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Melges 40 - Ho Lee Fuk


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I was walking down the dock today getting the boat ready to race and stumbled across the new Melges 40 sitting in a slip. It looks like the Premier Composite boys are getting her ready to go.

 

So once I rolled my tongue back in my mouth and my erection subsided a bit, I took some snappies for the rest of you winter bound folks.

 

Saying this is a hot looking boat would be the understatement of the decade.

 

IMG_1716_zpskmqxhz5s.jpg

 

IMG_1714_zpsujmud76t.jpg

 

IMG_1712_zpsbdfk5sup.jpg

 

IMG_1713_zpsi27b0ept.jpg

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To be driven by some rich guy with a little stick, as in that tiller sure looks relatively small. Guess a well balanced boat with a small rudder doesn't need much of a tiller. Thank godness, no wheel.

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Honestly, there's no innovation in the above deck layout. In fact, it looks like a 5 year old layout job. Exposed above decks jib tracks? No obvious deck recessed staysail furler? Stantions that project beyond the sheer line and make the boat ineleibigle for certain categories of OSR races? It genuinely looks like they took the worst parts of a Farr 400 and dropped them on a new boat.

 

 

Those primary winches are EXTREMELY agricultural for the job they're doing. Compared to a Carkeek 40 or Botin 40/44 those winches stick out like a sore thumb. Metal, two speed, pro-Sumer pieces of garbage that are three inches taller and 4 pounds heavier than they need to be. They belong in the pit of a grand soleil 50, not the primaries of a Grand Prix racer. every 40 foot race boat built since 2006 has had three speed carbon primary winches. Those are...not

 

Also, I'm only seeing a single engage/disengage and "overdrive" button on the deck there by the pedestal. Meaning the bikes guy can't select into certain winches? Tha fuck? What, are both winches going to be engaged all the time except when they're not?!

 

The only thing on deck that makes sense is the runner guy getting the keel Controls. He who controls gear shifting should also get the keel. Still undefined which person onboard controls the canard. Is it line or hydraulic driven?

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Ugly as can be, but I'm sure it has a great personality.

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Honestly, there's no innovation in the above deck layout. In fact, it looks like a 5 year old layout job. Exposed above decks jib tracks? No obvious deck recessed staysail furler? Stantions that project beyond the sheer line and make the boat ineleibigle for certain categories of OSR races? It genuinely looks like they took the worst parts of a Farr 400 and dropped them on a new boat.

 

 

Those primary winches are EXTREMELY agricultural for the job they're doing. Compared to a Carkeek 40 or Botin 40/44 those winches stick out like a sore thumb. Metal, two speed, pro-Sumer pieces of garbage that are three inches taller and 4 pounds heavier than they need to be. They belong in the pit of a grand soleil 50, not the primaries of a Grand Prix racer. every 40 foot race boat built since 2006 has had three speed carbon primary winches. Those are...not

 

Also, I'm only seeing a single engage/disengage and "overdrive" button on the deck there by the pedestal. Meaning the bikes guy can't select into certain winches? Tha fuck? What, are both winches going to be engaged all the time except when they're not?!

 

The only thing on deck that makes sense is the runner guy getting the keel Controls. He who controls gear shifting should also get the keel. Still undefined which person onboard controls the canard. Is it line or hydraulic driven?

So the boat is designed by Botin, not Farr. The boatyard that built the boat has nothing to do with the fundamental deck design. This thing will never go close to offshore. Its so out there that it will only race in class. Certainly not primarily under handicap rules. This also takes out the need for a staysail as it will mostly see windward leeward racing.

 

Good on you for spending other peoples money but that winch package that you are bagging is well into the 50k USD range. Add any fancy shit like that and the price will go right through the roof. Also not sure which C40's you have sailed on but none have driven runner winches (not even all 52s have that function) and none have driven main winches either....

 

Curious if you have any idea about what all that shit costs to add to a boat that has PLENTY of expensive bells and whistles. For example. Just adding a standard string drop system from harken is about 12k USD. Driving just one additional main sheet winch is going to set you back an additional 15k USD....

 

In fact if you even had half a clue about what you are talking about you would know that each button engages the relevant primary and the overdrive selection system is now integrated into the pedestal....

 

So yes there is value engineering happening there for a PRODUCTION boat.

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Sweet looking boat. More pictures, please!!

 

Nice tension on the lower lifelines also.

What town-marina/YC is this in?

 

UAE?

 

 

Correct. Dubai Offshore Sailing Club.

As to more piccies - Unfortunately, I have just flown out for 2 weeks of sailing in the BVI. Sitting in JFK enroute to SJU to pick up the boat tomorrow for 2 weeks of unplugged bliss.

 

It looked like the premier guys were getting her rigged to go test sail it. I saw a bunch of new North Sails in a trailer as I was walking down to the dock, so I would expect sea trials will be happening soon. I'll try to get some pics when I get back.

 

I was in the factory over the summer and saw them working on the Melges 40. They were putting a lot of time and effort in on it and I would expect they will turn out their usual excellent quality product. The fit and finish of this one on the water looked immaculate. It will be cool to see it out sailing.

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Honestly, there's no innovation in the above deck layout. In fact, it looks like a 5 year old layout job. Exposed above decks jib tracks? No obvious deck recessed staysail furler? Stantions that project beyond the sheer line and make the boat ineleibigle for certain categories of OSR races? It genuinely looks like they took the worst parts of a Farr 400 and dropped them on a new boat.

Those primary winches are EXTREMELY agricultural for the job they're doing. Compared to a Carkeek 40 or Botin 40/44 those winches stick out like a sore thumb. Metal, two speed, pro-Sumer pieces of garbage that are three inches taller and 4 pounds heavier than they need to be. They belong in the pit of a grand soleil 50, not the primaries of a Grand Prix racer. every 40 foot race boat built since 2006 has had three speed carbon primary winches. Those are...not

Also, I'm only seeing a single engage/disengage and "overdrive" button on the deck there by the pedestal. Meaning the bikes guy can't select into certain winches? Tha fuck? What, are both winches going to be engaged all the time except when they're not?!

The only thing on deck that makes sense is the runner guy getting the keel Controls. He who controls gear shifting should also get the keel. Still undefined which person onboard controls the canard. Is it line or hydraulic driven?

So the boat is designed by Botin, not Farr. The boatyard that built the boat has nothing to do with the fundamental deck design. This thing will never go close to offshore. Its so out there that it will only race in class. Certainly not primarily under handicap rules. This also takes out the need for a staysail as it will mostly see windward leeward racing.

Good on you for spending other peoples money but that winch package that you are bagging is well into the 50k USD range. Add any fancy shit like that and the price will go right through the roof. Also not sure which C40's you have sailed on but none have driven runner winches (not even all 52s have that function) and none have driven main winches either....

Curious if you have any idea about what all that shit costs to add to a boat that has PLENTY of expensive bells and whistles. For example. Just adding a standard string drop system from harken is about 12k USD. Driving just one additional main sheet winch is going to set you back an additional 15k USD....

In fact if you even had half a clue about what you are talking about you would know that each button engages the relevant primary and the overdrive selection system is now integrated into the pedestal....

So yes there is value engineering happening there for a PRODUCTION boat.

To respond to your reassertions in order:

 

Doesn't matter who designed the boat, the yard has a lot of input in the fit and finish of the final product and looking at the finish of this boat it has a lot of the same premier features that came with the Farr 400. Some are good, some are bad. A great example are those little silver metal chafe protectors on the stantions. They look nice, right? Give it one regatta of hard hiking and those things pop out and start sliding up and down the lifeline, all while your cloth lifelines chafe on the exposed carbon. Or the under deck sheet tunnels with the same shiny stainless bits. You haven't lived until one of those has come undone during a Gybe and gotten sucked into a winch.

 

Who says the boat is never going to go offshore? Try telling the guy who picks one of these up second hand that he has to totally redo every lifeline socket if he wants to do a Giraglia cup or a Key West race. Or even a first hand owner who may want to do those events.

 

Staysail? Look at the 52s. They do windward leeward racing almost exclusively as well. But until the wind is up enough that they leave the jib hoisted going downwind, they all use staysails with under deck furlers and furling lines led to the back of the cockpit so that it doesn't take the bowman 10 seconds at every top and bottom mark to tack and untack the staysail and you don't need to move anyone out of the transom to furl it to Gybe.

 

Learn reading comprehension. I didn't say select into runner or mainsheet winches (though certain carkeeks do have the latter option). I mean it appears that there's one button to engage or disengage BOTH PRIMARIES. And while you're correct that the mx pedestal has a slapper for overdrive, that doesn't explain the single solitary red button on the deck off centerline. Perhaps that's for a drop wheel? Even so, that still only leaves one button for primary winch selection and two primary winches.

 

But if it is indeed the other pedestal selection button then that means there's no drop line system and we go back to my point that this is a boat which could have launched in 2011. There isn't a single innovative idea on display anywhere. And if it is indeed cost engineering then Melges may want to roll back their marketing orgasm that this is some kind of speedster that's going to blow by the competition. Because without 3 speed winches, a drop system, integrated staysail hardware, or a serious commitment to weight savings (as evidenced by all the metal hanging out on deck) a proper hpr40 will make up heaps of time on this boat by being able to hoist and drop the kite 3-4 times faster, Gybe 2-3 times faster, and trim more aggressively. And if actual speed isn't a big factor then just think how foolish a melges 40 owner is going to feel when he has to have his bowman up there collecting a kite by hand and dropping parts of it in the water in the same way he'd have to do on a freaking j105 while other boats don't even have a guy forward of the mast and their kites stay bone dry without even sneezing at the water

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Honestly, there's no innovation in the above deck layout. In fact, it looks like a 5 year old layout job. Exposed above decks jib tracks? No obvious deck recessed staysail furler? Stantions that project beyond the sheer line and make the boat ineleibigle for certain categories of OSR races? It genuinely looks like they took the worst parts of a Farr 400 and dropped them on a new boat.

 

 

Those primary winches are EXTREMELY agricultural for the job they're doing. Compared to a Carkeek 40 or Botin 40/44 those winches stick out like a sore thumb. Metal, two speed, pro-Sumer pieces of garbage that are three inches taller and 4 pounds heavier than they need to be. They belong in the pit of a grand soleil 50, not the primaries of a Grand Prix racer. every 40 foot race boat built since 2006 has had three speed carbon primary winches. Those are...not

 

Also, I'm only seeing a single engage/disengage and "overdrive" button on the deck there by the pedestal. Meaning the bikes guy can't select into certain winches? Tha fuck? What, are both winches going to be engaged all the time except when they're not?!

 

The only thing on deck that makes sense is the runner guy getting the keel Controls. He who controls gear shifting should also get the keel. Still undefined which person onboard controls the canard. Is it line or hydraulic driven?

 

 

Haters gotta hate.

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Honestly, there's no innovation in the above deck layout. In fact, it looks like a 5 year old layout job. Exposed above decks jib tracks? No obvious deck recessed staysail furler? Stantions that project beyond the sheer line and make the boat ineleibigle for certain categories of OSR races? It genuinely looks like they took the worst parts of a Farr 400 and dropped them on a new boat.

 

 

Those primary winches are EXTREMELY agricultural for the job they're doing. Compared to a Carkeek 40 or Botin 40/44 those winches stick out like a sore thumb. Metal, two speed, pro-Sumer pieces of garbage that are three inches taller and 4 pounds heavier than they need to be. They belong in the pit of a grand soleil 50, not the primaries of a Grand Prix racer. every 40 foot race boat built since 2006 has had three speed carbon primary winches. Those are...not

 

Also, I'm only seeing a single engage/disengage and "overdrive" button on the deck there by the pedestal. Meaning the bikes guy can't select into certain winches? Tha fuck? What, are both winches going to be engaged all the time except when they're not?!

 

The only thing on deck that makes sense is the runner guy getting the keel Controls. He who controls gear shifting should also get the keel. Still undefined which person onboard controls the canard. Is it line or hydraulic driven?

 

 

they were just going for affordability :)

 

Hay JBSF how about more PIX of the Girl in the 1st PIC :rolleyes:

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What town-marina/YC is this in?

Last Friday in SD (not yesterday) I thought I saw a black 3di fat head main that said "Melges 40" on it.........???.

 

It was going along Harbor Island

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Honestly, there's no innovation in the above deck layout. In fact, it looks like a 5 year old layout job. Exposed above decks jib tracks? No obvious deck recessed staysail furler? Stantions that project beyond the sheer line and make the boat ineleibigle for certain categories of OSR races? It genuinely looks like they took the worst parts of a Farr 400 and dropped them on a new boat.

Those primary winches are EXTREMELY agricultural for the job they're doing. Compared to a Carkeek 40 or Botin 40/44 those winches stick out like a sore thumb. Metal, two speed, pro-Sumer pieces of garbage that are three inches taller and 4 pounds heavier than they need to be. They belong in the pit of a grand soleil 50, not the primaries of a Grand Prix racer. every 40 foot race boat built since 2006 has had three speed carbon primary winches. Those are...not

Also, I'm only seeing a single engage/disengage and "overdrive" button on the deck there by the pedestal. Meaning the bikes guy can't select into certain winches? Tha fuck? What, are both winches going to be engaged all the time except when they're not?!

The only thing on deck that makes sense is the runner guy getting the keel Controls. He who controls gear shifting should also get the keel. Still undefined which person onboard controls the canard. Is it line or hydraulic driven?

So the boat is designed by Botin, not Farr. The boatyard that built the boat has nothing to do with the fundamental deck design. This thing will never go close to offshore. Its so out there that it will only race in class. Certainly not primarily under handicap rules. This also takes out the need for a staysail as it will mostly see windward leeward racing.

Good on you for spending other peoples money but that winch package that you are bagging is well into the 50k USD range. Add any fancy shit like that and the price will go right through the roof. Also not sure which C40's you have sailed on but none have driven runner winches (not even all 52s have that function) and none have driven main winches either....

Curious if you have any idea about what all that shit costs to add to a boat that has PLENTY of expensive bells and whistles. For example. Just adding a standard string drop system from harken is about 12k USD. Driving just one additional main sheet winch is going to set you back an additional 15k USD....

In fact if you even had half a clue about what you are talking about you would know that each button engages the relevant primary and the overdrive selection system is now integrated into the pedestal....

So yes there is value engineering happening there for a PRODUCTION boat.

To respond to your reassertions in order:

 

Doesn't matter who designed the boat, the yard has a lot of input in the fit and finish of the final product and looking at the finish of this boat it has a lot of the same premier features that came with the Farr 400. Some are good, some are bad. A great example are those little silver metal chafe protectors on the stantions. They look nice, right? Give it one regatta of hard hiking and those things pop out and start sliding up and down the lifeline, all while your cloth lifelines chafe on the exposed carbon. Or the under deck sheet tunnels with the same shiny stainless bits. You haven't lived until one of those has come undone during a Gybe and gotten sucked into a winch.

 

Who says the boat is never going to go offshore? Try telling the guy who picks one of these up second hand that he has to totally redo every lifeline socket if he wants to do a Giraglia cup or a Key West race. Or even a first hand owner who may want to do those events.

 

Staysail? Look at the 52s. They do windward leeward racing almost exclusively as well. But until the wind is up enough that they leave the jib hoisted going downwind, they all use staysails with under deck furlers and furling lines led to the back of the cockpit so that it doesn't take the bowman 10 seconds at every top and bottom mark to tack and untack the staysail and you don't need to move anyone out of the transom to furl it to Gybe.

 

Learn reading comprehension. I didn't say select into runner or mainsheet winches (though certain carkeeks do have the latter option). I mean it appears that there's one button to engage or disengage BOTH PRIMARIES. And while you're correct that the mx pedestal has a slapper for overdrive, that doesn't explain the single solitary red button on the deck off centerline. Perhaps that's for a drop wheel? Even so, that still only leaves one button for primary winch selection and two primary winches.

 

But if it is indeed the other pedestal selection button then that means there's no drop line system and we go back to my point that this is a boat which could have launched in 2011. There isn't a single innovative idea on display anywhere. And if it is indeed cost engineering then Melges may want to roll back their marketing orgasm that this is some kind of speedster that's going to blow by the competition. Because without 3 speed winches, a drop system, integrated staysail hardware, or a serious commitment to weight savings (as evidenced by all the metal hanging out on deck) a proper hpr40 will make up heaps of time on this boat by being able to hoist and drop the kite 3-4 times faster, Gybe 2-3 times faster, and trim more aggressively. And if actual speed isn't a big factor then just think how foolish a melges 40 owner is going to feel when he has to have his bowman up there collecting a kite by hand and dropping parts of it in the water in the same way he'd have to do on a freaking j105 while other boats don't even have a guy forward of the mast and their kites stay bone dry without even sneezing at the water

Hahaha you go boy!

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IMG_1716_zpskmqxhz5s.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, and those backstays look a bit under-specced too. All wrong, innit?

 

 

Light wind backstays, they untie the slip knot and just retie when they need to adjust, saves weight .

Ya think we might want to let them finish the boat before we tell them the bow is going to fall off.

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Honestly, there's no innovation in the above deck layout. In fact, it looks like a 5 year old layout job. Exposed above decks jib tracks? No obvious deck recessed staysail furler? Stantions that project beyond the sheer line and make the boat ineleibigle for certain categories of OSR races? It genuinely looks like they took the worst parts of a Farr 400 and dropped them on a new boat.

Those primary winches are EXTREMELY agricultural for the job they're doing. Compared to a Carkeek 40 or Botin 40/44 those winches stick out like a sore thumb. Metal, two speed, pro-Sumer pieces of garbage that are three inches taller and 4 pounds heavier than they need to be. They belong in the pit of a grand soleil 50, not the primaries of a Grand Prix racer. every 40 foot race boat built since 2006 has had three speed carbon primary winches. Those are...not

Also, I'm only seeing a single engage/disengage and "overdrive" button on the deck there by the pedestal. Meaning the bikes guy can't select into certain winches? Tha fuck? What, are both winches going to be engaged all the time except when they're not?!

The only thing on deck that makes sense is the runner guy getting the keel Controls. He who controls gear shifting should also get the keel. Still undefined which person onboard controls the canard. Is it line or hydraulic driven?

 

 

Haters gotta hate.

Lovers gotta love... What's your girlfriend up to tonight?
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I guess I'm the only one wondering what the hell is the point of a 40 foot day racer that's fucked unless it generates class racing, which it won't. OK, I've leave the rest of you to your drooling.

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I guess I'm the only one wondering what the hell is the point of a 40 foot day racer that's fucked unless it generates class racing, which it won't. OK, I've leave the rest of you to your drooling.

Someone should recycle Solos rant on the then-newest hot ride in town....

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Honestly, there's no innovation in the above deck layout. In fact, it looks like a 5 year old layout job. Exposed above decks jib tracks? No obvious deck recessed staysail furler? Stantions that project beyond the sheer line and make the boat ineleibigle for certain categories of OSR races? It genuinely looks like they took the worst parts of a Farr 400 and dropped them on a new boat.

Those primary winches are EXTREMELY agricultural for the job they're doing. Compared to a Carkeek 40 or Botin 40/44 those winches stick out like a sore thumb. Metal, two speed, pro-Sumer pieces of garbage that are three inches taller and 4 pounds heavier than they need to be. They belong in the pit of a grand soleil 50, not the primaries of a Grand Prix racer. every 40 foot race boat built since 2006 has had three speed carbon primary winches. Those are...not

Also, I'm only seeing a single engage/disengage and "overdrive" button on the deck there by the pedestal. Meaning the bikes guy can't select into certain winches? Tha fuck? What, are both winches going to be engaged all the time except when they're not?!

The only thing on deck that makes sense is the runner guy getting the keel Controls. He who controls gear shifting should also get the keel. Still undefined which person onboard controls the canard. Is it line or hydraulic driven?

So the boat is designed by Botin, not Farr. The boatyard that built the boat has nothing to do with the fundamental deck design. This thing will never go close to offshore. Its so out there that it will only race in class. Certainly not primarily under handicap rules. This also takes out the need for a staysail as it will mostly see windward leeward racing.

Good on you for spending other peoples money but that winch package that you are bagging is well into the 50k USD range. Add any fancy shit like that and the price will go right through the roof. Also not sure which C40's you have sailed on but none have driven runner winches (not even all 52s have that function) and none have driven main winches either....

Curious if you have any idea about what all that shit costs to add to a boat that has PLENTY of expensive bells and whistles. For example. Just adding a standard string drop system from harken is about 12k USD. Driving just one additional main sheet winch is going to set you back an additional 15k USD....

In fact if you even had half a clue about what you are talking about you would know that each button engages the relevant primary and the overdrive selection system is now integrated into the pedestal....

So yes there is value engineering happening there for a PRODUCTION boat.

To respond to your reassertions in order:

Doesn't matter who designed the boat, the yard has a lot of input in the fit and finish of the final product and looking at the finish of this boat it has a lot of the same premier features that came with the Farr 400. Some are good, some are bad. A great example are those little silver metal chafe protectors on the stantions. They look nice, right? Give it one regatta of hard hiking and those things pop out and start sliding up and down the lifeline, all while your cloth lifelines chafe on the exposed carbon. Or the under deck sheet tunnels with the same shiny stainless bits. You haven't lived until one of those has come undone during a Gybe and gotten sucked into a winch.

Who says the boat is never going to go offshore? Try telling the guy who picks one of these up second hand that he has to totally redo every lifeline socket if he wants to do a Giraglia cup or a Key West race. Or even a first hand owner who may want to do those events.

Staysail? Look at the 52s. They do windward leeward racing almost exclusively as well. But until the wind is up enough that they leave the jib hoisted going downwind, they all use staysails with under deck furlers and furling lines led to the back of the cockpit so that it doesn't take the bowman 10 seconds at every top and bottom mark to tack and untack the staysail and you don't need to move anyone out of the transom to furl it to Gybe.

Learn reading comprehension. I didn't say select into runner or mainsheet winches (though certain carkeeks do have the latter option). I mean it appears that there's one button to engage or disengage BOTH PRIMARIES. And while you're correct that the mx pedestal has a slapper for overdrive, that doesn't explain the single solitary red button on the deck off centerline. Perhaps that's for a drop wheel? Even so, that still only leaves one button for primary winch selection and two primary winches.

But if it is indeed the other pedestal selection button then that means there's no drop line system and we go back to my point that this is a boat which could have launched in 2011. There isn't a single innovative idea on display anywhere. And if it is indeed cost engineering then Melges may want to roll back their marketing orgasm that this is some kind of speedster that's going to blow by the competition. Because without 3 speed winches, a drop system, integrated staysail hardware, or a serious commitment to weight savings (as evidenced by all the metal hanging out on deck) a proper hpr40 will make up heaps of time on this boat by being able to hoist and drop the kite 3-4 times faster, Gybe 2-3 times faster, and trim more aggressively. And if actual speed isn't a big factor then just think how foolish a melges 40 owner is going to feel when he has to have his bowman up there collecting a kite by hand and dropping parts of it in the water in the same way he'd have to do on a freaking j105 while other boats don't even have a guy forward of the mast and their kites stay bone dry without even sneezing at the water

I won't get in to details but here is the deal. Clearly you have an axe to grind with premier about the Farr 400. Yes it was a dog and yes there where plenty of issues with the boat but the yard has come a long way since then as evidenced by many boats that they have built since then.

 

The boat has 2 buttons on deck. Look closely. The boat also has a string drop wheel. All the winches are 3 speed winches and as I said before there is an overdrive system in the MX pedestal

 

Its a one design class first and foremost so the staysail was dispensed with as were the secondary owner thoughts. Curious what metal hanging out on deck you are talking about other than that which is necessary. Alloy ferrules in the nostrils and stanchions and what else?

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I guess I'm the only one wondering what the hell is the point of a 40 foot day racer that's fucked unless it generates class racing, which it won't. OK, I've leave the rest of you to your drooling.

Same point as a 32 foot day racer?

A boat that was raced hard, put away wet, and occasionally broken/replaced?

A good number of those owners spend eye-opening money and travel remarkable distances just for the class racing.

Do you think those potential buyers were consulted?

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Same point as a 32 foot day racer?

 

There's a hell of a difference in the price tag and running cost for a 32-footer versus a 40-footer and consequently in the size of the market.

 

If this actually develops into a real OD fleet, which none of its recent competitors has done, then you can come back and tell me you were right and I was wrong.

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What are the 2 cams on the pedestal base for?

Looks like main trav.

Would think that will be routed to the patch in the non slip ahead of the tiller. Placed for the main trimmer - between mainsheet winches. Could the cam cleats be related to the overdrive/string drop system?

 

I'm wondering about the second swivel cam cleat on the cockpit sole, forward the traveller. One for the vang. The second for? Deflectors?

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Same point as a 32 foot day racer?

There's a hell of a difference in the price tag and running cost for a 32-footer versus a 40-footer and consequently in the size of the market.

 

If this actually develops into a real OD fleet, which none of its recent competitors has done, then you can come back and tell me you were right and I was wrong.

Agree with your thoughts on the price of admission and ongoing expenses.

The M32 fleet tapped into a surprising number of big-spenders who may not think twice about upping the game.

To commit to this boat without a sense of that market would seem foolhardy.

We shall see

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Same point as a 32 foot day racer?

 

There's a hell of a difference in the price tag and running cost for a 32-footer versus a 40-footer and consequently in the size of the market.

 

If this actually develops into a real OD fleet, which none of its recent competitors has done, then you can come back and tell me you were right and I was wrong.

 

 

 

Biggest targets for this one are owners of Melges 32, RC44, Farr40, TP52 and Michetti knows them all. That's a decent sized pool of potential owners for a boat with a 5-order headstart. That said, times are a changin' and 800k might be a lot these days for a boat that won't even do 15 knots upwind...

 

Then again, a new TP costs over 2 million bucks and may be slower around the track than this thing, so there's clearly people out there who have no problem spending the cash to get some fun monohull racing.

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What are the 2 cams on the pedestal base for?

Looks like main trav.

Would think that will be routed to the patch in the non slip ahead of the tiller. Placed for the main trimmer - between mainsheet winches. Could the cam cleats be related to the overdrive/string drop system?

 

I'm wondering about the second swivel cam cleat on the cockpit sole, forward the traveller. One for the vang. The second for? Deflectors?

 

Bring me up to speed please. What are deflectors?

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What are the 2 cams on the pedestal base for?

Looks like main trav.

Would think that will be routed to the patch in the non slip ahead of the tiller. Placed for the main trimmer - between mainsheet winches. Could the cam cleats be related to the overdrive/string drop system?

I'm wondering about the second swivel cam cleat on the cockpit sole, forward the traveller. One for the vang. The second for? Deflectors?

Correct on all counts.

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Same point as a 32 foot day racer?

There's a hell of a difference in the price tag and running cost for a 32-footer versus a 40-footer and consequently in the size of the market.

 

If this actually develops into a real OD fleet, which none of its recent competitors has done, then you can come back and tell me you were right and I was wrong.

 

Biggest targets for this one are owners of Melges 32, RC44, Farr40, TP52 and Michetti knows them all. That's a decent sized pool of potential owners for a boat with a 5-order headstart. That said, times are a changin' and 800k might be a lot these days for a boat that won't even do 15 knots upwind...

 

Then again, a new TP costs over 2 million bucks and may be slower around the track than this thing, so there's clearly people out there who have no problem spending the cash to get some fun monohull racing.

So your options are: sail a 10+ year old boat or get a 2 million buck TP52

 

Don't forget the much smaller crew requirement than a 52 this thing will have.

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Same point as a 32 foot day racer?

There's a hell of a difference in the price tag and running cost for a 32-footer versus a 40-footer and consequently in the size of the market.

 

If this actually develops into a real OD fleet, which none of its recent competitors has done, then you can come back and tell me you were right and I was wrong.

 

Biggest targets for this one are owners of Melges 32, RC44, Farr40, TP52 and Michetti knows them all. That's a decent sized pool of potential owners for a boat with a 5-order headstart. That said, times are a changin' and 800k might be a lot these days for a boat that won't even do 15 knots upwind...

 

Then again, a new TP costs over 2 million bucks and may be slower around the track than this thing, so there's clearly people out there who have no problem spending the cash to get some fun monohull racing.

So your options are: sail a 10+ year old boat or get a 2 million buck TP52

 

Don't forget the much smaller crew requirement than a 52 this thing will have.

 

 

 

In the world of monohull grand prix racing with a worldwide footprint, I think that's about right. Amazingly over 100 TP52s have been built and their continued performance under various handicap rules has helped keep the class- and the name - on people's minds while everything else fades away. The obvious replacement for most of the classes is now multihulls, which take less than half the crew and go twice as quickly - just look at the price points: At 250k for a M32, 325k for the new NYYC foiling 30-foot trimaran, 420k for a GC32, and a million and change for a MOD70 that will crush records easier than Donald Trump crushes pussy, the decision just keeps getting easier thought he TP is the last real holdout.

 

Federico is taking a big gamble on a canting OD boat and he could only get people excited by promising performance from a 40-footer that exceeds anything the market has seen thus far. i have no idea if it will succeed but am angling for a real test sail soon so I can find out its chances. I might fly to Dubai next week...

 

 

 

 

RC44 continues to get 6-10 boats at big events. Otherwise, not a factor.

Melges 32, 10-20 boats at big events, otherwise, not a factor. will revive at some point thanks to 200+ boats out there and a great sailing platform

Farr 40 mostly dead. 4-10 boats at big events. Has had all the revivals it will have.

Farr/Mumm 30 see above. 4-12 boats at events.

C&C30 more of a club/US boat. 5-15 boats at events. One crew described them as 'the J/boat for those bored of j/boats'. No international grand prix level action yet.

McConaghy 38 - 8 boats in NSW. stillborn outside Oz

Farr 280 - 2-5 boats it Annapolis and nearby events. mostly DOA thanks to a high price point

Farr 400 - DOA thanks to a horribly ugly look and early build issues

Carkeek 40 - killed by benj's overspending, wide variety in early boats. Benj moved to a TP52. Decision moved to the Camper VO70.

Ker 40/42/etc - suborned by Fast 40 handicap rule and the fact that brits seem to hate one design over a certain size. Lots of these things around, not a lot of one-design.

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Ker 40/42/etc - suborned by Fast 40 handicap rule and the fact that brits seem to hate one design over a certain size.

Brits? I don't think it's Brits. The seriously wealthy don't much like OD. Call it the desire and the means for a degree of self-expression. Or call it the desire for an unfair advantage.

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Same point as a 32 foot day racer?

There's a hell of a difference in the price tag and running cost for a 32-footer versus a 40-footer and consequently in the size of the market.

 

If this actually develops into a real OD fleet, which none of its recent competitors has done, then you can come back and tell me you were right and I was wrong.

 

Biggest targets for this one are owners of Melges 32, RC44, Farr40, TP52 and Michetti knows them all. That's a decent sized pool of potential owners for a boat with a 5-order headstart. That said, times are a changin' and 800k might be a lot these days for a boat that won't even do 15 knots upwind...

 

Then again, a new TP costs over 2 million bucks and may be slower around the track than this thing, so there's clearly people out there who have no problem spending the cash to get some fun monohull racing.

So your options are: sail a 10+ year old boat or get a 2 million buck TP52

 

Don't forget the much smaller crew requirement than a 52 this thing will have.

 

 

 

In the world of monohull grand prix racing with a worldwide footprint, I think that's about right. Amazingly over 100 TP52s have been built and their continued performance under various handicap rules has helped keep the class- and the name - on people's minds while everything else fades away. The obvious replacement for most of the classes is now multihulls, which take less than half the crew and go twice as quickly - just look at the price points: At 250k for a M32, 325k for the new NYYC foiling 30-foot trimaran, 420k for a GC32, and a million and change for a MOD70 that will crush records easier than Donald Trump crushes pussy, the decision just keeps getting easier thought he TP is the last real holdout.

 

Federico is taking a big gamble on a canting OD boat and he could only get people excited by promising performance from a 40-footer that exceeds anything the market has seen thus far. i have no idea if it will succeed but am angling for a real test sail soon so I can find out its chances. I might fly to Dubai next week...

 

 

 

 

RC44 continues to get 6-10 boats at big events. Otherwise, not a factor.

Melges 32, 10-20 boats at big events, otherwise, not a factor. will revive at some point thanks to 200+ boats out there and a great sailing platform

Farr 40 mostly dead. 4-10 boats at big events. Has had all the revivals it will have.

Farr/Mumm 30 see above. 4-12 boats at events.

C&C30 more of a club/US boat. 5-15 boats at events. One crew described them as 'the J/boat for those bored of j/boats'. No international grand prix level action yet.

McConaghy 38 - 8 boats in NSW. stillborn outside Oz

Farr 280 - 2-5 boats it Annapolis and nearby events. mostly DOA thanks to a high price point

Farr 400 - DOA thanks to a horribly ugly look and early build issues

Carkeek 40 - killed by benj's overspending, wide variety in early boats. Benj moved to a TP52. Decision moved to the Camper VO70.

Ker 40/42/etc - suborned by Fast 40 handicap rule and the fact that brits seem to hate one design over a certain size. Lots of these things around, not a lot of one-design.

 

 

Missed one - Shaw 40 (12) ... similar size, canter, hot shower and room for a party inside ... one-off though (so far)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4ixyAeVHmg

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Same point as a 32 foot day racer?

There's a hell of a difference in the price tag and running cost for a 32-footer versus a 40-footer and consequently in the size of the market.

 

If this actually develops into a real OD fleet, which none of its recent competitors has done, then you can come back and tell me you were right and I was wrong.

 

Biggest targets for this one are owners of Melges 32, RC44, Farr40, TP52 and Michetti knows them all. That's a decent sized pool of potential owners for a boat with a 5-order headstart. That said, times are a changin' and 800k might be a lot these days for a boat that won't even do 15 knots upwind...

 

Then again, a new TP costs over 2 million bucks and may be slower around the track than this thing, so there's clearly people out there who have no problem spending the cash to get some fun monohull racing.

So your options are: sail a 10+ year old boat or get a 2 million buck TP52

 

Don't forget the much smaller crew requirement than a 52 this thing will have.

 

 

 

In the world of monohull grand prix racing with a worldwide footprint, I think that's about right. Amazingly over 100 TP52s have been built and their continued performance under various handicap rules has helped keep the class- and the name - on people's minds while everything else fades away. The obvious replacement for most of the classes is now multihulls, which take less than half the crew and go twice as quickly - just look at the price points: At 250k for a M32, 325k for the new NYYC foiling 30-foot trimaran, 420k for a GC32, and a million and change for a MOD70 that will crush records easier than Donald Trump crushes pussy, the decision just keeps getting easier thought he TP is the last real holdout.

 

Federico is taking a big gamble on a canting OD boat and he could only get people excited by promising performance from a 40-footer that exceeds anything the market has seen thus far. i have no idea if it will succeed but am angling for a real test sail soon so I can find out its chances. I might fly to Dubai next week...

 

 

 

 

RC44 continues to get 6-10 boats at big events. Otherwise, not a factor.

Melges 32, 10-20 boats at big events, otherwise, not a factor. will revive at some point thanks to 200+ boats out there and a great sailing platform

Farr 40 mostly dead. 4-10 boats at big events. Has had all the revivals it will have.

Farr/Mumm 30 see above. 4-12 boats at events.

C&C30 more of a club/US boat. 5-15 boats at events. One crew described them as 'the J/boat for those bored of j/boats'. No international grand prix level action yet.

McConaghy 38 - 8 boats in NSW. stillborn outside Oz

Farr 280 - 2-5 boats it Annapolis and nearby events. mostly DOA thanks to a high price point

Farr 400 - DOA thanks to a horribly ugly look and early build issues

Carkeek 40 - killed by benj's overspending, wide variety in early boats. Benj moved to a TP52. Decision moved to the Camper VO70.

Ker 40/42/etc - suborned by Fast 40 handicap rule and the fact that brits seem to hate one design over a certain size. Lots of these things around, not a lot of one-design.

 

The question will be just how many of the above owners are willing to take the hit from their current small/struggling/failing/failed class and drop $$$$$$$ on the Melges 40. Personally I hope it is a bunch of people, watching, racing, etc in 4-10 boat events sucks IMO... would love to see this work.

 

Regardless I'm excitedly awaiting footage of her sailing and eventually going around the course

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The TP52's are managed and funded by the owners, as far as the Super Series, and appear to fit things to their likes. (design rule updates, venues, etc.) After appearing that they would fade away after Audi pulled-out the class has remained strong, the old boats are doing well around the world, and some are even close competitive-wise with mods, capable of winning a race or two along the way. Was it eight or nine new boats built last year for the design update? Pretty strong for a commitment of 2mil or so.

 

It is an interesting enough boat without being to 'gadgety' with canting keels, hydraulics, etc. Like anything, as long as they have fun with them they will last. When that is over, they will go the way of the rest of them, OD48's, IOR 50's, etc.

 

This 40 looks cool and I hope it takes off, would be good to see it in KW with the 52's. maybe Miami too.

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Shitload harder to drag a 40'er around the country on the back of a truck

Supposedly the plan is a fully managed traveling circus just like Porsche Cup. No harder for the target owners to write a big check than a smaller one.

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Ker 40/42/etc - suborned by Fast 40 handicap rule and the fact that brits seem to hate one design over a certain size.

Brits? I don't think it's Brits. The seriously wealthy don't much like OD. Call it the desire and the means for a degree of self-expression. Or call it the desire for an unfair advantage.

Pretty sure the 52's race one design. And most people would refer to the owners as Seriously Wealthy.

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The TP52's are managed and funded by the owners, as far as the Super Series, and appear to fit things to their likes. (design rule updates, venues, etc.) After appearing that they would fade away after Audi pulled-out the class has remained strong, the old boats are doing well around the world, and some are even close competitive-wise with mods, capable of winning a race or two along the way. Was it eight or nine new boats built last year for the design update? Pretty strong for a commitment of 2mil or so.

 

It is an interesting enough boat without being to 'gadgety' with canting keels, hydraulics, etc. Like anything, as long as they have fun with them they will last. When that is over, they will go the way of the rest of them, OD48's, IOR 50's, etc.

 

This 40 looks cool and I hope it takes off, would be good to see it in KW with the 52's. maybe Miami too.

Is it even possible to get one from Dubai to Ft. Lauderdale in time to make KWRW?

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The TP52's are managed and funded by the owners, as far as the Super Series, and appear to fit things to their likes. (design rule updates, venues, etc.) After appearing that they would fade away after Audi pulled-out the class has remained strong, the old boats are doing well around the world, and some are even close competitive-wise with mods, capable of winning a race or two along the way. Was it eight or nine new boats built last year for the design update? Pretty strong for a commitment of 2mil or so.

 

It is an interesting enough boat without being to 'gadgety' with canting keels, hydraulics, etc. Like anything, as long as they have fun with them they will last. When that is over, they will go the way of the rest of them, OD48's, IOR 50's, etc.

 

This 40 looks cool and I hope it takes off, would be good to see it in KW with the 52's. maybe Miami too.

Is it even possible to get one from Dubai to Ft. Lauderdale in time to make KWRW?

 

Pop it on a plane, it'll be there by lunch tomorrow. 2 - 3 days to commission. How deep are your pockets?

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looks like a fun boat.

 

If the point is to just simply to go as fast as possible per dollar spent then a multihull is probably the way to go.

 

but maybe if the chosen multihull goes so fast it spreads the fleet out too much, which somewhat reduces tactics and boat handling as aspects of the competition which OD people seem to expect and enjoy.

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The TP52's are managed and funded by the owners, as far as the Super Series, and appear to fit things to their likes. (design rule updates, venues, etc.) After appearing that they would fade away after Audi pulled-out the class has remained strong, the old boats are doing well around the world, and some are even close competitive-wise with mods, capable of winning a race or two along the way. Was it eight or nine new boats built last year for the design update? Pretty strong for a commitment of 2mil or so.

 

It is an interesting enough boat without being to 'gadgety' with canting keels, hydraulics, etc. Like anything, as long as they have fun with them they will last. When that is over, they will go the way of the rest of them, OD48's, IOR 50's, etc.

 

This 40 looks cool and I hope it takes off, would be good to see it in KW with the 52's. maybe Miami too.

Is it even possible to get one from Dubai to Ft. Lauderdale in time to make KWRW?

 

 

I am thinking ahead a year or so...

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Ker 40/42/etc - suborned by Fast 40 handicap rule and the fact that brits seem to hate one design over a certain size.

Brits? I don't think it's Brits. The seriously wealthy don't much like OD. Call it the desire and the means for a degree of self-expression. Or call it the desire for an unfair advantage.

 

Pretty sure the 52's race one design. And most people would refer to the owners as Seriously Wealthy.

 

I think you are confusing one design with class racing. Not the same. What the TP52 class says about itself does not describe a one-design. http://www.52superseries.com/the-52-super-series/tp52-class/

 

"The tight controls imposed by the design rules ‘box’ allow sufficient freedom for the different designers to express their ideas, yet the fleet has remained very closely matched."

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100 tp52s? Really idk anout that. The tp52s have done really well in various handicap rules.

Will this do 9 knots upwind? If it can, it is a fucking machine. I cant wait to see one ripping downhill though.

Projected numbers

 

post-419-0-01325100-1480313001_thumb.png

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Honestly, there's no innovation in the above deck layout. In fact, it looks like a 5 year old layout job. Exposed above decks jib tracks? No obvious deck recessed staysail furler? Stantions that project beyond the sheer line and make the boat ineleibigle for certain categories of OSR races? It genuinely looks like they took the worst parts of a Farr 400 and dropped them on a new boat.

Those primary winches are EXTREMELY agricultural for the job they're doing. Compared to a Carkeek 40 or Botin 40/44 those winches stick out like a sore thumb. Metal, two speed, pro-Sumer pieces of garbage that are three inches taller and 4 pounds heavier than they need to be. They belong in the pit of a grand soleil 50, not the primaries of a Grand Prix racer. every 40 foot race boat built since 2006 has had three speed carbon primary winches. Those are...not

Also, I'm only seeing a single engage/disengage and "overdrive" button on the deck there by the pedestal. Meaning the bikes guy can't select into certain winches? Tha fuck? What, are both winches going to be engaged all the time except when they're not?!

The only thing on deck that makes sense is the runner guy getting the keel Controls. He who controls gear shifting should also get the keel. Still undefined which person onboard controls the canard. Is it line or hydraulic driven?

So the boat is designed by Botin, not Farr. The boatyard that built the boat has nothing to do with the fundamental deck design. This thing will never go close to offshore. Its so out there that it will only race in class. Certainly not primarily under handicap rules. This also takes out the need for a staysail as it will mostly see windward leeward racing.

Good on you for spending other peoples money but that winch package that you are bagging is well into the 50k USD range. Add any fancy shit like that and the price will go right through the roof. Also not sure which C40's you have sailed on but none have driven runner winches (not even all 52s have that function) and none have driven main winches either....

Curious if you have any idea about what all that shit costs to add to a boat that has PLENTY of expensive bells and whistles. For example. Just adding a standard string drop system from harken is about 12k USD. Driving just one additional main sheet winch is going to set you back an additional 15k USD....

In fact if you even had half a clue about what you are talking about you would know that each button engages the relevant primary and the overdrive selection system is now integrated into the pedestal....

So yes there is value engineering happening there for a PRODUCTION boat.

To respond to your reassertions in order:

Doesn't matter who designed the boat, the yard has a lot of input in the fit and finish of the final product and looking at the finish of this boat it has a lot of the same premier features that came with the Farr 400. Some are good, some are bad. A great example are those little silver metal chafe protectors on the stantions. They look nice, right? Give it one regatta of hard hiking and those things pop out and start sliding up and down the lifeline, all while your cloth lifelines chafe on the exposed carbon. Or the under deck sheet tunnels with the same shiny stainless bits. You haven't lived until one of those has come undone during a Gybe and gotten sucked into a winch.

Who says the boat is never going to go offshore? Try telling the guy who picks one of these up second hand that he has to totally redo every lifeline socket if he wants to do a Giraglia cup or a Key West race. Or even a first hand owner who may want to do those events.

Staysail? Look at the 52s. They do windward leeward racing almost exclusively as well. But until the wind is up enough that they leave the jib hoisted going downwind, they all use staysails with under deck furlers and furling lines led to the back of the cockpit so that it doesn't take the bowman 10 seconds at every top and bottom mark to tack and untack the staysail and you don't need to move anyone out of the transom to furl it to Gybe.

Learn reading comprehension. I didn't say select into runner or mainsheet winches (though certain carkeeks do have the latter option). I mean it appears that there's one button to engage or disengage BOTH PRIMARIES. And while you're correct that the mx pedestal has a slapper for overdrive, that doesn't explain the single solitary red button on the deck off centerline. Perhaps that's for a drop wheel? Even so, that still only leaves one button for primary winch selection and two primary winches.

But if it is indeed the other pedestal selection button then that means there's no drop line system and we go back to my point that this is a boat which could have launched in 2011. There isn't a single innovative idea on display anywhere. And if it is indeed cost engineering then Melges may want to roll back their marketing orgasm that this is some kind of speedster that's going to blow by the competition. Because without 3 speed winches, a drop system, integrated staysail hardware, or a serious commitment to weight savings (as evidenced by all the metal hanging out on deck) a proper hpr40 will make up heaps of time on this boat by being able to hoist and drop the kite 3-4 times faster, Gybe 2-3 times faster, and trim more aggressively. And if actual speed isn't a big factor then just think how foolish a melges 40 owner is going to feel when he has to have his bowman up there collecting a kite by hand and dropping parts of it in the water in the same way he'd have to do on a freaking j105 while other boats don't even have a guy forward of the mast and their kites stay bone dry without even sneezing at the water

I won't get in to details but here is the deal. Clearly you have an axe to grind with premier about the Farr 400. Yes it was a dog and yes there where plenty of issues with the boat but the yard has come a long way since then as evidenced by many boats that they have built since then.

 

The boat has 2 buttons on deck. Look closely. The boat also has a string drop wheel. All the winches are 3 speed winches and as I said before there is an overdrive system in the MX pedestal

 

Its a one design class first and foremost so the staysail was dispensed with as were the secondary owner thoughts. Curious what metal hanging out on deck you are talking about other than that which is necessary. Alloy ferrules in the nostrils and stanchions and what else?

 

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/56e1bfb82eeb81745cb09089/t/573b38d0b6aa6009a299cef4/1463498960759/m40-specifications-v3.pdf

 

according to that, only two of the winches are 3 speed and five are 2 speed

 

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/56e1bfb82eeb81745cb09089/t/57e96c46e3df2874d0bf0121/1474915408797/2016-m40presentation-v3.pdf

 

interesting stuff starting on page 10 in regards to class and boat management in case ya haven't read it yet

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Honestly, there's no innovation in the above deck layout. In fact, it looks like a 5 year old layout job. Exposed above decks jib tracks? No obvious deck recessed staysail furler? Stantions that project beyond the sheer line and make the boat ineleibigle for certain categories of OSR races? It genuinely looks like they took the worst parts of a Farr 400 and dropped them on a new boat.

 

 

Those primary winches are EXTREMELY agricultural for the job they're doing. Compared to a Carkeek 40 or Botin 40/44 those winches stick out like a sore thumb. Metal, two speed, pro-Sumer pieces of garbage that are three inches taller and 4 pounds heavier than they need to be. They belong in the pit of a grand soleil 50, not the primaries of a Grand Prix racer. every 40 foot race boat built since 2006 has had three speed carbon primary winches. Those are...not

 

Also, I'm only seeing a single engage/disengage and "overdrive" button on the deck there by the pedestal. Meaning the bikes guy can't select into certain winches? Tha fuck? What, are both winches going to be engaged all the time except when they're not?!

 

The only thing on deck that makes sense is the runner guy getting the keel Controls. He who controls gear shifting should also get the keel. Still undefined which person onboard controls the canard. Is it line or hydraulic driven?

So the boat is designed by Botin, not Farr. The boatyard that built the boat has nothing to do with the fundamental deck design. This thing will never go close to offshore. Its so out there that it will only race in class. Certainly not primarily under handicap rules. This also takes out the need for a staysail as it will mostly see windward leeward racing.

 

Good on you for spending other peoples money but that winch package that you are bagging is well into the 50k USD range. Add any fancy shit like that and the price will go right through the roof. Also not sure which C40's you have sailed on but none have driven runner winches (not even all 52s have that function) and none have driven main winches either....

 

Curious if you have any idea about what all that shit costs to add to a boat that has PLENTY of expensive bells and whistles. For example. Just adding a standard string drop system from harken is about 12k USD. Driving just one additional main sheet winch is going to set you back an additional 15k USD....

 

In fact if you even had half a clue about what you are talking about you would know that each button engages the relevant primary and the overdrive selection system is now integrated into the pedestal....

 

So yes there is value engineering happening there for a PRODUCTION boat.

 

+1, nothing to add.

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, you forgot about the canting keel, I don't know of any other W/L racer which has one.

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Ker 40/42/etc - suborned by Fast 40 handicap rule and the fact that brits seem to hate one design over a certain size.

Brits? I don't think it's Brits. The seriously wealthy don't much like OD. Call it the desire and the means for a degree of self-expression. Or call it the desire for an unfair advantage.

Pretty sure the 52's race one design. And most people would refer to the owners as Seriously Wealthy.

I think you are confusing one design with class racing. Not the same. What the TP52 class says about itself does not describe a one-design. http://www.52superseries.com/the-52-super-series/tp52-class/

 

"The tight controls imposed by the design rules box allow sufficient freedom for the different designers to express their ideas, yet the fleet has remained very closely matched."

Yes, I know it's a box rule, but unlike the Fast 40's, they race level like a one design fleet. This means that you can design an unfair advantage that might help in handicap racing, but the 52 Super Series does not use handicap.

 

You may try and call the Fast 40's a box rule, but that would be one hell of a big box.

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Honestly, there's no innovation in the above deck layout. In fact, it looks like a 5 year old layout job. Exposed above decks jib tracks? No obvious deck recessed staysail furler? Stantions that project beyond the sheer line and make the boat ineleibigle for certain categories of OSR races? It genuinely looks like they took the worst parts of a Farr 400 and dropped them on a new boat.

 

 

Those primary winches are EXTREMELY agricultural for the job they're doing. Compared to a Carkeek 40 or Botin 40/44 those winches stick out like a sore thumb. Metal, two speed, pro-Sumer pieces of garbage that are three inches taller and 4 pounds heavier than they need to be. They belong in the pit of a grand soleil 50, not the primaries of a Grand Prix racer. every 40 foot race boat built since 2006 has had three speed carbon primary winches. Those are...not

 

Also, I'm only seeing a single engage/disengage and "overdrive" button on the deck there by the pedestal. Meaning the bikes guy can't select into certain winches? Tha fuck? What, are both winches going to be engaged all the time except when they're not?!

 

The only thing on deck that makes sense is the runner guy getting the keel Controls. He who controls gear shifting should also get the keel. Still undefined which person onboard controls the canard. Is it line or hydraulic driven?

So the boat is designed by Botin, not Farr. The boatyard that built the boat has nothing to do with the fundamental deck design. This thing will never go close to offshore. Its so out there that it will only race in class. Certainly not primarily under handicap rules. This also takes out the need for a staysail as it will mostly see windward leeward racing.

 

Good on you for spending other peoples money but that winch package that you are bagging is well into the 50k USD range. Add any fancy shit like that and the price will go right through the roof. Also not sure which C40's you have sailed on but none have driven runner winches (not even all 52s have that function) and none have driven main winches either....

 

Curious if you have any idea about what all that shit costs to add to a boat that has PLENTY of expensive bells and whistles. For example. Just adding a standard string drop system from harken is about 12k USD. Driving just one additional main sheet winch is going to set you back an additional 15k USD....

 

In fact if you even had half a clue about what you are talking about you would know that each button engages the relevant primary and the overdrive selection system is now integrated into the pedestal....

 

So yes there is value engineering happening there for a PRODUCTION boat.

 

+1, nothing to add.

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, you forgot about the canting keel, I don't know of any other W/L racer which has one.

 

 

Why do people keep pretending this was a boat designed and built for the masses? The Melges 40 from inception is for a well healed 10-15 owners who don't give a shit about resale, comparative speeds, or (mild) budget constraints.

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Honestly, there's no innovation in the above deck layout. In fact, it looks like a 5 year old layout job. Exposed above decks jib tracks? No obvious deck recessed staysail furler? Stantions that project beyond the sheer line and make the boat ineleibigle for certain categories of OSR races? It genuinely looks like they took the worst parts of a Farr 400 and dropped them on a new boat.

 

 

Those primary winches are EXTREMELY agricultural for the job they're doing. Compared to a Carkeek 40 or Botin 40/44 those winches stick out like a sore thumb. Metal, two speed, pro-Sumer pieces of garbage that are three inches taller and 4 pounds heavier than they need to be. They belong in the pit of a grand soleil 50, not the primaries of a Grand Prix racer. every 40 foot race boat built since 2006 has had three speed carbon primary winches. Those are...not

 

Also, I'm only seeing a single engage/disengage and "overdrive" button on the deck there by the pedestal. Meaning the bikes guy can't select into certain winches? Tha fuck? What, are both winches going to be engaged all the time except when they're not?!

 

The only thing on deck that makes sense is the runner guy getting the keel Controls. He who controls gear shifting should also get the keel. Still undefined which person onboard controls the canard. Is it line or hydraulic driven?

So the boat is designed by Botin, not Farr. The boatyard that built the boat has nothing to do with the fundamental deck design. This thing will never go close to offshore. Its so out there that it will only race in class. Certainly not primarily under handicap rules. This also takes out the need for a staysail as it will mostly see windward leeward racing.

 

Good on you for spending other peoples money but that winch package that you are bagging is well into the 50k USD range. Add any fancy shit like that and the price will go right through the roof. Also not sure which C40's you have sailed on but none have driven runner winches (not even all 52s have that function) and none have driven main winches either....

 

Curious if you have any idea about what all that shit costs to add to a boat that has PLENTY of expensive bells and whistles. For example. Just adding a standard string drop system from harken is about 12k USD. Driving just one additional main sheet winch is going to set you back an additional 15k USD....

 

In fact if you even had half a clue about what you are talking about you would know that each button engages the relevant primary and the overdrive selection system is now integrated into the pedestal....

 

So yes there is value engineering happening there for a PRODUCTION boat.

 

+1, nothing to add.

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, you forgot about the canting keel, I don't know of any other W/L racer which has one.

 

 

Why do people keep pretending this was a boat designed and built for the masses? The Melges 40 from inception is for a well healed 10-15 owners who don't give a shit about resale, comparative speeds, or (mild) budget constraints.

 

Except clearly they DO care about comparative speeds ;) it is in all the Melges marketing material for this one and it also seems- whether because of budget constraints or ease of organization that there is an effort by Melges to address those concerns-- again, its in the marketing material.

 

Full disclosure: I'm rooting hard for the M40 to do well

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It's a death trap - look at that companionway.

Companionway? You mean the assy storage compartment.

 

 

I thought that was the cigar holder / ashtray...

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OK, Looks Wayyyy cool with sails up, so why no furler?? Jib is tiny right?? Just leave it up all the time like a big dinghy?????

 

Inquiring minds and all that...

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325k for the new NYYC foiling 30-foot trimaran

 

 

Interesting... any links to any threads/articles/rumors/photos re this?

 

Thanks

 

 

+1 That sounds like a beast of a boat

 

 

Is Clean talking about the new DNA F4?

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Same point as a 32 foot day racer?

There's a hell of a difference in the price tag and running cost for a 32-footer versus a 40-footer and consequently in the size of the market.

 

If this actually develops into a real OD fleet, which none of its recent competitors has done, then you can come back and tell me you were right and I was wrong.

 

Biggest targets for this one are owners of Melges 32, RC44, Farr40, TP52 and Michetti knows them all. That's a decent sized pool of potential owners for a boat with a 5-order headstart. That said, times are a changin' and 800k might be a lot these days for a boat that won't even do 15 knots upwind...

 

Then again, a new TP costs over 2 million bucks and may be slower around the track than this thing, so there's clearly people out there who have no problem spending the cash to get some fun monohull racing.

So your options are: sail a 10+ year old boat or get a 2 million buck TP52

 

Don't forget the much smaller crew requirement than a 52 this thing will have.

 

 

 

In the world of monohull grand prix racing with a worldwide footprint, I think that's about right. Amazingly over 100 TP52s have been built and their continued performance under various handicap rules has helped keep the class- and the name - on people's minds while everything else fades away. The obvious replacement for most of the classes is now multihulls, which take less than half the crew and go twice as quickly - just look at the price points: At 250k for a M32, 325k for the new NYYC foiling 30-foot trimaran, 420k for a GC32, and a million and change for a MOD70 that will crush records easier than Donald Trump crushes pussy, the decision just keeps getting easier thought he TP is the last real holdout.

 

Federico is taking a big gamble on a canting OD boat and he could only get people excited by promising performance from a 40-footer that exceeds anything the market has seen thus far. i have no idea if it will succeed but am angling for a real test sail soon so I can find out its chances. I might fly to Dubai next week...

 

 

 

 

RC44 continues to get 6-10 boats at big events. Otherwise, not a factor.

Melges 32, 10-20 boats at big events, otherwise, not a factor. will revive at some point thanks to 200+ boats out there and a great sailing platform

Farr 40 mostly dead. 4-10 boats at big events. Has had all the revivals it will have.

Farr/Mumm 30 see above. 4-12 boats at events.

C&C30 more of a club/US boat. 5-15 boats at events. One crew described them as 'the J/boat for those bored of j/boats'. No international grand prix level action yet.

McConaghy 38 - 8 boats in NSW. stillborn outside Oz

Farr 280 - 2-5 boats it Annapolis and nearby events. mostly DOA thanks to a high price point

Farr 400 - DOA thanks to a horribly ugly look and early build issues

Carkeek 40 - killed by benj's overspending, wide variety in early boats. Benj moved to a TP52. Decision moved to the Camper VO70.

Ker 40/42/etc - suborned by Fast 40 handicap rule and the fact that brits seem to hate one design over a certain size. Lots of these things around, not a lot of one-design.

 

 

Is there really a big difference in running cost between a Melges 32 and Melges 40? North site advertised price for a full set of sails: Melges 32 - $43k, Farr40 - $67k, Soto 40 - $64k.

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Is there really a big difference in running cost between a Melges 32 and Melges 40? North site advertised price for a full set of sails: Melges 32 - $43k, Farr40 - $67k, Soto 40 - $64k.

 

At least double but probably more like 3x

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The one thing that bugs me about the M40 website, is the "Lifestyles" menu, then choose the racing link.

 

Absolutely nothing about racing.

 

Ya think they are grasping at the Stock Market, Money from nothing, Crowd??

 

 

That's Sailing....................Bye Bye Olympics.........Hello dreamland

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In the world of monohull grand prix racing with a worldwide footprint, I think that's about right. Amazingly over 100 TP52s have been built and their continued performance under various handicap rules has helped keep the class- and the name - on people's minds while everything else fades away. The obvious replacement for most of the classes is now multihulls, which take less than half the crew and go twice as quickly - just look at the price points: At 250k for a M32, 325k for the new NYYC foiling 30-foot trimaran, 420k for a GC32, and a million and change for a MOD70 that will crush records easier than Donald Trump crushes pussy, the decision just keeps getting easier thought he TP is the last real holdout.

 

Federico is taking a big gamble on a canting OD boat and he could only get people excited by promising performance from a 40-footer that exceeds anything the market has seen thus far. i have no idea if it will succeed but am angling for a real test sail soon so I can find out its chances. I might fly to Dubai next week...

 

 

 

 

RC44 continues to get 6-10 boats at big events. Otherwise, not a factor.

Melges 32, 10-20 boats at big events, otherwise, not a factor. will revive at some point thanks to 200+ boats out there and a great sailing platform

Farr 40 mostly dead. 4-10 boats at big events. Has had all the revivals it will have.

Farr/Mumm 30 see above. 4-12 boats at events.

C&C30 more of a club/US boat. 5-15 boats at events. One crew described them as 'the J/boat for those bored of j/boats'. No international grand prix level action yet.

McConaghy 38 - 8 boats in NSW. stillborn outside Oz

Farr 280 - 2-5 boats it Annapolis and nearby events. mostly DOA thanks to a high price point

Farr 400 - DOA thanks to a horribly ugly look and early build issues

Carkeek 40 - killed by benj's overspending, wide variety in early boats. Benj moved to a TP52. Decision moved to the Camper VO70.

Ker 40/42/etc - suborned by Fast 40 handicap rule and the fact that brits seem to hate one design over a certain size. Lots of these things around, not a lot of one-design.

 

 

Is there really a big difference in running cost between a Melges 32 and Melges 40? North site advertised price for a full set of sails: Melges 32 - $43k, Farr40 - $67k, Soto 40 - $64k.

 

Mainsail is much bigger than a Farr 40. Spins are massive in comparison. Expect the cost to increase at a rate of $200 p/m2 per sail. + 40% if you buy into the 3di spin.

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The Elliott 35 super sport can take time out of a tp52 on a reach I'd think it's entirely possible the Mel 40 could do it happily. But getting gun smoke over a tp52 around the cans unlikely. The tp52s pass us upwind (elliott 35 ss) like we are anchored

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325k for the new NYYC foiling 30-foot trimaran

 

 

Interesting... any links to any threads/articles/rumors/photos re this?

 

Thanks

 

 

+1 That sounds like a beast of a boat

 

 

Is Clean talking about the new DNA F4?

 

 

Maybe. But, according to this:

 

http://dnaperformancesailing.com/our-boats/dna-f4-offshore-racer/

 

that very interesting boat is a 46 footer. Looks like an alternative to the G4 Gunboat or whatever follows it.

 

I do not have a lot of insight into the internal processes of the NYYC. But the boats that they have championed over the years have had at least some dual purpose nature... less so lately, but the theory supposedly was that the same boat could be used for both a race week, and the club's summer cruise. Hard to see how you could "foil up the furniture."

 

But a fast tri still an interesting call. Surprised nobody has weighed in.

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Well, F4 and G4 are produced under the same roof so maybe Clean can tap his sources to get a sense of the differing missions of the two boats, both of which are catamarans. DNA website touts the G4 as a cruiser... yah, we've been down this road before.

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Ker 40/42/etc - suborned by Fast 40 handicap rule and the fact that brits seem to hate one design over a certain size.

Brits? I don't think it's Brits. The seriously wealthy don't much like OD.

 

 

 

Huhwhat? Every billionaire in the sport is in one-design. Torborn just won the RC44 worlds, Larry did it a few years back. The Devos' spent half a decade in the Melges 32, (which they said was way more fun than their handicap racing boat) before getting into the Marstrom 32, and several kings and princes have been or are in the GC32, M32, Farr 40, or TP52, which has such a narrow box that it's pretty close to OD. Even those with offshore handicap boats have tended to race one-design for their fun. See Robertissima for instance, or Zensstrom, or Goranson - all winners of major RORC races in their 'big boats', but plenty active in their other 52/44/32 fleets.

 

The pom super wealthy are perhaps different?

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