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7 minutes ago, Lifted Tack said:

Republicans would endeavor to have Trump resign and have Pence pardon him for the "good of the country,"

I presume Trump would want a deal that covers family and friends and state charges. That would make it a lot harder than the Nixon thing. Also, Trump doesn't seem to care at all about collateral damage. Maybe I'm indulging in nostalgia but I think the Nixon thing was less horrific because at some level Nixon cared about the country.

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It's 7:00am, maybe, it could be 8:00am. It's hard to tell. The electricity has been off for, well, a very long time. The sun is starting to rise over the horizon with the red mist slowly lifting to li

Jack, I think you actually believe this. That's kind of scary, because it shows just how effective propaganda can be.  The dossier has not been disproven, administration and campaign officials ha

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17 minutes ago, hermetic said:

of course I get it.

but I can not recall the fbi letting a traitor walk.  can you?

I can see them letting flynn walk on the lying and fara for his cooperation, but letting a three star walk for treason?  no way

First, it isn't the FBI. They investigate. It's the DOJ and in this case in particular, Mueller and the other Federal prosecutors. An example of plea bargaining away treason, Jonathon Pollard, which allowed that piece of shit to get parole in 2015.

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3 minutes ago, weightless said:

I presume Trump would want a deal that covers family and friends and state charges. That would make it a lot harder than the Nixon thing. Also, Trump doesn't seem to care at all about collateral damage. Maybe I'm indulging in nostalgia but I think the Nixon thing was less horrific because at some level Nixon cared about the country.

I'll begrudgingly agree that Nixon did not do what he did for personal wealth gain.... Perhaps for personal ego gain, but not wealth.

Trump is all about ego, and profit, personal profit. If he didn't think he could make a big buck on being POTUS he wouldn't have bothered. It was all about him, and his bank account.

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1 minute ago, Mrleft8 said:

I'll begrudgingly agree that Nixon did not do what he did for personal wealth gain.... Perhaps for personal ego gain, but not wealth.

Trump is all about ego, and profit, personal profit. If he didn't think he could make a big buck on being POTUS he wouldn't have bothered. It was all about him, and his bank account.

I don't think an enemies list and secret tapes, and lying and being a paranoid asshole shows much regard for the country. Just a lifer pol doing what they do.

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4 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

I don't think that Shitstain can get any deal that would keep NY from sending Shitstain to Rikers.

Seems like that may just be a cost of doing business in the Trump's social world. 

Eg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Kushner

Charles Kushner (born May 16, 1954) is an American real estate developer. He founded Kushner Companies in 1985. In 2005, he was convicted of illegal campaign contributions, tax evasion, and witness tampering, and served time in federal prison. After his release, he resumed his career in real estate. His son, Jared Kushner, is the husband of Ivanka Trump and son-in-law and senior advisor to President Donald Trump.

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48 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

I don't think an enemies list and secret tapes, and lying and being a paranoid asshole shows much regard for the country. Just a lifer pol doing what they do.

But did he make a personal, financial profit from it?

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42 minutes ago, hasher said:

Life changes when you grab it by its high heels, spin it around upside down, kiss it on the lips and hold it close.

reminds me of something so very funky.....

 

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1 hour ago, hasher said:

Do you think these things can be talked about?  I can only say what I know.  You don't know.

That's a dodge worthy of Hopeless Hillary.

Can you post a photocopy?

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16 hours ago, hasher said:

Does anyone use that term?  It is quite odd to be referred to as a "Dude".  It reflects upon what follows. I use sir a lot.  I use Mr. if I don't know him well enough to use his first name.  But "dude", that's not in my bailiwick.  I have been in many places in big cities, rich and poor, parts of the world developed and not.  But "dude".  To each his own.  I will address your other craziness momentarily.  Unlike you, I'd like to be accurate.

I do but I use it with dudes I know to be dudes. It's a fine word and recall that we are ostensibly sailors. Dog is just being a ... well, you get the idea.

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1 hour ago, Olsonist said:
1 hour ago, hermetic said:

of course I get it.

but I can not recall the fbi letting a traitor walk.  can you?

I can see them letting flynn walk on the lying and fara for his cooperation, but letting a three star walk for treason?  no way

First, it isn't the FBI. They investigate. It's the DOJ and in this case in particular, Mueller and the other Federal prosecutors. An example of plea bargaining away treason, Jonathon Pollard, which allowed that piece of shit to get parole in 2015.

30 years is not the same as letting flynn walk

 

 

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6 minutes ago, bhyde said:
1 hour ago, hermetic said:

who?

Ever heard of Witness Protection? Criminals flip on their bosses and get sent to Utah all the time.

yes, I understand the concept of pleading for a lesser charge.  but not treason.  ain't gonna happen

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17 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

But did he make a personal, financial profit from it?

I know where you're going there and we don't know. He had 15m when he died in 94 per google. He was in the Navy and then all gov all the time plus book sales. My guess is what with all the crap that went on is sure he did. He had two very.nice homes. The estate is worth 35m now. Yes he was a crook.

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1 hour ago, Blue Crab said:

I don't think an enemies list and secret tapes, and lying and being a paranoid asshole shows much regard for the country. Just a lifer pol doing what they do.

Yeah, I get that. I still think Nixon was more complex than Trump. No doubt he was a crook and a schemer and an egotistical bastard but he had some depth to him. Of course, things tend to look better in retrospect. Listened to this and found it evocative:

http://www.slate.com/articles/podcasts/slow_burn/2018/01/the_final_episode_of_slate_s_watergate_podcast.html

https://megaphone.link/SLT7840590654

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2 minutes ago, hermetic said:

30 years is not the same as letting flynn walk

Yes, they are not the same thing. The point is that Pollard walked out of prison and lives today on support from the Israeli government when he should have remained in prison on a treason charge. Pollard successfully plea bargained away the treason charge.

Moreover, Pollard was an apex criminal whereas Flynn even as National Security Advisor was an underling willing to testify against a higher up. Again, those circumstances are not the same.

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8 minutes ago, hermetic said:

yes, I understand the concept of pleading for a lesser charge.  but not treason.  ain't gonna happen

Then you should understand that if Mueller has Flynn on treason, Flynn would be more than willing to plea to a lesser charge to flip on his boss. It's not that hard to see.

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1 hour ago, weightless said:

I presume Trump would want a deal that covers family and friends and state charges. That would make it a lot harder than the Nixon thing. Also, Trump doesn't seem to care at all about collateral damage. Maybe I'm indulging in nostalgia but I think the Nixon thing was less horrific because at some level Nixon cared about the country.

I think you missed the quotes around "the good of the country." Nixon cared much less for that than about protecting what was left of the Republican cause...

 

 

...and not subsequently going to jail.

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29 minutes ago, hermetic said:

yes, I understand the concept of pleading for a lesser charge.  but not treason.  ain't gonna happen

dipshit murder is often plead down, is treason worse?  With cooperation the world opens up again.

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2 minutes ago, hasher said:
34 minutes ago, hermetic said:

yes, I understand the concept of pleading for a lesser charge.  but not treason.  ain't gonna happen

dipshit murder is often plead down, is treason worse?  With cooperation the world opens up again.

in this case?  yes, I would put any treasonous act associated with the presidential election as worse than murdering a dipshit, or anyone else

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1 minute ago, hermetic said:

in this case?  yes, I would put any treasonous act associated with the presidential election as worse than murdering a dipshit, or anyone else

Thank you.  By the way, dipshits don't get murdered, people do.  I was referencing you, but I take it back.  

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Dipshits die every day..... Are they all natural causes, or accidents?

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5 hours ago, hermetic said:
6 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

It's the basic nature of how plea bargains work.

If Mueller had Flynn nailed for -only- lying, and Flynn saw no hope of beating the rap, what does he gain by pleading guilty? He saw enough of Mueller's cards to realize that he was going to get nailed for something much worse if he didn't cooperate. Also, he did not have a "no-time charge" as he did not get any sentencing guarantee and that charge can definitely land one in the big house

Add to the above: this is exactly how Mueller has operated in the past on high-value, difficult-to-nail prosecutions.

so in your mind,  mueller has flynn nailed on treason yet tells the judge to let him walk.  you have a vivid imagination

No, I'm applying the basics of how plea bargains work

Why would Flynn plead guilty, if all he gets is a slightly-lighter sentence? Why would he give up all kinds of info on his associates? There must be a threat serious enough to him, to make his pleading guilty and turning states' evidence worth while.

I also suggest that Judge Sullivan knows more about it than you do.

Vivid imagination?

-DSK

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On 1/17/2019 at 11:18 PM, Steam Flyer said:

It's already been a long strange trip.

The question I have is, what has been pulled in to show specifically what President Trump and his family have communicated, and when....... texts, emails, post-it notes? Without a pretty good amount of pretty hard evidence from several sources, this will blow right over the heads of the Trumpettes and ~70% of Republicans.

They just don't give a shit. Trump's their boy, they knew he was a rotten asshole when they picked him (indeed IMHO that was a big part of his appeal, for many of them). For them to stand and just nod calmly as he goes down, there will need to be serious hard evidence. Even then, expect 20+% to continue to support him.

-DSK

Priceless....You and your elk on the other hand don't need hard evidence to believe so you get duped. Hate makes you stupid.

Page 154 and counting....

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13 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:
19 hours ago, hermetic said:
20 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

It's the basic nature of how plea bargains work.

If Mueller had Flynn nailed for -only- lying, and Flynn saw no hope of beating the rap, what does he gain by pleading guilty? He saw enough of Mueller's cards to realize that he was going to get nailed for something much worse if he didn't cooperate. Also, he did not have a "no-time charge" as he did not get any sentencing guarantee and that charge can definitely land one in the big house

Add to the above: this is exactly how Mueller has operated in the past on high-value, difficult-to-nail prosecutions.

so in your mind,  mueller has flynn nailed on treason yet tells the judge to let him walk.  you have a vivid imagination

No, I'm applying the basics of how plea bargains work

Why would Flynn plead guilty, if all he gets is a slightly-lighter sentence? Why would he give up all kinds of info on his associates? There must be a threat serious enough to him, to make his pleading guilty and turning states' evidence worth while.

I also suggest that Judge Sullivan knows more about it than you do.

Vivid imagination?

yes.  you are imagining there is more to the plea than is stated in the indictment.  just like you imagined flynn was paid tens of millions of dollars by the russians.

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2 hours ago, Dog said:

Priceless....You and your elk on the other hand don't need hard evidence to believe so you get duped. Hate makes you stupid.

Page 154 and counting....

How many indictments and convictions, and counting?

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2 hours ago, hermetic said:

yes.  you are imagining there is more to the plea than is stated in the indictment.  just like you imagined flynn was paid tens of millions of dollars by the russians.

Again, why would he plead guilty to ONE minor charge, -and- give up his partner and his boss in a big way, if there were not more?

It's true that I have not seen the redacted part of Flynn's rap sheet, but this is how plea bargains work -and- the judge who saw it reacted vigorously. Against that evidnce, you have little more than "it's not proven" and a pile of wishful thinking.

-DSK

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3 hours ago, Dog said:

Priceless....You and your elk on the other hand don't need hard evidence to believe so you get duped. Hate makes you stupid.

So does doubling, tripling, even quadrupling down on defending the unconscionable just because of the party a con man belongs to.

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11 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

we've got 154 pages of you bullshitting, idiot. How many hundreds of posts do you have in this thread, idiot?

And how many show even a glimmer of truth? Damn few.

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1 hour ago, Raz'r said:
4 hours ago, Dog said:

Priceless....You and your elk on the other hand don't need hard evidence to believe so you get duped. Hate makes you stupid.

Page 154 and counting....

How many indictments and convictions, and counting?

Unless there is an indictment and conviction of "felony collusion*", Dog will continue to label the investigation a "fairy tale".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Yes, I know there is no such thing.

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2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:
5 hours ago, hermetic said:

yes.  you are imagining there is more to the plea than is stated in the indictment.  just like you imagined flynn was paid tens of millions of dollars by the russians.

Again, why would he plead guilty to ONE minor charge, -and- give up his partner and his boss in a big way, if there were not more?

It's true that I have not seen the redacted part of Flynn's rap sheet, but this is how plea bargains work -and- the judge who saw it reacted vigorously. Against that evidnce, you have little more than "it's not proven" and a pile of wishful thinking.

it's not possible to prove what you imagine

"one minor charge"?  I don't think you've read the indictment at all

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41 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Unless there is an indictment and conviction of "felony collusion*", Dog will continue to label the investigation a "fairy tale".

*Yes, I know there is no such thing.

I never said the investigation was a fairy tale, I said the Russian collusion narrative is a fairy tale, and it is.

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1 hour ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

we've got 154 pages of you bullshitting, idiot. How many hundreds of posts do you have in this thread, idiot?

Looks like egg on your face. Is that egg on your face?

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3 minutes ago, Dog said:

I never said the investigation was a fairy tale, I said the Russian collusion narrative is a fairy tale, and it is.

And you are proven more wrong with every drip. Even when you try to be a pedant.

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4 minutes ago, Dog said:

It was a Ukranian.

Since it was Ukrainians who were in bed with Putin that is deliberately or otherwise obtuse. Putin did not reveal at Helsinki that he ordered Ukrainians to disseminate propaganda in US social media, he said he ordered his own people to do it. It's far from the realm of fairy tales that Manafort provided targeting for those operations. 

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17 minutes ago, Mark K said:

Since it was Ukrainians who were in bed with Putin that is deliberately or otherwise obtuse. Putin did not reveal at Helsinki that he ordered Ukrainians to disseminate propaganda in US social media, he said he ordered his own people to do it. It's far from the realm of fairy tales that Manafort provided targeting for those operations. 

Is it a crime to share polling data with a foreign national?

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2 hours ago, Dog said:

Is it a crime to share polling data with a foreign national?

The goal posts moved very quickly this time. "Collusion" one moment and in a flash they are at "Crime".  Like someone waving a wand in a fairy tale, boom there they are!

 Oh well...Not sure collusion is a crime. Some have said it isn't. But that raises the interesting question of why they lied about it. 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

In Soviet Russia, Putin likes Dog.

image.png.a4fbe7fb3421b72df5dc6d7c79998b1e.png

image.png.813a8981b6813518b7e9db5a4155dda3.png

They like dog in Vietnam too!

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On 1/18/2019 at 6:53 PM, kent_island_sailor said:

It is just eventually going to come down to Putin on live TV showing receipts for Trump's paychecks and the Republicans praising him for his work ethic :lol:

You know that one day Putin’s going to Burn Trumps house down.  The meltdown will be epic the timing exquisite.

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2 minutes ago, Fakenews said:

You know that one day Putin’s going to Burn Trumps house down.  The meltdown will be epic the timing exquisite.

The day that donnies no longer useful, Putin will humiliate him and cast him aside like a used tissue, donnies fall from grace will accelerate, not unlike jumping of one of his fabled towers.

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23 minutes ago, bhyde said:

Really? Shall we take a trip back a few pages to refresh your memory?

In his mind he is invincible. He is Spartacus.

Or, he's some poor fucker in the Siberian wastes making a couple of rubles working for The Man.

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12 hours ago, Mark K said:

The goal posts moved very quickly this time. "Collusion" one moment and in a flash they are at "Crime".  Like someone waving a wand in a fairy tale, boom there they are!

 Oh well...Not sure collusion is a crime. Some have said it isn't. But that raises the interesting question of why they lied about it. 

 

 

I'm going to take that as a no.

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16 hours ago, Dog said:

Is it a crime to share polling data with a foreign national?

What were they getting in return? Remember that Trump never gives anything away, and never gambles with his own money. He is also a micro-manager, with a pathological need to approve every transaction. Follow the money Dog. Ask the real questions. Don't deflect, investigate.

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3 hours ago, Remodel said:

What were they getting in return? Remember that Trump never gives anything away, and never gambles with his own money. He is also a micro-manager, with a pathological need to approve every transaction. Follow the money Dog. Ask the real questions. Don't deflect, investigate.

You're funny.

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4 hours ago, Remodel said:

What were they getting in return? Remember that Trump never gives anything away, and never gambles with his own money. He is also a micro-manager, with a pathological need to approve every transaction. Follow the money Dog. Ask the real questions. Don't deflect, investigate.

Here's a real question....At issue is showing a foreign national campaign polling data. What money are you proposing should be followed?

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