Team NYYC

[NeedAClew 1,786]

1 hour ago, cbulger said:

Listening to the podcast I didn't hear TH own many bad decisions.  "If you have a criticism, then you just don't have the facts" was his POV. This is the SOP for guys who are trained to convince "owners" to spend.  

Most revealing were TH's comments on how surprised he was after the Christmas regatta that TNZ were constantly developing new modes of sailing.  For ever and ever in sailing - the magic of being great in any boat is understanding it so well you can develop modes and shift gears faster than the competition.  TNZ's afterguard have foiling resumes that dwarf the AM sailing team.  Dalton knew what he was doing when handed the boat to GA,PB and BT.  They used this superior experience to "surprise" the fleet in Bermuda with new modes on the AC50.  

Why, 4 years after Bermuda, was TH surprised that a team with way more foiling experience and skills were developing new better sailing modes faster than AM?  Could it be that acknolwledging this simple fact would require that changing the afterguard?

Surprised TNZ was developing new modes of sailing? If there was no Herbie, that's how OTAUS won in 2013. 

[dogwatch 1,311]

On 5/12/2021 at 7:31 AM, Rennmaus said:

I remember that the "Royal" is a name of hono(u)r given by the King or Queen and signaling official recognition = patent/license. I may be wrong tho. 

This is the modern process https://www.royal.uk/sites/default/files/media/guidance_applications_for_the_title_royal.pdf

 

The protected Royal titles are sparingly granted and strict standards are applied. As a matter dealt with under the Royal Prerogative, information about any criteria which may exist and the reasons for the grant or refusal of an application are not disclosed. The grant of the titles is not, and never has been, a right which can be claimed by a body fulfilling certain conditions

"Royal Prerogative" may confuse the unwary. It does not mean the Monarch is involved, it means it is in the gift of the executive branch of the UK government, without reference to Parliament.

 

[dogwatch 1,311]

On 5/11/2021 at 8:02 PM, porthos said:

I know RYS has challenged for the cup many times under the Deed, and as far as I know nobody then questioned whether RYS was a recognized yacht club. So I assume RYS is recognized at least as much as the Deed requires. The name "Royal" may denote that recognition, but I certainly can't confirm that. 

What I do know is that "incorporation" has a specific legal meaning that I assume means the same thing in the UK that it means where I practice, which is to say the government has recognized the entity as a specific corporate form and there are certain filing requirements associated with it. 

There are plenty of coastal UK clubs that aren't "Royal" but fulfil the criteria to challenge. Unlikely to happen though. The only clubs to challenge in recent history have been the Royal Thames and RYS.

Your 2nd paragraph on incorporation also describes the situation in the UK.

The officers and members of an unincorporated club are potentially liable for its debts. Hence spinning off a "company limited by guarantee" is a bit of a no-brainer if you wish to play in the litigious world of the AC. That is roughly the equivalent of a "not for profit" organisation elsewhere. 

[JonRowe 959]

@dogwatch several of us have tried to explain this to the Americans 

[porthos 390]

1 hour ago, JonRowe said:

@dogwatch several of us have tried to explain this to the Americans 

This American certainly appreciates it.

[Svanen 385]

RYS and Royal Thames are both NYYC full reciprocals, as well as regular competitors in the NYYC Invitational Cup and similar international regattas. The New Yorkers are well-acquainted with both clubs, and entirely aware of the RYS Ltd. situation.

On 5/13/2021 at 3:20 AM, shebeen said:

the latest season of Shirley Robertson podcast kicks off with a 2part Terry Hutchinson

The Scottish bimbo and the American bozo. Yep, listening to their drivel would be time well spent. 

[Indio 960]

On 5/12/2021 at 12:05 AM, porthos said:

Yeah, but I will say it's a bit like Schrodinger's Club -- it's two clubs and one club at the same time. They are legally separate. RYS remains an unincorporated association and RYS Ltd. is very much incorporated. I'm quite certain the members would like a court to get distracted by the "Ltd." should any liability arise.

At the same time, the members of both clubs are identical -- if you are a member of one,  you are a member of another. If you no longer are a member of RYS, you cannot be a member of RYS Ltd. RYS Ltd. holds its regatta using RYS's facilities, and the members sailing in the regatta are simultaneously members of RYS and RYS Ltd.

A "Limited" designation in many Commonwealth jurisdictions simply insulates the business owners, shareholders from the debts of the Limited entity/company (owners/shareholders may be liable under other legislation for reckless trading, etc).

Many sports clubs in NZ are Incorporated Societies which provide tax and other compliance reporting advantages not available to Limited companies. The downside is the members of an Incorporated society do not benefit from the disposal of their assets if they choose to close shop.

Many golf clubs trade through Limited entities in the same name of the Clubs, which is a simple instrument for the members to safeguard their assets by leaving them in the Incorporated society entity who then takes the entire shareholding in the trading Limited liability entity.

I suspect a similar rationale is at play with RYS...

[Mozzy Sails 953]

On 5/13/2021 at 8:20 AM, shebeen said:

not sure if mentioned here yet, but the latest season of Shirley Robertson podcast kicks off with a 2part Terry Hutchinson

https://www.buzzsprout.com/364820/8490165-season-3-ep1-terry-hutchinson-part1?client_source=small_player&iframe=true&referrer=https://www.buzzsprout.com/364820.js?player=small

Part 2 is all about AC36 from the AM perspective

I thought this was a good listen. I must say I found part 1 a little bit better, as the AC stuff was kind of an odd timing: too late in that pretty much all that was said had been said before, but also too early in that I don't think TH yet had the perspective that 6 months or so would give. He still came across as being in 'battle mentality'. 

He was still quite defensive about their on board set up. It might even by myself who he calls out as critic who haven't' been on the boats so can't know. But... all four teams had different set ups, so clearly there is disagreement with how to resource to the task aboard and I think he's a little dismissive of Shirley's question about it. 

Then he says how grinding wasn't too much of a distraction as most the strategy is done before the race and goody and dean can tackle the on the fly aspects. But if that's true, then it just raises the question even further, why have a 50+ on a pedestal if the large part of his input is pre race? 

Shirley get's good interviews because she's on good terms with so many top sailors and well respected. So you do get sailors opening up a little more to her. But on this point, I think she could have pressed a little more. But, maybe it was just too soon? I think I would have liked to ask TH about the Vasco Vascotto and Max Sirena role's and compare what they were able to provide to LR from off the boat (both younger than TH). 

The grinders who did get involved with elements or strategy / tactics on other teams had very specific area they were to keep watch over during the race, like Maloney and Junior (who relayed relative to the other boat, when the opponent was off their quarter and same for Gilo who looked aft on LR. And... these are all huge chaps who will be putting out wattage close to the specialist grinders. 

I do wonder, if TH had known if Magic was going to be a multi-cycle challenge, he might have gone for more youth, and stepped aside to blood a new generation. But perhaps with funding only agreed for one cup it was a little to easy to make decision to stick himself and dean on the boat. 

Anyway, just my 2 cents. But I am just a hater who has never sailed an AC75. 

[Mozzy Sails 953]

Also... are NYYC losing their greatest asset?

https://sailgp.com/news/paul-goodison-joins-great-britain-italy-sail-grand-prix/?fbclid=IwAR1j_hY7Yi_n6GD91Ho9DPhS-Vi15Q2su-Nn7xF1Wf-kGxbF-oUpZhzSQHs

[shebeen 467]

26 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said:

I thought this was a good listen. I must say I found part 1 a little bit better, as the AC stuff was kind of an odd timing: too late in that pretty much all that was said had been said before, but also too early in that I don't think TH yet had the perspective that 6 months or so would give. He still came across as being in 'battle mentality'. 

He was still quite defensive about their on board set up. It might even by myself who he calls out as critic who haven't' been on the boats so can't know. But... all four teams had different set ups, so clearly there is disagreement with how to resource to the task aboard and I think he's a little dismissive of Shirley's question about it. 

Then he says how grinding wasn't too much of a distraction as most the strategy is done before the race and goody and dean can tackle the on the fly aspects. But if that's true, then it just raises the question even further, why have a 50+ on a pedestal if the large part of his input is pre race? 

Shirley get's good interviews because she's on good terms with so many top sailors and well respected. So you do get sailors opening up a little more to her. But on this point, I think she could have pressed a little more. But, maybe it was just too soon? I think I would have liked to ask TH about the Vasco Vascotto and Max Sirena role's and compare what they were able to provide to LR from off the boat (both younger than TH). 

The grinders who did get involved with elements or strategy / tactics on other teams had very specific area they were to keep watch over during the race, like Maloney and Junior (who relayed relative to the other boat, when the opponent was off their quarter and same for Gilo who looked aft on LR. And... these are all huge chaps who will be putting out wattage close to the specialist grinders. 

I do wonder, if TH had known if Magic was going to be a multi-cycle challenge, he might have gone for more youth, and stepped aside to blood a new generation. But perhaps with funding only agreed for one cup it was a little to easy to make decision to stick himself and dean on the boat. 

Anyway, just my 2 cents. But I am just a hater who has never sailed an AC75. 

I think you've summed it up well. I think the only reason why this podcast came out now was just fatigue from Shirley's side and waiting to launch a new "season".

i don't think we'll see teams in the next cycle having a TH type grinder, and I would be very surprised if they stick with it. if he is going to stay on the boat then he'll need to be actual afterguard. Dalts doesn't jump on anymore and then it was easier to hide in SF on the AC75.

[shebeen 467]

29 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said:

Also... are NYYC losing their greatest asset?

https://sailgp.com/news/paul-goodison-joins-great-britain-italy-sail-grand-prix/?fbclid=IwAR1j_hY7Yi_n6GD91Ho9DPhS-Vi15Q2su-Nn7xF1Wf-kGxbF-oUpZhzSQHs

if they had half a brain they would have signed him up already for the next cycle. if this nationality rule comes in he is EASILY the best guy to drive their boat.

I wonder if anyone ever did say to him, "Goodie, sorry but we should have listened to you."

[dg_sailingfan 79]

6 hours ago, Mozzy Sails said:

Also... are NYYC losing their greatest asset?

https://sailgp.com/news/paul-goodison-joins-great-britain-italy-sail-grand-prix/?fbclid=IwAR1j_hY7Yi_n6GD91Ho9DPhS-Vi15Q2su-Nn7xF1Wf-kGxbF-oUpZhzSQHs

If this new Nationality Rule comes into effect Goodison may very well sign up with the Brits. He lives in Italy. Much easier to sign up with a British Challenger than go across the pond again.

The NYYC may have already pissed off Barker & Goodison with their frivolous & premature AC37 Challenge & Protocol.

[barfy 1,302]

^^ nope

[Horn Rock 1,712]

On 5/13/2021 at 5:20 PM, shebeen said:

Part 2 is all about AC36 from the AM perspective

TH was surprised how much the other teams - especially ETNZ - used their simulators to drive the design process. Seems they were a little caught out in this respect. 

[Svanen 385]

On 5/11/2021 at 7:58 AM, porthos said:

Jim's rank and station

The UK honours system is incredibly broken.

If someone receives a low-level award such as the Queen’s Commendation for Bravery, the Gazette will publish a lengthy citation specifying exactly what they did to earn it: see example. But knighthoods require only terse, meaningless citations that communicate nothing.

in Jim’s case, he was created a Knight Bachelor for “Services to Business and to Investment”: i.e., feathering his own nest.

 

[Chobani Sailor 195]

On 5/19/2021 at 11:01 AM, dg_sailingfan said:

If this new Nationality Rule comes into effect Goodison may very well sign up with the Brits. He lives in Italy. Much easier to sign up with a British Challenger than go across the pond again.

The NYYC may have already pissed off Barker & Goodison with their frivolous & premature AC37 Challenge & Protocol.

While Barker is probably off the boat, one would assume that Goodison would take one of the duel helmsman roles for American Magic.  Goodison can only sail for Ineos or American Magic so he doesn't have many options

[Chobani Sailor 195]

On 5/21/2021 at 4:28 AM, Horn Rock said:

TH was surprised how much the other teams - especially ETNZ - used their simulators to drive the design process. Seems they were a little caught out in this respect. 

Remember when American Magic capsized?  When the production team was working non-stop rebuilding the boat, the sailing team sailed little dinghies around the RNZYS and shopping at Barkers for a team building activities instead of getting in the simulator and practicing their starts.  Either their egos were too large or they had no simulator   

[IPLore 1,116]

1 minute ago, Chobani Sailor said:

While Barker is probably off the boat, one would assume that Goodison would take one of the duel helmsman roles for American Magic.  Goodison can only sail for Ineos or American Magic so he doesn't have many options

He can sail for UK, possibly USA(not sure how long he resided in US but quite possible he was there for long enough) .......and maybe Italy???? more choices than most.

[JonRowe 959]

37 minutes ago, IPLore said:

He can sail for UK, possibly USA(not sure how long he resided in US but quite possible he was there for long enough) .......and maybe Italy???? more choices than most.

He can sail for American Magic as he was a part of the American Magic team in Auckland. Thats specifically provisioned for in the new rules as they've revealed so far. Italy or another USA team would require him to have had the passport at the end of the Auckland match too.

[Horn Rock 1,712]

6 hours ago, Chobani Sailor said:

Either their egos were too large or they had no simulator   

Or their simulator wasn't very good? Sounds like in their debrief they identified that as one of their weaknesses. 

With regard to simulators, I get the impression ETNZ still have an edge in this area - incorporating AI etc.....It is something that will require continual development. At a guess, the Ineos simulator was still a bit behind LR/ENTZ - simply because they were less sorted overall - boat/foils.....That said, they have the backing to ramp that up, and I'm sure it's an area that they will resource.

 New teams entering the cup will likely be at a disadvantage, lacking the simulator IP that top teams have today. Does Alinghi have sim tech? I think Artemis does?

[JonRowe 959]

7 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

I think Artemis does?

Artemis built / owns the SailGP simulator, and has been involved in high tech design since the cup, they'd be a prime candidate to approach to bootstrap your own.

[Terry Hollis 440]

2 hours ago, JonRowe said:

Artemis built / owns the SailGP simulator, and has been involved in high tech design since the cup, they'd be a prime candidate to approach to bootstrap your own.

A key part of the development for a simulator is to verify it's accuracy with feed back from the boats while sailing, I think ETNZ had two people in the chase boats at all times just collecting data for the simulator.

Artemis probably has good data for the GP50's but that would be worthless when simulating an AC75.

In addition ETNZ had a highly developed AI system that could sail the simulator better than the sailors so that speed up development a lot.

[JonRowe 959]

49 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

A key part of the development for a simulator is to verify it's accuracy with feed back from the boats while sailing, I think ETNZ had two people in the chase boats at all times just collecting data for the simulator.

Artemis probably has good data for the GP50's but that would be worthless when simulating an AC75.

Another key part is having the tooling and talent in place to build a model in the first place, when I said "bootstrap" I mean they would be a good place to start, they already have proven experienced and know what they're doing. It wouldn't be off the shelf I agree with you there.

[Forourselves 1,690]

 

[Forourselves 1,690]

 

[crashtack 334]

New B-roll from the AC media team, guess some of them still have jobs

[NeedAClew 1,786]

God, next thing they will have union.  Permanent jobs.  What a crock. 

Win or look for another job might be more motivating than well, lose and 4 more years....

[IPLore 1,116]

On 5/26/2021 at 5:41 PM, JonRowe said:

He can sail for American Magic as he was a part of the American Magic team in Auckland. Thats specifically provisioned for in the new rules as they've revealed so far. Italy or another USA team would require him to have had the passport at the end of the Auckland match too.

Goodison can sail for an Italian team because he lives in Italy and has resided there for sufficient time prior to last cup

He can sail for AM as you point out.

He can sail for a UK team because he is a UK citizen and passport holder.

 

He is a solid and experienced talent.   I dont know who would recruit him Currently he is making some of his living in sail gp

[JonRowe 959]

6 hours ago, IPLore said:

Goodison can sail for an Italian team because he lives in Italy and has resided there for sufficient time prior to last cup

If he has the passport he can, thats the wording the proposed words used, residing is not enough, passport means you have to have citizenship. He may of course have one, I don't know that he doesn't, I was merely pointing out the situation.

[The_Alchemist 1,425]

8 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

God, next thing they will have union.  Permanent jobs.  What a crock. 

Win or look for another job might be more motivating than well, lose and 4 more years....

So that is you response to trying to keep some continuity for a future campaign?  Not everything is a fckg handout, get a life.....

[NeedAClew 1,786]

Maintaining full-scale continuity and choosing to bid out a defense venue? I don't like it.  

[Stingray~ 2,262]

58 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Maintaining full-scale continuity and choosing to bid out a defense venue? I don't like it.  

What facets of the AC do you actually like and enjoy following? 

[NeedAClew 1,786]

The technology of the boats. The racing.  Some of the sailors.

 

[Stingray~ 2,262]

Contains comments from TH

America's Cup poaching season is in full swing, with better funded teams out headhunting (sail-world.com)

[NeedAClew 1,786]

Ought to try a DoG fight those distances would be interesting. 

[Forourselves 1,690]

3 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Contains comments from TH

America's Cup poaching season is in full swing, with better funded teams out headhunting (sail-world.com)

I’m wondering why AM hasn’t gone home and restarted their program? DeVos is a billionaire, he has two (or at least one) fully functional AC75, they know the class is going to continue so why not pack up, go home, get Patriot back on the water in Newport and get it back out sailing making improvements? It would certainly keep his team together, it’d keep the design team busy, and keep the sailing team focused. It seems like LR is going to do just that. 

[NeedAClew 1,786]

Maybe he or the others are tired of it and TH is trying to do a GD?

[porthos 390]

2 hours ago, Forourselves said:

I’m wondering why AM hasn’t gone home and restarted their program? DeVos is a billionaire, he has two (or at least one) fully functional AC75, they know the class is going to continue so why not pack up, go home, get Patriot back on the water in Newport and get it back out sailing making improvements? It would certainly keep his team together, it’d keep the design team busy, and keep the sailing team focused. It seems like LR is going to do just that. 

Might be waiting to see if they are even invited to participate. There are a lot of rumors swirling around AC37 and not a lot of facts. One of those rumors is that there will be a 1v1 race between TNZ and INEOS for AC37.  Hard to do much of anything until the ground settles.

[atwinda 201]

2 hours ago, Forourselves said:

I’m wondering why AM hasn’t gone home and restarted their program? DeVos is a billionaire, he has two (or at least one) fully functional AC75, they know the class is going to continue so why not pack up, go home, get Patriot back on the water in Newport and get it back out sailing making improvements? It would certainly keep his team together, it’d keep the design team busy, and keep the sailing team focused. It seems like LR is going to do just that. 

Who's to say that the AM designers aren't already updating their AC75 tooling, and testing new hull and foil configurations? When they get the green light to build, they'll be down the track on the design side. Just cause you don't see TH ripping around on an AC75 in Newport or FL, doesn't mean things aren't happening.

[chesirecat 713]

1 hour ago, porthos said:

Might be waiting to see if they are even invited to participate. There are a lot of rumors swirling around AC37 and not a lot of facts. One of those rumors is that there will be a 1v1 race between TNZ and INEOS for AC37.  Hard to do much of anything until the ground settles.

Thats a no go according to Ben A. No time to build the new boats.

[Stingray~ 2,262]

2 hours ago, chesirecat said:

Thats a no go according to Ben A. No time to build the new boats.

? Where did Ben A say that please? 

[Forourselves 1,690]

4 hours ago, atwinda said:

Who's to say that the AM designers aren't already updating their AC75 tooling, and testing new hull and foil configurations? When they get the green light to build, they'll be down the track on the design side. Just cause you don't see TH ripping around on an AC75 in Newport or FL, doesn't mean things aren't happening.

Sounds like they're just trying to keep their team together going by what TH was saying.

[chesirecat 713]

5 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

? Where did Ben A say that please? 

Article in The Times. 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ainslie-may-get-chance-to-fight-for-americas-cup-in-home-waters-gn25tc23p

 

"The word now is that that option — always regarded by sources close to Ainslie as “left-field” — is no longer being discussed partly because time is running out to build new boats and partly because it will exclude other challengers. However, the idea of the Solent as a venue for a multi-challenger defence by TNZ in 2023 or 2024 is still on the table."

[porthos 390]

2 hours ago, chesirecat said:

Article in The Times. 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ainslie-may-get-chance-to-fight-for-americas-cup-in-home-waters-gn25tc23p

 

"The word now is that that option — always regarded by sources close to Ainslie as “left-field” — is no longer being discussed partly because time is running out to build new boats and partly because it will exclude other challengers. However, the idea of the Solent as a venue for a multi-challenger defence by TNZ in 2023 or 2024 is still on the table."

That's not a quote from Ben or even hearsay from Ben. In fact, you can't even tell from that quote who allegedly thinks that.

Still, I hope it's true.

[Jethrow 408]

 

2 hours ago, chesirecat said:

... partly because time is running out to build new boats and partly because it will exclude other challengers. However, the idea of the Solent as a venue for a multi-challenger defence by TNZ in 2023 or 2024 is still on the table."

but correct me if I'm wrong, but due to the deed provisions everyone else can use their current boat for the match except Italy, 'cause they were the loosing boat in the previous match? or is that MC'able?

I would think they'd be very upset about being excluded if others were invited!

[IPLore 1,116]

The large first step for America Magic will be to review their management structure and start to identify the key OTW personnel. Wherever the location and whenever the date of the next AC.......American Magic does not have a strong helm/tactician combination lined up. Dean Barker will not be helm again and I think we learnt that Terry cannot be both team CEO/Manager and on board tactician.

Not knowing the precise nationality rules makes it harder but without a credible sailing team, its going to be hard to organize the challenge.

Who are the candidates?

Jimmy Spithill passes the nationality requirements and has extensive AC75 experience. He is representing USA at Sail GP and is unlucky not to be among the leaders (taken out by Japan in round 1 and taken out by a broken rudder when close to winning round 2)  But he aint getting any younger.

who is in line after Jimmy??  

[porthos 390]

12 minutes ago, Jethrow said:

 

but correct me if I'm wrong, but due to the deed provisions everyone else can use their current boat for the match except Italy, 'cause they were the loosing boat in the previous match? or is that MC'able?

I would think they'd be very upset about being excluded if others were invited!

Here's the language of the Deed:

"No vessel which has been defeated in a match for this Cup can be again selected by any
Club as its representative until after a contest for it by some other vessel has intervened,
or until after the expiration of two years from the time of such defeat."

I would imagine AC37 is at least a couple of years away such that LRPP could use the same boat. Certainly one question that hasn't been tested or litigated is when is a "vessel" the same "vessel"? How much do you have to change to make it different enough to be considered different? 

I would not expect a court to find that the prohibition on using the same vessel less than two years after being defeated can be waived via mutual consent.  The MC provisions apply to the conditions of the match and do not call out this provision as being waivable.

[NZK 584]

Heard from someone who had been with AM for the Cup that there was a lot of un-explored potential that never made it to the surface due to differences of opinions and approach between various members (much to the frustration of the rest of the team). It seems like the 2 most homogenous teams, LRPP and ETNZ, were the ones that ended up shining whilst INEOS and AM both suffered from internal drama. I think the Italians probably had to work harder at creating the internal structure than maybe ETNZ did but that just shows what good leadership and longevity can do for a team... 

[NeedAClew 1,786]

Better line up Slingsby.  Tell him the team can wear green and gold.

[shanghaisailor 1,757]

57 minutes ago, porthos said:

Here's the language of the Deed:

"No vessel which has been defeated in a match for this Cup can be again selected by any
Club as its representative until after a contest for it by some other vessel has intervened,
or until after the expiration of two years from the time of such defeat."

I would imagine AC37 is at least a couple of years away such that LRPP could use the same boat. Certainly one question that hasn't been tested or litigated is when is a "vessel" the same "vessel"? How much do you have to change to make it different enough to be considered different? 

I would not expect a court to find that the prohibition on using the same vessel less than two years after being defeated can be waived via mutual consent.  The MC provisions apply to the conditions of the match and do not call out this provision as being waivable.

Interesting point but as next cup is not likely to be until 2024 (unless ETNZ & INEOS go head to head as rumoured - just rumoured) then it is pretty much moot. I suppose lawyers after a nice payday could make arguments in any direction regarding what is a new vessel or a modified 'old' vessel.

Perhaps the second part of that paragraph has more strength in that it states that when a challenge has been received  that satisfies this instrument (the Deed of Gift) to other challenge can be considered meaning multiple challenges of the past were not DoG compliant) Or maybe that's not what it means. I suppose this dubiety is why lawyers are such an important part of an America's Cup team :-)

[chesirecat 713]

8 hours ago, porthos said:

That's not a quote from Ben or even hearsay from Ben. In fact, you can't even tell from that quote who allegedly thinks that.

Still, I hope it's true.

This may clarify things.

https://youtu.be/dCrnmya0xFw

[chesirecat 713]

8 hours ago, NZK said:

Heard from someone who had been with AM for the Cup that there was a lot of un-explored potential that never made it to the surface due to differences of opinions and approach between various members (much to the frustration of the rest of the team). It seems like the 2 most homogenous teams, LRPP and ETNZ, were the ones that ended up shining whilst INEOS and AM both suffered from internal drama. I think the Italians probably had to work harder at creating the internal structure than maybe ETNZ did but that just shows what good leadership and longevity can do for a team... 

Ratcliffe made a point of identifying such issues to the crew onboard their boat, immediately after their last race. . He's probably well and truly dealt with it. It shows the advantages of AC experience.

[cbulger 164]

After Grant and Max, are there any other top flight CEO’s out there.

TH has no foiling development resume and showed a fatal flaw in talent selection - the most important skill for a CEO.  Being committed to Quantum also an issue.  He’s the man for a TP52 campaign, but the AC was too much.

Ben has some killer driving chops, although he isn’t getting any younger. He is also an excellent fund raiser - and no cash no splash.  But his strength may also be his fatal flaw - he wants to be the celebrity - tough to really lead the whole program while sailing, entertaining the money and posing for the cameras.

Where’s the next CEO capable of running a successful +$100 million campaign?

For 25 years the AC winning CEO has been a Kiwi, is that culture just better at leading this type of project?

[dogwatch 1,311]

1 hour ago, cbulger said:

Ben has some killer driving chops, although he isn’t getting any younger. He is also an excellent fund raiser - and no cash no splash.  But his strength may also be his fatal flaw - he wants to be the celebrity

Does he? Maybe, maybe not; it's mandatory for the money-raising and sponsor-value parts of his role whether he wants it or not. Media want interviews with people they've heard of, which can only mean BA or Ratcliffe.

[Horn Rock 1,712]

On 7/4/2021 at 1:29 AM, cbulger said:

For 25 years the AC winning CEO has been a Kiwi, is that culture just better at leading this type of project?

The results would suggest yes.

[JALhazmat 1,612]

vs how many years prior?

 

[Stingray~ 2,262]

THutch says at around 16:15 that Patriot hit 54.7 knots in 27 knots of breeze. 
 

 

[cbulger 164]

On 7/3/2021 at 1:19 PM, dogwatch said:

Does he? Maybe, maybe not; it's mandatory for the money-raising and sponsor-value parts of his role whether he wants it or not. Media want interviews with people they've heard of, which can only mean BA or Ratcliffe.

The fact that his team was called "Ben Ainslie Racing" is a kinda clue.  

[Chobani Sailor 195]

14 minutes ago, cbulger said:

The fact that his team was called "Ben Ainslie Racing" is a kinda clue.  

The quote from TH about his design team being poached maybe more about his design team not wanting to work with him and AM anymore.  After a festive 4th of July holiday, rumors are swirling at the club that there may be a small rift forming between the AM leadership and the leaders of the NYYC over who should be running AM for the next campaign.  Ego and ignorance may put both sides on the sideline for AC37.  Keep your eye on ebay for an AC75 for sale   

[dogwatch 1,311]

12 hours ago, cbulger said:

The fact that his team was called "Ben Ainslie Racing" is a kinda clue.  

No it isn't. Name recognition in the pursuit of sponsor funding. There are two sailors in the UK whose name everyone recognises even if they have never set foot on a boat and he is one of them.

[NZK 584]

19 hours ago, Chobani Sailor said:

The quote from TH about his design team being poached maybe more about his design team not wanting to work with him and AM anymore.  After a festive 4th of July holiday, rumors are swirling at the club that there may be a small rift forming between the AM leadership and the leaders of the NYYC over who should be running AM for the next campaign.  Ego and ignorance may put both sides on the sideline for AC37.  Keep your eye on ebay for an AC75 for sale   

Loosing TH would probably be the quickest way to retain all the other shore crew and sailors

[atwinda 201]

4 hours ago, NZK said:

Loosing TH would probably be the quickest way to retain all the other shore crew and sailors

Loosing TH is also the quickest way to loose Hap and Devos. My guess is TH will be taking on more of a non-sailing role, and dean will either be off the boat coaching their next helm, or hang up his hat. As far as the next helm is concerned- "local" talent is slim pick-ins.

[Horn Rock 1,712]

On 7/8/2021 at 4:09 PM, dogwatch said:

There are two sailors in the UK whose name everyone recognises even if they have never set foot on a boat and he is one of them.

Who is the other one? Sir Robin?

[nroose 278]

59 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Who is the other one? Sir Robin?

I was thinking Ellen MacArthur, but I guess Sir Robin is another possibility.

[Horn Rock 1,712]

7 minutes ago, nroose said:

Ellen MacArthur

I had to google her......

[dogwatch 1,311]

3 hours ago, nroose said:

I was thinking Ellen MacArthur

That is the correct answer. She received a lot of prime-channel TV exposure for a while. I met her briefly early in her career and as well as being a world-class sailor, she had the ability to project an appealing girl-next-door personality that later transferred to TV.

[barfy 1,302]

4 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

I had to google her......

Awww, cruel

[NeedAClew 1,786]

Sir Francis Drake and Henry Hudson?

[yoyo 246]

On 7/8/2021 at 11:51 AM, atwinda said:

As far as the next helm is concerned- "local" talent is slim pick-ins.

I would think anyone they put in that spot will be very handsomely paid.  They will also get a ton of hours flying the simulator and a ton of on the water practice while being monitored/coached. 

There are plenty of talented drivers available that could get it done under that scenario.  But - in the end a slow design wont win even with the best driver in the world.

[NeedAClew 1,786]

But would someone without AC experience be chosen? That's been the high hurdle for domestic sailors because of OTAUS.

[yoyo 246]

Flying boats, computers, hydraulics and rules which limit match racing "go for the kill" tactics.  Not sure AC experience is necessary but it certainly doesn't hurt.  The designers and automation will most likely be faster than any human. 

I think one reason we see a lot of the same faces is the "AC good ol boys club" where they keep bringing along their buddies so everyone can stay tapped into the money train of the modern AC.  Similar to most other pro circuits.

[Raptorsailor 313]

On 7/7/2021 at 3:10 AM, Stingray~ said:

THutch says at around 16:15 that Patriot hit 54.7 knots in 27 knots of breeze. 
 

 

some fast shit. They ought to put a couple engines instead of grinders, some aero fairings, go fast stripes and try to beat the speed record.

[Zaal 694]

On 7/7/2021 at 3:10 AM, Stingray~ said:

THutch says at around 16:15 that Patriot hit 54.7 knots in 27 knots of breeze. 
 

 

Just watched this great interview. First of all, hats off (again) to TH. I have an incredible respect for him, both as a sailor and as a human being. 

Secondly, I think that the capsize really messes up in doing an objective analysis of AM campaign. 

AM was the fastest challenger in the Christmas Cup. In the Prada Cup they didn't shine, ok, but honestly I think that they did a better job than Ineos, from a design prospective anyway. 

Ineos messed up in the Christmas Race and in the ACWS, they didn't finish a single race. Than they seemed unbeatable in the first RR of the Prada Cup. That was achieved (I think BA confirmed this in an interview) by putting every single upgrade on the boat, just put everything they got in the bag trying to not get eliminated. This is also confirmed by the fact that when they faced LR in the Finals, LR was a lot faster while UK didn't make any significant change despite having more time. Obviously, and that must be said, BA and GS sailed the boat extremely well in the RR.  On the contrary, I think  AM had some upgrades ready. They were already with the final foils, 5 and 6, and the final rudder, but their speed was impressive (specially in medium breeze), and Checco Bruni stated that they themselves learned a lot about how to sail the boat in stronger winds by watching AM. Their program was not at the end I think, there was room for other improvements. I don't think they could beat LR in her Prada Cup Final settings, but  without capsizing maybe the Prada Cup history would be different. 

 

 

[WetHog 581]

BB said on Shirley Robertson’s podcast that it was pretty evident that AM was the fastest challenger.  ENTZ would have won against AM regardless. 

WetHog  

[33jesus 50]

Well this is interesting. 

[Swimsailor 1,686]

https://mailchi.mp/nyyc/starsstripes_to_join_nyyc_challenge

[Chobani Sailor 195]

Looks like American Magic will be hooking up with another yacht club for the 37th edition and the NYYC and their commodore will be holding the bag of poo.

[NeedAClew 1,786]

So what are the "key components and relationships" that S+S brings to NYYC's syndicate? Canfield, a lots-younger helm? If they had money sources they saved for AC37, LBYC looks even dumber. 

[Chobani Sailor 195]

2 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

So what are the "key components and relationships" that S+S brings to NYYC's syndicate? Canfield, a lots-younger helm? If they had money sources they saved for AC37, LBYC looks even dumber. 

maybe the LBYC has a deal with DeVos, Penske and Fauth to move operations to Long Beach.  LBYC American Magic has a good ring to it. 

[Swimsailor 1,686]

I have a feeling Penske is not interested in funding a circus act, Hap wants to just drive a Maxi72 and Devos maybe sticks around.  NYYC have few options to be a part of AC37.

[NZK 584]

What in the red slack and blue blazer hell is this bullshit? What the fuck do S&S bring to this party, seriously, did we miss something last time? Canfield couldn't even keep a ride on SailGP.

My best guess is one or more of the original AM backers pulled out (pretty sure Hap isn't interested in a second go around) and the S&S boys managed to bring someone else in who can top up the coffers. 

 

[yoyoboy 5]

6 minutes ago, Chobani Sailor said:

maybe the LBYC has a deal with DeVos, Penske and Fauth to move operations to Long Beach.  LBYC American Magic has a good ring to it. 

I think you are all reading the presser wrong. No mention of LBYC. Sounds like  Taylor and Mike are joining AM for the next round.  

Does the DOG even allow for a team to challenge under two burgees? 

[Chobani Sailor 195]

1 minute ago, yoyoboy said:

I think you are all reading the presser wrong. No mention of LBYC. Sounds like  Taylor and Mike are joining AM for the next round.  

Does the DOG even allow for a team to challenge under two burgees? 

There is no mention of Canfield and Buckley joining American Magic.  Otherwise American Magic would have put out a press lease stating that Canfield and Buckley are joining their team.  The NYYC doesn't own American Magic. 

 

[pusslicker 663]

So this looks like AM is out? Down to 2 or maybe 1 challenger now. I guess the 1 on 1 won't look so bad if no one else wants in.

[NeedAClew 1,786]

Presser is from NYYC.

S+S joining NYYC challenge.

"...previous edition with American Magic"

It's AM that's gone into the sunset. NYYC syndicate will be called something else. 

Maybe without the Former Guy ties they can elicit more $$$$ and enthusiasm. Sure S+S was a grift imo but not Former Guy pals AFAIK. So I could support them as my team. Maybe. 

 

[WetHog 581]

Yes this sounds like AM is history and S+S will attempt to fill the void?  Not a positive development for us USA fans.  

Who gets AMs boats and gear?

WetHog  

[IPLore 1,116]

S & S are bringing a lot to the table:

Quote

The legacy of Stars+Stripes’ campaign for the 36th America’s Cup includes numerous key components and relationships that will contribute to a successful Cup campaign.

Their legacy is that they could not get to the starting line. 

Streuli must have really struggled to pen that one.