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On 8/25/2021 at 12:19 PM, allene222 said:

Great. Another opportunity to spend 30 hours watching someone work on their boat. I think if I can avoid watching the first episode, I might avoid watching others.

I must say I never thought Leo would finish his project. I know they always take way more time than anticipated and I guess in Leo's case it must be 10x as he thought he would be able to do it himself in 2 years and he will end up with at least 20 man years. But I didn't appreciate the power of Youtube to generate revenue and keep the project going. I am in awe of what he has done and for some reason I keep watching although I will admit to just starting to doing some skipping forward in the last few videos.

Allen

Having started my prof career in nav arch by graduating from a wooden boat program, i both deeply admire his projrct while si fsr being unmoved to watch more than snippets. I have too much of my own to do!

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Why? Leo has referred to this several times over the years. Technology has changed, but this boat is still being made by hand. However, the imperative and motivation back then, was and is no

I think Leo decided he liked the boat with rot, tradition and lineage included. He didn’t like the mangled foundations and decided that if he was going to replace the frames, he wasn’t just gonna copy

Great to see the boat moved safely.  But the new shed seems sterile and joyless compared with the magic of the old location with dog and parrot I expected that the stars of that episode would be

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1 hour ago, IStream said:

I have and love a U-shaped galley, but his idea of a fixed bench behind the galley could work nicely. Still, the sink draining issue on a starboard tack would get old quickly.

This is resolved with a sloping sink (not flat bottom).  

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4 hours ago, IStream said:

I have and love a U-shaped galley, but his idea of a fixed bench behind the galley could work nicely. Still, the sink draining issue on a starboard tack would get old quickly.

 

3 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

This is resolved with a sloping sink (not flat bottom).  

And when you heel hard on starboard, and the drain in the sink is below the waterline, how does a slanted bottom helps?

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1 hour ago, Laurent said:

 

And when you heel hard on starboard, and the drain in the sink is below the waterline, how does a slanted bottom helps?

The bottom is kinda slanted like this  \    /    So, either tacks ensure water settles in the middle and drains.  Its not assymetrical.   

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The thing I've found the most surprising is the seeming lack of bunks for any kind of performance crew. Considering one of the big goals for the project is the Fastnet, I would have thought there would be some pipe cots etc. mentioned.

Also as a racer, nothing is hurting my instincts more than him talking about piling weight and crew up forward in that private cabin, but i guess that's old boats for you.

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No matter the sink shape on my Wauquiez 42, if you are heeling to port anything over 10 degrees, you will fill up your freezer, fridge, etc.  My waterline is about 6 inches below the sink drain.  My kids have several jobs aboard the boat, the most important one is to close both head thru-hulls and that damn sink thru-hull!!

 

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9 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

This is resolved with a sloping sink (not flat bottom). 

Sure. Uh where do you buy a sloping bottom sink except a custom fab? Far better to design the galley properly and put the sink closer to center. The galley is way too far inboard as well. The depth outboard is excessive.

With his layout part of the problem is multiple missions

- cross oceans with a partner or small crew
- cruise with a partner or a occasional crew?
- racing from time to time.

It does mean compromise on an interior. Workbenches are over-rated IMO. I had one and ended up doing a lot of work in the cockpit (better ventilation) or dining room table (small projects and a nice cushy seat. A place for a vise is important.

A wee suggestion. Move the pilot berth and chart table a bit aft. Push dinette further to port. Make the galley U shaped and locate at least 1 sink close to centerline. Lots of room to get past the cook as well.

image.thumb.png.df6efb85fb408a69b28828a0a74af17b.png

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1 hour ago, bigrpowr said:

that will be some kind of ugly.

I just think he made things too heavy up high. If he does make the keel bigger and heavier he might be fine but there is really a lot of weight up high and I think all he is doing is moving some existing ballast down a bit. I hope he has had someone do a stability analysis. But I have my popcorn ready for the launch nevertheless. 

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5 hours ago, Beer fueled Mayhem said:

No matter the sink shape on my Wauquiez 42, if you are heeling to port anything over 10 degrees, you will fill up your freezer, fridge, etc.  My waterline is about 6 inches below the sink drain.  My kids have several jobs aboard the boat, the most important one is to close both head thru-hulls and that damn sink thru-hull!!

 

That is what I was trying to explain but MauiPunter did not get it. I was not clear enough, I guess. I don't care what the shape of the bottom of the sink is, if the drain is low enough to get below the water line on one of the tacks, the sink will fill up with seawater coming from the drain, unless you close the thru-hull, and the sink is then by definition unusable.

 

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Nice fidgeting Zonker.

It does solve the problem that we've all seen, by moving the sink closer to centerline.

The slight downside is the pilot berth is getting further 'tucked away' in the technical area.

I rather like Leo's solution for the focs'l and head area, very adaptable.

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8 hours ago, Zonker said:

Sure. Uh where do you buy a sloping bottom sink except a custom fab? Far better to design the galley properly and put the sink closer to center. The galley is way too far inboard as well. The depth outboard is excessive.

With his layout part of the problem is multiple missions

- cross oceans with a partner or small crew
- cruise with a partner or a occasional crew?
- racing from time to time.

It does mean compromise on an interior. Workbenches are over-rated IMO. I had one and ended up doing a lot of work in the cockpit (better ventilation) or dining room table (small projects and a nice cushy seat. A place for a vise is important.

A wee suggestion. Move the pilot berth and chart table a bit aft. Push dinette further to port. Make the galley U shaped and locate at least 1 sink close to centerline. Lots of room to get past the cook as well.

image.thumb.png.df6efb85fb408a69b28828a0a74af17b.png

Good ideas Zonks, but I think you may be underestimating how narrow the hull is at ‘floor level’. It’s no use pushing the counter outboard if you can’t stand right at it.

Leo might be able to squeeze out more space by reducing headroom somewhat, but that brings its own penalty in comfort levels...

These classic hull shapes offer a lot less interior space in all dimensions (except for bilge depth) compared to a modern hull of similar length.

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13 hours ago, Beer fueled Mayhem said:

No matter the sink shape on my Wauquiez 42, if you are heeling to port anything over 10 degrees, you will fill up your freezer, fridge, etc.  My waterline is about 6 inches below the sink drain.  My kids have several jobs aboard the boat, the most important one is to close both head thru-hulls and that damn sink thru-hull!!

 

Ah, ok.  Yea, I always turned off my through hulls to the sinks before sailing on my old boat.  There is no other solution to that problem.

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7 hours ago, Laurent said:

That is what I was trying to explain but MauiPunter did not get it. I was not clear enough, I guess. I don't care what the shape of the bottom of the sink is, if the drain is low enough to get below the water line on one of the tacks, the sink will fill up with seawater coming from the drain, unless you close the thru-hull, and the sink is then by definition unusable.

 

Yup, I didnt realize you meant water coming up into the sink.  I thought you meant draining.  Sorry.  You are right.  We had to close the seacocks on my last boat before sailing on the kitchen sink.  On our bathrooms sinks we put one way valves on them and that worked good for them to not fill with water.  

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5 hours ago, alphafb552 said:

Good ideas Zonks, but I think you may be underestimating how narrow the hull is at ‘floor level’. It’s no use pushing the counter outboard if you can’t stand right at it.

image.thumb.png.75a13c51218cc456ba5cadf5e3899350.pngYeah could well be. This is facing aft, galley area to left side of the frame. I thought it had more depth to the hull. He had to use some pretty big deck beams. Maybe carbon fiber would have been shallower :)

 

 

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8 hours ago, Beer fueled Mayhem said:

IMG_2480.thumb.jpg.558bb6fb9cd1d34400c171bafa40c0f5.jpg

Heading to Hawaii and playing the sink draining game after doing dishes!  I have a pump on the sink now when we are sailing.

This is why some sinks drain into a sump box, and then pumped overboard.

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Some minor tweaks to the interior design, but no consideration of the sink issue.

As someone completely clueless about wooden boats, I'm enjoying the fact that AtA is at a similar build stage so one can see two different approaches to almost everything, like the bulkheads currently.

 

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Leo addresses the U-shaped kitchen issue and indeed it won't work because the floor is has to be low because of the lack of a raised cabin roof. I suppose it's a slippery slope from needing a bit more width to ending up in a Bayliner. He also says there will be access hatches for the port side of the engine. 

 

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51 minutes ago, climenuts said:

Stan Honey has an interesting solution to the sink draining problem. Diaphragm pump with spring return under the sink operated with a line. Stops the sink flooding when the thru-hull is open and pumps out painlessly.

http://honeynav.com/emptying-sink-when-under-sail-new-counter/

 

 

I put one of those in - works a charm. 

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7 hours ago, Zonker said:

Not surprising his final layout came very close to my suggestions. Great minds etc.

Physics and logic too? No two things can occupy the same place at the same time, and you need the galley to be close to the dining area. Navigator has to be able to communicate with the helm, and sleepers want to be off someplace where they won't be bothered until it's their watch.  In a boat this narrow there are only so many options.

Though Leo does mention that he got helpful suggestions 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Never mind the dinghy... I am wondering how many thousands (millions) of dollars will have been spent by the time she is ready to sail. 

A- Excluding Leo's work and time and expertise.

B- If all of this work was done by a professional boat builder.

C - What would be the sale price once she is finished?

D- How many years it shall take to charter/ pleasure use  to break even including the maintenance and depreciation.

My good guess for item D is another 100+ years. For which the boat is re-built for. :-)

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Omer said:

Never mind the dinghy... I am wondering how many thousands (millions) of dollars will have been spent by the time she is ready to sail. 

A- Excluding Leo's work and time and expertise.

B- If all of this work was done by a professional boat builder.

C - What would be the sale price once she is finished?

D- How many years it shall take to charter/ pleasure use  to break even including the maintenance and depreciation.

My good guess for item D is another 100+ years. For which the boat is re-built for. :-)

 

 

Wasn't there a time when boats like this were routinely built and sailed?  What has changed is that the ability to do this kind of skilled work, and the materials needed, have become so rare that the value has skyrocketed.

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19 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

Wasn't there a time when boats like this were routinely built and sailed?  What has changed is that the ability to do this kind of skilled work, and the materials needed, have become so rare that the value has skyrocketed.

Not only that. The skilled labor who created these wonderful crafts had a happy fulfilled lives earning a decent life. 

They did not need to purchase and live in a house costing 1M dollars. They did not have to drive a Tesla car etc. etc.etc. ...

The greediness and consumerism of the modern world needs an eagle to feed. 

My best wishes for courageous Leo.. 

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15 minutes ago, MauiPunter said:

That huge bid killed the auction.

indeed and Leo showed his character by going ahead with the promised donation .

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

 

 

EPISODE 109

We’ve been busy! In this episode, we finish a bunch of big jobs that we’ve been working on for a while.

All the athwartship bulkheads are now installed, the Mast Partner has been bolted into the deck structure and carved out to accept the mast, and the final Teak plank of the Transom has been made and fastened!

In addition to this, I spent some days at our previous location in Sequim, sorting and removing some large piles of timber and catching up with Pancho.

Rowan gets go grips with the TIG welder and makes a fancy bronze bracket for one of our bulkheads, and Nina joins us to help varnish the Transom.

 

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Leo resolved the dinghy saga as someone bought it for more than the donation amount. He has all his deck materials now since someone reached out who could help with his Canadian Softwood Lumber longest running western world trade dispute import issues for the yellow cedar. So it looks like they are in great shape for the next while. Not that we expected anything less, but the extent to which skilled and knowledgeable people are willing to help out with this project is amazing.  

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Gold Sovereign BU PRE WW-I 1910 MINTED AT AN ENGLISH MINT KING EDWARD VII-DRAGON

An idea

It's long been a tradition to put a coin under the heel of the mast when stepping it for the first time.  

I propose to give Leo a 1910 British gold sovereign for Tally Ho, funded by his many friends here.

Looking at eBay and talking to local coin specialists, the cost would be $550-$650. Since I am exceptionally broke right now due to terrible medical costs, I'm suggesting that any of you guys who are interested could Venmo or PayPal me a small amount.  Once the total sum is reached, I will buy the coin and send it to Leo as a gift from all of us.  If you send me more than the total needed, I will make the excess a donation to his fund, perhaps for some deadeyes or a gaff jaw or a brass barometer.

Anyone who thinks this is a good idea and would like to contribute, just say "Yea" on this thread and I will PM you the payment details.

Cheers, JGW, aka P_Wop


 

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2 hours ago, socalrider said:

I like the idea as well, but I’d check w Leo before buying. He might already have an idea - could always donate the $$ if so. Happy to contribute. 

I just sent him an email to see if he might already have one.

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Hi, guys.

Leo let me know that he already has a coin for the mast step. "Great minds, etc..." what what he said in his email.

So I'd suggest your kind donations should go into his general fund. That is unless someone can think of another fine SA gift.  As before, I'm happy to administer.

Thanks to those who have stepped up.  It's a great thing he's doing.

Cheers, J

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12 hours ago, P_Wop said:

It's a great thing he's doing.

Thanks, J.  I think it's great, too, and have thrown a little "spare" cash at the effort from time to time,  I'll make sure to up if by 50 on your behalf this time.

_/)_

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  • 2 weeks later...

.

 

EPISODE 110

Lots of progress on the boat this week - Firstly, the guys fill the bilge with hot pitch, followed by some cement!

Although slightly disconcerting at first, cement is actually a really useful material in boatbuilding.

Richard has been working on the Bulwark Staunchions, which are made of White Oak and will support the Bulwarks, a kind of fence around the perimeter of the deck.

Pete has been making the aftermost deck beam, or transom cleat, which will support the end of the deck strakes.

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“Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing–absolutely nothing–half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.”

 

One Life Time ain't enough ...

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18 hours ago, Mid said:

Stanchions 

see all that work with electrical tools ???

now imagine back in the day ....

When I was a nipper in Cowes I remember an old gaffer working at Coles' Yard.  He'd calmly and almost incomprehensibly talk to you with the tiniest stub of a roll-up fag (cigarette) dangling on his bottom lip, as he sharpened his pencil underfoot with an adze.  Without looking.

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22 hours ago, Mid said:

Stanchions 

see all that work with electrical tools ???

now imagine back in the day ....

Watch any old industrial video and it's shocking how many people were employed for manufacturing. There's a wartime British shipbuilding film on YouTube where they stick one end of a ~50' steel beam into a furnace to heat it up for bending on a giant table. They pick the bar with a crane away from center so as to get more in the furnace and to counterweight it they just get like 15 guys to jump up and sit on the short end. Madness.  

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1 hour ago, Foiling Optimist said:

Watch any old industrial video and it's shocking how many people were employed for manufacturing. There's a wartime British shipbuilding film on YouTube where they stick one end of a ~50' steel beam into a furnace to heat it up for bending on a giant table. They pick the bar with a crane away from center so as to get more in the furnace and to counterweight it they just get like 15 guys to jump up and sit on the short end. Madness.  

Movable ballast!  Just like yacht racing really. 

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Old mate of mine was a carpenter/joiner who couldn't write his own name or do math.  He dropped out of school very young.  

He had a unique talent - when he wanted to cut a curved piece of wood to fit into a boat he would just look at it, draw a line on the wood and cut.  It fit every time.  

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On 11/24/2021 at 6:58 AM, ChiGuy said:

I wonder how many man-days it took to build the original Tally Ho

If Leo hasn't done it already this needs to be at least a segment if not an episode on a comparison between modern and original construction techiques...

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6 hours ago, Soton_Speed said:

If Leo hasn't done it already this needs to be at least a segment if not an episode on a comparison between modern and original construction techiques...

Why?

Leo has referred to this several times over the years. Technology has changed, but this boat is still being made by hand.

However, the imperative and motivation back then, was and is not, the imperative and motivation now.

Tally Ho was built based around a boat language and knowledge derived from commercial designs, but it was to be used for private and pleasure purposes. Bear in mind it was still being built by the minds and hands of those who only knew about building for a mostly commercial realm.

There is no comparison for that, now or then.

Back then a boat was not considered likely to last for 50 years. Without the forecasting and navigation technology we have now, luck and experience played a much greater role.

Utterly different mindset, expectation and utility. Boating for pleasure was basically non existent and at best a daytime pursuit.

Yards would know that a certain tonnage or size of vessel would take X months to complete.  But that would be for commercial fishing, cargo or pilot type boats. No such benchmark for "Racing Yachts". They weren't building pianos.

The imperative for Leo remains to make the 2025 Fastnet race to honour the Centenary of winning it. The quality issue will be as much about doing it right this time to ensure ongoing longevity and moreover pass the scrutiny of the Patrons and viewers who are funding this project.

Leo has very cleverly and graciously achieved all this and more. Admirers have been cultivated, naysayers defeated, and a documentary series to rival any big budget production is both the vehicle to enable this as well as being a by-product. 

We are all privileged to witness such productivity, creativity and craftsmanship. Also to be thankful for both the wisdom and foresight of the Albert Strange Society and Leo's previous Sequim hosts who enabled this dream to gather the momentum that has made it a reality.

Good on you Leo and your closely held community.

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9 hours ago, Boink said:

Why?

To 'show and tell' how the technology has changed and has enabled this project in the first place. It's an excellent teaching history moment to the wider world and those outside the sailing community - YouTube is available to anyone with a half decent internet connection.

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5 hours ago, Soton_Speed said:

To 'show and tell' how the technology has changed 

I think it's an interesting idea, too. 

I mean, there've been myriad examples where old and new have gotten blended together along the way... things like rough-trimming the keel timber with an adze (a millenia-long traditional technique) and then cleaning it up with a hand-held power-planer.  Simiar (in reverse) for fairing the hull - rough-faired with power-planer, then long-boarded by hand.  Etc. 

While the planks were being prepared, for example, they used a power-planer to shape the inboard faces of the planks to match the convex face of the frames... and I remember wondering how (or if) they did that in the old days.  In fact, I had the same kinds of questions about the frames themselves... why use trunnels to join the futtocks, as opposed to some more modern method (biscuits and epoxy? Or maybe a glued spline, as he used on the transom planks?)?  

So, yeah, I think it'd be interesting to hear Leo talk about why he chose certain (old or new) techniques in different scenarios, and how the modern technique differs from more traditional methods.

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.

.

 

EPISODE 111

It’s time to line out TALLY HO's deck planking - deciding the positions and sizes of all the deck strakes, the cover boards, the king planks, and so on.

To figure this out we take a look at a wide variety of different wooden boat decks in the yard, consider the different parts, and then draw the layout on the deck planks using battens.

I also take a quick weekend break sailing the beautiful schooner MARTHA around the San Juan islands, and we take a look down below and meet her captain.

Back in the yard, in the midst of a storm, we receive a large delivery - the Alaskan Yellow Cedar for TALLY HO’s deck!

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On 11/9/2021 at 5:53 AM, P_Wop said:

Leo let me know that he already has a coin for the mast step. "Great minds, etc..." what what he said in his email.

So I'd suggest your kind donations should go into his general fund. That is unless someone can think of another fine SA gift.  As before, I'm happy to administer.

Thanks to those who have stepped up.  It's a great thing he's doing.

I am glad that Leo has a coin being custom made, but I really really liked the idea of Sailing Anarchy contributing some memorable part of Tally Ho.

Many of us here on SA have gotten huge pleasure from watching Leo's videos, and the prominent billing which Tally Ho has gotten on the front page of this website has been a significant part of raising the project's profile.  So it would be lovely to have some permanent physical part of Tally Ho that could be "the bit that SA donated".

@P_Wop's idea of the coin was great: highly symbolic, and permanent.   Can anyone think of anything else that could be funded by SA which is also symbolic and permanent?

I thought of a few functional parts: bow roller, masthead fitting, windlass, tiller.  But maybe something more ornamental would be better, or maybe something bigger?

What does anyone else think of the idea of an SA-donated part of Tally Ho?   If enough people are interested, we could ask Leo what he would like.

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Did Leo say the original ship's bell was already on hand? Something like that, or a binnacle, or the galley stove might be useful and not something he'd make himself in the shop.

 

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12 minutes ago, P_Wop said:

I was thinking that a nice barograph in a mahogany case would be a fine gift.  We can make up an engraved brass plate, "From your friends at S.A." or something.

Perhaps this one?  About $1100.

https://www.naudet.com/compact-barograph-deluxe-version-c2x17630766

COMPACT BAROGRAPH DELUXE VERSION

Would have to change the handle to fit with the décor and  to get the period feel right.  A good option.

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15 minutes ago, Mid said:

Thanks, @Mid.

This section looks to me like the bit we are after:

OTHER BOAT PARTS; Certain boat parts from the correct period could be used for Tally Ho’s rebuild. Very few of her original fittings remain. Please get in touch if you have something you would like to contribute.

@P_Wop, since this is a development of your idea, and you have already been in contact with Leo ... would you like to ask him for suggestions?

I am happy to do it myself if you prefer, but I don't want it to look like I am muscling in.

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