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Reminds me a bit of an experiment I was involved with decades ago.  McDonalds was trying one of many experiments to introduce real food to their menu.  The company that I worked for (as a lowly QA summer temp)  supplied various fruit products in different formulations.  (On the scale of McDonalds "little experiments," this was still a huge sale for us.)  The results of these experiments were always the same.  Just add sugar.  Sales are directly proportional to sugar.  In fact, leave out the fucking fruit, just serve sugar and some vaguely fruit-colored material.  

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First of all I had a few klicks from my favorite sailing forum so I started to search for the tread. Found it! I'm the guy who bought that massive steel thing...  Regarding the mustache, I always

She is the daughter of a sailor Both yachts and RN She came to me fully trained she can hold a course,  cook good food on one ring, loves rowing, can double declutch a land rover and ha

I have watched these last few posts with interest I agree that I should put more effort in...... I also a agree that film making has changed. In one vid I made there was a 45 second shot....

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5 hours ago, dylan winter said:

 

Heh almost all Youtubers have some delay, but DrakeParagon is the titleholder.

He's been regularly posting a trip from North Carolina to Greenland to Ireland every week.  From 2013.

He's not even halfway yet :D

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On 8/13/2018 at 12:38 AM, Dilligaf0220 said:

Heh almost all Youtubers have some delay, but DrakeParagon is the titleholder.

He's been regularly posting a trip from North Carolina to Greenland to Ireland every week.  From 2013.

He's not even halfway yet :D

There is a magic about the films being almost contemperanious - however, I think that can be the difference between a diary and a book.

There are times when a bit of distance and thought makes for better shaped and paced narratives.

My thought is that the films will be up for years - just as my books have been around for  a long time.

Sometimes less is more.

La Vag have done astonishingly well - but their diligently posted weekly 16 minutes often end up being a bit vacuous.  They spend a lot of time on the domestics and theiir feelings - a floating soap rather than the narrative of a big journey.

D

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, dylan winter said:

There is a magic about the films being almost contemperanious - however, I think that can be the difference between a diary and a book.

There are times when a bit of distance and thought makes for better shaped and paced narratives.

My thought is that the films will be up for years - just as my books have been around for  a long time.

Sometimes less is more.

La Vag have done astonishingly well - but their diligently posted weekly 16 minutes often end up being a bit vacuous.  They spend a lot of time on the domestics and theiir feelings - a floating soap rather than the narrative of a big journey.

D

 

 

 

 

 

I liked it better when it was about the adventure and the boat.  Since they got the Cat, I havent seen a single episode.

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4 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

I liked it better when it was about the adventure and the boat.  Since they got the Cat, I havent seen a single episode.

like this you mean

 

 

I would rather watch fish than spear them.  How long has that fish been around? Five years, ten - I have no idea

major predator taken from the ecosystem.

On my river here in Suffolk during the summer we get small shoals of 200 or so Mullet coming up - they work the edges of the river and occasioanlly jump. A real pleasure to watch.

D

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4 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

I liked it better when it was about the adventure and the boat.  Since they got the Cat, I havent seen a single episode.

I lost interest when they got the cat as well. Then I figured I was being cantankerous and went and watched a newer episode. It was really very boring. They wanted to go into a cove with a reef, but their chartplotter wasn't working. So they were scared to go in (not sure why really). They called Outremer in France to have them fix the chartplotter. They went in the cove and went swimming.

Then again, all the channels seem kind of boring to me these days. I've found I am partial though to the ones with good attitudes trying to give it a go and figure things out on a shoestring.

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4 hours ago, dylan winter said:

 

I would rather watch fish than spear them.  How long has that fish been around? Five years, ten - I have no idea

A fish that big likely has a lot higher concentration of methyl mercury too. I prefer to take pan-size fish, big enough for a single meal.

Back when I was a kid we used to spear blue groper around Sydney. Good eating & slow moving so easy to kill. We nearly exterminated them and a ban on taking them was introduced. Now you can see them when you go snorkeling.

FKT

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7 hours ago, dylan winter said:

like this you mean

 

 

I would rather watch fish than spear them.  How long has that fish been around? Five years, ten - I have no idea

major predator taken from the ecosystem.

On my river here in Suffolk during the summer we get small shoals of 200 or so Mullet coming up - they work the edges of the river and occasioanlly jump. A real pleasure to watch.

D

 

The idea and title is a straight copy of what Young Blood Spearfishing has been doing recently, who by chance SLV follow:

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/brodiemoss/videos

 

 

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1 hour ago, dylan winter said:

exploitive thumbnail

women sail without a single pekka on board

 

 

Well then, the feministas can't accuse any men of exploiting them if they are exploiting themselves.

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23 hours ago, dylan winter said:

like this you mean

 

 

I would rather watch fish than spear them.  How long has that fish been around? Five years, ten - I have no idea

major predator taken from the ecosystem.

On my river here in Suffolk during the summer we get small shoals of 200 or so Mullet coming up - they work the edges of the river and occasioanlly jump. A real pleasure to watch.

D

They speared a Permit?  Sob.

I wouldn't call them a 'major predator', or even rare.  Highly regarded by anglers though, usually they are pretty skittish and very hard to catch.

I suppose the Scottish equivalent would be spearing a wild Salmon.  Just not done.

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13 minutes ago, Ajax said:

Two US submarines were named for the Permit due to it's fast swimming, hard fighting nature.

I would have guessed it had more to do with the federal regulatory hurdles to build anything with a nuke in it, but there you go.

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On 7/29/2018 at 11:16 AM, dylan winter said:

I see no reason why the formula cannot  be transferred to another genre

Hey Honey, I have a great idea. Let's stream the birth of our child! We can charge extra for it. But I do agree with those that say don't watch it if you're not interested. It's just a non conforming way to make a living. As Dylan likes to say...... Goodonya'!

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21 hours ago, Dilligaf0220 said:

They speared a Permit?  Sob.

I wouldn't call them a 'major predator', or even rare.  Highly regarded by anglers though, usually they are pretty skittish and very hard to catch.

I suppose the Scottish equivalent would be spearing a wild Salmon.  Just not done.

Looks like they are just keeping up with all the kool kids spearing Permit.

image.png.436c08c25549c5229c6e93dfecad4271.png

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl-bz-protected-fish-served-jimmy-buffett-restaurant-permit-fish-margaritaville-20180815-story.html

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I shall make no friends by posting this because I know that there are people who really love fishing. My best friend is one of them. He loved fishing from my boat so much that he bought the boat.

However, the whole process leaves me cold... turning the cockpit of my boat into a slaughter house for beautiful fish seems disrespectful to the environment.

here is my take

 

the fishing happens at 2.28 for those who are severely afflicted by rod lust

 

 

2 summers have now passed since I was last in Scotland. I have unfinished business with the place.

I commend it to you as a brilliant place to sail.... and fish if you must

Dylan

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37 minutes ago, frozenhawaiian said:

I see the bitter jealousy and buttsore whining thread is still going. with all the time you guys spend bitching and moaning on SA where do you find the time to actually go sailing? 

It's not an either/or situation. I can complain while doing anything. 

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2 hours ago, frozenhawaiian said:

I see the bitter jealousy and buttsore whining thread is still going. with all the time you guys spend bitching and moaning on SA where do you find the time to actually go sailing? 

I've actually posted on SA while sailing.  Bwahahaha...  :D

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On 8/15/2018 at 1:35 PM, freewheelin said:

I lost interest when they got the cat as well. Then I figured I was being cantankerous and went and watched a newer episode. It was really very boring. They wanted to go into a cove with a reef, but their chartplotter wasn't working. So they were scared to go in (not sure why really). They called Outremer in France to have them fix the chartplotter. They went in the cove and went swimming.

Then again, all the channels seem kind of boring to me these days. I've found I am partial though to the ones with good attitudes trying to give it a go and figure things out on a shoestring.

Granted, I haven't watched too many of these couples videos so I'm curious, does anyone recall seeing the practice of proper seamanship in the videos you've seen? I realized good seamanship will be the boring stuff as these videos go, however, I've never once seen anyone taking a fix to sanity check GPS/Chartplotter, I've never seen anyone record their position and course on a chart, and I've never seen a single deck or maintenance log entry made.

Seems to reason that as the electronics go, so goes the voyage.

The prancing around the Carribean seems like it's all fun and games, but what happens to the genre when one of these couples and their boat are lost at sea in a foreseeable crisis they are ill-prepared to handle?

 

 

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23 minutes ago, RSC said:

The prancing around the Carribean seems like it's all fun and games, but what happens to the genre when one of these couples and their boat are lost at sea in a foreseeable crisis they are ill-prepared to handle?

It's already happened. There were no consequences.

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25 minutes ago, RSC said:

Granted, I haven't watched too many of these couples videos so I'm curious, does anyone recall seeing the practice of proper seamanship in the videos you've seen? I realized good seamanship will be the boring stuff as these videos go, however, I've never once seen anyone taking a fix to sanity check GPS/Chartplotter, I've never seen anyone record their position and course on a chart, and I've never seen a single deck or maintenance log entry made.

Delos does all this. They are the only I have seen.

The others I have watched couldn't even manage decent sail trim. It irks me, all that time on a boat and they don't take the time to read up on what makes it go. I watched one that said said "the wind was perfect, we were even able to put up the main".

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1 hour ago, RSC said:

Granted, I haven't watched too many of these couples videos so I'm curious, does anyone recall seeing the practice of proper seamanship in the videos you've seen? I realized good seamanship will be the boring stuff as these videos go, however, I've never once seen anyone taking a fix to sanity check GPS/Chartplotter, I've never seen anyone record their position and course on a chart, and I've never seen a single deck or maintenance log entry made.

 

 

 

I agree - films about semanship are rather dull and hard to monetise.

As for keeping logs and taking a fix - keeping a track.  I have never done either of these things. i always have spare GPS devices on board and a large paper chart of the general area...so far so good.

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1 hour ago, RSC said:

Granted, I haven't watched too many of these couples videos so I'm curious, does anyone recall seeing the practice of proper seamanship in the videos you've seen? I realized good seamanship will be the boring stuff as these videos go, however, I've never once seen anyone taking a fix to sanity check GPS/Chartplotter, I've never seen anyone record their position and course on a chart, and I've never seen a single deck or maintenance log entry made.

Seems to reason that as the electronics go, so goes the voyage.

Exactly. How often do they use a lead line instead of a sounder? Never! When did they last work up an EP? Fix position by a dipping light? A running fix? How many still carry a copy of Harrison’s clock on board? These days stupid fools often go to sea with only 4 or 5  independently powered and often water proof chart plotters. Not nearly as accurate as ‘fixing’ their position with a hand bearing compass on a single copy of a soggy chart.

One should make voyaging under sail as difficult as possible after all. It is not supposed to be easy or fun, God damn it!

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2 hours ago, LB 15 said:

How many still carry a copy of Harrison’s clock on board? 

One of the top 3 Pommy contributions to the world alongside Tea and Pink Floyd.

Quite amazing to think that it took one man decades and not until the 1770's and post Cook's mapping of eastern Australia (he used Lunar longitude method) for an accurate timepiece to be developed to determine time difference to Greenwich and therefore longitude. Many don't appreciate the same methodology of measuring time but against clocks circling the earth in satelites is today called GPS.

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5 hours ago, RSC said:

Granted, I haven't watched too many of these couples videos so I'm curious, does anyone recall seeing the practice of proper seamanship in the videos you've seen? I realized good seamanship will be the boring stuff as these videos go, however, I've never once seen anyone taking a fix to sanity check GPS/Chartplotter, I've never seen anyone record their position and course on a chart, and I've never seen a single deck or maintenance log entry made.

Seems to reason that as the electronics go, so goes the voyage.

The prancing around the Carribean seems like it's all fun and games, but what happens to the genre when one of these couples and their boat are lost at sea in a foreseeable crisis they are ill-prepared to handle?

 

 

the hit count goes up 

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On 8/20/2018 at 4:17 PM, LB 15 said:

Exactly. How often do they use a lead line instead of a sounder? Never! When did they last work up an EP? Fix position by a dipping light? A running fix? How many still carry a copy of Harrison’s clock on board? These days stupid fools often go to sea with only 4 or 5  independently powered and often water proof chart plotters. Not nearly as accurate as ‘fixing’ their position with a hand bearing compass on a single copy of a soggy chart.

One should make voyaging under sail as difficult as possible after all. It is not supposed to be easy or fun, God damn it!

Yes, I never leave home without my H4. Fools!

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14 hours ago, Dilligaf0220 said:

Navel beef and salt pork is out for La Vegan, so kraut and buttery Idahoan potatoes it is!

Until they spear another Permit.

I'm not sure navel beef was ever on an official menu, but it may have happened after everything else ran out.

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5 minutes ago, Dilligaf0220 said:

The food of real mariners!

 

$_59.JPG

From Chowhound:

 

Naval beef is salted brisket that comes in large, white plastic tubs with black lettering. It’s part of a brisket cut with bone in, says jayt90, so you get bones, fat, and meat cut into serving-size chunks. The meat is brined (so cured but not smoked) and uncooked. It’s a prime ingredient in Jigg’s Dinner, which requires that it be cooked in a large cauldron of water (to dilute the salt, says jayt90) with root vegetables and cabbage. “Delicious, and you get to suck on the bones,” says jayt90. “It’s that kind of meal!”

The name might come from its maritime origins, says alanbarnes. Cheap cuts of raw beef, preserved in salt, were a staple for sailors in the days before refrigeration. However, he notes that the “navel” end of the brisket is the part closest to the belly button, so maybe it’s “navel beef” after all!

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Oh, please.  Spearfishing is probably the most sustainable method of harvest when it comes to fishing.  Moreso than long-lining or trawling, or even hook & line.  You swim down, make eye contact with the fish you chose (in THEIR ENVIRONMENT no less), and selectively pick the one you want to invite home for dinner. Not saying I agree with La Vagina for spearing a Permit, but hey, at least he ate the muthafukka...

I spear fish, and I kill only what I eat, and I eat what I kill.  And, I share most of it with friends and family.  And you know what?  The fish I serve is way better than any of that farm-raised-color-added trawl-netted, shit and crap all you cry babies buy at the grocery store.  If you eat fish, whether from a can, or on a foam platter wrapped in cellophane, shut the fuck up and quit preaching.

Know where you're food comes from and you'll live a healthier life.

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IMG_0263.jpg

Yellowtail.jpg

IMG_0267.jpg

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7 minutes ago, dylan winter said:

bloody brilliant Fred Drift lads - I learned a lot

I want to eat some now

 

D

Oh among ex-pat Newfoundlanders the choice of beef can be serious business.

 

 

They can be a shifty & ornery lot.

Don't let their good nature & cheerful accents fool you.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, thereefgeek said:

Oh, please.  Spearfishing is probably the most sustainable method of harvest when it comes to fishing...

Says every spearfisherman.  Always.  Constantly.

Sheesh, it's like you guys are the vegan cyclists of the angling world.  Hell even the fuzzy La Vag had to say it half a dozen times.

 

 

 

:lol:

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18 minutes ago, Dilligaf0220 said:

Says every spearfisherman.  Always.  Constantly.

Sheesh, it's like you guys are the vegan cyclists of the angling world.  Hell even the fuzzy La Vag had to say it half a dozen times.

 

 

 

:lol:

Like I said dipshit, go get your meat at the grocery store, where, you personally don't have to deal with the bloody fact of life.  Or, go eat your soy burger and then you can feel so much more superior to the rest of us lowly carnivores who haven't evolved to your level of malnutrition.  

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Uma is makin da moolah hand over fist, apparently... In the latest video they take delivery of a dozen 12V 100Ah LiFePO4 batteries. These sell for almost US$1,000 *each*.

So they make 6 vid's and the batts are paid for. Thanks, patreons!
 

 

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1 hour ago, thereefgeek said:

Like I said dipshit, go get your meat at the grocery store, where, you personally don't have to deal with the bloody fact of life.  Or, go eat your soy burger and then you can feel so much more superior to the rest of us lowly carnivores who haven't evolved to your level of malnutrition.  

I catch my own fish thanks.

And I don't need to cheat with a speargun, that's way too easy.

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20 minutes ago, Dilligaf0220 said:

I catch my own fish thanks.

And I don't need to cheat with a speargun, that's way too easy.

The easiest way is to shoot 500m of gillnet, have a few beers, pick up the net, discard the unwanted species, then have some more beers.

Used to do that for a living some 30+ years back when we did fish species surveys.

Nowadays I buy my fish in a can or pre-packed for me. I've done 4 lifetimes worth of killing stuff, thanks all the same, geeky. It didn't make me any more (or less) manly a man.

FKT

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1 hour ago, Dilligaf0220 said:

I catch my own fish thanks.

And I don't need to cheat with a speargun, that's way too easy.

Shooting fish is easy.  Shooting the fish that taste good is not so easy.

Keep chowing down on your cans of pre-packed meat.  Google that shit and you'll probably quit eating seafood AND land meat altogether.

Spearfishing is not about being a "man", it's about acquiring the best quality seafood possible.  From the time I shoot my fish, it's properly bled and gutted so as to preserve the edible flesh.  Within minutes, it's on ice.  And then, once I've processed my catch, time to chill back with a brew. 

The comercial fishermen that catch YOUR fish merely flip them in the boat, thrashing about in a slow painful death roll, letting them die of asphyxiation.  It's the piscine equivalent of waterboarding.

I dispatch my quarry in an immediate, and humane manor.

Your fucking canned tuna can suck my dick.  I wouldn't eat that shit with YOUR mouth...

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14 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

The easiest way is to shoot 500m of gillnet, have a few beers, pick up the net, discard the unwanted species, then have some more beers.

Used to do that for a living some 30+ years back when we did fish species surveys.

Nowadays I buy my fish in a can or pre-packed for me. I've done 4 lifetimes worth of killing stuff, thanks all the same, geeky. It didn't make me any more (or less) manly a man.

FKT

My go to is trolling, not the most exciting but almost guaranteed to catch something.

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13 hours ago, thereefgeek said:

Shooting fish is easy.  Shooting the fish that taste good is not so easy.

Keep chowing down on your cans of pre-packed meat.  Google that shit and you'll probably quit eating seafood AND land meat altogether.

Spearfishing is not about being a "man", it's about acquiring the best quality seafood possible.  From the time I shoot my fish, it's properly bled and gutted so as to preserve the edible flesh.  Within minutes, it's on ice.  And then, once I've processed my catch, time to chill back with a brew. 

The comercial fishermen that catch YOUR fish merely flip them in the boat, thrashing about in a slow painful death roll, letting them die of asphyxiation.  It's the piscine equivalent of waterboarding.

I dispatch my quarry in an immediate, and humane manor.

Your fucking canned tuna can suck my dick.  I wouldn't eat that shit with YOUR mouth...

Do you enjoy a nice glass of pinot grigio with your fish?  If so - mebbe ya oughta have a glass or 4 before your next post, it seems that you're getting a bit worked up over not very much. 

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On 8/24/2018 at 12:08 AM, CapnK said:

Uma is makin da moolah hand over fist, apparently... In the latest video they take delivery of a dozen 12V 100Ah LiFePO4 batteries. These sell for almost US$1,000 *each*.

So they make 6 vid's and the batts are paid for. Thanks, patreons!
 

 

I suspect they didn't pay full retail price considering how prominently the manufacturer name is displayed...

Nevertheless good on them, they are rather smart IMHO, they seem to be responsible sailors, the DIY tends to be interesting , it is the only sailing vlog that I watch at the moment.

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8 hours ago, Panoramix said:

I suspect they didn't pay full retail price considering how prominently the manufacturer name is displayed...

Nevertheless good on them, they are rather smart IMHO, they seem to be responsible sailors, the DIY tends to be interesting , it is the only sailing vlog that I watch at the moment.

Yeah and after all of that, they've increased their range under power from maybe 2 nm (15 minutes at 5 knots) to maybe 25 nm (5 hours at 5 knots). Both scenarios resulting in dead flat batteries at the end with no way of recharging fast.

Be still my beating heart......

FKT

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1 hour ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Yeah and after all of that, they've increased their range under power from maybe 2 nm (15 minutes at 5 knots) to maybe 25 nm (5 hours at 5 knots). Both scenarios resulting in dead flat batteries at the end with no way of recharging fast.

Be still my beating heart......

FKT

5 knots is probably too fast for "long distance" motoring. But it's true that a boat like this one will have a 200Nm @5 knots range with a 50l tank and a 2 cylinder engine. You can't really compare though as unlike diesel tanks, battery recharge themselves away from a petrol station. If you plan to motor for hours on passages the electric drive will be useless but for punctual use the electric might work better. When I was a kid refuelling for my dad either meant going through a lock twice and motoring/sailing 2 hours or driving to a station, filling jugs then carrying the fuel to the boat rowing a small tender, in this case assuming it had been possible electric might have worked better for him. If battery prices keep going down we will see more electric boats IMO.

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36 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

5 knots is probably too fast for "long distance" motoring. But it's true that a boat like this one will have a 200Nm @5 knots range with a 50l tank and a 2 cylinder engine. You can't really compare though as unlike diesel tanks, battery recharge themselves away from a petrol station. If you plan to motor for hours on passages the electric drive will be useless but for punctual use the electric might work better. When I was a kid refuelling for my dad either meant going through a lock twice and motoring/sailing 2 hours or driving to a station, filling jugs then carrying the fuel to the boat rowing a small tender, in this case assuming it had been possible electric might have worked better for him. If battery prices keep going down we will see more electric boats IMO.

My friends in a 15 tonne carvel planked cutter motor at 5 knots in a dead calm and burn 1.5 litres/hour. That's their sweet spot on the fuel-distance curve. The owner/builder is a retired pilot so trust me, he understands the issues WRT fuel burn rate and distance covered.

If you're doing short hops from reliable recharge point to point then sure, electric drives start making sense. For cruising boats, no. Not yet. Need better energy density and that still doesn't address the recharge problem.

Do the maths on how long it's going to take to recharge a depleted 14kW battery bank via solar and wind...... you better have an awful lot of deck space for the panels and a decent wind genny.

Hybrid diesel-electric drives make more sense. If you have the room and want the complication.

FKT

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You obviously don't want to recharge just with solar panels, the obvious solution is to use the electric motor as a dynamo to recharge the batteries while sailing. That can only work for a boat with a decent amount of sail area with a crew who like sailing and happy to wait for the wind from time to time.

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2 hours ago, Panoramix said:

You obviously don't want to recharge just with solar panels, the obvious solution is to use the electric motor as a dynamo to recharge the batteries while sailing. That can only work for a boat with a decent amount of sail area with a crew who like sailing and happy to wait for the wind from time to time.

Oh yes - and what sort of electrical motor is suitable for such a task? How big a prop is going to be dragged to get the rotational energy?

It's a field of interest to me because I have quite a lot of 3 phase motors about the place and more than a few variable frequency drives as well. It's not simple/easy to back-drive them, in fact for a lot of the VFD's an attempt to do so will result in them dumping the excess into big resistors as heat. If that doesn't work well enough the magic smoke escapes.

So just what sort of motor are you referring to? I haven't watched the earlier episodes so don't know what they fitted.

FKT

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9 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Oh yes - and what sort of electrical motor is suitable for such a task? How big a prop is going to be dragged to get the rotational energy?

It's a field of interest to me because I have quite a lot of 3 phase motors about the place and more than a few variable frequency drives as well. It's not simple/easy to back-drive them, in fact for a lot of the VFD's an attempt to do so will result in them dumping the excess into big resistors as heat. If that doesn't work well enough the magic smoke escapes.

So just what sort of motor are you referring to? I haven't watched the earlier episodes so don't know what they fitted.

FKT

On our 29ft boat we have a brushed electrical motor 5kw that runs @48v . When under sail the prop (3 blade 12x12R) spins and recharges the battery at a rate of about 1.5-2ah if going 5 or more knots through the controller. It obviously makes sense only for longer passages 72hrs or more, so if point A and point B are reasonably distant I can expect to have topped up the power I used to depart and have enough to approach the next harbor-destination. If I departed under sail then I use the power generated for house loads using a 48vto12v converter. It is nice to do so especially at night when the sun is off. Also with a 48v wind generator we keep good care of batteries when windy, especially if we sit at anchor in a place where the trade winds blow. Not enough deck space for solar panels so we keep a separate 12v battery bank.

We have Trojan t-125 6v 240ah, wired in series to make 48v. after 5 years they are still doing OK.

- our schedule is flexible, if there is no wind we don't go

-if there is no wind offshore we just drift around and read books. If ships or floating obstacles show up we just moved out of the way then resume bobbing around.

- Time of departure from harbor depends on weather and tides

- Harbor approach depends on weather and tide. If necessary we hove to waiting for tide or if possible we go to the next harbor/inlet

- We are extremely slow. We have 10 miles range @2.5kts, we carry a portable gas generator to extend range a little bit when needed and as emergency recharge (with lead acid we don't let the voltage sit low for too long)

- We use battery power to a maximum of 60% Depth of Discharge, but in reality we try not to use it at all and only sail. We learned to set and retrieve anchor under sail, and we do it every time it's possible.

Electrical propulsion has huge limitations. I would not recommend it for cruising boats above 12000lbs displacement, especially for sailboat designs that favor internal space over sailing capabilities, then it becomes expensive and makes less and less sense. However I met people with expensive set ups (50ft catamaran using hybrid electric) and set aside the price tag, it seemed a very well done system that satisfied the motoring need of the owners.

Yeah, electric propulsion sucks, but we own a sailboat so there are way around it.

 

 

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11 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Oh yes - and what sort of electrical motor is suitable for such a task? How big a prop is going to be dragged to get the rotational energy?

It's a field of interest to me because I have quite a lot of 3 phase motors about the place and more than a few variable frequency drives as well. It's not simple/easy to back-drive them, in fact for a lot of the VFD's an attempt to do so will result in them dumping the excess into big resistors as heat. If that doesn't work well enough the magic smoke escapes.

So just what sort of motor are you referring to? I haven't watched the earlier episodes so don't know what they fitted.

FKT

First of all I am not an electrical engineer (I do structures), so I would need to refresh my memory before designing such a system. Looking at the video, ISTR that the motor they use is an industrial induction motor they got second hand with some kind of VFD to control the speed. The VFD can be set in a recharge position reversing the motor into an alternator.

If you are interested I recommend reading their blog entry on the subject which is well documented : https://www.sailinguma.com/electro-beke

That's their motor :

Motor+Label.jpg?format=1500w

If you like tinkering and documenting yourself, you'll probably manage to eventually cobble something together. At some point offered a turn key solution on their 30 footer.

I think that people use a propeller similar to what they would use with a diesel engine, at least I didn't notice a stupidly small or big propeller, may be it is worth optimising the pitch.

 

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1 hour duty cycle rating. Beggars can't be choosers but that's a little too light duty for my taste.

EDIT: I see they're driving it at 48V instead of 36V so it's a good thing they never claim to run it more than 30 minutes at a time. I just hope they're never in a situation where they'd need to.

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1 hour ago, IStream said:

1 hour duty cycle rating. Beggars can't be choosers but that's a little too light duty for my taste.

EDIT: I see they're driving it at 48V instead of 36V so it's a good thing they never claim to run it more than 30 minutes at a time. I just hope they're never in a situation where they'd need to.

Yeah that was the first thing that struck me when I saw that label. I can't believe anyone would do that, make a vlog about it and hold it up as something to emulate. If they run that thing for 5 hours feeding it 48V there's a real good chance the magic smoke will escape.

Also I'll bet money that's a DC motor with a DC controller, not an AC motor running speed-controlled via a VFD. It's a glorified treadmill motor. I'm not knocking the motor, a lot of sophisticated machine tools use big DC motors for the speed range and torque available, but it certainly wouldn't be my first choice.

If it is DC then it makes a bit more sense that it can back-feed the battery bank. Doing that with an AC motor is possible but it's complicated and moreso with a VFD as part of the system.

A 10HP single cylinder Bukh, Yanmar or similar would give them the same useful power and keep doing so for over a week or more.

FKT

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6 hours ago, IStream said:

1 hour duty cycle rating. Beggars can't be choosers but that's a little too light duty for my taste.

EDIT: I see they're driving it at 48V instead of 36V so it's a good thing they never claim to run it more than 30 minutes at a time. I just hope they're never in a situation where they'd need to.

is 1Hr really 1 hour? Wouldn't it be 1hr? according to google duty rating should be something like s1 s2 etc...

Not the clearest plate ISTR that the power rating is the most important and you can run some motors at higher voltage if driven at lower amps.

Also if it is 1hr, it probably means 1h @4.8kW so presumably you can run it longer at a lower power.

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The problem is that the windings have a fixed resistance so when you increase the voltage to 48VDC, you dissipate (48/36)^2 = 1.78 times as much power. I believe the duty cycle in this context means 1 hour of operation at rated power followed by 1 hour at rest. With the increased power dissipation at 48V, you wouldn't want to run it for more than 35 minutes at a time and even if you don't exceed that, the overvoltage is likely shortening the life of the motor.

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28 minutes ago, IStream said:

The problem is that the windings have a fixed resistance so when you increase the voltage to 48VDC, you dissipate (48/36)^2 = 1.78 times as much power. I believe the duty cycle in this context means 1 hour of operation at rated power followed by 1 hour at rest. With the increased power dissipation at 48V, you wouldn't want to run it for more than 35 minutes at a time and even if you don't exceed that, the overvoltage is likely shortening the life of the motor.

I don't think it is simple as that for the extra dissipated heat. The current will be regulated to obtain the desired shaft rpm and the necessary power at a certain rpm will be dependent of the propeller size and pitch. Thus at a certain speed, with a higher voltage, there will be less losses since I = P_required / U and P_heat = R_windings * I ^2

There is a reason why they use high voltage to transport electricity.

That's what I remember from my undergraduate studies a long time ago.... may be my memory played tricks to me!

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1 hour ago, IStream said:

The problem is that the windings have a fixed resistance so when you increase the voltage to 48VDC, you dissipate (48/36)^2 = 1.78 times as much power. I believe the duty cycle in this context means 1 hour of operation at rated power followed by 1 hour at rest. With the increased power dissipation at 48V, you wouldn't want to run it for more than 35 minutes at a time and even if you don't exceed that, the overvoltage is likely shortening the life of the motor.

It appears to be an electric forklift motor though I can't find an exact match. I wanted to know what RPM rating it had because running it slower will mean more heat buildup - one of the things AC motors designed to run via a VFD cater for by booster fans and higher temperature rated insulation because they get hot at lower Hz under load.

Anyway the spec sheets I could find clearly indicate that the 1 hour rating is exactly that.

Those motors take a ton of abuse in a forklift but the use tends to be intermittent under anything approaching full load so how long it'll work for in a boat - ????

Happy that I'm not paying for the experiment. I'll watch & see how it all works out.

FKT

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7 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Yeah that was the first thing that struck me when I saw that label. I can't believe anyone would do that, make a vlog about it and hold it up as something to emulate.

It is difficult to fathom the reasoning behind these auxiliary brain explosions that people proudly go to print on. It might be understandable for instance if they were championing something like coupling LFP's stored energy with with the stored energy of say LPG/Propane with a energy density of say 55 MJ/kg compared to diesel at 45 MJ/kg but more environmentally friendly...or go the whole hog and McGyver up a small nuclear drive.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

It is difficult to fathom the reasoning behind these auxiliary brain explosions that people proudly go to print on. It might be understandable for instance if they were championing something like coupling LFP's stored energy with with the stored energy of say LPG/Propane with a energy density of say 55 MJ/kg compared to diesel at 45 MJ/kg but more environmentally friendly...or go the whole hog and McGyver up a small nuclear drive.

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I think the answer is simple - their lack of education and knowledge about science/engineering means that their opinion is worth more than yours and facts are simply an inconvenient distraction from their desired reality.

Not worth arguing with them any more than it is with the anti-vaxxers or other conspiracy theory types. I tend to try to explain and when I hit the wall, I just nod and say off you go, then, try your pet ideas and see how you get on.

Their education is going to be a lot more painful & expensive than it had to be - assuming they learn at all - but that's the cost of thinking an internet opinion is equal to an engineer's calculations.

Personally I'd love the small nuke power plant - I'd be first in line to install the electric drive motors then. But as you point out, the energy density problem combined with a severe space constraint means an all-electric system is most certainly going to have a very restricted range compared with a liquid fuel system.

Now if you know this, accept the limitations and make it clear that you're doing it anyway, go for it. It just seems that so many don't realise what they're doing WRT limiting their range under power and the extensive recharge time.

FKT

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