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Steve and Dave Clarks Unidentified Foiling Object


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Andy, the normal method to reduce main foil depth is to drill a 1/4" hole. 

The location behind the front of the foil should be the same as the hole at the top, mine was 1.875".

The distance down from the original hole is the bigger question.  I did 12" down but think I would be happier with a little more.  I think around 2' down from the original hole would be close to the max would want to go.  When planning to sail in shallow water you will need to adjust the rudder foil to be just a little below the main foil and pulling the rudder up more than 2' makes handling much more of a challenge. 

The other big change I made for running in shallows is a rudder rake adjuster modification.  I replaced the big adjusting nut with a 1/4" wingnut, and added provisions to pull the pintle reward up near the top.   I have been through several versions and am not completely happy with what I have, but I do not have to worry about bending the adjuster rod due to russer  groundings anymore.  The photos below are lousy (I just took them & it is dark outside) but you may be able to get the idea.

 

 

Rake wingnut.jpg

Pintle.jpg

Rudder rake line back half.jpg

Rudder rake line up front.jpg

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I’ve mentioned to a few folks about the challenges I face foiling in Savannah to include the tidal currents which can be very strong.  This past weekend I was working a section of the Wilmington River

Clean: not so sure the UFO is slower than. Waszp.  Dave has cuffed more than one or two around, but that could also be pilot differentiation. But to repeat and reiterate, we weren’t trying t

Actually not commenting on the above video but I don't want it to get buried by my Fulcrum update for the holidays, so i'm responding to it to keep it in frame. Martin is conveying what I'd love to co

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Paul, I really do not want to be a wet blanket here but you're putting a lot of faith into rope tension. Foil AOA driven by in-line cord tension, regardless of rope quality ends up with a lot of elasticity in it. We distinctly didn't drive AoA or depth with rope for this reason, having seen some scary results in C-class foil control systems. Carry on experimenting, but I'd like to voice that stretch will be a real limitation to control. 

DRC

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Note that I am still using the rake adjusting rod for setting the AOA (using the wingnut) but it is in tension only.  With it properly set up, the wingnut can not be rotated to adjust for less rake.  To make this adjustment I have to release line tension, adjust the wingnut and then re-apply tension. 

I have probably 8 outings since the first modification.  And yes, getting the right amount of tension in the rake adjusting rod has not been easy.

Version 1 did not have enough tension and would loose rake when trying to foil.

Version 2 worked (no movement under foiling loads), but was a "quick fix" only.  

Version 3 worked pretty good last fall but lost tension over the winter and was not adjustable. 

Call this version 4 (currently untested and Thunderstorms are forecast every day for the next week). 

Line stretch was definitely factored into this version.  It allows me to leave the "tension line" loose in between sails, and then quickly apply the needed tension at launch.  More can be applied as needed out on the water. 

With the blocks up front (inspired by the UFO outhaul) I can use "banjo action" to put a lot of tension in the line.  With it all set up, I can pull back on the foil down low pretty good with no motion.  Based on feel, I think this is enough.  However, if I needed I can go from 2 wraps around then pintle to three (50% increase in applied force for a given line tension).  I want to use just enough force to keep the pintle from moving while foiling.  Additional line stretch will occur under impact loads and provide something of a "shock absorber" effect on rudder groundings.  

 

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Hey all,

My UFO is being built/shipped this week and sent to Lake Tahoe! Looking forward to joining everyone.

A couple of quick questions - I was thinking about asking to upgrade to this dolly (https://dynamicdollies.com/shop/ufo/) - read that someone else had success with upgrading by just paying the difference in price (I'm rather tall and unconvinced that the beach cat dolly would be a good fit for longer distances that I anticipate having to wheel the boat). Has anyone explored using this dolly with a dolly trailer from Right On (ex https://rightontrailer.com/product/dolly-trailer/)? It seems like it should work as long as the dimensions work out. At the very least their multisport trailer would probably work (https://rightontrailer.com/product/multi-sport-trailer/) but it'd be attractive to keep the boat on the dolly - one less thing to assemble.

Also - are there any other accessories/spare parts that I should be asking for in the initial delivery from Fulcrum? I'm also curious how people store the hull if they don't have enough space to store it flat. Is it better to stand it up on the stern, or lay it on its side?

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On 6/13/2020 at 1:32 PM, aeiro said:

Hey all,

My UFO is being built/shipped this week and sent to Lake Tahoe! Looking forward to joining everyone.

A couple of quick questions - I was thinking about asking to upgrade to this dolly (https://dynamicdollies.com/shop/ufo/) - read that someone else had success with upgrading by just paying the difference in price (I'm rather tall and unconvinced that the beach cat dolly would be a good fit for longer distances that I anticipate having to wheel the boat). Has anyone explored using this dolly with a dolly trailer from Right On (ex https://rightontrailer.com/product/dolly-trailer/)? It seems like it should work as long as the dimensions work out. At the very least their multisport trailer would probably work (https://rightontrailer.com/product/multi-sport-trailer/) but it'd be attractive to keep the boat on the dolly - one less thing to assemble.

Also - are there any other accessories/spare parts that I should be asking for in the initial delivery from Fulcrum? I'm also curious how people store the hull if they don't have enough space to store it flat. Is it better to stand it up on the stern, or lay it on its side?

Aerio:

I have the dynamic dollies UFO dolly, and I had mine equipped with the large beach tires.  I keep my UFO on a very rocky 'beach', and learned from using Laser dollys on it that small tired dollys will not work (they get hung up too often).   The dynamic dolly works really well for me.  The two cross beams act as protection for the hulls (rocks will hit them before they hit a hull).  The handle provides a really solid pulling point for bringing the boat up a steep beach or ramp. 

The downside is that is is not inexpensive.  When I bought my UFO Fulcrum was still sourcing dollys from Dynamic, so they just charged me the difference in dolly prices (about $350, if I recall properly).  Fulcrum now builds their own, so I don't know if they will give you a credit for not taking the dolly with the boat.  The dolly is also much wider than the stock dolly, making it tougher to maneuver and store.   We call it 'megadolly.'  It is also pretty heavy, especially with the big wheels.  The Fulcrum dolly can be lifted with one hand and 'chucked' back on the beach.  

For transport, I built two cross beams for my roof rack, place the dolly on it, and it holds the UFO on my roof really securely (see photo).   I have not put it on the Trailer I use for our laser, but I believe it will fit on it as well.  This is a 4X8 aluminum utility trailer that I made some skids and chalks for so that the rear axle of the dolly has a spot to 'seat' in.  I made one improvement to the dolly, I added a short upright to the tongue of it with a cradle for the 'nose' of the UFO.  When the boat is pulled onto the trailer, the cradle goes over the flange, 'trapping' the boat on the dolly.  This prevents the UFO from sliding forward or backward, or tipping backward.   

20180520_195159_resized.jpg

UFO on CRV Roof (2).jpg

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Purchased a UFO in April of this year. Boat was delivered with a hole through the stbd hull and what appeared to be a noticeable patch in the same area on the port side. After some miscommunication with seller they agreed to repair, however it took almost a month before regaining possession again. This craft is presented as easy to set up launch and sail for the average sailor. I am 73 and have sailed a multitude of craft Including Windsurfers, kite board, Hobie trifoiler etc. As far set up goes it isn’t to bad, but not quite as simple as portrayed in videos. My problem with this boat is I feel it is misrepresented as Simple to launch and return to the beach vessel, and that is why I purchased the boat.I have attempted sailing it three times and still haven’t got it to foil.for one I cannot get front foil pin to go in so foil won’t lock down. (Have emailed fulcrum about situation several times but get no response) The biggest problem however is returning to shore as it is a bear trying to get rudder to come up. And while struggling with the rudder the front foil keeps releasing and grounding,so you have both foils to contend with. I have had to be pulled in by locals all three outings. So now I am afraid to sail this craft because I can’t get back to shore without assistance and I’m afraid of doing damage to it before I sell it. So if there is anyone interested in a new UFO let me know.

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7 hours ago, Randy Fortier said:

 I for one I cannot get front foil pin to go in so foil won’t lock down. (Have emailed fulcrum about situation several times but get no response) The biggest problem however is returning to shore as it is a bear trying to get rudder to come up. And while struggling with the rudder the front foil keeps releasing and grounding,so you have both foils to contend with. 

It sounds like you may have an older boat. If so, the good news is that Fulcrum made several small changes to make managing the foils easier, although it is still not perfect.   These are all inexpensive and easily retrofittable.  On the main foil, they switched from having two blocks with holes drilled in them on either side of the foil to a pair of gates over serrated plates.   The blocks with holes were notoriously difficult to align on the water.  With the gates, you open them, lower the foil into place with the pin in the detent you want (start with the middle position), and  close the gates.  Wrap a piece of velcro around them so they don't work loose when sailing.  It takes some practice, but I can lower and secure the foil in under a minute.  Raising it also takes practice, the shrouds will often impede the top of the foil, but it is straightforward. Make sure to swing the retainer clip in between the aluminum strut and the trailing edge of the foil.   One up, I have found that it stays put very well.

The rudder is not as easy to manage.   Fulcrum will send you a nylon thumbscrew that will apply tension to the rudder to keep it from moving.  But your problem sounds like you are having difficulty getting it to raise up.  When new, they are pretty stiff.  I sprayed some McLube on the inside of the rudder casing so that mine would slide more freely.  I also replaced the top bolt with an eye bolt and made a handle out of a short length of rope so I have something to grab.   But most times, if it is windy enough, after raising the main foil I can sail downwind with the downhaul off and the rudder will raise itself on my way in.  The challenge is preventing it from going up so much that you loose control.  I almost always jump in the water once is is less than 4' deep and put the rudder the rest of the way up, as my rudder is now loose enough that once I slow down, it will begin to drop again.   I am very envious of the cam-lock friction device that is shown on the Skeeta website, this seems to be a much better way to keep the foil retracted.

Landing on a shallow downwind shore when the wind is up (over 12 knots) is not easy.   Numerous techniques have been discussed on the forum, none are perfect.  

I recommend going out a few times when the wind is too light to foil, say 5-8 knots to get familiar with the boat and how everything works.  There are a lot of tricks to getting the foils up and down, to getting through a tack, etc.  Get comfortable sailing around with the rudder down and the main foil up.  Once you have those basics in hand, then go out in 10-12 and work on foiling.  Make sure your main foil is set to the middle hole, take off on a reach and try to keep the boat flat.  There are numerous posts on this on earlier pages of this thread.    The most effective way to foil is to take a clinic with Fulcrum.  This may not be possible for you logistically, but it is the fastest way to get up on foils.  

Don't give up yet, the summer is just starting.  Foiling is not easy.   It can be very frustrating, but then suddenly, it transitions to exhilarating.   The UFO is the easiest package I've found to learn on, but it still requires time and some concerted effort.   But that is the fun of it!  

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Randy,

I also recommend that you give it a few more tries before giving up.  

I am "only" 63, but I am getting much less nimble and mobile than I used to be and I am starting to have trouble with my hands/fingers and joints in general.  Several times I got all worn out and really struggled getting back into shore in good order.  Much of my struggles I attribute to not slowing down, catching my breath, thinking things through and doing each task correctly.    

If you are still using the pin block (I do), it can have alignment issues that makes it hard to insert or remove the pin.  The quick fix it to put the boat on its side at the house, insert the strut, and then install the foil, gantry & tie rod.  Line up the hole at the top of the strut with a desired hole in the pin block.  Run a 1/4" drill through it.  Confirm that the pin goes in and out ok.  Move to the next desired hole in the pin block and repeat.  

Fulcrum will send you and upgraded block (and other upgrade supplies) as needed.  Note that some of the upgrades (spreader bracket and mast upgrades) really are important to avoid bad breakage issues (I speak from experience).

To facilitate coming in to an easy working depth (say 3'), you really need to be able to get the main foil up and secured and the rudder set for a depth of 2' or so. 

First step is put the boat where it needs to be and put it in parking mode.  Note that it will drift slowly downwind.  Again, take a minute and rest if needed.

I have never had the main foil "unlatch" by itself.  I have been challenged to get it latched / unlatched when I wanted (did I say my hands/fingers have issues).  There is an alternate to the latch.  Tie a small line (1/8" to 1/4" and ~4' long) to the spreader bracket on the mast when you are setting up the boat. Just let it dangle when you are not using it.  To secure the main foil up, just stand up next to the mast, reach down and grab the gantry and pull the main foil/strut assembly up.  When you get the assembly all of the way up, loop the line from the spreader bracket under the gantry and tie it off.  I am thinking I am going to start using this method on a regular basis myself.  Let them younger guys fight that latch and us older (wiser?) guys can plan ahead for making this task easy.  Using this method to hold the main foil up at launch may also make it easier to drop the foil at the start of your outing.

I added the friction thumbscrew to my rudder foil, but the rudder is still a pain to deal with most of the time as I get ready to beach the boat.  My rudder is a pretty tight fit in the bracket and I have had very little luck getting it to come up when I want it to while sailing.  After getting the main foil secured, try laying down on the boat and reaching out to the rudder.  Make sure the friction screw is backed off and the rudder downhaul is pulled loose through the clamcleat.  Try to wiggle the rudder while pulling up on it.  Once I get it up at least 4", I can grab the rudder just above the rudder bracket, I push down on the bracket with the heel of my hand and use a prying action to work the rudder up an inch or so at a time.  Once it is about half way up, use both the friction screw and the downhaul line to secure it.  Too many times I have used just the friction screw and then the rudder went all of the way up at a really bad time on the way in.   

.  

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6 hours ago, P Flados said:

Randy,

I also recommend that you give it a few more tries before giving up.  

 

Randy

I just turned 70 and have been thinking all day about what I can share after seeing your post, and just returned to the forum to see that most of it has been covered by my peers already. I agree completely by all the advice given you. Remember when you learned to windsurf and kept being beaten to exhaustion? Then you discovered it is more brains than brawn. Same thing here. Also, before I received my UFO last Labor Day, I read every post in this forum from the beginning. If you do, you will see the pioneers that came before us, and are still here to help, and suggest and develop upgrades. They are obsessed.

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Randy:

I have one other suggestion.   I see you are in Michigan, so attending a clinic in Rhode Island isn't really feasible, especially in these travel restricted times.   But you can get much of the benefit of a clinic by learning with a partner.   If you have another sailor that wants to learn to foil, and access to a support motor boat, I think you will learn much faster by alternating with a partner in a motorboat.     It gives you time to rest, it provides and observer to comment on your technique from outside of the boat, and it gives you an opportunity to watch the mechanics of what someone else is doing.   As you swap on and off the boat, you have two minds comparing notes and experiences.   I learned to Moth sail this way, I'm convinced I learned much faster than I would have if I was simply trying it on my own.   

And, if the day is frustrating for both of you, at least you have someone to have a beer with on the beach.   

Doug

 

 

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Randy and others--

     Just some random, and hopefully helpful thoughts.  I am closer to 71 then 70,  and had major back surgery 3 months after I mailed David my deposit for #58.   Although I raced the first Wickford regatta,  one Key Largo regatta in 2019, and both Key Largo regattas this year,  my foiling time while racing probably totals 15 minutes, and 10 minutes of that was when the boat took over and foiled against my wishes.   My strategy while racing was 1. finish the race, 2. stay upright, 3. try to be on the starting line at the start and sail smart, 4. and have fun!   The UFO is easy and fun to sail even in displacement mode.  I also made up most of my distance when I would bear dead downwind for the runs while everyone else was trying to sail high angles so they might foil, and usually enjoyed a cooling swim while doing so.  Upwind much the same, the UFO points reasonably well, so while everyone else (other than David) was sailing a much lower course, I was sailing to the mark.  I have been able to do this with moderate success, and have a lot of fun.

     Now, getting away from and back to the beach is actually fairly simple, and no equipment mods (other then a rope pull handle off the rudder a la Martin L) needed.  I may not look graceful or cool, but this technique works.  First, heading out- walk the boat in knee to waist deep, drop the rudder 18 to 24 inches, tighten your little nylon snubbing bolt aim the boat where you want to go, pull in the main as you slither on and start sailing.  When you get deep enough, release the snubbing bolt, pull the rudder down with its downhaul,  cleat and then stow the downhaul around the aft peg and forward plastic clip on the tiller.  Then, keep sailing away from shore until you are in a "safe" spot, not in the channel, not near moored boats or whatever.  At this point I put the UFO into parking mode, head up and let the main out.  The UFO is very happy just sitting while you do other things, catch your breath, have a drink, or as here,  moving forward to drop the main foil.  At this point, I am probably 75 to 125 yards off shore, or more, depending on where my safe spot is., hell, it could be a quarter of a mile if needed, farther out is much better than being to close to shore or other obstructions.   I  then lay down on my stomach on the windward side of the mast, with my leeward arm reaching UNDER the main and grab the foil, pull the foil up 1/4" or so and release the little finger holding the main foil in the up position, no drilled holes needed.  Then holding blade with BOTH hands, I gently drop the whole unit down, line it up the pin up in the center slot (most of the time, depending on conditions) and lock the pin in with the gates.   Once everything is set with the  forward foil,  I reclaim my leeward arm and scoot back towards the stern until I can sit up.  Survey your situation, when you are all settled, grab the tiller, sheet in the main and go sailing.   When the boat starts humming, take a deep breath sheet in, or bear off and pop the boat up and go for a ride (and MAYBE a swim).

      Coming back to shore is much the same.  Find your safe spot, head up, let the main out and park the boat.  Again, do NOT do this close to shore, as above, distance from the shore is your friend, as you become more adept, you can get closer if you want to.   I basically do the reverse of going out.  On my stomach to windward side of the mast, leeward arm underneath the main, and then open both gates.  The main blade will start to bounce around once released.  I normally open the leeward gate first, then grab the blade with that hand to steady everything.  Then open the windward gate and just hand over hand pull the blade up.  Once I am able to get my leeward hand under the foil itself, I pull the unit all the way up and with the which ever hand is most convenient, I slide the little finger BETWEEN the foil top and blade bottom.  DO NOT put the little finger underneath the foil to hold the unit up, it will lead to very bad things.  One of David's many ongoing upgrades was to bevel the holdup fingers, making it much easier to get it in the right place.  On my original finger, I filed it down so it would fit much easier between the foil and blade.  With the main foil up, scoot back  and get your rudder downhaul unstored,  but STILL cleated and start sailing in.  Ideally, when you get close to shore, you uncleat the rudder downhaul,  wiggle the tiller a few times, and the rudder pops up (again I aim to sail in with about 24" of rudder still in the water).  However, I rarely find the wiggle up works for me, which is why I use the rope handle to give it a yank (which is often neither graceful or productive).  With luck the rudder lifts high enough so you can sail in to waist deep water, jump out, walk to the back of the UFO, reach down and grab the foil, lift it and secure with the little finger.   If the rudder hasn't popped by the time you are getting close to shore, then jump out (chest to neck deep as needed) and grab the rudder blade and lift into place.  When I do this, my only thought is to keep the rudder the most offshore part of the boat while futzing around getting the blade up, I do NOT want that foil to hit bottom if I can avoid it.  Then walk the UFO in, throw it on the wheels, get the boat up on land and enjoy a nice cold beverage of your choice.  Unrigging can usually come later!

     The UFO is a great boat, and for most of us, all we will need for a foiler.  You will remember your first sustained foil with a big smile regardless of how it ends.  It only took me 10 minutes in park mode to stop my adrenaline rush and heart palpitations!  The next run only took 5  minutes.  My philosophy so far has been get to a level that I can comfortably sail the boat where I want,  and be able to tack and jibe successfully most of the time.  I am comfortable enough now to know that when I want to tack I can, and only totally one or two tacks a day, and even then, get out of it and moving forward reasonably quickly.  I am slowly incorporating more foiling, but I am also NOT concerned if I foil less than everyone else (I do).  Push yourself as you build YOUR comfort level, the UFO is non-judgmental, and everyone so far has been willing to share info and technique.  If you are able to get to a clinic, DO IT!  I have done six  or seven and probably could NEVER attend enough of them.  Having David talking into you ear while wearing the "magic hat" pushing you  is a real treat, as well as an incredible learning experience.

   I realize this is a bit (?) drawn out, but knowing how move by move works will hopefully help.  Also, this is how I do it, this is not the Bible, and there are probably other ways to do the same thing.   The goal is to go UFO sailing,  adjust and refine as needed.  Barry #58  

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On 6/13/2020 at 11:32 AM, aeiro said:

Hey all,

My UFO is being built/shipped this week and sent to Lake Tahoe! Looking forward to joining everyone.

A couple of quick questions - I was thinking about asking to upgrade to this dolly (https://dynamicdollies.com/shop/ufo/) - read that someone else had success with upgrading by just paying the difference in price (I'm rather tall and unconvinced that the beach cat dolly would be a good fit for longer distances that I anticipate having to wheel the boat). Has anyone explored using this dolly with a dolly trailer from Right On (ex https://rightontrailer.com/product/dolly-trailer/)? It seems like it should work as long as the dimensions work out. At the very least their multisport trailer would probably work (https://rightontrailer.com/product/multi-sport-trailer/) but it'd be attractive to keep the boat on the dolly - one less thing to assemble.

Also - are there any other accessories/spare parts that I should be asking for in the initial delivery from Fulcrum? I'm also curious how people store the hull if they don't have enough space to store it flat. Is it better to stand it up on the stern, or lay it on its side?

The UFO I bought used was stored in a small yard in San Diego on a custom rack, up on its side.  Seems like a good idea.  I tried to get the rack too but logistics proved too hard to get it.

116_B.jpg

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On 6/17/2020 at 9:45 AM, koolkat505 said:

  

   I realize this is a bit (?) drawn out, but knowing how move by move works will hopefully help.  Also, this is how I do it, this is not the Bible, and there are probably other ways to do the same thing.   The goal is to go UFO sailing,  adjust and refine as needed.  Barry #58  

Barry:

Your step-by-step agrees completely with my experience, when I began last Fall.

I would add one caveat:  Sometimes, when the southwesterly here on Cape Cod comes up quickly and strong (20+) in the late afternoon, without the main foil deployed, the UFO wants to stuff the bows/pitch pole when returning to my lee shore. In this case, I (and heard others, too) need to hang off the stern to keep the nose up. The alternative is main foil down, come in hot, splash the boat before the shallows and walk her in on her side, holding the masthead.

While I am here, David Clark promoted (and Martin was quite enthusiastic) a new way to rig the sail and adjust foils, starting with raising sail to 4 inches from the masthead, etc., etc. Is this still good? If so, as I am close to my inaugural outing for the season, it would be helpful to get an update/refresher on the latest rigging instructions. Thanks. 

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52 minutes ago, Andyufo said:

Barry:

Your step-by-step agrees completely with my experience, when I began last Fall.

I would add one caveat:  Sometimes, when the southwesterly here on Cape Cod comes up quickly and strong (20+) in the late afternoon, without the main foil deployed, the UFO wants to stuff the bows/pitch pole when returning to my lee shore. In this case, I (and heard others, too) need to hang off the stern to keep the nose up. The alternative is main foil down, come in hot, splash the boat before the shallows and walk her in on her side, holding the masthead.

While I am here, David Clark promoted (and Martin was quite enthusiastic) a new way to rig the sail and adjust foils, starting with raising sail to 4 inches from the masthead, etc., etc. Is this still good? If so, as I am close to my inaugural outing for the season, it would be helpful to get an update/refresher on the latest rigging instructions. Thanks. 

I'm still +1 on both recommendations.

Coming in downwind with strong wind, raise main foil and body surf with your tummy/chest over the back of the boat. 

In nice foiling wind - 10kt to 15kt - hoist a couple inches lower than the top. This gives the sail a better profile with less twist and more even camber. Below 10, you want the original max camber setup. Above 15-17 you want to go to top so you have more cunningham trim distance to flatten.

Mind you, this is mainly for max performance conditions, races etc. In 10-15 it should also make it easier to foil downwind. Getting started I'd not worry about this at all.

 

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I had a nice outing today.  I still suck at getting / keeping the boat foiling, but I am getting a little air time and only splashed once. 

I was using version 4.1 of my modified rudder.  I upgraded the strongback that pulls back on the pintle (it is now 3/8" SS tube inside 1/2" SS tube).  I fabbed a small bracket that secures it at the bottom.  I got rid of the 3/16" low stretch line and went with 8 wraps around the pintle using braided nylon string.  

On one run today, I strayed 20' too far to the southeast side of the channel and hit a sandbar hard at 6.8 knots.  It snapped the string and brought the boat to an abrupt stop.  I made my way over to the shore, tide a knot at the break, did 7 wraps, applied tension and continued sailing.  I am mulling over needed changes to avoid sting breakage. 

The first photo show the wraps spead out, the second shows the bracket at the bottom, the third shows it ready to use.

After posting these photos, I noted that you can see the somewhat sloppy application of carbon fiber tow that I wrapped around the rudderhead plates.  I put a couple of wraps around the upper plate and a bunch around the lower.  For me this was a quick and easy alternative to the upgrade recommendation at UFO Upgrades For Reliability and Ease of Use.

 

V4.1 spread out.jpg

V4.1 stongback bottom.jpg

V4.1 at rudder.jpg

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19 hours ago, Gilles29 said:

The small sail (6 or 6,5 sqm) could it be an alternative in strong winds? 

 

Yes. They have a smaller "pinhead" sail, which I acquired from Fulcrum end of last season (not yet tried) for higher winds or if I am in the mood for more leisurely sailing. They tell me it will foil at 10 knots wind, but won't win any races.

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On 6/16/2020 at 8:37 AM, Champlain Sailor said:

It sounds like you may have an older boat. If so, the good news is that Fulcrum made several small changes to make managing the foils easier, although it is still not perfect.   These are all inexpensive and easily retrofittable.  On the main foil, they switched from having two blocks with holes drilled in them on either side of the foil to a pair of gates over serrated plates.   The blocks with holes were notoriously difficult to align on the water.  With the gates, you open them, lower the foil into place with the pin in the detent you want (start with the middle position), and  close the gates.  Wrap a piece of velcro around them so they don't work loose when sailing.  It takes some practice, but I can lower and secure the foil in under a minute.  Raising it also takes practice, the shrouds will often impede the top of the foil, but it is straightforward. Make sure to swing the retainer clip in between the aluminum strut and the trailing edge of the foil.   One up, I have found that it stays put very well.

The rudder is not as easy to manage.   Fulcrum will send you a nylon thumbscrew that will apply tension to the rudder to keep it from moving.  But your problem sounds like you are having difficulty getting it to raise up.  When new, they are pretty stiff.  I sprayed some McLube on the inside of the rudder casing so that mine would slide more freely.  I also replaced the top bolt with an eye bolt and made a handle out of a short length of rope so I have something to grab.   But most times, if it is windy enough, after raising the main foil I can sail downwind with the downhaul off and the rudder will raise itself on my way in.  The challenge is preventing it from going up so much that you loose control.  I almost always jump in the water once is is less than 4' deep and put the rudder the rest of the way up, as my rudder is now loose enough that once I slow down, it will begin to drop again.   I am very envious of the cam-lock friction device that is shown on the Skeeta website, this seems to be a much better way to keep the foil retracted.

Landing on a shallow downwind shore when the wind is up (over 12 knots) is not easy.   Numerous techniques have been discussed on the forum, none are perfect.  

I recommend going out a few times when the wind is too light to foil, say 5-8 knots to get familiar with the boat and how everything works.  There are a lot of tricks to getting the foils up and down, to getting through a tack, etc.  Get comfortable sailing around with the rudder down and the main foil up.  Once you have those basics in hand, then go out in 10-12 and work on foiling.  Make sure your main foil is set to the middle hole, take off on a reach and try to keep the boat flat.  There are numerous posts on this on earlier pages of this thread.    The most effective way to foil is to take a clinic with Fulcrum.  This may not be possible for you logistically, but it is the fastest way to get up on foils.  

Don't give up yet, the summer is just starting.  Foiling is not easy.   It can be very frustrating, but then suddenly, it transitions to exhilarating.   The UFO is the easiest package I've found to learn on, but it still requires time and some concerted effort.   But that is the fun of it!  

What is classified as an older boat? I just purchased this boat at the end of April early May of this year.But it still has the block system for the foil pin

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2 hours ago, Randy Fortier said:

What is classified as an older boat? I just purchased this boat at the end of April early May of this year.But it still has the block system for the foil pin

Hi Randy,

If you bought the boat from Fulcrum this year, it'll definitely have the new system, which swings open and close. You put the pin through the foil first, lower the foil to the grooves (with the top "gates" open). Once down and in the right groove, you then close the gates, and tie them securely (I'm not sure what best technique is on this point, as I use the old system).

Unless you're doing this in an extremely choppy spot, it should be easy. It's definitely easier than the old system!

In any case, for a beginner, it's a real boon to get your early launches / learning in a safe spot, ideally with a dock. This is true for any boat with new/different systems -- foilers are definitely a few notches more complex than non-foilers. While the UFO is markedly easier than other foilers... it's still a foiler...

We have been collecting tips and tricks about the boat in the Unofficial UFO Owner's Guide --> https://bit.ly/2KaU5Yp - these might help with sorting things out and making life easier.

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12 hours ago, martin 'hoff said:

You put the pin through the foil first, lower the foil to the grooves (with the top "gates" open). Once down and in the right groove, you then close the gates, and tie them securely (I'm not sure what best technique is on this point, as I use the old system).

I totally agree with you Martin, but I see one point to notice; my feedback show me that I must only put the pin into the hole when the daggerboad is down, and only stays 4 or 5 inches to pull, because if you put the pin when i's entirely raised you'll have a problem with the shrouds, and it may get stuck in !

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18 hours ago, Andyufo said:

Yes. They have a smaller "pinhead" sail, which I acquired from Fulcrum end of last season (not yet tried) for higher winds or if I am in the mood for more leisurely sailing. They tell me it will foil at 10 knots wind, but won't win any races.

Andy, I've another dinghy with a main of 11,5 sqm and also a small sail of 9,2 for strong winds.  It seems that I'm faster with the small one above 15 knots of wind. Probably due to my weight (66kg)...

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7 hours ago, Gilles29 said:

I totally agree with you Martin, but I see one point to notice; my feedback show me that I must only put the pin into the hole when the daggerboad is down, and only stays 4 or 5 inches to pull, because if you put the pin when i's entirely raised you'll have a problem with the shrouds, and it may get stuck in !

That's a good point. Hadn't thought of that. 

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Went out again yesterday.  I spent 4 hours on the water to get 20 minutes of decent wind.  I estimate 1.5 hours tacking 3 miles down the channel, 20 minutes good wind at my chosen sailing location, 15 minutes too little wind,  20 minutes trying to foil with too much wind (and spending as much time in the water as sailing), the rest getting back to the ramp.

However, I did manage to get my new action camera to catch my lousy attempts at foiling.

https://youtu.be/4RPeS22fW8o

After the wind got too strong and the waves too big for me to foil, I started my 3 mile journey back to the ramp with the wind about 10° off of straight down the 200 yard wide channel.  I was running with the main sheet full out to the stopper knot (boom not quite 90° to boat centerline), but was still having a hard time controlling the boat when a gust would hit.  My first 3 runs ended in a swim.  Getting the boat back upright in strong winds and nasty chop was no fun.  My first crash was from unintended foiling.  I adjusted the wand down to where it would just be active.  The next run I got going too fast again and crashed with the boat rolling over on top of me.  My next crash was a pitchpole.  The next run, I stayed slow and made it across the channel without a crash.  However, I realized that if I was going to sail slow enough to stay in control, it was going to be a pain to get back (I was not sailing nearly as deep as desired).

Then I put the boat in park mode, went to the back, un-tied the mainsheet from the boom (hard to do in a strong & gusty wind without have the boat blow nose over stern), and then tied a quick figure eight in the end of the line to give me a longer effective mainsheet.  This time out I was testing having the cuningham going down to the mast collar for easier mast rotation, so my mast was now free to rotate all I wanted.  Also, the main foil was full down so it did not get in the way.  I eased the sail out with the end of the boom about 3' forward of the mast, pointed the boat down the channel and took off nice and easy.  I played the mainsheet for a nice stable controlled ride the rest of the way back in. 

Today I went through my stash of old boating stuff.  I found a longer mainsheet that I am going to start using to make these kind of return trips a little easier.  I also installed the improved Righting Line Kit that Fulcrum sent mt a while back but I had never installed. 

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14 hours ago, P Flados said:

Went out again yesterday.  I spent 4 hours on the water to get 20 minutes of decent wind.  I estimate 1.5 hours tacking 3 miles down the channel, 20 minutes good wind at my chosen sailing location, 15 minutes too little wind,  20 minutes trying to foil with too much wind (and spending as much time in the water as sailing), the rest getting back to the ramp.

However, I did manage to get my new action camera to catch my lousy attempts at foiling.

https://youtu.be/4RPeS22fW8o

After the wind got too strong and the waves too big for me to foil, I started my 3 mile journey back to the ramp with the wind about 10° off of straight down the 200 yard wide channel.  I was running with the main sheet full out to the stopper knot (boom not quite 90° to boat centerline), but was still having a hard time controlling the boat when a gust would hit.  My first 3 runs ended in a swim.  Getting the boat back upright in strong winds and nasty chop was no fun.  My first crash was from unintended foiling.  I adjusted the wand down to where it would just be active.  The next run I got going too fast again and crashed with the boat rolling over on top of me.  My next crash was a pitchpole.  The next run, I stayed slow and made it across the channel without a crash.  However, I realized that if I was going to sail slow enough to stay in control, it was going to be a pain to get back (I was not sailing nearly as deep as desired).

Then I put the boat in park mode, went to the back, un-tied the mainsheet from the boom (hard to do in a strong & gusty wind without have the boat blow nose over stern), and then tied a quick figure eight in the end of the line to give me a longer effective mainsheet.  This time out I was testing having the cuningham going down to the mast collar for easier mast rotation, so my mast was now free to rotate all I wanted.  Also, the main foil was full down so it did not get in the way.  I eased the sail out with the end of the boom about 3' forward of the mast, pointed the boat down the channel and took off nice and easy.  I played the mainsheet for a nice stable controlled ride the rest of the way back in. 

Today I went through my stash of old boating stuff.  I found a longer mainsheet that I am going to start using to make these kind of return trips a little easier.  I also installed the improved Righting Line Kit that Fulcrum sent mt a while back but I had never installed. 

A lot of work, but it sounds like you had a good slice of fun. Love the timestamp on those clips -- 2016 :-)

I'll just say -- careful with a too-long mainsheet. It can, and will, bust the sail track open. The general rule is -- I believe -- that the fillet of the main at the bottom should max out where it lines up with the forward crossbeams (which are ... ~20 degrees short of 90 degrees). 

If it's really light winds, it won't cause trouble. If it's windy, uyou should be able to drive the apparent wind forward, so you can sail it with the sail in this angle.

Now, it's incredibly frustrating to have a return downwind where you're capsizing because it's too windy. I've been there. The strategy I've found is to drag your legs in the water over the transom to slow the boat down, maintain control and prevent a pitchpole...

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I do not see a problem with the sail track. 

The mast rotates with the sail.

With the cunningham connected at the bottom of the mast (not the boat) and with the main foil down, I can disconnect my mast hold down line and spin the mast / sail 360° without any binding.  Because the booms are connected to the spreaders, they rotate the mast and the sail track is continuously held in alignment with the boom.  

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16 minutes ago, martin 'hoff said:

However, I did manage to get my new action camera to catch my lousy attempts at foiling.

https://youtu.be/4RPeS22fW8o

Not lousy at all. Pretty good stuff and close to getting foiling in a more stable manner.

Quick commentary on what I see

  • You need more rudder rake - some flights the boat goes nose up, but the stern lags quite a bit behind. With more rudder rake, you'll then be able to sit on the middle patch (further back from where you are in the video). 
  • You might be sailing a bit "too deep" for takeoff -- I say this because the main is too eased. Ideal takeoff is: reach / slightly broad reach to establish speed, then slight temporary bearaway and ease for the takeoff moment, followed by a gentle return to reach. You draw a gentle, open "S" on the water.
  • While you are gathering speed and taking off, must be fully hiked out. Cannot avoid that. This is the most important item 
  • You have good "overhand sheeting", but in one part of the video you switch to a strange sheeting/steering technique that is slow; use the good standard overhand sheeting always...
  • Steering and sheeting are good, you have the right instincts. You'll want to steer a little bit less (ie: smaller motions), and sheet more actively (more frequent ease-trim-ease-trim-ease-trim, less rope each time). 

Hope that's interesting/useful...

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Thanks for the fedback.

The first couple of take offs were with too much main foil rake.  I adjusted it and things improved.  I will probably dial in a little more rudder rake next outing.

My headings were mostly a function of staying on a path that gave me decent length runs without running aground in some shallow areas I was avoiding.  Fortunately the shallows were gradual and super soft mud and not the usual abrupt sand bars that have caused me so much grief.  I was trying to zig - zag a little to get speed then lift off, but my timing just did not seem to do a lot of good.  It seemed it was just more about hooking up to a puff that would get me to foiling speed. 

My overhand sheeting is getting better, but I still fumble.  Fumbling will probably continue as I work on trading bad old habits for good new ones.  Also, I am also having hand / finger / grip issues that are very frustrating (probably just a getting old thing).

My steering / sheeting "instincts" are actually terrible.  I am having to really focus on minimal steering and trying to control roll with sheeting.  More than half of my crashes from foiling were either sheeting out at the wrong time, or not sheeting in early enough.  Again, bad old habits and/or big need for good new habits. 

And back to the mast rotation thing, I am aware that the big risk of a longer mainsheet comes when sailing with the main foil up.  At normal max rotation, one of the shrouds is tight up against the back of the gantry.  Any more rotation and loads will increase a lot.  I need to remember to add a second stopper knot to limit mast rotation to the normal range if I am going to be sailing any distance with the main foil up (especially in more than light winds).   

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1 hour ago, P Flados said:

Thanks for the fedback.

The first couple of take offs were with too much main foil rake.  I adjusted it and things improved.  I will probably dial in a little more rudder rake next outing.

My headings were mostly a function of staying on a path that gave me decent length runs without running aground in some shallow areas I was avoiding.  Fortunately the shallows were gradual and super soft mud and not the usual abrupt sand bars that have caused me so much grief.  I was trying to zig - zag a little to get speed then lift off, but my timing just did not seem to do a lot of good.  It seemed it was just more about hooking up to a puff that would get me to foiling speed. 

My overhand sheeting is getting better, but I still fumble.  Fumbling will probably continue as I work on trading bad old habits for good new ones.  Also, I am also having hand / finger / grip issues that are very frustrating (probably just a getting old thing).

My steering / sheeting "instincts" are actually terrible.  I am having to really focus on minimal steering and trying to control roll with sheeting.  More than half of my crashes from foiling were either sheeting out at the wrong time, or not sheeting in early enough.  Again, bad old habits and/or big need for good new habits. 

And back to the mast rotation thing, I am aware that the big risk of a longer mainsheet comes when sailing with the main foil up.  At normal max rotation, one of the shrouds is tight up against the back of the gantry.  Any more rotation and loads will increase a lot.  I need to remember to add a second stopper knot to limit mast rotation to the normal range if I am going to be sailing any distance with the main foil up (especially in more than light winds).   

Agreed, it's extra tricky when there's obstructions and limitations.

I want to be clear -- for other readers - there are two problems with too much rotation (from longer-than-spec mainsheet):

  • The cunningham will break the mainsail track -- this has happened to me
    • You are using a non-standard cunningham setup.
  • With mainfoil up, it might get tangled with shrouds, but this is typically easy to disentangle
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Between the Covid stay at home mess (things seem to be getting worse here and we have health issues at my house that make me not want to take chances) and the lack of wind, I got bored.  I decided to document my UFO mods and repairs.  And since Martin is sharing his efforts, I though what the heck:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LcToxGGarAwXOiiUnwgSgDZmyr8cHqfV/view?usp=sharing

And since I am probably not the only one bored, how about some help.  Surely someone is getting their UFO wet.  Where are the rest of the vids and stories.

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I have yet to get out on #116 yet but I have a question or two. Tonight I went to pull the main foil off of the vertical so that I could do the recommended upgrade of filling the bottom of the main foil. I can not get the main foil off. The push rod slid right out and there is nothing holding the foil in to my knowledge, but it's stuck.  I took a rubber mallet to it and tried to knock it out, nothing. I sprayed some penetrating oil down the shaft, nothing.  

Any tips?

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3 hours ago, WCB said:

I have yet to get out on #116 yet but I have a question or two. Tonight I went to pull the main foil off of the vertical so that I could do the recommended upgrade of filling the bottom of the main foil. I can not get the main foil off. The push rod slid right out and there is nothing holding the foil in to my knowledge, but it's stuck.  I took a rubber mallet to it and tried to knock it out, nothing. I sprayed some penetrating oil down the shaft, nothing.  

Any tips?

To avoid that, I think it's necessary to dismount often the foils, and to lubricate them with tallow. It's what I do, and I've never had such problems

In your case, as it's blocked, you want to lubricate with a lot of WD40 (for example) and wait several hours before trying again with rubber mallet....

 

 

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7 hours ago, WCB said:

I have yet to get out on #116 yet but I have a question or two. Tonight I went to pull the main foil off of the vertical so that I could do the recommended upgrade of filling the bottom of the main foil. I can not get the main foil off. The push rod slid right out and there is nothing holding the foil in to my knowledge, but it's stuck.  I took a rubber mallet to it and tried to knock it out, nothing. I sprayed some penetrating oil down the shaft, nothing.  

Any tips?

I've had that... You're doing the right thing. 

A wooden park bench can work better than the mallet. Find 2 planks that end even, fit the foil vertical in between them, slide the foil to hammer the horizontal (not too hard!) against the plank ends.

Once it's out... Next time you reassemble you can lubricate - ie tefgel or similar - so disassembly is easier.

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8 hours ago, martin 'hoff said:

I've had that... You're doing the right thing. 

A wooden park bench can work better than the mallet. Find 2 planks that end even, fit the foil vertical in between them, slide the foil to hammer the horizontal (not too hard!) against the plank ends.

Once it's out... Next time you reassemble you can lubricate - ie tefgel or similar - so disassembly is easier.

Thanks @martin 'hoff and @Gilles29  I'll go back to work to free it up.  It was a salt water boat and now a fresh so I want to get it cleaned out.

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On 7/2/2020 at 1:17 PM, WCB said:

Thanks @martin 'hoff and @Gilles29  I'll go back to work to free it up.  It was a salt water boat and now a fresh so I want to get it cleaned out.

Still trying to get the horizontal off.  I had to make my own plank ends.  I've been able to get it about 1/2" out but then it stops. I put tuff gel on the exposed part and then knocked it back in with a rubber mallet.  Once in, I sprayed penetrating oil in again from the top and let it sit overnight.  I'll go give it a try again soon to see if it is more free.  What a hassle.  I chipped the leading edge of the mail foil with all of the knocking on it, which ironically I had repaired just last week.

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8 minutes ago, WCB said:

Still trying to get the horizontal off.  I had to make my own plank ends.  I've been able to get it about 1/2" out but then it stops. I put tuff gel on the exposed part and then knocked it back in with a rubber mallet.  Once in, I sprayed penetrating oil in again from the top and let it sit overnight.  I'll go give it a try again soon to see if it is more free.  What a hassle.  I chipped the leading edge of the mail foil with all of the knocking on it, which ironically I had repaired just last week.

Wow that sounds like it's really stuck. Would heating up the vertical a bit help? (ie: heat gun...)

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Now that you got some movement, you are heading in the right direction.

A build up of aluminum oxide is the problem.  The build up can be pretty tough.  Movement and the right chemicals can eventually break down this build up.  You choice of lubricant can make a difference.  For getting corroded bimetallic joints loose, Kroil usually comes to the top of the list if you ask around.

Keep it soaking in a penetrating lubricant and do not get in a hurry. 

I would worry about heating.  Any heating greater than say 150°F could be transmitted from the strut to the SS  tab and then to the foil materials.  Any time I successfully used heat to free a metallic joint, it took an awful lot more than 150 °F.  

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Well I had a great outing yesterday and finally got several minutes of worth viewing video extracted from 2 hours of raw footage. 

Newbie out in the ocean

All of the footage was me giving the ocean a try.  Wind was forecast to build as the day went on and stronger offshore than inshore.  When I got to my selected sailing spot, the wind was lacking.  So I gave offshore a try.  Most of the "fun sailing" was more skimming than foiling.  Anything higher than a beam reach was pretty slow as the period was just wrong for getting any speed.  

After coming back inshore I got in a few runs with some of my "best yet" foiling stretches.  Of course the camera battery was dead by then.

Other good points for the day included:

  • No injuries, scrapes or dings
  • I did not break anything
  • I "recovered acceptably" at the end of every brief foiling stretch and as such had a zero capsize day 
  • My re-paint job on the edge of the boat join seem to work and both hulls were dry after the outing
  • PF rudder rake modification version 4.3 worked great for the second straight outing.
  • I found that my boat seemed to like more rudder rake than I had previously tried.  I adjusted more and more rake as the day went on and ended up at 0.55" back from full forward without noticing any problem.  I was also happy with my "rake setting scale" mod that has a scribe mark on the rod and  0.1" marks going backward from full forward.  

 

IMG_20200704_103356134_HDR.jpg

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9 hours ago, P Flados said:

Now that you got some movement, you are heading in the right direction.

A build up of aluminum oxide is the problem.  The build up can be pretty tough.  Movement and the right chemicals can eventually break down this build up.  You choice of lubricant can make a difference.  For getting corroded bimetallic joints loose, Kroil usually comes to the top of the list if you ask around.

Keep it soaking in a penetrating lubricant and do not get in a hurry. 

I would worry about heating.  Any heating greater than say 150°F could be transmitted from the strut to the SS  tab and then to the foil materials.  Any time I successfully used heat to free a metallic joint, it took an awful lot more than 150 °F.  

No heat but I finally got it free and apart.  I've got a little clean up to do but nothing major.  What a hassle.  I've filled the bottom of the main vertical and now I'll polish up the tab and apply tuff gel before re-assembling it.  

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6 hours ago, citygent said:

Well done WCB, what a struggle! Could you (or anyone else who knows) point me towards this filling of the bottom of the main foil upgrade which I must have missed? Thanks

Filling in the bottom of the foil helps eliminate ventilation caused by air getting sucked down the hollow cavities in the foil.   I don't know that it is a big problem, but I filled mine and it seems to have helped a big.  It could also be that I've just gotten more experience sailing the boat.   I used the expanding foam ('good stuff') that you get a Lowes to seal cracks in your house.  Spray it in, let it expand and harden, then cut it flush with the end of the foil with a knife.   The forward cavity is easy, it is just open.  The middle cavity has the foil stub in it that seals it pretty well, so I left that alone.   The rear cavity has the flap pushrod in it.  I coated the pushrod with grease and filled it with the foam.  It still bound up, but I was able to twist it loose, remove the pushrod, and then clean the foam off of it.  So the seal there isn't perfect, but the volume is much reduced.   

I wouldn't lose a day of sailing to make this mod, but over the winter if the boat is apart and you are looking for something to do, its an incremental improvement.

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I sealed the strut because it's on the list and I'm knocking out the whole list right away so that the boat doesn't have breakage issues.  It took me and my 7yo boy two minutes to fill the cavities.  Since I had the foil apart anyways it was worth the effort.  Especially since the main foil was not fully inserted when I received the boat so I had to do something there anyways.

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Production update: Builds for early August delivery are available in the Queue. Our little burger stand is flipping patties at championship speeds right now. We are on a ROLL. Get on it now while spots for summer delivery still last.

DRC

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Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum and very interested in the UFO. Looks like it is a blast to sail.

Is there anybody in the Tampa Bay area sailing/flying a UFO, I would love to see one up close.

Cheers,

JP

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1 hour ago, JP C said:

Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum and very interested in the UFO. Looks like it is a blast to sail.

Is there anybody in the Tampa Bay area sailing/flying a UFO, I would love to see one up close.

Hi JP C - glad to have you here. Noone in Tampa Bay I personally know, but I know someone in Orlando, and I'm in Miami.

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OK, I think we got our money's worth out of this hiking strap...    I noticed it was tearing in May when I put the boat in the water.  Didn't get around to replacing it until last night.  Having a seriously compromised hiking strap built my abilities to foil and sail the boat without hiking  hard.   But every once in a while I'd forget and catch myself fully extended, then realize with horror that I was a few strands away from a quick dunk.   So finally, last night I took the 30 minutes to replace it.  Once out of the boat, My son and I were surprised that neither of us could not tear it apart with our bare hands.   We clamped the end to a rafter in the basement and my 130lb son hung from it.   Wow, still some serious strength.   I tried the same thing and it slowly ripped apart, so less than 180 lbs of strength left.   

The lesson...check your hiking straps.   Replace them if tearing, but they are still much stronger than they look.  Also, learning to manage the boats heal without using the straps is a valuable skill!

UFO_Strap.jpg

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On 7/8/2020 at 6:33 PM, WCB said:

I sealed the strut because it's on the list and I'm knocking out the whole list right away so that the boat doesn't have breakage issues.  It took me and my 7yo boy two minutes to fill the cavities.  Since I had the foil apart anyways it was worth the effort.  Especially since the main foil was not fully inserted when I received the boat so I had to do something there anyways.

Would it also be an idea to fill the cavity/ies in the rear foil (after removing the black rubber stopper at the bottom near the foil vertical)? The reason I ask is that I noticed a lot of water collecting in the rear foil (it seems to enter via the black rubber stopper) and it takes ages to empty (even when blowing in the ventilation hole at the top to apply pressure)? What are you guys doing to prevent water filling up the rear foil? Thanks.

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I finally received my boat after a ton of issues with shipping (story for another time) and I have a few questions (and I'm sure I'll have a few more once I try to rig it). This is the first time I bought a boat that wasn't rigged up already.

1. I got two bags filled with lines and misc hardware. I'm having trouble watching the videos for rigging, but I'm pretty sure I know what most of them are (black/white one is the main halyard, red is main sheet, black elastic is for the foil wand. I'm pretty sure one of the light grey lines is the outhaul, but I don't know what the other light grey line is for, the dark grey line, the (very thin) yellow lines or the two plastic clips. I've attached photos of the two bags for reference. Can anyone help with that?

The dolly doesn't seem to have any lines already attached to it, or any attachment points for new lines. I guess I could just loop one of the lines around the dolly but I feel like I'm missing something. There's not two lines of equal size in my bag anyway, so I'd need to either cut one (and hope it wasn't needed for something else) or buy some lines from the hardware store. I searched through this thread and didn't find anyone else asking about this so I feel like I'm missing something very obvious. I can't find the black lines attached to the dolly that everyone seems to be mentioning.

IMG_20200710_202804.jpg

IMG_20200710_202743.jpg

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I'm also having a really hard time figuring out where the shrouds are. None of the lines in either of those two bags seem substantial enough to be shrouds (I thought they were metal anyway) and there's nothing that looks like a shroud in the rest of the stuff I received in the shipping box.

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17 minutes ago, aeiro said:

I'm also having a really hard time figuring out where the shrouds are. None of the lines in either of those two bags seem substantial enough to be shrouds (I thought they were metal anyway) and there's nothing that looks like a shroud in the rest of the stuff I received in the shipping box.

The shrouds are lines as well. It looks like they're the large coil of gray line in the upper picture.  The smaller coil of gray line being the outhaul.  The short piece of dark spectra/dyneema/vectra is the loop for the hounds and the shackle goes with that.

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The lines for your dolly are probably in the bag as well as those two white clips should be the clips that hold down the boat to the dolly.

I can't believe that both ends of your mainsheet are already frayed.  

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Thanks for the info about the shrouds. The lines for the dolly were the same color and material as the main halyard so I didn't notice them at first. I'll try rigging it up tomorrow with the info you just gave me.

Do you know what the narrow diameter yellow lines are for? There's one in each bag and they're different lengths.

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9 hours ago, aeiro said:

Thanks for the info about the shrouds. The lines for the dolly were the same color and material as the main halyard so I didn't notice them at first. I'll try rigging it up tomorrow with the info you just gave me.

Do you know what the narrow diameter yellow lines are for? There's one in each bag and they're different lengths.

You're getting good info there. The main shrouds you can put a cow hitch around the shackle that goes at the top, and that way you avoid cutting that line in 2. Just make sure it's super tight and won't slip. 

Dyneema lines are slippery, and slip in normal sailing knots -- so the ends of the shrouds (at one of the low friction rings near the base of the mast) should be tied with a clove hitch backed by a figure eight or similar.

Thin yellow lines:

  • the shorter one will be the downhaul tweaker
  • longer one will be the outhaul 

 

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50 minutes ago, Gilles29 said:

main sail is damaged near the bottom batten; how can I repair that, any ideas?

Not an authority on this, so IMHO... I would not worry. When I took a sail with similar damage to my local sail loft, the owner said "meh, come back when the gash is at least 6 inches long".

If you want to do something (as I wanted to, with my sail), you can remove the batten caps, trim any loose strands, put dacron sail patch (or tape). The adhesive on dacron sail patches and tape is really good, but you have to do good surface prep because the sail will have salt or oil (from lubricating the sail track), and glue it really well (make sure it makes contact all around the embedded rope and cover). In particular, it should adhere well around the edges, so the edges don't "flip" inside out during a hoist or drop.

I don't think the UFO sail tracks are sharp, but I haven't checked. If you think they are (ie: if this sail is relatively new), you could run a bit of sandpaper through the track to dull any sharp edges. Sanding the inside and borders of the track I've done on other boats, and on the UFO  around the joint on repaired tracks (to avoid the sail snagging). 

 

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3 hours ago, martin 'hoff said:

You're getting good info there. The main shrouds you can put a cow hitch around the shackle that goes at the top, and that way you avoid cutting that line in 2. Just make sure it's super tight and won't slip. 

Dyneema lines are slippery, and slip in normal sailing knots -- so the ends of the shrouds (at one of the low friction rings near the base of the mast) should be tied with a clove hitch backed by a figure eight or similar.

Thin yellow lines:

  • the shorter one will be the downhaul tweaker
  • longer one will be the outhaul 

 

Thanks. My lines were already cut in two so I ended up using an estar hitch to attach it to the shackle at the top. Do you know if there's a good photo/video for how to attach shrouds to the base of the mast and how the tensioning system works? I can only catch glimpses in the video and it looks like it's all rigged up already so it's not super helpful.

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Also I seem to be missing the nut/washer that holds the rudder together (I triple checked all the packing material and it's nowhere to be seen). I'm going to get in touch with Fulcrum on Monday to get them to send me one but is this something that I can find at the local hardware store in the interim? It doesn't seem to be in any of the spare parts lists.

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20 hours ago, aeiro said:

I finally received my boat after a ton of issues with shipping (story for another time) and I have a few questions (and I'm sure I'll have a few more once I try to rig it). This is the first time I bought a boat that wasn't rigged up already.

1. I got two bags filled with lines and misc hardware. I'm having trouble watching the videos for rigging, but I'm pretty sure I know what most of them are (black/white one is the main halyard, red is main sheet, black elastic is for the foil wand. I'm pretty sure one of the light grey lines is the outhaul, but I don't know what the other light grey line is for, the dark grey line, the (very thin) yellow lines or the two plastic clips. I've attached photos of the two bags for reference. Can anyone help with that?

The dolly doesn't seem to have any lines already attached to it, or any attachment points for new lines. I guess I could just loop one of the lines around the dolly but I feel like I'm missing something. There's not two lines of equal size in my bag anyway, so I'd need to either cut one (and hope it wasn't needed for something else) or buy some lines from the hardware store. I searched through this thread and didn't find anyone else asking about this so I feel like I'm missing something very obvious. I can't find the black lines attached to the dolly that everyone seems to be mentioning.

IMG_20200710_202804.jpg

IMG_20200710_202743.jpg

I’m assuming you’ve already sent a few messages to Fulcrum about this, and likely received a response clarifying everything. I went through a similar experience getting my boat rigged up. 
 

If you’re still looking for answers, here’s what I can provide:

1.) There is a link to an unlisted YouTube video from Fulcrum in an email from Dave or Kirk that you should have received. It’s the first link on the page, and can be overlooked as a header. This video goes through how to build the rig. Once you watch it, you’ll have the rig built in 30 minutes. 

2.) I too was missing parts, some of the same parts as you. In order to get on the water faster, I just took the threaded rods to the hardware store and found some wingnuts and washers that fit. It’s frustrating, but what else can you do?

3.) If you have access to a hot knife, melt the ends of the lines before you start sailing. For some reason Fulcrum is sending the lines unfinished. Ends are clearly cut with scissors, not a hot knife. You could whip them if you have those tools/skills in your kit. 
 

4.) Don’t bother with the lines for the dolly that they provide. Get yourself a couple 8” bungee cords for attaching the hull to the dolly. The line they send is too thick to tie a proper knot that won’t untie itself. Tight bungees make your life much easier. 
 

If you’re still struggling and haven’t heard back from Fulcrum, send me a PM and I can help you through everything. 
 

I’m going to post up my experience on the process of taking delivery of one of these boats at some point. These guys are on to something, but there’s some really obvious growing pains showing their teeth. 

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Sail track separation at the hounds. So went out last week in 12-15 knots of breeze and the first time I got spreader tension near the recommended 40kg.    Was planning to go out today in 15+ knots until I connected the shrouds to the hound.  Both sides pulled about a half inch under the track and into the fillet.

Found a Nick Burritoughs post from 7-22-2019 that suggested using Plexus MA300, 310 or 320.   Any recommendations on how to repair?

Sail_track_separation.jpg

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4 hours ago, Joseph Lapp said:

Sail track separation at the hounds. So went out last week in 12-15 knots of breeze and the first time I got spreader tension near the recommended 40kg.    Was planning to go out today in 15+ knots until I connected the shrouds to the hound.  Both sides pulled about a half inch under the track and into the fillet.

Found a Nick Burritoughs post from 7-22-2019 that suggested using Plexus MA300, 310 or 320.   Any recommendations on how to repair?

Sail_track_separation.jpg

Looks like it's a little late. You need to talk to @Dave Clark or Kirk at Fulcrum.  The upgrade kit would recommend the plexus fillet just below that opening for a couple of inches.  

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Is there a PHRF number for a UFO?  I know it's corny but somebody asked me last night and other than saying that it's probably negative, I had no idea.  Has anybody done the legwork?  

For the record, I prefer OD only.

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16 minutes ago, WCB said:

Is there a PHRF number for a UFO?  I know it's corny but somebody asked me last night and other than saying that it's probably negative, I had no idea.  Has anybody done the legwork?  

For the record, I prefer OD only.

We should have a tornado-ufo shootout. Then at least a Portsmouth could be deduced :-)

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7 hours ago, WCB said:

Looks like it's a little late. You need to talk to @Dave Clark or Kirk at Fulcrum.  The upgrade kit would recommend the plexus fillet just below that opening for a couple of inches.  

Strop is wedging up the track. Frustrating. Push the track back down and add more plexus. Take a square file to the inside of the gap and square off the gap in the track where the stop bears to cut down the wedging action. Plexus isn't an epoxy, it's a plastic bonding methakrylate adhesive which fizzes its way into composites and plastics. Cleaning matters, sanding not so much. 

DRC

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Dave

what Plexus product should I use?  Are there different products to attach the track and repair the fillet?  I can clamp the track back down on the mast.  

Thank you

Joe

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4 minutes ago, Joseph Lapp said:

Dave

what Plexus product should I use?  Are there different products to attach the track and repair the fillet?  I can clamp the track back down on the mast.  

Thank you

Joe

Glad that Dave thinks it's an easy fix.  There's a nice Plexus kit at US Plastics. https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=85724  The plunger and nozzle are key though you can live without the nozzle.  This should be enough to do all of the Plexus fixes on the boat.  At the hounds and above and below the mast collar.

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On 7/16/2020 at 4:40 AM, martin 'hoff said:

Is there a PY for a Wazsp? I'd hazard the UFO score is not too far. 

49er is around 68, and I suppose Wazsp could be around 58 (according to europeans handicaps)

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Had an epic noon sail with one UFO a small outboard skiff, my brother, my sister-in-law, and my wife today. Lindsey (sister in law) passed a learn to sail class five years ago and hasn't had a chance to sail since. She went first and was elated to tack, gybe, and get some modest foil-assisted planing in. I'm glad to have given her a chance to get another taste of sailing. She's trying to figure out how to do more. Katie (wife), who has now taken 8 or so serious UFO-centric learn to sail lessons from me this summer on weekends is now flying a hull and very nearly foiling (aft 18 inches of the leeward hull barely touching). Her sheet hand is developing very quickly with a lot of carryover from her experience riding horses. She went second. Her tacks have become very solid. The pointer "just force and manhandle it through- jam the mainsail over with a stiff arm and don't let it get any ideas" appears to garner very decisive results from someone who wrestles horses for fun. Willy went last and had the longest outing, since it was his 32nd birthday. The guy can really shred. "Okay, Willy, I'm going to set you up with a medium ride height to-" "NO DAVE I WANT IT ALL!" He's stalling the mainsail by oversheeting from time to time and which is intermittently causing him to roll in, but besides that, he's just slaying it. It was the perfect family day on a flukey little river. Wind over the outing started at 6 to 10 knots and climbed up to 8 to 14. The river is gusty and shifty. Old beat up hull #73, with countless grungey, neglected, or badly worn parts is still chugging along doing what the UFO was built for.  Two flat out novice sailors, two seasoned elite sailors, all having a great day with a single boat. Today I'm a very happy though badly sunburned boatbuilder. I have vids, though getting the time to get through them and put them up will be the limiting factor. Katie and I have been recording her learning curve because A. It's pretty entertaining. B. A long form documentary of someone learning the boat from zero experience with boats is the best possible way to pass on all necessary information. A student with zero pervious knowledge means you can't assume anything as far as initial user knowledge. She's determined to go from beginner to flyer in one summer. It's a laudably bold goal.

DRC

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Glad to hear that Dave had a good weekend foiling down on the coast.   Up on Lake Champlain, we also enjoyed some terrific sailing conditions, particularly on Sunday.   We had Southerly winds, which means shifty and gusty, with lulls 8-10 and gusts up to 20.   What made yesterday particularly fun was the company.   A good friend was in town with his Exocet Moth.   Two neighbors were sailing with their foiling windsurfers.  So we had four foiling craft rocketing around the bay.   I suspect Shelburne Bay may have  been the foiling epicenter of New England for the afternoon.   It was great fun!   We also had a few catamarans out, and I was able to drag race my wife and son on our new RS14 Cat a few times.   The UFO, in the 10-15 knot wind range, was marginally faster.   As the winds rose in the puffs, the cat was able to overtake, largely do to challenges controlling the UFO in the big gusts.   My wife, 2 sons, and I were out on the water for over 4 hours., made a few swaps between the cat, the UFO, and the moth.   It was an effort not to head to bed before dinner...I was fried.

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I'll add to this momentum. #116 and I think it's #126 here in Park City, UT went out last Friday.  Breeze was up and down and shifty so it would be foiling conditions and then displacement mode for a bit waiting for the next puff.  I got #116 up on foils quite a bit and was working the mainsheet to try to maintain the foil duration so that I could get a baseline feel.  I need faster body movement as I was going nose high a lot and crashing down.  I'm interested in Dave's comment about over sheeting because it seemed like that is what I may have been doing.  I also went max high on the wand as I have moth experience but that seems like a bad idea in hindsight so I'll drop it down a little for the next ride.  I need to spend a little more time with sail setup ahead of time and work harder on body movement. Some time doing core work would help.

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Hey team, I was out yesterday with my 7 year old son and had a blast.  We actually got foiling--not for very long, but it was fun!  Having two people on the boat is a bit tight but it does work.  

When I was out however, I sheared the screws that hold the shroud tension cleat onto the bottom mast section.  This is the second time this has happened to me.  Has anyone bonded the cleat to the mast?  I'm just not sure #8 screws are up to the task of holding all that tension.  Has anyone else had the same issue?  Thoughts?

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