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RING RING RING RING JS "um...cia... errr... pronto!" RC "Jimmy, it's me" JS "Who?" RC "Me mate, your old boss" JS "Fuck you Kiwis all sound the same to me mate, and I've

New Max Sirena interview by Bacci del Buono and Mario Giuffrè for Giornale della Vela. It's a really long interview, almost 2 hours, Max as always is very straight and open to talk about nearly everyt

https://farevela.net/2020/06/03/americas-cup-che-coppa-sara-diretta-4-giugno-2130-ospiti-bruni-e-vascotto-commento-tecnico-dalbertas-pinucci/ Since there are not so much news in these days, here'

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14 hours ago, 17mika said:

yep it looks so. I was hoping that Prada would bring some kind of a "new cool" with a bright color, like they did with the silver boats in Frisco...
We'll see tomorrow.

Paint =  weight that can be more usefully employed elsewhere. Ensuring the outer/epoxy/varnish/whatever is UV stabilised has been sufficient on other boats so likely more than enough for a molly–coddled AC hull. ;-)

It also ensures the boat builder makes the outer hull has fair as possible with no filling so more weight saved.

I think vinyl wrap for advertising is not included in the weight of the boat, so covering most of the hull in sponsor wrap is a pretty good alternative to paint.

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3 hours ago, RobG said:

I think vinyl wrap for advertising is not included in the weight of the boat, so covering most of the hull in sponsor wrap is a pretty good alternative to paint.

That doesn't make sense to me, surely you'd want the boat as light as possible?

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Isnt there a rule about the type of finish/paint required. Standard 2 pot? Basically so the teams dont spend mega bucks on surface coating technology (sharkskin texture etc etc)

Thought that's been the running in multiple cups .... oooooooo maybe thats how Oracle came back from 8-1 (dun dun duuuuuuuuuuuunnnnnnn)

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1 minute ago, minimumfuss said:

He'll look lovely sporting a prada handbag

Gratuitous shirt off photos are only gonna attract the homosexuals. Next thing they'll be playing loud music, snorting marching powder, dressing impeccably and being polite and stuff.

Oh wait. That's most Italians. 

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4 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

^^^ Hard to tell exactly what's going on, but there looks to be some interesting treatment in the bow area. Seems to have a dimple and a bulge around the foil arms as well. Looks like another intriguing AC75.

Looking reasonably full in the bow, foil mounts look halfway between the very potruding AM and very recessed ETNZ, yup probably yet another different interpretation.  Can't wait for the full reveal so we can see what the underside looks like.

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Stealing the images direct from that link:

image.thumb.png.5a9c05bb7683f174079e50e09fb81013.png

image.thumb.png.463feba67b8aa163f0848cf3f857e3e1.png

So we have a Kiwi style "keel" to the hull and American Magic style bulbs on foils, (again for modification under the rules?)

Does the forestay seem rather far back anyone else?

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3 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

 

image.thumb.png.463feba67b8aa163f0848cf3f857e3e1.png

So we have a Kiwi style "keel" to the hull and American Magic style bulbs on foils, (again for modification under the rules?)

Does the forestay seem rather far back anyone else?

And the award for the craziest foil design yet goes to the italians, because why not.... 

 

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35 minutes ago, Woolfy said:

That doesn't make sense to me, surely you'd want the boat as light as possible?

Sure, but every kg of paint (and filler) is a kg that can't be used for something else.

7 minutes ago, Lickindip said:

Isnt there a rule about the type of finish/paint required. Standard 2 pot? Basically so the teams dont spend mega bucks on surface coating technology (sharkskin texture etc etc)

 

9.1 Except as permitted in Rules 9.5 and 9.6, the outermost layer of the hull, foils and rudder must be a commercial product approved by the Rules Committee according to Rule 8, who shall only approve paints that are comparable to those on the list provided in Rule 8.6.

 

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2 minutes ago, RobG said:

Sure, but every kg of paint (and filler) is a kg that can't be used for something else.

 

9.1 Except as permitted in Rules 9.5 and 9.6, the outermost layer of the hull, foils and rudder must be a commercial product approved by the Rules Committee according to Rule 8, who shall only approve paints that are comparable to those on the list provided in Rule 8.6.

 

I'm pretty sure the black is just plain carbon that's been given a matte finish, no need to paint it black if it's already black.

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Each foil has to weigh close to 1,000 kg. Presumably LR has put most of that into the bulb, leaving them a lot more leeway on materials and design of the wings. It may also mean they can easily swap wings rather than the whole foil.

There may also be benefits for cavitation, and at least one very knowledgeable and successful hydrofoil builder swears that bulbs are faster than T joints, all else being equal.

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15 minutes ago, Raptorsailor said:

I'm pretty sure the black is just plain carbon that's been given a matte finish, no need to paint it black if it's already black.

Yes. But if you want something other than black (or "carbon grey")…

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Launch is at 2 so assume 30 minutes of waffle before the christening, then speech with a bottle of fizz on the bow, then move waffle?

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57 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

image.thumb.png.5a9c05bb7683f174079e50e09fb81013.png

yysw264457.jpg

Italian is more like a daggerboard in the middle of rather flat bottom and Kiwi's boat has a "rounder" belly. Looks like 3 boats and 3 different designs to me. Waiting for more pics from the Italian.

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12 minutes ago, Lakrass said:

yysw264457.jpg

Italian is more like a daggerboard in the middle of rather flat bottom and Kiwi's boat has a "rounder" belly. Looks like 3 boats and 3 different designs to me. Waiting for more pics from the Italian.

The aggressive anhedral of the foils helps to open up the superposition region where cavitation may be an issue. The tips seem to compensate for this and maybe return some roll stability. 

The keel continues to just in front of the rudder. Doesn't look maneuverable in displacement mode.. wonder what the advantage is. 

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Minor remark: apparently, Italy doesn’t share the US requirement that a painted flag should have the staff side toward the bow. So, on starboard the staff (green) segment is aft - had noticed that on a previous LR boat

 

OTT, I see absolutely nothing that would jusify Max Sirena’s claim they delayed launching by one full month so that the competition wouldn’t copy them ...

 

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Three super-high quality boats launched - amazing effort from these teams interpreting a new rule.

ETNZ are an outlier in respect of their foil design.

AM do not have the bustle - a more aero hull.

It will be really interesting to se the next iteration of these boats.

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6 minutes ago, theParadoxOfThrift said:

Three super-high quality boats launched - amazing effort from these teams interpreting a new rule.

ETNZ are an outlier in respect of their foil design.

AM do not have the bustle - a more aero hull.

It will be really interesting to se the next iteration of these boats.

I would find it even more interesting to see them sail against each others.

 

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24 minutes ago, Herfy said:

I see they have the torpedo foils.  Could have delayed the launch after seeing the AM foils!  They can only splash 6 foils and may have realized the NZ type foil was inferior?

Torpedo not a foil. Can't see the point unless to add some lead ballast or as structural support for the foils.

Do the Italian foils have less area than TNZ and AM. Seems to look like it.

As for hull shape if the aim is to sail the majority or all the race flying, then the Italian hull looks like more drag.

Also surprised that they are not using two different foil designs on either side. With the limit on the total number allowed seems a sensible  choice by TNZ

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*ahem* I'll just leave this here

*hack splutter*

I thought it might be more subtle but didn't pick a sharp ridge like that :blink:

 

I feel that the idea of the central bulge must have been a concept that was shared one way or the other between TNZ & LR.

Maybe from personnel changes or as part of exploring the shapes possible within proposed rules?

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from https://www.sail-world.com/news/222696/Americas-Cup-Luna-Rossa-launch-first-AC75

The Challenger of Record for the 36th America's Cup, Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli has launched their first AC75 in Cagliari, Sardinia.

The hull is a different design treatment than the first two launched by Emirates Team New Zealand and NYYC American Magic. The bow is reminiscent almost of an IACC yacht, with a very soft treatment, however about a third of the way back a crease starts in the hull which appears, from the video to develop into a bustle coming into a skeg-like structure in the centre of the transom, ending just ahead of the rudder.

(contd)

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1 hour ago, Herfy said:

I see they have the torpedo foils.

The work on the Italian bulbs seems much cleaner than that of Defiant's which looked rather rough. May be the Italians have greater skill here? Hard to see any sign of a movable flap on their foils. Are they permitted to rotate the entire wing?

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27 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

What's her name?

Luna Rossa apparently. 

From a Gtran of https://www.gazzetta.it/vela/02-10-2019/coppa-america-varo-luna-rossa-tronchetti-tecnologia-tutta-italiana-3402972766132.shtml?refresh_ce-cp

Punta Ala, Auckland, Cagliari: Luna Rossa number 8, in the fifth America's Cup of the Prada series goes into the water in the early afternoon of Cagliari in the presence of an impetuous Mistral. 

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3 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Luna Rossa apparently. 

From a Gtran of https://www.gazzetta.it/vela/02-10-2019/coppa-america-varo-luna-rossa-tronchetti-tecnologia-tutta-italiana-3402972766132.shtml?refresh_ce-cp

Punta Ala, Auckland, Cagliari: Luna Rossa number 8, in the fifth America's Cup of the Prada series goes into the water in the early afternoon of Cagliari in the presence of an impetuous Mistral. 

Ah, o.k., thanks.
LR8. Good for tradition :wub:

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8 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

we focused more on hydro-dynamism than on aspect of air performance ".

Hydrodynamics - the motion of fluids and the forces acting on solid bodies immersed in fluids.

Does this mean the Italians think the hull will be in the water more than the other teams?

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4 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

we focused more on hydro-dynamism than on aspect of air performance ".

Hydrodynamics - the motion of fluids and the forces acting on solid bodies immersed in fluids.

Does this mean the Italians think the hull will be in the water more than the other teams?

Yes, that caught my eye too, interesting.

Another pic 

luna-rossa-AC75-2019-cagliari_05.jpg

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5 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

we focused more on hydro-dynamism than on aspect of air performance ".

Hydrodynamics - the motion of fluids and the forces acting on solid bodies immersed in fluids.

Does this mean the Italians think the hull will be in the water more than the other teams?

The way I read his comment in italian is that it is about minimizing drag at takeoff, but not sure.

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1 hour ago, DHFiend said:

This will be a very interesting cycle.

Like the first cycle of the IACC when we saw, "short skiffs" (TNZ), "heavy/long/narrow" (USA) and the "aircraft carrier" (ITA).....  

Capture5.PNG.7d232f1f0d69c6af770fa3613850584b.PNGCapture4.PNG.95ddc8c8010cb60bc20a3607b3b3d908.PNG

Looks more like the shape of a tuna than a sardine. 

 

Flipper - Orca - Tuna - TBD*

*(I still like Oil Spill, regardless of shape, for the frackers)

 

 

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1 hour ago, Horn Rock said:

The work on the Italian bulbs seems much cleaner than that of Defiant's which looked rather rough. May be the Italians have greater skill here? Hard to see any sign of a movable flap on their foils. Are they permitted to rotate the entire wing?

Are you sure about that?  The LR foil looks more like a couple of fins stuck onto a symmetrical bulb.  The AM foils look to have a very intentional design that looks more like a bird in flight with flaps.

 

lr foil a.jpg

am foil.jpg

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3 hours ago, theParadoxOfThrift said:

Three super-high quality boats launched - amazing effort from these teams interpreting a new rule.

ETNZ are an outlier in respect of their foil design.

AM do not have the bustle - a more aero hull.

It will be really interesting to se the next iteration of these boats.

AM are the outlier in terms of things that matter.  They're starting to look like they've missed a trick with their hull design.

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2 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

AM are the outlier in terms of things that matter.  They're starting to look like they've missed a trick with their hull design.

Or they plan on it being out of the water more than the other teams.  They could be the ones that figured out the trick.

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