Black Widow

[DFG 10]

Anyone used Pettit’s Black Widow paint and had it burnished?  I sail/race in Chesapeake Bay. 

[fucket 78]

A fleetmate put it on before this past season in Lake Michigan. In the end, they didn't have enough thickness to burnish, so it was just sanded to 1000 grit. Almost zero growth during the season.

Boat just came out of the water so we are all pretty interested in taking a look at it on the hard.

[Alcatraz5768 414]

Can you get it in pink?

[Greyhound37 76]

Yes I had Black Widow applied and burnished last spring. Also a Farr 400 at Jabins with BW. My boat sat in the slip for 2 months without use. We hauled pre-Oxford race and was surprised to see a remarkably clean bottom. The little growth we had was at the lower keel not close to sun light.

Very happy with it. I am told it will get soft the longer it is in the water but no evidence so far.

[Rumor & Gossip 0]

If you are ever going to race against me... It sucks!

 

Otherwise, carry on and go fast. Best paint I've ever used. Not even burnished this year due to time.

[Meat Wad 570]

Looks like Black is it but I like the metallica gun metal shine.
http://www.pettitpaint.com/product.asp?id=300
 

Hard, Slick, Burnishable Racing Antifouling

• Contains four slickening agents: Molybdenum Disulfide, PTFE, Graphite, and Silicon
• Slickest, fastest, and easiest to clean racing paint
• Provides high performance, multi season, dual biocide antifouling protection
• Can be polished to a mirror-like finish

Black Widow is the slickest, fastest, ultra-smooth, burnishable racing finish available. Its powerful dual biocides provide multi-season protection in all waters. Black Widow is easily applied by roller, brush, or spray and is easily burnishable to a metallic “gun-metal” shine. 

Black Widow makes an excellent paint for the bottom of any boat where speed is the number one priority, including racing sailboats, and high performance offshore powerboats. Black Widow contains four strong slickening agents: Molybdenum Disulfide, PTFE, Graphite and Silicon.

 

[Suijin 0]

On 10/10/2017 at 7:25 AM, Greyhound37 said:

Yes I had Black Widow applied and burnished last spring. Also a Farr 400 at Jabins with BW. My boat sat in the slip for 2 months without use. We hauled pre-Oxford race and was surprised to see a remarkably clean bottom. The little growth we had was at the lower keel not close to sun light.

Very happy with it. I am told it will get soft the longer it is in the water but no evidence so far.

That Farr 400, Jeroboam, won it's class in Annapolis to Newport and did well at Block Island pretty much right after the bottom was completely redone and painted with BW. Pretty sure Laurent had it burnished. He was thinking about dry sailing it, not sure if he does so dunno how it's anti-fouling properties have held up.

[S.S. Peanut Gallery 0]

There is also a Farr 30 that has it on. Looks good and owner says they like it. They sell it at Bacon's for like $260 or something like that.

[LionessRacing 562]

Paging @fastbottoms does this stuff work in SFBAY? 

[Left Shift 2,768]

So, Pettit has come out with a competitor to Baltoplate.  20 years later.  

[fstbttms 61]

11 hours ago, LionessRacing said:

Paging @fastbottoms does this stuff work in SFBAY? 

Too soon to pass judgement.

[12 metre 371]

1 hour ago, fstbttms said:

Too soon to pass judgement.

Fair enough - but what is the evidence so far?

[fstbttms 61]

7 hours ago, 12 metre said:

Fair enough - but what is the evidence so far?

So far it does what an anti fouling paint is supposed to do.

[fucket 78]

The data sheet says at least one coat a year. I'm wondering how many coats have to pile up before you start thinking about taking the old ones off.

[Meat Wad 570]

On 10/11/2017 at 6:49 AM, Suijin said:

That Farr 400, Jeroboam, won it's class in Annapolis to Newport and did well at Block Island pretty much right after the bottom was completely redone and painted with BW. Pretty sure Laurent had it burnished. He was thinking about dry sailing it, not sure if he does so dunno how it's anti-fouling properties have held up.

 

On 10/11/2017 at 10:43 AM, S.S. Peanut Gallery said:

There is also a Farr 30 that has it on. Looks good and owner says they like it. They sell it at Bacon's for like $260 or something like that.

I can't read where it says it is an ablative paint and can be dry sailed for a period of time?

I'll have to give Harvey a buzz.

 

[fstbttms 61]

1 hour ago, Meat Wad said:

 

I can't read where it says it is an ablative paint and can be dry sailed for a period of time?

 

Plenty of online reviews that say it is suitable for use on personal watercraft and bass boats, both of which are typically trailered.

[Green Card 4]

It's just Vivid with some graphite in it.  Same EPA numbers at least...

[Shu 121]

I'm using Petit's Vivid, and though it started out hard, it is softening over time.  The boat has been in the water 7 months now.  Would love to get my hands on the old Balto-plate.  Is that even available anymore?

[Shu 121]

Answered my own question:  Defender, Jamestown Distributors and others carry it. Is it the same stuff it was 20 years ago?

[ryley 425]

I've been a longtime user of VC Offshore through the last 8 years and two boats. This year, since I couldn't get VC Offshore in a small can and I only needed to touch up some spots, I bought a quart of Black Widow since it's compatible with overcoating the VC. It went on so nicely, I ended up buying some more and putting a full coat on the whole bottom and two coats along the waterline and on the keel. I clean my own boat bottom, and last year after about July I was diving weekly to get hard growth off the VC. This year, I've been in every 2-3 weeks to wipe the slime off the black widow. It shows no signs of hard growth on it anywhere, and even the usual grass that grows at the waterline level has been minimal and has scrubbed off easily. We didn't get a chance to do much burnishing this year but the bottom has definitely been fast and easy to maintain in Boston Harbor conditions.

[fstbttms 61]

On 10/16/2017 at 3:24 PM, Green Card said:

It's just Vivid with some graphite in it.  Same EPA numbers at least...

If Black Widow is compatible with VC Offshore (as reported above), it is not "just Vivid with some graphite in it."

[Caca Cabeza 130]

On 10/9/2017 at 7:21 PM, By the lee said:

What colour is it?

Blaque 

[From the Helm 16]

I put BW on my powerboat over barrier coat.  Fresh water.  Slime and zebra mussels are the common problem in our water.   BW is better than VC17 for slime and hard growth, bottom required minimal cleaning and was really easy to wipe off.   It stays hard, hasn't been worn away anywhere.      BW is a thick paint to apply, it lays down very smooth and took zero MPH off the top end of my previously un-painted powerboat.   Will look at doing sailboat with it for next season.  

[ryley 425]

22 hours ago, fstbttms said:

If Black Widow is compatible with VC Offshore (as reported above), it is not "just Vivid with some graphite in it."

Fast, took a while to find the info but they should make it clearer because it's a selling point imo. I was afraid I wouldn't be able to apply over a 'teflon' paint, but all the bottom required was a light sanding. They recommend 80, I used 100. easy peasy. As noted by From the Helm, it's a thick paint. It took about 10 minutes to thoroughly mix by hand, next time I'll use an eggbeater. One season's not much to go on, especially since Boston Harbor had an atypical year regarding water temp, etc. Still, I'll be doing a second year's worth of 'testing.'

[Raked Aft\\ 113]

Going w BW this winter.

  any idea if it can be tinted to a slightly lighter shade of grey?

  Bottom's vc17 now, assuming that's all gotta come off...

 

thx,

[fstbttms 61]

1 minute ago, Raked Aft\\ said:

 

  Bottom's vc17 now, assuming that's all gotta come off...

 

Have you not read the thread?

[Merit 25 4]

The 400's last regatta is this weekend, it has been dry sailed for the last 1/2 of this year.  When it comes out, I'll have a look and get back to the thread.  However, I wouldn't imagine that there would be any significant wear.  

[fucket 78]

57 minutes ago, fstbttms said:

Have you not read the thread?

VC Offshore is not the same thing as VC-17. NFW this stuff sticks to VC-17.

[fstbttms 61]

2 minutes ago, fucket said:

VC Offshore is not the same thing as VC-17. NFW this stuff sticks to VC-17.

Both are vinyl-based products. That's the determining factor.

[ryley 425]

1 hour ago, Raked Aft\\ said:

Going w BW this winter.

  any idea if it can be tinted to a slightly lighter shade of grey?

  Bottom's vc17 now, assuming that's all gotta come off...

 

thx,

I'm pretty sure based on pettit's recommendations for their other bottom paints, you'll have to remove the vc17 (but doesn't it come off pretty easily with acetone?)

edit: confirmed with Pettit that VC17 needs to come off completely before putting on BW.

[Passport111 17]

How about the other way around?  If you try BW for a season or 2 and its not all its cracked up to be, does any one know if you can put VC17 back over it.  If you have to remove the BW will is be as easy as removing VC17?

[Left Shift 2,768]

On 10/16/2017 at 3:44 PM, Shu said:

I'm using Petit's Vivid, and though it started out hard, it is softening over time.  The boat has been in the water 7 months now.  Would love to get my hands on the old Balto-plate.  Is that even available anymore?

I put Baltoplate on my boat last spring.  Used it for the last 20 years.  Preferred paint in the PNW.  

 

interlux.com/en/us/boat-paint/antifouling/baltoplate

[ryley 425]

13 minutes ago, Passport111 said:

How about the other way around?  If you try BW for a season or 2 and its not all its cracked up to be, does any one know if you can put VC17 back over it.  If you have to remove the BW will is be as easy as removing VC17?

well... this is only anecdotal but I accidentally sanded through the BW at the bow right at the waterline with 400 grit. whoops  so.. it should come off pretty easily

[Laurent Givry 0]

Hello,

I was reading the post about Black widow, For the 2017 season Jeroboam Farr 400 have Black widow on the bottom, she was in the water in April, daysailed ( 4week end in the water) in May, back in the water the all month of June and daysailed the rest of the season( in the water pretty much every weekends for racing. We encounter problems in September, blistering....We are redoing the all bottom now, of course there is no blistering problems on the hull, so Beasley think it was a reaction of the BW, we are not sure what happen. Anyway, I am not putting back BW on her, I am going baltoplate. 

[Laurent Givry 0]

drysailed not daysailed, sorry

[Varan 1,943]

Balto is a good know product.

 

Edit... More specifically, in colder water (pnw), be it fresh or brine, balto has worked well for us. More durable than vc17 when drysailed, and burnishes well.

In warmer climates, gotta wonder how effective oxidized copper is (drysailed).

[jesposito 133]

On 3/10/2018 at 9:03 PM, Laurent Givry said:

Hello,

I was reading the post about Black widow, For the 2017 season Jeroboam Farr 400 have Black widow on the bottom, she was in the water in April, daysailed ( 4week end in the water) in May, back in the water the all month of June and daysailed the rest of the season( in the water pretty much every weekends for racing. We encounter problems in September, blistering....We are redoing the all bottom now, of course there is no blistering problems on the hull, so Beasley think it was a reaction of the BW, we are not sure what happen. Anyway, I am not putting back BW on her, I am going baltoplate. 

It could have been solvent trap.

It is not like Balto, you have to spray 1 coat walk away for 3-4 hours before second coat.

Total waste of time, and I don't think it's as good as Balto

My J29 has been dry sailed for the last 12 years with Balto, the bottom has not been sprayed in 13+ years, all I do is a spay touch up, burnish and done

 

[ryley 425]

if I could dry-sail my boat with balto or vc I would, but leaving it in boston harbor for the season, the BW did a fantastic job - much better than the VC that it replaced.

[Murphness 69]

Ryley, can you point me towards the literature that says BW can be applied of Balto? I'm lazy.

Were you able to reduce cleanings as a result? I'm due for another coat of Balto this spring, if I can switch to something that will reduce diving costs, it might actually be worth it. Balto is an awesome product but it has little to no anti fouling properties.

 

[fstbttms 61]

3 minutes ago, Murphness said:

Ryley, can you point me towards the literature that says BW can be applied of Balto?

Black Widow cannot be applied directly over Baltoplate/VC Offshore. The latter product is vinyl-based and is compatible with other vinyl-based paints only. 

[Murphness 69]

3 minutes ago, fstbttms said:

Black Widow cannot be applied directly over Baltoplate/VC Offshore. The latter product is vinyl-based and is compatible with other vinyl-based paints only. 

That was the impression I was under as well. He said above that it could, though...

[fstbttms 61]

32 minutes ago, Murphness said:

That was the impression I was under as well. He said above that it could, though...

No he didn't.

 

On 10/19/2017 at 9:21 AM, ryley said:

I'm pretty sure based on pettit's recommendations for their other bottom paints, you'll have to remove the vc17 (but doesn't it come off pretty easily with acetone?)

edit: confirmed with Pettit that VC17 needs to come off completely before putting on BW.

[ryley 425]

Black Widow absolutely CAN be applied over VC Offshore. the VC needs a scuff. They recommend 80 grit, but I did it with 120. It was why I chose it. 

However, you cannot apply BW over VC-17. VC-17 needs to be removed.

[Murphness 69]

2 minutes ago, fstbttms said:

No he didn't.

 

You come off as an absolute wanker sometimes. Read through a post before being a know-it-all dick. I asked about VC Offshore, not VC17.

[fstbttms 61]

38 minutes ago, Murphness said:

You come off as an absolute wanker sometimes. Read through a post before being a know-it-all dick. I asked about VC Offshore, not VC17.

Apologies. Was not my intent. Also, if I gave erroneous info regarding compatibility, I apologize. However the Pettit compatibility chart does not reference Baltoplate/VC Offshore. I assumed that since those are vinyl products (as is VC 17) that they would not be compatible with Black Widow.

[crashtestdummy 6]

Just about anything can go over  vc offshore/baltoplate but I don’t know of anything you can put them over(Salt water)

[ryley 425]

3 hours ago, fstbttms said:

Apologies. Was not my intent. Also, if I gave erroneous info regarding compatibility, I apologize. However the Pettit compatibility chart does not reference Baltoplate/VC Offshore. I assumed that since those are vinyl products (as is VC 17) that they would not be compatible with Black Widow.

I had to call them to find out that BW is compatible with Offshore, but not with 17.

[stealingisacrime 15]

The boat I race on some has BW over VC offshore and it is fine.  Last season was the first. 

[Murphness 69]

4 hours ago, stealingisacrime said:

The boat I race on some has BW over VC offshore and it is fine.  Last season was the first. 

Canton, Ma? Which boat?

[Meat Wad 570]

Too my understanding Black Widow is, an in the water only type paint. NO keeping the boat out of the water. Too bad because it sounds like a nice paint. I hope the make an ablative version soon.

Anyone seriously racing that does not remove their last bottom painting before the new bottom???
Is making a big mistake.

Rubbing is racing

[Will1073 29]

Wondering if I should make the switch from VC17... 

Like the colour and like the fact that it can be polished up. VC17 is the race bottom of choice up here though and it makes the slime really easy to wipe off.

[ryley 425]

29 minutes ago, Will1073 said:

Wondering if I should make the switch from VC17... 

Like the colour and like the fact that it can be polished up. VC17 is the race bottom of choice up here though and it makes the slime really easy to wipe off.

it's worth calling or writing to Pettit to find out how it's going to do in fresh/brackish water. You'll need to remove all of the VC17 to put black widow on, so if the VC17 is working for you, it might not be worth the switch, at least until you need to do a complete bottom job.

[ryley 425]

6 hours ago, stealingisacrime said:

The boat I race on some has BW over VC offshore and it is fine.  Last season was the first. 

Same as me. Murph, you're welcome to come over and see it yourself if you want.

[Raked Aft\\ 113]

can you make BW grey by adding some white tint?

  

[Max Rockatansky 479]

Anything you add to any bottom paint may well compromise, at least to some degree, its effectiveness.

[Lex Teredo 268]

On ‎3‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 5:44 PM, ryley said:

I had to call them to find out that BW is compatible with Offshore, but not with 17.

They were funny about Trinidad Pro over BaltoPlate as well with only one of their several compatibility charts showing it as okay, and I had to ask a few people about it, including yardies who dive bottoms locally, a couple guys who paint and Gouv.  Rough scuff then spray or roll tip was the answer.  Haven't had any peeling/paint blister problems.  Going to stick with Trinidad (the older formulation with Irigarol) due to the slime issues in the Chesapeake.  Doesn't quite burnish to a coppery sheen but does get very smooth , including as the bottom cleaner hits it with a scrubby pad. 

[mward 0]

On 3/13/2018 at 5:15 PM, Meat Wad said:

Too my understanding Black Widow is, an in the water only type paint. NO keeping the boat out of the water. Too bad because it sounds like a nice paint. I hope the make an ablative version soon.

You can haul and relaunch repeatedly with BW.  My boat goes in and out a lot and stays on the trailer for extended periods.  It's one of the paints Pettit recommended for that use case.  Vivid or BW.  

[Mike in CT 15]

On 10/18/2017 at 11:04 AM, ryley said:

I've been a longtime user of VC Offshore through the last 8 years and two boats. This year, since I couldn't get VC Offshore in a small can and I only needed to touch up some spots, I bought a quart of Black Widow since it's compatible with overcoating the VC. It went on so nicely, I ended up buying some more and putting a full coat on the whole bottom and two coats along the waterline and on the keel. I clean my own boat bottom, and last year after about July I was diving weekly to get hard growth off the VC. This year, I've been in every 2-3 weeks to wipe the slime off the black widow. It shows no signs of hard growth on it anywhere, and even the usual grass that grows at the waterline level has been minimal and has scrubbed off easily. We didn't get a chance to do much burnishing this year but the bottom has definitely been fast and easy to maintain in Boston Harbor conditions.

How much paint did you use for the Columbia? Can you get two coats out of a gallon?

My plan is to spray it on the J/92 this season. 

[ryley 425]

Mike,

I'm pretty sure I'll get two full coats on the columbia out of a gallon. I'll let you know for sure on Saturday  I haven't painted the keel yet, but that should go pretty quickly and not use much. I'm using a 1/4" nap on the bottom and it seems to be the right coverage. Here's what it looks like after 1 coat.

https://imgur.com/a/u5dJew8

[Mike in CT 15]

Cool, let me know if you are happy with how it rolls on. I plan to spray it but would prefer to roll if goes on smooth. much less prep and mess with rolling. 

[ryley 425]

rolling has been great with the 1/4" nap roller. The big thing is that it takes forever to mix the paint. I tried to have it shaken and they crushed the bottom of the can. I just followed their directions and poured off the top 3rd, mixed until it was uniform, and then poured it back in and finished mixing. Still, it took about 10 minutes with a mixer on a cordless drill to get it uniform.  Once it was, though, it rolls on nice. you get a lot of coverage and very little splatter. I'm taking them at their word to wait at least 48 hours before burnishing. it seems to dry very hard, so it'll be interesting to see how easy it is to burnish it out. Spraying would definitely be smoother, but I'm pretty impressed with how well it levels.

[stealingisacrime 15]

Second season and I helped the owner burnish the bottom last weekend - looks terrific is slicker than VC offshore.  

Ok, I drank beer, talked shit and burnished along the waterline while he did the rest of the hull.  

Moral support = check plus, actual work = check minus.

[ryley 425]

Mike,

I got the 2nd coat on this weekend everywhere except my keel repair area and where the stands are. I have plenty left to do those areas with two coats probably. Coverage seems to be really good with the 1/4" rollers. I'm going to give it a couple days before I try burnishing.

[Mike in CT 15]

great, thanks! I'll be taking a shot at it this weekend. 

[Meat Wad 570]

On 5/2/2018 at 7:32 PM, mward said:

You can haul and relaunch repeatedly with BW.  My boat goes in and out a lot and stays on the trailer for extended periods.  It's one of the paints Pettit recommended for that use case.  Vivid or BW.  

Typically the product description says something about this. I could not find anything and have not got an answer from Pettit Tech.

[mward 0]

14 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

Typically the product description says something about this. I could not find anything and have not got an answer from Pettit Tech.

Hit them up on Facebook, they're quicker to answer there.  This is what I sent them:

Hey Pettit, I have a question. I have a 26' boat that is currently on a trailer. When it is launched it'll probably spend 6 months in fresh water, but then it will likely end up in salt water a few weeks at a time, and on the trailer in between, or back in fresh water. Salt water is gulf/florida/bahamas. Fresh water will be very cold rocky mountain lake water. Also I don't want to launch it immediately after painting. What bottom paint do you recommend?

This is what I got back:  

Vivid or Black Widow would be great options for you. Hold up well to trailering and have an indefinite launch time.

[ryley 425]

31 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

Typically the product description says something about this. I could not find anything and have not got an answer from Pettit Tech.

Quote

Black Widow is the slickest, fastest, ultra-smooth, burnishable racing finish available. Its powerful dual biocides provide multi-season protection in all waters. Black Widow is easily applied by roller, brush, or spray and is easily burnishable to a metallic “gun-metal” shine. Black Widow makes an excellent paint for the bottom of any boat where speed is the number one priority, including racing sailboats, and high performance offshore powerboats. Black Widow contains four strong slickening agents: Molybdenum Disulfide, PTFE, Graphite and Silicon.

 

[Left Shift 2,768]

1 hour ago, ryley said:

 

Plus, for just a few extra bucks per gallon, Scarlett Johansen will come out and help burnish.

[ryley 425]

I don't think I have that many boat bucks.

 

[Goblew 5]

On 5/3/2018 at 1:20 PM, stealingisacrime said:

Second season and I helped the owner burnish the bottom last weekend - looks terrific is slicker than VC offshore.  

Ok, I drank beer, talked shit and burnished along the waterline while he did the rest of the hull.  

Moral support = check plus, actual work = check minus.

Did you sand per instructions?  hand sand or machine?   I've got my 3 coats on keel and rudder and need to burnish.

[Varan 1,943]

This may be weird and not applicable, but you can burnish thin paints like VC17 with an electric buffer and wool pad. You can see your reflection when finished. Environmentally, well let's not think about that. 

[ryley 425]

On 5/8/2018 at 10:22 PM, Varan said:

This may be weird and not applicable, but you can burnish thin paints like VC17 with an electric buffer and wool pad. You can see your reflection when finished. Environmentally, well let's not think about that. 

if you watch the video I posted, they do exactly that. They recommend meguiar's diamond cut. I don't think I'm going to get quite so fussy this year. I'm just happy to have enough warm days to paint

Here's a J111 finishing off their bottom:

[kent_island_sailor 3,552]

On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 7:55 PM, Left Shift said:

So, Pettit has come out with a competitor to Baltoplate.  20 years later.  

Except Baltoplate was barnacle food.

[Left Shift 2,768]

44 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Except Baltoplate was barnacle food.

Paint of choice in the PNW.  Not so much in Miami, I suspect.  

Kent Island?  Who knows.

[kent_island_sailor 3,552]

I quit hauling out yearly after a I realized I had to clean the bottom constantly with either new or old Baltoplate, so why not save $$$

[kinardly 191]

Not to hijack, but........how's BW stack up in So Cal, say against Proline 1088? Suspect it's probably a little easier to apply (less critical stirring procedure), maybe burnishes to a faster surface but does it lend itself to a 3-4 wk cleaning interval or require more frequent? 

Also, can a good yard foreman tell what kind of paint is already on a boat for compatibility purposes? 

[Mike in CT 15]

when burnishing with bronze wool, is that done wet or dry?

[ryley 425]

16 minutes ago, Mike in CT said:

when burnishing with bronze wool, is that done wet or dry?

Mike, you should ask that question on the Pettit Facebook page. they answer pretty quick there. 

[Meat Wad 570]

On 5/8/2018 at 2:02 PM, Left Shift said:

Plus, for just a few extra bucks per gallon, Scarlett Johansen will come out and help burnish.

I would like that, I need help reaching the waterline.

 

[ryley 425]

On 5/11/2018 at 7:39 AM, Mike in CT said:

when burnishing with bronze wool, is that done wet or dry?

btw, I used a 1000grit pad on a festool 125 on the lowest DA setting dry from the bow to the keel and the keel itself. I probably should have started with the 500 grit to get more of the high spots off first, but it feels pretty good. The one video I've seen of a guy doing it used a spray bottle and a festool, but that was more mess than I thought the boatyard would allow.

[George Dewey 44]

I'm in the process of doing a bottom job. Barrier coat is Interprotect 2000e and paint will be Black Widow. I'm trying to figure out how to sand the barrier coat after it's all done to prepare for the paint. The 2000e instructions say 

Quote

 

When applying vinyl antifoulings such as VC Offshore and Baltoplate to Interprotect, apply an extra coat and allow epoxy to cure overnight then sand with 80 grit paper to avoid wrinkling. When overcoating with VC 17m or VC 17m Extra allow Interprotect 2000e to dry for 24 - 36 hours, then sand with 180-220 grit sand paper.

 

So I'm trying to understand if Black Widow is a vinyl based paint. In this thread, it is said that BW is compatible with VC Offshore and Baltoplate, which implies that it is vinyl based. Is that true, in which case the post barrier coat sanding should be with 80 grit?  Seems like it would quickly eat through the barrier coat, but of that's the thing to do so be it.

Also, what do you guys do about jack stands? How long before its safe to move them onto previously painted part of the hull to paint where they were overing?

 

[ryley 425]

On 5/10/2019 at 10:59 PM, George Dewey said:

I'm in the process of doing a bottom job. Barrier coat is Interprotect 2000e and paint will be Black Widow. I'm trying to figure out how to sand the barrier coat after it's all done to prepare for the paint. The 2000e instructions say 

So I'm trying to understand if Black Widow is a vinyl based paint. In this thread, it is said that BW is compatible with VC Offshore and Baltoplate, which implies that it is vinyl based. Is that true, in which case the post barrier coat sanding should be with 80 grit?  Seems like it would quickly eat through the barrier coat, but of that's the thing to do so be it.

Also, what do you guys do about jack stands? How long before its safe to move them onto previously painted part of the hull to paint where they were overing?

 

Black Widow contains PTFE which is a vinyl polymer.  you can probably get away with sanding the barrier coat with 120. I'd follow the re-coat times as far as the jackstand question, so about 6 hours at 70 degrees.

[Overbored 21]

Black Widow is a hard bottom paint but not for several days.  When doing my rudders off the boat I found  that you could sand the next day but it was very easy to mark into the paint , it was at least 3 days before it got hard so it would not get marked up by setting it on the wood bench. Jack stands I would wait a few days before moving and don't sand where you are going to move them to until launch so you will be sanding off any imprint from the stand. do thin the paint as per the instructions if you don't you will not be happy with the finish. best finish is with spraying.  like most bottom paint it is messy but being black it seems to get on every thing even things you did not know you touched. sprayed with HVLP gun with a 2.3 tip and not much overspray but you do need a good respirator. it stinks  used Pettit protect high build and it is way better then the 2000 stuff . sands very easy. no clogging of paper only requires two coats.. use 80 grit to sand before the BW, covers 80 grit scratches up very easy, even covers up the primer if you leave a little orange peel where you don't want to sand to much.  the BW sands to a very fine finish but over all was one of the most difficult  paints I have applied, correct thinning of the paint is critical and don't even look at the can of BW with out wearing protection equipment and double gloves. 

[ryley 425]

I've rolled it for 3 years with 3/16" nap rollers and get perfectly good coverage without thinning, overspray, or getting it where it shouldn't go. Of course it's only a 32' boat with a pretty flat bottom so your mileage may vary. Overbored is right though that it takes a while for the paint to fully harden, although I've never experienced 3 days to get to that point. I find after rolling it burnishes pretty well. But it does dry HARD and you'll have to move through the grits a lot more than you do with something like VC-Offshore.

Overbored is probably right that the best result will be from spraying, but you *can* get good results from rolling as well. and yeah, double-gloves, respirator, and when you think you've got it properly mixed, mix it more.

[billy backstay 972]

On 10/9/2017 at 7:19 PM, fucket said:

A fleetmate put it on before this past season in Lake Michigan. In the end, they didn't have enough thickness to burnish, so it was just sanded to 1000 grit. Almost zero growth during the season.

Boat just came out of the water so we are all pretty interested in taking a look at it on the hard.

 

I remember my boss getting some pretty hard to find 1500 grit from Japan to use on the leading edge of the keel and rudder.  Seemed silly, since the ablative paint shed itself in larger particles....

[Overbored 21]

I found that rolling does work but there is to much orange peel and a lot of sanding. when applying it on a warm dry day it dries quickly and you need to apply and then move on. with a bit of brushing thinner it flows out better . when sprayed it was wet 400 then 600 and done. I found that it stayed soft for the first three days and if set on a hard bench it would get an impression in the paint from where it touched the bench, after that it was very hard. if on a hull you would not see this problem unless you move the stands to early. you need a power mixing blade. it does take a long time to mix and if sprayed you do need to use latex paint strainer. it dries on the can and you will get dried chunks in the paint if not careful

[Meat Wad 570]

8 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

I remember my boss getting some pretty hard to find 1500 grit from Japan to use on the leading edge of the keel and rudder.  Seemed silly, since the ablative paint shed itself in larger particles....

I'm trying to decide if I want to keep my boat in the water and go with the Petit Black Widow or just go with what I had before, Sea Hawk Cukote. We have several boats in the area with the Sea Hawk and it does work good. I rolled the bottom with foam rollers and got a nice bottom. 600 in the water and it was like glass. The leading edges and bow wore thin first. Keeping the boat in the water makes it much easier to visit and go out. But without a commitment of 4 that can sail, I cannot go out anyway.

Or should I seriously try to sell it? It's a tough decision to shift from what you done your whole life.

[Left Shift 2,768]

12 minutes ago, Overbored said:

I found that rolling does work but there is to much orange peel and a lot of sanding. when applying it on a warm dry day it dries quickly and you need to apply and then move on. with a bit of brushing thinner it flows out better . when sprayed it was wet 400 then 600 and done. I found that it stayed soft for the first three days and if set on a hard bench it would get an impression in the paint from where it touched the bench, after that it was very hard. if on a hull you would not see this problem unless you move the stands to early. you need a power mixing blade. it does take a long time to mix and if sprayed you do need to use latex paint strainer. it dries on the can and you will get dried chunks in the paint if not careful

Good advice and all, but I'm guessing that Overbored is just t.s.eliot's internet personna.

[George Dewey 44]

Great info everyone, thanks very much. I'm outdoors with other boats all around, so I won't be spraying. We have had really shitty weather, lots of cold and rain, so this project is way behind. I just started the barrier coat two days ago, and more rain has stopped me. Black Widow seems like I'll need to wait three days to move the jack stands and then paint and wait three more days. Maybe I should look at Baltoplate, would that be ready more quickly?

[Alex W 242]

My boat was sprayed outside in a crowded yard for both barrier coat and paint.  The yard did the work and tented the boat (just plastic sheet from the gunwales down), that prep work didn't seem like it was too involved.  I used Baltoplate not BW.  It is just well know here and Black Widow isn't, and I wasn't ready to be the guinea pig.

The final finish was really smooth with spray and seems like it made the final sanding go much more quickly, so I'd suggest spray if possible.

They bumped the stands and took care of the area where the stands were, then did a final standing of the new stand location when the boat was hanging in the slings just before launch.

 

[ryley 425]

53 minutes ago, George Dewey said:

Great info everyone, thanks very much. I'm outdoors with other boats all around, so I won't be spraying. We have had really shitty weather, lots of cold and rain, so this project is way behind. I just started the barrier coat two days ago, and more rain has stopped me. Black Widow seems like I'll need to wait three days to move the jack stands and then paint and wait three more days. Maybe I should look at Baltoplate, would that be ready more quickly?

I don't think you'll have to wait 3 days if you roll it. you can go to baltoplate/vc-offshore, but then you're not getting any real antifouling protection, which you definitely get with BW.

I painted the bottom on my boat Saturday - started at 10 in the morning in about 70 degree weather. it took about an hour to get the whole bottom and the keel done. At 4:30, a crane truck showed up to put my boat back on top of my keel. The forward straps left some marks in the paint at the waterline level, the aft straps left no marks at all. the forward marks will sand right out and then I'll touch up. I think you'll be fine if you leave it for a day before you move the stands.

[doghouse 124]

Baltoplate is still the only true racing bottom product if you want to stay in the water.

[Meat Wad 570]

20 hours ago, doghouse said:

Baltoplate is still the only true racing bottom product if you want to stay in the water.

Unfortunately, it is not available in Komifornia..It must have a high Copper content or VOC.

From the Interlux site.

Quote

VC Offshore Baltoplate is a specialized hard antifouling for the dedicated racing or high performance boat, combining antifouling protection with the smoothness and low friction of a racing finish. For use on fiberglass, wood and primed metals (except aluminum), with proven performance on winning boats.

Not for use in California

I checked the option for Trailer/Rack Storage and Interlux still says that Baltoplate is good?