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17 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

If legalizing drugs would put the violent cartels out of business, why don't we do it?

Because UNDOING SOMETHING involves politicians giving up power.

They're not in that business.

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I would be all in for spending $5.7 billion on building a wall in the US...   between church and state.    That would do a helluva lot more to keep us safe than the Trump Maginot L

It's troubling that you support Milo being able to go where ever he wants but don't want hard working immigrants looking for a better life into our country. If these folks were trying to get into

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10 hours ago, Bent Sailor said:

Your claim that the US is not detaining asylum seekers inside it's borders. When they are, in fact, doing so. That is what you are wrong about.

Cite please.

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2 minutes ago, Dog said:

Asylum seekers who break in however are detained in the country (and ultimately released into the country) which is one reason they prefer to break in.

And yet you are still wrong about what you said above. Asylum seekers who presented themselves at ports of entry have been detained and within US borders. No amount of spin makes you right about it nor me a liar for pointing that out.

You on the other hand have demonstrated you are.

giphy.gif.5250b3dc57a9402a2074caddd5c5e496.gif

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1 minute ago, Bent Sailor said:

And yet you are still wrong about what you said above. Asylum seekers who presented themselves at ports of entry have been detained and within US borders. No amount of spin makes you right about it nor me a liar for pointing that out.

True...prior to implimentation of the "wait in Mexico" policy they were detained in the US.

I am right and your claim that I said "the US is not detaining asylum seekers inside it's borders" is false.

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6 minutes ago, Dog said:

True...prior to implimentation of the "wait in Mexico" policy they were detained in the US.

I am right...

Nope. As I pointed out to you last time. That was a trial that is yet to be rolled out to all ports of entry. You were wrong then and wrong now...

 

Quote

...and your claim that I said "the US is not detaining asylum seekers inside it's borders" is false.

Nope. Quoted you saying that. Provided the cite as per your request. If you want to play semantics and say you never said that ALL asylum seekers were detained outside US borders, I'm happy to play that game and point out that my post does not specify ALL asylum seekers either.

Keep stepping on that rake, Dog. It's most amusing.

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2 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

Now stop that Tom. Stop that right now. 

This is what I do not understand about the American Left. Used to be that "the left" were into heady ideology of keeping government out of their business. Leaving them be to live their lives unencumbered by an overbearing government. Who damn 60's movement was all about this in large part. Even the bastions of communism, farms bought up by hippies, communal living, off the grid wanted little to do with 'big brother'. "Just leave us in peace". The whole "Drop Out" movement of  antiestablishmentarianism, the counterculture, all based on a philosophy of 'just leave us be'.

Fast forward a couple of decades and we have this whole leftist movement now of bowing to big government, seizing control of more and more aspects of our lives. Telling us all what to do and how to think. Amazing to watch and even more amazing is the claims of individualism and intellectual superiority of those most investedin being mindless bots following dogma of those who seek to lead (read as control).

I find it most troubling.... this In Government We Trust mentality.

BDB,

When you speak in broad generalities you miss the mark.

I don't want to be told what to do and I don't want to lord it over others.  I do find it offensive when my fellow creature litters.  I won't confront them to their face because it is not worth the potential consequences.  When they "fly" by at stupid speeds threatening the lives of innocents I appreciate the police.  They can smoke marijuana to their heart's delight but when they smoke meth it becomes problematical to share the city with them.

I spend a lot of my tax money on Grady Hospital.  It is our big public hospital.  I'd rather spend less.

Climate change is real and the sooner we address it the less severe it will be.  That's not belief, it is science.

It is quite acceptable for one to choose the country versus the city.  I like to be around these intelligent folks who provide comedy, theatre and music.  Camping also brings joy.

Try to realize anger won't make you feel better.

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18 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

Nope. As I pointed out to you last time. That was a trial that is yet to be rolled out to all ports of entry. You were wrong then and wrong now...

 

Nope. Quoted you saying that. Provided the cite as per your request. If you want to play semantics and say you never said that ALL asylum seekers were detained outside US borders, I'm happy to play that game and point out that my post does not specify ALL asylum seekers either.

Keep stepping on that rake, Dog. It's most amusing.

When it comes to playing semantic games you reign supreme but do you still stand by you accusation that posting what I did makes me a liar?

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6 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

You realize that due to the fact that there is any exception to every rule that BS will ever push his/her BS in his/her world where "black is grey and yellow, white." It is all an illusion and he or she fancies himself/herself as intellectually superior.....which is a whole other subject about the pinnings of that.

But it is all so clear to him/her sitting in Oz what exactly is going on in the US. You want to know how whack that is, he/she thinks that illegals are "presenting themselves at the border and asking for asylum". Of course they are not doing this in the least. What they are doing is attempting to enter the US by any means possible and then if caught, and only if caught, that are asking for asylum to exploit our laws to be given a hearing with the understanding that we do not have the capacity to detain all asylum seekers in this current atmosphere. Thus they are released and "asked" to come back for a hearing. Those who actually return for their hearing is south of 10%.

But it is all so clear in the land of Oz.

That's not something you see every day. A decrepit old man humping the leg of a Dog. :lol:

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1 minute ago, Dog said:

When it comes to playing semantic games you reign supreme but do you still stand by you accusation that posting what I did makes me a liar?

I stand by what I posted. You are a liar. You said what I said you did. You are wrong about the detainment of asylum seekers. 

You want to imagine more than that, you go right ahead. 

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1 minute ago, Bent Sailor said:

I stand by what I posted. You are a liar. You said what I said you did. You are wrong about the detainment of asylum seekers. 

You want to imagine more than that, you go right ahead. 

Ha...ha...ha...

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15 minutes ago, hasher said:

BDB,

When you speak in broad generalities you miss the mark.

I don't want to be told what to do and I don't want to lord it over others.  I do find it offensive when my fellow creature litters.  I won't confront them to their face because it is not worth the potential consequences.  When they "fly" by at stupid speeds threatening the lives of innocents I appreciate the police.  They can smoke marijuana to their heart's delight but when they smoke meth it becomes problematical to share the city with them.

I spend a lot of my tax money on Grady Hospital.  It is our big public hospital.  I'd rather spend less.

Climate change is real and the sooner we address it the less severe it will be.  That's not belief, it is science.

It is quite acceptable for one to choose the country versus the city.  I like to be around these intelligent folks who provide comedy, theatre and music.  Camping also brings joy.

Try to realize anger won't make you feel better.

don;t be so rational

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44 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

Now stop that Tom. Stop that right now. 

This is what I do not understand about the American Left. Used to be that "the left" were into heady ideology of keeping government out of their business. Leaving them be to live their lives unencumbered by an overbearing government. Who damn 60's movement was all about this in large part. Even the bastions of communism, farms bought up by hippies, communal living, off the grid wanted little to do with 'big brother'. "Just leave us in peace". The whole "Drop Out" movement of  antiestablishmentarianism, the counterculture, all based on a philosophy of 'just leave us be'.

Fast forward a couple of decades and we have this whole leftist movement now of bowing to big government, seizing control of more and more aspects of our lives. Telling us all what to do and how to think. Amazing to watch and even more amazing is the claims of individualism and intellectual superiority of those most investedin being mindless bots following dogma of those who seek to lead (read as control).

I find it most troubling.... this In Government We Trust mentality.

Fast forward a couple of decades and we have the right-wing media defining "The Left" as anybody they don't like, and spinning total fiction as they describe this "The Left."

The result is death threats against Congresspeople who happen to be Muslim, a tax cut for for the 1%ers which guts the rest of the economy, and stupidity in public such as the ^ above ^ post.

-DSK

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10 hours ago, BillDBastard said:

Wow. Clueless my old friend.

Ask yourself if you agree with Hasher painting a certain group as intellectual and thus deeming others far less so.

Do you really think country folk are somehow inferior? This feigned superiority is most comical if not full on delusional.

i was talking about the first couple of lines...I should have read all of it...with that said, I think Hasher's first few lines are quite rational.......as far as city/country, I've lived in both...like em both and there are as many dolts and smart people living in both places

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11 hours ago, Dog said:

Ha...ha...ha...

David Attenborough voice:

Notice how the Dog cowers when cornered with a plaintive non-response. The high pitched whine of "Ha...ha...ha..." is the invertebrate's attempt to throw off pursuers in the vain hope they forget the animal is pinned down with nowhere to run. 

Oddly, in this case, you may notice in the corner of the screen what appears to be a decrepit, clueless old man jumping the cornered Dog's leg. This is, in fact, a rare example of the BDB breed of fakebertarian seeking comfort and affection from other beaten creatures in it's dwindling years.

A more pathetic scene you may never see again on this *pause for effect* Living Planet.

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now he's taking agents off the ports (where all the drugs come in) and reassigning them to the border.

I'm confused.

The way I read this is they are redeploying border agents from the ports where all the drugs come in, reducing personell that check the trucks for drugs and illegals, in order to apprehend and process more people that sneak in elsewhere.

Is trump worried more about Drugs coming in with "Bad Dudes" in trucks..or mums, dad,s kiddies sneaking across?

(Reuters) - U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) will pull around 750 officers off ports of entry and redeploy them to process record numbers of migrant families entering the United States at the Mexico border, the head of the agency said on Wednesday.

 

President Donald Trump warned Saturday of “traffic & commercial delays” along the southern border as a result of the administration’s decision earlier this week to ramp up the number of immigration officers processing Central American migrants attempting to enter the U.S. through Mexico.

“We have redeployed 750 agents at the Southern Border’s specific Ports of Entry in order to help with the large scale surge of illegal migrants trying to make their way into the United States,” the president wrote on Twitter.

 

“This will cause traffic & commercial delays until such time as Mexico is able to use … it’s powerful common sense Immigration Laws to stop illegals from coming through Mexico into the U.S., and removing them back to their country of origin,” Trump continued. “Until Mexico cleans up this ridiculous & massive migration, we will be focusing on Border Security, not Ports of Entry.”

 

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20 hours ago, BillDBastard said:
23 hours ago, Importunate Tom said:

Because UNDOING SOMETHING involves politicians giving up power.

They're not in that business.

Now stop that Tom. Stop that right now. 

This is what I do not understand about the American Left. Used to be that "the left" were into heady ideology of keeping government out of their business. Leaving them be to live their lives unencumbered by an overbearing government. Who damn 60's movement was all about this in large part. Even the bastions of communism, farms bought up by hippies, communal living, off the grid wanted little to do with 'big brother'. "Just leave us in peace". The whole "Drop Out" movement of  antiestablishmentarianism, the counterculture, all based on a philosophy of 'just leave us be'.

Fast forward a couple of decades and we have this whole leftist movement now of bowing to big government, seizing control of more and more aspects of our lives. Telling us all what to do and how to think. Amazing to watch and even more amazing is the claims of individualism and intellectual superiority of those most investedin being mindless bots following dogma of those who seek to lead (read as control).

I find it most troubling.... this In Government We Trust mentality.

The left has been tolerant of the stupid drug war more than supportive, though it could not have continued without Duopoly support.

Conservatives are the Puritan nanny statists who have been the driving force behind the stupid drug war.

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9 hours ago, Bent Sailor said:

David Attenborough voice:

Notice how the Dog cowers when cornered with a plaintive non-response. The high pitched whine of "Ha...ha...ha..." is the invertebrate's attempt to throw off pursuers in the vain hope they forget the animal is pinned down with nowhere to run. 

Oddly, in this case, you may notice in the corner of the screen what appears to be a decrepit, clueless old man jumping the cornered Dog's leg. This is, in fact, a rare example of the BDB breed of fakebertarian seeking comfort and affection from other beaten creatures in it's dwindling years.

A more pathetic scene you may never see again on this *pause for effect* Living Planet.

Speaking of pathetic.

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2 hours ago, Dog said:

Speaking of pathetic.

Well, yes, that was "speaking of pathetic". Congratulations, I was afraid it might have been a little subtle for you.

 

48 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

Truly honored....  most sincerely. 

Thank you.

You're welcome. Any time you need a quick pick me up to distract from the miserable existence that is your life, I'm happy to help. 

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14 hours ago, dacapo said:

i was talking about the first couple of lines...I should have read all of it...with that said, I think Hasher's first few lines are quite rational.......as far as city/country, I've lived in both...like em both and there are as many dolts and smart people living in both places

I did not mean to insult the puppy.  I spent every Sunday afternoon on the family farm until my grandmother died.

I love life in all its iterations.  I love puppies and kitty cats too.  

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Turns out Raz'r was right. A judge has now blocked Trump's "wait in Mexico" policy meaning that asylum seekers (and the 90% who are just posing as asylum seekers) no longer have to break in, they can just knock on the door and they will be admitted and released into the country. A colossal fuck up that could be easily remedied legislatively if either party had the will to do it.

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Just now, Dog said:

Turns out Raz'r was right. A judge has now blocked Trump's "wait in Mexico" policy meaning that asylum seekers (and the 90% who are just posing as asylum seekers) no longer have to break in, they can just knock on the door and they will be admitted and released into the country. A colossal fuck up that could be easily remedied legislatively if either party had the will to do it.

Will the Administration respond by adding resources to process these individuals?  Or, will they continue to insist we build a wall?

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3 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Will the Administration respond by adding resources to process these individuals?  Or, will they continue to insist we build a wall?

I have no idea what the administration will do. Under these circumstances it seems foolish to spend any money on border security be it walls or otherwise.

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6 minutes ago, Dog said:

I have no idea what the administration will do. Under these circumstances it seems foolish to spend any money on border security be it walls or otherwise.

Oh, that's a great idea.  Admit them and refuse to process their requests.  Then, just point the finger and say blame someone else.   

Too bad we don't have someone in place who can do anything more than golf, Tweet, and overturn Obama era policies with EOs (which used to be bad).

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Two factors are driving the asylum seekers: the cessation of US back government programs to address issues in the 3 countries

                                                                               Climate Change

Issue one Trump is directly responsible for. #2 only because he chooses to ignore it.  Trump is the GOP's useful idiot - they get to pack all the courts with their judges, pass the tax cuts while Trump distracts everyone with his daily shit show. 

It's still not going to end well for Trump or the average citizen. For the Haves? It's all good.

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33 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Oh, that's a great idea.  Admit them and refuse to process their requests.  Then, just point the finger and say blame someone else.   

Too bad we don't have someone in place who can do anything more than golf, Tweet, and overturn Obama era policies with EOs (which used to be bad).

I think it's more a case of admit them and procerss their request if they show up for their hearing, many won't. Meanwhile they keep comming because they know they can play the system, 100,000 last month alone.

 

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3 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Two factors are driving the asylum seekers: the cessation of US back government programs to address issues in the 3 countries

                                                                               Climate Change

Issue one Trump is directly responsible for. #2 only because he chooses to ignore it.  Trump is the GOP's useful idiot - they get to pack all the courts with their judges, pass the tax cuts while Trump distracts everyone with his daily shit show. 

It's still not going to end well for Trump or the average citizen. For the Haves? It's all good.

Some of them have legitimate asylum claims. Most are comming for the money.

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3 minutes ago, Dog said:

I think it's more a case of admit them and procerss their request if they show up for their hearing, many won't. Meanwhile they keep comming because they know they can play the system, 100,000 last month alone.

3 minutes ago, Dog said:

Some of them have legitimate asylum claims. Most are comming for the money.

 

So if "playing the system" is so great why aren't they coming from Mexico? Because our Liar In Chief says they are Mexicans when in fact they are from those other 3 Mexican Countries*

As to "comming for the money" do you mean jobs or the infamous liberal "free stuff"?  My experience is that legal or not these people work hard and without legal status are truly 2nd class citizens and often treated badly.  It would be helpful if you would at a minimum address the reasons they are coming.

The factors of push/pull are not complicated yet ignored by those outraged by the "crisis".

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8 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

So if "playing the system" is so great why aren't they coming from Mexico? Because our Liar In Chief says they are Mexicans when in fact they are from those other 3 Mexican Countries*

As to "comming for the money" do you mean jobs or the infamous liberal "free stuff"?  My experience is that legal or not these people work hard and without legal status are truly 2nd class citizens and often treated badly.  It would be helpful if you would at a minimum address the reasons they are coming.

The factors of push/pull are not complicated yet ignored by those outraged by the "crisis".

My experience is the same. They are wonderful people looking for a better life and we should have a system in place to process them, admit the ones we want and reject the ones we don't. It doesn't help that we have a political party the denies that we have a problem.

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20 minutes ago, Dog said:

I think it's more a case of admit them and procerss their request if they show up for their hearing, many won't. Meanwhile they keep comming because they know they can play the system, 100,000 last month alone.

 

So, dedicate resources to address the huge backlog and change the process. 

He isn't a monarch, no matter how much he wants to be one.

We need a leader.  We have a toddler.

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Just now, Bus Driver said:

So, dedicate resources to address the huge backlog and change the process. 

He isn't a monarch, no matter how much he wants to be one.

We need a leader.  We have a toddler.

That requires a legislative solution. As you said, Trump isn't a monarch.

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1 minute ago, Dog said:

That requires a legislative solution. As you said, Trump isn't a monarch.

He is trying to direct legislation by demanding a wall.  He ain't gonna get it, because the idea is stupid and fails to address the problem as he has defined it.  

A leader would see he will continue to fail in this effort and find another, more workable, solution.

He just wants to build a wall.  Buy him a Lego set.

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1 hour ago, Bus Driver said:

He is trying to direct legislation by demanding a wall.  He ain't gonna get it, because the idea is stupid and fails to address the problem as he has defined it.  

A leader would see he will continue to fail in this effort and find another, more workable, solution.

He just wants to build a wall.  Buy him a Lego set.

He may be more interested in it as a political issue. You can bet he's going to hang it around the neck of the Democratic candidate and the worse it gets the better for him.

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19 minutes ago, Dog said:

He may be more interested in it as a political issue. You can bet he's going to hang it around the neck of the Democratic candidate and the worse it gets the better for him.

Clever, lazy, and stubborn.....

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4 hours ago, Dog said:

Turns out Raz'r was right. A judge has now blocked Trump's "wait in Mexico" policy meaning that asylum seekers (and the 90% who are just posing as asylum seekers) no longer have to break in, they can just knock on the door and they will be admitted and released into the country.

As per the rules of the treaty your nation signed onto. That's kind of how the law works.

Oh, just a reminder, that policy still hadn't gotten rolled out to all ports of entry so, you know, as a man of integrity, you'll admit you fucked that up too... :lol: Yeah, I couldn't hold a straight face when I suggested you had integrity either.

 

4 hours ago, Dog said:

A colossal fuck up that could be easily remedied legislatively if either party had the will to do it.

Neither of them do. Neither does Trump. As you can't help pointing out, Trump "probably" prefers it as a political issue rather than a problem to solve. Something to, I believe, "hang around the neck of a Democrat" or something along those lines. But, as you say above, neither party has the will with only one pretending that something needs to be done now!

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On 4/6/2019 at 6:01 AM, BillDBastard said:

You realize that due to the fact that there is any exception to every rule that BS will ever push his/her BS in his/her world where "black is grey and yellow, white." It is all an illusion and he or she fancies himself/herself as intellectually superior.....which is a whole other subject about the pinnings of that.

But it is all so clear to him/her sitting in Oz what exactly is going on in the US. You want to know how whack that is, he/she thinks that illegals are "presenting themselves at the border and asking for asylum". Of course they are not doing this in the least. What they are doing is attempting to enter the US by any means possible and then if caught, and only if caught, that are asking for asylum to exploit our laws to be given a hearing with the understanding that we do not have the capacity to detain all asylum seekers in this current atmosphere. Thus they are released and "asked" to come back for a hearing. Those who actually return for their hearing is south of 10%.

But it is all so clear in the land of Oz.

100 percent false.  In fact most actually do come back for the hearings there are numerous cites for this.  

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/facts-not-fear-heres-what-doj-stats-say-about-asylum-seekers-and-court-dates

https://www.humanrightsfirst.org/resource/fact-check-asylum-seekers-regularly-attend-immigration-court-hearings

http://immigrationimpact.com/2019/01/30/asylum-seekers-show-up-for-court/

In Fact, The orange ones Retarded policies are causing more people to attempt to come over because they fear at some point his stupid policies might actually take affect and they will be screwed.  Stop with the fake news shit...  

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/trump-restricted-flow-border-more-migrants-trying-sneak-through-undetected-n976356

 

Of course they are not doing this in the least. What they are doing is attempting to enter the US by any means possible and then if caught, and only if caught, that are asking for asylum to exploit our laws to be given a hearing with the understanding that we do not have the capacity to detain all asylum seekers in this current atmosphere. Thus they are released and "asked" to come back for a hearing. Those who actually return for their hearing is south of 10%.

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31 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

We do fuckwhit.  It's the one your boy shitstain is undermining to provide theater for you to angrily rant about with your rightwing buddys.

anyways - you'll bullshit because you bullshit. you've made your life choice.

And he hates birthright citizenship, which of course his kiddies have. He's just another "fuck you, I got mine" rightie.

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32 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

We do fuckwhit.  It's the one your boy shitstain is undermining to provide theater for you to angrily rant about with your rightwing buddys.

anyways - you'll bullshit because you bullshit. you've made your life choice.

No - we don't - what we have is a system that, if adhered to, might result in some of those controls, but that in reality the enforcement of which has been politically demonized resulting in an uncontrolled free for all.  They get in?  they're in.  "ICE raids?  Heaven forbid - these people are just trying to be good neighbors, that they broke the law to get here and stay here doesn't really matter".   

You want to get nationwide support for immigration reform - then let's get busy working on reform, rather than trying to politically gut enforcement while proclaiming compassion and doing absolutely NOTHING since 1986 to fix the problem in a nationally supportable manner. 

 

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3 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

No - we don't - what we have is a system that, if adhered to, might result in some of those controls, but that in reality the enforcement of which has been politically demonized resulting in an uncontrolled free for all.  They get in?  they're in.  "ICE raids?  Heaven forbid - these people are just trying to be good neighbors, that they broke the law to get here and stay here doesn't really matter".   

You want to get nationwide support for immigration reform - then let's get busy working on reform, rather than trying to politically gut enforcement while proclaiming compassion and doing absolutely NOTHING since 1986 to fix the problem in a nationally supportable manner. 

 

who's gutting enforcement? Obama was the deport-champ.

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2 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

who's gutting enforcement? Obama was the deport-champ.

Sanctuary cities,  the D appeal to abolish ICE?  The hue and cry that we can't deport everyone that's here illegally?  What are those if not attempts to negate enforcement?   You know where I stand on this issue - and I think that the noise from both extremes needs to be discounted, and we need to create a real, permanent, viable solution to our current immigration mess.  Part of that is going to entail changing how & why we decided to admit people, and part of it is going to have to be improved enforcement efficiency.    

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19 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Sanctuary cities,  the D appeal to abolish ICE?  The hue and cry that we can't deport everyone that's here illegally?  What are those if not attempts to negate enforcement?   You know where I stand on this issue - and I think that the noise from both extremes needs to be discounted, and we need to create a real, permanent, viable solution to our current immigration mess.  Part of that is going to entail changing how & why we decided to admit people, and part of it is going to have to be improved enforcement efficiency.    

The "hue and cry that we cannot deport everybody who is here illegally" is the fucking reality of the situation, as it exists on the ground.

Personally, I would like to abolish ICE because they are an exo-Constitutional Federal police force, that is poised to dictate to local police forces.... a poor way to fight crime, one; and two, abhorrent to belief in the US Constitution and the rights of US citizens.

Improving the immigration process, yes. Improving enforcement, yes..... otoh I don't see increasing the scourging of brown people as "improvement"

-DSK

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Just now, Steam Flyer said:

The "hue and cry that we cannot deport everybody who is here illegally" is the fucking reality of the situation, as it exists on the ground.

Personally, I would like to abolish ICE because they are an exo-Constitutional Federal police force, that is poised to dictate to local police forces.... a poor way to fight crime, one; and abhorrent to belief in the US Constitution and the rights of US citizens.

Improving the immigration process, yes. Improving enforcement, yes..... otoh I don't see increasing the scourging of brown people as "improvement"

-DSK

And I don't see looking the other way while hordes of "brown people" are admitted in an uncontrolled and unenforced invasion as doing anything but exacerbating the problem.   So - do we establish a reasonable, workable, efficient immigration system that includes objective admittance criterion, viable quotas based upon need/sustainability, and after doing so support rigorous enforcement, or do we continue to use the issue as a wedge while watching as it continually worsens? 

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2 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

And I don't see looking the other way while hordes of "brown people" are admitted in an uncontrolled and unenforced invasion as doing anything but exacerbating the problem.   So - do we establish a reasonable, workable, efficient immigration system that includes objective admittance criterion, viable quotas based upon need/sustainability, and after doing so support rigorous enforcement, or do we continue to use the issue as a wedge while watching as it continually worsens? 

Gee, this is certainly a well-reasoned and constructive bit of prose.

"And I don't see looking the other way while hordes of "brown people" are admitted in an uncontrolled and unenforced invasion"

Take a deep breath, look out the window, get a grip on reality, and come back when you can talk sense. There ain't no "reasonable" system possible when the administration is held hostage by screaming hysterics repeating the garbage propaganda from hate-spew right-wing media.

^ this ^ is the rat hole swallowing up the country. Please help.

-DSK

 

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if people are so concerned about border security, it might be good to have a functional Department of Homeland Security.  The Smartest, Most Successful Businessman in New York doesn't seem to have that same perspective, however:

“DHS is now without a secretary, deputy secretary, ICE director, FEMA director, Secret Service director, inspector general, undersecretary for policy, undersecretary for science and technology, chief financial officer and chief privacy officer,” she said. “That’s at least 10 top positions filled by someone in an acting capacity.”

The Greatest *Resident in the Last Two Years doesn't seem to think so.  He'd rather tweet belligerence.

Trolls, start spinning.....

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Just now, Steam Flyer said:

Gee, this is certainly a well-reasoned and constructive bit of prose.

"And I don't see looking the other way while hordes of "brown people" are admitted in an uncontrolled and unenforced invasion"

Take a deep breath, look out the window, get a grip on reality, and come back when you can talk sense. There ain't no "reasonable" system possible when the administration is held hostage by screaming hysterics repeating the garbage propaganda from hate-spew right-wing media.

^ this ^ is the rat hole swallowing up the country. Please help.

-DSK

 

100K in the past month across the southern border.  That's a numeric fact - it's not repeating garbage from hate-spew right-wing talking machines.   

How should I interpret your choice of words - when that's not at all what I said or suggested? 

12 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

otoh I don't see increasing the scourging of brown people as "improvement"

 

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4 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:
7 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Gee, this is certainly a well-reasoned and constructive bit of prose.

"And I don't see looking the other way while hordes of "brown people" are admitted in an uncontrolled and unenforced invasion"

Take a deep breath, look out the window, get a grip on reality...   ...

 

100K in the past month across the southern border.  That's a numeric fact - it's not repeating garbage from hate-spew right-wing talking machines.   

How should I interpret your choice of words - when that's not at all what I said or suggested? 

16 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

otoh I don't see increasing the scourging of brown people as "improvement"

  

Hmm, well I see the sweeps of arrests & deportation with minimal hearings, plus the brutalizing of suspects, plus the seperation of kids with no ability to return them to their families, etc etc, as well with the definition of "scourge"

And if there is an uncontrolled army invasion at the southern border, how do we have all these problems with detainee overcrowding? How did we get a count? Sounds like there is some controlling going on?

My rhetoric is well reasoned and based on observed fact. You see me as some kind of wild-eyed commie fag intent on destroying America and your rhetoric is based on painting me as such. This is not going to lead to any kind of agreement, in fact it leads me to think that even trying is futile.

One group of Americans is going to end up shooting the rest of Americans, if this keeps up. Maybe us wild-eyed leftists should enlist these tough hombres in the invading brown peoples army to help us. Of course, once it begins in earnest, life here will suck so bad they will probably go back where they came from.

Maybe that's the preferred Trumpette solution, after all. The new aristocracy won't care what misery the huddled masses suffer through

-DSK

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1 hour ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Sanctuary cities,  the D appeal to abolish ICE?  The hue and cry that we can't deport everyone that's here illegally?  What are those if not attempts to negate enforcement?   You know where I stand on this issue - and I think that the noise from both extremes needs to be discounted, and we need to create a real, permanent, viable solution to our current immigration mess.  Part of that is going to entail changing how & why we decided to admit people, and part of it is going to have to be improved enforcement efficiency.    

meh, fake neuz

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41 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

100K in the past month across the southern border.  That's a numeric fact - it's not repeating garbage from hate-spew right-wing talking machines.   

How should I interpret your choice of words - when that's not at all what I said or suggested? 

 

we need the workers.

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Well, the US administration’s effort on immigration is now being led by no other than white nationalist Steven Miller. And we know how he feels about the brown skins invading from our southern cousins.

Meanwhile, Mar a Lago is quietly purging itself of the undocumented Hispanics caring for its greens and setting up banquet tables. Seems outsourcing their employment to a cutout “employment agency” may have resolved the public image issues, but the Secret Service probably bristled at having to accept groundskeepers with false papers. I’m sure that had nothing to do with firing the head of the Secret Service.

All the while, we have an aging problem, a workforce dropping in number and needing more education. We’ve got underfunded pension plans and a SS system that needs more young workers to stay afloat. 

We used to understand we had a responsibility to the less fortunate, used to be “Christian” about our approach to huddled masses. Turns out, we’ve become racist and nationalists. 

The hypocrisy standard established, Trump seems to be erecting barriers not just to immigration from brown countries, but to our economic well being. MAGA

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3 hours ago, phillysailor said:

Well, the US administration’s effort on immigration is now being led by no other than white nationalist Steven Miller. And we know how he feels about the brown skins invading from our southern cousins.

Meanwhile, Mar a Lago is quietly purging itself of the undocumented Hispanics caring for its greens and setting up banquet tables. Seems outsourcing their employment to a cutout “employment agency” may have resolved the public image issues, but the Secret Service probably bristled at having to accept groundskeepers with false papers. I’m sure that had nothing to do with firing the head of the Secret Service.

All the while, we have an aging problem, a workforce dropping in number and needing more education. We’ve got underfunded pension plans and a SS system that needs more young workers to stay afloat. 

We used to understand we had a responsibility to the less fortunate, used to be “Christian” about our approach to huddled masses. Turns out, we’ve become racist and nationalists. 

The hypocrisy standard established, Trump seems to be erecting barriers not just to immigration from brown countries, but to our economic well being. MAGA

By becoming racist and nationalist are you refering to efforts to control illegal immigration?

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3 hours ago, phillysailor said:

Well, the US administration’s effort on immigration is now being led by no other than white nationalist Steven Miller. And we know how he feels about the brown skins invading from our southern cousins.

Meanwhile, Mar a Lago is quietly purging itself of the undocumented Hispanics caring for its greens and setting up banquet tables. Seems outsourcing their employment to a cutout “employment agency” may have resolved the public image issues, but the Secret Service probably bristled at having to accept groundskeepers with false papers. I’m sure that had nothing to do with firing the head of the Secret Service.

All the while, we have an aging problem, a workforce dropping in number and needing more education. We’ve got underfunded pension plans and a SS system that needs more young workers to stay afloat. 

We used to understand we had a responsibility to the less fortunate, used to be “Christian” about our approach to huddled masses. Turns out, we’ve become racist and nationalists. 

The hypocrisy standard established, Trump seems to be erecting barriers not just to immigration from brown countries, but to our economic well being. MAGA

The Lords need More.  The rest of us must bear our responsibility to sacrifice so that they may have it.  Just make sure to blame it on the person who doesn't look like you and watch him like a hawk, so that you might not notice the activities of the person who does....  

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38 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

He's referring to the white nationalist rhetoric from Trump, who you defend, and Tucker Carlson who you say we should listen to.

No...he's referring not to rhetoric but to policy which I can only assume means efforts to control illegal immigration are racist and nationalist..

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Now Trump is complaining that the military isn't allowed to "get rough" on the southern border. He's blaming the Democrats for laws that prevent soldiers from beating up people Donald doesn't like. I'm sure there are some who feel that a couple of machine guns at every border point should be used to thin out the asylum seekers.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-complains-military-cant-act-like-a-military-would-act

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On 4/9/2019 at 1:40 PM, Steam Flyer said:

Hmm, well I see the sweeps of arrests & deportation with minimal hearings, plus the brutalizing of suspects, plus the seperation of kids with no ability to return them to their families, etc etc, as well with the definition of "scourge"

 And if there is an uncontrolled army invasion at the southern border, how do we have all these problems with detainee overcrowding? How did we get a count? Sounds like there is some controlling going on?

 My rhetoric is well reasoned and based on observed fact. You see me as some kind of wild-eyed commie fag intent on destroying America and your rhetoric is based on painting me as such. This is not going to lead to any kind of agreement, in fact it leads me to think that even trying is futile.

One group of Americans is going to end up shooting the rest of Americans, if this keeps up. Maybe us wild-eyed leftists should enlist these tough hombres in the invading brown peoples army to help us. Of course, once it begins in earnest, life here will suck so bad they will probably go back where they came from.

Maybe that's the preferred Trumpette solution, after all. The new aristocracy won't care what misery the huddled masses suffer through

-DSK

I see you as a reactionary who rarely avoids casting baseless aspersions against people who disagree with you.  What would YOU call an uninvited influx of 100K people in a month if not an invasion? 

You know what I think, and yet you continuously ignore that in your attempts to paint everyone who opposes encouragement of illegal immigration and reduction of enforcement as racist xenophobes. 

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22 hours ago, phillysailor said:

Well, the US administration’s effort on immigration is now being led by no other than white nationalist Steven Miller. And we know how he feels about the brown skins invading from our southern cousins.

Meanwhile, Mar a Lago is quietly purging itself of the undocumented Hispanics caring for its greens and setting up banquet tables. Seems outsourcing their employment to a cutout “employment agency” may have resolved the public image issues, but the Secret Service probably bristled at having to accept groundskeepers with false papers. I’m sure that had nothing to do with firing the head of the Secret Service.

All the while, we have an aging problem, a workforce dropping in number and needing more education. We’ve got underfunded pension plans and a SS system that needs more young workers to stay afloat. 

We used to understand we had a responsibility to the less fortunate, used to be “Christian” about our approach to huddled masses. Turns out, we’ve become racist and nationalists. 

The hypocrisy standard established, Trump seems to be erecting barriers not just to immigration from brown countries, but to our economic well being. MAGA

You're right - what legislation has been passed since 1986 to permanently and efficaciously address the problem?     There HASN'T been - we need to fix the system FIRST.  End-running enforcement and encouraging uncontrolled mass migration isn't the answer. 

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1 hour ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I see you as a reactionary who rarely avoids casting baseless aspersions against people who disagree with you.  What would YOU call an uninvited influx of 100K people in a month if not an invasion? 

You know what I think, and yet you continuously ignore that in your attempts to paint everyone who opposes encouragement of illegal immigration and reduction of enforcement as racist xenophobes. 

Well, there ya go again

Can you point out where I am "encouraging illegal immigration" ??

-DSK

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2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I see you as a reactionary who rarely avoids casting baseless aspersions against people who disagree with you.  What would YOU call an uninvited influx of 100K people in a month if not an invasion? 

You know what I think, and yet you continuously ignore that in your attempts to paint everyone who opposes encouragement of illegal immigration and reduction of enforcement as racist xenophobes. 

I would call it business as usual..  The laws are there, the right just chooses to ignore them.  The ENTIRE WORLD is dealing with increased immigration and we used to be the country that was doing it right, the guiding light in a dark and unwelcoming industrialized world.  It has only become a real issue in the US since the orange, racist, nationalist, prick decided to make it one.

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2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

You're right - what legislation has been passed since 1986 to permanently and efficaciously address the problem?     There HASN'T been - we need to fix the system FIRST.  End-running enforcement and encouraging uncontrolled mass migration isn't the answer. 

How many years since 1986 have Republicans been in charge?  Fuck, they were in charge 2016-18 and nothing was done.  

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8 minutes ago, shaggy said:

I would call it business as usual..  The laws are there, the right just chooses to ignore them.  The ENTIRE WORLD is dealing with increased immigration and we used to be the country that was doing it right, the guiding light in a dark and unwelcoming industrialized world.  It has only become a real issue in the US since the orange, racist, nationalist, prick decided to make it one.

Sorry - trying to pin this on one side or the other is absolute BS Shaggy.   NEITHER side has done anything since 1986 besides using the issue to foment division.  

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5 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

How many years since 1986 have Republicans been in charge?  Fuck, they were in charge 2016-18 and nothing was done.  

If you want to make this about sides, the same question asked of the Ds is equally as valid, isn't it?  It's not about "sides" - it's about recognizing that the current situation is untenable, and working to identify and address causality - not continuing to politicize the issue while doing absolutely NOTHING to fix it. 

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51 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

If you want to make this about sides, the same question asked of the Ds is equally as valid, isn't it?  It's not about "sides" - it's about recognizing that the current situation is untenable, and working to identify and address causality - not continuing to politicize the issue while doing absolutely NOTHING to fix it. 

Maybe you should ask "Why" the powers that be are fine with the existing system?

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1 hour ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

If you want to make this about sides, the same question asked of the Ds is equally as valid, isn't it?  It's not about "sides" - it's about recognizing that the current situation is untenable, and working to identify and address causality - not continuing to politicize the issue while doing absolutely NOTHING to fix it. 

it absolutely is about "sides".  D's presented a plan back in December which Trump said he would sign.  His Fox ass lickers threw a fit and he reneged.  As was said recently above, Obama deported like crazy all while R's made it their stated mission to make sure Obama failed.  The current admin and Trumpies continue to make false claims about D's, open boarders, etc.  We can go back to 2009 and blame Dems for sure.  But what about since?  I'm with you, it SHOULDN'T be about side.  But it would be wishful thinking at best to say it currently is not.

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1 minute ago, Swimsailor said:

it absolutely is about "sides".  D's presented a plan back in December which Trump said he would sign.  His Fox ass lickers threw a fit and he reneged.  As was said recently above, Obama deported like crazy all while R's made it their stated mission to make sure Obama failed.  The current admin and Trumpies continue to make false claims about D's, open boarders, etc.  We can go back to 2009 and blame Dems for sure.  But what about since?  I'm with you, it SHOULDN'T be about side.  But it would be wishful thinking at best to say it currently is not.

What plan that the Ds presented in December are you talking about?   As to sides?   That can only work as long as WE, the voters, let it work.  How do we change that?  One perception at a time. Truth rises to the top, even if it's buried under a whole lotta crap.   We didn't get here quickly - the correction isn't going to be quick either, but, that doesn't mean that the correction isn't worth pursuing.  

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6 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Wall funding in exchange for "fixing" the Dreamers and a few other immigrant groups. Fox News got mad, Trump blew up the deal. Kinda like how Lou Dobbs told trump to fire Nielsen.. and he did.

Appreciate the clarification. IIRC - didn't the funding provision fall way short of what was requested, and wasn't THAT the primary driver of the disagreement? 

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2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Appreciate the clarification. IIRC - didn't the funding provision fall way short of what was requested, and wasn't THAT the primary driver of the disagreement? 

No.  Congress told Trump ahead of time it would the $1.5 billion or so.  Trump said he would sign it.  The disagreement only happened after his advisors who host talk shows on Fox gave him shit for it.  

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1 hour ago, Swimsailor said:

No.  Congress told Trump ahead of time it would the $1.5 billion or so.  Trump said he would sign it.  The disagreement only happened after his advisors who host talk shows on Fox gave him shit for it.  

Wasn't there also something about citizenship for Dreamers in there, that morphed from "yes I will" to "we might think about that" after that hag Laura Ingraham screeched at him?

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The pinheads in Ottawa are retailoring the message to appeal to more voters, but there is a lot of opposition. There is going to be a constitutional challenge on the new measures because some feel that the changes are unconstitutional. We'll see how it all shakes out, the anti-immigrant messaging coming out of the White House has definitely had an effect on the more conservative sector of the population and is motivating the Ignorant Right to get out and show their colours. Alberta is a hotbed of this bullshit, although they are a hotbed of really bad drivers too...they may be connected. 

800px-Aryan_Guard_05.jpg

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4 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Appreciate the clarification. IIRC - didn't the funding provision fall way short of what was requested, and wasn't THAT the primary driver of the disagreement? 

I think the main driver of the disagreement was that Ann Coulter or one of the other equally disgusting hate-spewers called President Trump a spineless weiner-head because he was caving to the libby-rulls.

A shame it didn't move forward IMHO although the wheels probably would have come off anyway. My understanding is that a fair amount of the money appropriated to improve border barriers has been left unspent over the past few years

-DSK

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