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Stiletto vs Warrior vs Viva?


gobigkahuna

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All three cats are roughly the same vintage and size.  I've only been on a Stiletto 27 so am looking for feedback on the other two.  I'll be using it for fast daysailing, weekends on the hook, pulling up on a desolate beach, etc.

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4 hours ago, multihuler said:

wide Reynolds 33 are ten times the boats and are cheap right now

I saw one Reynolds 33 that was in my price range that sold a while back.  Haven't seen anything else I'd call "cheap".

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I owned a Stiletto 27 and I sailed on a Warrior many times in south Texas.

I did not like the Stiletto 27's dagger board setup.  Board was always hard to raise and lower.  Don't know why.

The boat had terrible weather helm in a breeze.  Never could determine why.

I would recommend inshore or near-shore sailing.  I bought a Stiletto 23 and liked it much better.

The Warrior is a much more robust design - sailed well, but it did seem much heavier than the Stiletto 27.

I think the brothers in Florida may still be refurbishing older Stilettos - worth a call anyway.

Never seen a Viva. 

S27 may work fine for you - good luck, please send pics!

Charlie

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I had one of the first R 21's. Raced it in the Yachting Mag One of A Kind regatta whenever it was in New Orleans. They didn't allow Stilettos and wanted to keep it 'beach boat' and when they saw the hatch and pipe berth down (on the R 21) below had a fit! Barely got to participate in the regatta and was pretty much the scratch boat, at the bottom of the fleet! About as fast around the triangles as a Hobie 14, but keep in mind the Hobie was being sailed by one of the Alter boys. If I had been able to put in a week or so sailing the Reynolds before the race I'm sure it and I could have made a better showing. I had a terrible handicap because of the huge screecher and assy spin that Randy had built for the boat and I took a hit for the silly masthead float because Alex Koziloff the measure counted it as mast area since he felt it was providing endplate effect for the top of the main. Good boat for weekending and sleeping in the tramp but down below is like a coffin. Consider it a 3/4 scale Stiletto 27. 

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If you find a Viva 27 and don't buy it, let me know. I had forgotten those but they addressed a few of the major things with the Stiletto and it was a HOT boat for its time. Not many made but one would be a keeper. 

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6 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

If you find a Viva 27 and don't buy it, let me know. I had forgotten those but they addressed a few of the major things with the Stiletto and it was a HOT boat for its time. Not many made but one would be a keeper. 

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1985/Viva-27-2566822/Anacortes/WA/United-States#.WUOtX-srLRY

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I sailed on a Stiletto 27 in Hawaii during the 80's.  From what I recall, it was a fun boat although the daggerboard in the middle of the cockpit was weird and some water did splash up through the slot.

I demo'd the prototype Stiletto X-Series a few weeks ago.  Super sweet boat, loved all the mods they made to the original boat.  But not ready to pay $120K for a boat right now.

I've considered a Stiletto 23 and Reynolds 21, but the wife wants someplace for a private toilet / porta potti before she'll spend an overnight on the boat.  I know that won't work on a S23 but how about a Reynolds 21?  How wide is the R21 inside the hulls?

The only Warrior 29 I've found is in pretty rough shape.  All the aluminum is pretty badly corroded and it's been sitting in the water for a long time.

As funky as the Stiletto 27 may be, it's looking like the better option...

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That Viva looks great! Thanks for the link. You will soon get used to the single daggerboard on the Stiletto. I made a huge improvement by fitting a wooden water ski to the bracket at the bottom of the bracket that braces the daggerboard. It acted as an endplate for the board and kept the nuisiance splashing down and provided a measure of lift at speed. Lots of grumbles about it though when we showed up at the Nationals with it fitted though. Pretty hard to sail a Stiletto over to a capsize because the board loses grip on the water after heeling over 30 degrees and the boat sort of side slips and settles back into the water. Over the front is another thing though but never done so myself. I have capsized a Reynolds 21 though! Famously.

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On Thursday, June 15, 2017 at 3:13 AM, gobigkahuna said:

I saw one Reynolds 33 that was in my price range that sold a while back.  Haven't seen anything else I'd call "cheap".

$36500 seemed cheap, considering they are not that old and $120k new, the 14ft beam caused the massive depreciation, and the 16ft beam boats are much more manageable.

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On 6/15/2017 at 11:18 PM, Charlie P Mayer said:

I owned a Stiletto 27 and I sailed on a Warrior many times in south Texas.

I did not like the Stiletto 27's dagger board setup.  Board was always hard to raise and lower.  Don't know why.

The boat had terrible weather helm in a breeze.  Never could determine why.

I would recommend inshore or near-shore sailing.  I bought a Stiletto 23 and liked it much better.

The Warrior is a much more robust design - sailed well, but it did seem much heavier than the Stiletto 27.

I think the brothers in Florida may still be refurbishing older Stilettos - worth a call anyway.

Never seen a Viva. 

S27 may work fine for you - good luck, please send pics!

Charlie

Easy problems to fix. I had a Stiletto 27 for 8 year and wrote a book about some of our long cruises (local guide book, but with lots of Stiletto tips--see "Circumnavigating the Delmarva..." below).

Hard to Move Board. There is rubber in the slot which is high-friction when dry. To lower, pull up a few inches to wet the rubber, and then drop. IF stuck at the dock, pour a cup of water in the slot. When sailing, come up wind a little to lighten the side load. Then it slides easily.

Weather Helm. Could be sail imbalance or pinching. You've got to keep these boats moving. The fore-aft location of the dagger board is adjustable--rake it all the way back, most of the time.  Additionally, the rake of the rudders can be changed. With these steps taken, the helm should be very light.

Splashing. I cut the top of the board off level with the deck (at the appropriate rake angle) and attached a 1x4x24 board to the top, level with the deck, with webbing handles and a gasket underneath. The splashing stopped and I could then use the space for a cooler. Easy.

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Viva is a much faster boat, well designed and engineered. A vary large sail plan, needs experienced crew in heavy winds. It folds so not too difficult to trailer once you get the hang of it. Heavier than the Stiletto, so not as easy to pull up on a beach but can handle big seas better than the light weight full bowed Stiletto. 

Warrior has to be taken apart to trailer, a heavy boat so slower than the Stiletto. Goes to weather better than the Stiletto because of the in-hull dagger boards and finer hull shape.

Stiletto is very light, great boat to pull the bows up on the beach. Put a tent on the trampoline and you have a great cruiser. Fast on a reach or downwind (it planes in heavy air).You get used to the centerline dagger board, the Stiletto goes to weather just fine as long as you don't pinch. Except for real light air, it is a dog in light air upwind. The hard deck is a plus. Because of its light weight the Stiletto feels like a big beach cat. 

Not many Viva's or Warriors around.

 

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56 minutes ago, GC Sailor said:

Viva is a much faster boat, well designed and engineered. A vary large sail plan, needs experienced crew in heavy winds. It folds so not too difficult to trailer once you get the hang of it. Heavier than the Stiletto, so not as easy to pull up on a beach but can handle big seas better than the light weight full bowed Stiletto. 

Warrior has to be taken apart to trailer, a heavy boat so slower than the Stiletto. Goes to weather better than the Stiletto because of the in-hull dagger boards and finer hull shape.

Stiletto is very light, great boat to pull the bows up on the beach. Put a tent on the trampoline and you have a great cruiser. Fast on a reach or downwind (it planes in heavy air).You get used to the centerline dagger board, the Stiletto goes to weather just fine as long as you don't pinch. Except for real light air, it is a dog in light air upwind. The hard deck is a plus. Because of its light weight the Stiletto feels like a big beach cat. 

Not many Viva's or Warriors around.

One thing that concerns me about the Stiletto is the "fighter jet" hatches.  Seems a bit risky and might not secure enough to prevent flooding the hulls in the event of a capsize.  I've seen several photos on the net of a capsized Stiletto, the hulls at least partially filled with water and the hatches open or missing.  Has anyone seen any way to improve these hatches?

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I used to own the Suares VIVA and I suspect Rasputin22 knows the boat. I sold her to Calif and I believe she is now known as AVALON DARLIN. The V is a powerful scary machine. That said, this boat, the Granger modified Stiletto, is even more powerful and scary, and if I had the dosh I'd buy in a NY second:

If the link doesn't work let me know

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1701502173212658&id=100000586761335

 

 

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5 hours ago, Max Rockatansky said:

I used to own the Suares VIVA and I suspect Rasputin22 knows the boat. I sold her to Calif and I believe she is now known as AVALON DARLIN. The V is a powerful scary machine. That said, this boat, the Granger modified Stiletto, is even more powerful and scary, and if I had the dosh I'd buy in a NY second:

If the link doesn't work let me know

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1701502173212658&id=100000586761335

 

 

I knew the Dr, and I know who saved his Viva after he passed. And now I know who Max is. But I'm still trying to work out who Rasputin is...someone I knew from mid 80 s new Orleans beach cat racing/sailboats south/Colin clark scene...

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lakepee,

     You said the name of "He Whose Name Should Never Be Spoken". The Voldemort of the New Orleans Beach Cat (and bigger) scene. 

    Oh well, his name has been spoken, I may as well add tribute. RIP

RIP Collin,,,

 

John Collin Clark III of Ponchatoula entered into rest at his home on August 31, 2013 surrounded by his loving wife and family. He was 60 years old and was the second of six children of Beverly Lafaye Clark and John Collin Clark Jr. He was born on February 2, 1953 in New Orleans where he grew up and formed his many life loves. Collin married his wife Kathy Kirkland in 1999 and lived in Ponchatoula until they moved to Belize in 2000 then back to Ponchatoula in 2005. Collin was a devoted Catholic, husband, brother, uncle, godfather, paw paw, and friend. He will be dearly missed by all. After his Lord Jesus, family and friends he was a lifelong sailor and entrepreneur. Collin’s love for sailing started at the young age of 8 when his Dad bought a 12′ Styrofoam sailboat for him and his siblings to sail on Bayou St. John. That love of the wind and water continued with youth sailing lessons, the family sailboat, Sirius followed by five decades of competitive and leisure sailing from the Chesapeake Bay Stiletto Nationals, the historical Gulfport to Pensacola race, and many more regattas to his leisure trips including one from Pascagoula to Belize. Collin’s entrepreneurial spirit began with selling corn and monkey grass to Bancroft Drive neighbors followed by Clarks Catamarans, the first New Orleans Hobie Cat dealer and the only one in Louisiana. His sailing business expanded to Sailboats South, a sailing business including monohulls, windsurfers, boat rentals, sailing lessons, and much more. His boat businesses transformed into international and domestic residential developments from Ponchatoula to San Pedro, Belize Central America. He is preceded in death by his father John Collin Clark Jr. and mother Beverly Lafaye Clark and his brother Thomas O’Neill Clark. He is survived by his wife Kathy Kirkland Clark, sister Emery Clark (Ralph), brothers Byron Clark (Jennifer), Berkery Clark (Lynn), and Edward Clark (Angela), nieces Emery Whalen, Kingsley Clark, Victoria Clark, and Camille Clark, nephews Rafe Whalen, Byron Clark, Thomas O’Neill Clark II, and John James “Jack” Clark, stepdaughter Margaux Lenior Vourvoulias, son in-law George Vourvoulias III, and grandchildren George and Gwyneth Vourvoulias.
Published in The New Orleans Times-Picayune September 4, 2013

    He was the original 'Wild and Crazy Guy".

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I owned a Warrior cat and It was a sweet boat. Easy to singlehand and really fun to sail. It was a lot of work to put together and take apart, not something to do frequently. Heavier than the Stiletto or Viva, but more rugged I think. Did some pretty long cruises and lived aboard. Slept on the tramp mostly. It looks a bit under canvased by today's standards, but did sail well in light air. I guess you could add a square-top main. Saw one for sale in Florida, just did a web search. $17,500 I think it was, about what one cost new in the '70's. 

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