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It's 7:00am, maybe, it could be 8:00am. It's hard to tell. The electricity has been off for, well, a very long time. The sun is starting to rise over the horizon with the red mist slowly lifting to li

Jack, I think you actually believe this. That's kind of scary, because it shows just how effective propaganda can be.  The dossier has not been disproven, administration and campaign officials ha

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Whataboutism, deflection, minimisation, justification, and a few outright falsehoods they think will not get called on are all tools for a shyster defending a client in court. They are also considered count as, and tend to be just as ineffective as, a defence in the forums. 

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Former Trump aide Rick Gates to plead guilty; agrees to testify against Manafort, sources say

Source: Los Angeles Times

By DAVID WILLMAN FEB 18, 2018 | 11:25 AM | WASHINGTON 

A former top aide to Donald Trump's presidential campaign will plead guilty to fraud-related charges within days – and has made clear to prosecutors that he would testify against Paul J. Manafort Jr., the lawyer-lobbyist who once managed the campaign. 

The change of heart by Trump's former deputy campaign manager, Richard W. Gates III, who had pleaded not guilty after being indicted in October on charges similar to Manafort's, was described in interviews by people familiar with the case. 

"Rick Gates is going to change his plea to guilty,'' said a person with direct knowledge of the new developments, adding that the revised plea will be presented in federal court in Washington "within the next few days.'' 

That individual and others who discussed the matter spoke on condition of anonymity, citing a judge's gag order restricting comments about the case to the news media or public.

Read more: http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-rick-gates-plea-deal-20180218-story.html 
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A former Russian troll speaks: ‘It was like being in Orwell’s world’

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One of them, 43-year-old Marat Mindiyarov, a teacher by training, spoke by phone with The Washington Post on Saturday from the village outside St. Petersburg where he lives. Mindiyarov worked in a department for Russian domestic consumption. When he took a test in December 2014 to move to the factory’s “Facebook department” targeting the U.S. market, Mindiyarov recalled, he was asked to write an essay about Hillary Clinton. Here are lightly edited excerpts of the conversation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/02/17/a-former-russian-troll-speaks-it-was-like-being-in-orwells-world/?utm_term=.d248972df553

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2 hours ago, Bent Sailor said:

Whataboutism, deflection, minimisation, justification, and a few outright falsehoods they think will not get called on are all tools for a shyster defending a client in court. They are also considered count as, and tend to be just as ineffective as, a defence in the forums. 

The Doggy Style techniques. 

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16 hours ago, Bent Sailor said:

Whataboutism, deflection, minimisation, justification, and a few outright falsehoods they think will not get called on are all tools for a shyster defending a client in court. They are also considered count as, and tend to be just as ineffective as, a defence in the forums. 

Read...I can't cite one example of Dog defending Trump.

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There's quite a business overlap which shows between Manafort and Trump on the great Moyer Timeline from upthread.

 http://billmoyers.com/story/trump-russia-timeline/

If Gates is to testify, Trump's goose will be slowly cooked, indirectly, by portions of the Manafort trial starting May 14. I'm wondering if Mueller's Trump Report will be out by then. 

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43 minutes ago, another 505 sailor said:

For someone who doesn't support Trump, you provide a lot of support for him.

There's a difference difference between the two, and everyone sees it.

I know, yesterday I pointed out that the claim that Trump is a Russian agent is patently absurd. Not believing the patently absurd is to support Trump. 

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24 minutes ago, Dog said:

I know, yesterday I pointed out that the claim that Trump is a Russian agent is patently absurd. Not believing the patently absurd is to support Trump. 

Do you agree or disagree with his decision not to implement the sanctions on Russia that Congress passed and he signed into law?  

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7 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:
33 minutes ago, Dog said:

I know, yesterday I pointed out that the claim that Trump is a Russian agent is patently absurd. Not believing the patently absurd is to support Trump. 

Do you agree or disagree with his decision not to implement the sanctions on Russia that Congress passed and he signed into law?  

If not clapping for President Trump is treason, what do you expect disagreeing with him would be?

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40 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Do you agree or disagree with his decision not to implement the sanctions on Russia that Congress passed and he signed into law?  

I do. I also have a big issue with his budget proposal.

Do you believe Trump is a Russian agent or do you support him?

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Interestingly, Ivan Pavlov never used a bell as a stimulus. He used, at various times, a metronome, harmonium, buzzer, and electric shock. Never a bell. 

This explains why I get hungry when practicing with a metronome. I thought it was out of boredom.

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59 minutes ago, Dog said:
1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Do you agree or disagree with his decision not to implement the sanctions on Russia that Congress passed and he signed into law?  

I do. I also have a big issue with his budget proposal.

Do you believe Trump is a Russian agent or do you support him?

You answered an either/or question with "yes", in case you hadn't noticed.

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5 hours ago, Dog said:

Read...I can't cite one example of Dog defending Trump.

We know - you never liked or supported him and certainly didn't vote for him.

And Clinton was worse.

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7 hours ago, Dog said:

Read...I can't cite one example of Dog defending Trump.

I wasn't trying to. You didn't ask me to. I was pointing out that your narrow definition of support isn't shared by the world in general.

Like it or not "Whataboutism, deflection, minimisation, and justification" are considered defence of a person. It's trivial for anyone following the Trump threads to find examples of you doing each of those means of defending the man. Even in a court of law, I don't need to waste time doing things the way the accused demands - merely remind the jury of what they've already seen. 

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1 hour ago, Bent Sailor said:

I wasn't trying to. You didn't ask me to. I was pointing out that your narrow definition of support isn't shared by the world in general.

Like it or not "Whataboutism, deflection, minimisation, and justification" are considered defence of a person. It's trivial for anyone following the Trump threads to find examples of you doing each of those means of defending the man. Even in a court of law, I don't need to waste time doing things the way the accused demands - merely remind the jury of what they've already seen. 

Do you believe Trump is a Russian agent or do you support him?

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3 minutes ago, Dog said:

Do you believe Trump is a Russian agent or do you support him?

Have I accused you of supporting Trump because you won't label him a Russian agent or are you being a disingenuous, dishonest prick because you got called out?

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16 minutes ago, Dog said:

Do you believe he's Russian agent or not?

 

20 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

Have I accused you of supporting Trump because you won't label him a Russian agent or are you being a disingenuous, dishonest prick because you got called out?

 

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51 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

Have I accused you of supporting Trump because you won't label him a Russian agent or are you being a disingenuous, dishonest prick because you got called out?

I didn't say you did.

Do you believe Trump is a Russian agent?

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1 minute ago, Dog said:

I didn't say you did.

Please answer the question posed. Like the one I responded to, it is an either/or query. 

 

55 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:
59 minutes ago, Dog said:

Do you believe Trump is a Russian agent or do you support him?

Have I accused you of supporting Trump because you won't label him a Russian agent or are you being a disingenuous, dishonest prick because you got called out?

 

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1 minute ago, Bent Sailor said:

Please answer the question posed. Like the one I responded to, it is an either/or query. 

 

 

No, you have not accused me of supporting Trump because I won't label him a Russian agent.

Do you believe Trump is a Russian agent?

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15 minutes ago, Dog said:

No, you have not accused me of supporting Trump because I won't label him a Russian agent.

Do you believe Trump is a Russian agent?

Would you like to quote the post asking you if Trump is a Russian agent? I have gone back four days and nobody asked you that question.

On the other hand, is Trump a Russian asset? Definitely. Are you a Russian asset?

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Just now, Ishmael said:

Would you like to quote the post asking you if Trump is a Russian agent? I have gone back four days and nobody asked you that question.

On the other hand, is Trump a Russian asset? Definitely. Are you a Russian asset?

I could have saved you the trouble. No one asked me that question. I'm the one asking that question and no one has the balls to answer it.

Do you believe Trump is a Russian agent?

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1 minute ago, Dog said:

I could have saved you the trouble. No one asked me that question. I'm the one asking that question and no one has the balls to answer it.

Do you believe Trump is a Russian agent?

No. I believe he is corrupt and not very bright and likely has been blackmailed into favouring Russia when it counts. He is, as I said, a Russian asset.

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1 minute ago, Ishmael said:

No. I believe he is corrupt and not very bright and likely has been blackmailed into favouring Russia when it counts. He is, as I said, a Russian asset.

Thank you. On that charge you are a Trump defender. Taking a position favorable to Trump didn't make you a Trump supporter did it?

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Just now, Dog said:

Thank you. On that charge you are a Trump defender. Taking a position favorable to Trump didn't make you a Trump supporter did it?

How do you possibly see that as favourable? I also don't believe he dropped the Bomb on Pyongyang and probably wasn't behind the Great Train Robbery, but that doesn't make me a supporter in any way shape or form. Your internal editor needs a reboot. 

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32 minutes ago, Dog said:

No, you have not accused me of supporting Trump because I won't label him a Russian agent.

Once again, not an answer to the question posed. As I pointed out - it's an either/or query, just like the one you posed to me. Try again.

 

1 hour ago, Bent Sailor said:
1 hour ago, Dog said:

Do you believe Trump is a Russian agent or do you support him?

Have I accused you of supporting Trump because you won't label him a Russian agent or are you being a disingenuous, dishonest prick because you got called out?

 

It would appear, by your own conclusions about non-answers, that you lack the balls to do what you demand from others.

 

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Just now, Ishmael said:

How do you possibly see that as favourable? I also don't believe he dropped the Bomb on Pyongyang and probably wasn't behind the Great Train Robbery, but that doesn't make me a supporter in any way shape or form. Your internal editor needs a reboot. 

You reject the charge that he's a Russian agent. That rejection is definitely favorable to Trump

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Has there ever been a bill sent to the WH with 99% Congressional support and not signed into law by a President?  Ever in the history of time?  Why doesn't he want to slap the Russians around a bit?  I'm guessing Mueller will give us the answer.  

If I was being investigated of a crime that I knew I was not guilty of, I would work aggressively with the investigators to bring it to a close.  There's going to be a ton of shit coming out about Trump's ties to Russia.  

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6 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

How do you possibly see that as favourable? I also don't believe he dropped the Bomb on Pyongyang and probably wasn't behind the Great Train Robbery, but that doesn't make me a supporter in any way shape or form. Your internal editor needs a reboot. 

He is trying to equate being called out as a supporter of Trump as being the same as not accusing him of being a Russian agent. It's a false equivalence spawned from his butt-hurt about being called on his whataboutism regarding, deflection/distraction from, and minimisation of all criticism levelled at Trump.

He's a little whiny about the fact we won't accept his narrow definition of "defending Trump" as being solely a full-throated denial of all wrong-doing the man has ever been accused of. So we get this charade.

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3 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

He is trying to equate being called out as a supporter of Trump as being the same as not accusing him of being a Russian agent. It's a false equivalence spawned from his butt-hurt about being called on his whataboutism regarding, deflection/distraction from, and minimisation of all criticism levelled at Trump.

He's a little whiny about the fact we won't accept his narrow definition of "defending Trump" as being solely a full-throated denial of all wrong-doing the man has ever been accused of. So we get this charade.

Watch this Ishmael...

Hey BS .... Do you believe Trump is a Russian agent?

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16 minutes ago, Dog said:

Thank you. On that charge you are a Trump defender. Taking a position favorable to Trump didn't make you a Trump supporter did it?

This is not witty just sad.

You know what you are doing and the logical fallacy or you are just plain nuts.

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1 minute ago, VhmSays said:

This is not witty just sad.

You know what you are doing and the logical fallacy or you are just plain nuts.

No logical fallacy. Taking an obviously correct position that is favorable to Trump does not make one a Trump supporter.

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11 minutes ago, Dog said:

Watch this Ishmael...

Hey BS .... Do you believe Trump is a Russian agent?

Watch this Ishmael...

Hey Dog .... 

1 hour ago, Bent Sailor said:
1 hour ago, Dog said:

Do you believe Trump is a Russian agent or do you support him?

Have I accused you of supporting Trump because you won't label him a Russian agent or are you being a disingenuous, dishonest prick because you got called out?

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21 minutes ago, Dog said:

No logical fallacy. Taking an obviously correct position that is favorable to Trump does not make one a Trump supporter.

Here's what is true, and could be construed as "favorable to Trump: " He is not a zombie, nor is he a vampire or a lich. Trump has never anally raped a blind nun (probably). Trump has not personally invited aliens to destroy all life on Earth. Trump may have some organs that are worth harvesting. Trump has exhaled CO2 all his life, to the great benefit of plant life.

Those are all true, and they are all favorable to Trump. Now, am I a Trump supporter? What is the difference between what I say and what you say, Dog? You support him, that's the difference.

-DSK

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I did, ya slackers. Dog had you all twisted up in word games.

Washington (CNN)Special counsel Robert Mueller's interest in Jared Kushner has expanded beyond his contacts with Russia and now includes his efforts to secure financing for his company from foreign investors during the presidential transition, according to people familiar with the inquiry.

This is the first indication that Mueller is exploring Kushner's discussions with potential non-Russian foreign investors, including in China.
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Yep, I read about that earlier today - however if you only watch FOX you will be spared this information.  I picture the Trump supporters at a poker game demanding everyone show all their cards.  It's just getting started. It isn't going to end well for Trump, his pals or his family. 

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6 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

 

Thanks for that!  Nothing new or unknown here. Trump and his clan have been getting Russian funding after Bankruptcies, or like Jareds disaster 666 building for years.  About time the regulators paid this some attention....

 

"Washington (CNN)Special counsel Robert Mueller's interest in Jared Kushner has expanded beyond his contacts with Russia and now includes his efforts to secure financing for his company from foreign investors during the presidential transition, according to people familiar with the inquiry.

This is the first indication that Mueller is exploring Kushner's discussions with potential non-Russian foreign investors, including in China.
US officials briefed on the probe had told CNN in May that points of focus related to Kushner, the White House senior adviser and son-in-law of President Donald Trump, included the Trump campaign's 2016 data analytics operation, his relationship with former national security adviser Michael Flynn, and Kushner's own contacts with Russians."
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8 minutes ago, daddle said:

Jared and clan have apparently worn out their welcome in Russia. Jared is now in India, the only place more corrupt than Russia, selling his connections for cash.

Lot of good it will do him.

Exclusive: Mueller's interest in Kushner grows to include foreign financing efforts

Source: CNN

Washington (CNN)Special counsel Robert Mueller's interest in Jared Kushner has expanded beyond his contacts with Russia and now includes his efforts to secure financing for his company from foreign investors during the presidential transition, according to people familiar with the inquiry. 

This is the first indication that Mueller is exploring Kushner's discussions with potential non-Russian foreign investors, including in China. 

US officials briefed on the probe had told CNN in May that points of focus related to Kushner, the White House senior adviser and son-in-law of President Donald Trump, included the Trump campaign's 2016 data analytics operation, his relationship with former national security adviser Michael Flynn, and Kushner's own contacts with Russians. 

Mueller's investigators have been asking questions, including during interviews in January and February, about Kushner's conversations during the transition to shore up financing for 666 Fifth Avenue, a Kushner Companies-backed New York City office building reeling from financial troubles, according to people familiar with the special counsel investigation. 

Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/19/politics/mueller-investigation-kushner-foreign-financing-efforts/index.html?sr=twCNN021918mueller-investigation-kushner-foreign-financing-efforts0402PMVODtop
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5 hours ago, Ishmael said:

How do you possibly see that as favourable? I also don't believe he dropped the Bomb on Pyongyang and probably wasn't behind the Great Train Robbery, but that doesn't make me a supporter in any way shape or form. Your internal editor needs a reboot. 

His entire brain needs a cold start.

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666 Fifth Avenue, a Kushner Companies-backed New York City office building

Don't you just love the karmic implications of that address?

I'm actually surprised that it would be a street number - I would have thought it would be like the 13th floor superstition.

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5 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

666 Fifth Avenue, a Kushner Companies-backed New York City office building

Don't you just love the karmic implications of that address?

I'm actually surprised that it would be a street number - I would have thought it would be like the 13th floor superstition.

That's pretty much a hotel thing.

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11 hours ago, Bent Sailor said:

Ten minutes without a response is what you find entertaining... you need help.

I need help? You can't bring yourself to say what you believe to be true and I'm the one who needs help.

Do you believe Trump is a Russian agent?

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6 hours ago, Sean said:

Wow. There's all whole new level of doggy styling going on up thread. Impressive.

What, swapping agent for asset?  Someone prolly played that angle on a radio show yesterday. 

But you didn’t answer my question. Do you think that Trump is a Russian porcupine?

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8 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

What, swapping agent for asset?  Someone prolly played that angle on a radio show yesterday. 

But you didn’t answer my question. Do you think that Trump is a Russian porcupine?

I don’t know, but it’s an interesting question. 

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10 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

What, swapping agent for asset?  Someone prolly played that angle on a radio show yesterday. 

But you didn’t answer my question. Do you think that Trump is a Russian porcupine?

I didn't swap anything. My question has always been "do you think Trump is a Russian agent"? Are you also so painted into a corner that you can't say what you think?

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I think we need to brush up on the lingo - https://www.spymuseum.org/education-programs/news-books-briefings/language-of-espionage/

Agent

A person unofficially employed by an intelligence service, often as a source of information

Agent-in-Place

A government employee who is influenced to cooperate with a foreign government instead of defecting; now working for two employers instead of one

Agent-of-Influence

A person who works within the government or media of a target country to influence national policy

Asset

A clandestine source or method, usually an agent


 

B

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1 hour ago, Sean said:
1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

What, swapping agent for asset?  Someone prolly played that angle on a radio show yesterday. 

But you didn’t answer my question. Do you think that Trump is a Russian porcupine?

I don’t know, but it’s an interesting question. 

I think it's refreshing.

-DSK

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26 minutes ago, Sean said:

 

I think we need to brush up on the lingo - https://www.spymuseum.org/education-programs/news-books-briefings/language-of-espionage/

Agent

A person unofficially employed by an intelligence service, often as a source of information

Agent-in-Place

A government employee who is influenced to cooperate with a foreign government instead of defecting; now working for two employers instead of one

Agent-of-Influence

A person who works within the government or media of a target country to influence national policy

Asset

A clandestine source or method, usually an agent


 

B

Party Pooper. 

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2 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Who called him a Russian agent?

That's a very good question.  HAS anyone called him a "Russian agent"?

I have heard him referred to as an asset, a puppet, and a stooge - all of them described as unwitting.

I've never seen/heard anyone claim he was an "agent".

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"Agent" 1.)Not for. Opposed to.

"The Dog was agents Trump."

"Agent" 2.) A polite man.

"Jimmy Carter is agent."

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Drip...

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-lawyer/mueller-charges-lawyer-with-false-statements-in-russia-probe-idUSKCN1G41YM

 

Special Counsel Robert Mueller unsealed criminal charges on Tuesday against lawyer Alex van der Zwaan for allegedly lying to the FBI last November about work his law firm performed in 2012 related to Ukraine.

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1 hour ago, Mike G said:

Drip...

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-lawyer/mueller-charges-lawyer-with-false-statements-in-russia-probe-idUSKCN1G41YM

 

Special Counsel Robert Mueller unsealed criminal charges on Tuesday against lawyer Alex van der Zwaan for allegedly lying to the FBI last November about work his law firm performed in 2012 related to Ukraine.

These folks sure do have bad memories when it comes to Russia and/or Ukraine. 

Lying...hmm. I wonder if that makes the non-Trump supporters think more or less of him. He might just prioritize the truth differently. 

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5 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

That's a very good question.  HAS anyone called him a "Russian agent"?

I have heard him referred to as an asset, a puppet, and a stooge - all of them described as unwitting.

I've never seen/heard anyone claim he was an "agent".

No one has to have called him an agent for me to pose the question do they? That said, I have to give credit where credit is due. It was badlatitude who suggested that it was a possibility.

"Trump spent the morning blaming the FBI, CNN, the Democrats, President Obama, his own National Security Adviser, but didn't blame Russia or Putin. The man is being blackmailed, is an active agent, or is just plain stupid. You pick"....badlatitude.

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15 minutes ago, Dog said:

No one has to have called him an agent for me to pose the question do they? That said, I have to give credit where credit is due. It was badlatitude who suggested that it was a possibility.

"Trump spent the morning blaming the FBI, CNN, the Democrats, President Obama, his own National Security Adviser, but didn't blame Russia or Putin. The man is being blackmailed, is an active agent, or is just plain stupid. You pick"....badlatitude.

Two out of three ain't bad.

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9 hours ago, Remodel said:

That's pretty much a hotel thing.

To the best of my knowledge I've never been in a tall building with the 13th floor marked as such. They always go 12 - 14.

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2 minutes ago, Mid said:

How much fuel will Gates add to the fire ?

I'm guessing he knows enough to land Manafort on vacation for a while, which in turn, might cause Manafort to cut a deal and provide some dirt on someone up the chain.  

 

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