Jump to content

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Varan said:

Whoa, that rudder is way thinner than the dock line, and it has to hold 75' of boat in the air.

Umm, I think you'll find that that is an optical illusion because the lines are much closer to the camera than the rudder.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 7.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

RING RING RING RING JS "um...cia... errr... pronto!" RC "Jimmy, it's me" JS "Who?" RC "Me mate, your old boss" JS "Fuck you Kiwis all sound the same to me mate, and I've

New Max Sirena interview by Bacci del Buono and Mario Giuffrè for Giornale della Vela. It's a really long interview, almost 2 hours, Max as always is very straight and open to talk about nearly everyt

https://farevela.net/2020/06/03/americas-cup-che-coppa-sara-diretta-4-giugno-2130-ospiti-bruni-e-vascotto-commento-tecnico-dalbertas-pinucci/ Since there are not so much news in these days, here'

Posted Images

7 hours ago, Monkey said:

I’m hating the yellow foils. They kill the look of an otherwise pretty boat. I would’ve kept the Pirelli colors, but invert them. Red foils, yellow lettering. 

Not a bad call. Or see if they could get away with just the rudder, it still sticks out a mile.

The matte black looks great but I still think LR missed a trick not going silver or white. We're going to have 4 black (or black + graffiti) boats. Let's hope the Italians can at least lift the game with their uniforms, those are all a dirge on the other boats too.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, buckdouger said:

image.png.41c055a1488e828b49baa7f133ac0d23.png

Flap?

If you mean a separate flap from aileron ala aviation terminology, don't think it's allowed. Otherwise looks pretty small.

15.1 A foil flap must be a linear component connected to a foil wing by a foil system.
15.2 Each foil shall include two foil flaps, one lying entirely on one side of the foil wing symmetry plane, and
one lying entirely on the other side of the foil wing symmetry plane.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, eurochild said:

Not a bad call. Or see if they could get away with just the rudder, it still sticks out a mile.

The matte black looks great but I still think LR missed a trick not going silver or white. We're going to have 4 black (or black + graffiti) boats. Let's hope the Italians can at least lift the game with their uniforms, those are all a dirge on the other boats too.

If looks don't make the boat fast, who gives a fuck??:P

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Chimp too said:

Jesus! Even Luna Rossa can’t make one of these things anything other than butt ugly!!

Ashore they look like beached whales and sailing they look like an AC72s ginger stepchild.

Eye of the beholder I guess, personally I think they look freaking awesome under sail, especially ETNZ with her organic lines.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Boybland said:

Pretty sure the little lumps are some kind of protector, they are not present in other photos. But the fences vary in size dramatically between the two foils.

Wing fences with weight in them. Or structure for the flaps to stay attached. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Boybland said:

Eye of the beholder I guess, personally I think they look freaking awesome under sail, especially ETNZ with her organic lines.

Yeah, I give the prize for design styling to ETNZ - for the first edition boats at least.  Can't wait to see all in the same patch of water.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Lakrass said:

image.png.a892019e5c7544450ea13b4e9c100c8b.png

No fellow anarchist on a boat in the background? In the crowd? Anywhere to get other angles than the one from live coverage?

Anyone going to have a crack a the message the flags are sending?

Back in Hornbower's day I believe ensigns were set challenges to send a message in the least number of flags. With that many up, there could be a whole novel being sent.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Saro Scimitar Sunshine said:

Can anyone see anything on the deck that indicates how the jib will be sheeted on Luna Rossa ? Is that flat rectangle a cover for the launch so we can't see what's there ?

What's the round hole for ?

1.jpg

2.jpg

Probably sheeting just beyond the end of the flush deck, and the hole would be for a hatch...

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Varan said:

Whoa, that rudder is way thinner than the dock line, and it has to hold 75' of boat in the air.

Designed by the same people who did the first foil arm iteration. What could possibly go wrong?

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Hmmm. I don't think there will be a lot of downspeed action in the start box - apart from the old hook, maybe. Displacement mode would be fully fatal against a foiling opponent. Much like the AC50 action I'm picking. Unless these boats can launch onto their foils with relative ease (and we've not seen any indication of that at this stage).

No pinning against the start line if one boat is early?  You very well may be right but then again none of us have seen these boats perform anywhere near what they will have to perform at once race time comes.  I just can't see how getting an opponent off their foils can't be a viable tactic.  

The 3 boats we've seen so far have chosen their hull shapes for a reason.  AM at one end of the spectrum and ETNZ at the other with LR in the middle.  My guess is AM feels as you do with ETNZ, at least with boat 1, feeling different.  Hull shapes of boat 2 will tell the tale.

WetHog  :ph34r:

Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:
Quote

A detail that could prove to be important, for example in pre-start circling , where boats will sail in mixed conditions, of foiling and displacement. When, for example, there is to block the opponent in a downwind engagement, having a boat that manages to slip just shortly will "close the door", or on the contrary if Luna Rossa will have to defend itself from a boat that attacks from downwind to be able to luff better without slipping, or jamming less, it represents an extra card. We remind you that in the new match race formula the start will be back upwind, so we will see some bracing stops and boats that will have to start from a standstill when the lift of the foils will be zero until the boat returns to accelerate. It will be interesting to see what angle of rest, and how far, they will need these boats to start from a bow to wind and reduced speed. The more this angle is reduced the more the boat will be maneuvered and agile in the delicate phases of prestart.

WetHog  :ph34r:

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

  ^ In this connection, it so happens I owned a Dart catamaran not many decades ago - long keel, skeg and all. I therefore feel qualified for the LR helmsman role and expect to be offered the position in the near future

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at AM’s and LR’S teeny foils - and to the repeated mention of 8 kts TWS as the minimum for foiling - until further notice, 8 kts is supposed to be the minimum for foiling when the boat is already up on the foils. But for taking off, the only forecast is still the very first AM’s VPP, with the boat doing 16 kts on 12 kt TWS

With the boats now sailing, we’ll soon have an update on that - but with all the towing being done, it’s not like a much lower wind speed will be found suitable

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Xlot said:

8 kts is supposed to be the minimum for foiling when the boat is already up on the foils. But for taking off, the only forecast is still the very first AM’s VPP, with the boat doing 16 kts on 12 kt TWS. With the boats now sailing, we’ll soon have an update on that - but with all the towing being done, it’s not like a much lower wind speed will be found suitable.

We don't know wind limits yet, teams have to build boats without knowing if they have to favor the lower or higher end, or both.

And I don't know if the rule will allow boats to be towed before the race... Seems impossible,  but it's the AC after all.

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Boybland said:

Pretty sure the little lumps are some kind of protector, they are not present in other photos. But the fences vary in size dramatically between the two foils.

I'd guess that it's a foil actuator

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Xlot said:

 

  ^ In this connection, it so happens I owned a Dart catamaran not many decades ago - long keel, skeg and all. I therefore feel qualified for the LR helmsman role and expect to be offered the position in the near future

I wonder how much if any yaw the boats will have while flying. A touchdown with both yaw a ‘skeg’ could be, umm, exciting..

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

 

Similar to what I said right after they showed the new foils.  They may have delayed the launch in order to redo their first set of foils.  If UK shows torpedo foils, that could be why they had such a delay.  AM may have let the cat out of the bag too soon.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Herfy said:

Similar to what I said right after they showed the new foils.  They may have delayed the launch in order to redo their first set of foils.  If UK shows torpedo foils, that could be why they had such a delay.  AM may have let the cat out of the bag too soon.

Agreed, AM may have absolutely nailed it wrt trying forever-foil-wings designs and forced LR to take the same path. OTOH they may have reached the same rules conclusion rules-wise early on and the delay was for other reasons. In one video an LR designer, while describing the redesign and building of the V2 arms, flat out admitted how all that work had impacted LR’s progress for also building B1. 

Guess we’ll see with the launch tomorrow if there’s a chance the Frackers went with torps too, possibly including for that same reason.

Basiliscus? Got any insights please? TE had Brit Ward on recently, wish you would share an hour for us with him too.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Herfy said:

Similar to what I said right after they showed the new foils.  They may have delayed the launch in order to redo their first set of foils.  If UK shows torpedo foils, that could be why they had such a delay.  AM may have let the cat out of the bag too soon.

I doubt a a new set of foils can be built in a few weeks...

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/2/2019 at 3:16 PM, Purple Headed Warrior said:

I missed this Jimmy driving the forklift thing... did that happen? (I am well aware that it didnt crash into the boat)

I’d bet that’s just marks left from lifting straps. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow. Talking sbout cool solutions ... that is one 

I bet the guy who said to the press :"the boom is there but you do not see it" is going to get some bad words from Sirena and others in the team. but I guess some spies from the other team would have noticed that even without public attention on it 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, WindySurfer said:

Not sure how you could do this within the rule.  The battens must be able to be laid flat.

I was under the impression that only applied to the mid zone, not the lower and upper designated control zones

Link to post
Share on other sites

Bertelli, from a Gtran of https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lastampa.it/sport/vela/2019/10/05/news/bertelli-bella-luna-rossa-ma-l-america-s-cup-perde-un-occasione-1.37684375/amp/

(He also says something like ‘the boom is inside the boat’)

If the New Zealanders, the holders of the Cup, had listened to me, now we would surely have a greater number of challenging teams (besides Luna Rossa, the English of Ineos and the Americans of American Magic and - maybe, even if they say they are busy in the construction of the boat - of Stars & Stripes). It would have been better to say goodbye to the catamarans of the last edition with a less complex boat, a 60 foot monohull, like those of the former Volvo Ocean Race, always with the foils that lift it from the water and make it fly, but different from these. It would have had a simpler electronic system, it would have cost at least 20 million euros less (65 million the initial budget of Luna Rossa) and it would have been the intermediate step from which to climb to build a new class of boats. Instead we immediately started being aggressive ».

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

(He also says something like ‘the boom is inside the boat’)

 

"We are the only ones with the mainsail boom inside the boat. The main sail, which will be double, which can be hoisted but will always be moved with the crane given its weight, will be adjusted by the two wells, where the crew members will be, divided into as many maneuver groups and with each a helmsman . They won't move from there, forget the men on deck. You won't even need the bowman anymore, because you do everything from behind. If you go, launched at 30-35 knots upwind or 45-50 aft, fly away ».

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

Absolute puff-piece. What a waste of digits.  

Someone is a bit  Bitter still:

BUT AFTER THE SCANDALOUS RULE CHANGE OF ELLISON AND COUTTS PATRIZIO BERTELLI BROKE UP THE TEAM AND WROTE 20 MILLION EUROS IN THE WIND.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

 

5 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Thanks, but he doesn't tell much.

 

5 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Absolute puff-piece. What a waste of digits.  

 

5 hours ago, Stingray~ said:
4 hours ago, barfy said:

Someone is a bit  Bitter still:

BUT AFTER THE SCANDALOUS RULE CHANGE OF ELLISON AND COUTTS PATRIZIO BERTELLI BROKE UP THE TEAM AND WROTE 20 MILLION EUROS IN THE WIND.

Very interesting comments indeed, on Stingy's links (thanks Sting).

The real in depth analyses are on AC Anarchy, so much better than TV/online news or a daily paper!

Get real you cynical lot.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Bertelli, from a Gtran of https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lastampa.it/sport/vela/2019/10/05/news/bertelli-bella-luna-rossa-ma-l-america-s-cup-perde-un-occasione-1.37684375/amp/

(He also says something like ‘the boom is inside the boat’)

If the New Zealanders, the holders of the Cup, had listened to me, now we would surely have a greater number of challenging teams (besides Luna Rossa, the English of Ineos and the Americans of American Magic and - maybe, even if they say they are busy in the construction of the boat - of Stars & Stripes). It would have been better to say goodbye to the catamarans of the last edition with a less complex boat, a 60 foot monohull, like those of the former Volvo Ocean Race, always with the foils that lift it from the water and make it fly, but different from these. It would have had a simpler electronic system, it would have cost at least 20 million euros less (65 million the initial budget of Luna Rossa) and it would have been the intermediate step from which to climb to build a new class of boats. Instead we immediately started being aggressive ».

 

 

Reiterated here

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Varan said:

Sorry, misspelled regurgitated

Right on, that's sounds much much more like it!

Had to google it, I confess: 

repeat (information) without analysing or comprehending it.  !!!
 
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

. The main sail, which will be double, which can be hoisted but will always be moved with the crane given its weight

These mainsails are surely going to end up being almost as delicate as the wings given the amount of control systems between the two skins?? Getting them on/off the boats and hoisted/dropped is going to be a stressful operation...

13 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

will be adjusted by the two wells, where the crew members will be, divided into as many maneuver groups and with each a helmsman . They won't move from there, forget the men on deck.

11 guys, split across each side of the boat, with dual helmsman (and wing/flight controllers) that don't change sides?? That is some serious multitasking given the likely power outputs required to keep tanks topped up. To go full SA Speculation, that seems like a recipe for disaster to have one of your appendage controllers going full gas on the handles and then straight to the Xbox controller sucking breaths and a HR of 180...

 

13 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

You won't even need the bowman anymore, because you do everything from behind

Given that the teams still seem to be anticipating using Code 0s for low wind take-offs, there must be some interesting plans for deploying and retrieving the headsails without a real bowman... Lot's of tracer lines and extra-long tack lines to guide the sails out of the foredeck hatches to the bowsprit??

Either way these things are going to be fascinating to watch, particularly early on as the teams explore the corners of the new rules...

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, NZK said:

Either way these things are going to be fascinating to watch, particularly early on as the teams explore the corners of the new rules...

win or lose these things are going to be awesome to watch

north head and mt vic are going to be crowded

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, phill_nz said:

win or lose these things are going to be awesome to watch

north head and mt vic are going to be crowded

I just hope that the racing is close. There is potential for massive speed differentials between teams, much bigger than we saw in the AC50 and probably even bigger than the 72s. So let’s hope we get lucky like the finals in SF. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Chimp too said:

I just hope that the racing is close. There is potential for massive speed differentials between teams, much bigger than we saw in the AC50 and probably even bigger than the 72s. So let’s hope we get lucky like the finals in SF. 

I doubt that differences will be as big as either the AC50 or AC72 unless Stars & Stripes make it to the line.

All three challengers and the defender have all chosen slightly different desing routes true, but they all look very well funded and well on the ball with what is required to win. 

Without S&S there just won't be that one really terrible team to completely thumped when they take on the top teams.

Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Boybland said:

I doubt that differences will be as big as either the AC50 or AC72 unless Stars & Stripes make it to the line.

All three challengers and the defender have all chosen slightly different desing routes true, but they all look very well funded and well on the ball with what is required to win. 

Without S&S there just won't be that one really terrible team to completely thumped when they take on the top teams.

I hope you are right, but considering Oracle, ETNZ, Lina Rossa and Artemis in 2013 were all well funded and more similar in design, but very different in performance, then considering all in 2017 were very similar designs with only really foils and control systems differing, but performance was all over the place, I don’t have the same confidence that you have.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Max Sirena has said that they have no winch.. but the class rule says that they nees winches for the jib. Does it means that they will have no jib at all?

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Sail World NZ translated an Article first published by "La Stampa" where Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli Team Team Principal Patrizio Bertelli is still highly critical of the the new AC 75 Class Boats. He says the Electronic Control Systems are waaay too complicated which spiked the Costs.

The translation was posted. 1608

Edited by Sailbydate
post
Link to post
Share on other sites

Bertelli:

"Well, I'd say it's not bad, even from an aesthetic point of view. I prefer it to the boat of the New Zealanders, which is not ugly, while that of the Americans of American Magic looks like a bomb. These boats, though ... I am only sorry for the opportunity lost by the America's Cup.

Bertelli suggested the electronics system – "the one hidden in the hull" - was almost a third of the cost of the boat and he felt that had been a deterrent to other teams.

"The Americans turned to Airbus, so to speak. This is the real reason that has kept other potential challenging teams away … too difficult to start from scratch,"

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/116368428/americas-cup-italians-blast-aggressive-new-boat

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Bertelli:

"Well, I'd say it's not bad, even from an aesthetic point of view. I prefer it to the boat of the New Zealanders, which is not ugly, while that of the Americans of American Magic looks like a bomb. These boats, though ... I am only sorry for the opportunity lost by the America's Cup.

Bertelli suggested the electronics system – "the one hidden in the hull" - was almost a third of the cost of the boat and he felt that had been a deterrent to other teams.

"The Americans turned to Airbus, so to speak. This is the real reason that has kept other potential challenging teams away … too difficult to start from scratch,"

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/116368428/americas-cup-italians-blast-aggressive-new-boat

At best Bertelli's boats would have put the cup into a holding pattern at worst they would have devalued it to a medcup or similar level.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Chimp too said:

I hope you are right, but considering Oracle, ETNZ, Lina Rossa and Artemis in 2013 were all well funded and more similar in design, but very different in performance, then considering all in 2017 were very similar designs with only really foils and control systems differing, but performance was all over the place, I don’t have the same confidence that you have.

Except in SF they weren't really similar in design at all.

ETNZ was built to foil from the outset, she was also built for a ruleset thay had a windrange of 3 to 33 knots.

Oracle was built to foil, but clearly never built to perform above about 25 knots, she wasn't even safe to use in those conditions, not sure how they thought it was meant to work prior to the rules being changed.

Artemis was never built to foil and was retrofitted to do so.

Luna Rosa was based on the ETNZ initial boat, so yes those two boats were very similar, but it was a gen1 v gen2 boats.

 

In 2017 the performance disparity was largely due to ill prepared teams, groupama simply didn't have the finances or resources to get even a basically one design package ready to race, all the well funded teams weren't terrible and each made a decent fist of it when conditions favoured their setup.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Boybland said:

I doubt that differences will be as big as either the AC50 or AC72 unless Stars & Stripes make it to the line.

All three challengers and the defender have all chosen slightly different desing routes true, but they all look very well funded and well on the ball with what is required to win. 

Without S&S there just won't be that one really terrible team to completely thumped when they take on the top teams.

Slightly different??????

 

Lots of money spent in very different directions in a new and unfamiliar format is going to lead to design winners and design losers. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites