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First of all I had a few klicks from my favorite sailing forum so I started to search for the tread. Found it! I'm the guy who bought that massive steel thing...  Regarding the mustache, I always

She is the daughter of a sailor Both yachts and RN She came to me fully trained she can hold a course,  cook good food on one ring, loves rowing, can double declutch a land rover and ha

Before Tesla was a thing, I converted a 1974 VW Beetle to 100% battery electric drive. People told me "You can't do that." I did it. I drove it all over the Washington DC/Baltimore region for 2 y

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8 hours ago, Sailing ceil 3 said:

Update,

Ceil 3 is joining a plastic ocean research vessel in the Baltic in August.

Keep an eye on the youtube channel for daily Vlogs and updates.

The research vessel partnered with Ceil 3 will be making global awareness of the plastic soup in the oceans.

This project will follow on for the rest of the summer.

More information to follow.

 

Astounding! The jump to saving our world from plastic in the oceans from this...

Wow, just wow.

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40 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

 

People are individuals and make individua choices

 

See, I was almost in agreement that it was the Gen X'ers that quit sailing, it was the Millenials that started taking it up again mostly in part because of social media.

Then you have to say that.  From what I've seen of uni Millenials, you're allowed to think anything you want, as long as it's what everyone else thinks.

 

i.e.  I'd like to see one of the plethora of sailing channels just admit they are in it for the sun, booze & sex without having to make "social & environmental awareness" platitudes every other vid. 

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21 hours ago, CapnK said:

Someone had an accidental jibe and broke their gooseneck... I'm glad they are finally getting some sailing lessons. 

They did it practising to make a series of "How to Sail Videos". Might be doing a lot a lot of fixing.

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I'm a Gen-X'er and am happy to report we have a few at my marina and at the yacht club.   I wish there was more of course with kids my kids age.  :) 

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Holy shit! There's *plastic in our oceans*???

Tell me you're joking... Please!

PS - There is a certain requirement for posting here which you have not yet satisfied...

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Ooooh, oooh,  kewl,!  Now it's  Noble Social Awareness to justify playing around on a boat. Guess the skin exposure didn't get so very much cash exposure as hoped.  I'm so glad that SOMEONE cares.

 

(Yup, that'll get ya some Patrons, yesirree)

 

 

 

Not.

 

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19 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

I haven't heard a one of these young sailors that I know, mention the sailing blogs posted here. I'm surprised NOT to hear them talk about sailing as an escape. As you say, their version of sailing is different than the 70's 80's, Cruising World boomer version. Their version is yet to be defined. 

I think this is in part because the channels aren't as interesting to someone with access to the water. They are for the dreamers longing to get out on the water and not sure how to do it. Once you have a boat, or access to a boat, the "sold everything go sailing" story line seems a bit silly. It seems more like poor decision making. You are more interested in diesel maintenance and sail trim and planning your next cruise or charter. And you realize a lot of the youtubers get a lot of things wrong. My own viewership of these channels has gone down exponentially since actually getting into sailing.

I wish we could add a disclaimer to each of these videos saying ***You do not need to quit your job and sell everything to sail. Please click here to find a list of club boat programs near you, and a list of boat looking for crew for club races***. Of course, the whole image of these youtubers relies on the perception they are doing something special that normal people can't, despite so many giving lip service to being a how-to guide. It would be nice to see someone actually talk about how young people can make sailing a part of their life - not replace their life.

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12 hours ago, Veeger said:

Ooooh, oooh,  kewl,!  Now it's  Noble Social Awareness to justify playing around on a boat. Guess the skin exposure didn't get so very much cash exposure as hoped.  I'm so glad that SOMEONE cares.

 

(Yup, that'll get ya some Patrons, yesirree)

 

 

 

Not.

 

Trying to be Larry Flint didn't work so why not pretend to be environmentally aware and make pots of cash like Al Gore. 

Clear off and get a real job.. 

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10 minutes ago, Bobby Joylove said:

Trying to be Larry Flint didn't work so why not pretend to be environmentally aware and make pots of cash like Al Gore. 

Clear off and get a real job.. 

I think his films add to the sum of human experience..... there is a certain banal joy to them and they are full of little jokes

maybe they will find an audience... maybe they won't.

worth monitoring I think

 

D

 

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stats.jpg.7a42ea6e480416078c3fa60135fd05da.jpg

It is not sailboat, but I guess the curve will be somewhat similar even including used sales. It's a trend well known in the industry. The boat inventory increases every year, but the active spenders don't, although it seems the things are slowly going up.

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Sailing in fact seems to do worse, at least according to this study. Probably the golden age of cruising was late 80s - early 90s, like the golden age of almost anything related with middle class statistics related to consumerism and leisure.

Internet makes things look bigger than they are.

Today almost every cruising person/couple/family have a blog, a youtube channel or various form of sharing platform. I could not find reliable data on it, but I will suggest that at least 70% of the cruisers have at least a personal blog, or a social media account related to their sailing. If we consider millenials only, probably this number would go even higher.

In the past there were maybe cruisers who would write books, and not only not very many people can write a book (it doesn't even have to be decent, just a general beginning - central theme - conclusion), also book distribution of cruising books is ridiculously small (thank god! literature is something else).

So back then people went crusing but the phenomenon was less known. Maybe someone had a distant relative who took on a Caribbean cruise, or a neighbor who even circumnavigated. But the internet makes the phenomenon look huge, while it is small. Ever thought why marine products suck and are expensive? Because the sale numbers are small.

Like many other things nowadays sailing is becoming easier. Diesel engines are better than in the past, electronic charts for navigation are dead simple to use, satellite and phone communications improved everywhere in the world. Google is the substitute to "ask a local" because works better than asking a local.

EVEN considering this, the availability of cheap boats, the lower barrier to sailing, stats point toward a different direction. Cruising is still difficult, especially because few things did not change. It's expensive, it's not for everybody, it's hard work. Check out this post about the cost of sailing not on a financial sense:

http://www.lapossibilitadiunisola.com/blog/the-real-cost-of-cruising/

If you haven't noticed economy sucks. And if you are doing good and are lucky enough to have a good job, well, you are lucky.

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2 hours ago, Bobby Joylove said:

Trying to be Larry Flint didn't work so why not pretend to be environmentally aware and make pots of cash like Al Gore. 

Clear off and get a real job.. 

Larry Flint?  I thought he was trying to be a passive-aggressive pimp of women of the Slavic states!

"You too can have women with Eastern European accents on your boat if you buy my secret 5 steps to success!!!   By the way, I make arrangements to you personally, maybe.... for more money!!!"

- Stumbling

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1 hour ago, Cuntyhunk said:

It is not sailboat, but I guess the curve will be somewhat similar even including used sales. It's a trend well known in the industry. The boat inventory increases every year, but the active spenders don't, although it seems the things are slowly going up.

Doesn't "retail" imply sales of new boats only? If so, that is only a mark of the economic situation of boat manufacturers, not interest in the sport or activity of sailing. Those two don't really correlate. In the boom, there were too many builders building too many boats too well. Supply outpaced demand, then factor in the durability of the product, and there is a glut in the used market. Price goes way down (AKA people buy used for cheap because they can). That's micro.

Who buys new boats?

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On 6/19/2018 at 12:03 AM, TwoLegged said:

the sailboat industry missed the boat back in the 1960s–1980s when they churned  out boats which are still serviceable (or at least easily refurbishable) 50 years later.

The low-cost green boat has been tried: the Bente 24. Excellent concept, nice to sail, but it's a tiny weekender. Even in its most minimalist config it costs €24k ex works.  That's with no sails, no outboard, no icebox, no cooker, no lights.  Putting even a half-usable one on the water in the North Sea will cost at least €35k ... which buys three Westerly Centaurs in good condition.  And each of those Centaurs is a genuine potential liveaboard.

So the sailboat industry is stuffed. 

I agree that the sailboat industry as we know it is stuffed, but much more money is spent in maintaining than in building a boat so it's not all doom and gloom. I see it more as a form of Darwinism, the good boat get maintained and last a very long time whereas the bad ones die out of neglect. Around me I see 1990s boats (the beginning of the boom of cruisers designed to stay in marinas here) which are less serviceable than late 1960s plywood boats still loved and sailed. I work in the construction industry, we still do some work on stuff built 500 years ago.

This business idea of churning disposable stuff might work well for the P&L people but do we really want to live amongst mountains of rubbish?

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All you folks that are complaining that the builders "put themselves out of business" by building boats that last forever would be complaining just as loudly if they built obsolescence into them the way automakers do.

Pano is right, I don't want to live among mountains of rubbish. Good, old boats filter their way down through the economic chain so that everyone can be on the water. The wealthy buy the new boats that continue the cycle.  I would never have been able to purchase my current boat new.

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49 minutes ago, Ajax said:

All you folks that are complaining that the builders "put themselves out of business" by building boats that last forever would be complaining just as loudly if they built obsolescence into them the way automakers do.

Ajax, I don't see anyone complaining about the longevity.  Just observing its effects, which include leaving little demand for new builds.

My one regret about the longevity is that the fleet of durable 1970s boats includes so many which were heavily influenced by the IOR.  We have ended up with a legacy stock of boats with pinched ends, blade mains, high CoGs etc which were a design abomination for racing and a disaster for cruising.  It's as if clothing production had stopped in that era and successive generations were condemned to live in platform shoes, flared trousers, maxi skirts and other horrors.

Those design vices had eased by the early 80s, so boats such as your Tartan 33 or the English Westerly Fulmar had fuller sterns and fractional rigs.  But a lot of 1970s boats have been obsoleted by design rather than by construction

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3 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

Ajax, I don't see anyone complaining about the longevity.  Just observing its effects, which include leaving little demand for new builds.

My one regret about the longevity is that the fleet of durable 1970s boats includes so many which were heavily influenced by the IOR.  We have ended up with a legacy stock of boats with pinched ends, blade mains, high CoGs etc which were a design abomination for racing and a disaster for cruising.  It's as if clothing production had stopped in that era and successive generations were condemned to live in platform shoes, flared trousers, maxi skirts and other horrors.

Those design vices had eased by the early 80s, so boats such as your Tartan 33 or the English Westerly Fulmar had fuller sterns and fractional rigs.  But a lot of 1970s boats have been obsoleted by design rather than by construction

If you buy a pure racing machine of that era and attempt to convert it to a cruiser, I agree. However, there are plenty of boats of that era that weren't tortured, that make reasonable cruising boats.  They're still dated but they perform reasonably and are reasonably comfortable if you choose your boat right.

 

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23 minutes ago, Ajax said:

If you buy a pure racing machine of that era and attempt to convert it to a cruiser, I agree. However, there are plenty of boats of that era that weren't tortured, that make reasonable cruising boats.  They're still dated but they perform reasonably and are reasonably comfortable if you choose your boat right.

Sure, pure racing boats of any point in the last 50 years rarely make good cruisers.  But I was thinking of the cruiser-racers which are hobbled by IORisms, e.g.

  • Club Shamrock, the most popular Irish cruiser-racer of the late 70s, with all the worst IOR features.  They sail upwind like a bloodhound: nose down and arse high, with rudder lifting out of the water
  • Contessa 32, one of the prettiest and most seakindly hulls ever made, hobbled by a blade main.  It'd be so much nicer with a fractional rig
  • Oyster 37, UFO 34 etc -- as per the Club Shamrock
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27 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

Yes whoever decided that low righting moment, big genoas and narrow sterns were a good idea should have stayed in bed for the benefit of future generations.

You are too kind, Pano.  I would make them suffer more.

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18 hours ago, freewheelin said:

Doesn't "retail" imply sales of new boats only? If so, that is only a mark of the economic situation of boat manufacturers, not interest in the sport or activity of sailing. Those two don't really correlate. In the boom, there were too many builders building too many boats too well. Supply outpaced demand, then factor in the durability of the product, and there is a glut in the used market. Price goes way down (AKA people buy used for cheap because they can). That's micro.

Who buys new boats?

I wish I could.  I would for once want to experience what it is like to order a boat and choosing all the options I want and waiting eagerly for the boat to get built, possibly visiting the yard seeing my boat emerge.  And for added bucks, having Robert design something amazing and go through that processes of having it built.   It is all but a dream until I hit the Powerball/Megabucks.

Its too bad there isn't some kind of registry tracking used boat sales.  I'm sure some data could be gleaned from yacht world classifieds, but wouldnt be the whole picture.

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22 hours ago, Cuntyhunk said:

 

If you haven't noticed economy sucks. And if you are doing good and are lucky enough to have a good job, well, you are lucky.

If  you are doing good and have a good job you probably don't want to quit it and take a chance trying to come back to it two years later.

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My wife and  I bought our first  boat new. All the eager anticipation was just as you describe, MP, but it quickly became a used boat anyway.

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2 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

Its too bad there isn't some kind of registry tracking used boat sales.  I'm sure some data could be gleaned from yacht world classifieds, but wouldnt be the whole picture.

I think someone said it earlier, but a tracking of marine supplies, sails, services, etc. would give a better indicator of popularity. Tracking the sale of bottom paint would be a closer indicator than new boat sales.

For sailboats in particular, dollar sales of sails and  running rigging could do it. Those certainly aren't getting more durable.

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On 6/19/2018 at 12:42 PM, CapnK said:

Someone had an accidental jibe and broke their gooseneck... I'm glad they are finally getting some sailing lessons. IMO, they've been *very* lucky to have made it so far with so little experience.
 

As you know one of the advantages of cats n tris is the boom can be tamed by having the traveller eased right down on the full width traveller and having the lazy side cleated off and not having the mainsheet eased much and/ or pulling it right in prior to gybing. 

Accidental gybes can and do happen to both experienced and under experienced skippers. It shouldn’t result in broken gear.

 

Yet even with a well tamed boom I’ve broken the head board out of the mast track a couple of times when gybing in a bit of a blow. Modified it, to stop it breaking and still broken it. Seems to happen more when reefed and the head isn’t supported in to the mast by the halyard.

(It doesn’t help that it’s a shitty dumb designed bit of engineering by a big name producer that the stupid boat owner doesn’t change because he’s lazy or tight or hopeful that with mods it will work.)

Point is I’m defending Ms Vags possibly poor steering because one should be able to (crash) gybe and the gooseneck not disintegrate. (And who knows whether the other legendary knowalls on board had the boom properly tamed.)

Yes there’s big loads when gybing especially with a big headed main. And unfortunately shit does break and especially, cast metal shit, especially cast aluminium shit but it really shouldn’t in a fresh new boat and for mine that goose neck was way piddly and under spec or poorly designed  for the probaly large rapid twisting force that was applied and it tore off.  

So there, my two bob’s worth. 

 

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13 minutes ago, freewheelin said:

For sailboats in particular, dollar sales of sails and  running rigging could do it. Those certainly aren't getting more durable

The life of sails varies massively between racing and cruising.   A coastal cruiser may often get 20 years out of a sail, whereas a racer might get only 1 or 2 seasons.  And the costs vary massively by size of boat.

€100k/year spent on sails may be the product of a few hundred competitive dinghies, a single TP52, or a marina full of weekend Beneteaux.

So I'm not sure that a total of sailmaker revenues says much about how much sailing is happening

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Re: sales data. I tried to post a few days ago but it resulted in a "hidden" post.  WTF?  So without any graphs or extra stuff:  Apparently there is a small Sea Grant program that keeps track of the pleasure boat fleet size, age, composition, etc. by mining registration data.  Large spreadsheets (for PNW) can be found on the Washington Sea Grant web site.  More data sets might be available in other states with Sea Grant programs.  Phone numbers of the compilers are on the web site, so if you're really interested, there is a trail to follow. 

Some tidbits I gleaned from them, a few months ago IIRC: The sailboat fleet is far, far older (and of course far smaller) than the Mobo fleet.  The peaks of the bell-shaped curves suggest that the standard PNW sailboat is 40 years old and 28 feet long.  

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1 hour ago, Jim in Halifax said:

Plastic in the ocean = bad. Plastic surgery for boob enhancement = ...?  Altering anything nature made should be tacitly avoided.

So you'd refuse body modifications such as a cardiac stent to cure angina, pins and plates to fix  broken leg, or removal of a tumour?

 

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19 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

So you'd refuse body modifications such as a cardiac stent to cure angina, pins and plates to fix  broken leg, or removal of a tumour?

 

Nope. Plastic is a necessary part of our modern world...but it does not enhance the natural beauty of beaches or boobs.

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On 6/24/2018 at 11:21 AM, toddster said:

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It's easy to think of a number of things that might skew the data.  One of which might be that larger boats are more likely to be registered with the Coast Guard and not the State?  

At least in Washington, boats are required to be registered with the state even if they are titled through federal documentation. It seems to have something to do with collecting sales tax...  Not everyone does it, but at least in my marina current registration is required for all boats in slips. Small boats without motors don't require registration. My guess is that the biggest number of sailboats being in the 24-28 foot range is about right. And 40-45 years ago was a pretty big boom in sailboat building. Even if it seems like last month to some of us. 

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My 45 fits 4 people comfortably in two separate cabins.  When we have any more than 4 ppl aboard, things get crowded.  While we can fit another couple on the settee it just makes things kinda scrunched for space.  I guess it could work if two people were on watch at all times, and the remaining four could share the space below on a passage.  But, once in port, things feel jammed up again.

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Modern demand for privacy means no one is comfortable sleeping with other than family members on board any more. Marinas have adjacent hotels where people can get a private room.

The modern "two couple" cruiser with two heads is ridiculous. A fart in the forward head can be heard or smelled everywhere on the boat, including the aft head. There's no privacy on a boat. If you want it, get a room.

 

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I've lost track of the number of 50 and older cruising couples we've met sailing too big boats for the stated reason of "When the kids and grand kids visit". Sadly, the answer to the question that follows of when that last visit was always seems to be  "Not yet but maybe next year?.

 

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11 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

My 45 fits 4 people comfortably in two separate cabins.  When we have any more than 4 ppl aboard, things get crowded.  While we can fit another couple on the settee it just makes things kinda scrunched for space.  I guess it could work if two people were on watch at all times, and the remaining four could share the space below on a passage.  But, once in port, things feel jammed up again.

We go away every Xmas for 10 days on our Jeanneau 40. Myself and my wife, two young adult sons and their girlfriends, 2 stand up paddle boards, 6 surfboards, 2 dinghy's and 1 completely bat shit Boarder Collie. Never a dull moment, but everyone has there own cabin.

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16 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

We go away every Xmas for 10 days on our Jeanneau 40. Myself and my wife, two young adult sons and their girlfriends, 2 stand up paddle boards, 6 surfboards, 2 dinghy's and 1 completely bat shit Boarder Collie. Never a dull moment, but everyone has there own cabin.

Must take 2-3 knots off of the speed towing the barge behind, though.....

FKT

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56 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

1 completely bat shit Boarder Collie

I don't think there has ever been a Collie who isn't batshit.  Usually adorable, always v clever, but always a bit mad in some unique style

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I think the most I've gotten on my boat was 6, for about a week long cruise on a 38'er. My parents, my two kids, my wife and myself.  One hard dinghy, one RIB and an inflatable kayak. Quarters were tight and a week was enough. With 4 it's just right. With 2 it's plenty of space.  I don't see the need for much bigger.  Bigger winches don't help you carry a sail. 

 

 

 

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7 teenage girls for a sleepover on our trampolines... Giggling didn't die down until 2 am or so. Grrr

Otherwise 4-5 on our 40' (skinny) cat for a few weeks at time. No big drama.

2 girls, my wife and me on our 30' mono for a week. Worked out fine. I fetched drinks lots.

And LB15 - how the hell do you get 6 cabins in a Jeanneau 40?

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4 minutes ago, dylan winter said:

it is hard to beat a lovely scottish summer day that lasts for 20 hours though

we had a fabulous reach up the scottish coast

starts about 20 mins

 

What the Winter takes away, the Summer gives back. I've watched all your videos. You must have edited out all the rain for this one. That's hardly rain and no fog at all. 

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seldom get the cameras out in the rain

they don't like it and the world does not look like a nice place.

Fortunately I don't have a  deadline to deliver 16 mins of material week in week out to get that Patreon pay check.

I like to have a bit of a think about the films

D

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10 hours ago, LB 15 said:

We go away every Xmas for 10 days on our Jeanneau 40. Myself and my wife, two young adult sons and their girlfriends, 2 stand up paddle boards, 6 surfboards, 2 dinghy's and 1 completely bat shit Boarder Collie. Never a dull moment, but everyone has there own cabin.

At least you fill your boat up at least once per year.

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33 feet. I haven't owned the boat very long but I've never had more than 3 onboard overnight and it was only one night.

I singlehand a lot so 33 X 11 X 6.5 is palatial! ^_^  Seriously though, I think the boat could handle 4 for a week, comfortably so long as the parties involved were willing to accept a slightly smaller definition of "personal space."

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5 hours ago, dylan winter said:

26 feet... 5 adults...three weeks.

Scotland... where it rains sometimes

D

I sail with 5 guys once a year on my small 42 footer for a week once a year. We started sailing together in 1984. 

We're fatter, so getting into the dinghy without swamping it is harder than it used to be, but we have the means to get a slip now.

Cooperation is key. Get the crew to pass stuff to you. Use the guy closest to the task at hand.

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36', 2 adults, 2 kids, 7 months.  The boat never felt too small except for the few times when 100' would have been too small.

My philosophy has always been to get the smallest boat I think can do the job. In the Caribbean we were the smallest boat nearly everywhere we went.

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2 hours ago, kdh said:

I sail with 5 guys once a year on my small 42 footer for a week once a year. We started sailing together in 1984. 

We're fatter, so getting into the dinghy without swamping it is harder than it used to be, but we have the means to get a slip now.

Cooperation is key. Get the crew to pass stuff to you. Use the guy closest to the task at hand.

small 42 footer?

I guess 42 feet is small by the standards of the average new cruiser

d

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59 minutes ago, dylan winter said:

small 42 footer?

I guess 42 feet is small by the standards of the average new cruiser

d

Small by volume compared to modern boats of the same length (Hinckley Sou'wester 42).

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27 minutes ago, kdh said:
1 hour ago, dylan winter said:

small 42 footer?

I guess 42 feet is small by the standards of the average new cruiser

Small by volume compared to modern boats of the same length (Hinckley Sou'wester 42).

When I was a kid, the biggest boat in our large harbour was a 37ft one-tonner.  The v active offshore racing fleet was dominated by half-tonners, with a fair smattering of quarter-tonners.  Family cruising boats were overwhelmingly in the mid-20s (23–28ft), and those boats routinely took five people cruising for a fortnight.

We cruised a J/24. Two adults, two late teenagers, plus a big dog.  We had great fun and thought ourselves extremely privileged ... which we were.

So "small 42-footer" sounds to me like "small mansion".

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10 hours ago, dylan winter said:

26 feet... 5 adults...three weeks.

Scotland... where it rains sometimes

D

A westerly centaur is very plush...

When I was a kid in the 80s we criss crossed the channel islands on a 23 footer. 2 adults and 2 children, I think we even did a 3 adults and 2 children week. My dad then bought a westerly centaur which we considered really comfortable, my mum was really happy with the head separated from the rest of the boat, next boat had a shower which was extraordinary!!!

daimio-60137110170657497070575669654568x

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On 6/21/2018 at 6:19 AM, Panoramix said:

Yes whoever decided that low righting moment, big genoas and narrow sterns were a good idea should have stayed in bed for the benefit of future generations.

Don't confuse a high VCG with low RM.  At normal angles of heel, IOR boats had a lot of RM due to their form stability.  

Big genoas and narrow sterns?  You mean like in the Farr 1104 (which was a fairly early days 1Ton)

farr_1104_drawing.jpg

4252-Farr-1104-Razzamatazz-(4)_medium.JPG

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1 hour ago, TwoLegged said:

When I was a kid, the biggest boat in our large harbour was a 37ft one-tonner.  The v active offshore racing fleet was dominated by half-tonners, with a fair smattering of quarter-tonners.  Family cruising boats were overwhelmingly in the mid-20s (23–28ft), and those boats routinely took five people cruising for a fortnight.

We cruised a J/24. Two adults, two late teenagers, plus a big dog.  We had great fun and thought ourselves extremely privileged ... which we were.

So "small 42-footer" sounds to me like "small mansion".

And we walked to school through the snow uphill both ways and we liked it!!

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14 hours ago, Zonker said:

7 teenage girls for a sleepover on our trampolines... Giggling didn't die down until 2 am or so. Grrr

Otherwise 4-5 on our 40' (skinny) cat for a few weeks at time. No big drama.

2 girls, my wife and me on our 30' mono for a week. Worked out fine. I fetched drinks lots.

And LB15 - how the hell do you get 6 cabins in a Jeanneau 40?

It's the version they did for Japanese businessmen. 

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2 hours ago, Mark Set said:

And we walked to school through the snow uphill both ways and we liked it!!

Snow?  Luxury! 

To get to school, we had to tunnel through rock.  With our teeth ...

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7 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

7 cabins, surely.  LB15 said there was 6 humans plus dog, and everyone has their own cabin.

The Dog patrols the deck all night. You never know when a jetski might need barking at. She hates them even more than me.

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4 hours ago, Panoramix said:

A westerly centaur is very plush...

When I was a kid in the 80s we criss crossed the channel islands on a 23 footer. 2 adults and 2 children, I think we even did a 3 adults and 2 children week. My dad then bought a westerly centaur which we considered really comfortable, my mum was really happy with the head separated from the rest of the boat, next boat had a shower which was extraordinary!!!

daimio-60137110170657497070575669654568x

They are bloody brilliant for a 26 footer.

I guess that is why they made 3,000 of the buggers

Going from this Huntre minstrel at 22 feet

 

 

to the centaur at 26 feet was wonderful - Jill and I lived on it for three months - you soon adapt.

 

then I sold the centaur and went back to the 22 footer for a year

 

then bought another centaur, kept that for a year... then back to the 22 footer again.

going to a smaller boat is always a challenge.

D

 

 

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13 hours ago, LB 15 said:

The Dog patrols the deck all night. You never know when a jetski might need barking at. She hates them even more than me.

Probably shouldn't ask, but what did you do to the dog that she hates you?

Lab-love? Mutt-mooching? Poodle-petting?

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10 hours ago, Black Sox said:

Probably shouldn't ask, but what did you do to the dog that she hates you?

Lab-love? Mutt-mooching? Poodle-petting?

'More than I'. There. I am Grammatically challenged. 

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Brow is up the stick..hope Tash is the father.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL_XZ3O5miE

It's hard to see how this won't also send their business plan up the duff.

Whatever La Vagabonde's deal is with Outremer, I doubt it involved the couple retreating to shore to start breeding.  And I'm not sure that their Patreons will keep on paying out when the video footage moves from boat to nursery.

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15 hours ago, Black Sox said:

Probably shouldn't ask, but what did you do to the dog that she hates you?

Lab-love? Mutt-mooching? Poodle-petting?

Clearly he was grooming his pet. 

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3 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL_XZ3O5miE

It's hard to see how this won't also send their business plan up the duff.

Whatever La Vagabonde's deal is with Outremer, I doubt it involved the couple retreating to shore to start breeding.  And I'm not sure that their Patreons will keep on paying out when the video footage moves from boat to nursery.

 

Doubt they will be going to the Arctic Circle anymore now as well, never thought they actually would make it, I think someone may have pulled their leg on that one and they rushed to announce it first without looking into what was needed, or realising that the others were going on someone else's boat and not their own ;)

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4 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL_XZ3O5miE

It's hard to see how this won't also send their business plan up the duff.

Whatever La Vagabonde's deal is with Outremer, I doubt it involved the couple retreating to shore to start breeding.  And I'm not sure that their Patreons will keep on paying out when the video footage moves from boat to nursery.

judging by the gushing comments the vagger fans will watch the soap regardless of the boat or not

I wonder if there was an up the duff clause in the Outremar agreement?

And

How do plastuc busters get on with chest feeding?...

Maybe a deal with Nestle is looming.

All good fun.

D.

 

 

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3 hours ago, dylan winter said:

How do plastuc busters get on with chest feeding?...

I think the Schrader Valve shits itself and takes out the cabin top.

The upside for planet earth is they will cease being How to Sail vid makers and become UTube watchers.

images (57).jpeg

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Patreon encourages people to become full time creators offering the hope of getting a salary while doing what they like the most, the pursuit of your own dream.

But then the platform fails to deliver. Less than 2% of Patreon accounts make above minimum wage (which is saying a living, for who leaves on a smaller boat).

https://theoutline.com/post/2571/no-one-makes-a-living-on-patreon?zd=2&zi=6a6gnwzh

It’s not like a lottery, but not very far from it, especially because understanding the audience is less an engineering problem and more blind luck. And that's general, not specific to stinky sailors.

Dylan keeps saying that they Delos/La Vag re good (I think he means extremely focused and hard workers), but the two leaders were the first who created the market and reap the benefits. They are celebrated like most startuppers and successful entrepreneurs, but for the same logic of other entrepreneurial victories being at the right place at the right time (ergo luck) counts. The big becomes bigger.

Youtube killed revenues for creators, Patreon banks on people hopes while at the same time is becoming itself a content farm, harvesting from creators and from funders while enjoying benefits of distribution. A win-it-all situation.
Medium offer the same illusion of making a living while doing your thing targeted to writers, basically offering extremely low compensation for content that they then profit from later with their advertising.

What other platforms are there for your content? Any of those is fair?

Is this the famous invisible hand of free market? The one that keeps on taking and never gives?

I guess it’s a systemic problem and everybody is getting the shaft:
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jun/27/publishers-pay-writers-pittance-philip-pullman-antony-beevor-sally-gardner

There is a French open source and very unpopular funding platform, Liberapay, that does not charge fees and it’s used by a bunch of nerds worldwide that you can count on a commuter train. It’s not shiny and does not have the outreach of Patreon, but for people with an audience already it could at least be a fair way to do business.

There are skilled people, cheaper boats and parts, but the ability to make a living of saving enough is strongly impaired, and even with salaries not as great as they used to be,  a lot of people still prefer to struggle afloat than in a cubicle.

Looking at the leaders does not do any good. How many Delos/La Vag the market needs? What is the secret formula (or the reverse engineering) to make a living out of sailing content with better videos, less bikinis, more interesting narratives, less pig feeding/sundowning/lagoon dwelling? Less soap opera/more real sailing/cultural discovery?

What is this market anyway? A couple thousand sailors, 80% of which won’t pay anyway?

I know this thread tries sometimes to answer this question, when we are not too busy with amazing drifting. But it seems that the consensus leads to a big white flag. The only option we have is yet another bikini in a warm place. Or a British perv with some Eastern Europe connections.

But genres fade after a while. What's after soap opera? Sci-fi? Criminal drama (maybe some piracy drug taking sex trafficking)? Most dangerous cruising places? Most difficult weather conditions and wildlife? A Steve Irwin of Sailing? Or a birder? Birding is bigger than I thought, maybe because birds are one the few wildlife still spottable from a house window. 

Anyway, I know this does make no sense. This world is fucked anyway so who cares

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Vicarious living armchair admiral patreons are doing the world a favour.

Just imagine how crowded noisy and polluted all the great cruising destinations would be if those dreamers actually brought yachts and cruised.

Crikey there could well be a world wide yacht shortage ,now that’s what I call a real crisis.

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