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Bendytoys - the good, the bad & the ugly


Maxx Baqustae

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I love this topic because it goes on and on and the debate never advances. But a lot of interesting views come out on other brands and examples of use.

Bottom line is you generally get what you pay for. As owner of a 2008 36.7, I know I can buy a better built and/or faster boat, but it will cost me more. Do I want to pay for a boat that will meet my needs, or a boat that will meet the needs I wish I had? As a recreational owner, my use is probably above average demanding for my circumstances. While I have crossed oceans and raced on some pretty interesting boats, those are the exclamation points and not my daily life. On this boat, I sail and race on the great lakes. For those inshore, freshwater, light to moderate air conditions, it does fine. I would say it represents good value in a multi-purpose boat, and there is the bonus of limited OD racing. The construction quality is adequate and the equipment reasonable for my use. For someone who wants beauty below decks, beware as the finishes are somewhat fragile veneer on marine plywood and easily damaged. I wouldn't want to use this for something like Newport Bermuda and don't really think it can be used as an offshore boat without significant modification, and even then I'd opt for something else. For instance, while you can latch the icebox closed, the cabin sole boards are not fastened in place(?). At least the beer is safe in a knockdown. But that isn't what is intended for. If you have different needs, you can get a more appropriate boat. But for certain uses, this will be just fine.

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I love this topic because it goes on and on and the debate never advances. But a lot of interesting views come out on other brands and examples of use.

Bottom line is you generally get what you pay for. As owner of a 2008 36.7, I know I can buy a better built and/or faster boat, but it will cost me more. Do I want to pay for a boat that will meet my needs, or a boat that will meet the needs I wish I had? As a recreational owner, my use is probably above average demanding for my circumstances. While I have crossed oceans and raced on some pretty interesting boats, those are the exclamation points and not my daily life. On this boat, I sail and race on the great lakes. For those inshore, freshwater, light to moderate air conditions, it does fine. I would say it represents good value in a multi-purpose boat, and there is the bonus of limited OD racing. The construction quality is adequate and the equipment reasonable for my use. For someone who wants beauty below decks, beware as the finishes are somewhat fragile veneer on marine plywood and easily damaged. I wouldn't want to use this for something like Newport Bermuda and don't really think it can be used as an offshore boat without significant modification, and even then I'd opt for something else. For instance, while you can latch the icebox closed, the cabin sole boards are not fastened in place(?). At least the beer is safe in a knockdown. But that isn't what is intended for. If you have different needs, you can get a more appropriate boat. But for certain uses, this will be just fine.

You do know that a 36.7 won the Newport/Bermuda race a few year ago, right? They had a pretty active sail back to NY due to some severe weather. A 36.7 also did quite well double-handed in a recent 'round Britain race while several bigger more expensive boats dropped out due to equipment damage. They are stout little fuckers and will take you where you need with proper preparation, maintenance and prudent seamanship as many other production boats will.

I drive a Ford. I can't afford a Mercedes. The Ford gets me where I need to go reliably just like my 36.7.

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They are the Fords of the yacht world. They use reasonable quality components, the design and manufacturing is done pretty well, but they are not designed or built to be exceptional. As a few examples:

 

1) they come with fixed props, nothing wrong with a fixed prop, but for about $1k more they could have feathering props instead.

2) the deck hardware is acceptably sized but they design for a maximum work input of 50lbs on a winch (the normal max for a fit adult). Going up in size on the winches could reduce that to 25lbs easily, but would add $3k to the cost of a 40' so they don't.

3) cast iron keels...

 

One thing from a seller's perspective, they do not have a history of major problems. They work as intended and as promised.

 

by the same metric...

Catalina -GMC

Hunter - Chevy

Swan - BMW

X-Yachts - Audi

Most J-Boats - Ford Mustang

Some J-Boats - Shelby Mustang

Hinkley - Rolls Royce

 

Pretty close.

 

As to the gear sizing etc. - everything is upgradeable when ordering - lead keels are a big upcharge, winches can be upsized etc. The local Jenny dealer automatically replaced all the manual heads with electrics in everything over 40'.

 

All you have to do is pay for it. They size things "adequate" to get a competitive advertised price - very much the same as all those auto manufacturers used to do with their thousand page options list. I can remember a column in an auto mag BITD where the guy demonstrated that GM could build literally millions of Camaros with no two exactly alike. You could get a stripped 6 cyl. model for $2200 up to a ZL1 for $9500 (twice the price of a Corvette). Many, if not all the production boats are not unlike that - people just aren't willing to pay $75K more on a 40' to get all that better stuff.

 

A couple of years ago I watched a guy restore an old 32' First that had gone on the rocks (and I do mean rocks). Gouged up the hull pretty well, bent the stanchions & pulpits etc. but no structural damage, no bent keel, no bent rudder etc. Still, it was totaled by the insurance and he got it for scrap price. Fixed it himself and made about 20 grand on resale.

 

I'd take an early 80's First 42 in a heartbeat.

 

A local broker (Copeland) and his family sailed all the way around on a First 38 with no problem.

 

 

I raced on a First 42 this weekend. Sturdy, fast, well-built -- no complaints. But I wouldn't touch an Oceanis with a ten foot pole.

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The keel mount system they employ in my opinion is totally unacceptable. No sump, cast iron keel mounted flush with the hull, barely adequate bolts and spacing, and bogged in hull liner that once you hit hard (and you will) all but totals the boat.

 

I know first hand since I was at the helm what happens to 40.7 when it hits hard at hull speed. The grid breaks away and 'absorbs' the impact. The owner is left with a huge insurance hassle. Almost the entire interior has to be removed to fix correctly, if correctly is even possible. The boat I was on was being navigated by a pro, "don't worry, keep going, I know these waters like the back of my hand...", Smack. I bent the wheel with my chest.

 

The boat was a mess. It was "fixed" in that everywhere they could, they reglassed the hull liner to the hull. There were areas that were inaccesible that were not fixed, but it wasn't my boat and I stayed out if it.

 

There was also at the Marina I keep my boat a bigger Bene that also ran aground. It was a total loss. The ins co sold it to someone who took months of grinding and it was also 'fixed'. I was aboard it before it was sold. Same situation as the 40.7, a total mess. This boat had a lot of shifted interior parts as well as a broken grid/hull connection. It only left the yard when the owner agreed to sign a doc stating the Yard had nothing to do with the repairs and they were in no way accountable for the repairs.

 

So to me, a Bene is boat waiting to meet the bottom.

 

The moral of this story (which is don't hit the bottom) applies to all boats.

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I love this topic because it goes on and on and the debate never advances. But a lot of interesting views come out on other brands and examples of use.

Bottom line is you generally get what you pay for. As owner of a 2008 36.7, I know I can buy a better built and/or faster boat, but it will cost me more. Do I want to pay for a boat that will meet my needs, or a boat that will meet the needs I wish I had? As a recreational owner, my use is probably above average demanding for my circumstances. While I have crossed oceans and raced on some pretty interesting boats, those are the exclamation points and not my daily life. On this boat, I sail and race on the great lakes. For those inshore, freshwater, light to moderate air conditions, it does fine. I would say it represents good value in a multi-purpose boat, and there is the bonus of limited OD racing. The construction quality is adequate and the equipment reasonable for my use. For someone who wants beauty below decks, beware as the finishes are somewhat fragile veneer on marine plywood and easily damaged. I wouldn't want to use this for something like Newport Bermuda and don't really think it can be used as an offshore boat without significant modification, and even then I'd opt for something else. For instance, while you can latch the icebox closed, the cabin sole boards are not fastened in place(?). At least the beer is safe in a knockdown. But that isn't what is intended for. If you have different needs, you can get a more appropriate boat. But for certain uses, this will be just fine.

You do know that a 36.7 won the Newport/Bermuda race a few year ago, right? They had a pretty active sail back to NY due to some severe weather. A 36.7 also did quite well double-handed in a recent 'round Britain race while several bigger more expensive boats dropped out due to equipment damage. They are stout little fuckers and will take you where you need with proper preparation, maintenance and prudent seamanship as many other production boats will.

I drive a Ford. I can't afford a Mercedes. The Ford gets me where I need to go reliably just like my 36.7.

 

 

The 36.7 is a good PHRF racer as well.

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Are the decks of B36.7s slipperier than other decks when wet? I almost went overboard while going down to skirt the genoa in last weekend's Beneteau Cup. My 9-month-old Sperrys stick well enough on my old 4ksb, a Pearson Flier, and an S2 10.3, even when the decks are wet. But not on a wet B36.7. Is it just me and my shoes?

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Nope. It's been five years since I did mast on a 36.7 and I still have the scars from almost going through the lifelines, multiple times. If it were just bad non-skid on a flat deck it'd be one thing but throw in the rounded coach roof and it's a recipe for disaster. Our bow guy just went barefoot. Claimed his footing was better that way.

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I love this topic because it goes on and on and the debate never advances. But a lot of interesting views come out on other brands and examples of use.

Bottom line is you generally get what you pay for. As owner of a 2008 36.7, I know I can buy a better built and/or faster boat, but it will cost me more. Do I want to pay for a boat that will meet my needs, or a boat that will meet the needs I wish I had? As a recreational owner, my use is probably above average demanding for my circumstances. While I have crossed oceans and raced on some pretty interesting boats, those are the exclamation points and not my daily life. On this boat, I sail and race on the great lakes. For those inshore, freshwater, light to moderate air conditions, it does fine. I would say it represents good value in a multi-purpose boat, and there is the bonus of limited OD racing. The construction quality is adequate and the equipment reasonable for my use. For someone who wants beauty below decks, beware as the finishes are somewhat fragile veneer on marine plywood and easily damaged. I wouldn't want to use this for something like Newport Bermuda and don't really think it can be used as an offshore boat without significant modification, and even then I'd opt for something else. For instance, while you can latch the icebox closed, the cabin sole boards are not fastened in place(?). At least the beer is safe in a knockdown. But that isn't what is intended for. If you have different needs, you can get a more appropriate boat. But for certain uses, this will be just fine.

You do know that a 36.7 won the Newport/Bermuda race a few year ago, right? They had a pretty active sail back to NY due to some severe weather. A 36.7 also did quite well double-handed in a recent 'round Britain race while several bigger more expensive boats dropped out due to equipment damage. They are stout little fuckers and will take you where you need with proper preparation, maintenance and prudent seamanship as many other production boats will.

I drive a Ford. I can't afford a Mercedes. The Ford gets me where I need to go reliably just like my 36.7.

 

 

The 36.7 is a good PHRF racer as well.

 

 

Funny, all the NeverFirst 36.7s on our pond are just plain s l o w. They enjoy reasonably good racing amongst themselves but are they competitive in a mixed performance based handicap fleet or on IRC? Nah, no way, not even close.

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I love this topic because it goes on and on and the debate never advances. But a lot of interesting views come out on other brands and examples of use.

Bottom line is you generally get what you pay for. As owner of a 2008 36.7, I know I can buy a better built and/or faster boat, but it will cost me more. Do I want to pay for a boat that will meet my needs, or a boat that will meet the needs I wish I had? As a recreational owner, my use is probably above average demanding for my circumstances. While I have crossed oceans and raced on some pretty interesting boats, those are the exclamation points and not my daily life. On this boat, I sail and race on the great lakes. For those inshore, freshwater, light to moderate air conditions, it does fine. I would say it represents good value in a multi-purpose boat, and there is the bonus of limited OD racing. The construction quality is adequate and the equipment reasonable for my use. For someone who wants beauty below decks, beware as the finishes are somewhat fragile veneer on marine plywood and easily damaged. I wouldn't want to use this for something like Newport Bermuda and don't really think it can be used as an offshore boat without significant modification, and even then I'd opt for something else. For instance, while you can latch the icebox closed, the cabin sole boards are not fastened in place(?). At least the beer is safe in a knockdown. But that isn't what is intended for. If you have different needs, you can get a more appropriate boat. But for certain uses, this will be just fine.

You do know that a 36.7 won the Newport/Bermuda race a few year ago, right? They had a pretty active sail back to NY due to some severe weather. A 36.7 also did quite well double-handed in a recent 'round Britain race while several bigger more expensive boats dropped out due to equipment damage. They are stout little fuckers and will take you where you need with proper preparation, maintenance and prudent seamanship as many other production boats will.

I drive a Ford. I can't afford a Mercedes. The Ford gets me where I need to go reliably just like my 36.7.

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I do know about Newport-Bermuda. I understand the boat was unable to meet the mandatory stability rating until a lead shoe was added to the keel. I would expect there was some other work required - like fastening the sole to grid so boards aren't flying about in a knock down. I like my boat but it is what it is and, from my perspective, it isn't ready for offshore out of the box. But that's not how most people use them. And for their typical uses, I think they are built just fine.

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I do know about Newport-Bermuda. I understand the boat was unable to meet the mandatory stability rating until a lead shoe was added to the keel. I would expect there was some other work required - like fastening the sole to grid so boards aren't flying about in a knock down. I like my boat but it is what it is and, from my perspective, it isn't ready for offshore out of the box. But that's not how most people use them. And for their typical uses, I think they are built just fine.

The shoe controversy was and still is overblown. The boat was basically stock. do some research before weighing in with an uninformed opinion. Several threads and discussions here about the specific boat. Find them, rad them and then come back and comment.

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by the same metric...

Catalina -GMC Chevy

Hunter - Chevy Kia

Swan - BMW Bentley

X-Yachts - Audi

Most J-Boats - Ford Mustang Ford Explorer (Solid, well built, does what its supposed to in a utilitarian sort of way. Even has a "sport" model)

Some J-Boats - Shelby Mustang Chevy Camaro (heavy but reasonably fast in a straight line)

Hinkley - Rolls Royce

Not bad. Not bad at all! lol.gif

 

 

FIFY above.

 

Some additions:

 

Mac26x - Pontiac Aztek

Most Farrs - Porsche 911

Beneteau - Jeep

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I do know about Newport-Bermuda. I understand the boat was unable to meet the mandatory stability rating until a lead shoe was added to the keel. I would expect there was some other work required - like fastening the sole to grid so boards aren't flying about in a knock down. I like my boat but it is what it is and, from my perspective, it isn't ready for offshore out of the box. But that's not how most people use them. And for their typical uses, I think they are built just fine.

The shoe controversy was and still is overblown. The boat was basically stock. do some research before weighing in with an uninformed opinion. Several threads and discussions here about the specific boat. Find them, rad them and then come back and comment.
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I don't think it's an uninformed opinion. The thread includes lots of the usual criticism of production boats. My point was simply that, as manufactured for their price point, these boats do have limitations but that they are pretty well-built generally, and certainly well enough for their intended use. And commenting on the quality of construction of the boat that I own, race and maintain in my own opinion of whether I would be willing to take it offshore.

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I do know about Newport-Bermuda. I understand the boat was unable to meet the mandatory stability rating until a lead shoe was added to the keel. I would expect there was some other work required - like fastening the sole to grid so boards aren't flying about in a knock down. I like my boat but it is what it is and, from my perspective, it isn't ready for offshore out of the box. But that's not how most people use them. And for their typical uses, I think they are built just fine.

Your cabin sole boards aren't fastened to the grid? Mine are and were from the factory.

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The 2008 has a jigsaw puzzle of tightly fitted boards, none too large, which makes them easy to remove for cleaning and inspection, but only the ones where the table supports connect to the grid and where the mast steps are actually fastened in place, the others do not have any fastening point. Batteries also require additional fastening, Otherwise I'd say things are reasonably well secured. To my earlier point, I think they are well-built for their typical uses. Hanging wet locker would also be nice for extended offshore.

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Give CHJ a break. He has spent good money, and from his comments knows enough to pick fit for purpose.

I was given the keys to a 36.7 demonstrator / trade in by the Beneteau dealer a number of years ago. It was a nice harbour coastal boat. We loved it in W/L to 15kn, and enjoyed the long races in all conditions.

For NZ competition it was way too slow reaching, and wouldn't get up and boogie downwind in a breeze. I hit over 14kn flat running main only with 1 reef and it was soooo loaded up!

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I raced aboard a Sydney 3600 (racer/cruiser model with full interior) for years that had a 36.7 and 40.7 in our section. We just sailed away from the 36.7 in all conditions - and paced the 40.7 very effectively, enjoying good boat-for-boat racing. And, as you would expect, the Sydney cost a good deal more - and it isn't like IT was perfect from the factory either.

 

Have a good bud here in the islands that bought a Bendy 323 ( I think that's an Oceanus series ) from a (now defunct) charter outfit, - and an insurance salvage, an employee put it on Barber's point and stove a hole in the side about the size of a nice sofa. Totaled. I mean it was a complete fucking MESS.

 

Full-on rebuild of the center third of one side required - took him 2+ years of evenings and weekends - but did stellar work, even re-sprayed the gelcoat on the repaired side, you can't tell where it was damaged now, even looking inside the cabinets in the head.

 

Anyway, it's not the fastest boat to be sure (in-mast furling is the first clue) but you know what ? It sails fine, and for sunset-sailing and cruising in decent conditions it has stood up just fine. The owner is a very experienced sailor and is more than satisfied with his choice and investment and there is nearly always a party aboard - who is to say he's wrong ?

 

It's funny, I have NEVER heard of someone criticizing an automobile for being damaged in a crash but somehow boats are supposed to be made of the stuff they build aviation data recorders out of. I will agree with one point however, I'm not a fan of their molded in non-skid - it IS both sharp AND slippery.

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All those production boats are comparable, and have similar issues to tge Beneteau. Indeed they all have similar design briefs so are made to do the same job essentially. Since Beneteau acquired Jeanneau they have differentiated them by improving the quality and cost of build so the newer boats are better, but more expensive.

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All those production boats are comparable, and have similar issues to tge Beneteau. Indeed they all have similar design briefs so are made to do the same job essentially. Since Beneteau acquired Jeanneau they have differentiated them by improving the quality and cost of build so the newer boats are better, but more expensive.

 

Are you referring the the above list of Dehler, Dufour, Hanse, Grand Soleil.? And you think these are comparable as in similar?

Then, I am sorry to say, you are not well informed, to put it mildly.

 

Dehler - typical german high quality. Since mid 1980-ies they have been fast, very fast. Have always been full of innovative ideas. As many longtime boatbuilders they have gone burst some few times, now owned by Hanse.

 

Dufour - french. Good quality (but not in the same class as Dehler), but nobody can call these boats fast.

 

Hanse - cost effective. Some models are interesting, sometime they want to put their signum to the interior - for a long time it was very (meaning very very) glossy varnished woodwork. Certainly an alternative to Bene, and better than Bav.

 

Grand Soleil - italian, executive class ... was for many years said to be the South Europe version of Nautor/Swan (not really valid anymore when the smallest Swan is 50 ft).

 

/J

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I stand corrected Oscar they also branded the 51 as a First...no doubt as a owners version to differentiate it from the charter version done for Moorings. This vid is a funny time capsule from 30 years ago. Not sure they put in their promo material today that you can take a Benny into the Southern Ocean.

 

 

 

I loved that boat.

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I raced aboard a Sydney 3600 (racer/cruiser model with full interior) for years that had a 36.7 and 40.7 in our section. We just sailed away from the 36.7 in all conditions - and paced the 40.7 very effectively, enjoying good boat-for-boat racing. And, as you would expect, the Sydney cost a good deal more - and it isn't like IT was perfect from the factory either.

 

Have a good bud here in the islands that bought a Bendy 323 ( I think that's an Oceanus series ) from a (now defunct) charter outfit, - and an insurance salvage, an employee put it on Barber's point and stove a hole in the side about the size of a nice sofa. Totaled. I mean it was a complete fucking MESS.

 

Full-on rebuild of the center third of one side required - took him 2+ years of evenings and weekends - but did stellar work, even re-sprayed the gelcoat on the repaired side, you can't tell where it was damaged now, even looking inside the cabinets in the head.

 

Anyway, it's not the fastest boat to be sure (in-mast furling is the first clue) but you know what ? It sails fine, and for sunset-sailing and cruising in decent conditions it has stood up just fine. The owner is a very experienced sailor and is more than satisfied with his choice and investment and there is nearly always a party aboard - who is to say he's wrong ?

 

It's funny, I have NEVER heard of someone criticizing an automobile for being damaged in a crash but somehow boats are supposed to be made of the stuff they build aviation data recorders out of. I will agree with one point however, I'm not a fan of their molded in non-skid - it IS both sharp AND slippery.

 

Surely not a fair comparison given that the Bene has to cart around a household lot of furniture.

Which one would you rather spend a week on (with the wife)?

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Thanks folks. I'd been cruising for awhile but I'm trying not put my bias in this for most euro-fag floating condos that seem to be more & more prevalent showing up at dealers and boat shows. You have made some good points on some of the models like the 80's/90's 38's and 42's however I'm more looking at very late model or damn near new. I know some of the rudder/stock/tube issues as I have a friend that had to turn back from the Maui race and although I didn't get the full story but apparently it was fixable. Then rejoined the race, got the boat back to the west coast and understand he buggered off to Mexico last week so apparently is doing okay.

 

Not a hater, just curious and I was asked. But if any one has a comment with any late model issues otherwise I'll leave this to an end.

 

Many thanks campers

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jc172582,

 

not sure why it's not a fair comparison - the 3600 I sailed was as fully-furnished at the 36.7, it just was clearly built a level above, for the most part (there were a few strange details) - and much faster, especially when it blew and got rude. But that model from Sydney had a nice, full interior. I miss that boat.

 

And I checked on my friend that did the rebuild and it's a 331, but I'll stand by everything else - that guy sails on numerous race boats and still enjoys his Bene for what it is - a great condo on the water, that he can, and does put to sea in more often than most.

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I've just seen this on a Spanish forum:

 

image.jpg

 

 

Resulting in this:

 

image_2.jpg

 

It's an Oceanis 38, on her maiden voyage.

 

Same model, different boat, from a French forum: apparently an owner complained about some cracks around the stanchions and the shipyard fixed it like this:

 

The problem:

 

IMG_0176.JPG

 

IMG_0178.JPG

 

The fix:

 

IMG_0233.JPG

 

WTF???

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Is that pic the factory chainplate mounting? :o

 

Maybe good enough for a turning block on a 30' - maybe.

 

That meets those Brussels standards for "open ocean"?

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jc172582,

 

not sure why it's not a fair comparison - the 3600 I sailed was as fully-furnished at the 36.7, it just was clearly built a level above, for the most part (there were a few strange details) - and much faster, especially when it blew and got rude. But that model from Sydney had a nice, full interior. I miss that boat.

 

And I checked on my friend that did the rebuild and it's a 331, but I'll stand by everything else - that guy sails on numerous race boats and still enjoys his Bene for what it is - a great condo on the water, that he can, and does put to sea in more often than most.

 

I hear ya. But the Sydney doesn't have private cabins and ikea flat packs.

Love the 36CR, lines and interior.

gallery1.jpg

gallery6.jpg

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Is that pic the factory chainplate mounting? :o

 

Maybe good enough for a turning block on a 30' - maybe.

 

That meets those Brussels standards for "open ocean"?

Apparently she has a Class A certification. I think these are built for charter but this is reckless. From the pictures of the inside of the boat I've seen, I think the galley got in the way of the stanchions and the galley won...

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I can't imagine any yacht designer spec'ing that.

 

Hell, I can't imagine any 1st time amateur builder doing anything that sketchy.

 

Maybe on a 15' dinghy or something like that.

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I've just seen this on a Spanish forum:

 

image.jpg

 

 

Resulting in this:

 

image_2.jpg

 

It's an Oceanis 38, on her maiden voyage.

 

Same model, different boat, from a French forum: apparently an owner complained about some cracks around the stanchions and the shipyard fixed it like this:

 

The problem:

 

IMG_0176.JPG

 

IMG_0178.JPG

 

The fix:

 

IMG_0233.JPG

 

WTF???

If that really is the chainplate for the cap shrouds, the yard's fix is not good enough IMHO. The load needs to be spread further down into the structure, perhaps by tying a rod into the backing plate and extending it down the hull to another plate glassed in down low..

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I can't imagine any yacht designer spec'ing that.

 

Hell, I can't imagine any 1st time amateur builder doing anything that sketchy.

 

Maybe on a 15' dinghy or something like that.

 

I imagine Wichard aren't terribly thrilled either.

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What's the problem? They put the second nut on so it wouldn't come loose. It's all good!

 

Funny that the new backing plate is almost exactly the same size and shape as the hole in the Spanish boat.

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I've just seen this on a Spanish forum:

 

image.jpg

 

 

Resulting in this:

 

image_2.jpg

 

It's an Oceanis 38, on her maiden voyage.

 

Same model, different boat, from a French forum: apparently an owner complained about some cracks around the stanchions and the shipyard fixed it like this:

 

The problem:

 

IMG_0176.JPG

 

IMG_0178.JPG

 

The fix:

 

IMG_0233.JPG

 

WTF???

If that really is the chainplate for the cap shrouds, the yard's fix is not good enough IMHO. The load needs to be spread further down into the structure, perhaps by tying a rod into the backing plate and extending it down the hull to another plate glassed in down low..

 

Exactly, by the way I can't edit my previous post, I said, "stanchions" and I meant "chainplates"... My bad

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Double wow. Not spreading the load with that quick fix plate (hardly doing anything but a thick washer) and doubling the nuts - seriously? The build design in that area is bloody awful in the first place. It looks like a McGregor build.

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Frankly, I think there's something funny there. It's not as though Beneteau suddenly forgot how to make boats. Do they look for ways to drive down production costs to meet a price point, yes. Do some of those ways involve looking for new ways to gain a competitive cost advantage, yes. But this is so intuitively a bad design even bean counters should know better.

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I love this topic because it goes on and on and the debate never advances. But a lot of interesting views come out on other brands and examples of use.

Bottom line is you generally get what you pay for. As owner of a 2008 36.7, I know I can buy a better built and/or faster boat, but it will cost me more. Do I want to pay for a boat that will meet my needs, or a boat that will meet the needs I wish I had? As a recreational owner, my use is probably above average demanding for my circumstances. While I have crossed oceans and raced on some pretty interesting boats, those are the exclamation points and not my daily life. On this boat, I sail and race on the great lakes. For those inshore, freshwater, light to moderate air conditions, it does fine. I would say it represents good value in a multi-purpose boat, and there is the bonus of limited OD racing. The construction quality is adequate and the equipment reasonable for my use. For someone who wants beauty below decks, beware as the finishes are somewhat fragile veneer on marine plywood and easily damaged. I wouldn't want to use this for something like Newport Bermuda and don't really think it can be used as an offshore boat without significant modification, and even then I'd opt for something else. For instance, while you can latch the icebox closed, the cabin sole boards are not fastened in place(?). At least the beer is safe in a knockdown. But that isn't what is intended for. If you have different needs, you can get a more appropriate boat. But for certain uses, this will be just fine.

You do know that a 36.7 won the Newport/Bermuda race a few year ago, right? They had a pretty active sail back to NY due to some severe weather. A 36.7 also did quite well double-handed in a recent 'round Britain race while several bigger more expensive boats dropped out due to equipment damage. They are stout little fuckers and will take you where you need with proper preparation, maintenance and prudent seamanship as many other production boats will.

I drive a Ford. I can't afford a Mercedes. The Ford gets me where I need to go reliably just like my 36.7.

 

 

The 36.7 is a good PHRF racer as well.

 

 

Funny, all the NeverFirst 36.7s on our pond are just plain s l o w. They enjoy reasonably good racing amongst themselves but are they competitive in a mixed performance based handicap fleet or on IRC? Nah, no way, not even close.

 

BEACHBALLS ;-)

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It's so unbelievable that it's... unbelievable. We're getting third-hand info here.

Third hand?

 

It's a freaking picture!

 

 

A picture of what? Everybody's guessing, and the text accompanying the picture is dubious. I trust that you relayed the text correctly (the second time), but I don't trust the upstream channel.

 

People enjoy being outraged, so they often jump to conclusions that support outrage.

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My guess is that the structural design should use the hull deck join, and what looks like a moulded in fore and aft girder at the join, to take the loads, transferring some to the transverse support you can see running up to deck level? The U bolts look small? Nevertheless I am sure someone did the structural analysis and they believe it is solid. I would need to see a lot more to be reassured .....

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It's so unbelievable that it's... unbelievable. We're getting third-hand info here.

Third hand?

 

It's a freaking picture!

 

 

A picture of what? Everybody's guessing, and the text accompanying the picture is dubious. I trust that you relayed the text correctly (the second time), but I don't trust the upstream channel.

 

People enjoy being outraged, so they often jump to conclusions that support outrage.

 

 

rzfh1.jpg

 

I am outraged at your comments.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I found their natural element! 15 to 20 sustained on Kentucky lake and the only boats playing with my Rhodes 22 was a bendy 38 and a couple others of the same size. Sorry no pics, my hands were quite full. I love a hurricane to feed a breeze inland.

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I found their natural element! 15 to 20 sustained on Kentucky lake and the only boats playing with my Rhodes 22 was a bendy 38 and a couple others of the same size. Sorry no pics, my hands were quite full. I love a hurricane to feed a breeze inland.

 

A 38' on a lake? :rolleyes:

 

Someone has too much money.

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I found their natural element! 15 to 20 sustained on Kentucky lake and the only boats playing with my Rhodes 22 was a bendy 38 and a couple others of the same size. Sorry no pics, my hands were quite full. I love a hurricane to feed a breeze inland.

 

A 38' on a lake? :rolleyes:

 

Someone has too much money.

 

Fair and balanced, for those who are unfamiliar with Kentucky Lake. It is a 25 miles long reservoir, connected by deep channel to a slightly smaller sister. It connects to the Ohio river via locks, and therefore has access to Lake Michigan and the Gulf of Mexico. My final sail back to the ramp was delayed by a push tug spinning 15 barges around and heading off toward Huntsville Alabama. There is even a commercial fishing boat (an aluminum box modeled after a Higgins boat, with 100 hp outboard).

 

On the other hand, it is clearly protected waters. The day of the kick ass winds several local fisherman tried to warn me out of leaving the mostly power yacht and houseboat marina by the ramp, which was where I spent the night. They advised me it wasn't safe for a small boat. We did wear PFD. There was 2-3 foot chop (uncomfortable on a broad reach) with a lot of white, but well within the abilities of a 22 foot sailboat with stub keel/centerboard and reefed sails. Yet out of hundreds of boats, I only saw three others sailing in the winds, all over 30 foot. I only got close enough to ID the bendy.

 

Lighthouse Landing marina and resort caters to sailboats. There was another Rhodes 22, a Capri 22, a handful of Hunter 223s, a few fixed keels in the 25 foot range, what I think was an old quarter toner zombie, and lawyer row (where my outboard stalled leaving me adrift). Many fairly new 30 plus foot Hunters and Beneteaus sitting proudly seemed to typify the resident sailboats, though there were older but serviceable models. There were even several really big (40-50 foot) boats, including a center cockpit. Since my new motor was cranky I tried very hard not to get too close to boats with names like "Time and Advice". One slipholder, who had downsized to a nice pocket cruiser so he could single hand better, admitted he never saw a third of the boats leave the marina. I have the theory that the marina caters to sailboats partially because they provide a relaxed genteel image that helps them rent cottages.overlooking the marina and lake. They also have a lift and provide sailing lessons on a squadron of Colgate 26s. It was fun to see more sailboats then powerboats for once.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Apologies for reviving a dormant thread here but one of the things not considered in the hashing and rehashing of things Beneteaux (like that? :D ) is support from the manufacturer and dealer network. I mention this because I went under contract to buy a First 40.7 recently. I have to take my hat off to the local (to me in SD) Beneteau dealer, South Coast Yachts and Beneteau itself. The sea trial and engine survey turned up some issues having nothing to do with the build quality and subsequent negotiations got me involved in finding solutions. The dealer has been outstanding about researching parts, information and offering solutions and Beneteau has a complete parts inventory of every boat they ever shipped, making sourcing a much more manageable process. Considering that the boat in question isn't even in this dealer's area and it's about sixteen years since it was shipped by the manufacturer, I am completely blown away. I have to wonder how many other sailboat lines can match that, if they're even still around?

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I've done a fair bit of work on First 235s and I think for a a 24 footer the interior setup is incredible. Like insanely smart use of space. With the exception of drooping headliners and carpet lining, pretty impressed with the build.

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It's so unbelievable that it's... unbelievable. We're getting third-hand info here.

 

 

Frankly, I think there's something funny there. It's not as though Beneteau suddenly forgot how to make boats. Do they look for ways to drive down production costs to meet a price point, yes. Do some of those ways involve looking for new ways to gain a competitive cost advantage, yes. But this is so intuitively a bad design even bean counters should know better.

 

I agree with the statements.

 

Also, in looking at the photos I notice that there was no photo of the actual failure of the chain (or backing) plate and judging from the apparent point of failure at deck level it does look as if the spar itself failed in some way.

 

Would not be surprised if those chain plates are actually supporting the dodger or some other ancillary piece on the boat.

 

You all need that "Jump to Conclusions" mat the guy in "The Office" movie invented.

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It's so unbelievable that it's... unbelievable. We're getting third-hand info here.

 

 

Frankly, I think there's something funny there. It's not as though Beneteau suddenly forgot how to make boats. Do they look for ways to drive down production costs to meet a price point, yes. Do some of those ways involve looking for new ways to gain a competitive cost advantage, yes. But this is so intuitively a bad design even bean counters should know better.

 

I agree with the statements.

 

Also, in looking at the photos I notice that there was no photo of the actual failure of the chain (or backing) plate and judging from the apparent point of failure at deck level it does look as if the spar itself failed in some way.

 

Would not be surprised if those chain plates are actually supporting the dodger or some other ancillary piece on the boat.

 

You all need that "Jump to Conclusions" mat the guy in "The Office" movie invented.

 

 

 

not sure what photo is not shown. there is a pic of the way the u bolts are fastened thru the hull flange and deck from the underside. there is no chain plate, just the u bolts with the small backing plates that come with the u bolts. I guess the u bolt was strong enough because it pulled right thru the deck without breaking. this method of using u bolts is found on several of the Oceanis models, the Sense models and the First models have chain plates mounted to the side of the hull.

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I think that 1st photo does not show a failure of the improved backing plate - if so would not both shrouds be attached to that failure and where are the big white turnbuckle covers? I'm thinking that they might be different boats with the depiction of what might happen if you don't undertake the recommended fix or perhaps the photo with the big white turnbuckle covers is some other piece of the boat with cracks emanating from them.

 

Of course that begs the question of why either is acceptable.

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Two different boats, the one that failed has the upper shroud still attached to the section of deck and the lower shroud ripped clean off. the big backing plate is the repair to the boat that had the cracking. the factory has beefed up the lay up on newer boats but still uses the u bolts with no bigger back up plate other then the small plates that come with the u bolts. the u bolts are strong enough but the load is not spread over a large enough area The material is not supporting the load in shear but in the weakest direction

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So what's the deal with the different names (first, oceanis, Cyclades, etc.)? Marketing or a secret code I should know.

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From my brief exposure to them, Firsts have some sailing ability, the Oceanis are dock queens, and the Cyclades are Euro-named charter boats. Possibly the same boat with a different name, but if it has four cabins in 38 feet, it's a charter boat.

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Sorry to break topic and harp again on the older models..

 

But the classic 80's Bene models are great boats - especially the 'First' models. I've been sailing as a professional superyacht captain for 8 years now, with roughly 80,000nm under my keel, and there's not a super yacht in the world I trust at sea more than my Bene.

 

She's a 1987 Bene First 435 E / TM/ CB. *Tall rig version, plus swinging, ballasted centerboard (that swings down from a 6' deep by 10' long keel section, adds 5' ft to the draft, plus a shit ton of righting moment)

 

-Do the shallow bilges suck? Yep sometimes you get some water sloshing up the sides of the floor boards.

 

-Is she physical to sail? Yep you betchya - 11 winches on deck, some with big loads + manual reefing at the mast and ergonomics that are archaic by modern standards.

 

-Is she slow? Not in my book - I mean she's not planing downwind at 15 knots like a Pogo, but she'll hang with all the modern Bene Firsts on most points of sail, averages 165-175 miles/day offshore, finger tip responsive on the helm, and seakindly motion all the while.

 

I sailed through the first & hopefully the last true 'survival' weather I've ever been through in her (90% of my miles are on superyachts big/fast enough to run around weather systems, aided by fancy/expensive sat/comms systems to keep us out of them..) and she performed beautifully. Never broke a single piece of equipment on deck even though much of the hardware was still original - its all beefy aluminum Goiot gear that you couldn't ding with a jackhammer, and the rig is a complete shithouse.

 

I've sailed plenty of the new 'BendyToys' pictured above and seen many similar issues with the underspeced chainplates/chain backing plates, shoddy workmanship, cheap materials, etc. BUT the classic ones, in my mind, are some of the most worthy racer/cruisers ever built - beautiful lines, gorgeous and comfortable interior, seakindly, tough, fast, and half the price of a similar Swan!!!

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I've just seen this on a Spanish forum:

 

image.jpg

 

 

Resulting in this:

 

image_2.jpg

 

It's an Oceanis 38, on her maiden voyage.

 

Same model, different boat, from a French forum: apparently an owner complained about some cracks around the stanchions and the shipyard fixed it like this:

 

The problem:

 

IMG_0176.JPG

 

IMG_0178.JPG

 

The fix:

 

IMG_0233.JPG

 

WTF???

 

The hole in the first pic doesn't seem to match where the U bolts are mounted in the following pics.

 

What am I missing?

 

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Sorry to break topic and harp again on the older models..

 

But the classic 80's Bene models are great boats - especially the 'First' models. I've been sailing as a professional superyacht captain for 8 years now, with roughly 80,000nm under my keel, and there's not a super yacht in the world I trust at sea more than my Bene.

 

She's a 1987 Bene First 435 E / TM/ CB. *Tall rig version, plus swinging, ballasted centerboard (that swings down from a 6' deep by 10' long keel section, adds 5' ft to the draft, plus a shit ton of righting moment)

 

-Do the shallow bilges suck? Yep sometimes you get some water sloshing up the sides of the floor boards.

 

-Is she physical to sail? Yep you betchya - 11 winches on deck, some with big loads + manual reefing at the mast and ergonomics that are archaic by modern standards.

 

-Is she slow? Not in my book - I mean she's not planing downwind at 15 knots like a Pogo, but she'll hang with all the modern Bene Firsts on most points of sail, averages 165-175 miles/day offshore, finger tip responsive on the helm, and seakindly motion all the while.

 

I sailed through the first & hopefully the last true 'survival' weather I've ever been through in her (90% of my miles are on superyachts big/fast enough to run around weather systems, aided by fancy/expensive sat/comms systems to keep us out of them..) and she performed beautifully. Never broke a single piece of equipment on deck even though much of the hardware was still original - its all beefy aluminum Goiot gear that you couldn't ding with a jackhammer, and the rig is a complete shithouse.

 

I've sailed plenty of the new 'BendyToys' pictured above and seen many similar issues with the underspeced chainplates/chain backing plates, shoddy workmanship, cheap materials, etc. BUT the classic ones, in my mind, are some of the most worthy racer/cruisers ever built - beautiful lines, gorgeous and comfortable interior, seakindly, tough, fast, and half the price of a similar Swan!!!

I've never heard super yachts and bendy toys mentioned together before.

When did they become super yachts?

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I've just seen this on a Spanish forum:

 

image.jpg

 

 

Resulting in this:

 

image_2.jpg

 

It's an Oceanis 38, on her maiden voyage.

 

Same model, different boat, from a French forum: apparently an owner complained about some cracks around the stanchions and the shipyard fixed it like this:

 

The problem:

 

IMG_0176.JPG

 

IMG_0178.JPG

 

The fix:

 

IMG_0233.JPG

 

WTF???

 

The hole in the first pic doesn't seem to match where the U bolts are mounted in the following pics.

 

What am I missing?

 

 

 

It's a different boat?

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On a related note to the comments about support is the availability of parts. When models change, a lot of the components are carried forward into the new ones. As a result, B. makes replacement parts available for pretty much anything. And if it isn't in stock, they will generally make it. Recent examples for me are the anchor roller - just a bent piece of stainless and rubber roller. Out of stock, but they still bend metal and use rubber rollers, so they just did one up. And replacement keys. The keys don't match any blanks I can find at any locksmith. But for $2 each, B was happy to ship me some blanks. You have to register to access the parts site, but then you can order pretty much anything other then the hull and deck. My prior boat was out of production for some time. Not only was the manufacturer not available, but replacing parts was sometimes a frustrating quest to find the nearest current equivalent, or machine something. Being able to order OEM parts at a reasonable price makes maintenance a lot less work. Had not appreciated this before I purchased but would recommend any purchaser factor in the service support, even for older and out of production models.

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On a related note to the comments about support is the availability of parts. When models change, a lot of the components are carried forward into the new ones. As a result, B. makes replacement parts available for pretty much anything. And if it isn't in stock, they will generally make it. Recent examples for me are the anchor roller - just a bent piece of stainless and rubber roller. Out of stock, but they still bend metal and use rubber rollers, so they just did one up. And replacement keys. The keys don't match any blanks I can find at any locksmith. But for $2 each, B was happy to ship me some blanks. You have to register to access the parts site, but then you can order pretty much anything other then the hull and deck. My prior boat was out of production for some time. Not only was the manufacturer not available, but replacing parts was sometimes a frustrating quest to find the nearest current equivalent, or machine something. Being able to order OEM parts at a reasonable price makes maintenance a lot less work. Had not appreciated this before I purchased but would recommend any purchaser factor in the service support, even for older and out of production models.

 

I wish you could order deck and hull. I'd build a First 51 :). Love that boat.

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Sorry to break topic and harp again on the older models..

 

But the classic 80's Bene models are great boats - especially the 'First' models. I've been sailing as a professional superyacht captain for 8 years now, with roughly 80,000nm under my keel, and there's not a super yacht in the world I trust at sea more than my Bene.

 

She's a 1987 Bene First 435 E / TM/ CB. *Tall rig version, plus swinging, ballasted centerboard (that swings down from a 6' deep by 10' long keel section, adds 5' ft to the draft, plus a shit ton of righting moment)

 

-Do the shallow bilges suck? Yep sometimes you get some water sloshing up the sides of the floor boards.

 

-Is she physical to sail? Yep you betchya - 11 winches on deck, some with big loads + manual reefing at the mast and ergonomics that are archaic by modern standards.

 

-Is she slow? Not in my book - I mean she's not planing downwind at 15 knots like a Pogo, but she'll hang with all the modern Bene Firsts on most points of sail, averages 165-175 miles/day offshore, finger tip responsive on the helm, and seakindly motion all the while.

 

I sailed through the first & hopefully the last true 'survival' weather I've ever been through in her (90% of my miles are on superyachts big/fast enough to run around weather systems, aided by fancy/expensive sat/comms systems to keep us out of them..) and she performed beautifully. Never broke a single piece of equipment on deck even though much of the hardware was still original - its all beefy aluminum Goiot gear that you couldn't ding with a jackhammer, and the rig is a complete shithouse.

 

I've sailed plenty of the new 'BendyToys' pictured above and seen many similar issues with the underspeced chainplates/chain backing plates, shoddy workmanship, cheap materials, etc. BUT the classic ones, in my mind, are some of the most worthy racer/cruisers ever built - beautiful lines, gorgeous and comfortable interior, seakindly, tough, fast, and half the price of a similar Swan!!!

I've never heard super yachts and bendy toys mentioned together before.

When did they become super yachts?

 

Mad - wasn't calling my Bene a super yacht, certainly not - was just saying that most of my offshore experience was on larger/super yachts, for reference.

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Mad - wasn't calling my Bene a super yacht, certainly not - was just saying that most of my offshore experience was on larger/super yachts, for reference.

 

 

 

Uuuhm, and you expect Mad to understand that? Even when it is spelled out?

 

/J

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Sorry to break topic and harp again on the older models..

 

But the classic 80's Bene models are great boats - especially the 'First' models. I've been sailing as a professional superyacht captain for 8 years now, with roughly 80,000nm under my keel, and there's not a super yacht in the world I trust at sea more than my Bene.

 

She's a 1987 Bene First 435 E / TM/ CB. *Tall rig version, plus swinging, ballasted centerboard (that swings down from a 6' deep by 10' long keel section, adds 5' ft to the draft, plus a shit ton of righting moment)

 

-Do the shallow bilges suck? Yep sometimes you get some water sloshing up the sides of the floor boards.

 

-Is she physical to sail? Yep you betchya - 11 winches on deck, some with big loads + manual reefing at the mast and ergonomics that are archaic by modern standards.

 

-Is she slow? Not in my book - I mean she's not planing downwind at 15 knots like a Pogo, but she'll hang with all the modern Bene Firsts on most points of sail, averages 165-175 miles/day offshore, finger tip responsive on the helm, and seakindly motion all the while.

 

I sailed through the first & hopefully the last true 'survival' weather I've ever been through in her (90% of my miles are on superyachts big/fast enough to run around weather systems, aided by fancy/expensive sat/comms systems to keep us out of them..) and she performed beautifully. Never broke a single piece of equipment on deck even though much of the hardware was still original - its all beefy aluminum Goiot gear that you couldn't ding with a jackhammer, and the rig is a complete shithouse.

 

I've sailed plenty of the new 'BendyToys' pictured above and seen many similar issues with the underspeced chainplates/chain backing plates, shoddy workmanship, cheap materials, etc. BUT the classic ones, in my mind, are some of the most worthy racer/cruisers ever built - beautiful lines, gorgeous and comfortable interior, seakindly, tough, fast, and half the price of a similar Swan!!!

I've never heard super yachts and bendy toys mentioned together before.

When did they become super yachts?

Mad - wasn't calling my Bene a super yacht, certainly not - was just saying that most of my offshore experience was on larger/super yachts, for reference.

Understand you, the old firsts were really nice cruising/racing boats and well built, especially if you missed out on the osmosis issue they had for a couple of years.

 

Cheers

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Mad - wasn't calling my Bene a super yacht, certainly not - was just saying that most of my offshore experience was on larger/super yachts, for reference.

 

Uuuhm, and you expect Mad to understand that? Even when it is spelled out?

 

/J

And your input is.....???

 

In the meantime, fuck off. Thanks.

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  • 3 weeks later...

 

 

I've just seen this on a Spanish forum:

 

image.jpg

 

 

Resulting in this:

 

image_2.jpg

 

It's an Oceanis 38, on her maiden voyage.

 

Same model, different boat, from a French forum: apparently an owner complained about some cracks around the stanchions and the shipyard fixed it like this:

 

The problem:

 

IMG_0176.JPG

 

IMG_0178.JPG

 

The fix:

 

IMG_0233.JPG

 

WTF???

 

The hole in the first pic doesn't seem to match where the U bolts are mounted in the following pics.

 

What am I missing?

 

 

 

It's a different boat?

 

It is

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I love this topic because it goes on and on and the debate never advances. But a lot of interesting views come out on other brands and examples of use.

Bottom line is you generally get what you pay for. As owner of a 2008 36.7, I know I can buy a better built and/or faster boat, but it will cost me more. Do I want to pay for a boat that will meet my needs, or a boat that will meet the needs I wish I had? As a recreational owner, my use is probably above average demanding for my circumstances. While I have crossed oceans and raced on some pretty interesting boats, those are the exclamation points and not my daily life. On this boat, I sail and race on the great lakes. For those inshore, freshwater, light to moderate air conditions, it does fine. I would say it represents good value in a multi-purpose boat, and there is the bonus of limited OD racing. The construction quality is adequate and the equipment reasonable for my use. For someone who wants beauty below decks, beware as the finishes are somewhat fragile veneer on marine plywood and easily damaged. I wouldn't want to use this for something like Newport Bermuda and don't really think it can be used as an offshore boat without significant modification, and even then I'd opt for something else. For instance, while you can latch the icebox closed, the cabin sole boards are not fastened in place(?). At least the beer is safe in a knockdown. But that isn't what is intended for. If you have different needs, you can get a more appropriate boat. But for certain uses, this will be just fine.

+1

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I've just seen this on a Spanish forum:

 

image.jpg

 

 

Resulting in this:

 

image_2.jpg

 

It's an Oceanis 38, on her maiden voyage.

 

Same model, different boat, from a French forum: apparently an owner complained about some cracks around the stanchions and the shipyard fixed it like this:

 

The problem:

 

IMG_0176.JPG

 

IMG_0178.JPG

 

The fix:

 

IMG_0233.JPG

 

WTF???

 

Sailed on a few Bennies 381, 423, 36s7, 44.7, 36.7 and 40.7. I was part owner on a 381 for some time. The first series used to be an ok all around boat when farr was designing the hulls. The newer first product (2008<<) is crap. Pure and unadulterated. Add to this that they no longer support their sail product and you have no sane reason to buy one (unless you are trying to impress us girls :rolleyes: ) . They were on a good tear making solid boats from about 2000-2010. Anything since then is crap. Many of their dealers don't know the first about the product- Our local dealer in the bay area has a blow hard service manager and the owner is a wreck. They had some solid players in Chesapeake , Buffalo and Chicago- but I hear the players have changed.

 

Their cruisers _like the boat in this picture are sheer garbage. They haven't sold well and from what I saw in the SoCal shows- they renamed them 35.1 and 38.1 as an attempt to mask the poor Electrical issues, poor design, corners cut (to keep production costs low) while the prices have skyrocketed over the past six years.

 

There are better boats out there, but in the end you have to ask yourself - how are you going to sail her?

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