strider470

Luna Rossa Challenge. AC 36

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Here's another great interview, this time with Max Sirena. From bowman to Team Director and skipper of LR, he won 2 AC : one with OTUSA with JS and RC with the trimaran (he was head of sail design) and one with GD and ETNZ. He talks about how he started in the Cup: he helped assembling America Cube just bought by Bertelli to start the first Luna Rossa campaign.   .Then he talks about America's Cup and AC75, here what he says :

( I will only report his words and signal every time it's me commenting) .

 

- LR strongly wanted the upwind start to make the pre-start circling crucial again (ETNZ wasn't so sure about it). They are developing a very advanced software to help them in this fase. 

- They train with a speedboat that can "clone" the same speed and the same acceleration of LR, to simulate the behavior of another AC75.

- With the IACC they tested the boat sailing in a straight line for hours, trying to gain half a node more in speed. AC75 instead need to get "stressed" to be developed. The boat isn't stressed when it's sailing in a straight line, but when performing takeoffs, tacks and jibes. The development of the boat is made primarly doing complex maneuvering at high speed, not in straight line speed tests. They do that too, of course, like when they damaged the mast: they were doing a 35km downwind trip.

- About LR failures, he explain that there are two  approach building a boat. You can make the boat "bulletproof", so you are sure anything can't be damaged - but you end up having a very heavy boat - or you build a radical boat at the edge of the project's limits. Since they had time and  wanted to test also the simulator and the building process, they decided to go radical, since there is always time for adding wight, but taking it  away is far more difficult (edit: my personal idea is that they started with foils so small for the same reason, to learn sailing the boat with the most difficult - and faster?-  foils aviable. Max doesn't say that, this foil thing it's just my opinion). In order to have the best performances they had to push the boat to the limit. Everything is done with the most precision and accuracy, but you have to take - calculated - risks. Of course they didn't want to break the mast, but they were testing something new, something the boat wasn't 100% ready for, and they needed to have some feedback asap. If you want to win, he explain, you have to take risks. He make two examples: 1) with ETNZ they broke the foils one month before the start of the Louis Vuitton Cup. 2) When he was head of sails design with OTUSA they developed the famous wing sail of the trimaran because they broke the "traditional" mast. The wing sail was ready, but it was so huge, so complex and so new that they initially decided against using it and to go with the normal sails. One day performing a test (he says that it was a very similar test to the one they were performing when they broke LR mast) they destroyed the mast in 3 pieces. So they went with the wing-sail, and he says that without it Alinghi 99% had won the Cup. 

-  Getting information from / spy the competitors is very important, but you have to stay focused on your design ideas. They changed 48 hull models on the simulator before starting the building of B1, the first were similar to the Ineos boat. They are very interested about the lenght of the foils and of the rudder of the competitors, because the lenght of the rudder can give you incredible speed gains. They watch what the other teams do, but they always have to think if some innovation made by some other team can be useful on their boat.  

- Having Ineos in Cagliari was useful to watch how their team works, their daily routine, to see in how much time they put the boat in the water and how much time they needed to get the boat ready for sailing. They sailed in the same body of water only one time (the famous one) and there were some distance between them, 4-500 m leeward -windward. He says that the sensation was that they were faster, a lot faster, but that wasn't a speed test, it was only 2 boats sailing in the same body of water, so it's not reliable. LR was sailing a lot farther offshore, where there was stronger winds, and that's why they had a smaller headsail. Both AC75s were coming back to their bases. There was the said leeward - windward distance, so it's possible that LR had higher wind pressure, but they were quite happy when they returned to the base. Joking, he add that if he had to choose a boat, he would pick LR without a doubt, and that he thinks that Ineos sailors would take LR too. He expect Ineos B2 to be a lot similar to LR and Te Ahie. 

- Asked by the audience about the speed of the AC75, he confirms 49 knots made with 18 wind knots. 50+ knots will be made easily by the time of the Cup. The great difference with the AC50 is not the top speed, but the average speed. In the famous video where LR is sailing in the  choppy sea, they had 42 knots of average speed for 8/9 minutes with a 24-25 knots Scirocco wind. 

- He confirms that the tactician works before the start.

- LR B2 will be not so different from B1. He expect also ETNZ B2 to be an evolution of B1. 

-  They have some new things ready for B2, they had to show some ideas in B1 (like the hull shape) because even the best simulator can't match the information you get from the real thing, and they needed to test the hull and sails.

- They sail bow down to close the gap with the water and create a ground effect. The shear lines are lower at the bow and at the stern, and higher at the center. This "boomerang" shape helps with the aerodynamics of the boat, allowing for much power in the sails. Sailing bow down (he calls it pitch down) also helps in taking the rudder more out of the water, adding speed. The overheeling attitude create more righting moment and simulate the same effect that some trimaran (he sailed a lot with Frank Cammas) had with the canting rig on the mast. It gives a lot of power to the boat.

- The LR TP52 campaign was not so great, he thinks that maybe they made a mistake to partecipate because they were all thinking at the America's Cup.

- Weight is crucial. Taking 30 kg off the boat you can gain up to 1 knot of speed. Every sailor must stay on a target weight, and they have different crew combination based on their weight. Helmsmen (I noted he used the plural) and mainsail trimmer are on a stricly diet to loose weight to allow more freedom of crew combinations.

- One of the top speed he can talk about is 50 knots made with 18 knots of wind. He says that anyway AC 72 were a lot more difficult to sail, since there were less instruments to control the boat.

- The most "dangerous" situation for the AC75 is jibing downwind, because in order to avoid the keel to touch the water during the manoeuver they raise up the boat. They don't clos the gap between the keel and the sea anymore. Doing this you can stall the rudder during the rotation. He says that that's how ETNZ capsized in the famous episode, and that Ineos also did that. They didn't do it with B1 (although they went near) but did it with Little Moon.

- The top of the mainsail have a sort of airbag that increase the buoyancy, so if the boat capsize it helps a lot.

- The double mainsail is now so advanced that it's as good as the wing-sail in terms of performance, but a lot easier to manage logistically.

- It was LR idea to use the cyclors on the AC50. They bring it to ETNZ when LR retired.

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Fantastic, thank you @Zaal, one of the best things I've read regarding this cup. Really appreciate the post! 

This will be an interesting competition, LR certainly sounds legit if MS is to be believed. Would be great for Italy if they can pull it off.

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@Tornado-Cat

So now that Max Sirena is on record as saying:

- They sail bow down to close the gap with the water and create a ground effect. The shear lines are lower at the bow and at the stern, and higher at the center. This "boomerang" shape helps with the aerodynamics of the boat, allowing for much power in the sails. Sailing bow down (he calls it pitch down) also helps in taking the rudder more out of the water, adding speed. The overheeling attitude create more righting moment and simulate the same effect that some trimaran (he sailed a lot with Frank Cammas) had with the canting rig on the mast. It gives a lot of power to the boat.

Do you still deny that Bow Down or Windward Heel is NOT a thing? Or is Max Sirena not a credible source? Not Involved enough? Or just that this is not your opinion?

Riddle and Twist your way out of that one!

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6 minutes ago, Boink said:

@Tornado-Cat

So now that Max Sirena is on record as saying:

- They sail bow down to close the gap with the water and create a ground effect. The shear lines are lower at the bow and at the stern, and higher at the center. This "boomerang" shape helps with the aerodynamics of the boat, allowing for much power in the sails. Sailing bow down (he calls it pitch down) also helps in taking the rudder more out of the water, adding speed. The overheeling attitude create more righting moment and simulate the same effect that some trimaran (he sailed a lot with Frank Cammas) had with the canting rig on the mast. It gives a lot of power to the boat.

Do you still deny that Bow Down or Windward Heel is NOT a thing? Or is Max Sirena not a credible source? Not Involved enough? Or just that this is not your opinion?

Riddle and Twist your way out of that one!

Guaranteed - the troll infamously stated that LR wasn't even an end plating hull, and has never acknowledged a simple error, just doubled down nonsensical flailing.

Just pop on ignore and problem solved! :-) 

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1 hour ago, Boink said:

@Tornado-Cat

So now that Max Sirena is on record as saying:

- They sail bow down to close the gap with the water and create a ground effect. The shear lines are lower at the bow and at the stern, and higher at the center. This "boomerang" shape helps with the aerodynamics of the boat, allowing for much power in the sails. Sailing bow down (he calls it pitch down) also helps in taking the rudder more out of the water, adding speed. The overheeling attitude create more righting moment and simulate the same effect that some trimaran (he sailed a lot with Frank Cammas) had with the canting rig on the mast. It gives a lot of power to the boat.

Do you still deny that Bow Down or Windward Heel is NOT a thing? Or is Max Sirena not a credible source? Not Involved enough? Or just that this is not your opinion?

Riddle and Twist your way out of that one!

You newb ? Do you really are dumb enough to believe all what the AC teams tell ? have you seen this photo ? bow down and ww heel ? eh...

 

Capture.PNG

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1 hour ago, rh3000 said:

Guaranteed - the troll infamously stated that LR wasn't even an end plating hull, and has never acknowledged a simple error, just doubled down nonsensical flailing.

Just pop on ignore and problem solved! :-) 

rhidiot, you are the one that claimed that LR was endplating whatever the altitude because they have an endplating hull ?

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2 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

You newb ? Do you really are dumb enough to believe all what the AC teams tell ? 

Everyone is a Newb compared to a Dinosaur like you.

You are Blind, Hairy Palmed, Toothless, Trades on past (ancient) glories (that no one gives a shit about......) and mostly wrong.

How's you understanding of Cavitation and Ventilation going? Still Struggling Dino?????

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1 hour ago, Boink said:

You are Blind, Hairy Palmed, Toothless, Trades on past (ancient) glories (that no one gives a shit about......) and mostly wrong.

 

Well, I found on facebook one of your selfie :)

 

1515083979_blobfish.jpg

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43 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Well, I found on facebook one of your selfie :)

 

1515083979_blobfish.jpg

Handsome Devil

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10 hours ago, Zaal said:

 

 

Here's another great interview, this time with Max Sirena. From bowman to Team Director and skipper of LR, he won 2 AC : one with OTUSA with JS and RC with the trimaran (he was head of sail design) and one with GD and ETNZ. He talks about how he started in the Cup: he helped assembling America Cube just bought by Bertelli to start the first Luna Rossa campaign.   .Then he talks about America's Cup and AC75, here what he says :

( I will only report his words and signal every time it's me commenting) .

 

- LR strongly wanted the upwind start to make the pre-start circling crucial again (ETNZ wasn't so sure about it). They are developing a very advanced software to help them in this fase. 

- They train with a speedboat that can "clone" the same speed and the same acceleration of LR, to simulate the behavior of another AC75.

- With the IACC they tested the boat sailing in a straight line for hours, trying to gain half a node more in speed. AC75 instead need to get "stressed" to be developed. The boat isn't stressed when it's sailing in a straight line, but when performing takeoffs, tacks and jibes. The development of the boat is made primarly doing complex maneuvering at high speed, not in straight line speed tests. They do that too, of course, like when they damaged the mast: they were doing a 35km downwind trip.

- About LR failures, he explain that there are two  approach building a boat. You can make the boat "bulletproof", so you are sure anything can't be damaged - but you end up having a very heavy boat - or you build a radical boat at the edge of the project's limits. Since they had time and  wanted to test also the simulator and the building process, they decided to go radical, since there is always time for adding wight, but taking it  away is far more difficult (edit: my personal idea is that they started with foils so small for the same reason, to learn sailing the boat with the most difficult - and faster?-  foils aviable. Max doesn't say that, this foil thing it's just my opinion). In order to have the best performances they had to push the boat to the limit. Everything is done with the most precision and accuracy, but you have to take - calculated - risks. Of course they didn't want to break the mast, but they were testing something new, something the boat wasn't 100% ready for, and they needed to have some feedback asap. If you want to win, he explain, you have to take risks. He make two examples: 1) with ETNZ they broke the foils one month before the start of the Louis Vuitton Cup. 2) When he was head of sails design with OTUSA they developed the famous wing sail of the trimaran because they broke the "traditional" mast. The wing sail was ready, but it was so huge, so complex and so new that they initially decided against using it and to go with the normal sails. One day performing a test (he says that it was a very similar test to the one they were performing when they broke LR mast) they destroyed the mast in 3 pieces. So they went with the wing-sail, and he says that without it Alinghi 99% had won the Cup. 

-  Getting information from / spy the competitors is very important, but you have to stay focused on your design ideas. They changed 48 hull models on the simulator before starting the building of B1, the first were similar to the Ineos boat. They are very interested about the lenght of the foils and of the rudder of the competitors, because the lenght of the rudder can give you incredible speed gains. They watch what the other teams do, but they always have to think if some innovation made by some other team can be useful on their boat.  

- Having Ineos in Cagliari was useful to watch how their team works, their daily routine, to see in how much time they put the boat in the water and how much time they needed to get the boat ready for sailing. They sailed in the same body of water only one time (the famous one) and there were some distance between them, 4-500 m leeward -windward. He says that the sensation was that they were faster, a lot faster, but that wasn't a speed test, it was only 2 boats sailing in the same body of water, so it's not reliable. LR was sailing a lot farther offshore, where there was stronger winds, and that's why they had a smaller headsail. Both AC75s were coming back to their bases. There was the said leeward - windward distance, so it's possible that LR had higher wind pressure, but they were quite happy when they returned to the base. Joking, he add that if he had to choose a boat, he would pick LR without a doubt, and that he thinks that Ineos sailors would take LR too. He expect Ineos B2 to be a lot similar to LR and Te Ahie. 

- Asked by the audience about the speed of the AC75, he confirms 49 knots made with 18 wind knots. 50+ knots will be made easily by the time of the Cup. The great difference with the AC50 is not the top speed, but the average speed. In the famous video where LR is sailing in the  choppy sea, they had 42 knots of average speed for 8/9 minutes with a 24-25 knots Scirocco wind. 

- He confirms that the tactician works before the start.

- LR B2 will be not so different from B1. He expect also ETNZ B2 to be an evolution of B1. 

-  They have some new things ready for B2, they had to show some ideas in B1 (like the hull shape) because even the best simulator can't match the information you get from the real thing, and they needed to test the hull and sails.

- They sail bow down to close the gap with the water and create a ground effect. The shear lines are lower at the bow and at the stern, and higher at the center. This "boomerang" shape helps with the aerodynamics of the boat, allowing for much power in the sails. Sailing bow down (he calls it pitch down) also helps in taking the rudder more out of the water, adding speed. The overheeling attitude create more righting moment and simulate the same effect that some trimaran (he sailed a lot with Frank Cammas) had with the canting rig on the mast. It gives a lot of power to the boat.

- The LR TP52 campaign was not so great, he thinks that maybe they made a mistake to partecipate because they were all thinking at the America's Cup.

- Weight is crucial. Taking 30 kg off the boat you can gain up to 1 knot of speed. Every sailor must stay on a target weight, and they have different crew combination based on their weight. Helmsmen (I noted he used the plural) and mainsail trimmer are on a stricly diet to loose weight to allow more freedom of crew combinations.

- One of the top speed he can talk about is 50 knots made with 18 knots of wind. He says that anyway AC 72 were a lot more difficult to sail, since there were less instruments to control the boat.

- The most "dangerous" situation for the AC75 is jibing downwind, because in order to avoid the keel to touch the water during the manoeuver they raise up the boat. They don't clos the gap between the keel and the sea anymore. Doing this you can stall the rudder during the rotation. He says that that's how ETNZ capsized in the famous episode, and that Ineos also did that. They didn't do it with B1 (although they went near) but did it with Little Moon.

- The top of the mainsail have a sort of airbag that increase the buoyancy, so if the boat capsize it helps a lot.

- The double mainsail is now so advanced that it's as good as the wing-sail in terms of performance, but a lot easier to manage logistically.

- It was LR idea to use the cyclors on the AC50. They bring it to ETNZ when LR retired.

Interesting last note... B)

wonder what else they brought? 

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5 hours ago, Boink said:

Handsome Devil

Blah blah blah, don't feed the troll

 

300px-Pseudointellectual_BS_degree.jpg

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11 hours ago, Zaal said:

- Weight is crucial. Taking 30 kg off the boat you can gain up to 1 knot of speed. Every sailor must stay on a target weight, and they have different crew combination based on their weight. Helmsmen (I noted he used the plural) and mainsail trimmer are on a stricly diet to loose weight to allow more freedom of crew combinations.

Jimmy be hungry...

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1 hour ago, barfy said:

Jimmy be hungry...

I always wondered why he was so muscled up in Bermuda, when they were telling Langford to lose weight.

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14 hours ago, buckdouger said:

Not quite understanding what is going on with the camber of the two sails, maybe a manouever given the crew bracing. Screenshot_20200809-112617.thumb.png.f8778878efdf54328b22404d809b46c7.png

That's gotta be a tack.

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On 8/9/2020 at 11:13 AM, Tornado-Cat said:

You newb ? Do you really are dumb enough to believe all what the AC teams tell ? have you seen this photo ? bow down and ww heel ? eh...

Yes Mr.Fossil/Dinosaur, I do believe both what I see and some of what I read.

When Max Sirena confirms additional power by sailing with small amounts of Windward Heel, that is widely witnessed by all the teams, then I suggest it is time to lay down your weapons on this fight.......

With thanks to @Lickindip I just wanted to post some of his fine work to reiterate the small amounts of Windward heel that Max Sirena was referring to.

 

 

image.png.aaa41015e192b2216ed1c8bc034b2f38.png

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that 7.76 degrees is the difference between hull level and my approx guess at the straight part of the foil arm ... nothing to do with overall heal (trying to find out if AM have their foil rotated at a different angle to 'fly lower, with increased RM')

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22 hours ago, Lickindip said:

that 7.76 degrees is the difference between hull level and my approx guess at the straight part of the foil arm ... nothing to do with overall heal (trying to find out if AM have their foil rotated at a different angle to 'fly lower, with increased RM')

Was not suggesting in any way that the windward heel was that angle.

It was merely a great shot of Luna Rossa in Windward Heel mode - published around the same time that Max Sirena had referenced such activity in his interview as being a power mode. 

But if you would like to attempt to measure the deck heel to horizon angle - I would not be surprised to hear of 4-5 degrees of actual heel. ;)

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8 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Lick, what’s your take on it? 

now I'm beginning to think I'm useful around here :lol: ... GD, I'm awaiting your private message to join the crew (happy to work from home but will expect to tag along in a chase boat at some point)

I can't do much with those as they are no-where near square on (I'm sure there is a way I could stretch the foil box if I new the angle of the boat but that's to much thinking after 1/2 a bottle of bourbon last night)

to the naked eye, it looks to be a copy of ETNZ's first generation. not a bad fall back position to at least have something that resembles your biggest competition.

I'm actually more interested in the rudder ... from this view/angle they seem on a very differet trajectory to NYYC

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5 hours ago, buckdouger said:

New foils? Including bulbless?

That'll throw a wrench into the"all boats will converge with everyone wearing a bulb" crowd. No flat foils, it's very interesting all teams still shake and baking the different basic designs. Let alone the details not visible.

If any of the research ever makes the public domain foil design will enjoy a quantum leap.

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how much of the bulbless foil  is playing the checkers game

and how much is playing the chess game

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22 minutes ago, barfy said:

^ recent?

no, that is Te Aihe at its Launch - see the Champagne device on the Bowsprit?

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2 hours ago, Boink said:

no, that is Te Aihe at its Launch - see the Champagne device on the Bowsprit?

Good eye

Edit: looked a little official with the lights and camera crew

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B2  being readied for painting, will be splashed in AKL. But B1 will be sent by ship leaving on Sept 10, according to Corriere della Sera

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17 hours ago, Boink said:

no, that is Te Aihe at its Launch - see the Champagne device on the Bowsprit?

Wrong sir,  they bust a bottle every day.  It's what the whole leaked docs about malfeasance were about.  

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3 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

They claim touching 49 knots.

Interesting use of the word claim..

 

if only there was an accurate way of measuring speed? 

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1 minute ago, JALhazmat said:

Interesting use of the word claim..

 

if only there was an accurate way of measuring speed? 

49 knots sounds about right

 

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4 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

They claim touching 49 knots.

Yes, Max talked about 49/50 knots made with 18 wind knots. 

Interesting that they seems to confirm the double helmsmen set up (without Max saying it clearly though) but they don’t talk about the fligh-controller.. maybe JS and Bruni will switch that role? Or maybe there won’t be a flight controller ? Max talked about a system that helps flying the boat, adjusting the flaps of the foils automatically (but I have to double check this, this aren’t his precise words). He said also that this is a system developed by LR and that some Imoca teams are asking for a version of it (he was asked what technology developed for the AC75 could be used on other boats in the near future).

By the way, Max talked breafly at the news today, he said only that they have 3 weeks of hard work and then they will go to AKL.

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1 hour ago, Zaal said:

Yes, Max talked about 49/50 knots made with 18 wind knots. 

Interesting that they seems to confirm the double helmsmen set up (without Max saying it clearly though) but they don’t talk about the fligh-controller.. maybe JS and Bruni will switch that role? Or maybe there won’t be a flight controller ? Max talked about a system that helps flying the boat, adjusting the flaps of the foils automatically (but I have to double check this, this aren’t his precise words). He said also that this is a system developed by LR and that some Imoca teams are asking for a version of it (he was asked what technology developed for the AC75 could be used on other boats in the near future).

By the way, Max talked breafly at the news today, he said only that they have 3 weeks of hard work and then they will go to AKL.

When one helmsman is at the wheel, the other can serve as a tactician.

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10 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

When one helmsman is at the wheel, the other can serve as a tactician.

But they already talked about pre-start tactician only in the interview that zaal translated. So I reckon the leeward helm will be flying or grinding.

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4 hours ago, Zaal said:

Yes, Max talked about 49/50 knots made with 18 wind knots. 

Interesting that they seems to confirm the double helmsmen set up (without Max saying it clearly though) but they don’t talk about the fligh-controller.. maybe JS and Bruni will switch that role? Or maybe there won’t be a flight controller ? Max talked about a system that helps flying the boat, adjusting the flaps of the foils automatically (but I have to double check this, this aren’t his precise words). He said also that this is a system developed by LR and that some Imoca teams are asking for a version of it (he was asked what technology developed for the AC75 could be used on other boats in the near future).

By the way, Max talked breafly at the news today, he said only that they have 3 weeks of hard work and then they will go to AKL.

Yes we always suspected 50 knots would be achievable and the use of an automatic flight controller sounds interesting? I wonder how long it will take for them to be on the water in NZ if they are leaving in 3 weeks?  Conjecture will really start when the Italians and the Poms are sailing on the HG..!

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8 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Yes we always suspected 50 knots would be achievable and the use of an automatic flight controller sounds interesting? I wonder how long it will take for them to be on the water in NZ if they are leaving in 3 weeks?  Conjecture will really start when the Italians and the Poms are sailing on the HG..!

If Auckland does go L4 maybe smart money would drop the boat off in whangerai and sail up there in L3. It would be less than an hour for etnz or AM to cruise up there as well. As Terry H said the other day, this cycle has the added hurdle of working around the evil bug.

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Or Tauranga.

Most likely the transporter ship is going there. They also have everything close together. Whangarei would have to have all the boats at Marsden Cove

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LR tent city underway as of yesterday. Such a pity we aren't going to have anything like the Renzo Piano palazzo.....

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1 hour ago, AKL wino said:

LR tent city underway as of yesterday. Such a pity we aren't going to have anything like the Renzo Piano palazzo.....

The city turned down Prada’s architectural plan for the RP Palazzo, right? 
 

Anyway, yes too bad. 

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11 hours ago, barfy said:

If Auckland does go L4 maybe smart money would drop the boat off in whangerai and sail up there in L3. It would be less than an hour for etnz or AM to cruise up there as well.

Not sure when Core starts sea trials for the NZ SailGP team's new boat but that would we an interesting situation. Perhaps we really could see an F50 and AC75 in close proximity as fantasised about earlier.

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1 hour ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

Not sure when Core starts sea trials for the NZ SailGP team's new boat but that would we an interesting situation. Perhaps we really could see an F50 and AC75 in close proximity as fantasised about earlier.

Make it easy for Pete and Blair. FailGP boat in the morn, AC boat in the arvo.

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32 minutes ago, barfy said:

Make it easy for Pete and Blair. FailGP boat in the morn, AC boat in the arvo.

That's unlikely to happen - their priority must surely be AC36 between now and 6th March '21?

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2 hours ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

Not sure when Core starts sea trials for the NZ SailGP team's new boat but that would we an interesting situation. Perhaps we really could see an F50 and AC75 in close proximity as fantasised about earlier.

Core do their testing off Whangarei historically.

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14 minutes ago, JJD said:

Core do their testing off Whangarei historically.

Perfect, get these AC75’s up there to compete, to try get some global Sail TV attention.

:D 

 

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34 minutes ago, JJD said:

Core do their testing off Whangarei historically.

Which was my point. As mentioned up thread, Whangarei is being suggested as an alternative AC75 training ground to a locked-down Auckland. Seriously doubt it would happen but fun to imagine.

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59 minutes ago, JJD said:

Core do their testing off Whangarei historically.

Biggish north east swell in Bream Bay yesterday. Would have been fun to watch.

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7 hours ago, AKL wino said:

LR tent city underway as of yesterday. Such a pity we aren't going to have anything like the Renzo Piano palazzo.....

I'm pretty fucking pissed at the Auckland council for this.  

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41 minutes ago, I ride bikes said:

I'm pretty fucking pissed at the Auckland council for this.  

Why is the Auckland City Council at fault for the Handbags building a Yurt instead of a Taj Mahal.

 

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i guess the connotations are that it will all become yet more back hander developer built high rise accommodations ,

rather than another nice rec area on the water front

and i agree with him

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https://www.yachtingworld.com/americas-cup/ineos-team-uk-grinder-david-freddie-carr-interview-ac75-sailing-127246

 

Ineos will have a different crew approach than LR, according to David Carr, Ineos grinder. One helmsman and tactician on board. He doesn’t mention a flight controller. There’s no much space in the UK boat to switch side for helmsman, tactician and trimmer.

I think LR firmly believe in Totally closing the sail/hull gap, and maybe this boats are so fast that you can’t loose that 3/4 seconds swapping side during manoeuvres.

We’ll see :) 

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2 hours ago, Zaal said:

https://www.yachtingworld.com/americas-cup/ineos-team-uk-grinder-david-freddie-carr-interview-ac75-sailing-127246

 

Ineos will have a different crew approach than LR, according to David Carr, Ineos grinder. One helmsman and tactician on board. He doesn’t mention a flight controller. There’s no much space in the UK boat to switch side for helmsman, tactician and trimmer.

I think LR firmly believe in Totally closing the sail/hull gap, and maybe this boats are so fast that you can’t loose that 3/4 seconds swapping side during manoeuvres.

We’ll see :) 

Pretty sure Leigh MacMillan is flight controller for INEOS and the article mentions Ian Jensen as wing trimmer so they have the usual 3 positions filled. Given this I would assume Giles is grinding whilst in the tactician role otherwise he's 'dead weight' from a power perspective.

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2 hours ago, Zaal said:

https://www.yachtingworld.com/americas-cup/ineos-team-uk-grinder-david-freddie-carr-interview-ac75-sailing-127246

 

Ineos will have a different crew approach than LR, according to David Carr, Ineos grinder. One helmsman and tactician on board. He doesn’t mention a flight controller. There’s no much space in the UK boat to switch side for helmsman, tactician and trimmer.

I think LR firmly believe in Totally closing the sail/hull gap, and maybe this boats are so fast that you can’t loose that 3/4 seconds swapping side during manoeuvres.

We’ll see :) 

all teams are running deck sweepers, what gap is there left to close that LR are doing that the others aren't?

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9 hours ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

Which was my point. As mentioned up thread, Whangarei is being suggested as an alternative AC75 training ground to a locked-down Auckland. Seriously doubt it would happen but fun to imagine.

Which was my point to your point.

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2 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

all teams are running deck sweepers, what gap is there left to close that LR are doing that the others aren't?

You are right. What I wanted to say is that maybe the 2 helmsmen setup was designed because of the closed sail /hull gap. From what I heard in the interviews, the gap must be closed not only to achieve the best performance but also to avoid turbolence of the wind in the aisle between the headsail and the mainsail. That’s why all the boats have - sorry, I don’t know the precise world - those little white things attached to the low part of the mainsail to see the wind flow. They look at those (again, sorry) things by the leeward side to check for the correct wind flow. 

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Since not much is going on these days, here is an interesting documentary excerpt showing the loading procedure for cargo on the AN225. 

 

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6 hours ago, Zaal said:
6 hours ago, Zaal said:

 That’s why all the boats have - sorry, I don’t know the precise world - those little white things attached to the low part of the mainsail to see the wind flow.

 

The tell - tales. Finally found it, sorry guys ! 

MS, Bruni, Vascotto, they all tells how important is to control the “vortex” of wind that it is created in that aisle between the sails. 

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Is the “false floor”(?) a novelty? Purpose - sail cutting perhaps?

 

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21 hours ago, I ride bikes said:

I'm pretty fucking pissed at the Auckland council for this.  

Not to worry.  The unscathed platform will still be in place four years from now and ready for LR's next joust at the Cup

Should give LR time to negotiate with the council to construct a more inspiring HQ,

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1 hour ago, Xlot said:

Is the “false floor”(?) a novelty? Purpose - sail cutting perhaps?

 

Floor is just plywood panels gets you off the concrete basically.

Not so sure the AC75 sails would be cut or recut onsite most probably made by robots in Taiwan.

vertical-glass-wall-3-700x525.jpg.f1512740077312adef927dada6dfab3a.jpg

 

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6 hours ago, Xlot said:

Is the “false floor”(?) a novelty? Purpose - sail cutting perhaps?

 

Roof?

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7 hours ago, Xlot said:

Is the “false floor”(?) a novelty? Purpose - sail cutting perhaps?

I was thinking sail loft myself.

 

7 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Progress at the Handbags base.

Thats one fucking expensive tent foundation.

Such a shame the Govt & Council didn't have the 'vision' to invest in that fucking huge Waterworld island :rolleyes:

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2 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

Have North sails moved the entire Minden facility out to Taiwan? 

If you think those mainsails see scissors and threads I cannot help you.

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29 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

If you think those mainsails see scissors and threads I cannot help you.

If you think the 3di sails are produced in Taiwan I can’t help you either... 

one of us has been to the North loft that builds them and it didn’t involve getting a visa for Taiwan. 
 

the loft in Sri Lanka only builds for boats 50ft and under, Minden Nevada does the Superyacht, grand prix and AC 
 

And yes they do see needle and thread on occasion too hence all the teams having full time sailmakers to adjust tweak and maintain.

 

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10 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Progress at the Handbags base.

This looks so familiar when you had the chance to tour a base in SF during AC 34. Containers and tents. Compare this with AC32 for example... sigh, pinnacle of the sport, yes.

OTOH, all it needs is two yachts, some buoys and officials, a WW/LW and a triangle course :D

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^ But not just any old officials please, certainly no Swiss :o and the Aussie could stay home too as far as I'm concerned - so decent officials with no horse in this race, any recommendations Rennie??

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7 minutes ago, nav said:

^ But not just any old officials please, certainly no Swiss :o and the Aussie could stay home too as far as I'm concerned - so decent officials with no horse in this race, any recommendations Rennie??

Haha, oh my! How could I know?!
Although I'm still a bit of a fan of Harold Bennett., the 52 Super Series team is not that bad either, younger and headed by a woman,  Maria Torrijo Moll, as PRO.

But also here, one might assume that the DoG allows that they can be the race officials of the defending club: "(...) These ocean courses shall be practicable in all parts for vessels of twenty-two feet draught of water, and shall be selected by the Club holding the Cup; and these races shall be sailed subject to its rules and sailing regulations so far as the same do not conflict with the provisions of this deed of gift (...)"

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Iain Murray is one of nav’s favorite people to hate on. 

Apparently GD, ETNZ and RNZYS like him, regardless. :D 

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9 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Here the translation: 
 

- In September they’ll go to AKL, they don’t know the exact date yet

- About his role, he confirms that they tried a lot the double helmsmen configuration, but they’ll confirm it / change it later

- AC75 are incredible boats, capable of 50+ knots of speed, so the event will be great to watch

 

 

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3 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Iain Murray is one of nav’s favorite people to hate on. 

Apparently GD, ETNZ and RNZYS like him, regardless. :D 

He's a good bloke, for an Australian.

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20 hours ago, Priscilla said:

If you think those mainsails see scissors and threads I cannot help you.

There are about 15/20 sailmakers who have all put in some very long hours over the past year and it definitely involved a lot of scissors and threads.

The teams will receive the blanks from North (Doyle/Quantum for Magic) but they still need to cut the final shape and add corners, tapes, luff sleeves, boltropes etc. Plus there will have been a LOT of recuts with the new twin-skin development and just the usual ongoing optimisation.

 

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20 minutes ago, NZK said:

There are about 15/20 sailmakers who have all put in some very long hours over the past year and it definitely involved a lot of scissors and threads.

The teams will receive the blanks from North (Doyle/Quantum for Magic) but they still need to cut the final shape and add corners, tapes, luff sleeves, boltropes etc. Plus there will have been a LOT of recuts with the new twin-skin development and just the usual ongoing optimisation.

 

Thanks for that as I have little knowledge as to how much of an active sail loft these new fangled flying machines require.

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12 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

Haha, oh my! How could I know?!
Although I'm still a bit of a fan of Harold Bennett., the 52 Super Series team is not that bad either, younger and headed by a woman,  Maria Torrijo Moll, as PRO.

But also here, one might assume that the DoG allows that they can be the race officials of the defending club: "(...) These ocean courses shall be practicable in all parts for vessels of twenty-two feet draught of water, and shall be selected by the Club holding the Cup; and these races shall be sailed subject to its rules and sailing regulations so far as the same do not conflict with the provisions of this deed of gift (...)"

There you go, a great suggestion right off the bat.

AFAIK the Protocol places no restrictions on the nationality of officials, after all they are trained/expected to act as neutrals, so maybe it's just an insult to the cadre to suggest picking officials from countries not represented by the competitors. (But then there's Olympic Ice Skating! :lol:). Harold certainly deserves a place of honour for his actions in AC33. But younger and as diverse as possible is a good call.

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10 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

He's a good bloke, for an Australian.

He has a tough job when you think about it. 4 multi million dollar teams, giant ego's and the sooking Italians to deal with. Would you want it? 

That aside Iain is a great guy and the perfect man for the job. Someone has to do it. For an Australian??? LOL. That's not like you SBD......:D

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