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3 minutes ago, strider470 said:

A boat called Amazon Prime would be scaring

A boat called Model S would be even more scary because you just know it would leave no barriers in the way of innovation.

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And we have liftoff!!

I for one was happy to finally see an American team that didn’t just reek of assholes. Terry was a great bloke to have in front of the cameras and the intimate videos behind the scenes I found quite f

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1 minute ago, mako23 said:

Stock market doesn’t equal corporate sponsorship donation. Operational cash flow does 

Hence his point that it would not be corporate....it would be billionaires....and the Fed has created a ton of new ones in the last 12 months.

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3 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

 

A boat called Model S would be even more scary because you just know it would leave no barriers in the way of innovation.

Might be good with a flame paint job.

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Just now, Varan said:

Might be good with a flame paint job.

Nah.....that is prehistoric look for Tesla. It would be clean sparse uncluttered and "ludicrous" fast.

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7 hours ago, oatsandbeans said:

No carbon laminates don’t “bend” like that-they behave almost 100%elastically until they fail -normally with a Big Bang. So if you take them to 95% of their ultimate strength and then take the load of they are just return to just like they were before -no bend!

It is well know that repeated bending or large forces can cause reductions in the flexural modulus of carbon graphic composites.  The greater the force (more near the failure point), the more the possible reduction in flexural modulus.  So it is possible that the repeated vibrations along with a near failure crash could have caused the rudder to "soften".  It comes from micro cracks, micro de-laminations, some fiber breakage, etc that weakens the composite (it is not homogeneous).  We do not know if that is the case, but it didn't look like they had those same problems in the second day of races, so it may not be an issue.

AM was the source of the bent rudder idea, not me.

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6 hours ago, erdb said:

Data from yesterday's races show that while AM certainly had control issues, they were actually close to the performance they had in the RR before they capsized. It's LR who leapfrogged them in the meantime.

The only major issue that jumps out for AM is that they were pointing the boat all over the place downwind. Their downwind TWA was highly variable (130 - 165 degrees) compared to LR, which had a fairly narrow range between TWA 140 - 158. But on average, AM still pointed a little bit lower (dotted lines):

Comparing VMG to the capsize race (wind speed was ~ 1.5 kts higher yesterday)

Upwind, RR Race 6 vs Semi final Race 1:

AM had better upwind VMG yesterday than in the RR race, but that's expected since the wind was stronger. However, they've clearly lost their advantage in VMG relative to LR.

Downwind RR Race 6 vs Semi final Race 1:

Downwind, it seems AM is still able to sail with a higher VMG than LR at least some of the time, but due to their control issues, they can't keep that consistently, so the average VMG was a little lower than LR's, while in the RR they had a clear advantage in downwind VMG.

In terms of tactics, in Race-1, they were OK, but LR did a better job picking the shifts. In Race-2, they were identical (AM basically followed LR around the course):

     

Yes, Terry said that LR had the favored side of the course and had about an 8 degree lay line advantage (I think that is how he said it).

LR also noted today (race 3, 4) that they are able to sail a higher mode because of the larger foils.  

So that adds another element vs AM and eventually NZ.  LR and UK may not be as fast with the larger foils, but they can run a higher mode to get better VMG upwind.

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49 minutes ago, mako23 said:

Without a friendly billionaire or two it’s going to be hard. Corporate America is not exactly full of cash at the moment with COVID doing damage to the American economy

Wrong, the billionaires are not the ones hurting during the pandemic:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/12/01/american-billionaires-that-got-richer-during-covid/43205617/

 

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36 minutes ago, Varan said:

Harmonics can be tuned out. I don't buy it.

TH mentioned in the lauch interview they needed to straighten THIS rudder out post crash, imho no way the vibration / bucking that was visible was harmonic's

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7 minutes ago, Piet56 said:

TH mentioned in the lauch interview they needed to straighten THIS rudder out post crash, imho no way the vibration / bucking that was visible was harmonic's

7 minutes ago, Piet56 said:

TH mentioned in the lauch interview they needed to straighten THIS rudder out post crash, imho no way the vibration / bucking that was visible was harmonic's

My questions are.....how can the tactician  have his head down doing the grinding....going 50 mph and see what's going...and....the guy who won 9 straight in S.F. to keep the Cup is driving the Italian boat and the guy who was calling  his tactics is driving the Brit boat....and the guy who lost the 9 in a row is driving our boat.....so who decided on this pitching rotation

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Just now, AVALANINIA said:

so who decided on this pitching rotation

TH recommended the people he knows & sails with.... DB is a nice bloke, know him, provided meat bombs for the warm ups in a couple of match racing events (AKL & Penang)... The whole damned family are really good people.... He can race, did a decent job with the Nippon challenges...... hard to say not being there in AKL, I think Deano had outside worries.... that was a man under the pump on arrival that's for sure - everything else is pure speculation & is now history.

I cannot see him back (as helm) at any rate, I know for sure he sure as hell doesn't need the $$$...... He's got the contacts for the Pro-Circuit he will keep sailing if he wants, ditto TH who also is a decent bloke.....

Prada on the other hand have a couple of absolute arse wipes on the boat and on the shore base (Max for one) - would not cross the road to piss on him if he was on fire in the gutter....

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2 minutes ago, minimumfuss said:

What about sledging the Brits too? Let's keep our options open. 

We will see if the Brit's follow the form guide as other British  challengers in the past.... INEOS looks different, B.A & Giles are inside Jimmy's head for my money, this shit is about to get real

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Nice guys finish last?

Would seem so, based on TH and DB.  LE and RC were not nice guys.

My memory is fuzzy, but of the few campaigns the NYYC has fielded since Perth, how many have finished strongly?  The last time in Auckland, Young America almost found a resting place in the depths as well.

Too bad.  AM looked like they were prepared, had a plan, and were the kind of outfit befitting Roger Penske's association.

But the results ended up quite different.  Happens to RP as well (see-Indy '95).

Maybe it's just as well, if the NYYC had intended to return to leadmines as prematurely rumored.

The AC75s have turned out to be better than I thought, and evolution can make them even better.  And though it would have been their right to call the shots, as can any AC winner, stability and certainty is essential to sustainability, especially in sports having difficulty attracting competitors.  That lesson is taught repeatedly in motorsports.

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4 minutes ago, CheekyMonkey said:

Nice guys finish last?

Would seem so, based on TH and DB.  LE and RC were not nice guys.

My memory is fuzzy, but of the few campaigns the NYYC has fielded since Perth, how many have finished strongly?  The last time in Auckland, Young America almost found a resting place in the depths as well.

Too bad.  AM looked like they were prepared, had a plan, and were the kind of outfit befitting Roger Penske's association.

But the results ended up quite different.  Happens to RP as well (see-Indy '95).

Maybe it's just as well, if the NYYC had intended to return to leadmines as prematurely rumored.

The AC75s have turned out to be better than I thought, and evolution can make them even better.  And though it would have been their right to call the shots, as can any AC winner, stability and certainty is essential to sustainability, especially in sports having difficulty attracting competitors.  That lesson is taught repeatedly in motorsports.

Since Perth?

Including Perth. NYYC went home early there too!

(Dennis was San Diego)

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2 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

Terry said the shaking in the wheel is caused by harmonic vibrations in the rudder when it reaches a certain speed.  I never see it with the other teams, maybe they have it dampened from the wheel.  Seem strange that AM would be the only ones to not be able to figure it out.

I f you go back to the earlier races, even last year Dean appears to be fighting the wheel all the way around the course.

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2 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

Those comments probably aimed at the Brits to start the Psycho mind war that was first introduced to the AC by Jimmy Spitfire so effectively in SF.

Jimmy is that master at that.

Don't forget, when BA got on the boat in SF, there was one priceless moment when Jimmy was talking during a race and BA simply said "shut up and get on with your job", which is exactly what Jimmy did. I don't think Ainslie or Ineos are going to have any issues with Jimmy's mind games.

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2 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

I somehow doubt that any helmsman would want to dampen the feel from the rudder.

But that is exactly what you do on foilers. On Moths and A's, we use shock cord around the tiller to act as a dampener while on bigger foilers, it is built into the steering mechanism. It's usually done for 2 reasons. The first is that with so little rudder in the water and the high speeds, very small tiller/wheel movement can lead to very dramatic changes in direction. The other reason is what's usually referred to as "death wobbles", which is what sounds like was happening on AM. I admit I have no idea if the AC75's suffer from them, but the AC 50's do and so do most other foilers. Happens at about 28 knots on the Moth and about 24 knots on an A and IIRC, around 40 on the 50's.

Dampening the rudders on foilers is a bit like driving a car with no power steering - at slow speeds it feels heavy and dead but at normal sailing speeds, it is light and direct. 

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Thank you, AM...from Magnus, and all of us in NZ:

Farewell Magic

Escapology is an illusion. Magic sadly, isn’t real. Miracles, some would argue, do happen but today they were all out for American Magic as they drew the curtain on a campaign that showed class, spirit and unbelievable character. It was a chastening experience where minor, incremental boatspeed made the difference before gear failure haunted Patriot as Luna Rossa hammered home its upwind VMG advantage in perfect conditions to majestically progress through to the Prada Cup Final. It was a masterful performance. Calm and controlled. Poetry in motion.

“Now Ineos boys” said Jimmy Spithill as he crossed the finish line in the second race with Magic put to the sword and it’s game on for a Final that even the most hardened, wizened fortune teller would find tough to call. The real Jimmy just stepped forward. It’s game on now.

Citius, Altius, Fortius – Faster. Higher. Stronger. That was the story. Prada were simply the faster boat, sailing higher upwind and looking stronger all round in the first race. Gear failure in the second amplified the Italian advantage as the Americans struggled and fought a deteriorating Patriot. Sport can be hard to watch sometimes.

Two wins akin to a stroll in the park sealed victory in perfect outright speed conditions where the course uncharacteristically yielded zero passing lanes. The Italians looked measured and relaxed, confident even and just kept the peddle to the metal and the “foot on the throat” as was the call from Spithill when ahead. It was a simple covering exercise all day for Luna Rossa, the type you can execute when a little boat of boatspeed makes you a tactical genius. They have taken another step up the performance ladder. On this performance, Ineos has it all on to get close.

210129_sepm_americanmagic_42971-1024x102 © Sailing Energy / American Magic

Race one was a fabulous spectacle with small marginal gains being the tale of the tape. Race two brutally exposed American Magic’s time in the shed as debilitating foil cant issues appeared at the end of the first beat meaning Patriot struggled to drop their foils and it was game over. It was devastating to watch. The system wasn’t playing ball and it haunted them around the rest of the course as Luna Rossa powered off into the distance. This was not how the Americans wanted to lose. To their credit they stayed calm onboard. Class.

But it was heartbreaking. The Magic campaign promised so so much. As a blueprint for how to conduct yourself in the America’s Cup, it was flawless but performing the ultimate Harry Houdini trick and coming back from the depths of despair after the capsize and near-sinking was simply a trick too far. The fairytale was on but crushed at the wheel by an Italian team with little charm but devastating boatspeed.

The soaring highs before Christmas where Magic were the only team to take a win over the mighty Team New Zealand and promised so so much, were replaced by the devastating lows and stark reality that they never won a race when it mattered most. The America’s Cup is a cruel, cruel game. American Magic played it with gentlemanly sportsmanship and go home with both respect and dignity.

210129_sejr_americanmagic_150737-1024x10 © Sailing Energy / American Magic

To paraphrase “If” by Nobel laureate Rudyard Kipling: “If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two imposters just the same…yours is the earth and everything that’s in it.” Well for the American Magic team they can hold their heads up high. They performed miracles to even get back to racing. It was a gargantuan effort that tested characters and will to the limit. They won a legion of fans and provided the tournament and the fans with every story on the scale. The only narrative they couldn’t complete was a fairytale ending. The Cup will miss them. They have been terrific and there’s no doubt the New York Yacht Club will be back.

Prada were ruthless. Closing out the semi-finals 4-0 with the tantalising prospect awaiting them in the form of Ineos Team UK. They will need every ounce of this new boatspeed to take on the medal-heavy Lions, undoubtedly the best tactical sailors in this Cup. Whether they have cracked the code on these AC75s remains to be proven. American Magic provided little bite and offered few clues as to whether the Italian’s claim of a 10% improvement are true. Ineos, for sure, will be a very different prospect.

An emotional Terry Hutchinson paid tribute to his entire team and its legions of supporters – family members, patrons, sponsors. His voice was cracking as the brutal reality of the America’s Cup hit home. He has been a sportsman and a true gentleman. Rare in this game.

Farewell American Magic. Thank you. You have represented the New York Yacht Club with dignity and class. Every single team member can hold their head high.

The Cup is a poorer place with your exit. Come back soon.

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AM will be back. There may be a few changes, but not as many as some are predicting.  TH has the backing of the people who matter ($$) so he'll likely step off the boat and move more into a Dalton / Sirena / Simmer role, and I suspect even Dean may return (TH is very loyal) but not as helm - so likely in a role not that dissimilar to the one he turned down at ETNZ ...

This was ultimately a campaign of ifs.  If they hadn't capsized would they have improved at the same rate as LR and Ineos?  We'll never know, but the AM guys genuinely believe that Patriot is a fast platform so assuming the AC winners continue with a v2 of these boats then AM will hit the ground running next cycle.

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49 minutes ago, SimonN said:

But that is exactly what you do on foilers. On Moths and A's, we use shock cord around the tiller to act as a dampener while on bigger foilers, it is built into the steering mechanism. It's usually done for 2 reasons. The first is that with so little rudder in the water and the high speeds, very small tiller/wheel movement can lead to very dramatic changes in direction. The other reason is what's usually referred to as "death wobbles", which is what sounds like was happening on AM. I admit I have no idea if the AC75's suffer from them, but the AC 50's do and so do most other foilers. Happens at about 28 knots on the Moth and about 24 knots on an A and IIRC, around 40 on the 50's.

Dampening the rudders on foilers is a bit like driving a car with no power steering - at slow speeds it feels heavy and dead but at normal sailing speeds, it is light and direct. 

OK, I guess I'm showing my age, when cars didn't have power steering, and good feedback from the steering wheel of a sports car was vital.

Still doesn't quite make sense to me, to reduce the sensitivity of the steering gear, when that control itself is so sensitive. But I accept what you're saying, and will retire to my armchair. :)

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12 minutes ago, NSP said:

AM will be back. There may be a few changes, but not as many as some are predicting.  TH has the backing of the people who matter ($$) so he'll likely step off the boat and move more into a Dalton / Sirena / Simmer role, and I suspect even Dean may return (TH is very loyal) but not as helm - so likely in a role not that dissimilar to the one he turned down at ETNZ ...

This was ultimately a campaign of ifs.  If they hadn't capsized would they have improved at the same rate as LR and Ineos?  We'll never know, but the AM guys genuinely believe that Patriot is a fast platform so assuming the AC winners continue with a v2 of these boats then AM will hit the ground running next cycle.

Certainly hope to see AM back the next cycle.

Would be nice if AM stays around and do some practice with ETNZ.

Looks like the foiling monohulls are here to stay, Dean would be a bit too old the next time around, it is a young men's game now.

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Such fucking drama here.  And so many experts.

 

They failed in the light stuff.  Not what they bet on.

When the breeze came on they were way ahead until a big fuck up.  

Never the same after.

 

 

Lets keep it simple folks.  As an American I'm bummed but had a hard time rooting for anything the DeVos family was involved in and hired a foreign skipper(Hello Morgan Larson!).

 

Funny how in most sports the Olympics is the pinnacle and in sailing its the AC or some other super expensive race.

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4 hours ago, mako23 said:

Prada stated that they found another 10% speed. If that’s true and AM had not crashed, they still would of been losing 

I call BS. Maybe some gains but no sign in those races of nearly as much as 10%.

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5 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

I call BS. Maybe some gains but no sign in those races of nearly as much as 10%.

They definitely found some more speed, if it’s 10% I don’t know. 

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4 hours ago, mako23 said:

I hope American Magic come back again. Would be a shame to throw away everything they have achieved. They have petabytes of data, two whole boats to use. Experienced design team etc etc

Even Team New Zealand loses just as often as they win 

Doug DeVos, Hap Fauth and Roger Penske are not your flash-in-the-pan tycoons who cave in after getting bloody noses the first time around. They have something to prove and are in it for the long haul.

Much better to ponder the team makeup next time.

I believe we'll see Terry back again. Role uncertain but he is a steady and gracious leader with immense campaign experience. Highly likely someone new on the helm.  There is talent out there and time enough to audition, train and practise. And as noted above,  they can outfit and optimise two boats for that purpose.

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35 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

I call BS. Maybe some gains but no sign in those races of nearly as much as 10%.

If Jimmy said it at a Presser, it's bullshit.

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59 minutes ago, mako23 said:

They definitely found some more speed, if it’s 10% I don’t know. 

10% is three quarters of a lap by the finish. LR gains on AM were real but incremental until AM broke in R2.

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1 hour ago, KiwiJoker said:

Doug DeVos, Hap Fauth and Roger Penske are not your flash-in-the-pan tycoons who cave in after getting bloody noses the first time around. They have something to prove and are in it for the long haul.

Much better to ponder the team makeup next time.

I believe we'll see Terry back again. Role uncertain but he is a steady and gracious leader with immense campaign experience. Highly likely someone new on the helm.  There is talent out there and time enough to audition, train and practise. And as noted above,  they can outfit and optimise two boats for that purpose.

The boat was a galloppy  the helm broken goods the tactician grandad grinding wtf whose surprised with the result.

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Well the seppo’s are gone, who’s next ?

While LPP won convincingly the mistakes they made on course can be lead givers. The last race against Ineos saw what, nine lead changes ? And I’m pretty sure Ineos have been doing everything they can to find more speed, in the races against LPP they out sailed them with tactics not speed. 

Its gunna be real interesting!

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6 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Very sad after 3,5 years, they had an incredible courage, amazing class, they finished with a limping boat. The beginning of the end was their boat under water, even though they could not really come back they decided to fight to the end. Some insults here have been disgusting. They have to be proud of their courage and obstination. They are a lesson of first class behaviour, true gentlemen.

Courage and class don't beat skilled  starts, good teamwork in the afterguard, and keeping your boat together with superior decision making when rounding a too mark vin a breeze.

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1 hour ago, Rainier said:

........................................

Funny how in most sports the Olympics is the pinnacle and in sailing its the AC or some other super expensive race.

Mikaela Shiffrin an athlete saying what I have always thought. "Winning an Olympic Medal doesn't mean you were the best in the world, it just means you were the best on that day"

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, dullers said:

Equality of opportunity is fine but equality of outcome is a fruitless and bloody waste of time. It would be nice to enjoy the sport just for the pure bloody fun.

The purpose of grassroots outreach is to ensure equality of opportunity.....

 

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1 hour ago, mako23 said:

They definitely found some more speed, if it’s 10% I don’t know. 

AM and LR were hitting 50kts often enough it wasn't commented on overmuch. Were they that fast in the series of races leading up to the AM catastrophic event?

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Commiseration to the Yanks, you gave it yer very best shot… though sometimes it simply doesn’t gel and work out.

See you in four years we all hope!

V I N C I T   Q U I   S E   V I N C I T

 

 

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I wonder if any of the upgrades AM made were detrimental to their performance. Looking at F1 teams will have upgrade packages throughout the season but there are many times where the "upgrades" result in slower lap times. Wonder if this is a similar case. To my eye they have not behaved the same since they came out with the addition to their keel, although more likely another upgrade in the package. 

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1 hour ago, KiwiJoker said:

Doug DeVos, Hap Fauth and Roger Penske are not your flash-in-the-pan tycoons who cave in after getting bloody noses the first time around. They have something to prove and are in it for the long haul.

Much better to ponder the team makeup next time.

I believe we'll see Terry back again. Role uncertain but he is a steady and gracious leader with immense campaign experience. Highly likely someone new on the helm.  There is talent out there and time enough to audition, train and practise. And as noted above,  they can outfit and optimise two boats for that purpose.

I cant see the three NYYC financiers coming back unless they can find an after guard up to the job. At the moment there doesn't appear to be any US candidates at all in the fast foiling classes.

What is good to hear is that TH appears to have ruled out tuning up the kiwis. 

"In fairness to all the competitors, my initial thought is that it is not the right thing to do," said Hutchinson. "We have to be respectful to Ineos and Luna Rossa as well. They have skin in the game, and my initial thought is that it doesn't feel like it would sit right. At that point you are just interfering with the future of the competition and that is not us."

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Interesting clip from the NYYC person about their future "in some form", anyone pick them for CoR if LR win? They both have expressed an interest in going back to lead mines at some point...

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As I expected, American "Magic" broomed the jib trimmer who had ZERO to do with their shit decision that led to wrecking their boat.

Maybe he didn't have enough positive visualization?

When are 'America teams going to realize the sports psychology bullshit is a cover for shit leadership?

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1 hour ago, Nutta said:

AM and LR were hitting 50kts often enough it wasn't commented on overmuch. Were they that fast in the series of races leading up to the AM catastrophic event?

Didn’t think LR hit 50 ?

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4 hours ago, Barnyb said:

Goodbye Patriot 2.0

Put away for the last time.

20210130_180746.jpg

The Auckland Anniversary Day Regatta is on Monday... you know if you happen to have an extremely fast boat just sitting around not doing much.

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6 hours ago, Piet56 said:

Prada on the other hand have a couple of absolute arse wipes on the boat and on the shore base (Max for one) - would not cross the road to piss on him if he was on fire in the gutter....

Form not acceptable (unless you’re an Aussie) > ignore

 

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When you’re having a crap day the little things go against you too, AM picks up what looks like a bin liner when running a distant second. Sorry to see what looked like a good campaign fall away after Christmas.

CE780BD1-57FA-4AAA-AF0E-06B539A298FD.jpeg

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5 hours ago, SimonN said:

Don't forget, when BA got on the boat in SF, there was one priceless moment when Jimmy was talking during a race and BA simply said "shut up and get on with your job", which is exactly what Jimmy did. I don't think Ainslie or Ineos are going to have any issues with Jimmy's mind games.

I'm with Simon N on this. Ainslie / Scott could crush Spithill like an ant in mind games - see above - Jimmy won't have forgotten his "luck" taking an almost unbelieveable turn for the better when being bossed by Ben in 2013. Jimmy S is running scared mentally, and the 10% comment in not credible. I didn't see them finding 3 extra kts upwind and 4kts downwind in the last 2 days. They were a bit slicker as they had no pressure, which Ineos repeatedly laid on them in spades and just had to watch them crumble the previous weekend.

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4 minutes ago, Daniel Holman said:

I'm with Simon N on this. Ainslie / Scott could crush Spithill like an ant in mind games - see above - Jimmy won't have forgotten his "luck" taking an almost unbelieveable turn for the better when being bossed by Ben in 2013. Jimmy S is running scared mentally, and the 10% comment in not credible. I didn't see them finding 3 extra kts upwind and 4kts downwind in the last 2 days. They were a bit slicker as they had no pressure, which Ineos repeatedly laid on them in spades and just had to watch them crumble the previous weekend.

Mind games winners maybe, but I think the frackers are still vulnerable in light airs and upwind and were only a bit faster downwind. Agreed that handbags not 10% faster, but fast enough to force some pretty aggressive tactics on BA which might not work out so easily next time with Jimmy sailing with more confidence after four straight wins.

A first to seven series is most likely to go with the faster boat. 

 

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1 hour ago, winchfodder said:

Mind games winners maybe, but I think the frackers are still vulnerable in light airs and upwind and were only a bit faster downwind. Agreed that handbags not 10% faster, but fast enough to force some pretty aggressive tactics on BA which might not work out so easily next time with Jimmy sailing with more confidence after four straight wins.

A first to seven series is most likely to go with the faster boat. 

 

Remember that in the last race between them GB had no Cunningham, so with that fixed they would have been a bit faster. And will have got faster in the meantime too. So I have hopes for GB (but will freely admit to absolute bias)

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Why o why did Terry Hutchison think it was a good idea to be a grinder / tactician????????

Think about all the inner workings of an Americas Cup campaign.  The hundreds of personnel and contractors who Terry was responsible for.

Terry is good but he aint that good.  

And why did no one at NYYC say anything to Terry about this setup??? the hundreds of millions of dollars expended.

Terry should have NEVER been on that boat.  Dean was questionable but I like Deano as long as he has a STRONG TACTICIAN.  

And while Terry is a great guy personally, professionally he is going downhill, nothing against him but its a young mans game now.

And what if this would have been Ben Ainslie doing this and Ineos went down in flames 0-10????

 

Yall would have his head on a stick.

 

And the even bigger cock up is who are the young guys on AM that are going to carry the torch?????

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AM is a big organization - I'm sure there are plenty of people who should share responsibility for the outcome.

There's a lot we don't know yet, but probably a good bit will leak out over the next year or so, as the people go their own ways.

 

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9 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

 

A boat called Model S would be even more scary because you just know it would leave no barriers in the way of innovation.

I would like to see the "SailX" syndicate compete for USA.  Elon Musk has a lot of good controls systems engineering talent at Tesla, SpaceX, probably Boring Co., too. And he's got money. 

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I for one was happy to finally see an American team that didn’t just reek of assholes. Terry was a great bloke to have in front of the cameras and the intimate videos behind the scenes I found quite fascinating.

Certainly a shame to see them go down in straight sets but that’s the game.

A shame for Dean and some of the comments on this forum are disgusting, even for Anarchy.

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Ouch. That's a profoundly demoralizing way to end a campaign. The crew busts ass for nine days to get the boat back on the water, only to lose every race. For a cornucopia of reasons I hope this syndicate stays together. One most obvious reason at this moment is that the team that sticks together after this is a hardened team with the exceptionalism convincingly beaten out of them. This definitely seems to have worked for Ainslie's team over two campaigns. 

Speaking personally, I'm bummed. That boat was built a half mile from my shop. Boo hoo!

Now that the campaign is over and we do get to discuss major changes, I'm shifting gears back to where I was at the outset. LETS. HAVE. GOD. DAMN. TRYOUTS. Bust out the mule right now and let Gulari, Struble, CanfieldKotoun, Kirby, and all the other fast Americans with relevant non-keelboat experience steer for a hot minute. There's a two time moth world champion, engineer and professional sailor living in goddamn Detroit. And that's one guy! If terry doesn't like him, ignore terry for at least a month. If the boats are going to remain similar in the next edition (think AC72-AC50) the emphasis need not be on veterans who have a solid track record of leading a team through the process of ironing out a new boat (Barker on the AC72, Spithill on the AC72) and skippers can be recruited on different criteria. The kiwis picking Burling in 2017 looked pretty ballsy at the time, but it definitely didn't blow the guaranteed win that came from remembering that bicycles exist. The next American team needs to be faster than the team that wins this edition, not simply faster than the American team that just lost. 

DRC

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4 hours ago, sailfly said:

The purpose of grassroots outreach is to ensure equality of opportunity.....

 

I agree but it seems to me it is not an opportunity taken up by all. Should we force them to sail?  How about compulsory opportunity?

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3 hours ago, kiwin said:

So not only are you a moron, but also you can't count.

awww did i tickle your dangles too much?

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10 hours ago, mako23 said:

Dennis was not a winner all the time either. If you discount the big boat challenge which was not a match

He win in 1980 and 1987

He lost in 1983, 92, 95, 2000, 2003 

He was a winner with Courageous in 1974, starting helmsman and main trimmer with Hood after they pulled Bavier. Evens it out a little.

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41 minutes ago, Swanno said:

I for one was happy to finally see an American team that didn’t just reek of assholes. Terry was a great bloke to have in front of the cameras and the intimate videos behind the scenes I found quite fascinating.

Certainly a shame to see them go down in straight sets but that’s the game.

A shame for Dean and some of the comments on this forum are disgusting, even for Anarchy.

This. 

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10 hours ago, weta27 said:

Sad to see them go, especially after such early promise.

They were hard workers and decent guys, TH is a real class act. 

I hope NYYC comes back.

DSC_5721.JPG

And they have the coolest looking pair of AC75's in the field. Althout Prada b2 comes close.

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5 hours ago, winchfodder said:

I cant see the three NYYC financiers coming back unless they can find an after guard up to the job. At the moment there doesn't appear to be any US candidates at all in the fast foiling classes.

They definitely spent the money to win and AM sure looked like the best boat at Christmas but the issues came out with more racing. So I can’t  blame the money, even though the DeVos family is the Antichrist.

I also don’t blame Dean. He was not going to best Ainslie or Spithill without a significant edge in other areas. He was selected knowing that and the team didn’t give him an edge. The boat looked hot at Christmas but it was flawed - rudder, foil control, software. Terry selected him and the rest because they were his guys. Sometimes your guys aren’t the best guys.

And the tactics weren’t great, or the sail choices since Christmas.

Terry is most at fault. 

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1 hour ago, Rando said:

I would like to see the "SailX" syndicate compete for USA.  Elon Musk has a lot of good controls systems engineering talent at Tesla, SpaceX, probably Boring Co., too. And he's got money. 

I don't know much about Musk.., but I think his aim is to change the world, and I can only imagine that he would view the AC as much ado about nothing

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5 minutes ago, us7070 said:

I don't know much about Musk.., but I think his aim is to change the world, and I can only imagine that he would view the AC as much ado about nothing

He would view it as a wasteof money

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1 hour ago, loneshark64 said:

They definitely spent the money to win and AM sure looked like the best boat at Christmas but the issues came out with more racing. So I can’t  blame the money, even though the DeVos family is the Antichrist.

I also don’t blame Dean. He was not going to best Ainslie or Spithill without a significant edge in other areas. He was selected knowing that and the team didn’t give him an edge. The boat looked hot at Christmas but it was flawed - rudder, foil control, software. Terry selected him and the rest because they were his guys. Sometimes your guys aren’t the best guys.

And the tactics weren’t great, or the sail choices since Christmas.

Terry is most at fault. 

My view is that AM never thought they could win this cycle of the cup. Dean may not be the best helm/skipper, but he has 20+ years of cup knowledge and AM wanted to mine it. 

Assuming AM is back in the next cup, I doubt Dean will be there. Sad, but true.

 

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Having built and sailed two AC75's, AM have a lot of experience, and IP - flight control, twin mains, foil design etc......It's a solid foundation in which to go forward with another campaign. They wouldn't be starting from scratch, assuming the rule doesn't change much. It would be a pity to let that knowledge base go to waste. Terry should probably go into a management role like Dalts. Dean could coach/mentor, like Ray Davies. Rolling forward with your accumulated knowledge has been the key to NZ's success. Ben realises it. Iain Percy spoke of it in his interview with Shirley.

I hope the backers of AM do commit to another go. Having the NYYC participate is great for the event - but you do have to see it as a long game. Heck if Trump can raise 200 million in a matter of weeks for a phoney PAC, surely the richest country on earth can find a couple hundred mill for another crack at the Auld mug.

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I wouldn't mind NYYC if the $ came from other people than the AM ones. I would be enthusiastic if they got more Americans sailing. Even greencard/dual ones like Slingsby or (urg) Jimmy at the helm. 

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