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3 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

So, if I pose as a waiter and icepick say, Mnuchin or one of the Koch Bros, then it will stop?

- DSK

Afraid not, the R's have become real life zombies ya kill one and another pops up, moving forward is winning,  don't ask them what they're moving forward to, its all about the winning.

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It's 7:00am, maybe, it could be 8:00am. It's hard to tell. The electricity has been off for, well, a very long time. The sun is starting to rise over the horizon with the red mist slowly lifting to li

Jack, I think you actually believe this. That's kind of scary, because it shows just how effective propaganda can be.  The dossier has not been disproven, administration and campaign officials ha

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4 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

I don't understand the USA at all.

Anywhere else there would be a reopening and a royal commission (or whatever other Republics have.) or something.

Not just a "bad boy, Oh well, too bad now, approach . It's so weird. and sad.

Foreign nations developed a concept of "managing Washington", in which they abide by a certain amount of BS in order to get what they want. For US politicians there is a similar construct. Managing the press. 

 They must accept the fact that pursuing criminal investigations against the other party's POTUS or ex-POTUS effectively means nothing else will be talked about, so if they want to get anything meaningful done they must abstain from it at the federal court level.  I think what confuses most foreigners is the idea of two different judicial systems, the state and federal. Most country's only really have one, they are made up of provinces, not states which have their own sets of laws. The great debates on making lynching illegal at the federal level are instructive. 

 In Trump's situation it appears several states will pick the bones fairly clean anyway, so there is a rationalization of not having to go after him with the federal courts at work.   

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5 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

A significant portion of our population and one major political party are committed to one person rather than our Constitution, and have been fed propaganda for so long that they treat anyone not in the cult as their mortal enemy instead of their countrymen. Our system requires agreement on basic facts. Ask Liz Cheney how that is going. 
 

This won’t stop until the Be$t Americans see their fortunes threatened and stop using their propatainmemt machine to divide the masses to the point of causing civil war. The minute the super rich see their fortunes and safety at risk, it will be stopped. Until then, they will keep Johnny Doublewide angry about socialism. 

Johnny Doublewide should have one of those R's with circle around it.

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4 hours ago, Mark K said:

Foreign nations developed a concept of "managing Washington", in which they abide by a certain amount of BS in order to get what they want. For US politicians there is a similar construct. Managing the press. 

 They must accept the fact that pursuing criminal investigations against the other party's POTUS or ex-POTUS effectively means nothing else will be talked about, so if they want to get anything meaningful done they must abstain from it at the federal court level.  I think what confuses most foreigners is the idea of two different judicial systems, the state and federal. Most country's only really have one, they are made up of provinces, not states which have their own sets of laws. The great debates on making lynching illegal at the federal level are instructive. 

 In Trump's situation it appears several states will pick the bones fairly clean anyway, so there is a rationalization of not having to go after him with the federal courts at work.   

Thank you. That certainly explains a lot.

Kinda like getting Al Capone on a Tax rap.

I see that there is an element of . "it doesn't matter what we get him on, as long as we get him"

But that's rather a cynical concept for unsophisticated minds.

Surely it ultimately undermines lay confidence in their lords and upholds trickery and sleight of hand.

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6 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Thank you. That certainly explains a lot.

Kinda like getting Al Capone on a Tax rap.

I see that there is an element of . "it doesn't matter what we get him on, as long as we get him"

But that's rather a cynical concept for unsophisticated minds.

Surely it ultimately undermines lay confidence in their lords and upholds trickery and sleight of hand.

  It's like how we left the Emperor of Japan be after WW2. 

   

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1 minute ago, Mark K said:

  It's like how we left the Emperor of Japan be after WW2. 

   

Yes, I can see the pragmatic side but how do you expect simple souls to navigate this complexity and understand it for what it is, pragmatics, and still hold hands on hearts and respect all that Apple tree humbug?

It's bipolar. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Yes, I can see the pragmatic side but how do you expect simple souls to navigate this complexity and understand it for what it is, pragmatics, and still hold hands on hearts and respect all that Apple tree humbug?

It's bipolar. 

 

 

Just don't expect perfection. 

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5 hours ago, Mark K said:

  It's like how we left the Emperor of Japan be after WW2. 

   

It's corruption for the sake of practicality.

And it's only available to a few.

 

It's not justice. And It's fracturing society.

 

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5 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

It's corruption for the sake of practicality.

And it's only available to a few.

 

It's not justice. And It's fracturing society.

 

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Just now, Shortforbob said:
5 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

It's corruption for the sake of practicality.

And it's only available to a few.

 

It's not justice. And It's fracturing society.

 

From our perspective and our Common law Justice and Westminster  system maybe.

Seemingly, a US president is a God that cannot be charged and prosecuted like a mere mortal.

They have this show trial called impeachment which is almost never successful and when it is. It's been shown to be meaningless. 

No US President has ever been prosecuted as we understand it

But you know all that.

Does this fracture society?

Personally I think that the USA has elevated all legal stuff to some cabalistic, mystic ritual that common mortals find awe inspiring yet incomprehensible . Terrified to challenge lest they become entangled in it's webs. 

Rather like religion.

And their health care.

Bit of a pressure cooker.

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18 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

It's corruption for the sake of practicality.

And it's only available to a few.

 

It's not justice. And It's fracturing society.

 

It's to prevent that fracturing.  

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15 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

From our perspective and our Common law Justice and Westminster  system maybe.

Seemingly, a US president is a God that cannot be charged and prosecuted like a mere mortal.

They have this show trial called impeachment which is almost never successful and when it is. It's been shown to be meaningless. 

No US President has ever been prosecuted as we understand it

But you know all that.

Does this fracture society?

Personally I think that the USA has elevated all legal stuff to some cabalistic, mystic ritual that common mortals find awe inspiring yet incomprehensible . Terrified to challenge lest they become entangled in it's webs. 

Rather like religion.

And their health care.

Bit of a pressure cooker.

It’s clearly like religion. The “founding fathers”

like they weren’t a bunch of slave owing aldulterers....

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1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

It’s clearly like religion. The “founding fathers”

like they weren’t a bunch of slave owing aldulterers....

Not all of them.  Just most.  Ben Franklin never got married, right.  So he was just a philanderer.  

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22 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Not all of them.  Just most.  Ben Franklin never got married, right.  So he was just a philanderer.  

Or a gay philanderer

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1 hour ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Not from here.

Justice needs to be universal, otherwise you get oppression. As evadent.

Or revolt.

When if gets so that the Hoi Poli can't judge between truth and lie, justice or oppression.

And the silly sods cant tell who's being oppressed.

They just know they're somehow being bamboozled.

They pick a side and revolt.

As Evadent

 

 

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8 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Not all of them.  Just most.  Ben Franklin never got married, right.  So he was just a philanderer.  

??

Ben Franklin was married. Had several children, including a son who stayed loyal to England

- DSK

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21 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Not from here.

Justice needs to be universal, otherwise you get oppression. As evadent.

So the Emperor of Japan had no responsibility for WW2?    

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10 minutes ago, Mark K said:

So the Emperor of Japan had no responsibility for WW2?    

Definitely had some.

But was not indicted because politics. MacArthur and executive wanted a peaceful occupation and reform.

 

Do you think the unequal application of justice leads to civil unrest and society's fracture?

Should the unequal application of justice be seen as a forn of oppression?

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2 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Definitely had some.

But was not indicted because politics. MacArthur and executive wanted a peaceful occupation and reform.

 

Do you think the unequal application of justice leads to civil unrest and society's fracture?

Should the unequal application of justice be seen as a forn of oppression?

So realpolitik fractures society...only sometimes. The thing in common between Hirohito and Trump is a lot of people worship them as gods.    

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1 hour ago, Mark K said:

So realpolitik fractures society...only sometimes. The thing in common between Hirohito and Trump is a lot of people worship them as gods.    

Except one revolves around rebuilding a country, the other revolves around tearing it down.

Maybe the world should constitute a criminal court and try Trump there for his alleged crimes under American law.

 

Sorry Mark, but comparisons between Hirohito and unequal justice in America is absurd.

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22 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Except one revolves around rebuilding a country, the other revolves around tearing it down.

Maybe the world should constitute a criminal court and try Trump there for his alleged crimes under American law.

 

Sorry Mark, but comparisons between Hirohito and unequal justice in America is absurd.

I thought we were talking about fracturing society. 

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59 minutes ago, Mark K said:

I thought we were talking about fracturing society. 

I thought we were talking about how grifting presidents walk free and how poor kids who get done stealing food for the third time end up in jail.

 

And it's fracturing effects.

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I would posit that when "justice" is so obviously tempered with Real Politic, and severity of punishment has an obvious correlation between the wealth, power and connectedness of the accused, well then yes, I might suspect that the longer it goes on, and the more obvious it gets, the faster the cracks open up.

Nothing like blatantly poking the poor, powerless and unconnected to cause a bit of a barney.

Trump's a great poker.

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7 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

I thought we were talking about how grifting presidents walk free and how poor kids who get done stealing food for the third time end up in jail.

 

And it's fracturing effects.

There has never been one justice system in this country. Unless they do something to screw the IRS (Leona Helmsley), or kill someone stupidly (I.e. did it themselves), rich folks only go to jail for robbing other rich folks or otherwise threatening the economic class structure. We have a feudal system.  We do not have equality. 

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3 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

On the other hand...has he screwed the Best Americans?  Could be.... Will he skip Bedminster season and bunker up at MAGA Lago?

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/553285-palm-beach-planning-for-possibility-of-trump-indictment

 

Interesting how DeSantis plays in that article.  Do you think DeSantis has another term coming?  Assuming he doesn't run for the big one or a national office.

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16 minutes ago, bridhb said:

Interesting how DeSantis plays in that article.  Do you think DeSantis has another term coming?  Assuming he doesn't run for the big one or a national office.

He gets re-elected easily and spends the next two years running for President by doing tv stunts and spreading bullshit designed to make Americans hate each other. The moment he is sworn in for his second term he will be done playing Governor on a day to day basis. 

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33 minutes ago, Fat Point Jack said:

Will he win that easily?

Maybe I should support Charlie as the sacrificial lamb and hold back Nikki for next time? 

Wasn't it sort of close last time?  49.6 to 49.2 against Gillum?  In my opinion, DeSantis hasn't done much to increase his popularity but possibly the election reform measures will skew it in his favor, and other people probably have other opinions.  Not sure Christ is the best candidate but hopefully I am wrong as he will probably be the Democratic candidate if he chooses to run.

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3 minutes ago, bridhb said:

Wasn't it sort of close last time?  49.6 to 49.2 against Gillum?  In my opinion, DeSantis hasn't done much to increase his popularity but possibly the election reform measures will skew it in his favor, and other people probably have other opinions.  Not sure Christ is the best candidate but hopefully I am wrong as he will probably be the Democratic candidate if he chooses to run.

The base will turn out in force for him.  He just signed the bill allowing people to have alcohol in cars, and will do a Newsmax-only event tonight from the Villages. He has his TV war with the press, and has been one of the country's leading bullshitters about COVID. When a scientist spoke out about his bullshit, she ended up with the FDLE storming her house. He clearly knows who the Real Enemy is.  When he got elected the first time all we knew about him was that he was a good little league baseball player who had a chin that was a comfortable resting spot for Trump's little balls. He beats anyone easily. Keep in mind the extra 200k votes found in Miami Dade, which all happened to turn out and be GOP voters. They won't be needed this time. It won't be close.

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3 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

The base will turn out in force for him.  He just signed the bill allowing people to have alcohol in cars, and will do a Newsmax-only event tonight from the Villages. He has his TV war with the press, and has been one of the country's leading bullshitters about COVID. When a scientist spoke out about his bullshit, she ended up with the FDLE storming her house. He clearly knows who the Real Enemy is.  When he got elected the first time all we knew about him was that he was a good little league baseball player who had a chin that was a comfortable resting spot for Trump's little balls. He beats anyone easily. Keep in mind the extra 200k votes found in Miami Dade, which all happened to turn out and be GOP voters. They won't be needed this time. It won't be close.

Hope to fuck you are wrong but the eternal internal pessimist in me agrees with you.  El Mirachi might have it figured out.  Find a nice sparsely populated beach in another country and just don't give a fuck.  Puerto Rico?  (yeah, I am aware)

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19 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

I thought we were talking about how grifting presidents walk free and how poor kids who get done stealing food for the third time end up in jail.

 

And it's fracturing effects.

You're living in the world of Oughtta Be and are confusing explanation for advocacy. Oughtta Be is a nice place, but it's not the world we live in.  Quite often we have no to go with the least worst of two bad options.  

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4 hours ago, Mark K said:

You're living in the world of Oughtta Be and are confusing explanation for advocacy. Oughtta Be is a nice place, but it's not the world we live in.  Quite often we have no to go with the least worst of two bad options.  

Fairness should not be optional.

Just because some believe a person of difference is better in jail than as a neighbour, doesn't make what some believe a less bad option the right option.

 

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6 hours ago, Mark K said:

You're living in the world of Oughtta Be and are confusing explanation for advocacy. Oughtta Be is a nice place, but it's not the world we live in.  Quite often we have no to go with the least worst of two bad options.  

You mean it's not the country you live in.

The disparity in sentencing between the rich and poor in the USA is blatant .

Just look at Epstein (first time), Paris Hilton, Kid Kennedy all the previous presidents men.

Rich kids getting light sentencing for rape or DUI.

And That's not even considering the Lawyers they can afford and comparing to the legal aid lawyers the poor get.

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18 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

You mean it's not the country you live in.

The disparity in sentencing between the rich and poor in the USA is blatant .

Just look at Epstein (first time), Paris Hilton, Kid Kennedy all the previous presidents men.

Rich kids getting light sentencing for rape or DUI.

And That's not even considering the Lawyers they can afford and comparing to the legal aid lawyers the poor get.

Ah, so this is about hating the US. That explains it. 

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Tuesday, 18 May, 2021

“We are now actively investigating the Trump Organization in a criminal capacity,” the office of New York Attorney General Letitia James said.

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1 minute ago, Left Shift said:

Tuesday, 18 May, 2021

“We are now actively investigating the Trump Organization in a criminal capacity,” the office of New York Attorney General Letitia James said.

f83e13fc005394433a6a76a793f11042.jpg

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1 hour ago, Left Shift said:

Tuesday, 18 May, 2021

“We are now actively investigating the Trump Organization in a criminal capacity,” the office of New York Attorney General Letitia James said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-investigation-new-york-attorney-general-letitia-james/2021/05/18/cd2f1288-b0cf-11eb-a980-a60af976ed44_story.html

Investigation of Trump Organization now exploring possible criminal conduct, N.Y. attorney general’s office says Former president Donald Trump speaks at the Conservative Political Action Conference in Orlando on Feb. 28. (Octavio Jones/Reuters) By Shayna Jacobs and David A. Fahrenthold May 18 at 10:58 PM ET NEW YORK — New York Attorney General Letitia James's investigation into the Trump Organization is now considered a criminal matter, James's office said Tuesday night, noting that officials with the former president's company were recently apprised of the development. "We have informed the Trump Organization that our investigation into the company is no longer purely civil in nature," said Fabien Levy, a spokesperson for the attorney general's office. "We are now actively investigating the Trump Organization in a criminal capacity, along with the Manhattan DA. We have no additional comment at this time." The attorney general's notification to the Trump Organization suggested a cooperative relationship has developed between investigators working for James and Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus R. Vance Jr., whose office has been heading a criminal probe into the company and its officers since 2018. Both officials are Democrats. A person familiar with the matter, who like others spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss an ongoing investigation, said the district attorney was not specifically mentioned in James's letter to Trump's company. The attorney general's decision appears to have increased the legal risk that former president Donald Trump faces in New York, where the parallel investigations run by James and Vance had already delved more deeply into Trump's byzantine finances than any law enforcement authorities ever had. Previously, the danger posed by James's investigation seemed to be merely financial — the kind of lawsuit Trump had faced from New York attorneys general before over his Trump University and his charity. Those cost him money but didn't threaten his liberty. Now, however, James could also seek criminal penalties. And she appears to be cooperating with Vance's office, a move that could allow the two wide-ranging investigations to share data. Alan Garten, an attorney for the Trump Organization, declined to comment. Trump and his representatives have repeatedly denied wrongdoing, saying the investigations are baseless and politically motivated. Eric Trump, the former president’s son and a top official at the Trump Organization, declined to comment Tuesday. Instead, he texted The Washington Post a video montage of speeches made by James, largely from her 2018 campaign, in which James criticized Trump and promised to challenge his policies and investigate his business. In one clip, James described Trump as an “illegitimate president.” In another, from James’s campaign, she said, “We’re going to definitely sue him. . . . He’s going to know my name personally.” A spokesman for Vance’s office declined to comment. His team obtained Trump’s personal and business tax returns earlier this year and is in the process of an extensive forensic evaluation of those documents and other records obtained over the course of years. The known focus of both state probes applies to business transactions and conduct in the years before Trump became president. Previously, the investigative team under James was pursuing a strictly civil investigation, which remains active and could still result in a lawsuit against the company and its executives. The notice from James’s office was sent in late April to attorneys for the Trump Organization. It suggested that criminality could apply to actions by current and former company executives and employees if the investigation finds wrongdoing, the person familiar with the matter said. It was not immediately clear why the two law enforcement agencies are now collaborating years into their previously separate investigations. Partnerships between the two New York law enforcement offices are rare. [In Trump probe, Manhattan district attorney puts pressure on his longtime chief financial officer] Vance began looking into Trump and his company in 2018 after former Trump lawyer and fixer Michael Cohen pleaded guilty to campaign finance violations in connection with paying off an adult-film actress who claimed to have had a sexual encounter with Trump. James’s investigation began months later in early 2019. Both probes have also focused on whether the Trump Organization — which was headed by the former president’s sons Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump during their father’s term in office — downplayed property values for tax benefits while inflating the value of its assets to obtain favorable bank loans. James’s investigators have interviewed Eric Trump as well as Trump Organization Chief Financial Officer Allen Weisselberg. The Post has previously reported that Vance’s office is hoping to secure Weisselberg’s cooperation in its investigation of his longtime boss. [Bannon criminal probe in N.Y. includes embedded investigators from state attorney general’s office] The attorney general and district attorney have also teamed up in a state court-level investigation of Stephen K. Bannon, a former adviser to Trump who was indicted in federal court for allegedly defrauding contributors to a private fundraising campaign. Trump pardoned Bannon in the federal case in January, just before his departure from the White House. Vance’s investigation into Trump and his company has heated up in recent months. His office obtained eight years of Trump’s personal and business tax returns along with related attachments — amounting to millions of pages of records. Forensic accountants and other analysts have been poring through the documents. To obtain the tax returns, Vance prevailed after a number of legal challenges by Trump, who fought aggressively to shield the material. Trump, breaking with tradition among sitting presidents, had refused to release his tax records to the public as his predecessors did. In 2020, the Supreme Court ruled that Trump was not immune from state court prosecutions, paving the way for Mazars USA, Trump’s accounting firm, to comply with a subpoena seeking the tax records. After another losing challenge to the subpoena by Trump’s attorneys, which made its way back to the Supreme Court, the records were turned over. Vance and James have also issued subpoenas for other records that are relevant to their examinations and have interviewed a number of witnesses

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4 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Tuesday, 18 May, 2021

“We are now actively investigating the Trump Organization in a criminal capacity,” the office of New York Attorney General Letitia James said.

But her emails. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
48 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

Who are you and what have you done with Jeff?

I am Spartacus.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Always wanted to use that line.

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Dismantling Donald Trump

Quote

Truth doesn’t shun the light of scrutiny. Even though the idea that innocent people have nothing to hide is sometimes used as an excuse to rob us of our liberties, it also has the virtue of usually being true. On Friday former White House counsel Donald McGahn revealed to the House Judiciary Committee that Donald Trump attempted to obstruct a federal probe of Russian interference into the 2016 election. There is no conceivable reason why Trump would do this unless he had something to hide.

Now, I thought the Republicans were the party of solemn concern about election security. Apparently that concern extends only to the 2020 presidential election, the one they lost, because committee member Jim Jordan denounced Friday’s session as “re-litigating the Mueller report” and a waste of time. But then, Jordan has similar complaints whenever anyone brings up allegations that he ignored reports of rape and sexual assault by the team’s doctor against his students when he was assistant wrestling coach at Ohio State University. Jordan’s position is that after a certain point you should stop bringing things up from someone’s past. I think Hunter Biden would have a thing or two to say about that.

Not to be outdone by Jordan, committee member and alleged child rapist Matt Gaetz stood straight and tall on his moral high ground and proclaimed that “Mr. McGahn is unable to identify anything unlawful on the part of the president or any other member of the president’s administration.” This would be true were it not for the minor matter of obstruction of justice, which is what Mr. Gaetz engages in every time he lies to the American people about his unlawful activity involving the transportation of underage girls for the purposes of sexual exploitation. Gaetz should count his blessings. So far regular and mandatory drug testing of members of Congress is not a requirement for continued employment. Perhaps it should be.

In a written statement Friday evening, committee chairman Jerry Nadler, a man free of moral and criminal embarrassments, said that McGahn “testified at length to an extremely dangerous period in our nation’s history — in which President Trump, increasingly unhinged and fearful of his own liability, attempted to obstruct the Mueller investigation at every turn.” McGahn, Nadler asserted, was “clearly distressed” by Trump’s repeated refusal to follow his legal advice in order to “shed new light on several troubling events.”

Friday’s testimony represents the culmination of a two year legal battle to put teeth in Congressional subpoenas. Congress has stopped short of taking the matter to the Supreme Court. SCOTUS could have made it mandatory that a congressional subpoena be obeyed. It’s possible Congress chooses to wait until America’s highest court has a less politically biased composition. That day may be coming soon.

 

In the meantime it is clear that Donald Trump isn’t just one of the worst presidents in our lifetime, he isn’t merely among the most corrupt men to hold the office of the presidency, he is without question or precedence the worst and most evil and most criminal person conceivable in American history to hold the sacred office of President of the United States. Trump’s was exactly the presidency Alexander Hamilton warned us of in Federalist 65 against “the abuse or violation of some public trust.” The twice-impeached Trump is the reason why Hamilton insisted that impeachment be a seminal component in the arsenal of the balance of power.

  

The revelations of the Judiciary Committee are only the latest in the dismantling of Donald Trump. Trump’s demise continues, his civil and criminal woes are accumulating at a prodigious rate, and if it really is true that no one is above the law, Trump will soon be in prison. And, as ever, ladies and gentlemen, brothers and sisters, comrades and friends, stay safe.

https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/dismantling-donald-trump/39374/

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Just one aside.... The Presidency of the United States of America is not a sacred office.

It is, rather the opposite. It has nothing to do with god, or a dedication to a religious purpose, although several, not the least of them, Donald J. Trump, have tried their hardest to deify themselves.

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