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1 minute ago, Stingray~ said:

Oh c’mon.. There’s a reasonable chance that the invoice charged to AM helped GD to keep his own boatbuilders paid. And that’s fine. 

As to ‘future proceedings’ well yes, if Terry had choices then going with the ETNZ boatbuilders (if he even needed them :) ) for a panel made off a mold AM already had, may well have been to ‘smooth’ things with the Defender. The brilliant PR move with those bandaids too! All good. 
 

GD as CEO of ACE, still despite all the pointed questioning about if he was siphoning ACE money off into ETNZ, most certainly wants AM to make it to the Semi’s for reasons even above and beyond his Sportsmanlike Heroics.  

Oh FFS Stinger.

Of course it helped pay the boat builders, they needed to be paid.
But you phrased it as if they were making some big arse profit on it.

And for all we know they might have, but I doubt it and there is certainly no evidence of it.

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And we have liftoff!!

I for one was happy to finally see an American team that didn’t just reek of assholes. Terry was a great bloke to have in front of the cameras and the intimate videos behind the scenes I found quite f

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17 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Show some gratitude Alky without the TNZ assistance Amway would still be in the shed.

Lord Dalton to TH " whatever you need we have it for you.”

And boy they did.

 

To be fair, there’s a good chance they could’ve done the repair on their own. Now whether or not Patriot would currently be an artificial reef without all the other teams helping out is a whole different discussion!  I for one am thankful to all three teams!  

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7 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Oh c’mon.. There’s a reasonable chance that the invoice charged to AM helped GD to keep his own boatbuilders paid. And that’s fine. 

As to ‘future proceedings’ well yes, if Terry had choices then going with the ETNZ boatbuilders (if he even needed them :) ) for a panel made off a mold AM already had, may well have been to ‘smooth’ things with the Defender. The brilliant PR move with those bandaids too! All good. 
 

GD as CEO of ACE, still despite all the pointed questioning about if he was siphoning ACE money off into ETNZ, most certainly wants AM to make it to the Semi’s for reasons even above and beyond his Sportsmanlike Heroics.  

Fuck you post way more crap than I do!  Do you spend all day looking for conspiracies?

Suggest you read up on Occam's Razor.

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Just now, jaysper said:

Oh FFS Stinger.

Of course it helped pay the boat builders, they needed to be paid.
But you phrased it as if they were making some big arse profit on it.

And for all we know they might have, but I doubt it and there is certainly no evidence of it.

Okay, cool! 
 

I don’t care how much the money may have played into the repair help and motivation, it’s just a curiousity. If the money was big, it could even have helped ETNZ. 
 

By far the biggest lasting impression will obviously be the support AM received, and that Terry got emotionally choking on in the aftermath. That was free and beautiful. 

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5 minutes ago, Monkey said:

To be fair, there’s a good chance they could’ve done the repair on their own. Now whether or not Patriot would currently be an artificial reef without all the other teams helping out is a whole different discussion!  I for one am thankful to all three teams!  

Bloody fantastic to see Amway rocking up for the semis as it was going to be a long three weeks around here and on the sparkling Waitemata home of the Cup without them.

One more sleep and then business time yippee.

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4 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Bloody fantastic to see Amway rocking up for the semis as it was going to be a long three weeks around here and on the sparkling Waitemata home of the Cup without them.

One more sleep and then business time yippee.

If by some miracle they win the silly thing, it’ll go down in Cup history as the ultimate display of international sportsmanship. 

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7 minutes ago, Monkey said:

If by some miracle they win the silly thing, it’ll go down in Cup history as the ultimate display of international sportsmanship. 

Because no other international sports person or team has ever helped a competitor during an event… there are plenty of examples if you care to look, even some involving NZ athletes.

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I really don’t know what the hell we arguing about. AM was happy about the help it got and ETNZ were happy to help. Seems like good sportsmanship on both sides. AM gesture with the sticky plaster motif was classy as well. Every one looks good and the winner was sport. 
 

Also if the roles were reversed and T.H called the shots AM would of helped ETNZ 

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53 minutes ago, Monkey said:

If by some miracle they win the silly thing, it’ll go down in Cup history as the ultimate display of international sportsmanship. 

What about Geronimo giving their spare mast to Platypus before the last race?

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46 minutes ago, RobG said:

Because no other international sports person or team has ever helped a competitor during an event… there are plenty of examples if you care to look, even some involving NZ athletes.

I said Cup history, as in America’s Cup, you muppet. 

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Just now, onepointfivethumbs said:

What about Geronimo giving their spare mast to Platypus before the last race?

Well, that will always be the winner. Plus, they agreed to waive the rules the next day. That’s just classy. 

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Just now, Monkey said:

Well, that will always be the winner. Plus, they agreed to waive the rules the next day. That’s just classy. 

That Will Parker, what a class act. And his girlfriend, the first female navigator to win the AC!

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17 minutes ago, mako23 said:

Also if the roles were reversed and T.H called the shots AM would of helped ETNZ 

He absolutely would have. He has always conducted himself such.

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1 hour ago, Kiwing said:

They could have done it themselves but not in the short time needed !

So time is what TNZ gave them, with out a bill for it!

No argument here. They probably could have patched it in time, but it wouldn’t have been the near perfect repair that it is. The Kiwis gave us hope of at least having a chance. 

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15 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

For sure a good gesture, also allowing them to fullfill their requirement for a minimum number of teams for the show, the sponsors, the  city, the gvt, and to give work and revenues to local companies.

 

Yes having enough teams for the Prada semi’s had to be a factor in ENTZs help making the patch.  It was bad enough for the TV and sponsorship folk to lose RR races.  Losing the semis would have been a disaster. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

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31 minutes ago, WetHog said:

Yes having enough teams for the Prada semi’s had to be a factor in ENTZs help making the patch.  It was bad enough for the TV and sponsorship folk to lose RR races.  Losing the semis would have been a disaster. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

FFS can’t we leave it as good sportsmanship on both sides. I know some Americans view GD as the antichrist but he does has morals and a sense of doing right. 

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5 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

By RG

American Magic's AC75 Patriot had a close call on the Waitemata Harbour, on Wednesday evening after she appeared to hit a boat wake, and her rudder briefly ventilated.

https://www.sail-world.com/news/234799/Americas-Cup-Patriot-has-a-close-call

She's like an unbroken mare. Wild and skittish as fuck.

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1 hour ago, Monkey said:

Plus, they agreed to waive the rules the next day. That’s just classy. 

Nothing classy about that.  Without waving the rules they never could have hoisted the whomper.  It clearly didn't measure.

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3 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

The choice to take GD up on his offer despite the likely HUGE invoice bill (GD’s role is primarily as a money opportunist)...

Errrr... wow... Your entry into r/iamatotalpieceofshit on reddit has been approved.

If you ever had the balls to suggest such a thing to AM/Terry they'd likely just shake their head in deep, sad, disappointment and call security.

Your constant campaign of sowing negative innuendo and conspiracies about individuals, and your continued fawning over the perennial losers and villians of the AC just makes the whole lot of you even more unsavoury and unwelcome.

I can't think of anyone more persistently toxic on these forums... take a good hard look at yourself... seriously...

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1 hour ago, Monkey said:

I said Cup history, as in America’s Cup, you muppet. 

If the defender helping a possible future challenger to fix its boat (albeit one running last in the CSS) really is "the ultimate display of [America's Cup] international sportsmanship" then that likely says more about the AC than anything else. Is there really no other display of AC sportsmanship that has or will in future surpass it?

I'm not taking anything away from ENTZ for helping out, but some of the gushing praise for ETNZ really is over the top.

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3 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

True, he needs the fastest boat like Burling did

For all we know he had (has?) the fastest boat.. They were very competitive and had boat speed on LRPP in the capsize race (in those wind conditions), whereas Ineos & LRPP were pretty equivalent if you removed Ben and great comm's on Ineos.

Hopefully the capsize hasn't made the setback too great and we get to see AM utilize it's potential to have a great Prada Cup. I love the hull shape and sleek aero. it reminds me of USA 17 vs Aotearoa in SF. USA was the better boat and had far less aero drag and more speed potential, but the NZ boat was more optimized. Oracle just learned how to sail it in time (and added Ben) and the rest is history.

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6 minutes ago, waterboy42 said:

it reminds me of USA 17 vs Aotearoa in SF. USA was the better boat and had far less aero drag and more speed potential, but the NZ boat was more optimized. Oracle just learned how to sail it in time (and added Ben) and the rest is history.

Classic case of convenient memory syndrome with no mention of Herbie:P

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11 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Classic case of convenient memory syndrome with no mention of Herbie:P

Ah.... The mythical Herbie.. :lol:

2nd only in NZ sporting folklore to the mythical "Suzie"..
It was a great story at the time, and I was in SF to watch the Cup, it is still perplexing how the US boat went from unstable rocking horse to dead flat trim almost overnight...

I can only assume the lead in the King Post helped...

 

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3 hours ago, Kiwing said:

They could have done it themselves but not in the short time needed !

So time is what TNZ gave them, with out a bill for it!

It only took NZ about a day to laminate the shell on AM’s mold.  AM could have done it in the corner of their own shed.  Of course it would have take time away from other other tasks, but they would have got it done.  I have said that everyone in the AM corner greatly appreciates the help.  I was just pointing out to not exaggerate how much NZ opened up their arms.

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20 hours ago, barfy said:

Tom rocked up with a borrowed boat and no support like db, and weighs a ton. Good result...too bad we don't see him on an AC ride

DB had plenty of support - the same as his team mates. 6 weeks of training prior in NZ. They even flew AMac over for a week or two of intensive coaching.

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8 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

So Grant told us they could not chose a cat because their local sea conditions made it too dangerous but that an AC75 can capsize on a boat wake. That is hillarious. :D

Spoke like someone who has never sailed on Course A, B or C in 20 knots with wind against current...

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6 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Agree that it’s great ETNZ offered their builders and facilities. They could easily have declined, using pretty much any excuse. 
 

But I do suspect that in the wider Auckland area, maybe even Core Builders up in Warkworth (who have a proven ability to knock huge projects out, fast) might have been alternatives.
 

The choice to take GD up on his offer despite the likely HUGE invoice bill (GD’s role is primarily as a money opportunist) may have made sense on several levels. For one, the apparent goodwill could smooth otherwise-aggressive legal tactics, given the good-news vibes. 

The price may not be monetary, but there will be a price...

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Not wanting to mis-represent Patriot's performance this afternoon, she generally looked great, but yes there was the odd sign that they still have a few control issues.

DSC_5499.JPG

DSC_5500.JPG

DSC_5501.JPG

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7 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

So, are you saying the NZ sailing fans have matured?  It is hard to tell by some of the posters here on SAAC.

Define "matured"...

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3 hours ago, waterboy42 said:

For all we know he had (has?) the fastest boat.. They were very competitive and had boat speed on LRPP in the capsize race (in those wind conditions), whereas Ineos & LRPP were pretty equivalent if you removed Ben and great comm's on Ineos.

Hopefully the capsize hasn't made the setback too great and we get to see AM utilize it's potential to have a great Prada Cup. I love the hull shape and sleek aero. it reminds me of USA 17 vs Aotearoa in SF. USA was the better boat and had far less aero drag and more speed potential, but the NZ boat was more optimized. Oracle just learned how to sail it in time (and added Ben) and the rest is history.

In the capsize race LR had issues with their race computer and they were sailing almost blind. There were also other issues in  the control systems, for instance the main trimmer could never switch side.That said, AM were fast.

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1 minute ago, strider470 said:

In the capsize race LR had issues with their race computer and they were sailing almost blind. That said, AM were fast.

Good point.. I think this would have been the big issue of the day if it wasn't overshadowed by AM's catastrophe...

I haven't seen what was the cause of the positioning issue, or if it was with LRPP's equipment, or the Race Management's equipment  / data transmission (as it has been previously)

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14 minutes ago, waterboy42 said:

Good point.. I think this would have been the big issue of the day if it wasn't overshadowed by AM's catastrophe...

I haven't seen what was the cause of the positioning issue, or if it was with LRPP's equipment, or the Race Management's equipment  / data transmission (as it has been previously)

I heard the only thing was properly functioning was a 50$ watch

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1 hour ago, mako23 said:

Gee you yanks are a bunch of grumpy bastards today. What’s are up with you lot. Is the weather getting you lot down. 

Maybe a severe case of PTSD.

Post Trump stress disorder.

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10 hours ago, jaysper said:

I never had any doubt they would be back.

And now I hope they lose the rest of their races :)

They are my least liked team but its better they go out fighting & losing than through gear breakage.

 

I see no problem with a few woopsies, as various others already said there is bound to be some teething issues with a full rushed rebuild of their systems.

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9 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Bloody fantastic to see Amway rocking up for the semis as it was going to be a long three weeks around here and on the sparkling Waitemata home of the Cup without them.

One more sleep and then business time yippee.

Really impressive we have a race this weekend. It is not unthinkable that they beat Prada in the semis. It would probably require that the roles between TH, PG and DB are a bit more solidified, but they have had 10 days off water to dial that in theory.

They could be fast enough to shake off Ineos in the finals.

Who knows how 2 months off from racing has helped ETNZ.?

 

would be one crazy comeback, and some vocal commentators slating DB here would have some words to swallow.

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1 minute ago, shebeen said:

 

and some vocal commentators slating DB here would have some words to swallow.

A big overlap with the vocal commentators who have been already been shown to be talking bollocks when they criticised Ben for (inter alia):

  • Being too old
  • Being a displacement sailor who had no expertise on apparent wind sailing
  • Being incompetent in managing the programme to get the boat ready at the right time
  • Not listening to anyone

Judging by their admissions so far, I wouldn't expect any apologies or retractions however well AM do,

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Wind forecast for Friday is 16 knots with gusts up to 22 knots. The sort of weather that breaks boats when racing flat out. Similar weather when AM was last out racing 

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2 hours ago, terrafirma said:

From the footage we've seen of Patriot training since the mishap do they look ready to take on Luna Rossa.? 

Nope.  Looks like they have some flight control issues.  But hey, who's to say that doesn't change overnight?

I just wish them both well, and hope for a hard fought, close race.

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6 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Nope.  Looks like they have some flight control issues.  But hey, who's to say that doesn't change overnight?

I just wish them both well, and hope for a hard fought, close race.

In one of the recent interviews Andrew Campbell, the AM flight controller, mentioned that the control gizmo he's using have remained secret until other teams jumped in to help to save Patriot from sinking.

Has anyone managed to grab a photo of what his control station looks like? He's controlling it all by himself: flaps on both foils, cant angle on both foils, rudder pitch, dropping of boards?

It'd very interesting to see what kind of set up he's got there to do so much

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5 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

A bit older and starting to develop a smell you can’t quite put your finger in.

Ahhh you describe the average teenager there....

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1 hour ago, MaxHugen said:

Nope.  Looks like they have some flight control issues.  But hey, who's to say that doesn't change overnight?

I just wish them both well, and hope for a hard fought, close race.

Others pointed out on here that during that same practice day others had trouble with staying on and foil control.

So it’s a broad and incorrect statement to make based on a few minutes of video. We know from past examples that these short video clips do not represent the whole.

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Just now, I14RACER said:

Others pointed out on here that during that same practice day others had trouble with staying on and foil control.

So it’s a broad and incorrect statement to make based on a few minutes of video. We know from past examples that these short video clips do not represent the whole.

I've also watched all 50 minutes of Justin's video. Have you watched it?

AM did not look like they were in race-winning form. That is the opinion of my armchair.

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10 hours ago, mako23 said:

FFS can’t we leave it as good sportsmanship on both sides. I know some Americans view GD as the antichrist but he does has morals and a sense of doing right. 

Didn’t say he solely did it to have 2 teams in the Semi’s.  The ENTZ crew being on the water helping to keep the boat afloat shows sportsmanship was the primary driving force behind their effort but having 2 teams in the Semi’s had to have been a slight factor in having the ENTZ boat builders chip in. And why not?  It’s good for business all around.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

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8 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

I've also watched all 50 minutes of Justin's video. Have you watched it?

AM did not look like they were in race-winning form. That is the opinion of my armchair.

I have and to say that they have flight control issues is pretty basic. There are so many factors that go into these things flying that unless your riding the boat what do you know, nothing. She had issues. But she had the same issues days before the Christmas cup and the round robins. So did all the others. So what’s your explanation for the others having the same issues?

Perhaps it isn’t so clever to draw assumptions? Heck anyone can watch a video and make comments. Doesn’t make them correct.

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2 minutes ago, I14RACER said:

I have and to say that they have flight control issues is pretty basic. There are so many factors that go into these things flying that unless your riding the boat what do you know, nothing. She had issues. But she had the same issues days before the Christmas cup and the round robins. So did all the others. So what’s your explanation for the others having the same issues?

Perhaps it isn’t so clever to draw assumptions? Heck anyone can watch a video and make comments. Doesn’t make them correct.

I support the rights of all armchairs to make assumptions. :rolleyes:

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6 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Maybe a severe case of PTSD.

Post Trump stress disorder.

Nah.  It’s happy times with him gone.  Schools, shops and restaurants across the country are opening up now in celebration. ;)

WetHog  :ph34r:

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37 minutes ago, WetHog said:

Nah.  It’s happy times with him gone.  Schools, shops and restaurants across the country are opening up now in celebration. ;)

WetHog  :ph34r:

I might add that Dems and Republicans are getting along, left wing riots have stopped, Covid has been solved, the climate has been saved and dogs & cats are sleeping together.

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1 hour ago, pluscount said:

I might add that Dems and Republicans are getting along, left wing riots have stopped, Covid has been solved, the climate has been saved and dogs & cats are sleeping together.

This just in:

Cats are still hating dogs. Cats just bidin' their time...will soon be installing red stripes on all dog noses. 

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3 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

I've also watched all 50 minutes of Justin's video. Have you watched it?

AM did not look like they were in race-winning form. That is the opinion of my armchair.

Yes, and I think you are being a little too critical. Some squirrelyness is a nature of the beast.  You only have to very small points of contact and variable winds, these boats are in a constant state of flux unless the winds are strong and consistent.

Look at LR on the same day and explain to me if you see them much more stable...

 

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33 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

Yes, and I think you are being a little too critical. Some squirrelyness is a nature of the beast.  You only have to very small points of contact and variable winds, these boats are in a constant state of flux unless the winds are strong and consistent.

Look at LR on the same day and explain to me if you see them much more stable...

Yes, LR looked more balanced overall than AM.  IMO.

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23 minutes ago, Enzedel92 said:

I absolutely despise the unbalanced hull shape of Patriot.  Can anyone explain the reasoning for the full bow with no stern??

Shes going.to turn into a beautiful frog just before the cup and amaze us all. 

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24 minutes ago, Enzedel92 said:

I absolutely despise the unbalanced hull shape of Patriot.  Can anyone explain the reasoning for the full bow with no stern??

Tapering the hull is allowing for quicker reduction of wetted surface when taking off

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12 minutes ago, Enzedel92 said:

I absolutely despise the unbalanced hull shape of Patriot.  Can anyone explain the reasoning for the full bow with no stern??

I've always assumed that it's an aero thing and coupled with the bow down way that she flies.

 

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14 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

It only took NZ about a day to laminate the shell on AM’s mold.  AM could have done it in the corner of their own shed.  Of course it would have take time away from other other tasks, but they would have got it done.  I have said that everyone in the AM corner greatly appreciates the help.  I was just pointing out to not exaggerate how much NZ opened up their arms.

It takes more than a day to laminate a honeycomb sandwich panel- if you want to do it right!

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45 minutes ago, Enzedel92 said:

I absolutely despise the unbalanced hull shape of Patriot.  Can anyone explain the reasoning for the full bow with no stern??

They had to adjust the hull to accommodate the weight of the old fossils in the rear who do the driving and the pointing.:P

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The Resurrection of American Magic

A dramatic crash left a hole in the hull of a high-tech America’s Cup yacht. But a round-the-clock repair effort has brought the boat back from the dead.

 

“She picked up right where she left off — going fast,” Hutchinson said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/28/sports/sailing/american-magic-americas-cup.html?fbclid=IwAR3P9nrdR9jQMCc8oJLRu3PaYHwqKBDGzbvBFHwsZwqtUXCg7kTdbnpaLDQ

merlin_182444847_006bead0-26d9-4c77-ba9a-7a9d5bfb6d28-superJumbo.jpg

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57 minutes ago, Enzedel92 said:

I absolutely despise the unbalanced hull shape of Patriot.  Can anyone explain the reasoning for the full bow with no stern??

The skeg in the first 3/4 of the boat is to end plate the pressure differential between windward and leeward sides of the sailplan.  The aft quarter of the boat (when flying) allows that pressure differential to normalize and probably helps to minimize the disturbance that comes off the back of the boat.  Very aero solution from their friends in that industry.  The other three boats have also focused on the central bustle to help with takeoff.  To my eye NZ have the most developed hull shape (as close to a trimaran as you can get in a monohull, and the lowest/widest location of foil arm pivots to the rest of the boat). I think their foil solution with flattest foil dihedral and therefore longest section that goes perpendicular to that foil - which is very skinny, gives them the most mass furthest out from the boat when raised.

IMHO, flame away

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5 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

The Resurrection of American Magic

A dramatic crash left a hole in the hull of a high-tech America’s Cup yacht. But a round-the-clock repair effort has brought the boat back from the dead.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/28/sports/sailing/american-magic-americas-cup.html?fbclid=IwAR3P9nrdR9jQMCc8oJLRu3PaYHwqKBDGzbvBFHwsZwqtUXCg7kTdbnpaLDQ

merlin_182444847_006bead0-26d9-4c77-ba9a-7a9d5bfb6d28-superJumbo.jpg

Interesting:

On Wednesday, an issue with a tripping battery that briefly cut power to the boat was resolved out on the water during the boat’s first post-capsize sail.

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19 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Deano reminds me in some ways of Ed Baird who helmed Alinghi to victory in AC32. Both are very-very good helms, with a good measure of ice in their vines but still ‘cerebral.’ 

You  DO NOT  want to put these two sailor in the same sentence,   .....NEVER EVER ......
 

Untitled.thumb.jpg.4e7d79dffce7bd9f08b8e752029d9e30.jpg

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19 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Deano reminds me in some ways of Ed Baird who helmed Alinghi to victory in AC32. Both are very-very good helms, with a good measure of ice in their vines but still ‘cerebral.’ 

This is why I say what I say about Barker. You people act like he’s one of the best skippers/ helmsmen to compete in the AC. Dean Barker is a good sailor. Ed Baird is a GREAT sailor. Multiple world championships, and 2 AC wins. So far Barkers record is 0-5 2003, 2-5 2007, 8-9 2013, Semi final after being 3-1 up, lost to Artemis in 2017 and 0-6 2021. Not a good track record. 

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8 hours ago, MastaVonBlasta said:

In one of the recent interviews Andrew Campbell, the AM flight controller, mentioned that the control gizmo he's using have remained secret until other teams jumped in to help to save Patriot from sinking.

Has anyone managed to grab a photo of what his control station looks like? He's controlling it all by himself: flaps on both foils, cant angle on both foils, rudder pitch, dropping of boards?

It'd very interesting to see what kind of set up he's got there to do so much

The fact that the other teams may have seen their proprietary control systems during the rescue of Patriot is mostly irrelevant at this point. All the other teams are so far down the road on investing (from both a time in training and money spent) in their own flight control systems that even if ETNZ, LR and ITUK saw it and thought it was an amazing breakthrough, there's not enough time to develop their own version and get up to speed with it before they'd need it to be race ready.

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15 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

This is why I say what I say about Barker. You people act like he’s one of the best skippers/ helmsmen to compete in the AC. Dean Barker is a good sailor. Ed Baird is a GREAT sailor. Multiple world championships, and 2 AC wins. So far Barkers record is 0-5 2003, 2-5 2007, 8-9 2013, Semi final after being 3-1 up, lost to Artemis in 2017 and 0-6 2021. Not a good track record. 

t.someone who fails to understand that you cannot separate helmsman results from boat results. How can Ed be a "great" when he went 0-2 in 2010? Jimmy must be total trash for losing in Bermuda, and Outerridge and Cammas might as well be opti sailors if we look at their AC results from last cycle!

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