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On 12/31/2021 at 9:28 PM, accnick said:

I do wonder how those IPS drives would fare in my home cruising grounds in Maine. They look like pot warp magnets to me.

Make sure you have your open water certification and a drysuit handy. You'll be busy.

And those Sharrow props, boattest is a well known paid "reviewer". The numbers are completely made up bullshit.

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I might as well wade into this thread since it's a subject close to my heart. I'm a sailor and yacht designer and have been considering the sail or powerboat conundrum for as long as I've had to

As a lifelong sailor on the quest for the "perfect" day boat we developed and built our Momentary lapse of Reason:  A 30 ft powercat for Florida waters.  She easily cruises in the ocean at 22-24 kn an

Sailor's powerboat that I am working on. All carbon. 15 kts with 150 hp. KB PB 7-23-17 by robert perry, on Flickr

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2 hours ago, TPG said:

Make sure you have your open water certification and a drysuit handy. You'll be busy.

And those Sharrow props, boattest is a well known paid "reviewer". The numbers are completely made up bullshit.

What I have right now makes a lot more sense for where we are in Maine.

prop1.jpg

prop2.jpg

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Guess so. Even more off subject, but hey ho!, steampunk plate or faired rudder? Good old Brunel 1845.

Back to the subject and far smaller at 18ft similar length to the dinghy's' and cats I have owned. I like the lines of a good old 1960's US built power cuddy Dorsett Catalina design. Conflict of interest - I have one similar in the UK (not as nice as this though)

1200px-great_britain_propeller_and_rudder_wideshot.thumb.jpg.94e6fb6310345dd19c91fcb41d48a049.jpg

 

130608-2512DorsettCatalina59Escapade.jpg

1959 catalina.jpg

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I had a big argument discussion with a fast ferry builder in Australia who wanted to build plate rudders like you show. Finally convinced him to cover his plate with foam/glass to make me an airfoil. It was a bit fat but not as draggy as hauling a vertical cylinder through the water.

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9 hours ago, maldonmud said:

Guess so. Even more off subject, but hey ho!, steampunk plate or faired rudder? Good old Brunel 1845.

Back to the subject and far smaller at 18ft similar length to the dinghy's' and cats I have owned. I like the lines of a good old 1960's US built power cuddy Dorsett Catalina design. Conflict of interest - I have one similar in the UK (not as nice as this though)

1200px-great_britain_propeller_and_rudder_wideshot.thumb.jpg.94e6fb6310345dd19c91fcb41d48a049.jpg

 

130608-2512DorsettCatalina59Escapade.jpg

1959 catalina.jpg

That has 56 Chevrolet Nomad written all over it

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8 hours ago, Zonker said:

I had a big argument discussion with a fast ferry builder in Australia who wanted to build plate rudders like you show. Finally convinced him to cover his plate with foam/glass to make me an airfoil. It was a bit fat but not as draggy as hauling a vertical cylinder through the water.

Damn. I just have to know which one!

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10 hours ago, Zonker said:

Finally convinced him to cover his plate with foam/glass to make me an airfoil. It was a bit fat but not as draggy as hauling a vertical cylinder through the water

It's hard to convince people.  Humans have bad intuitions about drag.  No matter how many times I look at this picture, the fact that these two profiles have the same drag feels wrong to me.  Probably the very different volumes tricking my eye.

Screenshot_20220104_081738.png.f46cf0738608eb926c2d93140e1d6e76.png

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1 hour ago, fastyacht said:

Damn. I just have to know which one!

Marine Engineering Consultants, Coomera QLD. Otherwise super nice guys and very good build quality.  Just read they went into liquidation late in 2020.

That latter diagram was on a blackboard in an aero course I took and it sure stuck with me. Biplanes with wires = super draggy.

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I quite like the Bertram Moppie 28. 

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1 hour ago, MFH125 said:

It's hard to convince people.  Humans have bad intuitions about drag.  No matter how many times I look at this picture, the fact that these two profiles have the same drag feels wrong to me.  Probably the very different volumes tricking my eye.

Screenshot_20220104_081738.png.f46cf0738608eb926c2d93140e1d6e76.png

CD is related to a reference area, Drag is proportional to S x CD ! Likely the reference area are not the same

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The classic British powerboat for sailors who have hung up their oilskins. Dale Nelson. Basically a pilot boat semi-planing hull. Narrow, so limited interior volume. Good seakeeping. 

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59 minutes ago, Presuming Ed said:

The classic British powerboat for sailors who have hung up their oilskins. Dale Nelson. Basically a pilot boat semi-planing hull. Narrow, so limited interior volume. Good seakeeping. 

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Nice boats, built like ships  

mega horsepower wave smashing machines  

https://www.safehavenmarine.com/home

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7 hours ago, LeCanard said:

I quite like the Bertram Moppie 28. 

The 32 was very popular too. Even my dad liked them. Were they designed by Hunt?

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7 hours ago, patzefran said:

CD is related to a reference area, Drag is proportional to S x CD ! Likely the reference area are not the same

The reference lengths are different.  For the cylinder it's the diameter.  For the airfoil it's the chord length.

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these things are not real practical other than being pretty, and being good for low-speed cocktail cruising around the harbor.  thankfully, that's good enough

pretty much standard equipment in her home waters, harbor springs MI

321E9AA9-F2BD-4DFA-BFED-6F92D95AF953.heic 436A51F3-F085-4876-82ED-3638C1BAA67C.heic

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6 hours ago, 1sailor said:

these things are not real practical other than being pretty, and being good for low-speed cocktail cruising around the harbor.  thankfully, that's good enough

pretty much standard equipment in her home waters, harbor springs MI

321E9AA9-F2BD-4DFA-BFED-6F92D95AF953.heic 1.69 MB · 23 downloads 436A51F3-F085-4876-82ED-3638C1BAA67C.heic 804.36 kB · 10 downloads

There are good and bad things about jet drives. After owning one, in my personal use, the bad outweighed the good by a significant margin. But others might have positive experiences.

Anyone enjoy owning one for awhile?

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On 1/4/2022 at 10:51 AM, Russell Brown said:

The 32 was very popular too. Even my dad liked them. Were they designed by Hunt?

It was 31 and yes, but I'd call both powerboater's powerboats. Beating everyone to Nassau was impressive and made the company but it was a wet, brute force approach. Enough deadrise and enough power means you can dash across a nasty Gulfstream but it's inefficient for anything else.

Those boats are still restored by classic plastic buffs and are among few old boats that defy the "dime to the dollar" rule that says each dollar spent on an old boat increases resale value by a dime. It's closer to 90 cents on an old Bertram so you can go broke restoring them at a much slower rate.

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48 minutes ago, Lochnerian Tom said:

It was 31 and yes, but I'd call both powerboater's powerboats. Beating everyone to Nassau was impressive and made the company but it was a wet, brute force approach. Enough deadrise and enough power means you can dash across a nasty Gulfstream but it's inefficient for anything else.

Those boats are still restored by classic plastic buffs and are among few old boats that defy the "dime to the dollar" rule that says each dollar spent on an old boat increases resale value by a dime. It's closer to 90 cents on an old Bertram so you can go broke restoring them at a much slower rate.

LAst summer I actually ended up next to a fully restored 31 on route 84 as I was driving through Danbury CT!

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58 minutes ago, Matagi said:

Splendid. 

Love the looks and it has so many cool ideas (the seats alone are genius).

Bonus points: it's wood.

What a cool boat! The detailing is kind of amazing. Hard to figure how it can be a budget production boat and be wood at the same time. I'd love to see their operation. Happy to hear talk about wood and sustainability and even happier to hear mainstream talk about wood being a really light way to build.

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I love plywood composite boats, they have so much strength, are wonderfully stiff and can look very impressive at a moderate cost. I finished a Norwalk Island Sharpie in that way and it was light and fast.

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2 hours ago, Matagi said:

Splendid. 

Love the looks and it has so many cool ideas (the seats alone are genius).

Bonus points: it's wood.

What a great looking boat.    I have a hard time believing they can build it for 150k (GBP) including engines and taxes and stay in business, but fingers crossed, its a great combination of the pros without many of the cons.  (I am not a wood fan but understand why its a good solution ;)

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Swallow Yachts have been around for a while, they are doing some fantastic sailboats, too, that's where they started. The Coast 250 is essentially a motorsailor, but in fact one of the best sailboats I can think of, great looking as well, in my view. 

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The Whisper 300 is a breath of fresh air. Like!

On mine (Ha!) they'll delete some of the fancy bits. I don't need two dozen wine glasses or a park bench on the transom, etc. It will have an Alaskan bulkhead and sliding side windows though.

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I’d like to see a smaller, open version of that Whisper.  May 20-22 feet, single engine.   
 

Curious how they are getting what appears to be a compound curve in the plywood topsides with the tumblehome aft.  

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On 1/5/2022 at 7:35 PM, fastyacht said:

LAst summer I actually ended up next to a fully restored 31 on route 84 as I was driving through Danbury CT!

This one just got splashed.  Have to agree with @Lochnerian Tom. They really are a powerboater's powerboat.

230748311_Bertram31.JPG

Bertram312.JPG

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1 hour ago, valcour said:

I’d like to see a smaller, open version of that Whisper.  May 20-22 feet, single engine.   
 

Curious how they are getting what appears to be a compound curve in the plywood topsides with the tumblehome aft.  

It is surprising what you can do with good quaility plywood. This tubby little kayak is 10' x 2 /12'. The fordeck is concave just in front of the  cockpit side to side, and convex for and aft at the bow. Getting the rest of wood to bend to such a short wide shape wasn't easy, but it worked. 843129457_woodduckkayak020.thumb.jpeg.b25eee63326e92a113fa9604a4ec5211.jpeg

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I don't know if these are power boater's powerboats, or sailors powerboat's, but I walked by one of these on the dock this summer and the lines and craftsmanship were absolutely staggering. They build diesel, gas, electric, and maybe the odd sailboat owing to the founder's origins in building small sailboats in and around Lake Garda.

Here's a look at their production facility and a glimpse at some of their designs.  

 

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...and here's a closer look at the Demon Air...I know...I know...costs a fortune...burns too much fuel...not for everybody...but...but...

 

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4 hours ago, valcour said:

I’d like to see a smaller, open version of that Whisper.  May 20-22 feet, single engine.   
 

Curious how they are getting what appears to be a compound curve in the plywood topsides with the tumblehome aft.  

I don't think the topsides aft are compound. There is tumblehome but I don't see curvature in the fore and aft axis there.

Look at some of Sam Devlin's boats. He is quite good at making plywood boats look curvy. 

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On 1/7/2022 at 6:16 PM, Hitchhiker said:

This one just got splashed.  Have to agree with @Lochnerian Tom. They really are a powerboater's powerboat.

230748311_Bertram31.JPG

Bertram312.JPG

That's a beauty and I'm sure it's now diesel powered. Lots of these had gas engines. My friend's dad had one with gas power. It makes lots of sense, or did. Now you'd have to be crazy to restore one of these and put gas power. They're supposed to have diesels for some reason. I like diesels too, but the point was supposed to be to beat everyone to Nassau in shitty conditions. For speed, give me gas.

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But I didn't really come to talk about Bertrams.

One of my favorite Depression-era dead guy garage finds was a brown paper bag (accurately) labeled "Pieces of string too small to save."

I should have at least two shelves in my wood shop labeled "Pieces of wood too small (and sometimes shitty) to save"

It's a compulsion. And some of them are actually nice and every decade or so I find a use for one, encouraging me to save more.

The inability to cut a beautiful piece of wood led to a pretty cool powerboat, whether you're a sailor or not.

From the Phil Bolger and Friends FB group, Impala.

BolgerImpala.jpg

The accompanying comment:
 

Quote

 

“Impala” was the third boat built by Graham Hawkes to Bolger’s “Sea Hawk” design.

The difference with “Impala” is she is six foot longer than the original design of 38 feet.

When the keel timber arrived it was six foot longer than ordered. Hawkes felt it would be “criminal to cut six feet off this beautiful piece of timber” and built a 44 footer.

He achieved this by setting up the forward moulds then the aft moulds leaving a spacing of six feet in the centre.

He then battened the frames allowing them to shape the centre of the hull.

The result was an astounding success with the enlarged “Impala” proving to be an excellent coastal cruiser.

 

It's cool because it's kind of attractive. Although he was quite capable of designing a pretty boat, you had to actually ask Bolger to make it pretty or he would assume you didn't care, as he apparently did not. So if I had to bet whether a boat designed by Bolger and then redesigned by the builder would turn out pretty, with all due respect and admiration for Bolger, I'd bet no.

The redesign method is pretty cool too. If you have good ends, let them define a middle and it will be good.

Knowing that there's not a beautiful 6 foot scrap aging in some shed like mine is cool too. It's where it should be. Well done, Mr. Hawkes!

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3 hours ago, Lochnerian Tom said:

That's a beauty and I'm sure it's now diesel powered. Lots of these had gas engines. My friend's dad had one with gas power. It makes lots of sense, or did. Now you'd have to be crazy to restore one of these and put gas power. They're supposed to have diesels for some reason. I like diesels too, but the point was supposed to be to beat everyone to Nassau in shitty conditions. For speed, give me gas.

Yeah but that sheerline! heart skips a beat

 

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My cousin had one and repowered it with a 454 before the gas crunch a few years back.  He got an L&H 33’ a few years later and tried to get me to buy his Bertram. I told him I couldn’t afford the gas to run it. I just couldn’t see using that much fuel for speed and since I don’t go to the Hudson canyon off the New Jersey coast to fish like he did, I wouldn’t need a fast powerboat. So now I have an 11’ Boston Whaler with a 5 hp outboard and an electric trolling motor if I feel the urge to go fishing.

I do have to take a pic of a little flybridge fishing boat downtown. Can’t be more than 25’.  It looks like it could tow a string of Flying Scots, lightnings or 420’s or be a good line boat for the regatta. 

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3 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

My cousin had one and repowered it with a 454 before the gas crunch a few years back.  He got an L&H 33’ a few years later and tried to get me to buy his Bertram. I told him I couldn’t afford the gas to run it. I just couldn’t see using that much fuel for speed and since I don’t go to the Hudson canyon off the New Jersey coast to fish like he did, I wouldn’t need a fast powerboat. So now I have an 11’ Boston Whaler with a 5 hp outboard and an electric trolling motor if I feel the urge to go fishing.

I do have to take a pic of a little flybridge fishing boat downtown. Can’t be more than 25’.  It looks like it could tow a string of Flying Scots, lightnings or 420’s or be a good line boat for the regatta. 

Ah! The 11 footer!  There are only two of them in existence! Which one is yours?

After Six Decades of Innovation, Boston Whaler Remains the Unsinkable Legend

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:lol:

I have an old SS. Has a well in the aft thwart. It’s in project condition and stays in the water year round with the electric motor in case something happens in the lagoon and a boat is needed.

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On 12/31/2021 at 1:32 AM, Tanton Y_M said:

 

19SSpic1.jpg

scan0005_crop.jpg

SSpic.jpg

Last I was in Newport, we were sitting in the bar in Cook's looking at that boat, trying to figure out why they had decided to put the mast on backwards. Can you enlighten me?

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23 minutes ago, The great unwashed said:

Looks perfect to me.  Except I might cover the entire rear deck with the hardtop.  Nice place to sit out of the weather and watch the miles go by….

Designed for Diving Charter boat . Between Costa Rica and Cocos island. Yes under tropical sun you better be protected.

222-R4.jpg

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On 1/12/2022 at 10:08 AM, WillyT123 said:

Last I was in Newport, we were sitting in the bar in Cook's looking at that boat, trying to figure out why they had decided to put the mast on backwards. Can you enlighten me?

 A little explanation aboutTYD#896.

Also, check on my Blog (below). Search: Another season is starting.

896TXT1.jpg

896TXT2.jpg

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46 minutes ago, Bob Perry said:

We are moving ahead with a slightly larger version of this design for a sailor ready to make the transition from pure sail to a motor sailer.

 

Ted A. 1-18-22.png

Dopyerqa show - Copy.jpg

Love it. Take. My. Money. Thanks for posting your work.

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On 1/16/2022 at 9:14 AM, Tanton Y_M said:

Designed for Diving Charter boat . Between Costa Rica and Cocos island. Yes under tropical sun you better be protected.

222-R4.jpg

If I may ask, what is the purpose of separating the keel into two distinct surfaces? Just curious and singularly uninformed about these things.

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love the Perry design above—complete with sailing dinghy on deck.  And the boat is not 90/10 engine/sail—I suspect lots of time will be under sail or sail-assisted motoring.  The Simpson design has both a dedicated workbench and a stand-up engine room.  Lovely.  A motorboat with masts, rather than a motorsailer, but nice.

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On 1/4/2022 at 6:47 AM, Zonker said:

I had a big argument discussion with a fast ferry builder in Australia who wanted to build plate rudders like you show. Finally convinced him to cover his plate with foam/glass to make me an airfoil. It was a bit fat but not as draggy as hauling a vertical cylinder through the water.

The vertical cylinder isn't so bad with the LE and TE plates added....but yes, fast ferry should have a nice, fair rudder.

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9 hours ago, kinardly said:

If I may ask, what is the purpose of separating the keel into two distinct surfaces? Just curious and singularly uninformed about these things.

May be that there are two stabilizer fins and they appear as one forward keel in the profile drawing. There is a subtle shading difference from the hull which appears to be outboard of the keel line. 
 

Mr. Tanton has designed a very impressive yacht for diving charters. 

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On 1/9/2022 at 4:33 AM, Pertinacious Tom said:

That's a beauty and I'm sure it's now diesel powered. Lots of these had gas engines. My friend's dad had one with gas power. It makes lots of sense, or did. Now you'd have to be crazy to restore one of these and put gas power. They're supposed to have diesels for some reason. I like diesels too, but the point was supposed to be to beat everyone to Nassau in shitty conditions. For speed, give me gas.

We had a fully refurbished Bertram 28 as our race committee boat for many years paid for by the late Terry Kohler. That’s the boat I learned to drive twin engined inboards on. I loved that boat. When it was repowered, it got Merc 350’s because economy wasn’t really a concern. 

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18 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

This (in good condition) would make for a good committee/ line boat or tow boat for the junior sailing program at our club. 

A fishing boat like the Bertram, good for fishing. Not a lot of shade to be found and sitting at anchor on a flybridge can be rock-n-rolly. Also, that dive platform isn't particularly sharp and looks like something a bold racer wouldn't mind hitting.

Hands down, in every way, my POS pontoon boat is better for those purposes. 20 by 8 feet of shade with a mesh side curtain, comfortable seats all around, enough deck space for inflated marks, draws a foot and I don't care if I rub the bottom chasing kids into shallow water, and a tilted outboard does NOT look like something you want to chance hitting at the start. Already has some big dents in the hull, so if you want to rub your race boat against the skeg or hull, be my guest.

Ladies and gentlemen, the ultimate RC boat:

SpeckTaterTF1w.jpg

It's pretty similar in some ways to my fishing boat. Both catamarans about the same size. I've used my fishing boat as a race committee boat once. Only once have I wanted to get off a boat more than that day. Geezus. No shade, no comfortable seating, and the bridge deck pounds on every little wave. It's a great fishing boat, and like any fishing boat, it's good for fishing.

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1 hour ago, Pertinacious Tom said:

A fishing boat like the Bertram, good for fishing. Not a lot of shade to be found and sitting at anchor on a flybridge can be rock-n-rolly. Also, that dive platform isn't particularly sharp and looks like something a bold racer wouldn't mind hitting.

Hands down, in every way, my POS pontoon boat is better for those purposes. 20 by 8 feet of shade with a mesh side curtain, comfortable seats all around, enough deck space for inflated marks, draws a foot and I don't care if I rub the bottom chasing kids into shallow water, and a tilted outboard does NOT look like something you want to chance hitting at the start. Already has some big dents in the hull, so if you want to rub your race boat against the skeg or hull, be my guest.

Ladies and gentlemen, the ultimate RC boat:

SpeckTaterTF1w.jpg

It's pretty similar in some ways to my fishing boat. Both catamarans about the same size. I've used my fishing boat as a race committee boat once. Only once have I wanted to get off a boat more than that day. Geezus. No shade, no comfortable seating, and the bridge deck pounds on every little wave. It's a great fishing boat, and like any fishing boat, it's good for fishing.

I like inshore power boats that move along nicely , but don’t leave a destructive wake 

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21 hours ago, slug zitski said:

I like inshore power boats that move along nicely , but don’t leave a destructive wake 

Yeah, I guess I forgot the obvious, but of course my little toon boat makes less wake than those twin engine flybridge fishing boats.

Now if you want something about like the toon boat but without any noticeable wake, we're back to the Cowmaran. It has a pretty thin skin and I'd hate to see a racer hit it at the start, but it does have twin outboards to fend off the bold. Thing is, the owner of that boat just completed a 5k run and took time off his previous efforts. And won. He's 81. I guess i have some time to try to work my way up in the inheritance line.

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4 hours ago, Pertinacious Tom said:

 

Now if you want something about like the toon boat but without any noticeable wake, we're back to the Cowmaran. It has a pretty thin skin and I'd hate to see a racer hit it at the start, but it does have twin outboards to fend off the bold. 

I’ve found that I much prefer racing when supporting it as a race committee member or by providing my own boat as the committee boat.  However, taking a hit from an overzealous competitor or worse, an idiot competitor, is just not particularly attractive.  I suppose if the boat itself wasn’t the actual end of the start line, I’d be more interested…

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18 hours ago, Veeger said:

However, taking a hit from an overzealous competitor or worse, an idiot competitor, is just not particularly attractive.

You can see one of the many dents in my hull in the pic above. Not the biggest one. Not as visible, the weld repairs on the railing from when the tree fell on it. It had a very hard life before I got it and nothing any racer could do would make much difference at this point. And if they did, pontoon wrecks are cheap and I'd just buy another and put my good engine and Bimini on it.

At least, I hope the engine is still good. Only a couple hundred hours on it and it was overheating. I replaced the water pump and checked the thermostat and then handed it to a shop. They're dismantling the power head to see what's in the cooling passages. The answer should damn well be nothing. I'll probably learn what the answer actually is this week.

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Saw this over the weekend-- Aluminum workboat converted to cruiser. Looks a bit like the AK scow tenders. About 50' long, probably pretty shallow draft and beachable. Set up with diving gear, lots of dinghies, nice espresso machine sitting on deck. I assume it spent some of its life in Haida Gwaii from the name. Pretty ideal for a power boat exploring the NW coast from WA - AK. IMG_3388.thumb.JPG.e0a7f21294a61c4975b31801168a8706.JPG

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, boguing said:

I don't know if anyone's mentioned this yet. Petrolheads may love it. I like the boat, but was never a Healey car fan...

https://www.muldershipyard.nl/series/custom-build/healey-1800/

 

That's a very interesting boat. I see that his grandfather was Mr. Healey of Austin- Healey.

At least they didn't put Lucas (Prince of Darkness) electrics on it.

I also trust nothing on it leaks oil.

(Question: Why didn't the English invent television?

Answer: They couldn't figure out a way to make it leak oil.)

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On 1/25/2022 at 3:33 AM, Pertinacious Tom said:

At least, I hope the engine is still good. Only a couple hundred hours on it and it was overheating. I replaced the water pump and checked the thermostat and then handed it to a shop. They're dismantling the power head to see what's in the cooling passages. The answer should damn well be nothing. I'll probably learn what the answer actually is this week.

You have checked the impeller, right?

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On 1/19/2018 at 10:18 AM, Maroon said:

What are your choices for a sailors powerboat?

Any sailboat with an inboard Diesel engine and either a feathering or folding prop.

If I wanted to waterski behind a sailboat I'd get an E-scow. ;-)

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Assuming you have deep pockets, these are beautiful, very classic and made by a famous British yacht builder (their yachts are also used in James Bond films). https://spirityachts.com/spirit-p70/

WM_SPIRIT_P70_092_DJI_0151-1920x1080.thumb.jpg.ed9e5d7deff31537a15e834585fb81bd.jpg

But as slug zitski says, seagull poo could cause issues!

If you have even deeper pockets, they're also building these: https://spirityachts.com/power-yachts/the-royale/

spirit-yachts-royale-drawing-860x1088.thumb.jpg.a071c9febfb339a9098acc321a23721e.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/6/2022 at 7:32 AM, Surfer7 said:

Any sailboat with an inboard Diesel engine and either a feathering or folding prop.

If I wanted to waterski behind a sailboat I'd get an E-scow. ;-)

Or a c-lcass or better yet D class catamaran. I have a picture of that going on in my copy of Twiname's book, Start to Win.

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