices are falling, but I am not sure how fast.  You may have quite a wait for a significant change in the price and the energy density.  Or maybe not; it's hard to predict how fast this stuff trickles down into a secondary market.  Until recently, cars used LiCo rather than LiFePo, but the latest Tesla Model Ys are using LiFePo in the lower-range versions.  No idea how that will impact price.

Using a Honda suitcase generator as a range-booster is a good idea.  However, beware that those generators have a limited life. I had a Honda EU10i which I burnt out after only about 1000 hours use, despite oil changes per the schedule.  It turns out that those generators lack a cylinder liner, so are known to have a short life than the equivalent Yamaha, which has a cylinder liner.  The two-cylinder EU22i may be more robust, but some research would be a good idea.

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2 hours ago, dylan winter said:

I will have two/four  100 watt deplyable solar panels that I can keep in the quarter berth.... 18 hours of daylight in the summer. The boat has plenty of options for placing them.

I tried that last year. One 120W panel was enough for the boats electronics and to keep phones/tablets charged. The boat wasn't hooked into shore power at all for the whole season. It did get sketchy in autumn, tho.

I still want to switch to a fixed panel. The problem for me with the deployable panel was that it was easiest to get out when there is no sun, and I wanted it stowed away during the day while sailing.

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7 minutes ago, mathystuff said:

I tried that last year. One 120W panel was enough for the boats electronics and to keep phones/tablets charged. The boat wasn't hooked into shore power at all for the whole season. It did get sketchy in autumn, tho.

I still want to switch to a fixed panel. The problem for me with the deployable panel was that it was easiest to get out when there is no sun, and I wanted it stowed away during the day while sailing.

My usual pattern is one week on, one week off. So putting up two solar panels and a wind turbine before leaving the boat at  anchor might get me some-way towards restoring 50 per cent depleted 4 x 12 volt batteries. However, at best they might add in a day what the genset will add in an hour.

My live-aboard son had panels on his canal boat roof. They kept his fridge and kettle going pretty well through 8 months of the year. But they were big and seldom shaded.

It will be an interesting learning curve for the Fisher though.

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3 hours ago, dylan winter said:

I also need legs for the boat because the bloody thing falls over when the tide goes out

Dylan

 

Dylan - congrats on the new gig.  Generous patrons are the way to go.  Hmmm...you’ve given me an idea... :-)

Are serious about drying legs for the boat?  That would give you real versatility - although not terribly unusual to have in places with large tidal ranges, I do wonder how a boat would fair in any sort of weather?  Meaning, I see them as a utilitarian thing for occasional planned use, to clean the bottom, etc., not for regular use drying out between tides when you are far up a river/on a coast.  (If one did find themselves on a cruise, dried out somewhere beteeen tides, and big blow came through, I wonder how the boat would fare?). Anyway, curious to hear more about your plan to set these up.

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If no one has pointed these guys out yet, then worth a watch. Beautifully filmed, (he's a pro filmmaker)

and although I'm biased cos it starts in Scotland, they are soon off across the atlantic.

Worth your time....

http://<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dxNRDjKzs08" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

https://youtu.be/dxNRDjKzs08

 

and as usual, I cannot get it to embed, fucking hell. Just try the link :)

 

 

 

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@dylan winter As an electric propulsion and renewables enthusiast, I'm excited about the project but I do question specifically your pursuit of this conversion for one reason only-

Unlike many of us here, you frequently buy and sell boats. You don't get attached to them or keep them, the boats are more of a "means to an end" that allows you to fulfill a particular filming mission.  What I'm sayin is, Is it really worth pursuing the conversion if you're going to cast off the Fischer once the Scotland filming mission is complete? Or are you going to hold onto this boat for a longer period of time to make it worth it?

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I am 66 now.... I should have another decade of winter sailing. The Fisher is the best bird hide I have ever had.

However

I spent a fair slice of this past year hanging upside down in the engine well under the wheelhouse.

I replaced several fuel filters and two oil filters plus the impeller x 2.... and the water trap requires floor boards coming up.

Endless oil checks .... every journey begins with the floor up.

These are not the happiest moments of a year afloat

I am certain  I will not want to be doing too much of that once my knees are a decade older so this boat will be with me until I am a danger to myself.

There is great comfort to know that you could run the diesel engine for 36 hours without stopping....

But it would not be a nice 36 hours.

I am sure there will be regrets....

But there is much I will not miss about the diesel... smell, pollution  changing filters, impellers, oil Che ks, water Checks, turning off the intake, turning turning it back on, lugging diesel around .

D

 

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2 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Dylan - congrats on the new gig.  Generous patrons are the way to go.  Hmmm...you’ve given me an idea... :-)

Are serious about drying legs for the boat?  That would give you real versatility - although not terribly unusual to have in places with large tidal ranges, I do wonder how a boat would fair in any sort of weather?  Meaning, I see them as a utilitarian thing for occasional planned use, to clean the bottom, etc., not for regular use drying out between tides when you are far up a river/on a coast.  (If one did find themselves on a cruise, dried out somewhere beteeen tides, and big blow came through, I wonder how the boat would fare?). Anyway, curious to hear more about your plan to set these up.

the legs are really only for beaching for a scrub in quiet weather and for leaving the boat ashore. I would probably keep them in the shed for most of the time.  The worry with them is not the swell it is going aground where it is so soft that one leg startss to sink.  I would always check the ground at low tide before risking it.

I am confident that the boat coud take the ground, lean over and come up again. I have yet to test this though.

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6 hours ago, dylan winter said:

I found myself cleaning the engine with a toothbrush -  which  surprised me.

Is that an improvement over the bog brush? 

 

 

 

Really happy to hear about the good news and continued voyages. I miss The Slug at times. 

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3 hours ago, dylan winter said:

My usual pattern is one week on, one week off. So putting up two solar panels and a wind turbine before leaving the boat at  anchor might get me some-way towards restoring 50 per cent depleted 4 x 12 volt batteries. However, at best they might add in a day what the genset will add in an hour.

My live-aboard son had panels on his canal boat roof. They kept his fridge and kettle going pretty well through 8 months of the year. But they were big and seldom shaded.

It will be an interesting learning curve for the Fisher though.

I was getting 14V quite often when charging. Pretty sure you will return to full batteries. I never left the panel out while away from the boat as it was in a city harbour last year. In the baltic btw, so just a tad south of you.

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2 hours ago, dylan winter said:

I am 66 now.... I should have another decade of winter sailing. The Fisher is the best bird hide I have ever had.

However

I spent a fair slice of this past year hanging upside down in the engine well under the wheelhouse.

I replaced several fuel filters and two oil filters plus the impeller x 2.... and the water trap requires floor boards coming up.

Endless oil checks .... every journey begins with the floor up.

These are not the happiest moments of a year afloat

I am certain  I will not want to be doing too much of that once my knees are a decade older so this boat will be with me until I am a danger to myself.

There is great comfort to know that you could run the diesel engine for 36 hours without stopping....

But it would not be a nice 36 hours.

I am sure there will be regrets....

But there is much I will not miss about the diesel... smell, pollution  changing filters, impellers, oil Che ks, water Checks, turning off the intake, turning turning it back on, lugging diesel around .

D

 

Ah, I see. If you're hanging on to the Fischer for a longer period it makes much more sense.

I'm sure you've heard the phrase "Those who say it cannot be done, should get out of the way of people who are doing it."  I'll enjoy watching you "do it."

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A quick skim of that video and this just occurred to me: The electric drive will really enhance your 'footage', when you're not sailing.

It will be a real tool to ease your filming. And it's almost a must for your quiet on the water theme.

Sure you'll be sailing the Fisher a lot in your footage (which will be quite a novelty in itself), but everybody expects you to turn the motor on at times.

In a dead calm on flat water such as you often end many of your legs in the videos, the scene should look great to the viewer. 

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On 1/11/2022 at 3:12 AM, TwoLegged said:

However, I do wonder about the wisdom of starting off with a set of FLAs.

my dock neighbor was an early adopter of electric propulsion. and he's got about 6 (or more) FLAs. he's also afraid the leave the slip. I haven't done it myself - so my understanding may be limited - but my thought is that its the battery technology that makes an electric drive possible. not the motor.

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9 minutes ago, floater said:

my dock neighbor was an early adopter of electric propulsion. and he's got about 6 (or more) FLAs. he's also afraid the leave the slip. I haven't done it myself - so my understanding may be limited - but my thought is that its the battery technology that makes an electric drive possible. not the motor.

Yeah, I hate to say this but FLA's will be a disappointment and just force an upgrade later. The voltage droop when heavily loaded is just aggravating.  I experienced this when I converted a 70's VW Beetle to electric drive and even now, when I putter about in my dinghy with trolling motor.  I'm not saying that he needs to go full "Battle Born" Lithium but some decent AGMs that can supply high current without damage would be nice.

If Dylan can avoid discharging them too deeply and avoid drawing on them too hard, he'll be ok for awhile.

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9 minutes ago, MauiPunter said:

I say bite the bullet and get the Lithium battery.  You will be happier.

All three sponsors have to agree to any expenditure.

I understand they meet every second thursday in the bar at their London Club.  KTL is discusssed before an excellent luncheon at Simpsons.

Dylan.

 

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3 hours ago, dylan winter said:

All three sponsors have to agree to any expenditure.

I understand they meet every second thursday in the bar at their London Club.  KTL is discusssed before an excellent luncheon at Simpsons.

Dylan.

 

Excellent.  Hopefully prudent minds will prevail.  ;)

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18 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

I say bite the bullet and get the Lithium battery.  You will be happier.

Hell, even Firefly AGMs would be better.

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18 hours ago, dylan winter said:

All three sponsors have to agree to any expenditure.

I understand they meet every second thursday in the bar at their London Club.  KTL is discusssed before an excellent luncheon at Simpsons.

Dylan.

 

This sounds like Phileas Fogg, meeting at the Reform Club to discuss your fate over a game of Whist. Will your be bringing your valet, Passepartout?

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22 hours ago, Ajax said:

Yeah, I hate to say this but FLA's will be a disappointment and just force an upgrade later. The voltage droop when heavily loaded is just aggravating.  I experienced this when I converted a 70's VW Beetle to electric drive and even now, when I putter about in my dinghy with trolling motor.  I'm not saying that he needs to go full "Battle Born" Lithium but some decent AGMs that can supply high current without damage would be nice.

If Dylan can avoid discharging them too deeply and avoid drawing on them too hard, he'll be ok for awhile.

Ten gazillion golf carts have other ideas. ;) I've run a 60-hr a week cabinet shop off FLAs for 18 years. Lithiums are objectively better energy storage, and for cases where weight and bulk are concerns (hand tools, cars, many boats, possibly not Fishers), lithium is prohibitively better. Dollar-per-lifetime-amp-hour cost? Bet FLAs are still narrowly ahead. Not for long, perhaps. Capital outlay difference is staggering, tho. Again, that may change in the near future.

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3 minutes ago, Diarmuid said:

Ten gazillion golf carts have other ideas. ;) I've run a 60-hr a week cabinet shop off FLAs for 18 years. Lithiums are objectively better energy storage, and for cases where weight and bulk are concerns (hand tools, cars, many boats, possibly not Fishers), lithium is prohibitively better. Dollar-per-lifetime-amp-hour cost? Bet FLAs are still narrowly ahead. Not for long, perhaps. Capital outlay difference is staggering, tho. Again, that may change in the near future.

Fisheries supply now carrying an american-designed lithium for $900/100AH.   And we know 100AH of lithium is equiv to about 180 of FLA.  Also, setting up a new system, at least lithium proof it with an appropriate charging system....  Might not be available at that cost in the UK. Victrons still quite a bit more. 

 

In the Fisher, while maybe not as weight sensitive (and engine/fuel going away saves a lot of weight) is there space for a large FLA bank?  Maybe where that annoying fuel tank is?

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So still 5x the cost of two Group 27s. And with propulsion (versus house loads), you really need quite a lot of capacity: [email protected] VDC would be a minimum size to my mind. So that drives the weight and bulk up with FLAs, but the lithium cost differential also diverges awfully. (Our home/shop battery bank is +/- 3000lbs and [email protected] (20 hr rate). It replaces 8000lbs of lead calcium telecoms, 700lbs each, with a probable 7-8000Ah. Those lived for 26 total years -- 13 easy years before we bought them, 13 hard years after.)

Very much agree any new electric propulsion system should be designed with future LiFePo upgrade in mind. Splurge now for the high-current cabling, for instance.

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4 hours ago, Ajax said:

Hell, even Firefly AGMs would be better.

my understanding is FLA can be discharged about 40% or so. an AGM better, but just 50%. And lithium something like 90 or 95%. So lithium really the thing for an electric boat given the form factor.

I looked into this recently when putting together an off-grid system. And arrived at the same conclusion as Diarmid above. I've got FLAs because the capital expense of lithium either jaw-dropping or breath-taking depending on your mood. But - given their lifetime - they theoretically pencil out as less expensive in the long run.

AGMs turn out to be something of a boondoggle. I've got a pair on my boat. And I think they make sense for boats. But they don't really pencil out in terms of cost/lifetime/power output for a serious installation. just my 2c.

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16 minutes ago, Diarmuid said:

They seem nice.

Yes. Maybe the three-year-old mission of 'round the world has changed to return trips to Catalina and Santa Cruz. But it's a nice vibe and Cheoy Lee is pleasant to look at. :)

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8 minutes ago, Israel Hands said:

Yes. Maybe the three-year-old mission of 'round the world has changed to return trips to Catalina and Santa Cruz. But it's a nice vibe and Cheoy Lee is pleasant to look at. :)

She most certainly is. The boat. A real stunner.

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@dylan winter How about a solar powered tug boat?

Funny songs too.  

"Sailing out upon the lake almost swamped by big boat wake, rich people trying to flex, but their boats can't self direct.  

As he passed the nice big yachts, the bikini babes were looking hot, he started to feel like a dork, his confidence did waver.

Then again those big boat owners did risk suffering from foreclosure"

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On 12/15/2021 at 7:17 PM, savoir said:

Does anyone know what's going on with LV ?  I thought they sold the cat and moved off but now they are back on it.  What gives ?

My guess is that their ratings started to dip, the tri wasn't ready, and they knew they had to get back on the water (and Elayna back into a bikini) or lose their substantial audience. Never mess with your brand.

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This is a great review of a custom Rival 32' by a dyed in the wool - single hander.

It's amazing how luxurious a cramped old sailboat design can be for an experienced solo sailor. 

I'll never understand Webb Chiles (although this guy has similar suicidal quirks - see coal heater). 

 

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23 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

This is a great review of a custom Rival 32' by a dyed in the wool - single hander.

It's amazing how luxurious a cramped old sailboat design can be for an experienced solo sailor. 

I'll never understand Webb Chiles (although this guy has similar suicidal quirks - see coal heater). 

 

There we go - twin poles and a windvane.  Does he talk about how he runs it single handed? 

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7 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

I'll never understand Webb Chiles (although this guy has similar suicidal quirks - see coal heater). 

Having met him, I'll say that Webb is certainly "different."  He doesn't/didn't circumnavigate repeatedly just to do it, he intentionally sought to experience it in different ways. That's why he chose all those different boats. He really did gravitate towards small and simple though, no doubt about it.

Size-wise, 30+ feet with the right hardware and controls layout is great. Easily manageable, enough living space. On the other hand, I learned that my boat is kind of light in displacement for offshore work and the Rival isn't much better.  I got tossed around a lot where a heavier boat might have had a more comfortable motion.  I learned what that "motion comfort index" really means. :rolleyes: (Yeah I know, it's very unscientific)

A Tayana 37 by comparison is 22.5k, over twice the displacement but only 3 feet longer LOA than my boat. Might be a more comfortable ride. The most important thing (in my opinion), is to get the boat handling controls as central and as ergonomic as possible.

Anyway, as they say- All boats are compromises. The compromise I make is owning a smaller, less expensive boat that is well equipped and better in light air in exchange for a rougher ride in rougher conditions.

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At 4:44, I love how the galley space on the Rival is almost a separate compartment. That's pretty neat. You'll notice the fire blanket mounted on the bulkhead near the galley stove. I've advocated for these several times. 

Hm... he stores a lot of crap up forward. I know he's not racing but it might make the boat sail less well. Yeah, he admits that he's gassing himself with the coal stove. Dunno how he's going to circumnavigate as a centurion if he does that.

The drawings don't do the Rival justice. The boat looks much better in person, sailing, maneuvering. 

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58 minutes ago, Elegua said:

There we go - twin poles and a windvane.  Does he talk about how he runs it single handed? 

A bit but he's done alot of single handed oceans miles. It's more about this custom Rival 32 design that he knows very little about but thinks it's a perfect design for the single hander. 

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38 minutes ago, Ajax said:

At 4:44, I love how the galley space on the Rival is almost a separate compartment. That's pretty neat. You'll notice the fire blanket mounted on the bulkhead near the galley stove. I've advocated for these several times. 

Hm... he stores a lot of crap up forward. I know he's not racing but it might make the boat sail less well. Yeah, he admits that he's gassing himself with the coal stove. Dunno how he's going to circumnavigate as a centurion if he does that.

The drawings don't do the Rival justice. The boat looks much better in person, sailing, maneuvering. 

I agree, the Rival shows much better on the vid. I was impressed with below decks and the super wide side decks. He emphasizes the beauty of the simple layout below, the lack of built ins giving below decks a spacious feel in a really small 32'er (compared to newer boats). Face it, he doesn't need the vee berth at all so he stuffs that so he can keep an uncluttered deck and house. He lives aboard the boat. 

On the weird side: A wife who lives onshore (call me old fashioned), a family who says, "Yeah dad, go around the world for the next 10 years" , and to top it off, he doesn't pay attention to a sons concern about CO with the coal stove. Fek the CO detector, oh,... and doctors! 

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36 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

On the weird side: A wife who lives onshore (call me old fashioned), a family who says, "Yeah dad, go around the world for the next 10 years" , and to top it off, he doesn't pay attention to a sons concern about CO with the coal stove. Fek the CO detector, oh,... and doctors! 

It's a tough thing when not everyone shares the dream and if someone really has that kind of dream it's best to let go and let them follow it.  The CO things is silly, but convincing eccentric older menpeople to do things they don't want is an exercise in futility. 

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1 hour ago, Kris Cringle said:

On the weird side: A wife who lives onshore (call me old fashioned), a family who says, "Yeah dad, go around the world for the next 10 years" , and to top it off, he doesn't pay attention to a sons concern about CO with the coal stove. Fek the CO detector, oh,... and doctors! 

Yes, I switched off when he started talking about his "natural health preparation" that, he reckons, will keep him going until the age of 118.

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Yeah, I think he's attributing lucky genetics and a predisposition to be active to his natural health regimen. He's lucky and healthy but he doesn't realize why.

As for the Rival, let's remember that what he's showing isn't the normal layout. It appears to be a one-off. 

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5 minutes ago, Ajax said:

As for the Rival, let's remember that what he's showing isn't the normal layout. It appears to be a one-off. 

It's actually very close to a standard Rival 32.  The only difference I can see is that it has the two settee berths rather than stbd settee and port l-shaped dinette.

That galley/chart table area all looks basically standard, complete with the gorgeous Rival signature  feature of a keyhole-shaped bulkhead fwd of the galley.

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I really like keyhole bulkheads. They remind me of being in a hobbit house. 

tbf boats are like babies; everyone believes one’s own to be more beautiful than anyone elses

i must check out his health regimen. Don’t knock it till u have tried it 

he should just get a diesel heater tho 

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On the topic of his heater, the CO leaks are probably just shoddy installation or corrosion holes in the flu. A diesel heater could kill you too, if it's not installed or vented properly.

Also, if he's using a dirt house CO detector it will be too sensitive for the small volume of a boat cabin. He should splurge for a marine CO detector and see what happens.

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2 hours ago, Ajax said:

Also, if he's using a dirt house CO detector it will be too sensitive for the small volume of a boat cabin. He should splurge for a marine CO detector and see what happens.

This. One of the first things I did was fit a combined CO/flammable gas sniffer once I'd decided on a Dickinson diesel heater and LPG stove.

FKT

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 I don't get it.  Sure, concentration is a function of volume, but concentration is what kills you. Concentration is concentration afoot or afloat.  (Actually partial pressure but...) The last one I had actually gave a readout in ppm, but that one expired. FWIW I have a "marine" one now.  The main difference seems to be the power supply.  

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On 1/8/2022 at 6:49 PM, TwoLegged said:

By contrast, Dan & Kika come across as multi-dimensional humans, who actually have more than one mood.

I like Kika and the places they go and their filming. But I can’t stand Dan. Can’t stand his voice and he’s like a lot of these smug guys that just blabbers at the camera on and on. 

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2 hours ago, toddster said:

 I don't get it.  Sure, concentration is a function of volume, but concentration is what kills you. Concentration is concentration afoot or afloat.  (Actually partial pressure but...) The last one I had actually gave a readout in ppm, but that one expired. FWIW I have a "marine" one now.  The main difference seems to be the power supply.  

Annoyingly few advertise what PPM they trigger at, some trigger very low, like 25PPM, others trigger at a higher PPM.   You can guesstimate your CO level based on how long since the CO leaking appliance was turned on:

  • If the Alarm is exposed to 400 ppm of CO, IT MUST ALARM BETWEEN 4 and 15 MINUTES 
  • If the Alarm is exposed to 150 ppm of CO, IT MUST ALARM BETWEEN 10 and 50 MINUTES. 
  • If the Alarm is exposed to 70 ppm of CO, IT MUST ALARM BETWEEN 60 and 240 MINUTES. 

 

Note* Approximately 10% COHb exposure at levels of 10% to 95% Relative Humidity (RH). The unit is designed not to alarm when exposed to a constant level of 30 ppm for 30 days. 

 

 

My favourite is the NEST combined CO/Smoke alarm.  3 reasons.

1.  spoken audio alerts, where the alarm is going off first is valuable, and it calls it out via the whole system both what is being detected, and where it started.

2.  It can be connected to wifi and notify remotely.

3.  It tells you what the levels are(rising, falling, etc) 

Can't remember if I posted here or not, but it uses the COSH type detection cell some others do but I now know this one does.  This cell triggers on H2S as well.  Without that alarm just chucked on a shelf because I found it in a box of stuff, I might not have a boat.  

Got a phone call the alarm was going off, and the boat smelled like sewage.  Took me a while after getting there to clue in to what I might be smelling and get the hell out pulling the shore power on the way.   After ventilation, sure enough, that sewage smell was H2S, and the battery bank had gotten hot enough to melt some terminals and some cable ends.  

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9 hours ago, loneshark64 said:

I like Kika and the places they go and their filming. But I can’t stand Dan. Can’t stand his voice and he’s like a lot of these smug guys that just blabbers at the camera on and on. 

You mean your average male Canadian??

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2 hours ago, robtoujours said:
11 hours ago, loneshark64 said:

I like Kika and the places they go and their filming. But I can’t stand Dan. Can’t stand his voice and he’s like a lot of these smug guys that just blabbers at the camera on and on. 

You mean your average male Canadian??

Good thing I got popcorn ready

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14 hours ago, toddster said:

 I don't get it.  Sure, concentration is a function of volume, but concentration is what kills you. Concentration is concentration afoot or afloat.  (Actually partial pressure but...) The last one I had actually gave a readout in ppm, but that one expired. FWIW I have a "marine" one now.  The main difference seems to be the power supply.  

I have a residential one that reads out in PPM. It was interesting to watch the readout when I commissioned my new Dickinson solid fuel heater. With the heater fired in the closed-up boat (one dorade open) - no CO detected. Light the Origo stove to boil a kettle - the CO level rapidly climbed to +40 ppm. Turn the Origo off, and the CO level plummets to zero. Moral of the story: good ventilation is required when cooking. Duh. And, a properly installed heater with good draught takes air, moisture, and CO out of the cabin.

And, to get back on topic, as a blah blah blah Canadian male myself, I think Dan deserves a medal for staying married to Kika...she would drive me loopy.

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6 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

Good thing I got popcorn ready

Ha!

While I’m in ugly American (USAer? whatever…) mode, I was watching Sailing Beaver, and I like them. Very little BS. Bobby must be kicking himself for not thinking of Sailing Beaver as a channel name before these people.

But once again with the voices; they finish every statement with an upward inflection. This is common with millennials and valley girls and I think this is also called a high rising terminal, or “uptalk”. But this particular variant seems common among New Zealanders. Am I wrong? The Sailing Beavers take it to a far out extreme. Every. Single. Utterance. ends on an “up”. Drives me around the bend. I turned off the sound.

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On 1/13/2022 at 7:50 PM, Startracker said:

@dylan winter How about a solar powered tug boat?

Funny songs too.  

"Sailing out upon the lake almost swamped by big boat wake, rich people trying to flex, but their boats can't self direct.  

As he passed the nice big yachts, the bikini babes were looking hot, he started to feel like a dork, his confidence did waver.

Then again those big boat owners did risk suffering from foreclosure"

I think this is really cool! The only disturbing part is that his voice and commentary sound eerily like Gomer from the Gomer and Squeaky catamaran thread. I really like the creativity of the project and the high-tech low cost implementation.

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1 hour ago, loneshark64 said:

Ha!

While I’m in ugly American (USAer? whatever…) mode, I was watching Sailing Beaver, and I like them. Very little BS. Bobby must be kicking himself for not thinking of Sailing Beaver as a channel name before these people.

But once again with the voices; they finish every statement with an upward inflection. This is common with millennials and valley girls and I think this is also called a high rising terminal, or “uptalk”. But this particular variant seems common among New Zealanders. Am I wrong? The Sailing Beavers take it to a far out extreme. Every. Single. Utterance. ends on an “up”. Drives me around the bend. I turned off the sound.

Oh, thanks. Now I’ll actually be listening for it.  Must be a YouTube thing. 

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2 hours ago, loneshark64 said:

Ha!

While I’m in ugly American (USAer? whatever…) mode, I was watching Sailing Beaver, and I like them. Very little BS. Bobby must be kicking himself for not thinking of Sailing Beaver as a channel name before these people.

But once again with the voices; they finish every statement with an upward inflection. This is common with millennials and valley girls and I think this is also called a high rising terminal, or “uptalk”. But this particular variant seems common among New Zealanders. Am I wrong? The Sailing Beavers take it to a far out extreme. Every. Single. Utterance. ends on an “up”. Drives me around the bend. I turned off the sound.

Is it 'vocal fry' you're hearing? A bit like a death rattle,... You'll have to figure this out (because I'm NOT watching that vid), and get back to me. 

Ugly Merican mode is easier to spot: I call this shot, looking for reign. 

574972209_FreedomReigns(1of1).thumb.jpg.dae2f6d1278180ad0addd41445a8015d.jpg

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21 hours ago, loneshark64 said:

I like Kika and the places they go and their filming. But I can’t stand Dan. Can’t stand his voice and he’s like a lot of these smug guys that just blabbers at the camera on and on. 

I like the guy. Very adventurous and, as for technical skills, the results speak for themselves. But, most of all, I like the way he treats Kika. The deep love between the two of them is inspiring. 

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5 hours ago, loneshark64 said:

Ha!

While I’m in ugly American (USAer? whatever…) mode, I was watching Sailing Beaver, and I like them. Very little BS. Bobby must be kicking himself for not thinking of Sailing Beaver as a channel name before these people.

But once again with the voices; they finish every statement with an upward inflection. This is common with millennials and valley girls and I think this is also called a high rising terminal, or “uptalk”. But this particular variant seems common among New Zealanders. Am I wrong? The Sailing Beavers take it to a far out extreme. Every. Single. Utterance. ends on an “up”. Drives me around the bend. I turned off the sound.

If I were a vocal coach, I would advise the mostly-female contingent that do it to cease. Yes it's a generational thing. But IMO it's timeless that when your voice inflects as a question, it makes you sound weak, less confident.

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5 hours ago, Israel Hands said:

If I were a vocal coach, I would advise the mostly-female contingent that do it to cease. Yes it's a generational thing. But IMO it's timeless that when your voice inflects as a question, it makes you sound weak, less confident.

Which is why, according to theories current in linguistic and cultural anthropology, women are taught from childhood to inflect statements upward ('up-talk'). "I seek agreement, confirmation, consensus. Feel free to correct me! This is not an assertion of rank or indisputable fact."

Nice use of subjunctive mood, BTW.;)

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This brings to mind the old professor who had a strict rule against ending any essay with a question. She was quite a fun lady but could be ruthless about such things.  I shudder to think about the psychic pain that this speech pattern would cause her.  She would utterly eviscerate those narrators. But in such a nice way.  

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47 minutes ago, toddster said:

This brings to mind the old professor who had a strict rule against ending any essay with a question. She was quite a fun lady but could be ruthless about such things.  I shudder to think about the psychic pain that this speech pattern would cause her.  She would utterly eviscerate those narrators. But in such a nice way.  

Poems often end with interrogatives, for complicated reasons. The final sentence of Yeats' Leda and the Swan subverts the hell out of that convention: ".... Being so caught up / So mastered by the brute blood of the air / Did she put on his knowledge with his power / before the indifferrent beak could let her drop?" It's a sonnet, BTW. But there's no way that last line is either pentameter, nor a question. We have a recording of Yeats reading it, and 'drop' lands like two pounds of calf liver on a stone floor.

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10 hours ago, Israel Hands said:

If I were a vocal coach, I would advise the mostly-female contingent that do it to cease. Yes it's a generational thing. But IMO it's timeless that when your voice inflects as a question, it makes you sound weak, less confident.

When I first noticed this tendency a few years ago, I suspected that it was consciously done as a sort of sneaky defence mechanism. By presenting a statement as a possible question, the presenter isn’t stating something definitively, just in case they’re wrong. It’s a sneaky way of not nailing your colours to the mast.

“Here’s what I think. I’m not sure though and, if you disagree, you’ll note that I didn’t sound like I was sure, so you can’t say I was wrong.”

And, as noted above, it’s mostly a female tendency.

And while I’m on the soapbox, there’s another annoying tendency, that of prefixing sentences or facts with “I suppose”. I work in a field that requires technical accuracy so it’s particularly galling. Either you know or you don’t. Again, I think it’s sneaky and, again, it seems to be mostly a female thing.

Starting a sentence with “So”. I was always taught that no sentence should either start or finish with a preposition.

a sentence should make perfect sense on outs own, it should be a self-contained story.

”So” means “as a result of which” or “therefore” and should only be used between clauses, e.g.:

The incorrect use of prepositions is prevalent so I will start killing people.

Not, “So, I’m going to kill some people because the incorrect use of prepositions is prevalent.

You hear this especially with radio interviews and especially with politicians.

Get off my lawn.

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