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11 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

but that SailGP setup is a winner lol

Broken wings Injured sailors and broken grinding pedestals.

That series is less than stellar , NYC they barely got 3 boats on the line . Nathan’s boat was in shambles all season .

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And we have liftoff!!

I for one was happy to finally see an American team that didn’t just reek of assholes. Terry was a great bloke to have in front of the cameras and the intimate videos behind the scenes I found quite f

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46 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

but that SailGP setup is a winner lol

Broken wings Injured sailors and broken grinding pedestals.

If you are in an OD class and you break stuff, seems like that is up to you. Sure, there are risk/reward decisions you need to make and some of those involve the durability of your boat. Then you live and learn. The equipment in SailGP is much less complicated and much lower load in the same conditions. And they have made more of them. And the entire thing is OD.

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1 minute ago, hoom said:

Depends on how well or shitty specced/produced the OD stuff is.

Of course. Evaluate the class when you are choosing a class. Or get involved and help it get better.

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1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

It isn't worth trying to argue logic with Four, he has none.  True fanboy all the way.

SailGP supplied shitty one design parts, that ended up breaking. Wings were broken, sailors injured, grinding pedestals broken away from the boats, but apparently that's completely okay because SailGP is good and helping the sport. Fact is, its completely the same, yet ones okay, one isn't.

 

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6 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

That jeopardizes AC36, OD parts are supposed to not count performance-wise or why f’ing do it? 

Yeah it's bloody annoying when supplied OD parts like kingposts all end up different weights!

You would think they would have better quality control than that!

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8 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

They were reading the rule and counting on the thing f’ing working as advertised. 
 

The recent and aggressive ETNZ response to the allegations suggests a sensitivity to how potentially big this problem is. There is BIG money riding on it..

Here we go..will be four years of spinboy spewing about aggressive response, and top speed, and unusual weather

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7 hours ago, XPRO said:

The only example I can think of quickly  would be Pirelli tires in F1 where there are tolerances and if you burn them up that is on you but they are “safe to race”. But then again Pirelli supplies all and does not race against them and teams test those tires in test sessions and share access to that data with all teams.

There have been "lower" car racing series where one team provided parts for the whole series, which was a recipe for bad blood. It's not a concept that you want to use as a series organizer.

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F1 has done it successfully for years with ECUs (McLaren). The more interesting development is to allow manufacturers to design and deliver a limited subset of expensive parts, but all technical IP must be available to all teams. 

I don't think TNZ took this approach to gain an advantage and that it was well intentioned. The load testing video alone may support this.

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21 minutes ago, usa318 said:

, but all technical IP must be available to all teams. 

So do you seriously believe that they share all technical IP?

I don't.

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1 hour ago, usa318 said:

F1 has done it successfully for years with ECUs (McLaren). The more interesting development is to allow manufacturers to design and deliver a limited subset of expensive parts, but all technical IP must be available to all teams. 

I don't think TNZ took this approach to gain an advantage and that it was well intentioned. The load testing video alone may support this.

F1 the sport where the smallest budget for a year is bigger than an entire 3/4 year AC campaign

 

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3 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

F1 the sport where the smallest budget for a year is bigger than an entire 3/4 year AC campaign

 

And they have more spectators/viewers in one year than the AC has had in its lifetime...  

Easier to generate revenue if you have eyeballs watching it and customers thinking they can buy a piece of the technology in their new car.

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On Stuff interview.  

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/123770971/americas-cup-more-racing-under-consideration-after-christmas-cup-abandoned

TH said it was good to measure up yourself against the other boats.  It showed that their plan is working.  

He wasn't too keen about any more racing because they have everything planned out until the start of the Prada Cup and have no time for it.  He said that they have several changes planned, but none to the hull.

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25 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

And they have more spectators/viewers in one year than the AC has had in its lifetime...  

Easier to generate revenue if you have eyeballs watching it and customers thinking they can buy a piece of the technology in their new car.

The teams aren’t generating the money to pay for it through eyeball revenue. 
that all fucks of to the hedge fund dicks that own it. 

it’s billionaire owners, brands and car companies that fund the teams. Merc spent +400million last year

participation in the AC is pocket change in comparison 

 

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New York New York

Back in the early 1990’s I was sent by my company for a two year stint on Wall Street. I had just turned 20 and it was the opportunity of a lifetime. I was put up in Battery Park downtown in the most beautiful apartment and woke every day looking out to the Statue of Liberty. My balcony at the back gave a stunning view of the Twin Towers of the World Trade Centre, where a decade later I would sadly lose so many dear friends and colleagues. Work was really tough. I had a posh British accent and was wet behind the ears but the FX markets in those days were like the Wild West. Imagine the movie, The Wolf of Wall Street, it was madder than that. Insanely so. I loved it.

201219_sejr_americanmagic_46616-1024x102 © Sailing Energy / American Magic

Down in Battery Park there’s a marina and back in my day they had J24’s that they raced on weekdays, Wednesdays from recollection. I was in a bar called The Pipeline overlooking the harbour one evening, got talking to a skipper and ended up doing bow for the next two years – summer, winter, rain or shine. It was a laugh. The beers after were better than our sailing if I’m truly honest but I was in the scene. Sailing does that.

The guy I sailed with, I won’t mention his name, was connected to the New York Yacht Club. I think his father was a member and one summer me and the crew got invited to Newport to do some sailing. We hung out at the unbelievable summer house of the Club where I was too terrified to talk to anyone. The patrons were lovely though. Welcoming. They couldn’t do enough for us. Nothing was too much trouble. It was a magical, privileged time for me and the New York Yacht Club made it. Years later I raced for them in a regatta called the Viyella Cup and again, they were courteous, polite and bloody good sailors. I never got to go to the clubhouse in West 44th Street in Manhattan and it’s a lifelong ambition to do so. My club in Cowes has a reciprocal arrangement so one day I hope to walk those venerable, hallowed corridors and have a drink or two at the bar after marvelling at the model room. Bring on the vaccine.

On the evidence of today in Auckland though, entry to the Club could be about to become a lot harder. Security might be a whole heap tighter. Letters of introduction will need vetting and scrutiny. American Magic is in this regatta big time and are quickly becoming the favourites to challenge Team New Zealand in March.

201219_sejr_americanmagic_47927-1024x102 © Sailing Energy / American Magic

If it wasn’t for a foil issue, they had the beating of the Kiwis today. They look fast. They look highly motivated and they have an axis of genius in Terry Hutchinson, Paul Goodison and Dean Barker. Why Goodie is on the American boat and not Ineos tells you all you need to know about the British campaign. And it’s all to the benefit of the New York Yacht Club. A life membership awaits Goodie if they pull this off and I’ll be honest, I’m awestruck by the Kiwis but I’m cheering louder and louder for the Americans.

But I suspect it’s not just me. And I have an evidence of sort to prove it…

Last night I went onto the UK Helly Hansen website – they are the makers of the American Magic gear – to see if I could buy some kit. I am such a sad fanboy of the Cup. And it’s pretty much sold out across the board. I couldn’t believe it. Am I on to something here? Has the UK jettisoned Ineos so quickly and switched sides to our greatest ally on the world stage? It certainly feels like it. Turncoats the lot of us. Shameful!

But for the record American Magic – I am size medium.

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Terry’s Time

Throughout the 1990’s I sailed J24s and in the latter part of that decade, the team that I sailed with got pretty good. I was one fifth of a team called Fuzzy Duck – legends in the bar, weapons-grade at the end of year class-association gathering, wrecking balls at Cowes Week and somehow, pretty slick on the water. We got to a level to challenge nationally, flirted with Europe but always knew that there was another level.

201220_sejr_americanmagic_49573-1024x102 © Sailing Energy / American Magic

In Wales (of all places) in 1994, Ken Read came over to the UK already a four-time world champion (he went on to record six) and won his fifth title and the story of how his crew could steer the boat downwind through crew movement alone entered the lexicon of sailing myths. The American dominance of the fleet in that era was incredible. King Kenny moved on to bigger and better things only to be replaced by Bill Fortenberry, Chris Larson, Vince Brun and in 1998, Terry Hutchinson all etching their names on the trophy. The Americans were very very tough to beat.

201220_sejr_americanmagic_50655-1024x102 © Sailing Energy / American Magic

That ’98 win in J24’s was almost inevitable. Terry Hutchinson was a huge name on the scene in Corel 45’s and Mumm 36’s having already bagged a Congressional Cup in ’92. But it was just the start as he went offshore with success in the IMS division, won three world championships in the Farr 40 class and then found his forte in the TP52 class where the Quantum Racing Team were pretty well unbeatable.

Terry’s Cup career has been interesting. The America One challenge in 2000 that came so close and was put to the sword ultimately by failure of luminous sailcloth (I kid you not), saw Terry on mainsheet. Dennis Conner’s last hurrah Stars & Stripes campaign came in 2003, say no more. Terry then had a decent run with Team New Zealand in 2007 that saw the Kiwis through to the final but ultimately aced by Alinghi despite two race wins in the Match. A brief flirtation with the Swedes of Artemis in 2011 and then a near-ten year break from the competition before arriving as skipper and Executive Director of American Magic.

The Cup is a long game littered with disappointments, heartbreak and heartache. It’s difficult to win. So many elements have to come together: Funding, building, design, testing, team, support crew. If one element fails, you simply will not win. Ultimately success trickles up from the security guards at the base to the chefs, to the comms team, through marketing and up through the designers, boatbuilders, sailors, mechatronics team (!) right to the management and team principals.

201220_sejr_americanmagic_50362-1024x102 © Sailing Energy / American Magic

Hutchinson knows this game borne from long experience and what has been assembled at American Magic is exemplary. They have got so much right in this cycle. In Hap Fauth, Doug DeVos and Roger Penske they have Team Principals with quiet ambition, long experience and a firm hand on the tiller. In Phil Lotz they have the experience and respect to be expected of the position of Commodore of the most prestigious yacht club in the world. And in the New York Yacht Club they have the full, undying support of a membership that has been this way before. Meanwhile, Marcelo Botin’s design team are close to the best on the planet.

On the water, Hutchinson has assembled a no-nonsense team buried in the analysis and with their feet on the ground. Results are flowing. The performance is undeniable. Off the water, Terry is protecting his sailors on the podium, keeping the message on track and it’s the blueprint for how a challenger should conduct themselves. No controversy, get on with the job. Quietly let others take the limelight. Say the right things. Be courteous. Humble and then hit hard.

This is Terry’s time and the Challengers have got it all-on to try and catch them. It will be close with Prada but the world is waking up to the magic in American Magic.

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11 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

Indio, did you write those two articles? 

Hahaha Good on Magnus - he won;'t get any Xmas card from Team Brexitannia but will probably get some AM gear for Xmas from Hutch.

Dream Match for the Cup: AM Vs ETNZ.

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22 hours ago, fish7yu said:

Well, it seems that the story is already set, if ETNZ sucessfully defend the cup, it is because they supply faulty cant systems to the challengers. :P

Kiwi's have the herbie story after choking in '13 so why not. Benny has already faced his defeat so I guess he can just move on.

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15 minutes ago, cinnr said:

Wind instrument placement differs across the boats. LR & TR have them on the end of the bowsprit, whereas AM and INEOS have them on a wand at the masthead.

Should AM copy LR & TR?

No, AM are just fine doing their own thing. They've set their own agenda, developement plan and have executed it well, and the results show it.

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23 minutes ago, Chapter Four said:

No, AM are just fine doing their own thing. They've set their own agenda, developement plan and have executed it well, and the results show it.

Post race interview by Shirley Robertson, TH mentioned that he likes some of the ideas on the other bosts, so lets not rule out AM won't try to implement something outside of their original plan.

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3 hours ago, Indio said:

New York New York

Back in the early 1990’s I was sent by my company for a two year stint on Wall Street. I had just turned 20 and it was the opportunity of a lifetime. I was put up in Battery Park downtown in the most beautiful apartment and woke every day looking out to the Statue of Liberty. My balcony at the back gave a stunning view of the Twin Towers of the World Trade Centre, where a decade later I would sadly lose so many dear friends and colleagues. Work was really tough. I had a posh British accent and was wet behind the ears but the FX markets in those days were like the Wild West. Imagine the movie, The Wolf of Wall Street, it was madder than that. Insanely so. I loved it.

201219_sejr_americanmagic_46616-1024x102 © Sailing Energy / American Magic

Down in Battery Park there’s a marina and back in my day they had J24’s that they raced on weekdays, Wednesdays from recollection. I was in a bar called The Pipeline overlooking the harbour one evening, got talking to a skipper and ended up doing bow for the next two years – summer, winter, rain or shine. It was a laugh. The beers after were better than our sailing if I’m truly honest but I was in the scene. Sailing does that.

The guy I sailed with, I won’t mention his name, was connected to the New York Yacht Club. I think his father was a member and one summer me and the crew got invited to Newport to do some sailing. We hung out at the unbelievable summer house of the Club where I was too terrified to talk to anyone. The patrons were lovely though. Welcoming. They couldn’t do enough for us. Nothing was too much trouble. It was a magical, privileged time for me and the New York Yacht Club made it. Years later I raced for them in a regatta called the Viyella Cup and again, they were courteous, polite and bloody good sailors. I never got to go to the clubhouse in West 44th Street in Manhattan and it’s a lifelong ambition to do so. My club in Cowes has a reciprocal arrangement so one day I hope to walk those venerable, hallowed corridors and have a drink or two at the bar after marvelling at the model room. Bring on the vaccine.

On the evidence of today in Auckland though, entry to the Club could be about to become a lot harder. Security might be a whole heap tighter. Letters of introduction will need vetting and scrutiny. American Magic is in this regatta big time and are quickly becoming the favourites to challenge Team New Zealand in March.

201219_sejr_americanmagic_47927-1024x102 © Sailing Energy / American Magic

If it wasn’t for a foil issue, they had the beating of the Kiwis today. They look fast. They look highly motivated and they have an axis of genius in Terry Hutchinson, Paul Goodison and Dean Barker. Why Goodie is on the American boat and not Ineos tells you all you need to know about the British campaign. And it’s all to the benefit of the New York Yacht Club. A life membership awaits Goodie if they pull this off and I’ll be honest, I’m awestruck by the Kiwis but I’m cheering louder and louder for the Americans.

But I suspect it’s not just me. And I have an evidence of sort to prove it…

Last night I went onto the UK Helly Hansen website – they are the makers of the American Magic gear – to see if I could buy some kit. I am such a sad fanboy of the Cup. And it’s pretty much sold out across the board. I couldn’t believe it. Am I on to something here? Has the UK jettisoned Ineos so quickly and switched sides to our greatest ally on the world stage? It certainly feels like it. Turncoats the lot of us. Shameful!

But for the record American Magic – I am size medium.

Rather hear your point of view, You need to provide the writers identity.

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45 minutes ago, cinnr said:

Wind instrument placement differs across the boats. LR & TR have them on the end of the bowsprit, whereas AM and INEOS have them on a wand at the masthead.

Should AM copy LR & TR?

They want it there , lots of maths to keep it reading reliable correct numbers as the rig moves around. 

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2 hours ago, Indio said:

Hahaha Good on Magnus - he won;'t get any Xmas card from Team Brexitannia but will probably get some AM gear for Xmas from Hutch.

Dream Match for the Cup: AM Vs ETNZ.

Indio, I am not a regular poster here but I do lurk. Your mention of wall street in the 90s caught my attention. During those years I was a forex broker in Singapore. The market  24 hours and I worked the New York shift from 12 midnight to 7am local time. Sleep was about 5 hours after that ( not easy to sleep in daylight hours ) and mid afternoon i go hike in my laser. At 8pm I hit the bars with my seemingly no limit Amex corporate card , joining my banker clients and colleagues who just got off work from the regular day shift. By midnight I walked into my office to start work pretty sloshed. I hold the link phone to our new york office.

In 1993 the asia pacific laser champs came to singapore. Barker and Burfoot and other kiwis came. They were teenagers then and I was in my twentys. 130 lasers on a single start line.

Couple of years ago I had the luxury of cruising on a 50 footer from Kerikeri to auckland, stopping by Great barrier island and Kawa(spell?) island. Beyond words.

I am a TNZ fan but I hope Barker's time has come. 17 years of hurt has to come to fruition of some kind. My dream match same as yours but with American magic emerging winner. If TNZ wins, thats good for me as well.

 

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58 minutes ago, jh121 said:

Indio, I am not a regular poster here but I do lurk. Your mention of wall street in the 90s caught my attention. During those years I was a forex broker in Singapore. The market  24 hours and I worked the New York shift from 12 midnight to 7am local time. Sleep was about 5 hours after that ( not easy to sleep in daylight hours ) and mid afternoon i go hike in my laser. At 8pm I hit the bars with my seemingly no limit Amex corporate card , joining my banker clients and colleagues who just got off work from the regular day shift. By midnight I walked into my office to start work pretty sloshed. I hold the link phone to our new york office.

In 1993 the asia pacific laser champs came to singapore. Barker and Burfoot and other kiwis came. They were teenagers then and I was in my twentys. 130 lasers on a single start line.

Couple of years ago I had the luxury of cruising on a 50 footer from Kerikeri to auckland, stopping by Great barrier island and Kawa(spell?) island. Beyond words.

I am a TNZ fan but I hope Barker's time has come. 17 years of hurt has to come to fruition of some kind. My dream match same as yours but with American magic emerging winner. If TNZ wins, thats good for me as well.

Sorry if you thought I wrote the article - it's not mine. Magnus Wheatley did, on his Rule69 Blog.

Most Kiwis have a lot of time for Hutch so he'll have a lot of local support with Barker helming for AM. I picked AM to be the Challenger when they announced their Challenge, and I'm really happy in their progress. I would like a close Match with AM losing valiantly to ETNZ:D.

But I would not be too depressed if AM took the Cup off us..

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1 hour ago, jh121 said:

Indio, I am not a regular poster here but I do lurk. Your mention of wall street in the 90s caught my attention. During those years I was a forex broker in Singapore. The market  24 hours and I worked the New York shift from 12 midnight to 7am local time. Sleep was about 5 hours after that ( not easy to sleep in daylight hours ) and mid afternoon i go hike in my laser. At 8pm I hit the bars with my seemingly no limit Amex corporate card , joining my banker clients and colleagues who just got off work from the regular day shift. By midnight I walked into my office to start work pretty sloshed. I hold the link phone to our new york office.

In 1993 the asia pacific laser champs came to singapore. Barker and Burfoot and other kiwis came. They were teenagers then and I was in my twentys. 130 lasers on a single start line.

Couple of years ago I had the luxury of cruising on a 50 footer from Kerikeri to auckland, stopping by Great barrier island and Kawa(spell?) island. Beyond words.

I am a TNZ fan but I hope Barker's time has come. 17 years of hurt has to come to fruition of some kind. My dream match same as yours but with American magic emerging winner. If TNZ wins, thats good for me as well.

 

Kawau Island:    (ka wow)   :)

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2 hours ago, XPRO said:

They want it there , lots of maths to keep it reading reliable correct numbers as the rig moves around. 

Right, the bow sprit pivots on a turn and changes the readings.  The masthead should be close the the pivot point and give the most consistent data.  Of course it measures higher off of the water.

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^ The masthead readings would be very useful for managing the twist at the top. Fiddling with the mainsail must be a 100% concentration effort to keep these boats upright!

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2 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

East side of Bon Accord Harbour, about halfway down.

Oh okay. Did a lot of one night stays at Kawau - mainly in Mansion House, on the way out to HR. Even got towed back in to Kawau from HR by a trawler when the impeller got chewed out one time.

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I thought it was interesting to hear Terry talk that it was reassuring to see some of the other teams pick up and use some of AM's ideas.

Which ideas do you think he was talking about?  Here are a few of my guesses. 

- running with the foil breaking the surface

- a sharp edge on the bottom of the keelson (LR added one and NZ now has one)

- wide back end for support (of course UK had it also)

- boom (UK switched to a boom, but that may not be an endorsement... lol)

- ??? what do you guys think?

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13 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

NZ now has one

They had one from the get go. They didn't add one.

 

15 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

- ??? what do you guys think?

Talk from the commentators is that AM have used their entire foil allocation. To me they're in danger of peaking too early. Having watched the races a few times now, I think they're still a click behind the Kiwis, both up and down. Maybe not a Ben Ainslie click, but a click nonetheless. The Kiwis chewed up a couple of sizable leads. In their second race, once the Kiwis were ahead they extended. AM couldn't keep it close - which is usually the sign of a faster boat.

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3 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

They had one from the get go. They didn't add one.

 

Talk from the commentators is that AM have used their entire foil allocation. To me they're in danger of peaking too early. Having watched the races a few times now, I think they're still a click behind the Kiwis, both up and down. Maybe not a Ben Ainslie click, but a click nonetheless. The Kiwis chewed up a couple of sizable leads. In their second race, once the Kiwis were ahead they extended. AM couldn't keep it close - which is usually the sign of a faster boat.

They were sandbagging:ph34r:

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15 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

They had one from the get go. They didn't add one.

 

Talk from the commentators is that AM have used their entire foil allocation. To me they're in danger of peaking too early. Having watched the races a few times now, I think they're still a click behind the Kiwis, both up and down. Maybe not a Ben Ainslie click, but a click nonetheless. The Kiwis chewed up a couple of sizable leads. In their second race, once the Kiwis were ahead they extended. AM couldn't keep it close - which is usually the sign of a faster boat.

Ben ain't a click behind. He is a head on collision between two super tankers behind.

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2 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

I thought it was interesting to hear Terry talk that it was reassuring to see some of the other teams pick up and use some of AM's ideas.

 ....

- a sharp edge on the bottom of the keelson (LR added one and NZ now has one)

 

Haven’t had my morning coffee yet, but I thought it was INEOS that had it first, in Cagliari

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3 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

 

- a sharp edge on the bottom of the keelson (LR added one and NZ now has one)

Rita 1 was the 1st to add a sharp edge on the bottom of the boat.

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8 hours ago, Xlot said:

Haven’t had my morning coffee yet, but I thought it was INEOS that had it first, in Cagliari

I think INEOS modification was more of a quick way to add depth and simulate adding a keel to their flat bottom boat that just happen to be a sharp edge.  It looked like they cut a groove in the bottom of the boat and stuck in a long sheet of graphite.  

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11 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

They had one from the get go. They didn't add one.

Not with B1.  It is on B2, but that was still under construction when Patriot was launched.  It only took LR a few days to add it to their B2 (albeit, not as nicely as on the NZ boat).

We do no know if it was in NZ original B2 design.  

I was just trying to come up with what possible design concepts that Terry thinks the other boats got from them.  

You guys have any other possibilities.

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6 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

Not with B1.  It is on B2, but that was still under construction when Patriot was launched.  It only took LR a few days to add it to their B2 (albeit, not as nicely as on the NZ boat).

We do no know if it was in NZ original B2 design.  

I was just trying to come up with what possible design concepts that Terry thinks the other boats got from them.  

You guys have any other possibilities.

Glenn said everyones B2's had been signed off before the B1's were launched, Pete also said Te Rehutai is meticulous in her design, and every part has been thought out, so I'm betting the blade was part of the original Te Rehutai design.

 

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IMO the main reason AM ended up 2nd is because they were practiced. Both in B1 and B2. It was telling that the one team with the least amount of practice (obviously) ended up winning it. Once the other teams get faster and more practiced, they'll start to pass AM.

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Once AM starts using their full sail inventory they'll go quicker again.....and I can see additional funding coming in now that they've had a good showing. Will ENTZ be scared of AM? Barker, Hutchinson and Goodison are solid.....and if they can put ENTZ under pressure in the start box the mistakes will start coming i think.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Glenn said everyones B2's had been signed off before the B1's were launched, Pete also said Te Rehutai is meticulous in her design, and every part has been thought out, so I'm betting the blade was part of the original Te Rehutai design.

 

Yes of course, it is perfect.   lol....  you are a trumper 

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4 hours ago, Forourselves said:

IMO the main reason AM ended up 2nd is because they were practiced. Both in B1 and B2. It was telling that the one team with the least amount of practice (obviously) ended up winning it. Once the other teams get faster and more practiced, they'll start to pass AM.

Are you suggesting AM has peaked too early, 4?

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4 hours ago, Forourselves said:

IMO the main reason AM ended up 2nd is because they were practiced. Both in B1 and B2. It was telling that the one team with the least amount of practice (obviously) ended up winning it. Once the other teams get faster and more practiced, they'll start to pass AM.

You said have always said that AM is the sloppiest, they can't stay out of the water, they have no where near the time on the water as NZ, etc...  

You must really fear AM.

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2 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

Facts are not a popular currency around here.. 

Come on now, we all know that UK had the spline added to the center of the B1 hull.  I just considered it more of a quick fix (within the change limit) to test for the end plating effect.  No one would consider that a finished design or a mock up of the finished product.  It is fine, we can have a difference of opinion, but do go accusing me of lying!

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38 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

You said have always said that AM is the sloppiest, they can't stay out of the water, they have no where near the time on the water as NZ, etc...  

You must really fear AM.

I’ve always said Defiant was a dog. It was. Defiant excelled in conditions outside of race conditions, had trouble getting up and staying up and was difficult in manoeuvres. All true statements. Patriot is an obviously quick boat, but they’ve also clearly had the most time on the water. Blair Tuke stated that at Te Rehutai’s launch. That AM had already ticked up 20 or so days by the time they launched. Stands to reason that AM are far more comfortable with their package than the other teams. I’ve always said Dean is quick out of the blocks, and he is again, but his biggest problem is maintaining that edge all the way through. Dean is a strong starter but a weak finisher. Burling is the opposite, a weak starter but a strong finisher. In the AC game, it’s about finishing strong. Something Deans campaigns have trouble with. This looks to be going the same way. AM we’re clearly the strongest team after day 1, but took a couple of critical defeats to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. 

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13 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

I’m suggesting maybe they’ve given too much away.

I think a lot has been given away, now. Just look at the race telemetry and port/starboard entry footage, we've all been salivating over. 

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1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

Come on now, we all know that UK had the spline added to the center of the B1 hull.  I just considered it more of a quick fix (within the change limit) to test for the end plating effect.  No one would consider that a finished design or a mock up of the finished product.  It is fine, we can have a difference of opinion, but do go accusing me of lying!

Oh calm down I didn’t quote you, apportion anything to you just made a statement that applies to every single one of us.

NONE of us are in possession of cast iron facts when we blather on about speed or how to fix this or that or who did it first, so chill out 

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2 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

I think a lot has been given away, now. Just look at the race telemetry and port/starboard entry footage, we've all been salivating over. 

True. But it really depends on how much is left in the tank I guess. LR seemed to be just going through the motions so maybe they’ve still got a little bit left in the tank yet. AM seemed to be racing hard. There was certainly a lot of urgency in Dean Barker over the 3 days, where Spithill and Bruni seemed to be content to get around the course. Ineos are dog tucker unless they find some speed over the next few weeks. Time will tell how much info the Americans may have given away.

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Well you can do a lot of stuff but you won't be on the water while you are doing it. Reworking the foils on Ineos would mean a lot of time off the water. When Prada go to their final foil package not much time to work it up before they have to race for real. That window for the Challengers is getting small!

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7 hours ago, Chris UK said:

Once AM starts using their full sail inventory they'll go quicker again.....and I can see additional funding coming in now that they've had a good showing. Will ENTZ be scared of AM? Barker, Hutchinson and Goodison are solid.....and if they can put ENTZ under pressure in the start box the mistakes will start coming i think.

 

 

They might get funding but not very long time to make meaningful use of it.

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7 hours ago, Chris UK said:

Once AM starts using their full sail inventory they'll go quicker again.....and I can see additional funding coming in now that they've had a good showing. Will ENTZ be scared of AM? Barker, Hutchinson and Goodison are solid.....and if they can put ENTZ under pressure in the start box the mistakes will start coming i think.

 

 

Ben is solid too, but everyone looks ordinary when they're driving a pig...

 

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Probably too late for AM to given away anything of great value and they may still have a few arrows in their quiver.  Who knows.  Or maybe they’re following the old Coutts philosophy of freezing the basic design early and then sailing the hell out of it.  No matter, it will be fun to watch.

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5 minutes ago, classfve said:

Probably too late for AM to given away anything of great value and they may still have a few arrows in their quiver.  Who knows.  Or maybe they’re following the old Coutts philosophy of freezing the basic design early and then sailing the hell out of it.  No matter, it will be fun to watch.

Freezing the major components early might work, but too many times we have seen a seemingly quite dominant boat early on fail at the last hurdle because the team rested on its laurels.

KZ7 is my earliest recollection of that. It was seemingly a bit of a rocket ship until it really counted, at which point Dennis the Menace had overtaken it.

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5 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Dean is a strong starter but a weak finisher. Burling is the opposite, a weak starter but a strong finisher. In the AC game, it’s about finishing strong. Something Deans campaigns have trouble with. This looks to be going the same way. AM we’re clearly the strongest team after day 1, but took a couple of critical defeats to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. 

What are you mentally, about 6 years old? Geezus! :D 
 

You try to personify people and attack them instead of addressing real facts, it’s as if you are in a pre-school food fight. Yes, BA addressed the FCS problems they had, and because you took that as a shot at ETNZ you are all frothy-mouthed about enemy-Ben now. Give us a freaking break, your opinion is not better for being a GD or PB cock sucker, it’s worse because of it. 
 

Dean is a great talent and looks to be very much in his element with AM. 

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On 12/21/2020 at 2:46 PM, MaxHugen said:

^ The masthead readings would be very useful for managing the twist at the top. Fiddling with the mainsail must be a 100% concentration effort to keep these boats upright!

I think you will find both ETNZ and Prada are using solid state wind instruments at the masthead.

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29 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Freezing the major components early might work, but too many times we have seen a seemingly quite dominant boat early on fail at the last hurdle because the team rested on its laurels.

KZ7 is my earliest recollection of that. It was seemingly a bit of a rocket ship until it really counted, at which point Dennis the Menace had overtaken it.

S+S did not overtake KZ7 in componentry. KZ7 was (and still is) a better all round yacht. S+S hull design suited the Gage Roads sea conditions better.

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14 minutes ago, Don said:

I think you will find both ETNZ and Prada are using solid state wind instruments at the masthead.

So are they doing extra wind stuff with the wind instrument on the end of the bowsprit?

Last race, when ineos and tr were next to each other, iirc true wind from ineos was about 10 kts and tr was reporting about 8 kits. To me thats easily explained by masthead vs deck level wind speed differences.

Are you saying the kiwis are up to some tricky tricks with instruments?

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45 minutes ago, Don said:

S+S did not overtake KZ7 in componentry. KZ7 was (and still is) a better all round yacht. S+S hull design suited the Gage Roads sea conditions better.

So you're argument is that the LVC Final should have been run on a lake, despite the venue being Fremantle and THEN KZ7 would have won?

By your own admission, S&S was a better boat for the venue at which the LVC was held and hence was a better boat.

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

What are you mentally, about 6 years old? Geezus! :D 
 

You try to personify people and attack them instead of addressing real facts, it’s as if you are in a pre-school food fight. Yes, BA addressed the FCS problems they had, and because you took that as a shot at ETNZ you are all frothy-mouthed about enemy-Ben now. Give us a freaking break, your opinion is not better for being a GD or PB cock sucker, it’s worse because of it. 
 

Dean is a great talent and looks to be very much in his element with AM. 

Ironic. How far did you and your little friend Tommy go with the MBIE investigation? Now you expect me to believe you had nothing to do with trying to constantly keep the nothing story relevant? You were the one getting all frothy mouthed saying Dalton is arguing with Dalton and heads must roll and GD won’t be CEO of both entities when the investigation wrapped up? We were all trying to tell you there was nothing, but for so long you harped on about it like there was something to it. And there wasn’t. So you have no room or credibility insulting me after your little vendetta against Dalton and ETNZ turned up sweet fuck all. Now your go to line is oh they had a 6 month advantage? And??? That is the way of the AC. Always has been, always will be. As far as Dean goes, his track record isn’t a great one. 

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17 minutes ago, barfy said:

I was most impressed at the end of the final presser Terry left the stage last, shook hands with Ben, gave Pete a slap on the back as he went past. Kudos.

All around good guy. Seems his previous times in NZ have really rubbed off on him.

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3 hours ago, cinnr said:

So are they doing extra wind stuff with the wind instrument on the end of the bowsprit?

Last race, when ineos and tr were next to each other, iirc true wind from ineos was about 10 kts and tr was reporting about 8 kits. To me thats easily explained by masthead vs deck level wind speed differences.

Are you saying the kiwis are up to some tricky tricks with instruments?

The last cup was the same, its not new to put a wand on the bowsprit, its just different kinds of data. You could even do it on your own boat, it's just an expensive way to ruin an anemometer and you wouldn't gain much at low speed. The bowsprit instrument gets ground level wind, but clean of any disruption from the yacht, the mast head gets the higher up wind, but disturbed by the upwash of the sails.

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27 minutes ago, barfy said:

I was most impressed at the end of the final presser Terry left the stage last, shook hands with Ben, gave Pete a slap on the back as he went past. Kudos.

 

9 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

All around good guy. Seems his previous times in NZ have really rubbed off on him.

Although ETNZ is my favorite team, I must admit that I'm also a big fan of AM. They are so likeable. 

Unfortunately their money backers are scum, but so are ETNZ's and Ineos', and I don't want to know where and under which circumstances Prada makes its stuff. 

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