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And we have liftoff!!

I for one was happy to finally see an American team that didn’t just reek of assholes. Terry was a great bloke to have in front of the cameras and the intimate videos behind the scenes I found quite f

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On 9/16/2019 at 5:17 AM, Horn Rock said:

Defiant_top.jpg.3d641c052f5e47b245a58b2dbe1ca1f9.jpg

You get a pretty good view of the very snub bow in this top shot - yeah it aint pretty. She carries her beam a long way forward and aft as well.

So, what's with the reverse shape in the windward skin of the main?

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Off topic but if you are heading to Pennsacola to check out AM this winter there is some stadium sailing starting there. 

http://www.premieresailingleague.com/2019/09/20/pensacola-to-host-premiere-sailing-league-exhibition-series/

Don't  know more than that. Not sure if they will hide the boat or let her strut her stuff.

Been thinking of going down sometime to see what's to see if anything.

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1 minute ago, Priscilla said:

The scow bow sure is not pretty but sure is pretty fast.

2172C532-6767-4CE5-A824-279E67897361.thumb.jpeg.5e4fcb56a987c0715be96bcb2982595d.jpeg|

 

I don't like the scow bow, not nice looking, not very fast in lots of conditions, however it has the advantage of volume if the foiler falls.

Flipper touched the bow and crashed hard, I don't think it would have been the case with the Orca and a scow bow.

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1 minute ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Flipper touched the bow and crashed hard, I don't think it would have been the case with the Orca and a scow bow.

More conjecture. Perhaps they were testing what the gp guys call glide, they dump onto a hull prior a maneuver when conditions were in the edge. Perhaps they crashed hard and didn't go under. Your assertion with no evidence is...well so..you.

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6 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Another from IG

29C947CE-235E-401E-B9E5-23915D6DA0FC.thumb.jpeg.195c61e8ef81524b6b190181fb5388bc.jpeg

Honestly AM have to put on an Orca style white dot oval thing just under the jib on the side and some eyes at the front and call it a killer whale, it would look so cool. With that. Also there's something VERY dinghy-esque about that jib, like I know it's not sheeted in so it's probably that, but even still....

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2 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

I'll bite.  What's a cableless jib?

Doesn't sit on a regular stay. Doyle have done wonders for Cable less Zeros and staysails, had them on the MOMO, awesome gear. No reason why the jibs can't work, although you would have to look at good luff tension, which detracts from the original Cable less ethos, which was lower luff loads. 

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11 minutes ago, TANGO QUEBEC said:

Doesn't sit on a regular stay. Doyle have done wonders for Cable less Zeros and staysails, had them on the MOMO, awesome gear. No reason why the jibs can't work, although you would have to look at good luff tension, which detracts from the original Cable less ethos, which was lower luff loads. 

Does AM’s jib look cable less to you? 

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59 minutes ago, alphafb552 said:

As suggested in the LR thread, we have the Sardine for the Italians.

How about Pollock for the Frackers?

They're based on the Camber in Portsmouth. The boat needs to be called the Skate. The poetry of big Ben getting inside a massive fat Skate down on the camber in Portsmouth is just too obvious to ignore. 

Yup, the boat should be called the skate and the team referred to as the skate frackers. It's just too perfect not to be. 

Google 'Portsmouth Skates Southampton scummers' for full history. 

Or urban dictionary here

 

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6 hours ago, alphafb552 said:

As suggested in the LR thread, we have the Sardine for the Italians.

How about Pollock for the Frackers?

The first two are based upon how the boat looks or the official name.  Need to see how the other two boats look before we start naming them.

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14 hours ago, DHFiend said:

I am sure I spoke to Stingray when 17 was launched, and the rig stood up in in Anacortes WA, and many here think he is a Boeing guy, but I think it would be funny if he turned out to be Madro....

Capture5.PNG

Great photo, great memories. I rented a plane the day of DZ’s first sail, was terrific fun up in scenic Anacortes. Visited them later in San Diego too, right after they finished the wing. 

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

 

Question about Ground Effect. Looking at Orca in stable flight, it seems that the mid section of the boat is closer to the water than the aft section. For GE to work, wouldn't the stern have to be equal distance to the water or even slightly closer than the area ahead of it?

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40 minutes ago, 2Newts said:

Question about Ground Effect. Looking at Orca in stable flight, it seems that the mid section of the boat is closer to the water than the aft section. For GE to work, wouldn't the stern have to be equal distance to the water or even slightly closer than the area ahead of it?

Ducks don't have flat bottoms and they use GE when flying close to the water, cormorants, swans etc do to.

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8 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

Ducks don't have flat bottoms and they use GE when flying close to the water, cormorants, swans etc do to.

Yeah but they have the high aspect ratio of their wings working for them in ground effect. These boats have a very low aspect ratio (or the hull) and don't get the same sort of benefit.

A sailplane with 40:1 aspect ratio (or more) can stay in ground effect for miles to make it back to the airfield if the take it right down to the deck with plenty of speed, hopefully a wheat field or the like. They can 'pop up' to clear roads and powerlines and then drop right back into ground effect and keep right on. I think the ground effect is good for up to a distance of your wingspan so a 60' span sailplane just 5' off the ground if getting the full effect. Try that in a dead stick low aspect ratio plane such as a F-104 and see for they get!

 

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57 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

As flat as possible, not to forget their wings

pelicangroundeffect.jpg

hoverc6.jpg59cbb16015e9f946ad3210e3.thumb.jpg.5984ddfb025e9f5c9bf5a904c8ecf19a.jpg

Yeah, so all of these have not only wings but a slight upward orientation. Which makes me think even more that there's limited to no GE on Orca when she's in that nose-down attitude that we see in stable mode. 

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2 hours ago, 2Newts said:

Question about Ground Effect. Looking at Orca in stable flight, it seems that the mid section of the boat is closer to the water than the aft section. For GE to work, wouldn't the stern have to be equal distance to the water or even slightly closer than the area ahead of it?

Ground effect results from a combination of forces, one of them is "riding on a cushion of air". Typically the vessels that ride on a cushion of sir have downward angle to "trap air" under the wings.  I think that is what you are talking about.  It can be seen in this video:

Ground Effects Vehicles

But that is not the only way to achieve ground effect.

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Actually GE is a shock wave nothing to do with a cushion of air - sorry.

That is why speed is a crucial factor the one which I think is the limiting factor.

However upwards of 30 knots will mean significant GE effect IMHO.

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12 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Ground effect is surely incidental - minimal at best. It's all about foil lift. 

Yep! Foils for lift and aero-slippery for everything above water.

Remember, water is 836 times denser than air, the ‘effects’ are this time again almost all about the foils. 

My fervent hope is that there will be live readouts and graphics about the foils and flap settings during the racing. 

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I don't see what all the fuss is about ground effect, the aspect ratio of the hull is truly terrible, for the hull to make any meaningful lifting contribution it would have to be going MUCH faster or MUCH lower. Sure they have a little bit of ground effect that will be accounted for but its more of a nice side effect than a meaningful decision in the design process. 

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19 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

Ducks don't fly much faster, and NYYC flys pretty close.

Sorry GE provides sweet spot where drag is reduced and speed increases.  IMHO.

Yes, the water provides an endplate but this hull’s beam isn’t anything like the relative wingspan of the birds or of that glider above. There will be an effect but very minimal.

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50 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Yes, the water provides an endplate but this hull’s beam isn’t anything like the relative wingspan of the birds or of that glider above. There will be an effect but very minimal.

Ducks flap their wings so minimal effect on GE totally providing forward motion. 

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3 hours ago, Raptorsailor said:

I don't see what all the fuss is about ground effect, the aspect ratio of the hull is truly terrible, for the hull to make any meaningful lifting contribution it would have to be going MUCH faster or MUCH lower. Sure they have a little bit of ground effect that will be accounted for but its more of a nice side effect than a meaningful decision in the design process. 

I completely agree. I think the idea behind the hull shape is more along the same principles as skipping a stone. Bounce off the water and get back in the air as fast as possible. 

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11 hours ago, ~HHN92~ said:

36 years ago today Australia II won race 7 to win the Cup over NYYC's Liberty, September 26, 1983. Still brings a tear to my eye...

 

AII Liberty Race 7 Finish.jpg

 

 No ducks or pelicans here.  Forgive the digression.

Thirty-six years ago!  Still seems like yesterday. Lots of great memories.

Light air contest. DC appeared to have it locked up.   On media boat, scribes scribbling or snoozing but no one watching.. On Aussie tender on our starboard bow, only the driver visible on the bridge.

An Aussie popped out on the after deck to check on things.  Suddenly pandemonium. The Little White Pointer had had sailed into fresher breeze on the Rhode Island shore and was back in the game.

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@smackdaddy you seem to be pining for attention so I'll throw you a bone mate...

Based on the dimensions on which you've determined your attraction to SGP I'll save us all the trouble and let you know in advance the AC is not for you.

  • The sailing won't be "exciting" enough for you.
  • The app won't be "good" enough for you.
  • The boats won't be "fast" enough for you.
  • The event won't be "important" enough for you.
  • The views won't be "high" enough for you.
  • The threads won't be "legendary" enough for you.

And yet none of that will matter to anyone else.

It's like trying to get a Monster Jam yokel excited by F1 or WRC, it ain't gonna happen.

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17 minutes ago, rh3000 said:
  • The sailing won't be "exciting" enough for you.
  • The app won't be "good" enough for you.
  • The boats won't be "fast" enough for you.
  • The event won't be "important" enough for you.
  • The views won't be "high" enough for you.
  • The threads won't be "legendary" enough for you.

I'll add one to your list rh -

  • The sailing won't be "re-defined" enough for you.
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At least the same gaggle of KiWhingersTM will still be whingy enough. Actually, I'd say you're redefining whinging.

Anyway, this is the NYYC thread, and NYYC is already dominating - which is what drew my attention. As you know, with me, it's all about actual performance...not blather.

Now go back to your NZ thread and continue spin the lackluster showing of your boys and their slow boat. You don't belong here.

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On 9/25/2019 at 12:27 AM, Forourselves said:

As opposed to a billionaire with more money than he knows what to do with, that opens his wallet, builds a few boats, buys a few guys and says "Hey Tommy, since I fucked up when I denied you the steering duties and gave Jimmy his camo wheel, go and grab ya mates, money is no object and we can pretend to represent these countries that I've chosen. There's no Kiwi's this time so you can actually win this one"

The AC has existed for over 160 years. It is perfectly sustainable.

SailGP isn't a good model for sustainability, it relies on Larry's interest, which as we've seen wavers once he loses interest. Teams need sponsors, especially if its going to cost 7 million dollars a year (at least) to campaign. 

When SailGP has existed for 160 years, and remains relevant like the AC is, let me know. Until then, you have nothing except your own gullible opinion to base your statements about SailGP being more sustainable than the AC on.

You used to rail on and on how sail GP would never make it to the start gate .

Now you are whining about sustainability .

You were wrong , we know it , you know it now accept it like a big boy and move on ! 

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1 hour ago, smackdaddy said:

You don't belong here.

 

 

 

My understanding is that this the threads are for discussion of topics and teams. Although those preferring a particular team may frequent one thread more than another, by observation the threads are not fan-club threads.  Right now discussion is stimulated by the boats and observation/speculation about performance.

 

Cue abusive response.

 

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17 hours ago, Monkey said:

I completely agree. I think the idea behind the hull shape is more along the same principles as skipping a stone. Bounce off the water and get back in the air as fast as possible. 

And there is safety in low ride height. Having a wing come to the surface, aerate, and drop the bow from two meters would be...bad. Until there is a certain advantage from being up high no team is going to risk it.

There is always yurtle the turtle reasoning tho.

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2 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

At least the same gaggle of KiWhingersTM will still be whingy enough. Actually, I'd say you're redefining whinging.

Anyway, this is the NYYC thread, and NYYC is already dominating - which is what drew my attention. As you know, with me, it's all about actual performance...not blather.

Now go back to your NZ thread and continue spin the lackluster showing of your boys and their slow boat. You don't belong here.

And with every post you make you further prove our point. We'll add "dominating" to the list too - classic!

We are here to discuss NYYC, you're here to whinge about the AC. 

It's a kiwi boy driving the AM boat btw. Hell even Hutchinson is ex ETNZ. The things you learn eh. ;-)

If you do elect to stay and regurgitate versions of the list, it's worth pointing out that when you see "AC36" used - it means all racing this cycle, not just the final match races. I know that's confused you in the past along with so many other things. Agree it can't be fun.

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4 hours ago, maxmini said:

You used to rail on and on how sail GP would never make it to the start gate .

Now you are whining about sustainability .

You were wrong , we know it , you know it now accept it like a big boy and move on ! 

Sounds like there is a legitimate question of sustainability after season 2 if teams can't self-fund...

Larry Ellison is a fan of sailing, but he hasn’t just set up SailGP for his own pleasure and he hopes that the circuit will stand on its own two feet," confirmed Julien Di Biase. How much patience does the billionaire have? "Teams that have not found a partner by the end of next season will find it tough," he replied.

AN APPRAISAL OF THE FIRST SEASON OF SAILGP  

 

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6 minutes ago, Indio said:

 "Teams that have not found a partner by the end of next season will find it tough," he replied.

 

 

That would come to exactly the length of time that Larry spends on each of his toy hobbies before he first slashes and then ends the spending.

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14 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

That would come to exactly the length of time that Larry spends on each of his toy hobbies before he first slashes and then ends the spending.

It is just like any other non-stadium sports league, teams have to find sponsors to pay the bills.  The “owners” that start the league can only pay the way for so long.  Sailing can not be supported only by gate ticket revenue, it needs sponsors that value the advertising value.   People may not care for Larry, but at least he was generous enough to fund the startup.  It is ridiculous to think he should fund the whole SailGP forever.

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21 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

That would come to exactly the length of time that Larry spends on each of his toy hobbies before he first slashes and then ends the spending.

I knew that was your 13 months number for purse tightening...see the Circus thread  ;)

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2 minutes ago, Herfy said:

It is just like any other non-stadium sports league, teams have to find sponsors to pay the bills.  The “owners” that start the league can only pay the way for so long.  Sailing can not be supported only by gate ticket revenue, it needs sponsors that value the advertising value.   People may not care for Larry, but at least he was generous enough to fund the startup.  It is ridiculous to think he should fund the whole SailGP forever.

Silly to have read "fully underwritten" as "fully funded" https://sailgp.com/about/introduction/

And the 5 year commitment was oft mentioned. Better go change Wikipedia too

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SailGP

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5 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Silly to have read "fully underwritten" as "fully funded" https://sailgp.com/about/introduction/

And the 5 year commitment was oft mentioned. Better go change Wikipedia too

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SailGP

Uncle Larry saw the writing on the wall with the launch of the first 2 AC75s, with even more interest once the the next 2 are launched. SailGP filled the 12-month void while the AC75s were under construction - now it's time to pay. the ferryman

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relax 

they still race J class boats so f50s have a chance of continuing the tradition of racing on historical AC boats

not sure they belong in the real AC threads though

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2 hours ago, nroose said:

They did race IACCs at least a few times long after they were in the AC.

Yes, but they were raced by enthusiasts, not by a petulant billionaire who had his butt handed to him in an AC Match who then decided to take his toys and fuck off to set up his own play pen.                             

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12 minutes ago, Indio said:

Yes, but they were raced by enthusiasts, not by a petulant billionaire who had his butt handed to him in an AC Match who then decided to take his toys and fuck off to set up his own play pen.                             

The leftover AC teams raced them during the AC33 time-out in the Louis Vuitton Series. 

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6 hours ago, phill_nz said:

relax 

they still race J class boats so f50s have a chance of continuing the tradition of racing on historical AC boats

not sure they belong in the real AC threads though

Not really, as the F50's aren't AC50's.

They may look like it to the untrained eye, but they aren't AC50's. 

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6 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Not really, as the F50's aren't AC50's.

They may look like it to the untrained eye, but they aren't AC50's. 

same tec ... old

same as the j class .. ie .. old tec

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