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Wanted Missing VOR Skipper


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1 minute ago, random said:

You see there it goes again, same old shit, no recognition that not only does no one give a fuck what happened to you in the last 25 years sailing, but that is was not posted on the interweb during a highly publicised global event!  WTF is so hard to understand about the difference?

I'm not the one pretending to be offended on behalf of AB. She's signed up for Leg 3, so either she wasn't offended or they worked it out amongst themselves. Not my place to decide if she's supposed to be offended.

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3 minutes ago, random said:

It seems to me that that is exactly what is happening.

Witty knew that it would be challenging for him,  and you are correct,  he and his actions will do nothing to encourage women in sailing, that's what they are desperately trying to patch up.  Think about it, the floating bill-boards are no interested in selling more stuff to half the population (men) they want to sell to all the population.

No that is specifically not what is happening. Not filed by VOR or anyone associated with. 

The protest came from outside the workplace. Its really simple if you take the time to think about it

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10 minutes ago, random said:

You see there it goes again, same old shit, no recognition that not only does no one give a fuck what happened to you in the last 25 years sailing, but that is was not posted on the interweb during a highly publicised global event!  WTF is so hard to understand about the difference?

Bwaaaaa !!!!!

I find your use of expletives in the above post misandristic and highly offensive,  and I have been harassed. Where is the phone number for the International Court of Human Rights?

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2 minutes ago, random said:

I am not pretending to be offended, strawman response from privileged white men who are scared shitless that the last safe place they had has been invaded by females.

Neither does not matter whether AB was offended or not, totally besides the point.  It's about what Witt did.

For the record, I was not offended by what I saw.  For some reason I am finding difficult to put into words, Witt grosses me out, I find him hard to watch, cringe-inducing.

I started to watch the video again today after it was posted on the front page but only got a few seconds into it.  Something very fucking creepy about that guy and I could not bear to watch the frozen reaction of AB again, not to mention the sheepish expressions of the crew.  They sat there like school children, definitely uncomfortable, they instinctively knew it was out of order

 

so the truth comes out, you just hate David Witt. Thats fine, you dont have to like him, I dont either. But having the rule book respond to sexual harassment among the crew, is that really appropriate? Rule 69 is the same for professional crew as it is for amateur crews.  If so then I guess all race committees should go on youtube looking for videos of crew during races to make sure they arent offending anybody.

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7 minutes ago, random said:

I am not pretending to be offended, that's a strawman response from privileged white men who are scared shitless that the last safe place they had has been invaded by females.

Neither does it matter whether AB was offended or not, totally besides the point.  It's about what Witt did.

For the record, I was not offended by what I saw.  For some reason I am finding difficult to put into words, Witt grosses me out, I find him hard to watch, cringe-inducing.

I started to watch the video again today after it was posted on the front page but only got a few seconds into it.  Something very fucking creepy about that guy and I could not bear to watch the frozen reaction of AB again, not to mention the sheepish expressions of the crew.  They sat there like school children, definitely uncomfortable, they instinctively knew it was out of order

 

So, your panties are twisted in a knot because you don't like the skipper. Guess what? You're not on the boat, so no one cares. Except me...I care. Let me help you out...

 

IMG_0037.PNG

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33 minutes ago, random said:

They sat there like school children, definitely uncomfortable, they instinctively knew it was out of order

Had she had a good comeback it might have salvaged the situation.

Maybe instead of a "caption" contest we could have a "comeback" contest.

Any takers? I'll be first.

AB:  "Had you two any balls in the first place maybe we wouldn't be at the back of the fleet."

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Creeping "Male Feminism" is worse that I had thought, it's gone beyond most of Europe and the US lefties and has spread into yachting. Much like the scourge of socialism to economic vigor,  demanding "equal outcomes" and thus the special accommodation to attain them will quash the spirit of sports. The only defense will be to leap ahead and have the requisite number of athletes "identify" as female, and thus finesse the PC crowd with their own ideological rubric. I am truly surprised that it has not happened already. Given that "lauren" is from Kiwiland, (s)he might even be a sailor... 

 

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On my boat it tends to be my remarks that leave men speechless.

As a practicing doctor  I can tell you that the problem with Witts scrotum needed more than cream, I have something that is applied with a syringe and 6 inch needle that would probably keep him quiet for the rest of the trip.

OMG......I used the word "scrotum" . Sorry about that.

 

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Does it stop at videos on the internet, or can anyone who is offended by a joke on an offshore race turn the perpertrator in  for Rule 69?

Hell, how come we haven' t seen a Rule 69 for the 'hazing' those who cross the equator.

This has really gone too far. (and i won't even mention how far Riley just raised the bar for taking women offshore) 

 

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4 minutes ago, DarkHorse said:

Does it stop at videos on the internet, or can anyone who is offended by a joke on an offshore race turn the perpertrator in  for Rule 69?

Hell, how come we haven' t seen a Rule 69 for the 'hazing' those who cross the equator.

This has really gone too far. (and i won't even mention how far Riley just raised the bar for taking women offshore) 

 

Dawn couch-surfed at my pad for about 3 months, 30 years ago. She can give it and take it with any guy. I'm a bit surprised she got herself into this clusterfuck. 

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21 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Potter has confirmed it was Dawn Riley. [  .  .   . ]

I find this thread tendentious so haven't slogged through it and will limit my comment to one narrow avenue.

  • Where exactly has Riley publicly stated she found the vid offensive and has instigated (or collaborated on) a Rule 69 complaint with the VOR committee?  I can't find it, except for the above innuendo.
  • Riley is a spectator in this round, nothing more.  Spectators, as far as I know, have no standing in any protest committee actions, except possibly as witnesses. 
  • If this Rule 69 protest (apparently introduced by the Protest Committee without an official protester who's participating in the race) is upheld, what does it mean for me as an insignificant but sanctioned racing sailor?

What's swirling in my head is the situation where I gotta pee off the stern (or leeward shrouds) in a can race, carefully time it so no other boat can see me do so, some spectator ashore observes what is essentially indecent exposure, illegal discharge of sewage, and reports their observations to the Governing Authority,  and the next thing I know is I'm banned from racing for 6 months or more?

If that's true, I can live with it.  Sad to have to kneel in the cockpit and pee in a scupper with the mess that ensues, or even invest in a bunch of WAG bags.  The NBA handles such peccadilloes with a few thousand dollar fine, the NHL with some penalty box time (or fines), the NFL with a 5 yard penalty.  Also for this particular alleged transgression news is nowhere to be found on the Official VOR site, or the general media.

WTF is going on?

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5 minutes ago, axolotl said:

I find this thread tendentious so haven't slogged through it and will limit my comment to one narrow avenue.

  • Where exactly has Riley publicly stated she found the vid offensive and has instigated (or collaborated on) a Rule 69 complaint with the VOR committee?  I can't find it, except for the above innuendo.
  • Riley is a spectator in this round, nothing more.  Spectators, as far as I know, have no standing in any protest committee actions, except possibly as witnesses. 
  • If this Rule 69 protest (apparently introduced by the Protest Committee without an official protester who's participating in the race) is upheld, what does it mean for me as an insignificant but sanctioned racing sailor?

What's swirling in my head is the situation where I gotta pee off the stern (or leeward shrouds) in a can race, carefully time it so no other boat can see me do so, some spectator ashore observes what is essentially indecent exposure, illegal discharge of sewage, and reports their observations to the Governing Authority,  and the next thing I know is I'm banned from racing for 6 months or more?

If that's true, I can live with it.  Sad to have to kneel in the cockpit and pee in a scupper with the mess that ensues, or even invest in a bunch of WAG bags.  The NBA handles such peccadilloes with a few thousand dollar fine, the NHL with some penalty box time (or fines), the NFL with a 5 yard penalty.  Also for this particular alleged transgression news is nowhere to be found on the Official VOR site, or the general media.

WTF is going on?

IIRC anybody can file a 69 complaint with the protest committee. Apparently that now includes video watchers. And yes, if you piss off the back of your boat and random is watching through binocs, she'd probably be highly offended and file a 69 complaint. 

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1 minute ago, RKoch said:

IIRC anybody can file a 69 complaint with the protest committee. Apparently that now includes video watchers. And yes, if you piss off the back of your boat and random is watching through binocs, she'd probably be highly offended and file a 69 complaint. 

Indeed.

 

69.2 Action by a Protest Committee
(a) A protest committee acting under this rule shall have at least three members.
(b) When a protest committee, from its own observation or from information received from any source, including evidence taken during a hearing, believes a person may have broken rule 69.1(a), it shall decide whether or not to call a hearing.

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9 hours ago, pudge said:

At least I don't live in the stone age. 

No you live in the cotton wool age. You are getting very excited over this cup cake - me thinks you may have a personal connection to the players (maybe Witt cut your lunch?), otherwise why would a rational adult have so much sand in their vag over something that has nothing to do with them. Yes we know you are doing this for your niece, your girlfriend and the female boss you fantasize over at work.

Any chance of posting their tits?

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20 minutes ago, random said:

...Fucking funni here how the rednecks with 4ksb's think that this incident applies to them.

 

well its the same fucking rule so why wouldnt it? What does "professional crew" have to do with it? Rule 69 makes zero fucking mention of it.

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20 hours ago, random said:

Please link where I said I was outraged. Even 'faux-ish'

Making shit up again dude, it's a chronic issue you have, reading in what you want to see.

You endless winey posts in this thread are a fair indication of your Faux butt hurt. Maybe you could try some of witt's cod cream?

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2 minutes ago, random said:

So that means it can call a Hearing without a protest being received.

RRS 69 is not grounds for a protest.  Only the PC can call a hearing if they believe the rule has been broken. :

69.1 (c) An allegation of a breach of rule 69.1(a) shall be resolved in accordance with the provisions of rule 69. It shall not be grounds for a protest and rule 63.1 does not apply.

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2 minutes ago, hoppy said:

So I provided this link earlier and you failed to respond.

You are nothing more than your avatar suggests, a troll who needs a good amount of sudocrem rubbed into your private parts.

 

I think Bengay would be more suitable.

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3 hours ago, random said:

 

I support anyone who stands up and takes action against what Witty did, to stamp this shit out.

Unless that women was someone you dislike for commenting on male sports like Erin Molan. Keep up the good work mate - even people who agree with you think you are a cunt.

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5 minutes ago, random said:

I'll give it a go, but I''ll stop short of you applying it.  Have to say that I am starting to get used to your cold damp nose on my freckle though.

You seem to have your tongue in JS's of late.

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7 minutes ago, random said:

I'll give it a go, but I''ll stop short of you applying it.  Have to say that I am starting to get used to your cold damp nose on my freckle though.

More sexual harassment from you Random..... I'm protesting  ... rule 69 of course .. 

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10 minutes ago, Gone Drinking said:

RRS 69 is not grounds for a protest.  Only the PC can call a hearing if they believe the rule has been broken. :

69.1 (c) An allegation of a breach of rule 69.1(a) shall be resolved in accordance with the provisions of rule 69. It shall not be grounds for a protest and rule 63.1 does not apply.

Indeed.

 

if you read Part 5 - there's effectively three procedures: protest, redress, and rule 69 action.

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35 minutes ago, axolotl said:

I find this thread tendentious so haven't slogged through it and will limit my comment to one narrow avenue.

  • Where exactly has Riley publicly stated she found the vid offensive and has instigated (or collaborated on) a Rule 69 complaint with the VOR committee?  I can't find it, except for the above innuendo.
  • Riley is a spectator in this round, nothing more.  Spectators, as far as I know, have no standing in any protest committee actions, except possibly as witnesses. 

It was mentioned by Potter first I think. Something about confirming that she raised the issue during the yacht racing forum in Copenhagen. Then I asked the representative from my country if this was true and it was confirmed that she raised the issue in that forum.

Whether she or anybody else outside the VOR can file a protest is unknown to me. But apparently they can.

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1 hour ago, random said:

I am not pretending to be offended, that's a strawman response from privileged white men who are scared shitless that the last safe place they had has been invaded by females.

Neither does it matter whether AB was offended or not, totally besides the point.  It's about what Witt did.

For the record, I was not offended by what I saw.  For some reason I am finding difficult to put into words, Witt grosses me out, I find him hard to watch, cringe-inducing.

I started to watch the video again today after it was posted on the front page but only got a few seconds into it.  Something very fucking creepy about that guy and I could not bear to watch the frozen reaction of AB again, not to mention the sheepish expressions of the crew.  They sat there like school children, definitely uncomfortable, they instinctively knew it was out of order

 

You find him hard to watch so you watched it again. I guess you needed to see it twice confirm your reading of the other crews minds and working out exactly how they were feeling as this horror unfolded. Thanks for sharing their thoughts and feelings with us.

Arseclown.

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2 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

It was mentioned by Potter first I think. Something about confirming that she raised the issue during the yacht racing forum in Copenhagen. Then I asked the representative from my country if this was true and it was confirmed that she raised the issue in that forum.

Whether she or anybody else outside the VOR can file a protest is unknown to me. But apparently they can.

Yep - anyone who sees anything anywhere in the world they don't like associated with the sport can now try and bring a rule 69 against them. Randumb, old son, you should sell your shitbox and concentrate on gardening.

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1 minute ago, random said:

"I started to watch the video again today after it was posted on the front page but only got a few seconds into it.  Something very fucking creepy about that guy and I could not bear to watch the frozen reaction of AB again, not to mention the sheepish expressions of the creepy ..."

Some people just put clever spin on things, you rotate it 180 degrees till it's just plain incorrect.  Put your glasses on mate.

But no comment on your hatred of women calling men's sports?

Arseclown.

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I feel slightly harassed at the moment, by the way. I'm on a business trip and had to take a transfer bus out to a plane, of course the bus gets super crowded, but there's this business man who occupies TWO seats, even though old women stand right next to him.... and I'm thinking that he competes in the world class asshole competition, try to convince the women (by pointing to the seat) to just sit down, but they won't. I will regret my lack of gut for the rest of my life, I should have just addressed the man and told him to offer his extra seat to other passengers. No matter their gender.

The rest of the day was a series of encounters where men just took their place and didn't care if I was already being serviced. I was in the process of checking in to my hotel but the receptionist was constantly abrubted by men asking for different things. What the fuck. So in this place (eastern Europe) clearly men outrank women. I was nobody. And I was shocked.

Never EVER have I been treated this way during sailing. And you all know which boat I have delivered so I'm not new to the aussies. To even think that these guys would do something on purpose to make Annemieke feel bad is just beyond belief.

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17 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

It was mentioned by Potter first I think. Something about confirming that she raised the issue during the yacht racing forum in Copenhagen. Then I asked the representative from my country if this was true and it was confirmed that she raised the issue in that forum.

Whether she or anybody else outside the VOR can file a protest is unknown to me. But apparently they can.

No, only the protest committee can file a 69 protest. But they can initiate that action based on information they receive from anywhere. 

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8 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

I feel slightly harassed at the moment, by the way. I'm on a business trip and had to take a transfer bus out to a plane, of course the bus gets super crowded, but there's this business man who occupies TWO seats, even though old women stand right next to him.... and I'm thinking that he competes in the world class asshole competition, try to convince the women (by pointing to the seat) to just sit down, but they won't. I will regret my lack of gut for the rest of my life, I should have just addressed the man and told him to offer his extra seat to other passengers. No matter their gender.

The rest of the day was a series of encounters where men just took their place and didn't care if I was already being serviced. I was in the process of checking in to my hotel but the receptionist was constantly abrubted by men asking for different things. What the fuck. So in this place (eastern Europe) clearly men outrank women. I was nobody. And I was shocked.

Never EVER have I been treated this way during sailing. And you all know which boat I have delivered so I'm not new to the aussies. To even think that these guys would do something on purpose to make Annemieke feel bad is just beyond belief.

Which bit of backwater europe are you in???!!

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The committee receiving a complaint is like a police or investigating judge/counsel (depending on what country you're from) getting a tip. 

They investigate everything and give the accused due process. It can be  about sailors getting drunk and trashing the bar. Skipper not paying professional help. Cheating not otherwise addressed by the rules. 

Getting bent out of shape until there's actually some sanctions involved. 

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2 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

I feel slightly harassed at the moment, by the way. I'm on a business trip and had to take a transfer bus out to a plane, of course the bus gets super crowded, but there's this business man who occupies TWO seats, even though old women stand right next to him.... and I'm thinking that he competes in the world class asshole competition, try to convince the women (by pointing to the seat) to just sit down, but they won't. I will regret my lack of gut for the rest of my life, I should have just addressed the man and told him to offer his extra seat to other passengers. No matter their gender.

The rest of the day was a series of encounters where men just took their place and didn't care if I was already being serviced. I was in the process of checking in to my hotel but the receptionist was constantly abrubted by men asking for different things. What the fuck. So in this place (eastern Europe) clearly men outrank women. I was nobody. And I was shocked.

Never EVER have I been treated this way during sailing. And you all know which boat I have delivered so I'm not new to the aussies. To even think that these guys would do something on purpose to make Annemieke feel bad is just beyond belief.

+ 1

There are genuine predators and abusers and all around harassing male arse-holes out there. Zero tolerance for that.

Then there is the conceited idiot who thinks he is smarter than me in the workplace because he is male. Thankfully a diminishing number and my response is a thick skin and just get the job done better and make more money than him and have a better life.

But men on sailboats are unlikely to grow up any time soon. I have a withering glance that works pretty well if they cross the eyesailor line.  Am I the only person who finds sailors and their sheepish looks after they tell a particularly bad joke, kinda cute? I guess I married one. He still likes to go out drinking with the boys and I can only guess at what kind of jokes they tell each other but I've had 25+ years of being treated as the love of his life so I will take this big dumb sailor any day. 

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34 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

It was mentioned by Potter first I think. Something about confirming that she raised the issue during the yacht racing forum in Copenhagen. Then I asked the representative from my country if this was true and it was confirmed that she raised the issue in that forum.

Whether she or anybody else outside the VOR can file a protest is unknown to me. But apparently they can.

Just curious. How do you get to go to a Yacht Racing Forum? Who decides who represents a country? Was Dawn representing a country? are there invitations? from whom? Can anyone just turn up and walk in (e.g/ democratic)? Do you get paid to attend? Travel and subsistence expenses? Pay your own or does someone else pay? What qualifies you to get listened to? Who decides who's views to pay attention to? are there votes? Sounds like it could be a bit of a fun trip if someone else is paying but you would need to be very conscientious to pay for such a trip yourself when you could spend the money on a holiday though.

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33 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

I feel slightly harassed at the moment, by the way. I'm on a business trip and had to take a transfer bus out to a plane, of course the bus gets super crowded, but there's this business man who occupies TWO seats, even though old women stand right next to him.... and I'm thinking that he competes in the world class asshole competition, try to convince the women (by pointing to the seat) to just sit down, but they won't. I will regret my lack of gut for the rest of my life, I should have just addressed the man and told him to offer his extra seat to other passengers. No matter their gender.

The rest of the day was a series of encounters where men just took their place and didn't care if I was already being serviced. I was in the process of checking in to my hotel but the receptionist was constantly abrubted by men asking for different things. What the fuck. So in this place (eastern Europe) clearly men outrank women. I was nobody. And I was shocked.

Never EVER have I been treated this way during sailing. And you all know which boat I have delivered so I'm not new to the aussies. To even think that these guys would do something on purpose to make Annemieke feel bad is just beyond belief.

This is a good reminder why folks might want to settle down and see why in the Anglo American world there's more heightened sensitivity to this stuff. A lot of pent up social pressures and heroes being revealed. I notice for every whining PC police there's also a whining antiPC police insisting nothing is wrong. 

Harder to judge standards when there's so many cultural factors and multinational groups nvolved . 

Edit: don't really seriously understand what's the ruckus from either extreme. Even old seadogs can learn to be appropriately emphatic to new things.

Just an example. European crews more or less have figured out how not to unnecessarily offend each other. Europeans can't go around doing ching chong eyes with east Asian sailors trying to enter the fold and If doing ching chong eyes is so important to you, you're just a sad asshole. 

Likewise. If you're east Asian and someone did chingchong eyes as a gesture. Just politely explain how it is offensive and move on. We all figure out who we want to sail or live lives with. Men. Women. Nonbinary gender. Whatever make believe religious ystem . It isn't that hard. 

For me personally, I'm more aggravated when "press" directly sexualize athletes not looking to sell that part. When the cameras mics are off, or even when on, pigs who pretend to be advocates of equality and progressive orientation are just as likely to tell a female I've been lusting after you for years, or diminish their accomplishments by saying oh you have a male connectio . 

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1 hour ago, DarkHorse said:

Does it stop at videos on the internet, or can anyone who is offended by a joke on an offshore race turn the perpertrator in  for Rule 69?

Hell, how come we haven' t seen a Rule 69 for the 'hazing' those who cross the equator.

This has really gone too far. (and i won't even mention how far Riley just raised the bar for taking women offshore) 

 

Agree DarkHorse, I see being held down and having your head shaved while being smeared in a random concoction of shit as being more hurtful than a joke about a rash on someones nut sack. Pretty sure that would be labelled "bullying" in the workplace. 

I think we should all take a mental health day and have a fucking good hard look at ourselves... I believe for the next leg they are going to employ an HR officer for each boat who's additional duties will include cleaning the head and washing out the crews mouth's with soap. 

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All of this is utterly ridiculous.  What the hell were the rules writers thinking when the popped the door open on RRS 69?  The result is this?

I promise, I will not be a judge involved in any of this sort of RRS 69 puffery.  I'll tell any yacht club to go find someone else.

World Sailing really missed the target on this rule change.  The rule was just fine before.

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35 minutes ago, Oscar Whitbread said:

Agree DarkHorse, I see being held down and having your head shaved while being smeared in a random concoction of shit as being more hurtful than a joke about a rash on someones nut sack. Pretty sure that would be labelled "bullying" in the workplace. 

I think we should all take a mental health day and have a fucking good hard look at ourselves... I believe for the next leg they are going to employ an HR officer for each boat who's additional duties will include cleaning the head and washing out the crews mouth's with soap. 

That's rather hysterical a take/response. 

Like said above, anyone can refer facts. They're investigated. Doesn't mean anything else. Some seem to behave as if being referred means a foregone conclusion that you'll be sanctioned. 

The Navy's and commercial maritime equator festivities may be managed differently from amateur boats, but even on recreational boats, the job of the person initiating a youngster isn't given lightly. You give it to someone with sense and never hand an initiate to another where there's personal beef or bad competition. 

I certainly think you can tell if an initiate is willing and if someone has taken it too far. And yea each person is an individual. I would never take a shaver to a woman with a ponytail unless we've privately made sure. If you struggle with seeing individual boundaries in a grey world, you won't be given the task hopefully. 

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23 minutes ago, Glenn McCarthy said:

All of this is utterly ridiculous.  What the hell were the rules writers thinking when the popped the door open on RRS 69?  The result is this?

I promise, I will not be a judge involved in any of this sort of RRS 69 puffery.  I'll tell any yacht club to go find someone else.

World Sailing really missed the target on this rule change.  The rule was just fine before.

To better understand the judging issues, would you kindly suggest a better starting link than this? My certs are 40 years out of date and my Rule-reading skills rusty.

https://www.racingrulesofsailing.org/posts/38-world-sailing-misconduct-guide

Thank you. (cred Roger, again, for that link)

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39 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

Equality...........

We have a long way to go in so many ways.... If indeed that is what we truly desire.......

Not too long ago it was all about inclusion, opening private clubs, sporting venues, positions in the workplace, the military etc previously held strictly by men.

I guess this is the second phase - behavior modification. 

Third phase.

 

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10 hours ago, southerncross said:

Australian skipper faces misconduct charge in Volvo race

David Witt and Annemieke Bes on board Scallywag.

The Australian. 12:00AM December 7, 2017. NICOLE JEFFERY. Sports reporter. Sydney  @nicolejeffery

Australian skipper David Witt is facing a misconduct charge after an incident on the second leg of the Volvo Ocean Race.

It is understood that Witt will appear before an international jury at a hearing in Cape Town today to answer a complaint that he has breached Rule 69 of the racing rules of sailing.

The race organisers would say only that they would “provide an official communication after the hearing on Thursday’’.

Rule 69 says that “a competitor, boat owner or support person shall not commit an act of misconduct’’.

Misconduct is defined as “conduct that is a breach of good ­manners, a breach of good sportsmanship, or unethical behaviour: or conduct that may bring the sport into disrepute’’.

Witt, the skipper of Hong Kong-based yacht Scallywag, and his British helmsman Steve Hayles feature in a video that was posted to the team website during the second leg of the round-the-world race (from Lisbon to Cape Town) last month. The video purports to be a “breakfast show’’ and begins with Witt saying: “Adult warning: everything in this segment will ­offend most sections of the public domain.’’

Witt later introduces the only female crew member on board, Dutch Olympic silver medallist Annemieke Bes as “Doctor Clogs’’ and says they have a question for her from a viewer.

Hayles then says: “The question is: Our skipper David has a rash on his scrotum and they would like to know how these two are meant to apply the Sudocrem (an ointment)’’.

Bes, who is wearing a fake beard, is rendered speechless and Witt chimes in saying that the doctor is “mute’’ and “just does hand signals’’.

“So it’s in the Sudocrem and rubbing the Sudocrem like this,’’ he says while he pretends to remove cream from a jar and rub it into Hayles’ genital area.

The video was posted to the team’s website and automatically reposted to the Volvo Ocean Race website where it reportedly remained for several days before the race organisers removed it after complaints from the public.

The incident was then referred to the race’s protest committee.

A sailing website, www.sailingillustrated.com, broke the news of the hearing on Tuesday and posted a copy of the video to its Facebook page. However, the video was removed later that day. The original video was the subject of social media discussion within the sailing community for weeks.

Witt had attained a level of ­notoriety before the race even began when he declared, “There is no room for women on my boat”, in response to race rules that rewarded teams that included women with extra crew places.

“I’ve made my decision — we’re going with seven guys,’’ he said. “It’s hard enough to win the race, the last thing we need is to be part of a social experiment.”

However, he later backtracked and recruited Bes for the race.

Ok so he's an Australian and he is clueless on how to behave in what I would call normal society.  And he is proud of it.  I lived with 4 of these guys in CA - would have fit right in with them total jerks.  The real point is why are you not suprised.  This behavior is wrong - the other problem for this guy he will never see it that way as he only knows what he knows (like a teenager).

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Unlike some, I think the basis of this hearing has validity and is needed

I agree we have all probably said or heard worse on boats we have raced, but that's not what is at stake. The difference between that and what we have here is that this was broadcast to many viewers and knowing that was going to happen, Witty deliberately set out to to cause offence, if not to his employee (that's what the crew are) then to the general public. He says so at the beginning of the video. In that regard, if you are setting out to cause offence to the general public, surely there is at least a charge to answer. Then there is the way he did it, by trying to catch the one female crew member off guard and get a reaction, or at very least, if he knew that she would be OK with the content, it was still a deliberate attempt to get a reaction using the gender situation.. I think those 2 "facts" cannot be denied, so the question is does it constitute a rule 69 offence.

This is where I have a lot more of an issue. It seems to me that it was Witty being Witty, playing up for the cameras. As such, it has to be Volvo's fault or the OBR. My bet would be that there are a fair number of things that get said and done on board that if published would lead to a segment of our society being outraged, but fortunately, probably through common sense, we haven't seen them.

As for this situation, although I think it was pathetic of whoever raised it, I think VOR and WS have no option but to hold a hearing. To not do so could be seen by some as burying the issue under the carpet and that would have been a far bigger story that would run much longer. I hope and suspect that common sense will prevail, Witty will be found not to have contravened 69 and the jury will put out a statement to do with maintaining certain standards bla bla bla.  If common sense prevails, people will say that a properly constituted  and respected jury looked at the issue and took what was seen as appropriate action. Then the whole thing will be forgotten.

Sometimes having your day in court can be a good thing.

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3 hours ago, axolotl said:

Where exactly has Riley publicly stated she found the vid offensive and has instigated (or collaborated on) a Rule 69 complaint with the VOR committee?  I can't find it, except for the above innuendo.

Yes confirmed now she did so at the Yacht Racing Forum held in Denmark on last weekend in November. I didn't put my "candle" post up earlier until that was confirmed.

3 hours ago, axolotl said:

Riley is a spectator in this round, nothing more.  Spectators, as far as I know, have no standing in any protest committee actions, except possibly as witnesses. 

No standing yes but the RO is compelled to act upon any third party formal complaint with the first step being an investigation to see if it should be taken further. As shown in this case a member of the public simply viewing onboard video in the middle of the ocean is enough to allow a third party formal complaint to be made and acted upon.

3 hours ago, RKoch said:

If this Rule 69 protest (apparently introduced by the Protest Committee without an official protester who's participating in the race) is upheld, what does it mean for me as an insignificant but sanctioned racing sailor?

Your fucked.

3 hours ago, RKoch said:

Also for this particular alleged transgression news is nowhere to be found on the Official VOR site, or the general media.

WTF is going on?

The RO has put their head in the sand. That would seem to indicate that all we can expect to see and hear is nothing other than the outcome of the WS Jury Hearing later today. 

The Editors FP video which went up a few hours ago is the first time Dawn Riley's involvement in this 69er has been published. I was worried this third party complaint aspect would be buried so hats off to Scott/Clean for publishing it. Others in the media will now no doubt follow. That might also flush Dawn out.

As to mainstream media the 69er was published earlier today in the Australian.

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17 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

If common sense prevails, people will say that a properly constituted  and respected jury looked at the issue and took what was seen as appropriate action. Then the whole thing will be forgotten.

Hopefully forgotton yes, but in reality no. The genie is out of the bottle and it will have to be properly addressed as it should have been the moment mixed crews was announced. 

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15 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Yes confirmed now she did so at the Yacht Racing Forum held in Denmark on last weekend in November. I didn't put my "candle" post up earlier until that was confirmed.

No standing yes but the RO is compelled to act upon any third party formal complaint with the first step being an investigation to see if it should be taken further. As shown in this case a member of the public simply viewing onboard video in the middle of the ocean is enough to allow a third party formal complaint to be made and acted upon.

Your fucked.

The RO has put their head in the sand. That would seem to indicate that all we can expect to see and hear is nothing other than the outcome of the WS Jury Hearing later today. 

The Editors FP video which went up a few hours ago is the first time Dawn Riley's involvement in this 69er has been published. I was worried this third party complaint aspect would be buried so hats off to Scott/Clean for publishing it. Others will now no doubt follow. 

As to mainstream media the 69er was published earlier today in the Australian.

Strange that David Witt has not made a statement to date? At least I haven't seen one. Annemieke Bes hasn't spoken either. Steve Hayles has supposedly left the team? I wonder how the Team's management actually see the incident in terms of offensiveness?

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On 12/5/2017 at 12:28 AM, random said:

Why don't you take this shit on the forums you usually frequent.  Given the topic ... it's not cool mate.  No one needs this shit here.

It really appears Dawn is crying out for some attention. I always thought she was cool and good for the sport , but this is just insane. Witt is a tard for sure , but if he truly offended AB or crossed the line, she wouldn't be on board for Leg 3 IMO . Hopefully she speaks up , her opinion is the most valid in this BS .

Sidenote- it's pretty cool Randumb couldn't keep his story streamlined  long enough to keep it a play for women's right's , instead has shown he has an axe to grind with witty . Randumb , i feel sorry for you, that's no way to go through life.

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7 hours ago, southerncross said:

There was once a proposition to have live coverage 24/7.  I don't remember if it came from an interview with Knut or if it was first discussed somewhere here.

 

7 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

That was always my quest.  

 

Power generation/storage the limiting factor there. Even now they are with modest diesel consumption producing a lot of power to just do what they are doing.

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This is absolute nonsense. We have women on our crew and when we sail there are no sexes. We're just all sailors .Dirty jokes, and shock horror that F word. Everyone joins in, we race competitively and have all sailed together for years presumably having fun.. Dawn and her mates would have a field day with us. Unfortunately for you all out there in SA land we don't have access to the VOR type internet coverage. We would be a #1 ratings show. Just like most race crews I suspect ?

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6 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Strange that David Witt has not made a statement to date?

Not smart to say anything public in advance of the hearing and particularly so where details of the protest itself has not been put into the public domain.

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21 minutes ago, bigrpowr said:

It really appears Dawn is crying out for some attention. I always thought she was cool and good for the sport , but this is just insane. Witt is a tard for sure , but if he truly offended AB or crossed the line, she wouldn't be on board for Leg 3 IMO . Hopefully she speaks up , her opinion is the most valid in this BS .

Stupid Dawn has just Weinsteined her own sport and a sport that doesn't have that problem. Bessie is the meat in the sandwich and my guess pissed off and horrified. Not sure we will hear from Bessie, Dawn however is going to look pretty stupid if she doesn't speak up and I'm sure Clean and others are on her arse as we speak.

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12 minutes ago, armchairadmiral said:

This is absolute nonsense. We have women on our crew and when we sail there are no sexes. We're just all sailors .Dirty jokes, and shock horror that F word. Everyone joins in, we race competitively and have all sailed together for years presumably having fun.. Dawn and her mates would have a field day with us. Unfortunately for you all out there in SA land we don't have access to the VOR type internet coverage. We would be a #1 ratings show. Just like most race crews I suspect ?

You answered your own statement. You don't have an OBR an audience of millions (lots who don't sail) sponsors, PR team, team owner who has 40,000 employees. Would you broadcast your weekend racing, including dirty jokes & f bomb's & send it to your opposition in business? I wouldn't. 

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4 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

You answered your own statement. You don't have an OBR an audience of millions (lots who don't sail) sponsors, PR team, team owner who has 40,000 employees. Would you broadcast your weekend racing, including dirty jokes & f bomb's & send it to your opposition in business? I wouldn't. 

obviously everything you just described , he knew was going to be broadcasted and he still signed the check. you probably shouldn't speak for people you don't know.

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54 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Yes confirmed now she did so at the Yacht Racing Forum held in Denmark on last weekend in November. I didn't put my "candle" post up earlier until that was confirmed.

No standing yes but the RO is compelled to act upon any third party formal complaint with the first step being an investigation to see if it should be taken further. As shown in this case a member of the public simply viewing onboard video in the middle of the ocean is enough to allow a third party formal complaint to be made and acted upon.

Your fucked.

The RO has put their head in the sand. That would seem to indicate that all we can expect to see and hear is nothing other than the outcome of the WS Jury Hearing later today. 

The Editors FP video which went up a few hours ago is the first time Dawn Riley's involvement in this 69er has been published. I was worried this third party complaint aspect would be buried so hats off to Scott/Clean for publishing it. Others in the media will now no doubt follow. That might also flush Dawn out.

As to mainstream media the 69er was published earlier today in the Australian.

I didn't make the posts you're quoting. Learn how to use the quote function, Willya?

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3 minutes ago, bigrpowr said:

obviously everything you just described , he knew was going to be broadcasted and he still signed the check. you probably shouldn't speak for people you don't know.

Witty signed the cheque. Will your buddy? 

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10 hours ago, southerncross said:

Time Person of the Year.  No political statement.  Just the temperature.

person-of-year-2017-time-magazine-cover1.jpg

Certainly the temperature Runkle.

For those a bit puzzled or living in North Korea, each of those women (some celebs some not) represent one of the "voices" that helped to launch the #MeToo social media movement, which went viral in the wake of the Harvey Weinstein revelations.

In Time's words, they are 'The Silence Breakers'.

Dawn probably thinks she is the elbow in the lower right-hand corner.

According to Time, that elbow belongs to an "anonymous young hospital worker from Texas" who is a victim of sexual harassment, but who fears disclosing her identity may negatively impact her family.

"Her appearance is an act of solidarity, representing all those who are not yet able to come forward and reveal their identities," Time said.

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12 minutes ago, RKoch said:

I didn't make the posts you're quoting. Learn how to use the quote function, Willya?

Sorry Kochie..they were all axlelot's but the posting gremlin had you marked for the last two. I hope you not going to lodge a 69 complaint.

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1 hour ago, Team_GBR said:

Unlike some, I think the basis of this hearing has validity and is needed

I agree we have all probably said or heard worse on boats we have raced, but that's not what is at stake. The difference between that and what we have here is that this was broadcast to many viewers and knowing that was going to happen, Witty deliberately set out to to cause offence

I think he was bored and tried some edgy humor.. nothing more... There is harmless fun and there's intentionally being offensive.... The vast majority here took it as harmless fun... So who makes the moral and ethical rules for us all..?     I sure hope it isn't Dawn or Random.... what a boring clinical world that would be ...

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18 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Pil Unfortunately the left are the moral & ethical police now. The battle was lost years ago. 

 

(In Australia at least, I guess Trump gives USA some hope) 

Really? The biggest asshole to hit the planet in a long time gives you hope?  So you think that the way things were before this year in many professional spheres for women were just fine. Here, let me take a bet with you. You have a Y chromosome.

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1 hour ago, SCANAS said:

You answered your own statement. You don't have an OBR an audience of millions (lots who don't sail) sponsors, PR team, team owner who has 40,000 employees. Would you broadcast your weekend racing, including dirty jokes & f bomb's & send it to your opposition in business? I wouldn't. 

At least on the Pogo we have moved past the ball jokes.

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36 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

As Kirk Pengilly recently said, "'I miss the days you could slap a woman on the butt and it was taken as a compliment"

PC will be the death of us all.. a slow, dull, drowning in a morass of porridge.

No, that's fantasy. Nobody has ever taken getting slapped on the ass by a colleague as a compliment.

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7 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

In case anyone didn't notice, someone on the inside sent Scot the video and he posted it again with his own commentary. 

 

http://sailinganarchy.com/2017/12/06/rule-69/

 

 

Hats off to Scott/you for putting Dawn Riley's role in this sorry affair out in the public domain where it belongs. Not just because that was needed, but also because I understand there was a legal stouch between Riley and you guys some time ago, so many in your position would have baulked at doing that.

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5 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Hats off to Scott/you for putting Dawn Riley's role in this sorry affair out in the public domain where it belongs. Not just because that was needed, but also because I understand there was a legal stouch between Riley and you guys some time ago, so many in your position would have baulked at doing that.

 

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Ive known Dawn for 30 years. We've sailed together, gotten hammered together. Know for a fact she's said worse shit than "scrotum". Fortunately not on video. I'm interested in her take, if indeed she was one of those who filed a complaint.

What I'm seeing here...if anyone on the boat was truly offended, that should have been handled internally. What makes it an issue is posting the video to VOR page, where even Witt acknowledges some viewers will get sand in their vaginas. That still seems like it should be an issue for VOR to handle with the team, not a 69 protest. 

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13 minutes ago, hoppy said:

This metoo thing is a disgraceful pile of bullshit.

It effectively equates someone who once had their arse grabbed at a concert or who was wolf whistled walking past a building site, to someone like my friend who was so brutally raped by her boss that doctors were not sure at first whether she would survive.

I think you miss the point. The MeToo women stepped out into the spotlight and doing so have lowered the bar on what has been seen as unacceptable behaviour and where prior to this the perpetrators have been getting away with it. It in no way diminishes the position of others caught up in far more brutal circumstances like your friend. 

More to the point what is the alternative???....there should have been no response to the Wienstein affair and therefore no moral outrage?

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5 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Just watched the video again.. AB was totally in on the joke.

This has NOTHING to do with sexual harassment or mysogyny NOTHING!!!!!

Whether it was appropriate to be on the VOR official site, that's another matter.

Smartest thing you have said. 

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1 minute ago, hoppy said:

The response to the Wienstein should have been that more of his victims come out and others like Burke get outed too, but the metoo hashtag shit should just not exist.

But that is the medium that encouraged victims to come out, and as it transpired, in their droves??? You have confused me.

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8 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Ive known Dawn for 30 years. We've sailed together, gotten hammered together. Know for a fact she's said worse shit than "scrotum". Fortunately not on video. I'm interested in her take, if indeed she was one of those who filed a complaint.

What I'm seeing here...if anyone on the boat was truly offended, that should have been handled internally. What makes it an issue is posting the video to VOR page, where even Witt acknowledges some viewers will get sand in their vaginas. That still seems like it should be an issue for VOR to handle with the team, not a 69 protest. 

I think most are missing a key point here - the fundamental issue is that WS has changed 69 from "gross misconduct" to just "misconduct" and allowed virtually anyone to complain.  I said  when this change was in process that we'd end  up with the mortality police, and that is exactly what we have here.

There is also a lot going in behind the scenes, stuff that would not be evident to most.  The IOC is trying to mandate "gender equity" and that means mostly participation levels at the Olympics, but tangentially it ends up effecting the whole sport. I'm all for more women sailing, it's just that WS can fuck up a two car funeral.

Then there is the Coady v World Sailing suit.

So, what's WS going to do, waive this one off, and give Coady a lot of ammo in the various courts?  Or go tough, and bear the consequences of having to now set precedent for "misconduct".

The entire 69 rule and procedural is what everyone should really find offensive.  Yes, this sort of thing could happen to you, even at your 4 knot shit box level.

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2 minutes ago, pudge said:

There’s a pretty simple way of avoiding a rule 69 protest: don’t be a fucking dueschbag. 

In fact being a fucking dueschbag has stopped you from getting a 69 of any kind.

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6 minutes ago, pudge said:

There’s a pretty simple way of avoiding a rule 69 protest: don’t be a fucking dueschbag. 

you have a fairly limited imagination, don't you.  Your statement above could well be interpreted as a 'breach of good manners'. 

What happens when you say that to a competitor on the water in the heat of battle?

 

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7 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Yep - anyone who sees anything anywhere in the world they don't like associated with the sport can now try and bring a rule 69 against them. Randumb, old son, you should sell your shitbox and concentrate on gardening.

Yes, basically World Sailing has totally fuked this up...

Without setting a time / distance boundary, according to Rule 6 from world sailings Misconduct Guidance; particularly rule 6.4 means that "hypothetically" I could run into random or any of the other snowflakes here, refer to them as mincing scrotums, and as long as I'm wearing a t-shirt, hat, jacket, ANYTHING, that links me to a sailing event, however historical, I can be subject to a rule 69 hearing, for using a word (scrotum), that appears in dictionaries, medical texts, thesaurus, encyclopedia, wikipedia (don't google it in wiki, there are pictures that may cause snowflake indignation stress heart attacks), and its synonym testicles is found in legal and religious texts.

Brave new world indeed, let me know when the righteously indignant break out the matches and the book burning starts,  

 The extent of rule 69 jurisdiction (the time and location of misconduct)

6.1 The jurisdiction of the protest committee under rule 69 extends from the earlier of:

6.1.1 the time the competitor arrives at the venue for the purpose of the event; or

6.1.2 the time the competitor registers their intention to enter and be bound by the rules; and continues through till their departure from the venue after racing (but may extend beyond this time – see section 6.4).

6.2 If the competitor can readily be associated with the event, or if there is an incident in a public place between competitors, or if several competitors join together in bad behaviour, then the protest committee can take action.

6.3 The important question is whether the behaviour of the competitors can reasonably be said to be associated to the sport or to the event. For example, if a club or event receives a complaint from someone who is not associated with the event about the behaviour of one or more competitors, this indicates that a connection has already been made and the sport in general (and the event in particular) may have been brought into disrepute.

6.4 Misconduct occurring after the end of the event, possibly even away from the event location, could be considered under rule 69 if sufficient association to the event is established.

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2 hours ago, LB 15 said:

At least on the Pogo we have moved past the ball jokes.

Another good thing about the Pogo is you stand up a lot, so I can really go all French & put a lot of arm movement into my tall stories. 

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I think VOR are the guilty party here for posting the vid and then keeping on their website for long.  Sure Witt was the skipper that instigated it but one wonders how many other marginally offensive videos over the years have been sent back to the office but were not posted on the website.  Plenty I bet.

The always outraged snowflakes have created a PC world where they see life through very narrow view eyes.  The #metoo's who just pile on the bandwagon has gotten out of hand totally.  The females who used their sex to climb up the ladder, be it corporate or acting, are worse than the Weinsteins that are out there but you will not hear a word against them, there a plenty out there in good positions only because they took a step up by using someone of power sexually to do so.   

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29 minutes ago, HILLY said:

Yes, basically World Sailing has totally fuked this up...

Without setting a time / distance boundary, according to Rule 6 from world sailings Misconduct Guidance; particularly rule 6.4 means that "hypothetically" I could run into random or any of the other snowflakes here, refer to them as mincing scrotums, and as long as I'm wearing a t-shirt, hat, jacket, ANYTHING, that links me to a sailing event, however historical, I can be subject to a rule 69 hearing, for using a word (scrotum), that appears in dictionaries, medical texts, thesaurus, encyclopedia, wikipedia (don't google it in wiki, there are pictures that may cause snowflake indignation stress heart attacks), and its synonym testicles is found in legal and religious texts.

That is total horseshit! You could not be brought up on a rule 69 charge for calling somebody a "mincing scrotum" or even for using the word "scrotum". I don't know where you got that from, but it is way off course. If you think Witty is being dragged before the IJ only for using that word, you haven't been paying attention.

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