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17 hours ago, floater said:

idk - maybe PB simply has more class than LE?

Well, PB does have a history that isn't unblemished, or unmarked by petulance.

Sat out a race and shut down his store in San Francisco.  Withdrew in Bermuda.  Raised some stink in Auckland.

Not atypical for a rich guy used to getting his way, or his peers in the AC game, but perhaps not what some would consider classy outside of a relative sense.

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And we have liftoff!!

I for one was happy to finally see an American team that didn’t just reek of assholes. Terry was a great bloke to have in front of the cameras and the intimate videos behind the scenes I found quite f

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3 hours ago, WetHog said:

That is certainly debatable.

WetHog  :ph34r:

I expect you're right - but oh my. the carbon work. and the sails.

yysw308051.jpg

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that spending enormous amounts of money on sail boats = good.

using the cup to make money for yourself = bad.

what would Prada do? Idk, but its clear what they have done. lol.

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1 hour ago, floater said:

I expect you're right - but oh my. the carbon work. and the sails.

yysw308051.jpg

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that spending enormous amounts of money on sail boats = good.

using the cup to make money for yourself = bad.

what would Prada do? Idk, but its clear what they have done. lol.

Their boats have always been beautiful but the crew kit used for AC34 is a black mark.  Anyway, my comment was more aimed at the man himself.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

LR Uniforms.jpg

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2 hours ago, WetHog said:

Their boats have always been beautiful but the crew kit used for AC34 is a black mark.  Anyway, my comment was more aimed at the man himself.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

LR Uniforms.jpg

I can't believe  you didn't like the silver Ninja Turtles outfits.

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On 10/26/2021 at 12:18 PM, Fiji Bitter said:

Conspiracy Spinray again.

Maybe time you take a holiday!

 

Just like that nut bar Tucker C...."not true, but just saying, questions need to be asked"

Twin worm tongue fuck wits

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On 10/22/2021 at 6:27 PM, Chobani Sailor said:

Yes I have a source for this.  It's being worded as not seeking his "second -term" - a kind way of the club saying "you're fired"

I assume he would still be a club member.

Official announcement has gone out to all members. He says that he looks forward to his next journey on the Nominating Committee.

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On 10/30/2021 at 5:50 PM, Svanen said:

Official announcement has gone out to all members. He says that he looks forward to his next journey on the Nominating Committee.

so it's a bog standard yacht club that elects a leader at the AGM like everyone else?

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A beautiful 6th place finish for Canfield in the GC32s this past week.  That is some consistent foiling.

 

https://www.sail-world.com/news/243649/2021-GC32-Mar-Menor-Cup-overall

 

GC32 Mar Menor Cup Overall Results:

 

Pos Team Owner/Helm R1 R2 R3 R4 R5 R6 R7 R8 R9 R10 Pts
1 Alinghi Arnaud Psarofaghis (SUI) 1 3 1 1 3 4 2 1 1 3 20
2 Black Star Sailing Team Christian Zuerrer (SUI) 2 1 2 3 5 2 4 5 2 1 27
3 Red Bull Sailing Team Roman Hagara (AUT) 3 4 4 4 2 1 1 3 4 2 28
4 Zoulou Erik Maris (FRA) 4 2 5 2 4 5 3 2 5 6 38
5 Team Rockwool Racing Nicolas Sehested (DEN) 5 6 3 6 1 3 6 4 3 5 42
6 Argo Taylor Canfield (USVI) 6 5 6 5 6 6 5 6 6 4 55
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1 hour ago, Chobani Sailor said:

A beautiful 6th place finish for Canfield in the GC32s this past week.  That is some consistent foiling.

 

https://www.sail-world.com/news/243649/2021-GC32-Mar-Menor-Cup-overall

 

GC32 Mar Menor Cup Overall Results:

 

Pos Team Owner/Helm R1 R2 R3 R4 R5 R6 R7 R8 R9 R10 Pts
1 Alinghi Arnaud Psarofaghis (SUI) 1 3 1 1 3 4 2 1 1 3 20
2 Black Star Sailing Team Christian Zuerrer (SUI) 2 1 2 3 5 2 4 5 2 1 27
3 Red Bull Sailing Team Roman Hagara (AUT) 3 4 4 4 2 1 1 3 4 2 28
4 Zoulou Erik Maris (FRA) 4 2 5 2 4 5 3 2 5 6 38
5 Team Rockwool Racing Nicolas Sehested (DEN) 5 6 3 6 1 3 6 4 3 5 42
6 Argo Taylor Canfield (USVI) 6 5 6 5 6 6 5 6 6 4 55

I guess he would discard the last race for consistency...

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7 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

I forget, is Canfield on JS’s SGP team? 

I think he's filled-in at some point but isn't a full time member. He got the flick from the starting line-up when JS arrived and changed the roster....

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On 11/9/2021 at 2:04 AM, Stingray~ said:

I forget, is Canfield on JS’s SGP team? 

He was signed as flight controller ahead of sydney, the first event of the aborted season. 

Kirby, Canfield, Dan Morris, Mac Agnese, Hans Henken / Riley Gibbs

became

Spithill, C-J, Kirby, Andrew Campbell, Dressler / Sinclair

Basically, the America's cup boys plus C-J booted out the match racers / Olympic dinghy sailors. 

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6 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

Why do we still have a thread called "Team NYYC"? There isn't and won't be one.

I suppose there's a chance that under a new Comm that AM might renew that relationship. But until they go with (example) Pensacola then... shrug :)

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  • 1 month later...

Maybe, but the fish stinks from the head down - 3 Kiwi CEO's have won every cup for 25 years - Blake, Coutts, Dalton.  They put the best sailors on the boat.  They hired the best forward thinking designers.  And most importantly - starting with Blake, they all recognized the feedback loop between the sailors and the design teams were the critical success factor.  Need a person art the top with skills and whose priority is to win - not someone who must be in the spot light - or must stay on the boat - or who is programmed to entertain the owner/sponsor.

Of course its complicated, but screw up the CEO and you're done.

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2 minutes ago, cbulger said:

 Blake, Coutts, Dalton.  They put the best sailors on the boat.

Dalton broke that rule in SF a little by having himself on board for part of it.

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1 hour ago, Gissie said:

Dalton broke that rule in SF a little by having himself on board for part of it.

Worked so well he took himself off moved up the corporate ladder and bumped Dean.. 

because it was deans fault they built a slower boat 

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Loser's Press Release?

 

“We are extremely excited to continue our quest to regain the America’s Cup with American Magic,” . “Upon receiving the Protocol for the 37th Match, we were pleased to find that it contains elements advocated for by the Club last spring. Oh Puuhlease, don't try and take any credit for the Protocol as an excuse for your on again , off again, on again entry. Thus far RYS and RNYS have done exactly what they said they would do.

 

In addition, the Executive Committee recently received a new proposal from Doug DeVos and Hap Fauth, American Magic principals and Club members, that warranted reconsidering our earlier decision to pause our pursuit of AC37.”

 
The New York Yacht Club created the America’s Cup and successfully defended it 25 times before losing the Cup to Australia II and the Royal Perth Yacht Club in 1983. Yup. That's right boys. 1983! Time to get over it.

After decades of having rules which hugely favored the defender, you showed some ballsy leadership, leveled the playing field, defended the cup successfully with honor 7 times....and then....lost it.....thirty nine years and 13 cups ago!   Most competitive AC foiling sailors were not even born the last time NYYC won the America's Cup.    

You want a winner's mind set?   You got to stop assuming you are an automatic favorite just because you are NYYC and "an important part of the history of the America's Cup". You have got to get that hungry underdog desire to win that propels a team from (lets face it) DFL to first. 

In the years since, the New York Yacht Club has challenged for the trophy four times and lost four times. The most recent challenge, represented by American Magic, ended prematurely when the team was knocked out of the Prada Cup Challenger Selection Series  in Auckland in January of 2021.
 
Discussions regarding the Club’s next challenge started shortly after Emirates Team New Zealand successfully defended the Cup last March. However, due to a lack of clarity regarding the rules, timing and venue for the next Match, the Club decided in October to pause its America’s Cup efforts. Blah blah. You lacked confidence in your selves and your team and vacillated, rather than upped the ante. When winners lose, they get back in the saddle.
 
A renewed mutual desire to have American Magic sail on behalf of the Club and commit to a campaign for at least two consecutive America’s Cup cycles, prompted the Club and team to join forces for the 37th America’s Cup.
 
“While the result in Auckland was not what we had hoped for, skipper Terry Hutchinson and the entire team were tremendous ambassadors for the Club and displayed exemplary sportsmanship throughout the campaign,” says Zabetakis. “The America’s Cup remains the highest peak in sailing and one of the most difficult challenges in the world of sport. The lessons learned during our previous campaign, combined with American Magic’s physical and intellectual assets and a commitment to multiple cycles, will ensure this challenge a strong chance to claim sailing’s ultimate prize.”

While winning remains the primary goal, it’s not the only focal point of the campaign.

And that there is the heart of a loser's press release.

Unless and until, winning is your only goal, you are going to lose.  You are starting off with a loser's mentality.  Every single hire , and every single selection of personnel and equipment needs to reflect the focal goal of winning. If you even start to compromise by hiring "tremendous ambassadors for the Club" or compromise by designing equipment to make your entry "more accessible to corporate partners", Ineos, Prada and even an underfunded ETNZ are going to blow by you to leeward.
 
“The Club’s involvement in AC37 must advance our foundational initiatives, including the development of America’s youth sailing talent and a commitment to increasing diversity within our sport,” says Zabetakis. “We will also continue to push for changes to the structure of the competition that can make the event more accessible to challengers, fans and corporate partners.”
 
The team and the Club eagerly await the announcement within the next few months of the venue and schedule for the 37th America’s Cup Ooooh, you poor things. Are you worried abot the venue?

The winner says "Bring it on! Whenever or where ever , we will be ready for you and we will crush you!"

A college football coach could put together a sailing and design team that could beat these guys.  

This teams needs a leader, a driven captain, not a politically correct kidney disorder specialist.  Guys...really, spread some lighter fuel around.

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"

38 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

 

Unless and until, winning is your only goal, you are going to lose. 

And that's the  game in a nutshell. 

Continually kept in focus.

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8 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

After decades of having rules which hugely favored the defender, you showed some ballsy leadership, leveled the playing field, defended the cup successfully with honor 7 times....and then....lost it.....thirty nine years and 13 cups ago!   Most competitive AC foiling sailors were not even born the last time NYYC won the America's Cup.    

You want a winner's mind set?   You got to stop assuming you are an automatic favorite just because you are NYYC and "an important part of the history of the America's Cup". You have got to get that hungry underdog desire to win that propels a team from (lets face it) DFL to first. 

 

 

Agree. You can note history but you can not rely on it for future success.

I recently had a discussion about a high-end restaurant, family place that is 3 generations old, famous on the US West Coast. During Covid, the brothers launched 22 business models in 12 months to save their place, and keep every staff member  employed. Each business model had 2 weeks to survive or die. 

The mentality they describe is "for the sake of our next generation,  we wake up every morning and have to admit, that if our rear-view mirror is larger than our windshield, our business is dead...." I thought this was a great point of view. With a nudge and a wink, they eluded to the fact a lot of famous traditional steak places on both coasts disappeared during covid because they were betting on the history of the establishment and the aura of a clip on bow-tie to save them vs. moving forward in a new world. 

At some point you need to look at the world differently...

 

(not a Covid post)

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1 hour ago, Norcal said:

So did Blake.

Blake was aboard and Dennis was a successful sailing CEO as well - but that was back when sailors didn’t need to be athletes and the design process was over when the boats were launched..

Dalts was aboard in SF and was out$marted by a better Kiwi CEO who stayed off the boat and spent his time creating rules like “best of 99” races to ensure the biggest budget won.

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Ran across this by accident, landed on fp. 

Apologies if already linked. Anyway screenshots with my annotations.

DeVos and Fauth are upfronting money and promised NYYC multiple cycles. 

Not feasible to integrate the scammers into AM, good luck in your future endeavors. 

20220109_144405.jpg

20220109_144615.jpg

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I mean, saying it contains elements advocated by the club isn't quite taking credit. It's sort of closer to praise. I guess it's true that Buckley are Canfield have their own ideas about how to do things and don't want to fit in on other teams. I guess that is good in some ways and bad in others. That attitude does require some way to get funding!

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14 hours ago, nroose said:

I mean, saying it contains elements advocated by the club isn't quite taking credit. It's sort of closer to praise. I guess it's true that Buckley are Canfield have their own ideas about how to do things and don't want to fit in on other teams. I guess that is good in some ways and bad in others. That attitude does require some way to get funding!

I wouldn’t call Buckley a scam artist, but he sure knows how to charm Taylor, who seriously fucked up by hitching his star to a wanna be rap producer. Buckley did fuck over LBYC, but that’s the fault of a couple of officers who didn’t listen to other members who knew Buckley’s ceiling. Dude is a poser. 

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Desire for attention. Also to make clear that the S+S riff raff are not included. 

And that it's multi year. And NYYC does not have to pay anything now. 

Leaves S+S free to challenge with Ralph Lauren Yacht Club. 

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Puts pressure onto ETNZ if you're having back channel discussions like "Hey GD it's THutch here, we've got it all lined up to challenge again with NYYC, sorry about that mess with KHD, but we really would much prefer to sail in Auckland again, it was great last time, plus Deano doesn't want to come back over here. However if you must sail the cup overseas we really can't go to Jeddah, the bosses won't allow it, so we'll officially apply when you sort that out. "

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1 hour ago, dogwatch said:

I'd have thought the pressure could be applied without the pompous press release.

Really?  You sure have a bug up your arse for NYYC.

They have been all sorts of questions about AM, NYYC, sailors, etc....   It just announces that AM/NYYC are all ready to go along as ABNZ finds an acceptable venue.  It gives them an out since they have not put down any money.  It could also put some pressure on ABNZ to hold the race in New Zealand.

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Did I miss something, or are folks just speculating that they haven't formally entered?

Cause.. If I had to get in line to get an AC 40, I would get in that line ASAP. You can always hire more sailors, designers, etc.. but you can't get time back. Wasting time to play games is nonsensical.

It would not make sense for AM to employ 20+ designers and have them "already racing" as THutch put it, to not enter based on the location. So they already know the venue, or there is a short list of venues which aren't in the middle east AM is willing to accept.

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They haven't said they've formally entered, but I suppose "American Magic is pleased to confirm that it intends to compete in the 37th America’s Cup (AC37) and represent the New York Yacht Club (NYYC)" could mean they've filled the challenge and "The team and the Club eagerly await the announcement within the next few months of the venue and schedule for the 37th America’s Cup." doesn't mean anything.

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WRT to an AC40, aren't they the last challenger, loosely speaking?  Who else?  Malta? Ralph Lauren? They are unlikely to have  latercomer get ahead of them in line for an AC40.

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6 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

WRT to an AC40, aren't they the last challenger, loosely speaking?  Who else?  Malta? Ralph Lauren? They are unlikely to have  latercomer get ahead of them in line for an AC40.

I don't know if there are more challengers or not. Simply because the collective forum doesn't know about another potential team, doesn't mean a potential team doesn't exist. 

But wouldn't it suck if S+S suckered another club into entering and they got in front of AM for an AC40? S+S have proven they can at least make it that far, so the chance is there- why risk it?

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6 minutes ago, atwinda said:

I don't know if there are more challengers or not. Simply because the collective forum doesn't know about another potential team, doesn't mean a potential team doesn't exist. 

But wouldn't it suck if S+S suckered another club into entering and they got in front of AM for an AC40? S+S have proven they can at least make it that far, so the chance is there- why risk it?

Don't they owe GD money from the last time? No way he will sacrifice his wine cellar to let them in.

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1 hour ago, atwinda said:

I don't know if there are more challengers or not. Simply because the collective forum doesn't know about another potential team, doesn't mean a potential team doesn't exist. 

But wouldn't it suck if S+S suckered another club into entering and they got in front of AM for an AC40? S+S have proven they can at least make it that far, so the chance is there- why risk it?

NYYC could then wait and buy the "S+S" AC40 for a discount lol.  Cash in hand...

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5 hours ago, atwinda said:

Cause.. If I had to get in line to get an AC 40, I would get in that line ASAP. You can always hire more sailors, designers, etc.. but you can't get time back. Wasting time to play games is nonsensical.

Maybe they have an LEQ12 plan in the works; and/or plans to upgrade the Mule?

While the AC40 looks great to me, some teams may be better-off up-developing 12's instead.

edit: is there a restriction on the number of 12's you can build?

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9 hours ago, atwinda said:

Did I miss something, or are folks just speculating that they haven't formally entered?

Cause.. If I had to get in line to get an AC 40, I would get in that line ASAP. You can always hire more sailors, designers, etc.. but you can't get time back. Wasting time to play games is nonsensical.

It would not make sense for AM to employ 20+ designers and have them "already racing" as THutch put it, to not enter based on the location. So they already know the venue, or there is a short list of venues which aren't in the middle east AM is willing to accept.

So you are assuming that they are not working on any design until they submit a formal entry?  That would be foolish, nothing is stopping them from working full speed on the design.  They are not wasting any time. 

Also, they AC 40’s are being made in a factory in China, not some specialty house in NZ.  It would be save to assume that all of the AC40’s will be delivered at pretty much the same time.

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10 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

Really?  You sure have a bug up your arse for NYYC.

They have been all sorts of questions about AM, NYYC, sailors, etc....   It just announces that AM/NYYC are all ready to go along as ABNZ finds an acceptable venue.  It gives them an out since they have not put down any money.  It could also put some pressure on ABNZ to hold the race in New Zealand.

No I don’t. But assuming Chobdani is correct that they haven’t in fact entered, the presser is bizarre. When senior clubs communicate with each other by press release, something is fucked up. You’ve  said nothing that explains it.

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10 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

So you are assuming that they are not working on any design until they submit a formal entry?  That would be foolish, nothing is stopping them from working full speed on the design.  They are not wasting any time. 

Also, they AC 40’s are being made in a factory in China, not some specialty house in NZ.  It would be save to assume that all of the AC40’s will be delivered at pretty much the same time.

AC40's will be delivered one every three weeks beginning later this year.  Speculation has TNZ w/ Qty 2, Ineos w/Qty 1, Alinghi w Qty/ 2, LR w Qty/ 2. That gives TNZ and Ineos several weeks/months advantage on the others

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1 hour ago, enigmatically2 said:

One hopes that teams that are getting 2 will only get one before the others get theirs

Unfortunately that is not how it is going to work.  It is based on when you enter and put your order in. So TNZ and Ineos will have a couple month lead on Foil testing on their AC40s before the other teams. 

American Magic should really be looking to build a test boat similar to TNZ's test boat which was what the AC40 was based off it.  Otherwise they are way behind in any foil testing.

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56 minutes ago, Chobani Sailor said:

Unfortunately that is not how it is going to work.  It is based on when you enter and put your order in. So TNZ and Ineos will have a couple month lead on Foil testing on their AC40s before the other teams. 

American Magic should really be looking to build a test boat similar to TNZ's test boat which was what the AC40 was based off it.  Otherwise they are way behind in any foil testing.

They should be able to use their old 38ft test boat

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52 minutes ago, johnstarks said:

They should be able to use their old 38ft test boat

Where is that? Did it stay state-side, or shipped over to NZ? 

How about the other teams?
Last I remember, AM said all their gear was in NZ still...

Pretty sure I saw the LR boats back in ITA. There must have been some issues with the mini moon- we didn't see much of it, or it was too late in the cycle for it to be effective and they just focused on the full scale boats.

Ineos? Did they ship their junk home, or did they get turned into chips for recycled carbon bunks for the new boat already? Do they have a base?

Any word on which v1 boat Alinghi is after? I'd imagine LR b1 as that was at least close to their b2.

S+S still trying to get their hands on ETNZ v1?
 

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36 minutes ago, atwinda said:

Ineos? Did they ship their junk home, or did they get turned into chips for recycled carbon bunks for the new boat already? Do they have a base?

The Ineos boats are back home, yes.

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1 hour ago, atwinda said:

Ineos? Did they ship their junk home, or did they get turned into chips for recycled carbon bunks for the new boat already? Do they have a base?

AFAIK the design team is now based at Brackley, base of the Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 operation, which is about as far from being a marine location as you can get in the UK. I understand the monstrous building in Portsmouth has been sublet to various tenants. So if/how they can do any testing in UK waters, I'm not sure, however I understand the boats are back in the UK somewhere. 

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5 hours ago, Chobani Sailor said:

AC40's will be delivered one every three weeks beginning later this year.  Speculation has TNZ w/ Qty 2, Ineos w/Qty 1, Alinghi w Qty/ 2, LR w Qty/ 2. That gives TNZ and Ineos several weeks/months advantage on the others

How useful is testing foils on an AC40 vs more simulation time on a virtual AC75? 

Also, can teams get data from AC40 testing, with the common surveillance plan?

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18 minutes ago, shebeen said:

How useful is testing foils on an AC40 vs more simulation time on a virtual AC75? 

Also, can teams get data from AC40 testing, with the common surveillance plan?

I am away and so can't easily check the rules, but if my memory is correct they can test foils on an AC40 provided they fit within the AC40 rule. But if they they contravene that then they count as one of the AC75 foils. Which means that essentially they are tied to that foils design - or at least the immutable portion (again from memory something of the order of 80%).

Only the LEQ12s really offer a testing opportunity for different foils.

You get the feeling that NZ want to lever their simulation and avoid anyone testing anything radical or innovative. Which is shame given that the AC is a design competition

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2 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

I am away and so can't easily check the rules, but if my memory is correct they can test foils on an AC40 provided they fit within the AC40 rule. But if they they contravene that then they count as one of the AC75 foils. Which means that essentially they are tied to that foils design - or at least the immutable portion (again from memory something of the order of 80%).

Only the LEQ12s really offer a testing opportunity for different foils.

You get the feeling that NZ want to lever their simulation and avoid anyone testing anything radical or innovative. Which is shame given that the AC is a design competition

It WAS design competition. Coutts started the trend to one design, Dalton solidified it. 
 

Now, the AC is just Dalton’s cash cow. 

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2 hours ago, shebeen said:

How useful is testing foils on an AC40 vs more simulation time on a virtual AC75? 

Also, can teams get data from AC40 testing, with the common surveillance plan?

Well, ETNZ was the last team to show up with a test mule, and they did alright. In this day and age, it seems like the main value in the test boat is to confirm that the computers were right. 

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6 hours ago, sunseeker said:

It WAS design competition. Coutts started the trend to one design, Dalton solidified it. 
 

Now, the AC is just Dalton’s cash cow. 

Dalton is also forcing his choice of design onto whoever wins the next event.

The biggest asshole move by anyone in the history of the cup.

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33 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Dalton is also forcing his choice of design onto whoever wins the next event.

The biggest asshole move by anyone in the history of the cup.

How?

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13 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Snip <AFAIK the design team is now based at Brackley,  which is about as far from being a marine location as you can get in the UK. >

Bloody hell, it's nearly 2 hours from Portsmouth? :(:(:( Oh the humanity! :P

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2 minutes ago, Jethrow said:

Bloody hell, it's nearly 2 hours from Portsmouth? :(:(:( Oh the humanity! :P

A bit longer if you are pushing a launch trolley.

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The team still has a tech business in the old base, and I think have the option of resuming on water operations from there later in the campaign.

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Actually @dogwatch, I shouldn't really comment. I spent the whole summer of '89 in Hamble doing Whitbread service and never got farther that Portsmouth or Southampton. :lol:

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4 minutes ago, Jethrow said:

Actually @dogwatch, I shouldn't really comment. I spent the whole summer of '89 in Hamble doing Whitbread service and never got farther that Portsmouth or Southampton. :lol:

You got further than some residents of Portsmouth then, who consider Southampton to be enemy territory.

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2 hours ago, Forourselves said:

How?

Maybe turning a design race into a semi one design. Then to put a high price on wanting to do what, for over 130 years, was considered part of the spoils of victory.

For you this is okay. For many, not so much.

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6 hours ago, Gissie said:

Dalton is also forcing his choice of design onto whoever wins the next event.

The biggest asshole move by anyone in the history of the cup.

It’s not just an asshole move, it is not deed compliant. 

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9 hours ago, Gissie said:

Maybe turning a design race into a semi one design. Then to put a high price on wanting to do what, for over 130 years, was considered part of the spoils of victory.

For you this is okay. For many, not so much.

I guess the deed allows any agreement they want. Not really sure what I would do. They tried to take out the stuff that was not working, and leave stuff that is still interesting. They are trying to win and also trying to keep the thing going. I don't know that I would be able to do better.

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39 minutes ago, nroose said:

I guess the deed allows any agreement they want. Not really sure what I would do. They tried to take out the stuff that was not working, and leave stuff that is still interesting. They are trying to win and also trying to keep the thing going. I don't know that I would be able to do better.

So the winner having a choice on what design to race wasn't working?

Seems to have been fine for over 100 years.

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I don't know if its been fine.  SailGP seems to have more momentum right now and that would be the AC if GD wasn't so pissed at Larry (not that he didn't have cause).

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4 hours ago, cbulger said:

I don't know if its been fine.  SailGP seems to have more momentum right now and that would be the AC if GD wasn't so pissed at Larry (not that he didn't have cause).

But the AC isn't SailGP and I wish people would stop trying to make it so. Both very different concepts.

Unless you think the AC should be a one design, cup raced for every year (or maybe up for grabs each regatta to keep it moving), red bull event.

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2 hours ago, Forourselves said:

In what way? Remember, facts matter.

According to the deed it's a "friendly contest between nations" where the winner gets to decide what happens in the future event.

Dictating to the winner with penalties is financial blackmail, despite how transparent it is.

I don't think it would get to that, but a court could well find this clause is not deed compliant.

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7 hours ago, shebeen said:

According to the deed it's a "friendly contest between nations" where the winner gets to decide what happens in the future event.

Dictating to the winner with penalties is financial blackmail, despite how transparent it is.

I don't think it would get to that, but a court could well find this clause is not deed compliant.

It was put in there specifically for Ernesto. Ernesto wanted some sort of attempted guarantee that same AC75s would be used for AC38 as well.  While nobody can really determine if it is deed compliant, they put it in there to satisfy the request.

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1 hour ago, Chobani Sailor said:

It was put in there specifically for Ernesto. Ernesto wanted some sort of attempted guarantee that same AC75s would be used for AC38 as well.  While nobody can really determine if it is deed compliant, they put it in there to satisfy the request.

If that's to be believed, decided over beers  between SirJim/Ben and EB?

Or do GD and Ernie see eye to eye these days?

 

Would be interesting to see the horse trading on the penalty figure!

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12 hours ago, Gissie said:

But the AC isn't SailGP and I wish people would stop trying to make it so. Both very different concepts.

Unless you think the AC should be a one design, cup raced for every year (or maybe up for grabs each regatta to keep it moving), red bull event.

Clearly the history of the AC isn't what SailGP is now.  But SailGP is a version of where all teams except NZ wanted to take the Cup after Bermuda.  If there is any consensus among the super-rich players - it seems to be that they would like the AC to look a more like Formula One. Sure - with one guy paying for the whole SailGP exhibition, they are keeping it one-design to control costs.   But if/when there are 5 or 6 rich guys playing, watch them open up the foil and aero design.

The differences will start to fade.  Maybe the circuits will merge.

And yes, the AC will have evolved.

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1 hour ago, cbulger said:

Clearly the history of the AC isn't what SailGP is now.  But SailGP is a version of where all teams except NZ wanted to take the Cup after Bermuda.  If there is any consensus among the super-rich players - it seems to be that they would like the AC to look a more like Formula One. Sure - with one guy paying for the whole SailGP exhibition, they are keeping it one-design to control costs.   But if/when there are 5 or 6 rich guys playing, watch them open up the foil and aero design.

The differences will start to fade.  Maybe the circuits will merge.

And yes, the AC will have evolved.

The AC has always had limits to the design. There are limits in the deed itself. It's OK for participants to agree to other limits. It's fine for you to object to specific limits. Or to object to the tightness of the limits. Or to object specifically to contractual obligations to maintain specific limits in the future. But it seems silly to object vaguely to the idea of limits. And it's also silly to say that any version of the AC was as limited as SailGP. SailGP is pretty strict OD. The AC has never been anywhere near that strict. And I very much enjoy following both SailGP and AC.

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1 hour ago, cbulger said:

 If there is any consensus among the super-rich players - it seems to be that they would like the AC to look a more like Formula One.

On this I totally disagree.

Most of the super-rich have lost interest because they don't want to be involved in some red bullesque, commercial venture for the plebs. They have moved into other sailing events where there is less focus on the millions they can squander on a boat they can drive if they want to.

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9 minutes ago, Gissie said:

 

They have moved into other sailing events where there is less focus on the millions they can squander on a boat they can drive if they want to.

Exactly. Jeff Bezos rode his rocket.