Jump to content

Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, Enzedel92 said:

I absolutely despise the unbalanced hull shape of Patriot.  Can anyone explain the reasoning for the full bow with no stern??

I quite like it, it's much less conservative than might have been expected from NYYC.

There is a minimum 70 m3 volume requirement for the hull, with 40 m3 ahead of the mast which means the forward section has to be a bit bulky. The rear section of roughly 50 m2 only needs to be about 0.6 m deep on average. So the back half can be slimmed down, less boat is less windage/drag, so just enough to satisfy the rules and buoyancy requirements while minimising aero drag means AM's tapered stern is a more extreme version of what all the teams have done.

In a way it means the rear half of the hull is acting like a winglet for the sail, rather than trying to extend the hull as an endplate to the water surface as LR's full length skeg seems to be attempting.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 14.8k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

And we have liftoff!!

I for one was happy to finally see an American team that didn’t just reek of assholes. Terry was a great bloke to have in front of the cameras and the intimate videos behind the scenes I found quite f

Posted Images

3 hours ago, Brutal said:

ITUK appears as though Ben does it all. 

No. Ben doesn't do flight control. Flight control is shared between Leigh McMillan and Luke Parkinson.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, RobG said:

I quite like it, it's much less conservative than might have been expected from NYYC.

There is a minimum 70 m3 volume requirement for the hull, with 40 m3 ahead of the mast which means the forward section has to be a bit bulky. The rear section of roughly 50 m2 only needs to be about 0.6 m deep on average. So the back half can be slimmed down, less boat is less windage/drag, so just enough to satisfy the rules and buoyancy requirements while minimising aero drag just means AM's tapered stern is just a more extreme version of what all the teams have done.

In a way it means the rear half of the hull is acting like a winglet for the sail, rather than trying to extend the hull as an endplate to the water surface as LR's full length skeg seems to be attempting.

Ain't that the truth. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Hemi said:

So fascinating to think about the sports psychology work going on at the moment within the American Magic team. So much to unpack: PTSD from the capsize, trust in the boat, old rivalries with Spithill, the do-or-die nature of these semifinals, etc. Love to know how these professionals deal with all of this even before the race starts. Imagine there must be conversations around the fact that this is it for AM, so push the boat as hard as possible knowing that it'll be a completely redundant piece of carbon fibre in two weeks time if they don't. Perhaps the underdog status will suit Barker's mindset too, who knows. Speaking of Barker, I am so bored of reading all the disparaging comments about him on this forum, for the last 7 years. Get over it, losers. He's a class act, can beat any of the other top notch skippers on a good day, and nobody needs reminding that he's also a far better sailor than any of the boring repetitive critics on here. And I bet he's having a fucking ball racing these beasts!

I think they can look at it that they survived about the worst crash that can happen in an AC75 at over 40 knots.  What else is there to be afraid of?  Just go all out with a quick hand on your knife if you need it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, RobG said:

Note to AC videographers: can you please include the head of the sail when taking video, especially for shots aligned fore/aft. Cropping the head is like a portrait that stops at the eyes.

If teams are playing with twist, particularly for active heel control and "reverse twist", it will be most evident at the head.

LR.thumb.png.02e889744b4e9af890a792899640a03f.png

I think many of the locals are trying to emulate the big time French professional photographer.  Most of his shots are tightly cropped and stylish compared to the more distant, full boat shots that we were getting in the past.

Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

I think they can look at it that they survived about the worst crash that can happen in an AC75 at over 40 knots.  What else is there to be afraid of?  Just go all out with a quick hand on your knife if you need it.

They also can afford a loss or two at the start to get the boat humming again...first to four gives small amount of leeway.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mako23 said:

I don’t think any is saying that he’s a bad sailor. He’s a very good sailor there is no doubt. Is he one of the best in the world...well that’s a different question. 

It just seems to go on and on and on and on and on and on..

Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

I think they can look at it that they survived about the worst crash that can happen in an AC75 at over 40 knots.  What else is there to be afraid of?  Just go all out with a quick hand on your knife if you need it.

True! I really hope they push it even harder now!!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Fuck me, credit where credit is due. Those blokes on AM have some huge balls getting out there racing in those conditions, right on the edge. They would have to have some doubts in the boat and whether it's all been put back together again, especially in those conditions. Hoping that something doesn't explode or let go, it'd be carnage.

Well done AM, hats off.

#respect

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Very disheartening for AM fans. TH did mention in his post race interview that the rudder was bent during the capsize, I wonder if the repair to it was not up to scratch?

Really, I've seen AM sailing way better that they did today, and yesterday during practice. There were also some practice videos prior to the capsize where AM didn't seem as balanced as before, but it's hard to tell.

Besides control, their VMG seems to have dropped significantly. Even upwind, when I would have thought the batwing might have given them a slight edge, they look to be sailing lower to the wind?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Something I did notice with AM - I have not seen with the other boats..

During some of the zoomed in shots from the side of AM, I noticed the foil arm bouncing while it was in the water.

Example:

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

4 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Is there anyone in the Amway sailing squad that could handle the starts and then pass the wheel onto grandad.

TH is a bloody good tactician, having him grind is just dumb. He needs to be free to do what Giles Scott is doing, giving clear direct instruction to Dean, and then it's up to Dean to execute. Someone on that boat needs to be in charge, scrap the committee approach, it's not working.

Unfortunatley it's too late to put Goodison on the wheel or on tactics, there isn't anyone else in the team with his experience on the main.

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, starlyte said:

Something I did notice with AM - I have not seen with the other boats..

During some of the zoomed in shots from the side of AM, I noticed the foil arm bouncing while it was in the water.

 

 

I notice as well. Maybe a bit like pumping a sail. :ph34r:

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Brutal said:

ETNZ did the same thing in BDA. Burling drove the boat and Tuke had the foil controls to fly her on his "bike". All of the other boats were "flown" from the helm. I'm surprised that only AM adopted this approach out of the challengers. LR may have the leeward helm fly the boat since they are using two helmsmen. ITUK appears as though Ben does it all. 

I agree, seeing close-up photos of the onboard gadgets and toys would be cool. But I'd also wager that the ETNZ guys who were crawling about on Patriot weren't taking a moment to snap photos of AM's proprietary gear as they worked to save her from sinking.

It seems likely that the magic in any of their control systems is inside the box, not so much the layout of switches on the outside.  Also way too late to reverse engineer anything significant at this point.

Given the recent results who would want to copy AM anyway?  They deserve all the credit in the world for getting out there at all but they just weren’t in it today.  Hope they get it sorted out tomorrow.

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Liquid Assett NZ said:

Throw that main in the trash 

The president of North Sails really hated that Sobstad main.  Hard to disagree with him.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Gee America’s cup is a cruel game....I do kinda feel sorry for the Yankee Doodles. If they lose tomorrow’s races they will go through the challenger series winless. Yet this wouldn’t be a fair result for  the effort they have put in. They have been a good competent challenger,  who has had rotten luck. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

So... so far we have the following:

LR has found its groove in higher winds through a combination of good sail choice,  new all-weather foils and KISS boat work.  Jimmy is winning the starts and there is better comms amongst the afterguard - although the latter may be due to being ahead and unchallenged around the course.

AM is looking very dodgy handling-wise,  finding it hard to go in a straight line and keep it together when completing a manouvre after going round the mark.  Reasons cited include too much main, old foils, flexing foil arms and a bent rudder.  Comms were simpler and clearer today but this may have more to do with being too far behind to get chatty about plans A B & C.  Or perhaps the  brains trust have nothing  left in the tank?

I hope it's a quick fix because this team doesn't deserve to leave without a win.

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, mako23 said:

Gee America’s cup is a cruel game....I do kinda feel sorry for the Yankee Doodles. If they lose tomorrow’s races they will go through the challenger series winless. Yet this wouldn’t be a fair commentary of the effort they have put in. They have been a good competent challenger,  who has had rotten luck. 

That, or in the enduring words of Dirty Dennis, they're sailing a dog.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, desperate time for AM now, the band aid was not enough to patch the wound, TH should give Dalts a call, see what ETNZ can offer to help bring this sinking ship back afloat.

Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

That, or in the enduring words of Dirty Dennis, they're sailing a dog.

Sail I take great umbrage at your derision of the great big man the AC comeback skipper never to be replicated however that cat dog reference reminds me that these new fangled flying machines have achieved quite a lot considering the bedding in regattas never materialised.
Four syndicates four vastly different treatments of hulls foils booms no booms etc etc there has been considerable design wriggle room in the AC 75 and surprisingly the speed differences in a straight line are not that wildly different.

Amway knocked over Te Rehutai in their first encounter the Frackers came back from the dead the two race wins for the Handbags today are their first legitimate wins I think this regatta has a few more twists and turns left to come .

Wonder what this guy on the right would be thinking.

42D268E2-0F80-4147-8DEB-BB7B9D552FC9.jpeg.0879f615eeb8ea6b58d48eaa4d64c693.jpeg

Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, TodB said:

The president of North Sails really hated that Sobstad main.  Hard to disagree with him.

Yup, that dog will not hunt.  the Doyle/Quantum bat wing has not shown promise and the race dates are going by quickly.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Sail I take great umbrage at your derision of the great big man the AC comeback skipper never to be replicated however that cat dog reference reminds me that these new fangled flying machines have achieved quite a lot considering the bedding in regattas never materialised.
Four syndicates four vastly different treatments of hulls foils booms no booms etc etc there has been considerable design wriggle room in the AC 75 and surprisingly the speed differences in a straight line are not that wildly different.

Amway knocked over Te Rehutai in their first encounter the Frackers came back from the dead the two race wins for the Handbags today are their first legitimate wins I think this regatta has a few more twists and turns left to come .

Wonder what this guy on the right would be thinking.

42D268E2-0F80-4147-8DEB-BB7B9D552FC9.jpeg.0879f615eeb8ea6b58d48eaa4d64c693.jpeg

Is there a way back for AM? I'm sure there will be loads of analysis overnight for their team, but it's last chance saloon time.

Despite the smaller sail plan, they looked out of control often. peaking 53.3kts, imagine that bear away with larger main?!

There's wind tomorrow, if they can get ahead in both starts they could be able to stay ahead in at least one race.

then it's light (and shifty) on sunday/mon, so anyone's gamble.

 

 

no matter what, someone's going home this weekend, and Ineos are probably just studying the italians

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there some connection to the foil cant arms bouncing and the resulting control issues due to the lack of longitudinal strength in the hull with no run in the aft skeg.

The loads on that tight arse must be phenomenal.

B7E9C5E8-0141-4FD7-BEA0-BC52D8CB2365.jpeg.df343b8bbbaa5d39efb8d0dc9755b819.jpeg

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, starlyte said:

Something I did notice with AM - I have not seen with the other boats..

During some of the zoomed in shots from the side of AM, I noticed the foil arm bouncing while it was in the water.

In the press conference there was a question about their higher foil cant but Terry declined to comment. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, sailfly said:

In the press conference there was a question about their higher foil cant but Terry declined to comment. 

They were certainly flying the tip higher than the orange LR tip. It works for etnz... From an eyeball look, no data, AM looked smart upwind.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Sad but it appears they will go home without a win in the Prada Cup.! They are miles away from where they need to be to win a race and that's why it looks like straight sets and out. 

It also appears that Luna Rossa got faster while AM were re-building. But AM are getting smashed in the starts, Jimmy has owned Dean for a while I think. Their sails are way different to the other teams, the smaller foils, the vibration in the helm there's lot's of tell tale signs. They will need to do an Ineos turnaround overnight or it's Goodnight Irene. And most likely the last we'll see of Dean Barker steering an AC boat. 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, barfy said:

They were certainly flying the tip higher than the orange LR tip. It works for etnz... From an eyeball look, no data, AM looked smart upwind.

They weren't a scratch on LR. They had lower VMGs more often than not and also couldn't slip into the real high modes that LR could. Having said that, their biggest losses were through the maneouvres. A long long way to go to be competitive I'm afraid... 

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, barfy said:

From an eyeball look, no data, AM looked smart upwind.

Yup she was a rocket pissed all over the Handbags and they are bathing Amway in a cool bath of Mumm as we speak fuck Barfy what are you on.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Much as SA dishes out the shit, I really feel for AM. Last 20 seconds on the Stbd stern cam after the finish said it all. Nobody moved. Deathly silence then someone, voice cracking a little "well that was pretty... disappointing". TH putting on a brave face at the presser but they looked gutted. Better luck tomorrow boys

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Aqua Firma 01 said:

They weren't a scratch on LR. They had lower VMGs more often than not and also couldn't slip into the real high modes that LR could. Having said that, their biggest losses were through the maneouvres. A long long way to go to be competitive I'm afraid... 

I'll wait till some graphs pop up...I agree they were soaking thru maneuvers. Need to be sharper. I did see some glimpses, the second beat. 

Not a fan, just trying to call what I see

Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, barfy said:

They were certainly flying the tip higher than the orange LR tip. It works for etnz... From an eyeball look, no data, AM looked smart upwind.

LR's foil tip also surfacing, but barely from what I've seen.

image.png.e465bc7a4cb5b9b8fbc886e341d65965.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Well, the summary email I got says they hit 53.51kt in Race 1. They are faster than the cats. 

That was probably for just 1-2 secs rounding the mark.  Is that how the cat's top speeds were measured?

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Well, the summary email I got says they hit 53.51kt in Race 1. They are faster than the cats. 

True that!!! In a race! 4k posts laid to rest.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, Priscilla said:
1 hour ago, barfy said:

From an eyeball look, no data, AM looked smart upwind.

Yup she was a rocket pissed all over the Handbags and they are bathing Amway in a cool bath of Mumm as we speak fuck Barfy what are you on.

Barfy can I have some of that Hallucination Stuff.? Must be good if you can still type? Typing is one thing, making sense is another. LOL Surely you typed smart instead slow.? :wub:

P.S. A lot of talk about Boat Speed but not enough about VMG

  • Like 1
  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Barfy can I have some of that Hallucination Stuff.? Must be good if you can still type? Typing is one thing, making sense is another. LOL Surely you typed smart instead slow.? :wub:

P.S. A lot of talk about Boat Speed but not enough about VMG

I wait for some graphers to prove me wrong, I'm up against it with holiday work.

My eyeball was AM made staggering losses on vmg downwind, but showed some promise up wind, second beat I thought they had the goods...wasn't to be

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

Well, the summary email I got says they hit 53.51kt in Race 1. They are faster than the cats. 

Terry said they'd gone quicker in practice. 

Amazing how a team that was so strong in the ACWS, has failed to fire in the PC. Today they looked nowhere near where they were pre-crash. All sorts of issues with the boat, from wobbly cant arms - maybe Defiant's FCS is a bit old and tired? A rudder that stalled out on nearly every fast bear away, and a sail plan that didn't look right. Problem is, they're out of time. Sad end for them.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Terry said they'd gone quicker in practice. 

Amazing how a team that was so strong in the ACWS, has failed to fire in the PC. Today they looked nowhere near where they were pre-crash. All sorts of issues with the boat, from wobbly cant arms - maybe Defiant's FCS is a bit old and tired? A rudder that stalled out on nearly every fast bear away, and a sail plan that didn't look right. Problem is, they're out of time. Sad end for them.

100% Very Sad End.. I was hoping Dean Barker would do well, Sad end for him too. Luna Rossa and Ineos have jumped the design curve while they were re-building so those 10 days are invaluable. the Americas Cup is always about time, this one more so.! TIMES UP AM.! 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Lat35sowth said:

Could be light and shifty tomorrow.

Weather gods might get AM a race win as long as they stay on opposite sides of racecourse.

AM have to get up off the foils to win a race. They got murdered in the breeze today one can only imagine what will happen in the light? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The way in which LR dominated AM today was quite a surprise for me... These kind of conditions with breeze over 15kts was supposed be the design sweet spot for Patriot and it got spanked...

Sure, it is fresh out of the shed after being re-built and there are niggles, but tomorrow it's looking to be lighter and LR have the momentum.

I really like this team, honest comms, huge respect for coming back from such a disastrous crash and I wish they were able to keep it closer for a better spectacle.

I guess things in AC can change very quickly so I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a big turnaround from the Patriot crew!

There was a brief shot of the starboard side cockpit, showing Andrew Campbell's flight controls kingdom in low resolution. I've noticed it before, but finally have seen a good shot of the grinder handle axis being horizontal, going into the box below the mainsail, driving all the hydraulic and mechanical bits.

Do any other teams have it this way too? Do LR have vertical pedestals? What do they have on Te Rehutai?

image.thumb.png.27d2a0a273352154a25947cb7dfb97b1.png

 

image.png.9814f7419a25c630ddd232bceb4a0c99.png

image.png.15376888afc8b5cbbd1ba9457b9db5b7.png

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, alphafb552 said:

Anyone else notice that Goodison was doing the countdown to the maneuvers instead of DB?

Seems like he has been demoted in the afterguard...

I think it is the opposite.

Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Manfred said:

I think it is the opposite.

I meant to say that DB has been demoted, with more responsibility  given to Goodison - which I gather is what you mean as well

Link to post
Share on other sites

Say this together with me:

 

“American Magic has not won a race in the Prada Cup and are 0-8.”

 

I am honestly still a little shocked.

 

After 4 years of buildup and AM can’t sneak one victory.

 

WOW

 

 

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, starlyte said:

Something I did notice with AM - I have not seen with the other boats..

During some of the zoomed in shots from the side of AM, I noticed the foil arm bouncing while it was in the water.

Example:

 

its been pointed out a few times. the bit i found nice was the hydraulic noise followed by the foil arm raising up by one "notch".

Link to post
Share on other sites

You can see in this video from Justin that the boat is not bearing away despite significant rudder input, which finally results with it stalling completely. Main does seem jammed in bloody tight for this maneouvre though. 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Americans are a funny bunch... blame it al on Barker!:D

From where I stand the boat isn't fast enough (designers to blame), the mainsail choice was wrong (sailmakers) and their way of communication definitely isn't up to standard (TH ??).  Also the boat seems very hard to control. Barker is just helming the thing. Even he cannot make a racehorse out of a (USA build)donkey. 

More embarrassing is that this team is in the top 2 budget wise and has been on the water the longest and they probably go home without a single race win.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, underperformer said:

Americans are a funny bunch... blame it al on Barker!:D

From where I stand the boat isn't fast enough (designers to blame), the mainsail choice was wrong (sailmakers) and their way of communication definitely isn't up to standard (TH ??).  Also the boat seems very hard to control. Barker is just helming the thing. Even he cannot make a racehorse out of a (USA build)donkey. 

More embarrassing is that this team is in the top 2 budget wise and has been on the water the longest and they probably go home without a single race win.

If AM cant win a race, it would be nice to at least win one start.  And congrats to he Italian team for having an almost entirely Italian team. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/28/2021 at 11:27 AM, shebeen said:

Really impressive we have a race this weekend. It is not unthinkable that they beat Prada in the semis. It would probably require that the roles between TH, PG and DB are a bit more solidified, but they have had 10 days off water to dial that in theory.

They could be fast enough to shake off Ineos in the finals.

Who knows how 2 months off from racing has helped ETNZ.?

 

would be one crazy comeback, and some vocal commentators slating DB here would have some words to swallow.

Funny to read this now...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

That was probably for just 1-2 secs rounding the mark.  Is that how the cat's top speeds were measured?

Yes just 1 or 2 seconds meaningless imo but touted

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe it was simply AM sailing in different breeze when this happened in the ACWS/Xmas ditty, but weren't they able to sail noticeably lower and faster DW than other boats on several occasions? 

If it wasn't the wind and indeed was the boat, where did this advantage go?

Also, regarding TH's comment on the rudder being bent, then having it "straightened".........at this point, with the absolute shitload of money that was likely thrown at the boat getting it back in the water, would a new rudder break the bank? I myself have "straightened" many things - nails, screws, various suspension components, the occasional moto brake lever, etc- many metal parts where you mutter under your breath on your way out back to the vise in the shed, "Ok, everybody cross your fingers", but that is a universe and the GDP of a small island nation away from the inner workings of an AC team. Perhaps it was a matter of prioritizing actions and this was lower/lowest on the list, but I really can't see how, as the rudder, you know, steers the boat.......

Link to post
Share on other sites

I suspect it's as simple as not having the tools / staff on site to build a new rudder, so there is more lead time in getting a replacement rather than a repair. Any of our resident foil watchers think that the old rudder off Defiant would work?

Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

I suspect it's as simple as not having the tools / staff on site to build a new rudder, so there is more lead time in getting a replacement rather than a repair. Any of our resident foil watchers think that the old rudder off Defiant would work?

Might be wrong but I think this is Patriot’s second rudder.

id guess the problem is more with the control system than the foil section itself. Curious what Terry said “bent”

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, underperformer said:

Americans are a funny bunch... blame it al on Barker!:D

From where I stand the boat isn't fast enough (designers to blame), the mainsail choice was wrong (sailmakers) and their way of communication definitely isn't up to standard (TH ??).  Also the boat seems very hard to control. Barker is just helming the thing. Even he cannot make a racehorse out of a (USA build)donkey. 

More embarrassing is that this team is in the top 2 budget wise and has been on the water the longest and they probably go home without a single race win.

Well that’s a hot take. Clearly it is not 100% on Barker, but the boat absolutely is fast enough to win races. They are clearly having control issues since the crash. Agreed on the sail choice too. Faster in heavy air straight line? Maybe, but what good is that if you can’t maneuver. It just doesn’t work in practicality.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, sosoomii said:

What’s the reasoning behind the step in the leach of AM main? I’d have thought if anything it should be a step out rather than in.

Maximising sail area and power in the lower half, minimising in top half to reduce heeling force and drag when twisted.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, blottodiablo74 said:

Maybe it was simply AM sailing in different breeze when this happened in the ACWS/Xmas ditty, but weren't they able to sail noticeably lower and faster DW than other boats on several occasions? 

If it wasn't the wind and indeed was the boat, where did this advantage go?

Also, regarding TH's comment on the rudder being bent, then having it "straightened".........at this point, with the absolute shitload of money that was likely thrown at the boat getting it back in the water, would a new rudder break the bank? I myself have "straightened" many things - nails, screws, various suspension components, the occasional moto brake lever, etc- many metal parts where you mutter under your breath on your way out back to the vise in the shed, "Ok, everybody cross your fingers", but that is a universe and the GDP of a small island nation away from the inner workings of an AC team. Perhaps it was a matter of prioritizing actions and this was lower/lowest on the list, but I really can't see how, as the rudder, you know, steers the boat.......

I’m guessing the rudder was either a prioritization issue or that they simply didn’t believe the damage to it was that bad. I don’t think anyone expected these guys to be 100% yesterday and they did should substantial speed at times, but they just didn’t seem like they had full control of the boat. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, EastCoastHustle said:

Concept seems to be effective but not practical 

Seems OK in theory, but perhaps they just aren't developing enough power in that lower section via camber etc, or for some reason they are struggling to balance the boat?

I did some rough measurements of LR's mainsail from overhead shots, and they are getting something like ~7.8% camber at the top of the Pirelli strip, and ~11.9% at the draft stripe above that.  Haven't looked at AM yet.

image.png.aa8eb41d337920259335904342f7acdc.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, EastCoastHustle said:

Well that’s a hot take. Clearly it is not 100% on Barker, but the boat absolutely is fast enough to win races. They are clearly having control issues since the crash. Agreed on the sail choice too. Faster in heavy air straight line? Maybe, but what good is that if you can’t maneuver. It just doesn’t work in practicality.

Classic American muscle car - pretty good in a straight line, just don't try going around a corner!

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Maximising sail area and power in the lower half, minimising in top half to reduce heeling force and drag when twisted.

That doesn’t need a step though, that’s a standard requirement for nearly all rigs (yet nearly all rigs don’t look like that). 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

Amazing how a team that was so strong in the ACWS, has failed to fire in the PC. 

<cough> sandbagging <cough>

AM always looked like they were sailing their boat hard, and on the edge.  There's been a lot of commentary about LR having plenty up their sleeves.  AM didn't look good out there yesterday, but LR will have taken the handbrake off too. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

AM exploited the way in which the mainsail is measured within the Rules, to achieve a sail that is lower than the minimum 135m2. Basically, there are measurement points on the leech, the "50%" and "75%" spots I think, and they have battens meet the leech at those points.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

We don't know.  It wasn't during a race.

OK.  Seems like rather a pointless "headline" number doesn't it.  Still, the AC75s are genuinely reaching 48-49 knots for periods on a course.

Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

OK.  Seems like rather a pointless "headline" number doesn't it.  Still, the AC75s are genuinely reaching 48-49 knots for periods on a course.

Not sure max speed is "pointless" - it does seem to be an indicator of instability. We see it happen as they hit beam reach during mark roundings and if that number hits high 40's or above, then that appears to be the dangerous cavitation point for rudders.  LRPP hit that point at 1st leeward gate and wiped out - AM seems to get stuck halfway thru bare-away, accelerate and then cavitate and crash.  Watch the speedo for coming excitement!

 

See GA's comments about speed limit on rudders approx. 4 mins in