Ajax 2,124 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 These people do not adopt a sailor's life. They attempt to cram their dirt life into a boat. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kris Cringle 1,246 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Just now, Ajax said: These people do not adopt a sailor's life. They attempt to cram their dirt life into a boat. Not too surprising. 'Living the dream' is easy thanks to Youtube. It gives you all the nuts and bolts of learning the sailing life. An endless stream of mis-information, sailing is finally taking off as a lifestyle. I wouldn't be surprised if Chris Craft started making fiberglass sailboats again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ajax 2,124 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 1 minute ago, Kris Cringle said: I wouldn't be surprised if Chris Craft started making fiberglass sailboats again. Never happen. The key part of this "lifestyle" is the unending supply of shit boats that can be had for free or nearly so. You think any of these van-lifers would actually pay for something? These folks are literally living off of the discards and detritus of more prosperous people. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
alphafb552 545 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 11 minutes ago, leuk said: ... That fridge, geez. Do they plan to surrender the forward cabin to the batteries, too? No, they'll have a cheap portable generator running 24/7 on deck Quote Link to post Share on other sites
leuk 151 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 5 minutes ago, alphafb552 said: No, they'll have a cheap portable generator running 24/7 on deck You're not even joking, at this point. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toddster 510 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Easy to see why... prices on even crappy old used vans around here are double the price of crappy old sailboats these days. Or more. And I haven't even been able to find any crappy old boat ads on Craigslist to mock this year. Either they've all sunk or people are holding on to them. Of course, it's possible that I've sunk so low that nothing looks very crappy to me any more. The van-lifers flood our waterfront in the summer, but there are half a dozen or so that seem to be sticking it out year-round. Even though the toilets and showers are closed because of COVID. One guy literally has a portable generator (not one of the quiet ones) lashed to his bumper. It runs 24/7/365. If that isn't enough to draw the attention of the authorities, or even some vigilantes, IDK what is. You'd think that some of the more well-heeled campers would take up a collection and present him with a Harbor Freight inverter-generator. But I guess their TV's and stereos are all cranked up so loud that it doesn't bother them. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ajax 2,124 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 54 minutes ago, toddster said: Easy to see why... prices on even crappy old used vans around here are double the price of crappy old sailboats these days. Or more. And I haven't even been able to find any crappy old boat ads on Craigslist to mock this year. Either they've all sunk or people are holding on to them. Of course, it's possible that I've sunk so low that nothing looks very crappy to me any more. The van-lifers flood our waterfront in the summer, but there are half a dozen or so that seem to be sticking it out year-round. Even though the toilets and showers are closed because of COVID. One guy literally has a portable generator (not one of the quiet ones) lashed to his bumper. It runs 24/7/365. If that isn't enough to draw the attention of the authorities, or even some vigilantes, IDK what is. You'd think that some of the more well-heeled campers would take up a collection and present him with a Harbor Freight inverter-generator. But I guess their TV's and stereos are all cranked up so loud that it doesn't bother them. There's so much wrong with this but my response would veer into the political, so I will abstain. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toddster 510 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Oh, sorry. Had my grumpy old man face on this morning. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Corryvreckan 239 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 6 hours ago, Elegua said: I'll be the first to say that possession of ice is the true mark of civilization, but that just goes too far, man... I wonder if they'll slowly go insane in the tropics like Harrison Ford in the Mosquito Coast. More likely, the fridge will come loose in a knockdown, and they'll have a big rectangular hole in the hull like American Magic. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ajax 2,124 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 47 minutes ago, toddster said: Oh, sorry. Had my grumpy old man face on this morning. No, no. You're not the problem. It's the people you describe. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ishmael 6,629 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 6 hours ago, leuk said: It's always a wonder, to me, seeing those free, adventurous couples, getting hold of relatively unexpensive, minimalist sailboats to go out there "in the wild". And then proceed to stuff it with the commodities you'd find in a well rated hotel suit. Frugality is an elusive concept, I guess. That fridge, geez. Do they plan to surrender the forward cabin to the batteries, too? Well, something has to power all those sex toys. The surrendered man thing mate is only good for appliance hauling. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kris Cringle 1,246 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 It's an epidemic. Sailing and Cruising Scotland group has posted this new rule: Personal Vlog promotion. Only one vlog (YouTube link) post per person per fortnight. You should also interact with anyone commenting on the post. If you don't interact we will see it as using the group for your own personal gain. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Weyalan 320 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 38 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said: Personal Vlog promotion. Only one vlog (YouTube link) post per person per fortnight. You should also interact with anyone commenting on the post. If you don't interact we will see it as using the group for your own personal gain. Bravo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Israel Hands 653 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 Sometimes the one-off videos are more entertaining than the vlogs. I just like the title of this one Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Elegua 950 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 28 minutes ago, Israel Hands said: Sometimes the one-off videos are more entertaining than the vlogs. I just like the title of this one Well that escalated quickly, 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Corryvreckan 239 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 1 hour ago, Israel Hands said: Sometimes the one-off videos are more entertaining than the vlogs. I just like the title of this one 35 minutes ago, Elegua said: Well that escalated quickly, I watched this one popped up in my suggestions a couple of days ago. The title had me expecting some sort of insight from the experience. But alas, it was just a shitshow. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Israel Hands 653 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 This article suggests to me that van life in the US is code for damn-near homeless https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/feb/04/modern-nomads-nomadland-van-life-us-public-lands 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blurocketsmate 87 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 ^^^ Somebody had to: 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Elegua 950 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 24 minutes ago, Corryvreckan said: I watched this one popped up in my suggestions a couple of days ago. The title had me expecting some sort of insight from the experience. But alas, it was just a shitshow. I keep my expectations low, so this was cheep entertainment. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toddster 510 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 11 minutes ago, Israel Hands said: This article suggests to me that van life in the US is code for damn-near homeless https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/feb/04/modern-nomads-nomadland-van-life-us-public-lands It's quite a continuum - from gleaming 45-foot land yachts (with their own fleets of auxiliary craft) down to the hatchback with plywood in the window and bald tires. Sometimes all on display at once on the waterfront. But it's true that there are big stretches of BLM land not far away full of semi-permanent campers. Some don't even have tents. They work shifts at fast food places and resorts but don't earn get paid anything like enough money for housing. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ajax 2,124 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 1 hour ago, Israel Hands said: Sometimes the one-off videos are more entertaining than the vlogs. I just like the title of this one I pray that I have more situational awareness than this when I set off for Maine next summer. My takeaways: - Too slow to prepare the ship. Weather obviously deteriorating in the distance. - Too many unproductive people in the cockpit. Send the NUBs (Non-Usable Bodies) down below. - Untethered (not really surprising, it's a charter boat after all. Hence the reason to send extra bodies down below where it's safe.) - Failure to note the forecast? Or was this really a pop-up storm? - If this was a short, pop-up storm, why not heave-to and lay below decks until it passed? The time indexes were all the same day. I think this was a case of "But shelter is right over there! We must reach it!" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rustylaru 58 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 41 minutes ago, Ajax said: I pray that I have more situational awareness than this when I set off for Maine next summer. My takeaways: - Too slow to prepare the ship. Weather obviously deteriorating in the distance. - Too many unproductive people in the cockpit. Send the NUBs (Non-Usable Bodies) down below. - Untethered (not really surprising, it's a charter boat after all. Hence the reason to send extra bodies down below where it's safe.) - Failure to note the forecast? Or was this really a pop-up storm? - If this was a short, pop-up storm, why not heave-to and lay below decks until it passed? The time indexes were all the same day. I think this was a case of "But shelter is right over there! We must reach it!" And through it all they seem to have considered keeping the camera rolling a high priority. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fufkin 425 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 2 hours ago, Ajax said: I pray that I have more situational awareness than this when I set off for Maine next summer. My takeaways: - Too slow to prepare the ship. Weather obviously deteriorating in the distance. - Too many unproductive people in the cockpit. Send the NUBs (Non-Usable Bodies) down below. - Untethered (not really surprising, it's a charter boat after all. Hence the reason to send extra bodies down below where it's safe.) - Failure to note the forecast? Or was this really a pop-up storm? - If this was a short, pop-up storm, why not heave-to and lay below decks until it passed? The time indexes were all the same day. I think this was a case of "But shelter is right over there! We must reach it!" I've got a different take on it. If you look at the time stamps, he was sailing in prob 35knots and 5-10 minutes later it was doing 70. Put aside for a moment the question of whether he should have been out there at all, or didn't check the weather, and assume this was a surprise line squall or whatever weather affect might be happening off of Santorini. So your out there, have a good angle on your destination, your steady and reefed in 35 knots. You feel the wind starting to pick up. You call for the crew to furl the headsail(probably too late on that call and might've had less up even at 35knots). Furling headsail jams(notice how tight the furl had become in high winds). But the bottom line? Now yer fucked. To add to the fucked up ed ness, the wind is rising fast you've now entered bare pole country at over 50 knots, you've gotten rid of your mainsail, but have no control over a small blade of jib which is absolutely huge at 50 knots plus and is hindering your ability to control the boat. Rather inconveniently, you are directly upwind from a lee shore maybe 4-5 miles away with no control of your jib to effectively heave to with. Look at the waves at this point. You could fuck around trying to heave to with no control of the jib, and that distance between you and the shore could get eaten up pretty quickly. Even if you could heave to properly, that's a short distance to be from shore in that sea state. Once you've gone that route, any angle you once had(towards a gap to get behind the island) with seas on the quarter under bare poles(ideal) would start to diminish. You do not have the option to sail up wind in those conditions. Even if the wind drops a bit, you've got no headsail control. Basically, if the weather were to hold, you've rooked yourself. The decision to flog the sail and try to control the boat and run with the storm was probably the best option. Not sending an untethered martini crew up front to try and unfuck things was also a good decision. In the ensuing 10 minutes while the helmsman rodeo'd the boat, got semi knocked down and weebled back up, the martini crew had the presence of mind to A hang on for dear life, B call a pan pan, C relay the boats co-ordinates, and D don pfd's. Not bad so far. What next? Dunno. Apparently the helmsman, by the seat of his pants albeit, hit his target under bare poles, ducked behind the island, and E the martini crew was free to hoist something they're more familiar with, safe and sound. I'll concede that tethers and sending unneeded crew down below(though that could have its own safety issues at the point of repeated knock down or broaching) would've been ideal in a very non ideal situation that unfolded rather quickly. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sculpin 113 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 On 2/3/2021 at 8:24 AM, Ajax said: I find his new found honesty refreshing instead of always trying to appease everyone. I've decided I want @dylan winter to write my obituary...or at least the epitaph on my tombstone. Our local political cartoonist, Michael DeAdder, recently wrote his mother's obituary. It is awesome. An excerpt: Marilyn loved all children who weren't her own and loved her own children relative to how clean-shaven they were. She excelled at giving the finger, taking no shit and laughing at jokes, preferably in the shade of blue. She did not excel at suffering fools, hiding her disdain, and putting her car in reverse. A voracious reader, she loved true crime, romance novels and theodd political book. Trained as a hairdresser before she was married, she was always doing somebody's hair in her kitchen, so much so her kitchen smelled of baking and perm solution. Marilyn had a busy life, but no matter what she was doing she always made time to run her kids' lives as well. Her lifelong hobbies included painting, quilting, baking, gardening, hiking and arson. Marilyn loved tea and toast. The one thing she loved more than tea and toast was reheated tea and toast. She reheated tea by simply turning on the burner often forgetting about it. She burned many a teapot and caused smoke damage countless times, leaving her kids with the impression that fanning the smoke alarm was a step in brewing tea. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chester 785 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 9 minutes ago, sculpin said: Our local political cartoonist, Michael DeAdder, recently wrote his mother's obituary. It is awesome. An excerpt: Marilyn loved all children who weren't her own and loved her own children relative to how clean-shaven they were. She excelled at giving the finger, taking no shit and laughing at jokes, preferably in the shade of blue. She did not excel at suffering fools, hiding her disdain, and putting her car in reverse. A voracious reader, she loved true crime, romance novels and theodd political book. Trained as a hairdresser before she was married, she was always doing somebody's hair in her kitchen, so much so her kitchen smelled of baking and perm solution. Marilyn had a busy life, but no matter what she was doing she always made time to run her kids' lives as well. Her lifelong hobbies included painting, quilting, baking, gardening, hiking and arson. Marilyn loved tea and toast. The one thing she loved more than tea and toast was reheated tea and toast. She reheated tea by simply turning on the burner often forgetting about it. She burned many a teapot and caused smoke damage countless times, leaving her kids with the impression that fanning the smoke alarm was a step in brewing tea. that's very sweet, thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dogscout 124 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 11 hours ago, Ajax said: I pray that I have more situational awareness than this when I set off for Maine next summer. My takeaways: - Too slow to prepare the ship. Weather obviously deteriorating in the distance. - Too many unproductive people in the cockpit. Send the NUBs (Non-Usable Bodies) down below. - Untethered (not really surprising, it's a charter boat after all. Hence the reason to send extra bodies down below where it's safe.) - Failure to note the forecast? Or was this really a pop-up storm? - If this was a short, pop-up storm, why not heave-to and lay below decks until it passed? The time indexes were all the same day. I think this was a case of "But shelter is right over there! We must reach it!" Welcome to Katabatic winds in the Med. I'd say other than not knowing how to secure the jib, this crew did well in the situation. I do somewhat agree with the too many in the cockpit, but then sending them down below screaming in fear is not always a good choice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
European Bloke 509 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 I've done quite a lot of different sailing in quite a lot of different places. A very small amount of my sailing has been in the Med but a disproportionate amount of my horror stories have been there. It can be a bastard of a place. It goes very bad, very quickly, often with little forecast. The warning signs are quite different from many other places, so if you're not familiar with it it can be more difficult. Add charter boats into the mix, with crap gear that doesn't work and it's brutal. No excusing the fuckwittery in that video, just going some way to explaining it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ajax 2,124 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 My intention isn't to crap on these people. My intention is to see if I correctly analyzed what they did wrong, so that I will also not make the same mistakes. Regarding the jammed furler, that falls under my very first point- "Too slow to prepare the ship, weather visibly deteriorating in the distance." The time to furl the jib in most of the way was *before* conditions deteriorated. If the furler jammed in calmer conditions, they may have had an opportunity to unjam the furler or drop the jib altogether. Also, at 1:47, I feel that they furled the wrong way by pinching upwind. The flogging action can jam the furler. They should have fallen off to keep the jib full and steady. They certainly had enough bodies to haul on the furling line. I know that people crammed down below may be frightened and puking their guts out but that beats losing them over the side forever. I don't fault them for the lack of tethers. I seriously doubt that charters are routinely equipped with harnesses and tether or that they are inspected often. The lack of tethers is why you send non-working passengers below decks. I'm not analyzing whether they "should not have even been out there." Insufficient information. No forecast provided in the video so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that this was an unforecast, localized disturbance. I still feel that the root cause of most of the meltdown was being driven by an instinctive desire to beat the weather to shelter, hence the delay in reducing sail. @Dogscout When the katabatic winds blow, is it a short, localized disturbance or does the air spill off the land for long periods of time? Days? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
European Bloke 509 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Your not going to unfuck a fuck up sitting on your arse in the cockpit winching shit. Leaving things flogging while you panic will always escalate. If it wasn't broken or jammed before it soon will be. They could have got that sail unfurled and dropped if they put some effort in before it destroyed itself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dogscout 124 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Bursts. Have not heard of it lasting very long, not days. I've seen 40 minutes of sheer terror at night in a harbor, anchor dragging, boats all over the place playing bumper cars. I have not yet been caught out in one like they were seeing. Did you notice that even with a shredded jib they were healed over with the port rail in the water and about everyone aboard on the starboard. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Israel Hands 653 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 29 minutes ago, Ajax said: My intention is to see if I correctly analyzed what they did wrong, so that I will also not make the same mistakes. That's what made the clip interesting. Easy to picture being on holiday in unfamiliar waters and getting totally surprised by the katabatic wind - something I've read about but not experienced. Had to watch it twice to realize how quickly things deteriorated. I think I would have had everyone don the PFDs at least as quick if not quicker than the skipper did, and would've ordered all but 2 crew to go below. I'd have been worried as Hell about that lee shore, and definitely would've kept the lady from standing on the rail. But frankly can't know if I'd have been able to foresee and get that jib completely furled before all Hell broke loose. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dogscout 124 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 I think its important to realize that this crew is on holiday in a charter boat and not greatly experienced in sailing and that boat in general. This is their 3 hour tour. Its a vacation that is supposed to be fun. All of a sudden it turns pear-shaped and they did all of the right things. Reduce sail, PFDs, radio pan pan, etc. Was it fast and efficient? Of course not. They are on holiday and have just enough experience to charter a boat. We can arm chair quarterback this ad nauseum, but they are all still alive, not injuried, new experience, insurance buys new jib. I give them credit for what they did in a situation they unlikely expected. 9 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Elegua 950 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 That's the harder part of seamanship isn't it? Having this foresight to see shit coming so you never have to use your seamanship to get out it. And how to do that and not suck the interest/pleasure/fun/comfort out of everything. Also, I'm of belief that when in doubt, bail out to sea. It's the land that hurts. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ajax 2,124 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 15 minutes ago, Elegua said: That's the harder part of seamanship isn't it? Having this foresight to see shit coming so you never have to use your seamanship to get out it. And how to do that and not suck the interest/pleasure/fun/comfort out of everything. Yes, absolutely. Sometimes I wish I didn't know as much as I did because I do tend to worry overmuch, now. I'll likely be singlehanding to Maine. I hope my foresight is far enough ahead. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Elegua 950 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 8 minutes ago, Ajax said: Yes, absolutely. Sometimes I wish I didn't know as much as I did because I do tend to worry overmuch, now. I'll likely be singlehanding to Maine. I hope my foresight is far enough ahead. I'm confident you'll be fine. Sure, mistakes will probably be made and stuff may get broken. But that's the game. I always thought this graph was interesting and the surprising part to me is how many hours it takes to get back to the baseline accident rate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ajax 2,124 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 I don't have many offshore hours. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Elegua 950 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 minutes ago, Ajax said: I don't have many offshore hours. I interpret it to mean the 3rd or 4th time you do the trip and you get comfortable offshore the risk is highest. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ajax 2,124 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 4 minutes ago, Elegua said: I interpret it to mean the 3rd or 4th time you do the trip and you get comfortable offshore the risk is highest. Ah, I see. Yeah, I won't have fallen into the complacency trap by this trip. I'll probably be tele-nagging you all for weather advice before I make the jump into the Atlantic. I am getting excited. Only 5 months away and the boat is in fine shape. I scored a 3mm full wetsuit on Craig's in case I have to unfoul the running gear of lobstah pots. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Keffer 52 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 hours ago, Ajax said: My intention isn't to crap on these people. My intention is to see if I correctly analyzed what they did wrong, so that I will also not make the same mistakes. Regarding the jammed furler, that falls under my very first point- "Too slow to prepare the ship, weather visibly deteriorating in the distance." I could be wrong, but it's possible the furler didn't jam, it just ran out of furling line. That's easy to do when trying to furl a sail in a big wind. It furls very tight, requiring much more line to pull it all in. They could have tried again, this time while not pulling so hard on the sheets. Or, drop the sail. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Israel Hands 653 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 12 minutes ago, Tom Keffer said: They could have tried again, this time while not pulling so hard on the sheets. you're having a momentary brain cramp - they were furling not unfurling Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Elegua 950 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 14 minutes ago, Ajax said: Ah, I see. Yeah, I won't have fallen into the complacency trap by this trip. I'll probably be tele-nagging you all for weather advice before I make the jump into the Atlantic. I am getting excited. Only 5 months away and the boat is in fine shape. I scored a 3mm full wetsuit on Craig's in case I have to unfoul the running gear of lobstah pots. Dude, we can't wait for you to get up here. It'll be cool to get some texts/calls while you're coming up. Get a hood and some booties (ideally with the felt sole for standing on rocks). Game changer for comfort. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
European Bloke 509 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, Israel Hands said: you're having a momentary brain cramp - they were furling not unfurling That was his point. The load on the sail means they were getting a very tight furl. If that was the case they could run out of turns on the furler drum before the sail was fully furled. Either that or they could have started winding the line and pulled the turns on the furler drum into each other and locked the whole thing up. Won't furl, won't unfurl. At that point you knife the line close to the drum, unfurl the sail and drop it. Bastard job on a shitter like that, but much the same as dropping a sail in a headfoil. We do all the time on a racing yacht. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snowden 332 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, European Bloke said: knife the line close to the drum ... we do all the time on a racing yacht you are doing something wrong if that's a frequent occurrence 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fufkin 425 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, Tom Keffer said: I could be wrong, but it's possible the furler didn't jam, it just ran out of furling line. That's easy to do when trying to furl a sail in a big wind. It furls very tight, requiring much more line to pull it all in. They could have tried again, this time while not pulling so hard on the sheets. Or, drop the sail. I was thinking the same thing when I first watched the video, given how tightly the sail was wrapped around the foil. It's difficult to tell for sure, but you can see the furling drum after the 'jam' and it appears to have a bit of 'white' on it which might be furling line. Nevertheless, probably a good chance that still might not have been enough line left to fully furl. If we're all looking for a takeaway, maybe that's a reminder to periodically check how much slack is in the furling system, as you can lose some after sailing in high winds. Having enough line for maybe three wraps around the drum and two wraps of the sheets around the forestay in furled position is pretty good insurance that you won't run out of line after sailing partially furled in high winds. It's disappointing to see a furled sail at dock or anchor with a tiny bit of clew hanging out...that's definitely bad prep(unless its a system where the clew board prevents it and its not possible). 1 hour ago, Israel Hands said: you're having a momentary brain cramp - they were furling not unfurling I think what Tom is referring to is the chance that the guy at the furling line winch might've got ahead of the guy at the primary winch. In winds like that co-ordination between the two crew is key... enough tension on the sheet so that it doesn't flog but not so much that you're over tightening the sail around the foil, which could lead to running out of furling line...or even some kind of over ride/under ride/snag on the drum itself. Bearing off a bit can help but in those conditions you've gotta be wary of broaching. For the record, IMHO, at the point these guys were at, trying to fix the situation by unfurling and taking down the sail probably would've been a step backwards and led to a whole lot more problems. The luckiest thing that happened to them was when the jammed sail blew out. You can even hear one of the crew or the helmsmen off camera breath a sigh of relief when the sail finally blew and allowed them to regain a bit of control under bare poles. Hope I'm not over armchair ing this and agree with Dogscout...the situation kinda has to be looked at in the context of a charter afternoon that got nailed. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
European Bloke 509 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 9 minutes ago, Snowden said: you are doing something wrong if that's a frequent occurrence Good job with the quote cutting. You should be in politics or the tabloid media. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Israel Hands 653 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 17 minutes ago, fufkin said: which could lead to running out of furling line OK oops, I misunderstood, he meant running out of line on the drum. 24 minutes ago, fufkin said: For the record, IMHO, at the point these guys were at, trying to fix the situation by unfurling and taking down the sail probably would've been a step backwards and led to a whole lot more problems. The luckiest thing that happened to them was when the jammed sail blew out. that's probably right Round the corner from where we live is a point which produces quite a venturi effect with the far shore when the wind picks up. Most of the time it's fun sailing for locals, but unsuspecting boats can get caught in afternoon thunderstorms in a situation like the video. I've seen a cruiser disappear around the point, then reemerge a couple of hours later with a jib shredded just like that one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuso007 656 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 4 hours ago, European Bloke said: They could have got that sail unfurled and dropped if they put some effort in before it destroyed itself. Easier said than done, especially if you are not very experienced. I crossed the pond four times on a big tall ship, we had a chart with the wind limits, If certain sails were still flying above their wind limit, the order was let them get shredded, you don't send people to die up the masts. Same thing here, fuck the sail, don't risk a tourist life over it. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GMiller 34 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 I watched the whole video and the takeaway I got was that the women were keepers! I know mine would have had her full-on ferret face in place, but these two were down below munching in no time, smiles on! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zonker 2,979 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 If you run out of furling line, another option is head DDW, send somebody to the bow, release the end of the furling line and MANUALLY turn the drum. Had to do it myself when this happened. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snowden 332 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 hours ago, European Bloke said: Good job with the quote cutting. You should be in politics or the tabloid media. with your ability to edit posts after the fact we would both fit in well ;-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fah Kiew Tu 2,170 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 48 minutes ago, Zonker said: If you run out of furling line, another option is head DDW, send somebody to the bow, release the end of the furling line and MANUALLY turn the drum. Had to do it myself when this happened. Don't think I'd want to try that on my boat, out on the end of a 2.1m bowsprit in those conditions... Mine is a bit simpler though as it's got Wyckham-Martin type furling gear where the jib is not in a foil. I can drop the entire sail by slacking on the halyard and lash it to the rails. Some good points here - when I installed the sail a year ago I had enough furling line to get 2-3 wraps of the sheets around the furled sail. Now I can't. When I haul out I'll disconnect the sail and wind a few more turns onto the drum. FKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toddster 510 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Too much line on the drum is one reason it sometimes jams. Don't ask how I know... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zonker 2,979 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Furler makers seem always to make drums too small. Dumb place to shave pennies. If you don't have enough space on the drum for more wraps, use somethings skinnier like 5 or 6mm dyneema for the last section, from the drum to the cockpit - the part you never handle. I'm a cheap bastard and just pulled the core from a few meters of existing 10mm double braid and sewed it to the existing core and thru the cover in several places. But you could use rope with a polyester cover and dyneema core and strip the cover for last 20 or 30 feet and, leaving the core intact. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zenmasterfred 472 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 4 hours ago, Elegua said: I interpret it to mean the 3rd or 4th time you do the trip and you get comfortable offshore the risk is highest. It's like flying I think, new pilots are usually pretty careful, then you think you know it all, if you live through the middle hours of flight time you may then be a reasonably good pilot. Kind of like offshore sailing although noobs aren't required to go through flight training so the new ones are still pretty high risk without proper preparations gear wise and mentally. As those who have miles under their keels know shit happens at the most inconvenient times. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BayRacer 56 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 I suspect one of the reasons the furler wouldn't furl is that the lead on the sheet wasn't previously adjusted to match the 30% size or so of the sail still in use. Lead was way aft, tensioning foot but not top of sail. Maybe the charter boat had limited tracks, or more likely as other noted, the group had some basic sailing knowledge but not enough to know to move the car forward when sail got reefed down earlier. Also maybe limited hardware on board a charter boat-- you'd want to run a changing sheet with snatchblock to the rail or similar so you don't get flogged to death by slackened sheet if you had to manually move the car forward. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeJohns 52 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 On 2/5/2021 at 6:48 AM, Ajax said: I pray that I have more situational awareness than this when I set off for Maine next summer. My takeaways: - Too slow to prepare the ship. Weather obviously deteriorating in the distance. - Too many unproductive people in the cockpit. Send the NUBs (Non-Usable Bodies) down below. - Untethered (not really surprising, it's a charter boat after all. Hence the reason to send extra bodies down below where it's safe.) - Failure to note the forecast? Or was this really a pop-up storm? - If this was a short, pop-up storm, why not heave-to and lay below decks until it passed? The time indexes were all the same day. I think this was a case of "But shelter is right over there! We must reach it!" If you have sea room then head off. Stop the sail flogging and use the downwind speed to reduce apparent. That also tames the flogging sheets, they prevent safe work fwd. If no sea room put the bow through the wind and back the sail, heave to reduce the motion. Then sometimes you can throttle the sail spiral wrapping a rope halyard top down. 70 knots looks to be the absolute peak gust recorded not the wind speed. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cristoforo 437 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Back to these two heros - interesting they power washed the bottom paint off but used no water collection system or pollution prevention as required by law. What marina in the northeast would ever allow this nowadays? Must be something with those Man Buns and vloggers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
olaf hart 634 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Interestingly, this is a delayed video, the boat is out of the yard and back on the water.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cristoforo 437 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 2 minutes ago, olaf hart said: Interestingly, this is a delayed video, the boat is out of the yard and back on the water.... Really? People don’t wear hot pants stripping a bottom in New England in February? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cristoforo 437 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Here is a more recent one. Couple of cupcakes leave Mass in a Catalina 30 mid winter bound for Florida. Almost made it to Point Judith. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fah Kiew Tu 2,170 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 1 hour ago, Cristoforo said: Here is a more recent one. Couple of cupcakes leave Mass in a Catalina 30 mid winter bound for Florida. Almost made it to Point Judith. Anyone else notice the condition of the prop when they haul out? Wonder why they couldn't power their way off... FKT 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ishmael 6,629 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 1 hour ago, Cristoforo said: Really? People don’t wear hot pants stripping a bottom in New England in February? Only if they're on stage. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toddster 510 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 1 hour ago, Cristoforo said: Here is a more recent one. Couple of cupcakes leave Mass in a Catalina 30 mid winter bound for Florida. Almost made it to Point Judith. Nope. Nope. IDK why but I skimmed through that and watched the bits that weren't talking heads. And a couple of their others. So you don't have to. It doesn't get any better. Almost all talking heads. Tedious Emo Talking Heads. Built a custom pushpit/solar arch that actually looks pretty good. So maybe some skills there. But it looks WAY too big for a 30-foot boat. 1000 wats solar! Really? Discover that it's cold in winter, decide to abort trip. Wind blows in anchorage - homemade electric thingy breaks, anchor doesn't drop, big solar wing (?) pushes boat into rocks. Their friends also have problems with grounding inside marinas. They're doing it all for us. Thanks, but no thanks. Oh, oh... there's a blog too. Mercifully covered up by thumbnails in the video, but I'm a glutton for punishment. "I was working in the commercial film production world and Jake was studying filmmaking. " Guys, I have some really bad news... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fah Kiew Tu 2,170 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 2 hours ago, toddster said: Nope. Nope. IDK why but I skimmed through that and watched the bits that weren't talking heads. And a couple of their others. So you don't have to. It doesn't get any better. Almost all talking heads. Tedious Emo Talking Heads. Built a custom pushpit/solar arch that actually looks pretty good. So maybe some skills there. But it looks WAY too big for a 30-foot boat. 1000 wats solar! Really? Discover that it's cold in winter, decide to abort trip. Wind blows in anchorage - homemade electric thingy breaks, anchor doesn't drop, big solar wing (?) pushes boat into rocks. Their friends also have problems with grounding inside marinas. They're doing it all for us. Thanks, but no thanks. Oh, oh... there's a blog too. Mercifully covered up by thumbnails in the video, but I'm a glutton for punishment. "I was working in the commercial film production world and Jake was studying filmmaking. " Guys, I have some really bad news... Yeah - I skimmed it hoping to get details of what went wrong, if their engine had run out of electrical thingies or whatever. Too many talking heads saying nothing much except about their feelings. Fuck your feelings, I want the tech data. The boat looked fine on haulout anyway, can't see what their problem is. Maybe someone could suggest that cleaning the prop and painting it with something like Propspeed might be of some benefit if you want to actually get any thrust from it... FKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toddster 510 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 The only info I could glean was from voice-over during the haul-out footage in the last minute. Said the throttle handle broke off in his hand. The solar wing/sail (six panels plus sailboards on the ass of a 30-footer!) just looks like a bad idea to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dogscout 124 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 8 hours ago, Cristoforo said: Here is a more recent one. Couple of cupcakes leave Mass in a Catalina 30 mid winter bound for Florida. Almost made it to Point Judith. This is why the future of sailing will decline. These three idiot cupcakes dont have the common sense of a earthworm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jud - s/v Sputnik 946 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 On 2/4/2021 at 11:24 AM, blurocketsmate said: ^^^ Somebody had to: UK Subs - don’t remember? 1980-something 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
qwerty57 15 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Ok, this channel doesn't have women in bikinis and they don't sail in a tropical paradise and there isn't much drama, but it still find their videos to be very watchable: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Blitz 89 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Check out Ship Happens for a real trainwreck. Ww2 boat on a mudflat literally falling apart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CapnK 109 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Someone needs to asplain to them that centrifuged oyster spit does NOT create thrust... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
2airishuman 119 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Here you go. More sailing than most youtube sailing videos. Better production values. Cool wooden boats. And moar tits. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Corryvreckan 239 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 On 2/5/2021 at 8:06 PM, Cristoforo said: Here is a more recent one. Couple of cupcakes leave Mass in a Catalina 30 mid winter bound for Florida. Almost made it to Point Judith. Is it possible they were aiming for some sort of homage to (and/or parody of) one of those "found footage" style of film? Like maybe the Blair Witch project, but in a boat? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheDragon 586 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 If they talked any slower they would be as comatose as me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mathystuff 375 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 12 minutes ago, Corryvreckan said: Is it possible they were aiming for some sort of homage to (and/or parody of) one of those "found footage" style of film? Like maybe the Blair Witch project, but in a boat? I think it was deliberately and masterfully crafted to induce depression and existential angst. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ishmael 6,629 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 2 hours ago, mathystuff said: I think it was deliberately and masterfully crafted to induce depression and existential angst. Like a poetry reading of Immanuel Kant. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zonker 2,979 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Black Sails had more hot lesbian pirate sex than I've ever seen. But the CGI ships sucked so hard. I drove past the set in S.Africa 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dogscout 124 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 28 minutes ago, Zonker said: Black Sails had more hot lesbian pirate sex than I've ever seen. But the CGI ships sucked so hard. I drove past the set in S.Africa Black sails was fun to watch but not as much as Boobs and Dragons. But I digress Those 3 idiots washing up on shore was the best thing to happen to them since they got participation trophys in tee-ball. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
alphafb552 545 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 8 hours ago, TheDragon said: If they talked any slower they would be as comatose as me. I played it at 1.5 times normal speed and still nearly died of boredom... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cristoforo 437 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 10 hours ago, TheDragon said: If they talked any slower they would be as comatose as me. Yes, but they do it with an understated sense of rainbow flamboyance Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Israel Hands 653 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Okay this is 30 seconds of nonsense. But I keep wondering where this took place? And whether it was a one-time bit of insanity that ended up on the beach...or some crazy break at the entrance of an inlet? Starts at 0:55: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
deep c 20 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Looks like going into the Ala Wai in Honolulu 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CapnK 109 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 5 hours ago, deep c said: Looks like going into the Ala Wai in Honolulu Yep, Diamond Head in the distance, and the surfers in the background would be out riding Ala Moana Bowls. I'd like to see the next few minutes, if that wasn't the last wave of a set. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MauiPunter 769 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 1 hour ago, CapnK said: Yep, Diamond Head in the distance, and the surfers in the background would be out riding Ala Moana Bowls. I'd like to see the next few minutes, if that wasn't the last wave of a set. I've seen so much carnage there over the years when the break is closing out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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