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I never understood how the big sport fishers can have those enclosed transoms and ship so much water over the stern.  Seems like the engines would flood, or at least the sliding doors would leak something horrible since it would take 30 min to pump all that water out...

water-over-transom-backing-down-on-sailf

How to Back Down Safely | Sport Fishing Magazine

no friday funnies? - how about your fav fishing pic...? | Fishing ...

 

Backing down.. Is taking it too far??? - Page 2 - The Hull Truth ...

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I might as well wade into this thread since it's a subject close to my heart. I'm a sailor and yacht designer and have been considering the sail or powerboat conundrum for as long as I've had to

As a lifelong sailor on the quest for the "perfect" day boat we developed and built our Momentary lapse of Reason:  A 30 ft powercat for Florida waters.  She easily cruises in the ocean at 22-24 kn an

Sailor's powerboat that I am working on. All carbon. 15 kts with 150 hp. KB PB 7-23-17 by robert perry, on Flickr

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Water tight doors, usually 2, one leading into the rod and gear storage, second door to engine room itself.

Always kept dogged down underway.

And watertight deck hatches in the fish cockpit.

Sliding entry is above fishing cockpit level.

 

 

IMG_20170428_143616127~2.jpg

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At least a half dozen folks I used to race with or against are now sporting 19’-23’ center console boats. 

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On 6/29/2020 at 3:59 PM, jerseyguy said:

At least a half dozen folks I used to race with or against are now sporting 19’-23’ center console boats. 

Just like sailing!

  • Almost zero protection from the elements with all the opportunity to get soaking wet.
  • Just like an Etchells, no way to fuck and not have everyone watching.
  • Girlfriend's gotta wee-wee. Uh oh! At best there might be a head in the console where her hair can get tangled in the steering cables.
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On 7/1/2020 at 4:53 PM, Somebody Else said:

Just like sailing!

  • Almost zero protection from the elements with all the opportunity to get soaking wet.
  • Just like an Etchells, no way to fuck and not have everyone watching.
  • Girlfriend's gotta wee-wee. Uh oh! At best there might be a head in the console where her hair can get tangled in the steering cables.

One of my absolute design requirements on center consoles is at least one padded seating area with 6"6" of length....

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  • 4 weeks later...

Found this gem for exploring the Tampa waters until the J/100 is ready to go.  Designed with Sailors in mind and built by Dickerson Yachts in MD.  Cruise at 12 kts with Perkins 120hp. Shallow draft enough to back in close to sandbars. 

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C29F6C50-4452-4AA0-80DF-F98FCED2B6C3.jpeg

416070DE-0EC8-436F-B393-CBDF67E36B36.jpeg

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5 hours ago, Ismotorsport said:

Found this gem for exploring the Tampa waters until the J/100 is ready to go.  Designed with Sailors in mind and built by Dickerson Yachts in MD.  Cruise at 12 kts with Perkins 120hp. Shallow draft enough to back in close to sandbars. 

DFA0855E-84B7-4419-BF1D-F05FFC5F3762.jpeg

9B44BC04-A283-4A2C-8514-3733D90C58B8.jpeg

C29F6C50-4452-4AA0-80DF-F98FCED2B6C3.jpeg

416070DE-0EC8-436F-B393-CBDF67E36B36.jpeg

That is really lovely in every way! Interior shots? Is it a one-off or production?

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Interesting to see that MOST folks think the transition from sailing to power should be a slow displacement Trawler type boat. OK fine. Me? I went for an Axopar 28. Cruise at 28/30 kts. Still have my sailboat, it’s fast too. 

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16 hours ago, Somebody Else said:

I could turn that into an outstanding Race Committee boat!

Cottage Park Yacht Club uses a boat like that for that exact purpose.  

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9 hours ago, D Wayne G said:

Cruise at 28/30 kts.

"Tolman Alaskan Skiff" ("Jumbo") I have  mentioned in other threads (video added below, different boat):

Tolman_AK2.jpg

Plywood/epoxy/fiberglass construction, 25.5' (he stretched a 24' design slightly), light weight, BEAUTIFUL!

The guy and his wife live north of Seattle and have taken the boat from there all the way to Sitka, Alaska, on the water, ~800+ miles each way as the crow flies.  They are towing it to Florida for the second time where they take it to the Bahamas.  When on the trailer, they use it like an RV.  Very impressive.

https://www.tolmanskiffs.com/
https://smallboatsmonthly.com/article/jumbo/?fbclid=IwAR1MYX9a4r1Njn1wzm2tmf5mQIt-1ejNz3UWAq6-9q48I2fnjT_26GGRdOM
https://www.woodenboat.com/boat-plans-kits/tolman-skiff-jumbo
https://www.proboat.com/2014/09/renn-tolman-and-his-high-endurance-skiff/

 

And some mileage estimates for a different 24 foot Tolman Jumbo from here (Bend, Oregon)
https://www.ifish.net/board/showpost.php?s=862c362a7a1278ad79b716c5baa4c99d&p=4449422

  • 5.00 MPG @ 16.5 knots
  • 4.83 MPG @ 21 knots
  • 3.11 MPG @ 30 knots
  • 2.66 MPG @ 33.5 knots

Good numbers!

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32 minutes ago, ProaSailor said:

 

  • 5.00 MPG @ 16.5 knots
  • 4.83 MPG @ 21 knots
  • 3.11 MPG @ 30 knots
  • 2.66 MPG @ 33.5 knots

Good numbers!

They are great numbers for that sort of boat.   Its all about the weight...

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Is anyone making lightweight boats like this in production form? If I were to ever go over to the dark side, it sure as hell wouldn't be in a trawler. I'd want high efficiency at 15-20kts.

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It depends what you call light. My Axopar28AC is listed at 5,000 lbs. with 350 Merc Verado, dry. It burns 45 ltrs/hour at 4200 rpm.

That is a cruise speed of 25/28 kts  depending on conditions. That’s not quite as good as that Alaskan Skiff but still pretty good. I’m guessing that if you wanted a much lighter boat you would have to go custom build.

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I'm thinking of light as roughly the same weights/lengths as listed for the Tolmans but what I really care about is efficiency. Anything better than 5mpg would be comparable to my sailboat (with the sails down). 

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I saw this in Belfast, Maine.

18’ squadron Yachts Bay Fisherman. 
 

I took an  Hereshoff America Cat (same molds), cut the cabin top off, removed the centerboard trunk and made a great cocktail cruiser years ago. 

Has the nice boom for hauling lobster pots

E5619413-21A7-4724-91E3-1DF7E6026923.jpeg

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We have a house on a small lake that sucks for sailing. We like to take our runabout for a sunset cruise when we are there. In my younger days I used to ski a lot, but not so much since I turned 60. Lake rules restrict LOA to 20'

I would love a boat that is electric powered that could comfortably seat 8-10 and make 8-10 kts. A pontoon would even be OK. It's a small lake and about a 6 mile round trip so range is not an issue. wondering if the Torquedo that makes the equivalent of 20 hp would push a 20' pontoon boat better than 5-6 kts. 

Anyone have any experience? I've looked at some cool little lake boats but they all seem to top out at about 6kts. (Duffy)

But as long as we are dreaming....

 

 

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3 hours ago, On The Hard said:

We have a house on a small lake that sucks for sailing. We like to take our runabout for a sunset cruise when we are there. In my younger days I used to ski a lot, but not so much since I turned 60. Lake rules restrict LOA to 20'

I would love a boat that is electric powered that could comfortably seat 8-10 and make 8-10 kts. A pontoon would even be OK. It's a small lake and about a 6 mile round trip so range is not an issue. wondering if the Torquedo that makes the equivalent of 20 hp would push a 20' pontoon boat better than 5-6 kts. 

Anyone have any experience? I've looked at some cool little lake boats but they all seem to top out at about 6kts. (Duffy)

But as long as we are dreaming....

 

 

20 HP is plenty to go 6 knots on a pontoon.

You can do cool things too. Like Tom's Cowamaran (Tom the Sun Cat guy who is now addicted to PA). See his threads somewhere on SA about it. Or you can do a Stillwater. Or a Plattform 19 from plans.

http://www.stillwaterdesign.com/pages/launches.html

https://www.facebook.com/wakelessdesign/

Or you could put a minnkota on a UFO.

 

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On 8/10/2020 at 5:06 PM, Sail4beer said:

I saw this in Belfast, Maine.

18’ squadron Yachts Bay Fisherman. 
 

I took an  Hereshoff America Cat (same molds), cut the cabin top off, removed the centerboard trunk and made a great cocktail cruiser years ago. 

Has the nice boom for hauling lobster pots

E5619413-21A7-4724-91E3-1DF7E6026923.jpeg

So cool! A red one of those used to live in Barnstable Harbor on the north side of Cape Cod for the longest time. I never knew what it was but I loved staring at it.

 

On 8/2/2020 at 5:28 PM, Ismotorsport said:

Found this gem for exploring the Tampa waters until the J/100 is ready to go.  Designed with Sailors in mind and built by Dickerson Yachts in MD.  Cruise at 12 kts with Perkins 120hp. Shallow draft enough to back in close to sandbars. 

DFA0855E-84B7-4419-BF1D-F05FFC5F3762.jpeg

9B44BC04-A283-4A2C-8514-3733D90C58B8.jpeg

C29F6C50-4452-4AA0-80DF-F98FCED2B6C3.jpeg

416070DE-0EC8-436F-B393-CBDF67E36B36.jpeg

A super cool boat with a beautiful sheerline! Almost looks like a Downeast style boat. Curious why the rudder isn't on a skeg like downeast boats though, I'd think that'd be desirable for cruising the sandbars. Has that been a concern for you at all?

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30 minutes ago, Commercial Boater said:

So cool! A red one of those used to live in Barnstable Harbor on the north side of Cape Cod for the longest time. I never knew what it was but I loved staring at it

I actually saw a red one driving south from the Boston area on the way up but couldn’t get a pic of it since I was driving. Great hull form for a displacement powerboat. Mine is a zombie now  after Sandy waiting with dreams of an onboard electric future. The technology has finally evolved to the point that I can consider it. Not going to wreck the lines with an outboard Torqueedo, they are as ugly as you can get for a marine design. 
 

Might be driving up there for a few days of relaxation in a few weeks after the heat blows out before I head up to Maine for some soul time

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6 minutes ago, Brain-O said:

Does anyone have any information on this 30' Tender?

Derecktor 30 pic[510].pdf

Google can help: https://www.google.com/search?q=Derecktor+High+Speed+Tender

https://derecktor.com/derecktor-built-vessels/

https://www.commonwealthrv.com/Pre-Owned-Inventory-2002-Derecktor-Jet-High-Speed-Tender-30-Ashland-Virginia-7681782

Quote
  • Retail Price: $29,900.00
  • Sale Price: $19,900.00
  • Year: 2002
  • Engine: Yammar 6LP Diesel
  • Length: 30' 0"
  • Beam: 9
  • Propulsion: Jet Drive
  • Hull Material: Fiberglass Reinforced

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2002/derecktor-high-speed-tender-30-3578633/

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  • 1 month later...

We probably will need a “Sailors’ wife’s powerboat”. Mine is thinking of something to run up and down the ICW with a group of sisters/kids/gkids. 
 
We have a boat ramp to ICW at our development, and a 45x12’ slip up at LightKeepers in Little River, SC for Lioness that could hold a pontoon used to shuttle up there. 
 

a bit of research suggests the 1998 4 stroke Honda 15 HP would move it 6kts sedately, and a larger motor more quickly. 
 

boat needs to be towable at <3500 lbs GVWR, and ideally easy enough to operate that Wife/kids/gkids can manage launch/operations and recovery 

seems to be quite a few 20-30’ pontoons on Craigslist and wide price range for new  

brands to favor/avoid ? 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Bob Perry said:

Beer:

LOA 60'

Beam 10.7'

150 hp for 20 knots.

KBXX.jpg

Very interesting.  For those of us not blessed with PNW-scale protected cruising grounds I'm curious to hear your thoughts on stabilization for a long skinny light vessel like that both underway and at anchor.  Fins+flop stopper+pole?  Seakeeper gyro?

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2 hours ago, socalrider said:

Very interesting.  For those of us not blessed with PNW-scale protected cruising grounds I'm curious to hear your thoughts on stabilization for a long skinny light vessel like that both underway and at anchor.  Fins+flop stopper+pole?  Seakeeper gyro?

They make some smaller Seakeeper gyros, might works for this design at just a bit over 15,000 pounds of dis-lacement.

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45 minutes ago, kimbottles said:

They make some smaller Seakeeper gyros, might works for this design at just a bit over 15,000 pounds of dis-lacement.

That's what I was thinking - if you can use the $32k, 550lb Seakeeper 3, no inverter/generator is required - a big alternator will power it underway (85A), and you could even conceivably use it overnight  in a roll-y anchorage if you had a good battery bank and big (2.5kW or so) solar array.  Their specs say it's good up to 10.5T (fine) or 36-39' (hmm).

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21 minutes ago, socalrider said:

That's what I was thinking - if you can use the $32k, 550lb Seakeeper 3, no inverter/generator is required - a big alternator will power it underway (85A), and you could even conceivably use it overnight  in a roll-y anchorage if you had a good battery bank and big (2.5kW or so) solar array.  Their specs say it's good up to 10.5T (fine) or 36-39' (hmm).

Seems that displacement would be more important than LOA. But what do I know, I am not an engineer.

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I really like this one:

https://www.berthoninternational.com/yacht-sales-brokerage/yachts-for-sale/63-nigel-irens-modern-classic-molly-ban-dublin/
 

As a stop gap in between sailboats we have a Chris-Craft launch 28. Pretty boat, fast, but uses a shit ton of gas. And I dislike driving a powerboat for long periods of time that I just want to go faster to get there sooner…

Can you tell I’m shopping for a sailboat?

 

 

 

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When ever I dream of what motor yacht I would like to own, its one of those classic looking clipper motor yachts that could have been a schooner, has a bow sprint, but has no sails.  Not even sure what to call this design or style.  One showed up in Boston harbor a couples summers ago and I instantly fell in love.   They feel like old money and have so much style.

The yacht below, NERO, is what I would consider the powerboat I would want as a sailor....

Corsair Yachts&#39; Nero: Classic Lineage, Modern Nobility - Yachts  International

 

Forget those modern superyachts that have no soul, this has it in spades.....

 

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2 minutes ago, MauiPunter said:

When ever I dream of what motor yacht I would like to own, its one of those classic looking clipper motor yachts that could have been a schooner, has a bow sprint, but has no sails.  Not even sure what to call this design or style.  One showed up in Boston harbor a couples summers ago and I instantly fell in love.   They feel like old money and have so much style.

The yacht below, NERO, is what I would consider the powerboat I would want as a sailor....

Corsair Yachts&#39; Nero: Classic Lineage, Modern Nobility - Yachts  International

Forget those modern superyachts that have no soul, this has it in spades.....

Howe aboute a Monney 185?

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31 minutes ago, Bob Perry said:

Dolphin:

That knife is Sgian Dubh pronounced "scain doo" a traditional Scottish knife worn tucked in your high sock.

and surprisingly for the UK, legal to be worn providing you are wearing a kilt... maximum blade length 3 inches....

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Seakeepers are selling like hotcakes. And the fin stabilizers are also doing brisk business.

Fins are superior to gyros at higher speeds on an installed weight basis; gyros more effective at low or no speed. You can develop a lot of heeling or pitching moment hydrodynamically when moving fast...but the fin makers build "zero speed" options which work well. Once you get past 100 feet the gyros get stupid heavy and numerous though. Oh and expensive.

Client who has run offshore for 30 years told me that after he got his seakeeper, his old buddies don't want to be aboard if it isn"t running.

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Pilothouse watermans work boat with a large open deck, heavy built, deep vee in front, nearly flat halfway back, low draft, glass not wood.  Great for hanging out, running races, what ever you want to do and it is smooth in chop and doesn't buck in waves due to the heavy front with the deep vee, tends to split waves more than go over them.  Been slowly rebuilding one for a little while, replaced the deck, faired bottom, every wire and electrical item replaced and exceeding ABYC recommendations.  Have some electronics to select, been taking that slow due to the lack of availability.  Will eventually repower, current engine is a workhorse and runs well but its old, will be last thing replaced and currently it maxes out around 22kts which seems about perfect.  I only want to go fast when sailing.

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A fairly large number of lightweight sailboat builders and those involved in the engineering either have proposals or boats built that use less fuel than in the past.   Lyman Morse has been contracted to build a 27 foot electric hydrofoil for a new firm.  

Navier 27

A sailors powerboat forces the same questions you would ask someone who is new to sailing.  What do you want to do with it and how much money do you have to spend?   For every letter in the alphabet somebody is targeting sailboat sailors for a new or used powerboat.  

Pick a letter and we have a boat.  How about M?

Melges has a powerboat and Mark Mills has a design.    Tartan bought the molds to an older line of powerboats.  Catalina is trying again with the molds to the Pearson 38 and 34.  Sabre now has two lines of powerboats and has not built a sailboat in more than 10 years.

One of the best ideas for US or Canadian sailors would be a used Ranger Tug.  The 26 footer seems to be the reasonable priced boat.  Go on your adventure and then sell it for close to what you paid for it. 

New Ranger Tugs but go used....much better price

However my favorite powerboat for sailors allows you to still have a sail!  Picture yourself hauling in this mainsail imagining you are crossing the ocean in a gale!   Introducing the Grand Banks Trawler sailboat!   Takes the saying "steady as she goes" to a new level of enjoyment. 

 

36f997b4573049803f6ab896510a41a4.jpg

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For those with pesos...  Two Robert Perry proposals.  The proposal that resembles a short range Hinckley jet boat in red was customized and built.  The big difference being the RP design had a very long range on one tank of fuel for serious cruising.   The second proposal where the owner might prefer to steer from the pilothouse appears to have a lot of potential with new build techniques for much better performance under sail than in the past. (Definitely my favorite).   If neither of these work Kevin Dibley has the answer.  Just put an oversized big honking Yanmar engine in your new Lyman Morse 46 and cruise all day at low double digit speeds...  For the rest of us google Ranger Tug.  Some of the small used ones have Volvo sailboat diesels. 

 

RP Tug.png

Trawler sailboat.jpg

LM 46.jpg

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1 hour ago, fastyacht said:

I like it! I designed a draketail 14 years ago but no cabin -- this one would be versatile.

Off Center Harbor has a great set of videos around this vessel; it has a very innovative propellor as well.  I love it as well.  Also looks like a great candidate for a small Seakeeper to make it more comfortable in a seaway.  

https://www.offcenterharbor.com/videos/going-fast-one-modest-engine-whios-propeller/

image.thumb.png.98c4f0d02ae203524b64e7d039f1cc9f.png

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I haven’t seen a Broom on this thread. Great boat with superb accommodation. This is my boat out cruising on the Atlantic coast of SW Ireland last July. I’ve raced and cruised all sorts over the years but I’d rather cruise a motorboat nowadays as time is a bit limited. 

5D0EDA47-ADF7-41DB-A7C3-7B063B2A15E9.jpeg

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47 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

Firebird Trimaran on Facebook and Apollo Duck, not a lot of money.

May be an image of body of water

 

oh god no.  My brother in the UK sent me the link to that thing a year ago.  Cheap for sure but its been done so badly... 

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On 8/10/2020 at 8:49 PM, fastyacht said:

Like Tom's Cowamaran (Tom the Sun Cat guy who is now addicted to PA). See his threads somewhere on SA about it.

I sold the Sun Cat a while back and am now a Picnic Cat guy.

It's not my Cowmaran, though I'm jockeying for third in line to inherit it. Or maybe fourth, I don't know. It's getting a pair of new 20 hp Suzuki's this week.

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4 hours ago, Lochnerian Tom said:

I sold the Sun Cat a while back and am now a Picnic Cat guy.

It's not my Cowmaran, though I'm jockeying for third in line to inherit it. Or maybe fourth, I don't know. It's getting a pair of new 20 hp Suzuki's this week.

Just put a bunch of hours on my new Suzuki 20. It burns less fuel than I was expecting. Still need to total up my hours and fill-ups, but I think it's well under 1 gallon per hour at around 5000 rpm (tops out at 5800).

Seem like a really nice motor. 

Why a pair of them instead of one?

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3 hours ago, Russell Brown said:

Just put a bunch of hours on my new Suzuki 20. It burns less fuel than I was expecting. Still need to total up my hours and fill-ups, but I think it's well under 1 gallon per hour at around 5000 rpm (tops out at 5800).

Seem like a really nice motor. 

Why a pair of them instead of one?

One outboard for the efficiency, two for the warm and fuzzies (depending on your playground and conditions you’ll be in ;) )

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5 hours ago, nige said:

One outboard for the efficiency, two for the warm and fuzzies (depending on your playground and conditions you’ll be in ;) )

Warm and fuzzies? Single outboard is still safer than flying in a single engine airplane. Have you ever had one quit?

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1 minute ago, Russell Brown said:

Warm and fuzzies? Single outboard is still safer than flying in a single engine airplane. Have you ever had one quit?

Actually I have twice been in a small plane when the engine stopped. I am not a pilot. Both times the pilot managed to get the engine restarted.
 

Not nearly as concerning as sailing in a Force Ten Storm. The engines stopping was quite peaceful and quiet. The storm was LOUD!
 

Small planes glide fairly well, but fortunately we didn’t have to demonstrate that quality either time.

 

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37 minutes ago, Russell Brown said:

Warm and fuzzies? Single outboard is still safer than flying in a single engine airplane. Have you ever had one quit?

I think I had about 90% of your reply correct in my mind when I wrote that ;) 

I LOVE the single engine and want to build a different version of the green tri at some point as the efficiency was so good and I learned so much about what did and didn't work.  But When I'm out on a longer trip, in shitty conditions in Totoro, especially if I have the kids with me etc, it does make me feel better knowing I have two engines, two fuel tanks, batteries and fuel lines.    I'd never had any failures with the 20's on the tri or Totoro at all.   I have had two electrical (boat not outboard) and fuel supply issues since we put the 40's on Totoro- 600  hours ago -  and have come home on one engine once, but its not something I expect or am concerned about.       I'm not saying it would be the choice I'd make on another boat, just that if that is your priority, twins give you that...   (more things = more potential problems too obviously ;) )

 

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It just seems like so much more weight and expense and complexity to design for twin engines, not to mention the fuel burn. I'd rather carry a tiny "get home" motor. I'd like to know how Totoro handles with one engine kicked up. 

I like what Aspen has done with their single engined asymmetrical power cats. I have seen one going by and was struck by how clean the wake was for a big power cat.

The photo is of the wake of my new 23 footer at 18 knots

DSC_0393.jpeg

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