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reefing lines?


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I know of a bunch of 60-odd footers with Endura Braid reef lines.

size/purpose dependent I guess.

or do you mean a dyneema cover as well? that seems a bit much

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I use any low stretch line with any good tight cover. They work to fro on long legs of splashy weather leading to failure. Also I use a sacrificial strop of single braid d yneema at the clew end that is long enough, when reefed, to go around the boom, up to the clew and aft past the sheave where it is eye-to-eye spliced with the covered part. It takes all the wear and tends to wear at the clew or sheave. Easily and inexpensively renewed.

Buoy racers may not need that extravagance.

Endura is a bit stretchy, I recall? Isn’t it a blend?

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Bare dyneema slides more easily and is less weight aloft and less drag in the air.  Reefing lines usually have a lot of turns and go through some sharp turns that aren't around a block, so reducing friction is nice.

My boat has a 3/16" SK78 dyneema reef line.  The tail has a cover that makes it 5/16", and then it is beefed up to 3/8" where the clutch needs to hold it.  The cover came off of some other line that I stripped, so it was cheap to make it this way.

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I've used dyneema core with dyneema tips at the very clew end with great success. Polyester cover works fine at the clutches for reef 1/2, where they can be hammered on with no slop in the system. Technora blend was better for 3/4 when there was a bit more movement, and you're nipping the reef lines.

HW

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I've added chafe sleeve to reef lines on cruising boats that were planning on crossing oceans.  Double up on the cover where it goes through the cringles and still use a dyneema core. You don't want stretch when it's blowing 30-40+ kts.  Is this a race boat, which will typically hang onto a full main or push the boat very hard and not reef much? If so, you can run 3mm dyneema as messenger lines to pull through your 'real' reef lines, even in 40+, then set the reef. 

Horses for courses.  What are the plans for the boat?  

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  • 4 months later...

How do you determine the potential load on the reefing lines? I have a 400sf main and the outhaul is tensioned by a #12 winch on the boom. Looking to clean up the winch/cleat farm  starting with reefing line clutches and blocks, first reef leaves about 300sf. Specs for the #12 winch put its max load at about 1,000 lbs. Would I be safe planning for 1,000 lbs max load on each of the two slab  reefing lines? 

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41 minutes ago, deluxe68 said:

How do you determine the potential load on the reefing lines? I have a 400sf main and the outhaul is tensioned by a #12 winch on the boom. Looking to clean up the winch/cleat farm  starting with reefing line clutches and blocks, first reef leaves about 300sf. Specs for the #12 winch put its max load at about 1,000 lbs. Would I be safe planning for 1,000 lbs max load on each of the two slab  reefing lines? 

How much load can you exert via the mainsheet might be a consideration

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Reefing does not reduce the max loading bcuz that is more of a heeling force load. It may increase the load as the head is lowered causing more force to be required for a given heel angle.

Reef outhauls are often doubled at the clew, reducing the line load. However the less-than-optimum sharp bends and abrasion would negate that.

I would use whatever line size is typical on your boat. My reef outhauls are the same as my halyards and sheets. Seems to work well enough.

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3 hours ago, Rushman said:

How much load can you exert via the mainsheet might be a consideration

But right now, the outhaul winch on the boom is only rated for 1,000 pounds working load. I just installed a new Harken traveler and they (Harken) recommended Black Magic 75’s for the mainsheet blocks and they are rated at 5000 lbs. 

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12 minutes ago, deluxe68 said:

But right now, the outhaul winch on the boom is only rated for 1,000 pounds working load. I just installed a new Harken traveler and they (Harken) recommended Black Magic 75’s for the mainsheet blocks and they are rated at 5000 lbs. 

What holds the clew of the sail to the boom?  Car in a track or webbing around the boom?

Reefing the sail requires the reef line to hold the clew somewhere near the boom while the mainsheet is trying to pull the boom and clew apart.  The max outhaul load is irrelevant when reefed.

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On 2/8/2018 at 12:30 PM, Alex W said:

Bare dyneema slides more easily and is less weight aloft and less drag in the air.  Reefing lines usually have a lot of turns and go through some sharp turns that aren't around a block, so reducing friction is nice.

My boat has a 3/16" SK78 dyneema reef line.  The tail has a cover that makes it 5/16", and then it is beefed up to 3/8" where the clutch needs to hold it.  The cover came off of some other line that I stripped, so it was cheap to make it this way.

I'm doing the lazy man's version of this with 3/8" Control DPX from one end to the other. A bit higher windage but very little stretch, decent in the hand, light weight, grabs okay in the clutch. 

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I used Endura thinking the polyester cover would resist chafe. What happened where there was chafe was the cover quickly chafes through and then the Dyneema core is fine and lasts a long time in the same spot. When they are replaced they will be bare Dyneema 12, with only whatever is necessary for the clutches. I used Vectran for the bare tails up to the cringles (my boat has an odd single line system), it has not faired well in the sun or chafe, nor is it free running. Next time, again Dyneema 12 strand.  

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I use sacrificial uncovered Dyneema ends on my reefing outhauls. Just enough to tie to the boom, extend thru the cringle, and get past all the abrasion. It is a loop of Dyneema that simply passes thru a spliced eye on the expensive standing part. I sail long offshore legs with reefs so chafe is a big issue. The winch load in a blow is about the same as the halyard....both are extreme.

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4 hours ago, Rushman said:

What holds the clew of the sail to the boom?  Car in a track or webbing around the boom?

Reefing the sail requires the reef line to hold the clew somewhere near the boom while the mainsheet is trying to pull the boom and clew apart.  The max outhaul load is irrelevant when reefed.

Would the load on the reefing line (with a 75% main) be more, equal, or less than the outhaul (with 100% main) under the same wind speed? 

Under reefing,  the clew is held by the reefing line which is tied around the boom. It goes aft around pulleys in the end of the boom, and exits under the boom a foot from the mast. 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, deluxe68 said:

Would the load on the reefing line (with a 75% main) be more, equal, or less than the outhaul (with 100% main) under the same wind speed? 

Under reefing,  the clew is held by the reefing line which is tied around the boom. It goes aft around pulleys in the end of the boom, and exits under the boom a foot from the mast. 

 

 

Assuming that the clew is held to the boom via a track or webbing, the outhaul is only stretching the sail along the boom.

When reefed the reef line is stretching the sail along the boom AND keeping the clew near the boom.  The loads are much higher

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Just heard back from Harken technical support. They recommended the Cruising 57mm ESP blocks #6059, about a hundred dollars safe load of 2205 lbs. I think I will go with the 75 ESP with a load rating of 3500 for $15 more. Thanks for everyones input.

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  • 1 year later...
On 2/8/2018 at 3:30 PM, Alex W said:

Bare dyneema slides more easily and is less weight aloft and less drag in the air.  Reefing lines usually have a lot of turns and go through some sharp turns that aren't around a block, so reducing friction is nice.

My boat has a 3/16" SK78 dyneema reef line.  The tail has a cover that makes it 5/16", and then it is beefed up to 3/8" where the clutch needs to hold it.  The cover came off of some other line that I stripped, so it was cheap to make it this way.

Alex-I am thinking of converting to this system-how has it held up?  I am going to use the Dyneema core (without the poly cover) for the 2nd reefing line where it exits the boom at the leech (light weight aloft, low friction through the sheaves) with the cover added on where it runs through the clutchs for grip.  Has anyone else who has used this had any problems with this setup?

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It’s worked well.  Most of my halyards are also made this way and get a lot more use and are also holding up well. 
 

The hardest part is getting the new cover on tightly so that it doesn’t slip.  I do this by fixing the core and cover together at one end and milking it a lot. It’s helpful put to the setup under load too. 

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18 minutes ago, mpbeagle said:

I imagine you whip the cover in place at both ends once it is where you want it by milking it.

 

Actually, you bury it first, then lockstitch it.

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  • 1 month later...
17 hours ago, Kenny Dumas said:

What would Brion do?

You responded to a post from April with that? Jesus dude. 

On topic: We are solidly in the cruiser camp...but this, to me, is a perfect application for poly double braid. I am happy with a bit of stretch to dampen shock loads then reefed. Likely to be an unpopular opinion here!

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