Papaji

Aluminium Centerboard 46-52ft blue water go anywhere

Recommended Posts

A thing of beauty is a joy forever.

PS. I think Keaton in that role was brilliant.

Edited by Ishmael
paraquat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think this has been posted previously... also don't think the ad is current - I was on board talking to Mr Meffre yesterday. He bought the boat back, and plans on doing a little more adventuring (he's recently been to Cape Horne a couple of times as well as Antarctica)... though you never know when he'll be ready to pass her into someone else's care. Granted she's bigger than 52', and not as pretty as some of the other vessels, but she'll go anywhere! http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/36377 2003 Joubert Custom Aluminium Centreboard Yacht located in Outside United States for sale

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, ALL@SEA said:

I don't think this has been posted previously... also don't think the ad is current - I was on board talking to Mr Meffre yesterday. He bought the boat back, and plans on doing a little more adventuring (he's recently been to Cape Horne a couple of times as well as Antarctica)... though you never know when he'll be ready to pass her into someone else's care. Granted she's bigger than 52', and not as pretty as some of the other vessels, but she'll go anywhere! http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/36377 2003 Joubert Custom Aluminium Centreboard Yacht located in Outside United States for sale

We were down Con Dock admiring that boat & chatting to the owner last night. It's an impressive chunk of aluminium and that big dagger board is great for shoal waters. We didn't ask to look inside so I don't know what effect it has on the interior layout. Beamy enough so probably not a lot.

FKT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ALL@SEA said:

I don't think this has been posted previously... also don't think the ad is current - I was on board talking to Mr Meffre yesterday. He bought the boat back, and plans on doing a little more adventuring (he's recently been to Cape Horne a couple of times as well as Antarctica)... though you never know when he'll be ready to pass her into someone else's care. Granted she's bigger than 52', and not as pretty as some of the other vessels, but she'll go anywhere! http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/36377 2003 Joubert Custom Aluminium Centreboard Yacht located in Outside United States for sale

It's the house! Its like it wasn't designed at all and somebody just fabbed something. It does look like the plan either, not that that looked very good.  And the listing says centerboard but the plan shows daggerboard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I wasn't going to be too picky with the center/dagger definition, but she's clearly a dagger. He sails everywhere on auto pilot, the house does give excellent vision fwd and of sails. She's very simple for her size, and he says that he generally sails at 7-8 knots (though she'll surf once the sea gets up). I did get a video on my phone of the interior, but can't figure out how to export it. She's well finished and comfortable though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/5/2018 at 11:55 PM, ALL@SEA said:

I don't think this has been posted previously... also don't think the ad is current - I was on board talking to Mr Meffre yesterday. He bought the boat back, and plans on doing a little more adventuring (he's recently been to Cape Horne a couple of times as well as Antarctica)... though you never know when he'll be ready to pass her into someone else's care. Granted she's bigger than 52', and not as pretty as some of the other vessels, but she'll go anywhere! http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/36377 2003 Joubert Custom Aluminium Centreboard Yacht located in Outside United States for sale

Designed by Joubert apparently. He was a top architect able to draw competitive racing boats as well as very good cruising boats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did note the designer, she's not just put together by an amateur by eye. Form follows function. Not graceful, but not ugly. She does have a little sheer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Panoramix said:

Designed by Joubert apparently. He was a top architect able to draw competitive racing boats as well as very good cruising boats.

Is he dead now? Reason I ask is, the owner said the designer had died so now he could alter the rudder he'd never liked without listening to the screams from the designer.

Personally I like a hull with more sheer but that boat is really nicely put together. I've seen her come & go from Hobart for many years now. Something around 12 to 15m would be nice as a personal toy.

FKT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/01/2018 at 12:19 AM, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Is he dead now? Reason I ask is, the owner said the designer had died so now he could alter the rudder he'd never liked without listening to the screams from the designer.

Personally I like a hull with more sheer but that boat is really nicely put together. I've seen her come & go from Hobart for many years now. Something around 12 to 15m would be nice as a personal toy.

FKT

He passed away about a year ago. I've sailed on a few of his designs and always like the way they behaved, always very predictable. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/6/2017 at 9:11 PM, Papaji said:

agreed, but anchorage would be the very very very last consideration on the subject. More interesting is the remark if the technology is indeed well proven. In most of those recent expedition yachts they incorporate the centerboard and not the swing keel, but when I read up on it I'm somewhat at a loss why that choice is made? The swing keel seems like a good alternative since it can have more weight lower? more weight on the lowest means more stability and security in a pinch right? When you look at the JFA54 above the ability to land the boat on the dry is a nonissue. 

When you come to a certain size boat I'm sure that the weight of the keel can be compensated in the hull. So would the answer be on the technical issues? Would a centerboard be more reliable than the swing keel in terms of durability, reliability etc?

Anybody?

So, just about half a year later...

The case with the allures 45.9 seems to be that the choice is determined by performance. The swing keel brings weight lower but most importantly, much less of it. The overall displacement is considerably lower but the attained righting moment, according to the manufacturer at least, is similar to the CB version.  So downsides of the swing keel, in this case, would be the increased loads and more complicated nature of the entire setup, possibly bumpier ride and perhaps lesser comfort at anchor too. And perhaps most importantly, one couldn't pull the keel in and retain the stability. To my understanding, this is, if not a tactic, at least an option in very foul conditions and would be done to avoid broaches or to allow the boat to slide if hit by a wave beam on. But it would be slightly faster. To me, it seems like a stupid trade in a boat designed for extended cruising. But then again, that big cockpit is optimized for lounging in the sun too, so I'd say allures is not even aiming for an exploration boat for high latitudes, but one that can be used to anchor in nicest parts of the lagoon. Which is fair play. I do most of my sailing in 60+ degrees north and would argue that sailing higher latitudes is fucking stupid if you have the option not to... That said, if I hit the lottery, I'd be placing an order for the boreal 47. 

A different approach is the one taken by southerly in their plastic boats. They have massive swing keels in a massive keel box and still have all an impressive AVS even with the swing keel up. And it can be grounded too. Downside is that it's even more complicated and to my understanding, the entire keel box thingy has to be overhauled every 7-8 years for a price higher than I'd personally be willing to ever spend on a car...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/31/2017 at 10:53 PM, Papaji said:

Hi! I haven't come across any of these boats yet here in Holland, but from looking at the specs reviews pictures and videos I had come to somewhat the same conclusions/notions that you mentioned. I do think that Garcia is quite a good shipyard and that they will take their design of the exploration to the next level. The v2 is already somewhat better, but I don't think the design will last and will transform into something more appealing somehow.

The Boreal gives a somewhat unfinished impression? But even with that feeling I have about the boat (and I don't like the looks like i do the futuna) all the specs are quite impressive. 

Since you are obviously at least interested in these types of boats, do you have any info on others (maybe one-offs) out there that come anywhere near this kind of requirement list? And do you have any info about the Futuna? When I look at their site and when I google that boat it seems to me only one has been made, and that is the one now for sale. It looks like a pet project for a wealthy swiss guy who is now finished playing with his toy.

I will probably end op getting in touch with the futuna shipyard and pick their brains about the one for sail and their stance towards the build of a similar vessel but slightly shorter. A futuna explorer 47 sound good to me. When I delete some of the fancy gadgets like the carbon mast and boom the swiss guy put onto his boat, it might even become economically viable. 

Did you ever get in touch w Futuna about building a downsized version of their 54?  I’m similarly impressed w the design but it’s too big for me. I’ve sent them several emails and a message on their Facebook page, all unanswered. Are they even still in business?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know I'm pretty late to this discussion, but I would like to respond. 

I've recently rediscovered a love for sailing and have infected my wife as well. We are currently looking for a vessel to help us achieve our dream of a circumnavigation. I have looked longingly at the SV Seal, SV Eva, and the SV Urchin. I did contact Ed Joy about another sister ship with a few modifications to the others (Good Hope 56). After a few emails, I decided that the cost of a custom build was too much for our budget. Since then we have looked into boats in the same general category. The Boreal 47 is at the top of our list. We (wife and I) have taken Steve's advice and looked at where we want to go in regards to the boat we will choose. 

I too would value any additional advice for  an expedition sailboat. 

We plan to tackle the Northwest Passage, Cape Horn to starboard, and the French canal systems.

Thanks in advance for advice and encouragement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Pelagic Nomad said:

We plan to tackle the Northwest Passage, Cape Horn to starboard, and the French canal systems.

Horn to starboard is an upwind passage.  Centreboarders do not excel upwind

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Pelagic Nomad said:

I know I'm pretty late to this discussion, but I would like to respond. 

I've recently rediscovered a love for sailing and have infected my wife as well. We are currently looking for a vessel to help us achieve our dream of a circumnavigation. I have looked longingly at the SV Seal, SV Eva, and the SV Urchin. I did contact Ed Joy about another sister ship with a few modifications to the others (Good Hope 56). After a few emails, I decided that the cost of a custom build was too much for our budget. Since then we have looked into boats in the same general category. The Boreal 47 is at the top of our list. We (wife and I) have taken Steve's advice and looked at where we want to go in regards to the boat we will choose. 

I too would value any additional advice for  an expedition sailboat. 

We plan to tackle the Northwest Passage, Cape Horn to starboard, and the French canal systems.

Thanks in advance for advice and encouragement.

Hi!

Welcome aboard the chase! I talked to Ed also, and although his designs stand out same like you I'm not into a new build. The market is very thin when it comes to the kind of boat we look for, but there has recently been a new one entering the market. It's a bit above my size and exceeds my requirements, but it may be of interest to you. It would definitely serve your purpose!

https://nl.yachtworld.com/boten/2003/Custom-chatam-60-3215232/country.frankrijk

 

Untitled.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/6/2017 at 1:05 AM, Papaji said:

You would have the advantage of lesser draft but miss a main advantage I would like to have/decisive choice for the centerboard is the ability to beach/dry fall the boat. If that requirement were to go, I would probably revert to a full s-keeled hull

I understand.

271SAIL.jpg

271GAP.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/29/2017 at 8:16 PM, Papaji said:

Hi, I just joined your forum and am hoping to find some members that have experience or know of a certain type of boat that may or may not be out there. I have been looking for a new floater for a circumnavigation that would be comfortably handling high latitude waters. Here is my dilemma: Just recently I've been caught off guard by a modern design boat. Having always sailed true classics I never really  paid attention to the newer designs that are always swamping the market, so I was not expecting to be drawn to the specs of the Futuna explorer 54. http://nl.yachtworld.com/boten/2015/Futuna-54-Explorer-3077058/country.frankrijk#.WfZPVmi3yUk.

There is not much that I don't like about the boat, apart from its size (and price tag). It made me look further for similar boats and came across the Boreal 47 http://www.boreal-yachts.com/boreal-modele/le-boreal-47/?lang=en  and Garcia exploration boats. https://www.sailmagazine.com/boats/garcia-exploration-45-jimmy-cornells-ideal-boat Neither of those caught my fancy as the Futuna did. 

When I looked further into the Futuna shipyard, it looks like they only built one expedition 54 and that one is now for sale with a ridiculous pricetag of no less than 690k euro ex VAT. Granted the boat has a carbon boom and mast, but who would want such a thing on a boat he plans to circumnavigate? You will never be able to make any kind of repair on that.

There is so much out there and I have not kept watch on the market for many years. So I am wondering if anybody knows of any boats that are similar in specs and design like the futuna above? Ideally it would be an aluminium centerboard 46-52ft.  I would not mind finding an older boat and upgrading to somewhat match the specs of the Futuna explorer. 

Any thoughts ideas and links are much appreciated!!

6201853_20170412023456284_1_XLARGE.jpg

 

The Futuna 54 is somewhat a case of loving/hating. I do like it from outside - despite the unnecessary carbon fiber show off. Inside of them, the Pilot House, pilot position etc is great but it seems the rest of the boat (galey, mess table and main bedroom) quite small for a 54' boat ............

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ishmael.

Aluminum hull. Paint or no paint on topsides. Otherwise, color is your choice. Advice is to keep the deck color on the pale side.

240-04.jpg

BWMODI.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tanton Y_M said:

Ishmael.

Aluminum hull. Paint or no paint on topsides. Otherwise, color is your choice. Advice is to keep the deck color on the pale side.

240-04.jpg

BWMODI.JPG

Thank you. I could like it a lot in navy blue. More boats need decent windows on the outside world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Thank you. I could like it a lot in navy blue. More boats need decent windows on the outside world.

NFW would I want those windows. They look like the sort of thing a pox doctor or pimp would fit to his tricked out raised F350.....

FKT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

NFW would I want those windows. They look like the sort of thing a pox doctor or pimp would fit to his tricked out raised F350.....

FKT

What’s a “pox doctor”?  Ok, I’m getting that it’s a Tassie term. :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No-nonsense centerboarder.

 

Horacio Ezcurra design.

 

Photo 1: Cape Horn

Photo 2: Punta del Este (Uruguay)

634E242C-9118-4922-94B9-84860BE8E674.jpeg

949E5F2F-9D0D-4435-8211-C5D2E22843D1.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, plenamar said:

No-nonsense centerboarder.

Horacio Ezcurra design.

Photo 1: Cape Horn

Photo 2: Punta del Este (Uruguay)

634E242C-9118-4922-94B9-84860BE8E674.jpeg

949E5F2F-9D0D-4435-8211-C5D2E22843D1.jpeg

Actually, I do see a bit of nonsense in the second pic.  Those picnic benches in the cockpit.  (Although it might be fun to have your pic taken while sitting on one, cigarette in mouth and glass of wine in hand, legs crossed, with the Horn in the background... :-) :-) )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My reaction as well. However, think about sitting on a steel cockpit seat in wet and frigid conditions. That's when a wooden park bench doesn't seem like a bad idea.

48' Ocean Cruiser

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Starkindler said:

My reaction as well. However, think about sitting on a steel cockpit seat in wet and frigid conditions. That's when a wooden park bench doesn't seem like a bad idea.

48' Ocean Cruiser

Easy solution! :-). (My cockpit)

It’s the arm tests that are a bit of a funny look, but whatever.  They look comfy.

343D783F-5C22-49EC-A2C2-3F9BBED04AD8.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your cockpit looks much safer when you think of those big cold waves sweeping down the side deck and the -20C winds are howling!! Of course, that's when you simply take a peek out of the observation dome.

Whose design? Looks good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Starkindler said:

Your cockpit looks much safer when you think of those big cold waves sweeping down the side deck and the -20C winds are howling!! Of course, that's when you simply take a peek out of the observation dome.

Whose design? Looks good.

Gilbert Caroff design.  Far from the requirements outlined by the OP of this thread, but we’re just temporarily hijacking it :-). 
 

I hope to one day bring this boat to high(er) latitudes, but -20 sailing I don’t want to experience!! :-). (Maybe just living aboard at that temp over winter!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Gilbert Caroff design

never heard of him before.  turns out there are a few built/for sale in QC/NFLD including this 47 with Iqualuit as a home port!!!!!

4512596_20160214113600178_1_XLARGE.jpg&w=600&h=337&t=1527279658000

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, chester said:

never heard of him before.  turns out there are a few built/for sale in QC/NFLD including this 47 with Iqualuit as a home port!!!!!

4512596_20160214113600178_1_XLARGE.jpg&w=600&h=337&t=1527279658000

 

Caroff is well known in France for his aluminum and steel designs.  Now retired.

That’s a cool and very unusual hailing port!  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Caroff is well known in France for his aluminum and steel designs.  Now retired.

That’s a cool cold and very unusual hailing port!  

:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cockpit benches are not my cup of tea. But: they open an enormous space under the cockpit for saloon. This boat has an inside helm station for bad weather. 

23 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Actually, I do see a bit of nonsense in the second pic.  Those picnic benches in the cockpit.  (Although it might be fun to have your pic taken while sitting on one, cigarette in mouth and glass of wine in hand, legs crossed, with the Horn in the background... :-) :-) )

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is that extra blue furled sail just in front of the mast ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The pics I posted were apparently of a later boat. Here is a pic of Mago del Sur. I believe I saw that boat down in the Beagle Channel where it offers charter trips to Antarctica.

Image result for Mago del Sur

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/5/2017 at 4:49 AM, Mazdaz said:

Google JFA 54 French custom build by highly regarded yard looks good as well

New JFA 70ft aluminum yacht - twin rudders.., swinging keel. Carbon deck

probably too "Euro" for this audience.., but I like it.

I did a trans-atlantic on a JFA aluminum yacht many years ago - a really well built boat.., and it was a joy to sail

https://www.jfa-yachts.com/en/Yachts/fc2-custom-monohull-70/

 

FC2-70-voilier-custom-jfa-yachts-fast-cr

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, plenamar said:
On 11/19/2019 at 2:30 PM, Starkindler said:

48' Ocean Cruiser

CNQ ??

I'm guessing he's peeing, actually.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, us7070 said:

New JFA 70ft aluminum yacht - twin rudders.., swinging keel. Carbon deck

probably too "Euro" for this audience.., but I like it.

I did a trans-atlantic on a JFA aluminum yacht many years ago - a really well built boat.., and it was a joy to sail

https://www.jfa-yachts.com/en/Yachts/fc2-custom-monohull-70/

 

FC2-70-voilier-custom-jfa-yachts-fast-cr

JFAs are really "yachts" as opposed to boats, well built fitted with luxury items and with the price to match.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I googled JFA 54 French custom as mentioned above in this thread, but only found 20 years old boats. Sounds like JFA doesn't make anything below 70 feet or rather 100 feet these days ? Great looking boat this JFA 70, but not really in the OP specs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, sierramike said:

I googled JFA 54 French custom as mentioned above in this thread, but only found 20 years old boats. Sounds like JFA doesn't make anything below 70 feet or rather 100 feet these days ? Great looking boat this JFA 70, but not really in the OP specs

They are builders of custom yachts, if you ask nicely may be they can build another one!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can always ask but i don't believe so, they make huge motor superyachts !

Looking for this 54 ft boat, i found another one : https://www.enduro54.com

also not mentioned earlier on this thread, the Adventure 55 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKZpoXPG8RY

a real nice one with interiors made by former Najad employees in Sweden : pure craftmanship !

a lifting keel though, not a centerboard like on this enduro54

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know this was mentioned previously, but it's interesting hearing Mr Goss' experience. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s funny.  I spent a decade dreaming of an exploration style sailboat with a pilot house or hard dodger (like amel) but ended up with a traditional styles 52’ aluminum cutter with a centerboard and an open aft cockpit.   While I feel envious of the deck salon Nav stations (few have steering), I must admit that I like having a pretty boat.  When I look at my boat, my eyes get happy.  That does not happen when I look at a more practical design like the Garcia or others in the thread.
 

The thing is that her center of gravity is very low. She has a 40% ballast ratio; she has adequate overhangs and she rides like a dream.  We had 12’+ quartering seas on a short interval on a recent  trip to Maine (east /outside of Cape Cod) and she was super solid and comfortable.  I now believe that ride quality and center of gravity are super important and I’m not sure these explorers necessarily have a more comfortable motion  at sea than my ship.  Perhaps I may be wrong. YMMV.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/28/2017 at 11:43 PM, Ishmael said:

Wow, that is one beefy boat.

Especially, with an only Deck Length of only 37'.  The extra cost is only on the extension for the tender. Dam it. Hell of a boat for the length with an interior of a 45 footer .28.pdf

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Twisting the thread, and just wasting time Saturday morning.:

I was captivated by Pete Goss' video tour of his Garcia "Pearl".   His enthusiasm for the "Deriveur Integral" concept (unballasted centerboard) is infectious.  But I can't help but thinking that these type of boats must be terribly slow, especially in light air.  Tank like construction, small sail area, low righting moment...  Sort of like Dylan's new boat, but expensive.

What if you did everything you could to keep the  deriveur integral concept, but make it a good sailor-- how good of a SAIL boat could  you make?  Think full carbon hull and deck construction, short rotating carbon mast but with a 45% square top main, reaching struts,  lead ballast as low in the hull as possible, centralized chain locker (its a cruiser after all),  maybe a stainless bottom strake so it could take the bottom and sit upright...

Sort of a Carbon cutter idea-- use  modern race boat construction and design in the service of a decidedly non racing program.

M. Tanton should really give us a design cartoon to keep us entertained, is what I think.

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Vincent DePillis said:

What if you did everything you could to keep the  deriveur integral concept, but make it a good sailor-- how good of a SAIL boat could  you make?  Think full carbon hull and deck construction, short rotating carbon mast but with a 45% square top main, reaching struts,  lead ballast as low in the hull as possible, centralized chain locker (its a cruiser after all),  maybe a stainless bottom strake so it could take the bottom and sit upright...

As far as I can see, the tank-like construction is a key part of the concept, to reduce brittleness and achieve some ability to bounce of ice, with dents in the aluminium rather than fractures in a composite hull.

But the "Deriveur Integral" concept has obvious attractions for coastal cruising, where a carbon hull would make more sense.

Vincent's notion  comes from a different direction to a similar place to an idea I have been exploring, of a bigger and more advanced version of the Presto 30.  There are various ways of arranging this, but I was  looking at he same notion of centralised chain, and a hi-tec, hi-efficiency rig to lower the centre of effort ... tho in my case, I was thinking of two masts to keep it low.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Vincent DePillis said:

Twisting the thread, and just wasting time Saturday morning.:

I was captivated by Pete Goss' video tour of his Garcia "Pearl".   His enthusiasm for the "Deriveur Integral" concept (unballasted centerboard) is infectious.  But I can't help but thinking that these type of boats must be terribly slow, especially in light air.  Tank like construction, small sail area, low righting moment...  Sort of like Dylan's new boat, but expensive.

What if you did everything you could to keep the  deriveur integral concept, but make it a good sailor-- how good of a SAIL boat could  you make?  Think full carbon hull and deck construction, short rotating carbon mast but with a 45% square top main, reaching struts,  lead ballast as low in the hull as possible, centralized chain locker (its a cruiser after all),  maybe a stainless bottom strake so it could take the bottom and sit upright...

Sort of a Carbon cutter idea-- use  modern race boat construction and design in the service of a decidedly non racing program.

M. Tanton should really give us a design cartoon to keep us entertained, is what I think.

 

 

 

The boreal is more V shaped than older dériveur intégral to lower the CoG. That's part of the answer to their lack of righting moment. A Dériveur intégral has to be heavy to be safe thus I don't think that carbon fibre (except in the mast) will make a huge difference, sure it will be better but it will still be a heavy boat... You can have a dériveur intégral that performs relatively well in light airs but thant just means that you reef early. True with go fast specs, it will sail better but IMHO if you want to spend this kind of money and give away robustness, you might as well spec a Pogo style lifting keel and get a boat that is truly lively.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

IMHO if you want to spend this kind of money and give away robustness, you might as well spec a Pogo style lifting keel and get a boat that is truly lively.

In some ways the Pogo is compromise between older style lift keels and the dériveur intégral.  Instead of a huge lump of lead like most lift-keelers, the Pogo has a foil which is conceptually more like a heavily-ballasted centreboard: very deep board like a dériveur, but with a bit of ballast at the bottom.  If the Pogo keel actually retracted into the boat rather than sitting underneath, the analogy would be even closer

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now