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And we have liftoff!!

I for one was happy to finally see an American team that didn’t just reek of assholes. Terry was a great bloke to have in front of the cameras and the intimate videos behind the scenes I found quite f

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2 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Whoops missed one.

Crikey what a loser you gotta wonder why he even leaves the dock:P

Large_ClubMed-04.thumb.jpg.fc63977872cab82f0b4f528acdb411ee.jpg

Idiots....  Confusing blake with Dalton's list.

 

Obviously just cut n paste from wikipedia

Go back and correct your list.

 Heres a start....

Club Med was blake.

Flyer was Dalton. 

Blake rejected Dalton for lion NZ as he was to egotistical..    might pay for you to read up on your HISTORY.

Blake hated Dalton.

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11 hours ago, Monkey said:

What the fuck?  He’s admitting they got owned in the start box. You’re an ignorant little twat if you can’t figure that out. 

Exactly...  Barker got owned. And admitted it, and did nothing to resolve his weakness other than getting owned in every race.

 

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2 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Whoops missed one.

Crikey what a loser you gotta wonder why he even leaves the dock:P

Large_ClubMed-04.thumb.jpg.fc63977872cab82f0b4f528acdb411ee.jpg

Not a lot of  wins in that lot of blake and Dalton events.  .. oh that right.... Competing is winning for you PC socialist Ardern loving pussies

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35 minutes ago, Baconator said:

Idiots....  Confusing blake with Dalton's list.

 

Obviously just cut n paste from wikipedia

Go back and correct your list.

 Heres a start....

Club Med was blake.

Flyer was Dalton. 

Blake rejected Dalton for lion NZ as he was to egotistical..    might pay for you to read up on your HISTORY.

Blake hated Dalton.

I love it when assholes prove they are idiots. 
Club Med was Dalton. 
Enza was Blake. 
Flyer was Connie. 
 

Blake had respect for Dalton. 

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6 hours ago, Baconator said:

Yip, ETNZ got rid of Barker and won. And will win again.

Ben Ainsley is a great sailor.

Burling is on the cusp of greatness.

Coutts is a great Sailor.

Conner is  great sailor.

Dalton is not a great sailor but a great CEO / money man.

Good enough to win a Whitbread though ON THE BOAT! along with The Race on a maxi cat. I would say that elevates him above a very large % of the sailors out there but yes, he is certainly a better CEO than Coutts

EDIT : Just been reminded by Fiji's post - Dalts has 2 Whitbread victories, one as crew and one as skipper

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23 minutes ago, JJD said:

I love it when assholes prove they are idiots. 
Club Med was Dalton. 
Enza was Blake. 
Flyer was Connie. 
 

Blake had respect for Dalton. 

Exactly JJD, give them enough rope & they hang themselves. Even Google would have told him that. Wasn't ENZA Blake with RKJ? 

One thing missing from many posts is a little respect for what people have done. You don't have to like someone to respect their achievements.

Perhaps Dean has lost an edge (note the word perhaps) but as i have mentioned before the loss in 2003 was against a superior team an certainly a superior boat that didn't have to bail the cockpit in one race and lose the mast in another and in 2007 he DID take two races out of Alinghi and lost a third by just one second.

He is also, like Dalton, a better sailor than AT LEAST 99% of the posters on this forum  

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1 hour ago, Baconator said:

Idiots....  Confusing blake with Dalton's list.

 

Obviously just cut n paste from wikipedia

Go back and correct your list.

 Heres a start....

Club Med was blake.

Flyer was Dalton. 

Blake rejected Dalton for lion NZ as he was to egotistical..    might pay for you to read up on your HISTORY.

Blake hated Dalton.

As I said earlier fool toddle off.

While you are eating historical crow it was Blake that gave Dalton a glowing reference which put him on Flyer with Conny that fool is the true history.

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21 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

He is also, like Dalton, a better sailor than AT LEAST 99% of the posters on this forum  

100% of the sailors on this forum.  Unless Ben, Jimmy, Pete and co are browsing today in which case 99.99%.

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13 hours ago, Meat Wad said:

WhyTF is NASA using the private sector now?? Because they do it better and more cost effectively.

I do not want 1 dime of my tax money that goes to NASA to be spent on a private sector sailboat race that is governed by Deed that has been so misinterpreted by lawyers and the courts. If the private money is so inept and unable to secure some of our Private sector aerospace companies to join in, OH WELL .

And don't forget, only Sailors care about Sailing. The other 98% of the worlds population could give a rats ass.

BTW, the Rolex 24 at Daytona has been a pleasure to watch (when I am awake). Those DPi cars are way more fun to watch than any F1 race.

If it wasn't for SpaceX, the U.S. would still be paying the Russians to carry Americans into space, like it has been doing for the past decade.  Ponder that for a moment.

Meanwhile, piles of tax dollars are still being shoveled into Boeing's incinerator, and the pork project that is the SLS has little to show for it, even with the help of recycled Shuttle program parts.

I'm not a member of the Musk cult, but to downplay the disruption his companies have brought to the space and automotive industries is more than a bit of denial.

And, people watch F1 for competitive racing?  It's a design contest, with a soap opera/circus on the side, which fuels the tabloid press that covers it.  Oh Toto, how do you feel today?

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17 minutes ago, sailman said:

All this hate spewed at Barker makes Coutts and Butterworth’s decision to leave NZ more clear.

From my perspective it ain’t hate a 20 + year AC odyssey just crashed and burned in his home town on the sparkling Waitemata  time for Deano to move on for his own and families health and well being.

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23 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Are you sure it's steel, or rather metal, like titanium?

And all the way in the shaft, or just locally?

 

As for NYYC I don't know .. yet .. but other teams have fabricated steel rudder blades, as was the case in Bermuda already.                                 

By hear say the choice of material would result from the profile and at the same time the need to make room for elevator commands going inside.

As for shafts I do not know.

 

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2 hours ago, moody frog said:

As for NYYC I don't know .. yet .. but other teams have fabricated steel rudder blades, as was the case in Bermuda already.                                 

By hear say the choice of material would result from the profile and at the same time the need to make room for elevator commands going inside.

As for shafts I do not know.

 

Moody, let's keep it relatively simple, and stick to rudders.

Intuitively I don't see how steel can ever have a place in the vertical part of the rudder. That said, I can imagine that an anti-cavitation profile needs to be so thin that a special steel alloy is the only option.

As for the horizontal foil, the same might apply, and there bending characteristics of steel could possibly be used to some advantage.

Anyway, now that Team America is not so Magic anymore, you might find out more in due course, as you alluded to, "yet"...

 

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1 hour ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Intuitively I don't see how steel can ever have a place in the vertical part of the rudder. That said, I can imagine that an anti-cavitation profile needs to be so thin that a special steel alloy is the only option.

Stainless steel gives you the highest stiffness:thickness ratio, which is why it's often used in keel fins. The rudder's going to get a lot more bending moment from side loads than on a normal boat, because only the bottom part in the water; any deflection due to that bending is going to alter the direction of lift from the foil at the bottom, which could cause control issues. My guess is that a stainless rudder blade is the easiest way to minimise that deflection.

With the weight of the boats closely controlled, stiffening your foils might be a good way of getting an underweight platform up to weight, and the boats don't seem to pitch much, so weight in the ends of the boat might not be a big deal.

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Many long skinny rudders are made of steel.  It is very strong, and although not as stiff as carbon, bends rather than breaks.

Steel can also be forged and hardened. Samurai would never take a carbon fiber katana into combat.

SHC

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One fucking idiot says ‘no they arent made of steel’ and you all take their word over the teams.. 

INEOS, NZ and AM have all said they used or are using steel. 
 

because one dick head with a bacon fetish hasn’t heard of it you now all are running around trying to appease his stupidity? Wtf. 

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3 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

because one dick head with a bacon fetish hasn’t heard of it you now all are running around trying to appease his stupidity? Wtf. 

Apologies, its second nature because I have had to deal with politicians

(with apologies to one, who is a friend, and also one of the most intelligent and honest people I know)

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Watched the above and something didn't wash.

They said that Patriot was designed and setup for straight line speed, but as a consequence the sailing team didn't have the confidence to perform tight turns on the foils and around the marks........which sounds a reasonable conclusion.....only, in that last race to create the split at the bottom mark they performed a turn to take the bottom left gate and create the split that was excellent i.e. right up there with Ineos's turn the create the split again LR.......

History is going to be a harsh judge or AM/Patriot and I get that, but lets not neglect that she did have moments, and that mark rounding was one of them.

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On 1/30/2021 at 7:53 PM, Rasputin22 said:

I would like to see how Composite Engineering would have configured their filament winding method for building a D-section for one of these spars.

triaxial-braid-system.jpg

 

Guess that picture is braiding carbon over a mandrel, not filament winding.

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Just now, jorge said:

Guess that picture is braiding carbon over a mandrel, not filament winding.

Jorge,

    You are exactly right! But filament winding uses a mandrel too so what distinguishes one process from the other? I guess it is whether the unifibers are actually woven as opposed to merely overlapping. Seems that the crimping that would result from the braiding technique would be less desirable due to the little interstices that would result. I never really gave that much thought until your comment.

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Guess the process is a little bit more complicated, (braiding). More waste of material. Anyway you can put fibers along vertical axis (triaxial braiding) to reduce instertices and increase longitudinal strengh or make more layers. Surely manufacturers know mucho more than me...

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On 1/30/2021 at 5:53 PM, Rasputin22 said:

I would like to see how Composite Engineering would have configured their filament winding method for building a D-section for one of these spars.

triaxial-braid-system.jpg

 

Composite Engineering has closed shop and down sized to a one man operation in Westport Mass.

That's moving south in Van Dusen speak.

The braiders and autoclave have been moved to Moore Brothers/ Composite Solutions in Bristol RI.

SHC

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Steve Clark said:

Composite Engineering has closed shop and down sized to a one man operation in Westport Mass.

That's moving south in Van Dusen speak.

The braiders and autoclave have been moved to Moore Brothers/ Composite Solutions in Bristol RI.

SHC

 

 

Thanks Steve, that is a shame...

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1 hour ago, jorge said:

Guess the process is a little bit more complicated, (braiding). More waste of material. Anyway you can put fibers along vertical axis (triaxial braiding) to reduce instertices and increase longitudinal strengh or make more layers. Surely manufacturers know mucho more than me...

Main benefit of filament winding is that it is largely automated, so you cut down on manhrs in a production environment, which is what warrants that sort of investment. I think you can get to around 10 deg from zero axis, which is not a big comprimise TBH. On non circular mandrels you can see resin starvation around tight corners etc which can be limiting - consolidation from shrink tape depends locally on shape.

For AC of other GP stuff, I think that female moulding or male (roll wrapped) is preferred, with autoclave pressure - both processes lend themselves to more expensive and custom products.

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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/americas-cup-2021-american-magic-helmsman-dean-barker-live-on-newstalk-zbs-mike-hosking-breakfast/ZO6KYDINF35N3IQL224N34BC2Y/

Listen to Barker's excuses for losing the starts ( covid19. .). . . Hello Dean!?... It was the same for all teams!....  Stop blaming everything else and reflect inwardly.

 

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11 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Good enough to win a Whitbread though ON THE BOAT! along with The Race on a maxi cat. I would say that elevates him above a very large % of the sailors out there but yes, he is certainly a better CEO than Coutts

EDIT : Just been reminded by Fiji's post - Dalts has 2 Whitbread victories, one as crew and one as skipper

Fuck off... Coutts is better and won more.

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8 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Do you guys have to keep quoting resident troll Baconator ? Plenty have him on iggy, we are trying to tune him out. 

Can't handle the truth....  So easy to use the troll excuse when you can't argue the point.

You're so lame!

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3 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

One fucking idiot says ‘no they arent made of steel’ and you all take their word over the teams.. 

INEOS, NZ and AM have all said they used or are using steel. 
 

because one dick head with a bacon fetish hasn’t heard of it you now all are running around trying to appease his stupidity? Wtf. 

Steel...   Whats steel ?...

Get more accurate. They are not made if steel!  Steel is a generic term..

What ratio of iron v chromium v carbon v....

Get the picture now!?

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On 1/29/2021 at 11:33 AM, jhc said:

Shaking is cavitation/stall issue. 
The bear away video from Friday, you see the rudder turn quickly to the end stop. That is not helm induced, that is cavitation inducing a flow separation on one side of the rudder. Added cavitation induced drag forcing the rudder to turn toward that side. 
If the steering was hydraulic control the rudder would not turn, but the added force would bend the blade, or cause some other failure in the rudder, or linkage. 
The cavitation probably is caused by a poor choice of foil cross section, as in max chord too far from the leading edge.

I'd like to add to this post with a video I just discovered in GA. 

 

Early in this video there is discussion about the rear stabilizer, and how at a critical flow speed, disturbed flow on the upper surface caused the stabilizer to lose effectiveness, and would lead to rapid dive. The AM rudder showed a similar tendency in a video I watched during a stbd rounding bear away. The issues the AC boats are dealing with are similar to the issues that were overcome in the effort to break the sound barrier. Obviously AC dealing with water, and X-1 dealing with air at high altitude. 

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2 hours ago, Baconator said:

Steel...   Whats steel ?...

Get more accurate. They are not made if steel!  Steel is a generic term..

What ratio of iron v chromium v carbon v....

Get the picture now!?

I suppose you don’t believe the hulls are carbon because they haven’t told you the precise lay up, cloth weights resin system or core material. 
 

 

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1 hour ago, jorge said:

Never thought i would say this... but I miss Dougie...

Best to hide that thought, quicker than you can say, "Fire Arrow". ;-)

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11 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Moody, let's keep it relatively simple, and stick to rudders.

Intuitively I don't see how steel can ever have a place in the vertical part of the rudder. That said, I can imagine that an anti-cavitation profile needs to be so thin that a special steel alloy is the only option.

As for the horizontal foil, the same might apply, and there bending characteristics of steel could possibly be used to some advantage.

Anyway, now that Team America is not so Magic anymore, you might find out more in due course, as you alluded to, "yet"...

 

Why can't you all get the spelling correct, it is RUTTERS.  HTFU>

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13 minutes ago, zenmasterfred said:

Why can't you all get the spelling correct, it is RUTTERS.  HTFU>

Excuse me!

On 2/1/2021 at 12:20 AM, Fiji Bitter said:

Thanks, rather surprising for a rutter. I suppose that they want it to bend in a certain way.

Too far in Patriot's case, they must have used vibranium steel !

 

Apparently the correct spelling and the Vibranium is waisted on these pseudo metallurgist !  :P

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Funny, this thread may outlast team patriot.

I've got t-shirts that outlasted the program, so I shouldn't be surprised. 

But, a post mortem is suppose to be after the fact, and I think we had it already...

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15 hours ago, jhc said:

Funny, this thread may outlast team patriot.

I've got t-shirts that outlasted the program, so I shouldn't be surprised. 

But, a post mortem is suppose to be after the fact, and I think we had it already...

Nothing funny about it, It is after all called  the 'Team NYYC' thread, not 'American Magic'!

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On 2/1/2021 at 5:24 PM, Chris UK said:

Watched the above and something didn't wash.

They said that Patriot was designed and setup for straight line speed, but as a consequence the sailing team didn't have the confidence to perform tight turns on the foils and around the marks........which sounds a reasonable conclusion.....only, in that last race to create the split at the bottom mark they performed a turn to take the bottom left gate and create the split that was excellent i.e. right up there with Ineos's turn the create the split again LR.......

History is going to be a harsh judge or AM/Patriot and I get that, but lets not neglect that she did have moments, and that mark rounding was one of them.

A good mark rounding..... grasping at straws ?

This is the America's Cup not a Wednesday night beercan race

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21 minutes ago, underperformer said:

A good mark rounding..... grasping at straws ?

This is the America's Cup not a Wednesday night beercan race

Yes and no. A few weeks ago some people were crowing about LR and NZ being able to pull more complex turns (and not long before that GB couldn't do simple turns).

Plus I would say, that at a level somewhat above beercan races, we used to spend a lot of time practising mark roundings.. Some of the variations are way above beercan racing.

On the other hand, yes it as grasping at straws if you can only point to a single mark rounding

But on a more important point, what the hell is wrong with wednesday evening beer can races anyway? Great fun (though extending that rate of drinking to a whole offshore race and in consequence navigating across a rock that should have been 2/3 of a mile away was in hindsight possibly a mistake, even though we still came 3rd)

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27 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Yes and no. A few weeks ago some people were crowing about LR and NZ being able to pull more complex turns (and not long before that GB couldn't do simple turns).

Plus I would say, that at a level somewhat above beercan races, we used to spend a lot of time practising mark roundings.. Some of the variations are way above beercan racing.

On the other hand, yes it as grasping at straws if you can only point to a single mark rounding

But on a more important point, what the hell is wrong with wednesday evening beer can races anyway? Great fun (though extending that rate of drinking to a whole offshore race and in consequence navigating across a rock that should have been 2/3 of a mile away was in hindsight possibly a mistake, even though we still came 3rd)

agreed agreed, nothing wrong with beercan racing. Any racing is good when you are having fun I guess. I even enjoy the virtual kind nowadays

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52 minutes ago, underperformer said:

A good mark rounding..... grasping at straws ?

This is the America's Cup not a Wednesday night beercan race

You've clearly never sailed with a national/international championship helm......or you'd have more respect for maneuvers.....

Maneuvers performed under pressure win races, as AMs turn at speed was....hell, Nathan Outterridge is forever telling you as much if you'd only listen.

Maneuvers are the bendy bits that connect the straight bits for christsake.

Obviously not relevant to you as socks don't sail.

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Steel is a better option than carbon fiber if volume/thickness is a constraint, like in a rudder. CFRP has a better stiffness to weight ratio but per unit of thickness/volume it is around 1/5 as stiff as steel. 

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1 minute ago, Chris UK said:

You've clearly never sailed with a national/international championship helm......or you'd have more respect for maneuvers.....

Maneuvers performed under pressure win races, as AMs turn at speed was....hell, Nathan Outterridge is forever telling you as much if you'd only listen.

Maneuvers are the bendy bits that connect the straight bits for christsake.

Obviously not relevant to you as socks don't sail.

I did sail with world class helms and quite often too. Where exactly did I say turn aren't important ? Or where did I say I didn't know what turns are. Get the poo out of your eyes.

I was only amused by the fact that people where talking about 1 good turn. As everybody knows even a broken clock is right twice a day. AM is a broken clock

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7 hours ago, underperformer said:

A good mark rounding..... grasping at straws ?

It's an interesting point, though.  One of the most basic tactics at a mark rounding is to go into the mark wide so you end your turn on the new course right at the mark.  Minimize wasted distance.  

I haven't seen *any* of the teams do that with any consistency.  The vast majority of mark roundings, the turn started at the mark and then chewed up wasted distance above (or below) the mark before settling down on the new course.

Other than the obvious (speed's effect on the turn), is there a reason they're willing to burn distance after the turn rather than use the distance before the turn to make their rounding more efficient?

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25 minutes ago, sledracr said:

It's an interesting point, though.  One of the most basic tactics at a mark rounding is to go into the mark wide so you end your turn on the new course right at the mark.  Minimize wasted distance.  

I haven't seen *any* of the teams do that with any consistency.  The vast majority of mark roundings, the turn started at the mark and then chewed up wasted distance above (or below) the mark before settling down on the new course.

Other than the obvious (speed's effect on the turn), is there a reason they're willing to burn distance after the turn rather than use the distance before the turn to make their rounding more efficient?

I've noticed this as well. They seem to sail high angles after the windward mark rounding out to the boundary before gybing and settling down to slightly deeper angles. 

I'm sure there's a very good reason for this, just always looks odd to me.

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9 minutes ago, idontwan2know said:

I've noticed this as well. They seem to sail high angles after the windward mark rounding out to the boundary before gybing and settling down to slightly deeper angles. 

I'm sure there's a very good reason for this, just always looks odd to me.

I think that at times they are doing that because of difficulties in the bear away. Whether that is a balance issue or because of cavitation I don't know

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7 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

I think that at times they are doing that because of difficulties in the bear away. Whether that is a balance issue or because of cavitation I don't know

That makes sense...take the step down in speed at the bear away in stages rather than accelerating and then decelerating down to your ideal VMG course all in one maneuver.

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33 minutes ago, idontwan2know said:

That makes sense...take the step down in speed at the bear away in stages rather than accelerating and then decelerating down to your ideal VMG course all in one maneuver.

Agreed too. Bearaways are the scariest maneuvers for these boats, by far.  
 

There could be tactical advantages too. 

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Is it me or did it seem that all NYYC's talk about bringing the cup back to big displacement hulls off the coast of Newport not bode well for the magician's chances from the beginning?

Anyone that wants to bring it back to those boats clearly doesn't understand the new boats enough to win.

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Just now, InDecentSea2047 said:

Anyone that wants to bring it back to those boats clearly doesn't understand the new boats enough to win.

It must be the opinion of some at NYYC but I can’t see how it relates at all to AM’s AC75 Design group - who probably love this boat. 
 

On that general subject, it seems to me that if NYYC (or anybody else) wants to win what is a design competition in what will likely be an AC75 V2 then the smartest (and most expensive) move would be to double down and recruit the likes of Bernasconi, Holroyd, Fischer, and Marcelino Botin to corner the market. Plus whatever brain trusts they want to bring along, their software systems and expertise included. 

 

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10 minutes ago, InDecentSea2047 said:

Is it me or did it seem that all NYYC's talk about bringing the cup back to big displacement hulls off the coast of Newport not bode well for the magician's chances from the beginning?

Anyone that wants to bring it back to those boats clearly doesn't understand the new boats enough to win.

But knows what the rich club and community there wants to see and do. 

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1 minute ago, Stingray~ said:

It must be the opinion of some at NYYC but I can’t see how it relates at all to AM’s AC75 Design group - who probably love this boat. 
 

On that general subject, it seems to me that if NYYC (or anybody else) wants to win what is a design competition in what will likely be an AC75 V2 then the smartest (and most expensive) move would be to double down and recruit the likes of Bernasconi, Holroyd, Fischer, and Marcelino Botin to corner the market. Plus whatever brain trusts they want to bring along, their software systems and expertise included. 

 

Maybe they were thinking Perini Navi people and making a deal.

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2 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

But knows what the rich club and community there wants to see and do. 

You think you know what the rich community there wants to see?

Strikes me that the first thing they'd like to see is a win, something it seems us American sailors have forgotten how to do.

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3 minutes ago, InDecentSea2047 said:

You think you know what the rich community there wants to see?

Strikes me that the first thing they'd like to see is a win, something it seems us American sailors have forgotten how to do.

Well winning? Sure. Especially from the afterguard area on their race boat. And their well heeled colleagues would love to get a ride during practices, round robins, etc. Remember that got nixed for the AC75s? And owners haven't raced even as ballast since 2010.

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14 minutes ago, InDecentSea2047 said:

Is it me or did it seem that all NYYC's talk about bringing the cup back to big displacement hulls off the coast of Newport not bode well for the magician's chances from the beginning?

Anyone that wants to bring it back to those boats clearly doesn't understand the new boats enough to win.

Please, get the context correctly if you are going to make such conclusions.  

NYYC and about 30 other yacht clubs around the world (including the other teams in this round of the AC) had some discussions about the future of the Americas Cup.  As expected, there is some concern about participation and what would be some options for the future direction of the AC.  These discussions had nothing to do with the current American Magic team and none of the team members were involved in the discussions.  I think NYYC, and others, did express some interest in having the hull back in the water.

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2 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

Please, get the context correctly if you are going to make such conclusions.  

NYYC and about 30 other yacht clubs around the world (including the other teams in this round of the AC) had some discussions about the future of the Americas Cup.  As expected, there is some concern about participation and what would be some options for the future direction of the AC.  These discussions had nothing to do with the current American Magic team and none of the team members were involved in the discussions.  I think NYYC, and others, did express some interest in having the hull back in the water.

Seems to me the America's cup has always been a pissing contest between billionaires never felt like participation was much of a consideration.

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1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

Please, get the context correctly if you are going to make such conclusions.  

NYYC and about 30 other yacht clubs around the world (including the other teams in this round of the AC) had some discussions about the future of the Americas Cup.  As expected, there is some concern about participation and what would be some options for the future direction of the AC.  These discussions had nothing to do with the current American Magic team and none of the team members were involved in the discussions.  I think NYYC, and others, did express some interest in having the hull back in the water.

At present the only yacht club that has any say is the RNZYS and in reality very little say at that. 

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4 hours ago, underperformer said:

I couldn't shake the image of the "floppy" FCS from my mind and I just watched the footage again. Could it be that AM used some kind of suspension, so as to isolate the boat from the movements of the foil ? Would be a great solution but power hungry I think?

Only if using the hydraulic cylinders as shock absorbers..

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16 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

Please, get the context correctly if you are going to make such conclusions.  

NYYC and about 30 other yacht clubs around the world (including the other teams in this round of the AC) had some discussions about the future of the Americas Cup.  As expected, there is some concern about participation and what would be some options for the future direction of the AC.  These discussions had nothing to do with the current American Magic team and none of the team members were involved in the discussions.  I think NYYC, and others, did express some interest in having the hull back in the water.

As you probably know, NYYC flags were very clear about wanting to put the cup back in the water.  From a purely domestic standpoint, the motivation could be participation.  However, in light of the fact that we are not dedicated to producing top foiling athletes - the call take the Cup back in time also looks like bending the competition to US capabilities.  The desire to avoid foiling seems to have influenced the AM leadership to the point that they undervalued having great foilers as test pilots during development and during competition.  Regardless of the direction of this one events, I’d love to see the US more committed to developing foiling athletes who can hold up our end on the international stage.

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1 hour ago, underperformer said:

Yes that is what I mean, could it be? Have a l ook at some footage. But I realize that it cannot be automated like in a car so it has to be manual (not likely) or mechanic

Possible, but improbable. What's more probable is that the damage compromised the hull contiguous integrity which could not be restored by the repairs, so the hull flexed under load.

The arms are 1-design: if AM's flexed, everyone else's would have too. The arm connection to the drum is rock-solid mechanical, so no room for movement there. The drum is connected to a pair of hydraulic cylinder pistons 80-mm diameter - no flexing there either. Using the hydro cylinder as shock-absorbers? At the frequency the arms were flexing, hydraulic seals not designed for regenerative back pressure would have leaked like trump's white house.

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11 hours ago, cbulger said:

As you probably know, NYYC flags were very clear about wanting to put the cup back in the water.  From a purely domestic standpoint, the motivation could be participation.  However, in light of the fact that we are not dedicated to producing top foiling athletes - the call take the Cup back in time also looks like bending the competition to US capabilities.  The desire to avoid foiling seems to have influenced the AM leadership to the point that they undervalued having great foilers as test pilots during development and during competition.  Regardless of the direction of this one events, I’d love to see the US more committed to developing foiling athletes who can hold up our end on the international stage.

I’m also of the opinion that many of the top people at NYYC are traditionalist. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing,  diversity of opinion is the hallmark of a free society. 

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12 hours ago, mako23 said:

I’m also of the opinion that many of the top people at NYYC are traditionalist. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing,  diversity of opinion is the hallmark of a free society. 

Fair enough, but “traditionalist” like “conservative” has become a vague term.  Pretty sure the tradition of the Cup has been to always use the latest technology and put design innovation ahead of broad-based competition.  I’m not a perfect Cup historian, but I cant think of a single time the defender decided to move backwards on the technology curve.

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47 minutes ago, cbulger said:

I cant think of a single time the defender decided to move backwards on the technology curve.

Depends upon you definition of backwards technology I guess. Some could argue that the move from completely open to Js or Js to 12m's was backward. If you have a new displacement boat made out of some new material is that a backward step technologically speaking?

Though I hope they don't go back from mono foilers

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We have seen boats scaled down - the move to 12’s and the move to 50 foot cats - but not really a move backwards from a tech standpoint.  

Technology can describe the sailors as well as the boats.  As KR pointed out in the broadcast - along with speed, foiling has brought a requirement for a new level of athleticism.  The advancement of almost all sports has been defined by new heights of athleticism.  This has been embraced in our sport by the top sailing nations.  While not exactly “technology”. - putting the AC back in keel boats sailed by people in seated position feels like go backwards or at least moving the AC away from the top of the sport.

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On 2/3/2021 at 4:10 PM, sailfly said:

Steel is a better option than carbon fiber if volume/thickness is a constraint, like in a rudder. CFRP has a better stiffness to weight ratio but per unit of thickness/volume it is around 1/5 as stiff as steel. 

1/5? For quasi isotropic woven perhaps , not for high modulus unidirectional! Accept that you can't make a rudder and stock entirely from HM uni mind

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23 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Since they lost, who cares. 

 

Rudy is coming down to contest the results of the American Magic campaign. 

Image result for mad rudy

Is he bringing Release-the-Kraken Powell with him? They'll need to start earning some big $$$ to settle with Dominion.

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