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4 minutes ago, Vin said:

Such lessons transcend sport...I know it affected my 12 year old. He was particularly struck by the pics / video of Burling helping out (a guy he met in Newport at the last VOR stopover). Literally their rivals in every sense of the word. Ken Read mentioned the “sailors code”. It I was this in spades. That is the beauty of sport (well...sometimes). 

What I love is that the worst tends to expose the best in our sport. There are always going to be legal messes and endless shitfights in the America’s Cup. However, this was a perfect example of how the actual sailors and support crews feel. I had the same warm and fuzzy feeling last cycle when Ben was on the radio asking permission to let their support boat jump in to help ETNZ. AM just happened to figure out a hilarious way to show gratitude, and probably score a PR win for every team at once, while somehow making themselves the lovable underdog. It’s just a fun day. 

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And we have liftoff!!

I for one was happy to finally see an American team that didn’t just reek of assholes. Terry was a great bloke to have in front of the cameras and the intimate videos behind the scenes I found quite f

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2 hours ago, zillafreak said:

I think I see a patch.

If you look on the topside, between the band aids and the foil, you can see another ... ummm ... discontinuity.

Won't make sod all difference once it's in the air, of course.

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4 hours ago, Monkey said:

Some of you Kiwis are heartless cunts. The guy was given inferior boats, yet turned in respectable results. What else can you ask for?

Welcome to NZ - Home of the "Tall Poppy Syndrome"......

 

DB was the chosen one, anointed by RC himself in that last race before he ( a large core) shot the gap to Ainghi and the 1st DB era campaign hit the sea floor rightly or wrongly he was held accountable for the design flaws / failures... rig breakages..... and all the rest of the crap.

DB is an intensely private guy, he was painfully shy back when he was on the RNZYS YTS sp roll round into SFO he gets absolutely crucified as has been documented here and elsewhere.

NZ by and large doesn't forgive nor tolerate failure by their National sporting teams and hero's - end of story, in a country that has had it's own issues early on, part of the British Commonwealth, it's parliamentary system/ Justice system / even the Health system FFS were completely modeled after the UK's. From a population of approx 4.9 million (NYC metro has (or had) approx 19m.....

Punched above it's weight in Sport world war's and conflict's, in general, make a true friendship with a Kiwi you have someone who has your back to hell's reception area....

 

So what can you ask for as a Kiwi? To win... He's not the only Kiwi held in a bad light from sporting failures

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12 minutes ago, Piet56 said:

NZ by and large doesn't forgive nor tolerate failure by their National sporting teams and hero's - end of story,

Utter tripe your comments may have held some weight many moons ago but look at the recent Rugby World Cup loss life went on we are more pragmatic than your narrow perspective paints.

If the Poisoned Chalice leaves for foreign shores hey it is what it is there are more pressing national issues that urgently require our focus and attention.

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8 minutes ago, Piet56 said:

Welcome to NZ - Home of the "Tall Poppy Syndrome"......

 

DB was the chosen one, anointed by RC himself in that last race before he ( a large core) shot the gap to Ainghi and the 1st DB era campaign hit the sea floor rightly or wrongly he was held accountable for the design flaws / failures... rig breakages..... and all the rest of the crap.

DB is an intensely private guy, he was painfully shy back when he was on the RNZYS YTS sp roll round into SFO he gets absolutely crucified as has been documented here and elsewhere.

NZ by and large doesn't forgive nor tolerate failure by their National sporting teams and hero's - end of story, in a country that has had it's own issues early on, part of the British Commonwealth, it's parliamentary system/ Justice system / even the Health system FFS were completely modeled after the UK's. From a population of approx 4.9 million (NYC metro has (or had) approx 19m.....

Punched above it's weight in Sport world war's and conflict's, in general, make a true friendship with a Kiwi you have someone who has your back to hell's reception area....

 

So what can you ask for as a Kiwi? To win... He's not the only Kiwi held in a bad light from sporting failures

Until you redeem yourself

See Beaver as an example. 

 

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5 hours ago, Monkey said:

Some of you Kiwis are heartless cunts. The guy was given inferior boats, yet turned in respectable results. What else can you ask for?

The guy was skipper. As skipper he calls the shots. He makes the decisions not only on the boat, but also every decision that leads up to designing and building that boat. As the guy who makes the decisions, you should be held accountable for those decisions. 

In the video "Black Magic - The Team NZ story" Blakey summed it up. "The skipper had to be involved in all the key decisions to do with the boat, and the trial program, and the sail program everything else, he had to know all about it, it had to be his".

The 95 program no doubt had Russell Coutts fingerprints all over it - and he got the results.

Glenn Ashby did the same in Bermuda. As stated in the "The birth of foiling" video, clearly Ashby wanted the team to go in a certain direction, he wanted the team to implement the bike system, but also needed his team to keep it under wraps and he also wanted the team to have a new look and a new feel to it, hence the hiring of a new generation of Olympic sailors like Pete and Blair and also Andy Maloney and Josh Junior.

Much of what we saw in 95, 2000 and 2017 was down to the skipper making decisions and backing himself in his calls. 

Barker never took on that decision making. If he did, either he made the wrong decisions, in 3 campaigns and rightly so, was relieved of those duties, or no one listened to him, or

he left those decisions up to someone else because he wasn't comfortable making those decisions.

Either way, the skipper has a responsibility, and expectation. If you fail to live up to those things, you also need to be held accountable.

Taine Randell is a good example of an All Black captain who is probably seen as one of the biggest failures of the Black jersey in generations. He has faded into obscurity.

As the Mandalorian so famously put it... "This is the way"

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42 minutes ago, Piet56 said:

So what can you ask for as a Kiwi? To win... He's not the only Kiwi held in a bad light from sporting failures

NZers either want them to win, or sacrifice themsleves for the Team.

DB was asked to do the latter after 2013 and refused.

Ray Davies was also asked the same and obliged, he is no longer on the boat, but is instrumental in the teams success, and shares in the spoils.

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

Utter tripe your comments may have held some weight many moons ago but look at the recent Rugby World Cup loss life went on we are more pragmatic than your narrow perspective paints.

Don't change Priscilla..... don't ever change

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

The guy was skipper. As skipper he calls the shots. He makes the decisions not only on the boat, but also every decision that leads up to designing and building that boat. As the guy who makes the decisions, you should be held accountable for those decisions. 

In the video "Black Magic - The Team NZ story" Blakey summed it up. "The skipper had to be involved in all the key decisions to do with the boat, and the trial program, and the sail program everything else, he had to know all about it, it had to be his".

The 95 program no doubt had Russell Coutts fingerprints all over it - and he got the results.

Glenn Ashby did the same in Bermuda. As stated in the "The birth of foiling" video, clearly Ashby wanted the team to go in a certain direction, he wanted the team to implement the bike system, but also needed his team to keep it under wraps and he also wanted the team to have a new look and a new feel to it, hence the hiring of a new generation of Olympic sailors like Pete and Blair and also Andy Maloney and Josh Junior.

Much of what we saw in 95, 2000 and 2017 was down to the skipper making decisions and backing himself in his calls. 

Barker never took on that decision making. If he did, either he made the wrong decisions, in 3 campaigns and rightly so, was relieved of those duties, or no one listened to him, or

he left those decisions up to someone else because he wasn't comfortable making those decisions.

Either way, the skipper has a responsibility, and expectation. If you fail to live up to those things, you also need to be held accountable.

Taine Randell is a good example of an All Black captain who is probably seen as one of the biggest failures of the Black jersey in generations. He has faded into obscurity.

As the Mandalorian so famously put it... "This is the way"

After San Francisco, there was a big internal review of ETNZ. Nothing escaped scrutiny. Glenn's leadership was one of the few positives that came from that review and it became pretty essential that everybody going forward needed to be multi-dimensional. You couldn't just be a sailor. You had to have something else to contribute. Whilst that review was being finalised there were questions being raised about how much new blood/talent should come into the team. Burling & Tuke as 2012 Silver medallists were an obvious set of candidates, but the question was whether they gamble with youth over experience. 

Enter the 2015 Moth Worlds in Melbourne. The only world class foiling event outside the America's Cup at the time besides the C Class catamaran. Outteridge, Jensen, Bruni, Chris Draper and a few potential AC candidates like Tom Slingsby joined Burling, Tuke, Davies, Ashby & Barker to see who could get bragging rights going into the next AC cycle. The rest is history. Burling smashed everybody. Outteridge was second, but everybody else in the AC world beat Barker. Even Ray Davies and Glenn Ashby who had been sailing Moths for less than 6 weeks. From the end of that regatta, he knew he was cooked at ETNZ.

Two months later he was crying to the country on national radio claiming he'd been sacked.

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16 minutes ago, NZL3481 said:

After San Francisco, there was a big internal review of ETNZ. Nothing escaped scrutiny. Glenn's leadership was one of the few positives that came from that review and it became pretty essential that everybody going forward needed to be multi-dimensional. You couldn't just be a sailor. You had to have something else to contribute. Whilst that review was being finalised there were questions being raised about how much new blood/talent should come into the team. Burling & Tuke as 2012 Silver medallists were an obvious set of candidates, but the question was whether they gamble with youth over experience. 

Enter the 2015 Moth Worlds in Melbourne. The only world class foiling event outside the America's Cup. Outteridge, Jensen, Bruni, Chris Draper and a few potential AC candidates like Tom Slingsby joined Burling, Tuke, Davies, Ashby & Barker to see who could get bragging rights going into the next AC cycle. The rest is history. Burling smashed everybody. Outteridge was second, but everybody else in the AC world beat Barker. Even Ray Davies and Glenn Ashby who had been sailing Moths for less than 6 weeks. From the end of that regatta, he knew he was cooked.

Two months later he was crying to the country on national radio claiming he'd been sacked.

One thing about the whole capsize that stood out for Me was, during the recovery, when there was chaos, when we saw guys like Goodison, guys from the shore crew, guys from ETNZ, pumping water, hauling sails around, where was Barker during the whole thing?

This photo sums it up for me:

dean-barker-looks-on-as-the-new-zealand-

patriot-sinking-nzherald.jpg?width=635&h

gettyimages-1296793563.jpg?itok=wq3JXJbc

LJTESHGEAFGCXDCIP4Q4PG36B4.jpg

The Kiwi's are in there boots n all, getting their hands dirty. While Dean looks stunned wondering what he should be doing.

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As Four has said in the past Deano appears to be sailing like he attempting to shed his past demons that awkward stance white knuckles gripping the shaking wheel of his last opportunity for AC success and redemption.

The more I looked at the wipeout the telling turn back to face Goody was proof enough that doubt at 40 knots just hastened the rather quick journey to chaos.

The irony of facing light conditions for the semis won’t be lost on the Amway crew.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

One thing about the whole capsize that stood out for Me was, during the recovery, when there was chaos, when we saw guys like Goodison, guys from the shore crew, guys from ETNZ, pumping water, hauling sails around, where was Barker during the whole thing?

This photo sums it up for me:

dean-barker-looks-on-as-the-new-zealand-

patriot-sinking-nzherald.jpg?width=635&h

gettyimages-1296793563.jpg?itok=wq3JXJbc

LJTESHGEAFGCXDCIP4Q4PG36B4.jpg

The Kiwi's are in there boots n all, getting their hands dirty. While Dean looks stunned wondering what he should be doing.

When the question was asked of what else he could do other than drive at ETNZ during the review, I don't think they could find any more meaningful contributions...

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42 minutes ago, NZL3481 said:

After San Francisco, there was a big internal review of ETNZ. Nothing escaped scrutiny. Glenn's leadership was one of the few positives that came from that review and it became pretty essential that everybody going forward needed to be multi-dimensional. You couldn't just be a sailor. You had to have something else to contribute. Whilst that review was being finalised there were questions being raised about how much new blood/talent should come into the team. Burling & Tuke as 2012 Silver medallists were an obvious set of candidates, but the question was whether they gamble with youth over experience. 

Enter the 2015 Moth Worlds in Melbourne. The only world class foiling event outside the America's Cup at the time besides the C Class catamaran. Outteridge, Jensen, Bruni, Chris Draper and a few potential AC candidates like Tom Slingsby joined Burling, Tuke, Davies, Ashby & Barker to see who could get bragging rights going into the next AC cycle. The rest is history. Burling smashed everybody. Outteridge was second, but everybody else in the AC world beat Barker. Even Ray Davies and Glenn Ashby who had been sailing Moths for less than 6 weeks. From the end of that regatta, he knew he was cooked at ETNZ.

Two months later he was crying to the country on national radio claiming he'd been sacked.

thought I'd fact check this.

https://www.foilingweek.com/2015/01/16/mcdougallmcconaghy-2015-moth-worlds-final-results/

 

DB finished 31st, between tom slingsby and goodie. 

Quite impressive to see blair tuke in 6th.

 

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46 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

One thing about the whole capsize that stood out for Me was, during the recovery, when there was chaos, when we saw guys like Goodison, guys from the shore crew, guys from ETNZ, pumping water, hauling sails around, where was Barker during the whole thing?

This photo sums it up for me:

dean-barker-looks-on-as-the-new-zealand-

patriot-sinking-nzherald.jpg?width=635&h

gettyimages-1296793563.jpg?itok=wq3JXJbc

LJTESHGEAFGCXDCIP4Q4PG36B4.jpg

The Kiwi's are in there boots n all, getting their hands dirty. While Dean looks stunned wondering what he should be doing.

Or quick boys get their secrets before the bloody thing sinks

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22 minutes ago, shebeen said:

thought I'd fact check this.

https://www.foilingweek.com/2015/01/16/mcdougallmcconaghy-2015-moth-worlds-final-results/

 

DB finished 31st, between tom slingsby and goodie. 

Quite impressive to see blair tuke in 6th.

 

Tom rocked up with a borrowed boat and no support like db, and weighs a ton. Good result...too bad we don't see him on an AC ride

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44 minutes ago, shebeen said:

thought I'd fact check this.

https://www.foilingweek.com/2015/01/16/mcdougallmcconaghy-2015-moth-worlds-final-results/

 

DB finished 31st, between tom slingsby and goodie. 

Quite impressive to see blair tuke in 6th.

 

you are of course correct... but slingsby was on for a top 5 without gear breakage. Goody was on for a top 15 without gear breakage. Both posted a number of top ten results.

And, both were suitably dismayed by these results, despite having kit failure to blame, that they went away and came back and won future moth worlds... 
 

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Can anyone share a light why at this happy moment for the AM team some of you guys are blaring about Dean? In this thread? I honestly think that it speaks for a sailor and his qualities, when he reaches a final in the Americas Cup. I am not sure if you can make the skipper responsible for a breaking boom end, a breaking mast and a boat drowning itself by taking on water. At least the skipper had the guts to tell the guys to bring a blue bucket for the race. 

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29 minutes ago, Manfred said:

Can anyone share a light why at this happy moment for the AM team some of you guys are blaring about Dean? In this thread? I honestly think that it speaks for a sailor and his qualities, when he reaches a final in the Americas Cup. I am not sure if you can make the skipper responsible for a breaking boom end, a breaking mast and a boat drowning itself by taking on water. At least the skipper had the guts to tell the guys to bring a blue bucket for the race. 

He could be a Jonah???

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8 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

thanks, it is a nice looking boat.  

I was not wishing you harm, just pointed out that if you take greater risks than you need to be responsible for the outcome and not expect those that follow the rules to be responsible for your actions.  He in the US we still have people thinking Covid is fake while they are in the hospital taking their dying breath.

You collate me disagreeing with the lockdown and thinking covid is fake. I know covid is real and I am following the rules. We are now killing people with the lockdown. If you look at all my posts I never threaten or wish people harm. I just disagree and having a different view to others is now akin to McCarthyism. It is a shame that we have lost the ability to debate without being nasty.

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22 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

AM certainly look like they have some issues with flight control?

 

They had a few flutters with flight but I would say very good other than that given they have implemented some new mods to the boat as well.

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1 hour ago, Mozzy Sails said:

you are of course correct... but slingsby was on for a top 5 without gear breakage. Goody was on for a top 15 without gear breakage. Both posted a number of top ten results.

And, both were suitably dismayed by these results, despite having kit failure to blame, that they went away and came back and won future moth worlds... 
 

Totally fine with there being more context to the results from this regatta. Despite being an olympian Dean barker doesn't have the dinghy palmares of many of the other figures in this game.

At the end of the day, ETNZ decision to go for youth over experience with PB over DB has paid back in spades - i don't think anyone is doubting that.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

They had a few flutters with flight but I would say very good other than that given they have implemented some new mods to the boat as well.

Well, I hope they deal with the gremlins if that's all it is.  What are the new mods, apart from the bandaids?

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Seems like a major focus of today was on mainsail control. They have a guy sitting at the back of the boat in most videos looking up at the sail and you can see the variety of section shapes they are achieving from top to bottom in this picture. I'm not sure this is a leap ahead of other teams but surely a big step in catching up. 

Picture1 (2).png

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10 hours ago, 33jesus said:

Damn where is this broadcasted? 

Sail Newport podcast last night. Not sure which one of them made the statement but it was a statement not a probability as I remember.

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2 hours ago, Mozzy Sails said:

you are of course correct... but slingsby was on for a top 5 without gear breakage. Goody was on for a top 15 without gear breakage. Both posted a number of top ten results.

And, both were suitably dismayed by these results, despite having kit failure to blame, that they went away and came back and won future moth worlds... 
 

My understanding was that the 2015 worlds was very early in a lot of those guys moth sailing, or even the first moth sailing some of them had done. I think the last time all of this lot raced together seriously was the Garda worlds in 2018ish, won by Goodison from Burling. Iain Jensen was conspicuous with his 3rd place at that. It could be said that Burling's Mach 2 / Ka setup in Garda would not be the first choice of many. Last moth worlds in Perth was dominated by Slingsby, but the power sailing will have suited him well.

There are obvious variables like training time leading up to regatta, total time in the boat etc, kit used etc etc but it would be very interesting to see a moth worlds with these guys today.

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1 hour ago, terrafirma said:

They had a few flutters with flight but I would say very good other than that given they have implemented some new mods to the boat as well.

They have a problem with their control system.  At 3:33, you can see the exact same motion from the boat on a similar turn, and this time in extremely light air.  If they'd had more wind, that would have been a repeat performance.  Both the ride height at the rudder and the front foil oscillate upwards significantly, and the boat develops the same heal to leeward.  Hope they get it sorted.  

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1 hour ago, Aqua Firma 01 said:

Seems like a major focus of today was on mainsail control. They have a guy sitting at the back of the boat in most videos looking up at the sail and you can see the variety of section shapes they are achieving from top to bottom in this picture. I'm not sure this is a leap ahead of other teams but surely a big step in catching up. 

Picture1 (2).png

Just control the mid leech with the lee runner? (Sorry)

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14 hours ago, Monkey said:

He’s just a little cranky because the U.S., Australia, New Zealand, and the Swiss aren’t nice enough to share the Cup with his silly little island. 

It is actually a silly medium sized Island that I love living on.

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7 hours ago, Forourselves said:

One thing about the whole capsize that stood out for Me was, during the recovery, when there was chaos, when we saw guys like Goodison, guys from the shore crew, guys from ETNZ, pumping water, hauling sails around, where was Barker during the whole thing?

This photo sums it up for me:

The Kiwi's are in there boots n all, getting their hands dirty. While Dean looks stunned wondering what he should be doing.

You have got to find some other constructive way to deal with your hatred of the AM and Dean, maybe some therapy.

The top pictures are later on in the process when they were connecting the pumps.  Who would you rather have doing that?  The crew that knows how they work or the helmsman that would just get in your way?  The later pictures of the NZ crew handling the sail was after it was taken down and then passed over to the NZ tender.  Was Dean supposed to climb over there too?

You are taking a few pictures and adding a false narrative to them.  Go back and watch the video to get the real details.  Also remember that the most of the crew on the port side of the boat just survived being submerged under water and the mainsail.  The video clearly show them popping their heads out of the water as they came out from under the sail.  Note that TH was stuck under water by the retaining strap and had to be cut free by another crew member or he may have died.

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On 1/21/2021 at 5:15 PM, Pertsa said:

Missed opportunity if they dont paint "ouch" or something similar to place of repair. Overused joke, but it is still fun every time.

Well, I was not disappointed.

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27 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

You have got to find some other constructive way to deal with your hatred of the AM and Dean, maybe some therapy.

The top pictures are later on in the process when they were connecting the pumps.  Who would you rather have doing that?  The crew that knows how they work or the helmsman that would just get in your way?  The later pictures of the NZ crew handling the sail was after it was taken down and then passed over to the NZ tender.  Was Dean supposed to climb over there too?

You are taking a few pictures and adding a false narrative to them.  Go back and watch the video to get the real details.  Also remember that the most of the crew on the port side of the boat just survived being submerged under water and the mainsail.  The video clearly show them popping their heads out of the water as they came out from under the sail.  Note that TH was stuck under water by the retaining strap and had to be cut free by another crew member or he may have died.

You must forgive Minion 1, he is just doing his job. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

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6 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

Very impressive for a rebuilt boat, but they have a lot of work to do to get it under control.

for 99% of a ~5min video, their control seemed fine. In marginal foiling conditions, they had one problem maneuver - that doesn't seem so bad.

Is there more video that shows bigger, or more consistent, trouble?

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You can image that they had the feel for the old control setup, the balance.  As you change the whole setup, there has to be minor tweaks to get it all set back up to the same balance. It will be a shame if they do not get enough time on the water to get back the feel and end up losing the races because of that or no wind.   You want to see all of the boats give it their all and have the best team win.

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If they didn't have a few moments after such a big re-build 9and possibly a few upgrades) it would be remarkable, They have done a fantastic job to be foiling again so quickly. Hats off to the AM team whatever the outcome from here

I also think that the sticking plasters look even better sailing than they did on shore

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3 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

If they didn't have a few moments after such a big re-build 9and possibly a few upgrades) it would be remarkable, They have done a fantastic job to be foiling again so quickly. Hats off to the AM team whatever the outcome from here

I also think that the sticking plasters look even better sailing than they did on shore

Yes, compared to just a few days ago when the hull was under water, this is phenomenal.

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3 hours ago, Grrr... said:

They have a problem with their control system.  At 3:33, you can see the exact same motion from the boat on a similar turn, and this time in extremely light air.  If they'd had more wind, that would have been a repeat performance.  Both the ride height at the rudder and the front foil oscillate upwards significantly, and the boat develops the same heal to leeward.  Hope they get it sorted.  

+1. Yes, I think you are spot on. And the ones who have never sailed a Moth, Phantom or even a foiling Nacra 17 are not able to even think about the time it takes to get exactly those things right. I took me ages on the Moth, of course I am not of the calibre of the sailors in the AC but even with my best technical understanding it cost me a few races before it had been sorted. It is not a boat with a keel and a rudder underwater. Even the IMOCA sailors needed a lot of time which they did not have before the Vendee, to find out, that in their best foiling mode it did not help the speed to have the keel fully canted to windward. Instead less sail area, more RM and let the foil do the speed job.

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27 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

You can image that they had the feel for the old control setup, the balance.  As you change the whole setup, there has to be minor tweaks to get it all set back up to the same balance. It will be a shame if they do not get enough time on the water to get back the feel and end up losing the races because of that or no wind.   You want to see all of the boats give it their all and have the best team win.

I thought there may have been an issue with flight control a few seconds before they lost the boat and capsized. Just my observations of course.

With these videos showing two somewhat similar instances of control loss, it makes me wonder...

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2 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

I thought there may have been an issue with flight control a few seconds before they lost the boat and capsized. Just my observations of course.

With these videos showing two somewhat similar instances of control loss, it makes me wonder...

I think you need to consider the wind speeds- it looks like pretty marginal foiling conditions...

my foiling is limited to windsurfing - so no controls - but in marginal conditions, i get forced into techniques that are somewhat unstable and difficult to sustain, as i try to eek out the last bit of lift from the foil

so i can imagine that they have similar issues, and that with more wind the problem might disappear - or maybe not...

those looked like the kind of conditions that led to crappy racing

 

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13 minutes ago, sledracr said:

I thought the same thing.  He wasn't "leading", he wasn't even "pitching in".  He just lsort of faded into the crowd.

Sometimes the sign of a good leader is to get the fuck out of the way.  Especially when other members of the crew know exactly what needs to happen.  I don't think indicting the guy for standing back in this case is even marginally correct.  Someone just has a hard on to badmouth him.  You really think he's sat on the couch for the last 2 weeks while everyone else worked?

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9 hours ago, Forourselves said:

One thing about the whole capsize that stood out for Me was, during the recovery, when there was chaos, when we saw guys like Goodison, guys from the shore crew, guys from ETNZ, pumping water, hauling sails around, where was Barker during the whole thing?

This photo sums it up for me:

The Kiwi's are in there boots n all, getting their hands dirty. While Dean looks stunned wondering what he should be doing.

Your post sums up your brilliance and your class.

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15 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

Sometimes the sign of a good leader is to get the fuck out of the way.  

Sometimes true.  Especially in emergencies. Although (in my limited experience) in emergency situations there's often no sideline, there's only "do what you can, where you can, when you can".

Admittedly I'm bringing my own biases into play, and basing what I think on a very limited view, but... look at all the videos that have been released.  It's TH giving inspiring comfort to the team when the boat first made it back into the shed.  It's TH - alone - in front of the press conferences.  It's Goodie talking about what went wrong, and what they could have done different.  I looked really closely at the various videos, the only shot I ever saw of DB was him sitting back from the meeting table with a stoic look on his face.  My inference was that he was "watching the conversation happen".

leaders lead.  Doesn't mean they need to "do" everything, but they have to act in a way that lets people know they're there, they're engaged, and they know what they're trying to do.  People "look to their leader", perhaps for direction, perhaps for inspiration, perhaps for something else.  If that leader fades into the background, it's hard to follow him.

In DB.  I see a strong driver, but I don't see a strong decision-maker.  Let alone a strong "leader of men"

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Good to see them back in the water. Hard to tell if the boat has changed a lot but the problem with the capsize was really a combination of a freak gust and boat handling issues. That is what needs to be cleaned up. 

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26 minutes ago, sledracr said:

I thought the same thing.  He wasn't "leading", he wasn't even "pitching in".  He just lsort of faded into the crowd.

I have no like/dislike of Mr. Barker, but this was interesting to me as well. If he was in the leadership of my company I would wonder at the significance of this and what it was illuminating. I do know that the roles are certainly different but Peter Burling's actions in the same moments would lead to consideration of a raise and more responsibility. 

To be fair, I wasn't there throughout (or at all) and am reacting to some still photos. 

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19 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

Sometimes the sign of a good leader is to get the fuck out of the way.  Especially when other members of the crew know exactly what needs to happen.  I don't think indicting the guy for standing back in this case is even marginally correct.  Someone just has a hard on to badmouth him.  You really think he's sat on the couch for the last 2 weeks while everyone else worked?

Getting out of the way is never a good sign of leadership. Its the sign of a CEO or executive position person who isn't paid to get their hands dirty.

They were in an emergency situation. The boat was literally sinking. I get that they have shore crew guys who know their jobs etc, but if you just crashed the boat, you do what you can to help the guys save it. You lead from the front. You do what you can to inspire your guys to do the same. If that means hauling or holding pumps, hauling sails around, what ever. You do it. 

I don't know what hes been doing for the last two weeks. Simulation work?

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35 minutes ago, danstanford said:

 

To be fair, I wasn't there throughout (or at all) and am reacting to some still photos. 

Yeah, and this guy below isn't a leader. the black people of SA are oppressed and discriminated against, and he is just leaning back against the wall, with his arms crossed which is clear indication that he doesn't think it is his problem to do anything about.

170px-Young_Mandela.jpg

And yet Nelson Mandela comes up hen I google best leaders of all time.

Kind of hard to judge a leader from a photo or two. 

Remember also that Deano isn't in charge, TH is. So when he was sat back at the conversation, that is what he should have been doing. Letting TH take the lead rather than try and grab control. And listen. A good thing for a leader to do at times, especially when he might have screwed up.

I'm going out on a limb to say there are reasons he is there and we aren't. 

I've been in the position of having ignorant fan-boys on a forum criticise my every decision. I knew they were talking bollocks but couldn't answer back. So on his behalf, may I suggest the critics on here give the guy a break and don't make up shit from still photos when you haven't got a scooby what was going on, have never been in that situation and will never be trusted to.

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The amount of blood sweat and tears that goes into one of these campaigns must be just immeasurable. Its amazing to read people on hear judging and harping, as if Dean has personally driven over their lawn and killed their mother in law. Do they really think that Dean, Grant, Russell, Ben, etc, etc, etc, are unable to sit and have a beer? its a game people. 

Re Barkers sailing, i think he did amazingly well to finish between Goodison and Slingsby in any class under any circumstances. All of these guys have had moments of great success and moments when I'm sure they just wanted the ground to open up and swallow them.....that's elite competition. I'd be happy to buy any of them a beer.  

They only lost in SF by the smallest of margins and by my estimation he did his bit. Even having the nerve to take the helm with the amount of pressure he/they were under (for any of the starts) is bloody impressive. Obviously some people on this forum have bigger balls; congratulations!

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5 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

What are you all on about, leader etc.?
Dean is not the skipper nor CEO of AM. He's the helmsman. No need to ask leadership of him this time.

Correct, Dean doesn't have to show leadership during the rescue and a photo can't tell whether he had leadership or not. We don't know either if he was injured or shocked during the crash.

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39 minutes ago, sledracr said:

Sometimes true.  Especially in emergencies. Although (in my limited experience) in emergency situations there's often no sideline, there's only "do what you can, where you can, when you can".

Admittedly I'm bringing my own biases into play, and basing what I think on a very limited view, but... look at all the videos that have been released.  It's TH giving inspiring comfort to the team when the boat first made it back into the shed.  It's TH - alone - in front of the press conferences.  It's Goodie talking about what went wrong, and what they could have done different.  I looked really closely at the various videos, the only shot I ever saw of DB was him sitting back from the meeting table with a stoic look on his face.  My inference was that he was "watching the conversation happen".

leaders lead.  Doesn't mean they need to "do" everything, but they have to act in a way that lets people know they're there, they're engaged, and they know what they're trying to do.  People "look to their leader", perhaps for direction, perhaps for inspiration, perhaps for something else.  If that leader fades into the background, it's hard to follow him.

In DB.  I see a strong driver, but I don't see a strong decision-maker.  Let alone a strong "leader of men"

But TH is the leader of the program, the cheat  cheer (fckg spell checker)leader and the PR connection.  I think you may be reading too much into the situation.

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23 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Work in progress I guess.

Capture.PNG

Not sure where the problem here is - they've got a ton of depth in bottom of the mainsail.  Probably powering up in the light breeze to initiate foiling.

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3 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

Not sure where the problem here is - they've got a ton of depth in bottom of the mainsail.  Probably powering up in the light breeze to initiate foiling.

I think he is alluding to the main being tucked up on top of the boom rather than properly end plating. In the video you can see someone pulling it down.

I'd imagine it is just representative of a rush to get going and will easily be fixed in the tidy ups over the coming days

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16 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

They got better....   later in the day on course C

 

Same damn thing.  Take a loot at 3:20.  As they are part of the way through the turn, the boat lifts up.  They still don't have the problem that caused the crash licked.  Their bear-away at 3:40 shows the same heel-then-lift problem.  19:29 shows another splash. As they turn, the increase in heel puts the foils in a more upright position and they add additional lift.  I'm sure they've got something in their control scheme to counteract it - but it still scares me each time they bear away.

That said, I wonder if this incident has driven some of their design decisions to be more conservative.  They can't afford to lose races if the air is light - they have no cushion.  So I wonder if they are going to optimize away some of their top end speed for more low end lift improve light air lift offs.

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