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Concerning ETNZ 

Hé assume the difference in the foil

 larger for LR and easier to stand up on

smaller and potentialy faster for ETNZ

but LR foil has one wing to give the lift and the second one act has a board(un plan anti dérive -cherchez sur Google merde!)

Flat foils of ETNZ are much more unstable at high speed. So even at the high range he remains confident to have some strenghts to oppose 

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10 minutes ago, herve.saulnier said:

Very  interesting insight from philippe Presti performance coach of LR

https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-france.fr/regate/coupe-de-l-america/video-america-s-cup-philippe-presti-coach-des-italiens-analyse-le-duel-face-aux-neo-zelandais-fb07ea96-78de-11eb-9cc7-52c7bf2f6234

30 mn is a bit long to sum up 

main info 

the recover alter RR was only du to improvment of handling. No secret weapon 

the use of the chase boat for match racing training following Vmg rules on a computer. Using flag to simulate board down

Having two top match racer as helmsmen have been key to improve each other while comparing relative performance as foil trimer/helmsman

he said itsnot that hard to helm. Its the combination of sail foil and helm which is a hell

 Hes happy to saw the rise of the wing trimer having more confidence in himself which majes a perfect trio 

in the simulator jimy and bruni only watch half of the screen to be in the same condition as in regatta. The work on communication and even wirding is a huge effort. This was the main weakness for ineos 

Thanks!

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3 minutes ago, herve.saulnier said:

oeuf corse !



Oeuf corse! Une spécialité d'Ajaccio? ;) The spell checker sometimes takes brilliant initiatives to me as well :)

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Truly superb, thanks!

Random points:

- the AC75 requires stability before being able to apply power (reminds me of the Pirelli motto, power is nothing without control)

- INEOS made a mistake by working on the boat instead of sailing. Their low wind performance was limited by foils

- he actually records conversation between JS and FB to optimize it

- he had to work on Pietro Sibello who is rather shy by nature and initially hesitated to confront the two world-class helmsmen

- for the Match, they changed a little something (laughs)

 

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8 minutes ago, herve.saulnier said:

Du san-antonio de frederic dard plutôt pour les plus anciens  

I needed the help from Google. I was asking too much to my poor level of French! :)

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Bruni said LR improvement in strong winds since the RR is not less than 10%, without losing their shape in light winds at all, but they ignore what the performance of the kiwi boat will be in that range.

 

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1 hour ago, strider470 said:

Bruni said LR improvement in strong winds since the RR is not less than 10%, without losing their shape in light winds at all, but they ignore what the performance of the kiwi boat will be in that range.

 

The likelihood that the boat goes 10% faster in any condition is hard to believe. these are fast and top of the field but improving constantly.

Regardless I hope they are better its meant to be a good fight.

regarding higher mode etc. why would ETNZ have shown their high mode against a bench marking race doing it in training is the place for that and ultimately high mode if it is not a VMG improver is purely strategic to get out from under or pushing to a lay pinching etc. 

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4 hours ago, coercivity said:

The likelihood that the boat goes 10% faster in any condition is hard to believe.

I would agree.

But I remember Max Sirena saying that they were hitting a glass ceiling in the RR in higher wind range. He told they eventually figured out where the setup/handling mistake was.
So it's not that unlikely that kind of improvement in that specific range.

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2 minutes ago, Thewas said:

I would agree.

But I remember Max Sirena saying that they were hitting a glass ceiling in the RR in higher wind range. He told they eventually figured out where the setup/handling mistake was.
So it's not that unlikely that kind of improvement in that specific range.

glass ceiling  ??

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4 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

glass ceiling  ??

LOL bad English, actually. I'll try again: They were hitting a "performance wall" that was way below the boat target.

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16 minutes ago, Thewas said:

LOL bad English, actually. I'll try again: They were hitting a "performance wall" that was way below the boat target.

performance wall ??

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oh, muli, 'ndè un poco tuti in mona! :lol:
Mia figlia m'ha tenuto sveglio tutta a notte: abbiate pietà. Se qualcuno avesse capito cosa intendo e me lo potesse spiegare gliene sarò eternamente grato.

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6 minutes ago, Thewas said:

oh, muli, 'ndè un poco tuti in mona! :lol:
Mia figlia m'ha tenuto sveglio tutta a notte: abbiate pietà. Se qualcuno avesse capito cosa intendo e me lo potesse spiegare gliene sarò eternamente grato.

Forsi che 'performance barrier' i capiva mejo ma chi capisi capisi e chi no capisi... mona! Whops, this is not the ITA LR thread... E coi fioi de note xè sempre ciodi!

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35 minutes ago, Thewas said:

LOL bad English, actually. I'll try again: They were hitting a "performance wall" that was way below the boat target.

After that meeting one hears that Max found Jimmy's big bag of sand and threw it over ;) 

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12 minutes ago, Thewas said:

oh, muli, 'ndè un poco tuti in mona! :lol:
Mia figlia m'ha tenuto sveglio tutta a notte: abbiate pietà. Se qualcuno avesse capito cosa intendo e me lo potesse spiegare gliene sarò eternamente grato.

:D Performance glass ceiling wall ??

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Comunque era chiarissimo, era solo per prendere un po' per il culo visto che qui di regate non se ne vedono ancora per un pezzo :D :D

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1 hour ago, Thewas said:

I would agree.

But I remember Max Sirena saying that they were hitting a glass ceiling in the RR in higher wind range. He told they eventually figured out where the setup/handling mistake was.
So it's not that unlikely that kind of improvement in that specific range.

They converted the sand to glass?

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15 minutes ago, strider470 said:

But then they build the wall with the glass?

They built a wall with a glass of performance and the sands of time. A foiling wall, of course.

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Per fare il vetro, ci vuol la sabbia, (ma anche) per fare il muro  ci vuol la sabbia. Non importa se sei vetro o muro, l'importante è la performance. Il soffitto invece che c'azzecca? :D

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Waiting for the race, here some old videos.

Is there already any topic where to put legacy America's Cup videos?

 

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2 hours ago, strider470 said:

But then they build the wall with the glass?

Only so they can crash through it in spectacular fashion, I'm sure...

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8 minutes ago, Nutta said:

Only so they can crash through it in spectacular fashion, I'm sure...

That would be "the" picture. Man how I miss being a photographer... (OK, perhaps crashing an AC75 through a glass wall would have been a bit over my skills/possibilities)

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1 hour ago, strider470 said:

Waiting for the race, here some old videos.

Is there already any topic where to put legacy America's Cup videos?

 

Agreed mate, it would be cool if you could even apply a tag(s) to a post, and then be able to search using those tags, different tags for each cup cycle, challenger etc

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10 minutes ago, 45Roller said:

Agreed mate, it would be cool if you could even apply a tag(s) to a post, and then be able to search using those tags, different tags for each cup cycle, challenger etc

Let's search the forum first. If we cannot find anything we start a new Topic.

I wouldn't use the "where are they now" topic since it's a different purpose.

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40 minutes ago, 45Roller said:

A new Sail Chaser upload 

 

Both LR and TR look very good at lower wind speeds - this LR video indicates a wind speed of 8 knots.  Certainly no way for us to see which boat is the faster, until they race!

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1 minute ago, MaxHugen said:

Both LR and TR look very good at lower wind speeds - this LR video indicates a wind speed of 8 knots.  Certainly no way for us to see which boat is the faster, until they race!

I hope they had time to finish that modification to the stern before the declaration day.

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2 minutes ago, strider470 said:

I hope they had time to finish that modification to the stern before the declaration day.

I must have missed something, what is the modification? To LR?

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4 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

I must have missed something, what is the modification? To LR?

Jimmy asked to install a sign

Cartello.jpg.203dce3e947db8e33cfbf24ad52bc6d1.jpg

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2 minutes ago, mauriciogfj said:

I am afraid you took Strider bait Max. He is silently smiling in the background...

ahahahahahah ;)

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1 minute ago, strider470 said:

Jimmy asked to install a sign

Cartello.jpg.203dce3e947db8e33cfbf24ad52bc6d1.jpg

Hahahaha... I got sucked right in, didn't I.  :lol:

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3 minutes ago, mauriciogfj said:

Hey @strider470, this is one of the best cartoons inspired by the previous AC edition.
How should it be updated? Take a shot.

America's Cup: Competing with cartoons >> Scuttlebutt Sailing News

I already have a few ideas :D, thanks for the tip

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  ^ The plan is to stuff Burling & Co. with pizza before the Match, so they exceed the crew weight and are disqualified :) 

 

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4 minutes ago, Xlot said:

 

  ^ The plan is to stuff Burling & Co. with pizza before the Match, so they exceed the crew weight and are disqualified :) 

 

I suggest pizza con cozze, peperoni e vetri rotti :D

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2 minutes ago, strider470 said:

I suggest pizza con cozze, peperoni e vetri rotti :D

The extra chili alone should do the trick... keep them busy with a "burning ring of fire" for a while?  :wub:

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This just in from ETNZ, sailing team banned from ordering pizza on deliveroo :P

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1 hour ago, 45Roller said:

"The hard stop is the 21st March and the Italians have been clear about sticking to the schedule so the boat leading after the 21st March wins the Cup. That’s it. Winner declared."

O...kay!    :huh:

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20 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

"The hard stop is the 21st March and the Italians have been clear about sticking to the schedule so the boat leading after the 21st March wins the Cup. That’s it. Winner declared."

O...kay!    :huh:

It's ambiguous at best until they clarify it.

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12 hours ago, The Advocate said:

Sorry, figured out the youtube linking better

 

Really interesting. Pietro is really an amazing person.

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5 hours ago, Zaal said:

sprays.thumb.png.ff0b0c6de2c58940a66371248cdd7e8a.png

 

Very different "spray" from Luna Rossa and Te Rehutai. LR seems littler and cleaner, no ? And different package for LR too: refined wings, new sails and deck fairings, according to Horacio Carabelli. 

Video by Justin Mitchell 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb_T4QqIhj0

 

Yes I have noticed the difference in spray as well. Would prefer to have LR's.

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13 hours ago, The Advocate said:

Sorry, figured out the youtube linking better

 

Could be my stupidity but I can’t figure out how to translate this. Normally there’s a caption to enable it. Thoughts welcome. 

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38 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Interesting considerations about the risks during crossing and penalties not given

Will watch it tonight after work, time zones issues.

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3 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

Could be my stupidity but I can’t figure out how to translate this. Normally there’s a caption to enable it. Thoughts welcome. 

Bugger, option doesn't appear for me either. Perhaps one of our Italian friends can give us a run down.

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2 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

Bugger, option doesn't appear for me either. Perhaps one of our Italian friends can give us a run down.

Thanks. I’ve been trying for ages. It worked perfectly when Max was interviewed. 

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10 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

Could be my stupidity but I can’t figure out how to translate this. Normally there’s a caption to enable it. Thoughts welcome. 

Definitely your stupidity!

(go to miniplayer, then back to main screen and subtitles options appears)

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10 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

Definitely your stupidity!

(go to miniplayer, then back to main screen and subtitles options appears)

Thank you, now I know I’m stupid :lol: Now.... go ..... to ....... mini ....... bed 

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45Roller or Strider or a compassionate Italian feeling sorry for this dumb idiot or somebody else way smarter than me will figure it out..... because I surrender:wub: 

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6 hours ago, Zaal said:

Very different "spray" from Luna Rossa and Te Rehutai. LR seems littler and cleaner, no ?

They are on quite different headings, so the forces on their foils will be quite different.

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1 hour ago, Paddywackery said:

45Roller or Strider or a compassionate Italian feeling sorry for this dumb idiot or somebody else way smarter than me will figure it out..... because I surrender:wub: 

Sorry, I didn't have time. Tomorrow I'll do it, unless @Zaal
steps in ;)

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On 3/2/2021 at 5:26 AM, strider470 said:

I suggest pizza con cozze, peperoni e vetri rotti :D

We've already arranged for your sailing team to be distracted by our local women ;)

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36 minutes ago, jaysper said:

We've already arranged for your sailing team to be distracted by our local women ;)

And we infiltrated in your media! I saw that our grinder Bezzi really appreciated!

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4 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Talking to their foils, the Italians asking their wings to deliver when it counts most..! :D

 

Luna_Rossa_Coppa_America_YD_foils.jpg

You don't understand! That's a human actuator. It adds a little bit of drag but allows a better control of the flap :)

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6 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Talking to their foils, the Italians asking their wings to deliver when it counts most..! :D

 

Luna_Rossa_Coppa_America_YD_foils.jpg

Pretty sure he's trying to pull it back to be more of a T...

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I think LR at the moment are pretty calm and confident, or better, fatalistic. I mean, they have already achieved a fantastic result winning the Prada Cup (after 20 years) and soundly beating the Americans and the Brits. Now truly they have nothing to lose, they already are heroes back home. Considering that (unfortunately) sailing is not a mainstream sport in Italy, this is a huge achievement. People are crazy about Luna Rossa here! Even if they lose they will be cheered for years to come. Look at Paul Cayard and Francesco de Angelis.

This is like a final in the soccer World Cup between New Zealand and Italy, on the reverse. All the pressure is on the Kiwis. They can only win or it will be a disaster.

If Luna Rossa loses, it will be the most beautiful boat to have ever lost the America's Cup. Nothing will stop our party! :)

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11 minutes ago, strider470 said:

This is like a final in the soccer World Cup between New Zealand and Italy, on the reverse.

And there's 11 players for team, BTW.:P

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Just now, Thewas said:

And there's 11 players for team, BTW.:P

Let's hope the Kiwis don't bring some new, last-minute, umpire! :D

TW_Byron_Moreno.thumb.jpg.d5d63ca01dea4af3aed377539aa23c55.jpg

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1 minute ago, strider470 said:

Let's hope the Kiwis don't bring some new, last-minute, umpire! :D

 

No need for Moreno here, it already looks like the umpires had their one way "laissez faire" approach.

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On 3/2/2021 at 9:35 AM, The Advocate said:

Sorry, figured out the youtube linking better

 

Live chat with Pietro Sibello. Luna Rossa main sail trimmer and tactician.

Q - How is being under lockdown in Auckland?

PS - For us sailors nothing changed, we can continue with our sailing activity as before. We can go sailing when we want. Also the shore team can work at the base without huge restrictions. It's all right.

Q - We have seen very interesting videos of both your and Te Rehutai training shot by several YouTubers. Honestly, you are looking very good. What is your sensation onboard of Luna Rossa?

PS - Well, well, well as usual. I would say better and better. The configuration of the boat now is decided and measured and so the development phase came to an end, except for the little details that you always have to adjust before the races. We are focusing on high-intensity and high-quality training sessions. We are working to improve the maneuvering, crew coordination, push the boat to the limits, simulate situations that we think will be important during races. We are working hard. Yes, yesterday we had very good sensations, and we are very happy about how things are going.

Q - We are trying to understand what you say to each other in the afterguard when maneuvering. Can you explain your standard procedures? My trav, my rake and so on...

PS - Ok, let's consider a tack. Normally the helmsmen have very clear in their mind the position of the boat in the racecourse. There is a countdown towards the boundary (if the tack has to be performed there). You have to make sure the boat has the right speed before starting the tack, and if the wind is very light it could be necessary to build a little bit of additional speed in order to assure a perfect tack. Then there is the countdown to the board drop when the helmsman drops the windward board.  "3 - 2 - 1 board drop". The mainsail follows the boat rotation, in order not to put too early the pressure on the newly dropped board. At this point the helmsman makes the "turning" call and the boat begins to turn. Approximately when bow to wind, the helmsmen switch roles, and I finish trimming the mainsail during the end of the tack. When the board up operation on the other side is completed, the helmsman is ready to take control of the rudder rake and the traveler and make the call "my rake, my trav" and I'm free to disengage my controller, move to the other side of the boat, and take the controls again making the call "my trav". Then we can sail in a straight line again. When I am disconnected, the helmsman uses a joystick on the wheel to control the traveler until I make the "my trav" call.

Q - "My rake, My trav" is already a hashtag. They already are making t-shirts!

A - The "my rake" call is necessary because, during the tack, the helmsman is already controlling the boat rotation and the board up/down operations, so the rake control is performed by Matteo Celon, the grinder in front of Jimmy. With the rake control, we change the boat pitch.

Q - Pietro, we have the impression that you are the eyes connecting the two helmsmen. Is that true?

PS - I'm more the glasses than the eyes. (laughing). (In Italian occhiali - occhi). I think it is a good description and it gives an idea of how things go on, of the crew work, of the good communications between us. An eye, on his own, can do little, but together we can give the maximum.

Q - What about the other role you have, the mainsail trimmer? The main trimmer of AM told that he could control 18 parameters! Can it be true? How many parameters do you control?

PS - For sure many. Our task has been to reduce their number to the minimum. If you wanted, you could control hundreds of them, but they would add only confusion and it would be too difficult to sail the boat. I always try to simplify things even if the boat is very complex. I try to eliminate the numbers. And we try to delegate to the grinders some functions, also regarding the mainsail. This is a key factor in racing an AC75, which is very difficult. We have to simplify things at the maximum.

Q - You are the only one in the crew that needs to switch sides. How risky and dangerous is walking and moving on a boat at such incredible speeds?

PS - For sure, going from one side to the other of the boat, downwind, at over 45 kts, especially with the very unstable southwest wind in course C, you have to pay a lot of attention. And you have to do it at the right moment. In the past weeks, I saw crewmen on other boats moving when the boat was still rotating, and I think that it's a mistake, it can be really dangerous. I choose to switch sides only when the boat is very stable, when the new helmsman has already taken control and can steer the boat smoothly on a straight line.

Q - You have Olympic experience, you were very near to win a medal with the 49er, so you are very accustomed to speed. How is different to sail an AC75? Last time you told us that you become accustomed to speed. Is that true?

PS - Yes, that's true. These boats were designed to reach those speeds, and it is always very much in control and very stable. Even when you have seen on TV the boats coming out of the water after a mark, if you are onboard you are never frightened, you almost don't feel that. It's scarier for the people on the chase boat than for us. The really different thing is that, for instance, when there is a 20 kts wind and you are going upwind at 40 kts, the apparent wind is so strong that you find it difficult to hear communication, that is impressive. Without a really advanced comm system, it would be impossible to hear people at distances of a few cm. This is what really makes you realize how fast you are sailing.

Q - I see that at least you have cut all the "copy" in the communications. That alone is a good improvement. (laughing)

Q - A lot of people fear that the AC will end after the first upwind leg of the first race. What do you think, at present?

PS - I think this is one of the beautiful aspects of the America's Cup. Having two boats that didn't race one against the other for a very long time. The boats have been greatly developed since the Christmas Race. Everybody tries to guess their speeds. What I think is that it will be difficult to have totally different speeds, and in the end, we will try to compete, and if they will be similar, we have a very good opportunity. If TNZ will be a little bit faster in certain conditions, we will accept that and we will do everything possible to fill the gap and improve race after race.

Luca Devoti (LD) enters the live chat. They chat a little bit del più e del meno. :)

Q - Is there a particular reason why Checco is steering on the left and Jimmy on the right?

PS -  This was not really an explicit decision. Back when they used only the simulator, before the AC75s were even built, they already try to steer and trim the foils together. Since Checco is left-handed and the foil controller is on the side of the cockpit, he started on the left side (Jimmy is right-handed). And then they continued in that way. This is the story.

Q - Can the helmsman control some parameters of the mainsail?

PS - He can only control the traveler. Once the mainsail is correctly trimmed, there is no need for continuously changing. It's more the grinders that can control other things, like outhaul, cunningham, mast rotation when needed.

Q - Is the fact that you have to trim not one, but two mainsails a complication? When you need more power from the main sail, which of the two you trim? Or both?

PS - As I said, we developed our systems in order to simplify things during the race. It would be impossible to quickly react to a situation if you have to understand what you have to do with the different parameters. Our system was designed so that in every situation you press a button and what you have in mind is performed automatically. This is one of the strong points of our team, but also Team New Zealand developed exceptional systems to control their mainsail. If we need power, for instance in order to take off in light winds, you will need maximum mast rotation, outhaul eased, bue considering that the mast rotation implies a differential in the two outhauls controls.

Q - Having seen Te Rehutai during training, not far from you, what personal impressions did you get?

PS - For sure the boat is extremely interesting. They did further steps in the development compared to the other teams, for instance regarding hull and sails aerodynamics, the lowered deck, the crew position. It's a very clean layout. But I must add that every choice that is made is a compromise. Maybe you want to improve something but there are also downsides that you need to minimize. They made extreme choices, as usual, because Team New Zealand never fears pushing over the limits. But this doesn't mean that our boat is not at the same level. This