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so i haven't seen the forecast yet, i'm figuring it'll favor the 50 somethings again.

Will Sandy let Ricko on the boat .

Will BJ increase RM to have a chance at the other big boys?

Will R88 come back for a chance at glory ?

Will LB pilot the Big C to a respectable 3rd place?

so many questions with the race just 10 months away !!

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OK...so I've nearly sobered up... and want to say a few things to the SA team that have followed the Voodoo story. Firstly  - Thank you for your support and input! From the outset I've put though

I was on shore for my live interview show, and then live with the ABC Grandstand radio for the start.  Channel 7 has full rights to all live vision - so there was really no point going on the wat

I have received dozen emails/private messages about my tracker for this year. I have updated to new Windy version and I hope it will work on boxing day https://gis.ee/sh/

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8 hours ago, Svanen said:

Ricko will almost certainly be on the boat. Sandy is quite invested in his ongoing participation.

Does Wild Oats XI compete in any other races besides the Hobart?

I thought Oats was sold and the crew were told that it was the last trip south?

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8 hours ago, Svanen said:

Ricko will almost certainly be on the boat. Sandy is quite invested in his ongoing participation.

Does Wild Oats XI compete in any other races besides the Hobart?

Over the years it's done all the major east coast races + numerous HI race weeks. Did one maxi World titles & one transpacific too. Being home at Xmas to defend the SH kinda makes OS trips hard.

If it was absent from Woolwich surely keen Sydneysiders would have let us know. 

Disney would be the most likely buyer I could think of, they changed the TP rules to allow canters, prob others though. 

 

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5 hours ago, SCANAS said:

I don't think Sandy has the same passion for it as Bob did but the Sandys son is pretty keen. 

it would really suck to see WOXI retired. its been the center piece of my entertainment during the holiday season.

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On 2/21/2018 at 1:44 PM, bigrpowr said:

so i haven't seen the forecast yet, i'm figuring it'll favor the 50 somethings again.

Will Sandy let Ricko on the boat .

Will BJ increase RM to have a chance at the other big boys?

Will R88 come back for a chance at glory ?

Will LB pilot the Big C to a respectable 3rd place?

so many questions with the race just 10 months away !!

Whats the weather doing?

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Ok...so here's the challenge.

Your goal is to win the S2H (on handicap - the real race!)

You have a very comfortable budget.

You have to buy an existing yacht (not build a new one) from anywhere in the world.

Now....what do you buy & why?

Serious kudos to the best (serious) answer........

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Couta said:

Ok...so here's the challenge.

Your goal is to win the S2H (on handicap - the real race!)

You have a very comfortable budget.

You have to buy an existing yacht (not build a new one) from anywhere in the world.

Now....what do you buy & why?

Serious kudos to the best (serious) answer........

 

 

Cookson 50. I just love those boats. 

I reckon I'd do ok with my existing ride if the conditions were like last year. But any sustained light air and I'd be fucked.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, shaggybaxter said:

Cookson 50. I just love those boats. 

I reckon I'd do ok with my existing ride if the conditions were like last year. But any sustained light air and I'd be fucked.

 

 

My pick too!

Or Envy Scooters (ex Itchy Bum ex Shogun V, ex Azzurra) with a larger rudder.  That boat is just a life support system for spinnakers.

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2 hours ago, huwp said:

Could you buy a multi and take that or is the forecast no good ?

rumor has it the queen mary will be racing the fleet, hopefully they add a 4th start line for them in the rear .

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12 hours ago, Couta said:

Ok...so here's the challenge.

Your goal is to win the S2H (on handicap - the real race!)

You have a very comfortable budget.

You have to buy an existing yacht (not build a new one) from anywhere in the world.

Now....what do you buy & why?

Serious kudos to the best (serious) answer........

 

 

Ichi Ban

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some good responses - Cookson 50 and TP/Pac 52's getting a solid run....

What about the idea that the 50 - 52 ft range gets a little crowded, so it's more competitive and reduces the chance of a win. Why not consider something in the 60-70ft space where there is less competition? Looks like Sean Langman might be doing that(??)

On that basis the R/P 63 (Loki/Limit) might be a consideration..

Thoughts?

 

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6 hours ago, Couta said:

On that basis the R/P 63 (Loki/Limit) might be a consideration..

A shame the RP63/66's of Loki, WOX and Alive/BJ1 never lined up against each other in a S2H at the same time and in conditions up their alley. Would have been good to watch and one of nicest looking boats going.

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4 hours ago, SCANAS said:

He's cutting off the amas, fitting a keel a canting deck & entering the Orma60. Same builder who rebuilt Wild Thing in 2012 is doing the work. 

The X-wing fighter concept from years ago? I'll believe it when I see it.... I'll happily eat my words if it does happen.

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3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

A shame the RP63/66's of Loki, WOX and Alive/BJ1 never lined up against each other in a S2H at the same time and in conditions up their alley. Would have been good to watch and one of nicest looking boats going.

2008.... It was a 3 way match race, and a flat out drag race from Tasman Island to the finish.

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45 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Thanks Jason.. a year I was buried on other side of the orange. I see Limit, Alive/BJ1 and Loki in a bunch 3 or so hours behind WOXI but no RP66 WOX?

 

45 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Thanks Jason.. a year I was buried on other side of the orange. I see Limit, Alive/BJ1 and Loki in a bunch 3 or so hours behind WOXI but no RP66 WOX?

No worries. IIRC the Oats 66 has only ever been to Hobart once (this year just gone).

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I think RAGAMUFFIN 100 will get over the line 1st if whitty is still sailing ,he has learned/improving a lot since the start of the Volvo learning from

the big boys now !!!!!! compared to the start also the mistakes they made sailing Rags's when launched and at Hammo.

Where do think Richo would be if he was skippering a Volvo yacht ???

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On ‎2‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 8:45 AM, Couta said:

Ok...so here's the challenge.

Your goal is to win the S2H (on handicap - the real race!)

You have a very comfortable budget.

You have to buy an existing yacht (not build a new one) from anywhere in the world.

Now....what do you buy & why?

Serious kudos to the best (serious) answer........

 

 

Going with a 30 footer that rates 0.8500 IRC because after last year we are due for the mother of all blow homes!

Defiance (2).jpg

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1 hour ago, lydia said:

Going with a 30 footer that rates 0.8500 IRC because after last year we are due for the mother of all blow homes!

Defiance (2).jpg

 

1 hour ago, SCANAS said:

When are try outs? 

 

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On 23/02/2018 at 9:45 AM, Couta said:

Ok...so here's the challenge.

Your goal is to win the S2H (on handicap - the real race!)

You have a very comfortable budget.

You have to buy an existing yacht (not build a new one) from anywhere in the world.

Now....what do you buy & why?

Serious kudos to the best (serious) answer........

 

 

Never done one. Hopefully never will.

I have a medical condition that prevents me sitting on a  leg and arse numbing toerail getting  hit in the face by buckets of cold water thrown on me for days on end. I think the technical medical term is called commonsense. 

But it’s still interesting. 

The beauty of your well sorted ratings system (despite some whingers) is that there has been such a variety of winners. WOXI one day Love n War the next. Every well sailed (and lucky) dog has had its day. With the unpredictability of the weather it makes it a bit of a lottery and thus a bit of fun and keeps you mugs coming back for more. 

Anything on its day can win. 

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3 hours ago, lydia said:

Going with a 30 footer that rates 0.8500 IRC because after last year we are due for the mother of all blow homes!

Defiance (2).jpg

Please pretty please tell me you’re entering Defiance Lydia.

That would be something pretty special.

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48 minutes ago, LionIsland said:

Never done one. Hopefully never will.

I have a medical condition that prevents me sitting on a  leg and arse numbing toerail getting  hit in the face by buckets of cold water thrown on me for days on end. I think the technical medical term is called commonsense. 

But it’s still interesting. 

The beauty of your well sorted ratings system (despite some whingers) is that there has been such a variety of winners. WOXI one day Love n War the next. Every well sailed (and lucky) dog has had its day. With the unpredictability of the weather it makes it a bit of a lottery and thus a bit of fun and keeps you mugs coming back for more. 

Anything on its day can win. 

Yeah then all you need is a rating bandit & 10 brand new sails & a gun pro (cough semi-pro$) crew & a weather window. 

2017 Brand New crack TP52

2016 VO70 in record breaking weather  

2015 Multiple race winner TP52 + new sails

2014 Heavily optimised, Multiple winner Farr43, Syd 38 rig, farr40od jibs, 4 new kites + new zero & noakes bottom job + good inventory 

2013 Cookson 50

2012 RP 100' Supermaxi 

 

Balance on their 2015 win:

Balance competed with an inventory of 15 sails for this year’s RSHYR, of which the crew hoisted 12 of the 15 (they never used the storm trysail, storm jib or #5). Nine of the 12 sails used during the race were Ullman Sails, including the J1 light, offshore 3.5 jib, genoa staysail, spinnaker staysail, 1A+ spinnaker, 2A, and masthead code zero. The team also used an Ullman Sails FiberPath Phantom mainsail, which was on its second Hobart after being used in the 2014 race, and an 18-month-old 4A spinnaker.

 

& Roger (RIP) explaining his 2014 sail inventory & prep: 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, SCANAS said:

Yeah then all you need is a rating bandit & 10 brand new sails & a gun pro (cough semi-pro$) crew & a weather window. 

Balance on their 2015 win:

Balance competed with an inventory of 15 sails for this year’s RSHYR, of which the crew hoisted 12 of the 15 (they never used the storm trysail, storm jib or #5). Nine of the 12 sails used during the race were Ullman Sails, including the J1 light, offshore 3.5 jib, genoa staysail, spinnaker staysail, 1A+ spinnaker, 2A, and masthead code zero. The team also used an Ullman Sails FiberPath Phantom mainsail, which was on its second Hobart after being used in the 2014 race, and an 18-month-old 4A spinnaker.

2015 was oh-so-close to not being Balance, don't forget.

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I’m into multis however I can secretly hide behind my alias on here and quietly admit my favourite inshore mono (which I’ve raced on in the long distant past though not relevant here) is an Adams 10 and my favourite offshore mono is Adams 13,14 or 15. That would be my pick. Beautiful sleek things (did I actually say that out loud??) that slice upwind and charge off the breeze. 

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Anyone here read "Moneyball"? That's the kind of analysis I'm looking for. A Boat that has the certificate and the water line length that puts it at risk of being on the podium - based on track records. I want the one that "shoulda won"

So you people who follow the race closely, know your boats, crews and conditions for the races - I'm keen to hear your analysis. I agree the Cookson 50 has to be part of the equation - and the Hicko interview, while self deprecating was also insightful....I agree that even defiance could be a challenger (but it'd still be an outsider!). Seriously crunch the numbers, look at the competition and give us your best bet!

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The bloke who has probably spent as much time as all of us put together "crunching the numbers" has entered a both a (hopefully) bulletproof 60' er & a TP for about the last 3 years.  Not sure what your budget is but you could possibly add a good upwind 30 - 35'er to these 2,  to cover an upwind year which goes NE on the 3rd day.  Oh & you might want to throw a few bucks at the weather man to help you choose.

I've done over 20 of these things & had results from the front to the back on both line & handicap with some of the dud results being on boats that should have been up there & some great results on boats that had little chance when we left Sydney.

 

TUBBY

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17 hours ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

 

Great band... love Jay and the Docter seen them many times

 

7 hours ago, TUBBY said:

The bloke who has probably spent as much time as all of us put together "crunching the numbers" has entered a both a (hopefully) bulletproof 60' er & a TP for about the last 3 years.  Not sure what your budget is but you could possibly add a good upwind 30 - 35'er to these 2,  to cover an upwind year which goes NE on the 3rd day.  Oh & you might want to throw a few bucks at the weather man to help you choose.

I've done over 20 of these things & had results from the front to the back on both line & handicap with some of the dud results being on boats that should have been up there & some great results on boats that had little chance when we left Sydney.

 

TUBBY

Good point Tubby

Matt Allen has the resources and the knowledge so look no further than his choices to answer this question

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10 hours ago, Couta said:

Anyone here read "Moneyball"? That's the kind of analysis I'm looking for. A Boat that has the certificate and the water line length that puts it at risk of being on the podium - based on track records. I want the one that "shoulda won"

So you people who follow the race closely, know your boats, crews and conditions for the races - I'm keen to hear your analysis. I agree the Cookson 50 has to be part of the equation - and the Hicko interview, while self deprecating was also insightful....I agree that even defiance could be a challenger (but it'd still be an outsider!). Seriously crunch the numbers, look at the competition and give us your best bet!

Couta, flattering but credit where credit is due, I would have to displace Duncan here first.

Although he had the benefit the odd blow home in other races.

 

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11 hours ago, Couta said:

Anyone here read "Moneyball"? That's the kind of analysis I'm looking for. A Boat that has the certificate and the water line length that puts it at risk of being on the podium - based on track records. I want the one that "shoulda won"

So you people who follow the race closely, know your boats, crews and conditions for the races - I'm keen to hear your analysis. I agree the Cookson 50 has to be part of the equation - and the Hicko interview, while self deprecating was also insightful....I agree that even defiance could be a challenger (but it'd still be an outsider!). Seriously crunch the numbers, look at the competition and give us your best bet!

you're never going to be able to pick one boat due to the weather gods.

I'd be selecting a top boat in some speed bands. top end, 50+ft, 40-50ft, bottom end.

The fast 50's (TP52 etc) seem to currently be on the pace to get into the river at the right time in 'normal' conditions. You don't want to be betting on something that's likely to be in storm bay in the late afternoon or night.

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I don’t think you would want anything under 45ft. The Chutzpah program seems to have proved that 40ft just can’t go quick enough to claw back the time lost going upwind, and loses out reaching. And I say that with the greatest respect for the Chutzpah guys who sail that boat to its potential.

The days of the 30ft blow home are most likely passed. I know Azzuro came close a few years ago, but the newer boats are now too fast and light for the Defiances to make up the time. Possibly if we had a 1984 style demolition derby - say the first 48 hours 35 - 40 knots on the snout - followed by a decent northerly, they might get up Bradbury style.

So 50ft is probably your start point. Very light, very strong and a good all rounder, I.e. not optimised too far into one corner of the box.

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There will be someone keen to buy Oats I would have thought? Given their performance and staying so close to Comanche in those conditions. Early days. Agree that if Chutzpah couldn't win in those conditions then can't see them winning going forward. There will be more new 50's come I would think as Ichi Ban seems to be perfect it seems? 

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29 minutes ago, greasy al said:

I don’t think you would want anything under 45ft. The Chutzpah program seems to have proved that 40ft just can’t go quick enough to claw back the time lost going upwind, and loses out reaching. And I say that with the greatest respect for the Chutzpah guys who sail that boat to its potential.

I reckon Chutzpah has gone too far in the design/rating corner

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33 minutes ago, greasy al said:

I don’t think you would want anything under 45ft. The Chutzpah program seems to have proved that 40ft just can’t go quick enough to claw back the time lost going upwind, and loses out reaching. And I say that with the greatest respect for the Chutzpah guys who sail that boat to its potential.

The days of the 30ft blow home are most likely passed. I know Azzuro came close a few years ago, but the newer boats are now too fast and light for the Defiances to make up the time. Possibly if we had a 1984 style demolition derby - say the first 48 hours 35 - 40 knots on the snout - followed by a decent northerly, they might get up Bradbury style.

So 50ft is probably your start point. Very light, very strong and a good all rounder, I.e. not optimised too far into one corner of the box.

Don't forget we're only talking IRC here... ORCi has mixed things up a little more, but even that seems to be dominated by the 50's

2017 - Quest/Balance (TP52, downwind slide)

2016 - UBOX (Cookson 50)

2015 - Azzurro (S&S 34, Balance an hour behind)

2014 - Ariel (First 40). Div 3/4 took the silverware

2013 - Victoire (Cookson 50)

2012 - Black Jack (RP66)

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44 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

There will be someone keen to buy Oats I would have thought? Given their performance and staying so close to Comanche in those conditions. Early days. Agree that if Chutzpah couldn't win in those conditions then can't see them winning going forward. There will be more new 50's come I would think as Ichi Ban seems to be perfect it seems? 

you gotta assume oats would go fast , she was faster than C , the only question now is C's decision making towards the end . WOXI was very impressive down the stretch .

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S2H IRC results going back a little further.....

2008 - Quest 1st (TP 52)

2009 - Ran 1st  (JV 72)

2010 - Secret Mens 3.5 1st (RP 55)

2011- Loki 1st (RP63) Jazz 4th (canting Cookson 50) 

2012 - Wild Oats 1st - Loki 2nd , Jazz made 4th again 

Interesting to note - Loki never beat Limit over the line in the S2H...and won when Limit didn't compete...

Could Limit be a dark horse? Or has the development of TP52's overtaken her? Also, if rolling the dice (its the S2H after all!) would adding another 50 footish boat to the fleet increase your individual chances of winning, given the number of players in this space? would you be better off (on average) going into a 60-70ft size that would likely separate you from the 50 foot pack?

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7 hours ago, Couta said:

S2H IRC results going back a little further.....

2008 - Quest 1st (TP 52)

2009 - Ran 1st  (JV 72)

2010 - Secret Mens 3.5 1st (RP 55)

2011- Loki 1st (RP63) Jazz 4th (canting Cookson 50) 

2012 - Wild Oats 1st - Loki 2nd , Jazz made 4th again 

Interesting to note - Loki never beat Limit over the line in the S2H...and won when Limit didn't compete...

Could Limit be a dark horse? Or has the development of TP52's overtaken her? Also, if rolling the dice (its the S2H after all!) would adding another 50 footish boat to the fleet increase your individual chances of winning, given the number of players in this space? would you be better off (on average) going into a 60-70ft size that would likely separate you from the 50 foot pack?

I guess that's the rationale behind Matt Allens Carkeek 60 that he enters in the Hobart every year as well as his TP52 du jour. 

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1 hour ago, hoppy said:

Perhaps he should find an old classic racer and throw lots of money at it to cover the other end of the race conditions.

If you had a shitload of money to spend on a "small"old boat to totally modernise it whilst taking advantage of the age allowance to give you a chance of winning in a slow race, like Wild Rose did, what would you buy?

That's Easy. 

Wild Rose

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6 minutes ago, lydia said:

Couta

Limit now Aszhou  was listed at USD 685K

Loki now listed with Riechel Pugh brokerage at AUD $2.0m

Limit was much better and nicer built than Loki IMHO

detailing was a lot better as well.

 

Fuck the rating. Sell your fleet & buy this! 

http://www.ybw.com/boats-for-sale/6219150?currency=

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2 hours ago, hoppy said:

Perhaps he should find an old classic racer and throw lots of money at it to cover the other end of the race conditions.

If you had a shitload of money to spend on a "small"old boat to totally modernise it whilst taking advantage of the age allowance to give you a chance of winning in a slow race, like Wild Rose did, what would you buy?

Hoppy, 

I would go a Inglis 47 or a Farr 11.6 / Farr 38 / Farr IMS 38 (all the same hull )

 

The Inglis 47’s were designed way ahead of their time as a good fast Boat and the age allowance for the design and the build is 30+ years. Also you would pick up the timber strip planking bonus as well in the rating.

 

I’ve been talking to the “Wild One” boys about the changes they are looking at. Lengthen the Boat to 50 footer. Second hand TP52 mast, sails, keel fin, bulb  and rudder. Just think  if you were sailing even around the middle of the fleet ish,  your rating would be close to getting you across the line on IRC in a lot of races. 

 

The other design  to look at is the Farr 11.6 / Farr 38 / Farr IMS 38.  These Boat are all from the same hull mould as the Farr 11.6 and was designed back in 1978 ish. The only difference between the boats is the freeboard, sugar scoop, deck, keel and rudder package. I’m told that the binks moulds are still sitting in Adelaide. So if money was no problem, new hand laid build out of the mould with up dated laminate to give the boat a diet from 5500 kgs to 4500 - 4750 kgs and Farr 40 keel, mast and sail package. All though it would be a new build the design age allowance would get you across the line on IRC. 

 

Pulpit 

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On 23/02/2018 at 9:45 AM, Couta said:

Ok...so here's the challenge.

Your goal is to win the S2H (on handicap - the real race!)

You have a very comfortable budget.

You have to buy an existing yacht (not build a new one) from anywhere in the world.

Now....what do you buy & why?

Serious kudos to the best (serious) answer........

 

 

Well, knowing that the smoking downhill, record breaking run of the last two years back to back is a Hobart race anomaly... I'd be picking up something like the Botin 65' Caro.

 

It won't go downhill or across the hill like a pure raceboat would, but with any sort of upwind or mixed conditions she'd be more than ok. In a 48 hour race, you'd need to be 2-3 hours quicker than (say) Balance or Ichi Ban in their 2017 configuration but dinner would have been "served with your choice of either Shiraz or Chambourcin, and a very cheeky little Gewurztraminer with the apple crumble and vanilla bean ice cream.

 

What's that Matt? You ate freeze dried teriyaki chicken from a plastic bowl while crouched on the cabin floor? How... quaint. It sounds positively bracing."

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9 minutes ago, jackolantern said:

That's what I thought. Although the current owner of Loki just upgraded to the 2012 Bella Mente, its probably unofficially for sale, I don't think anyone would dream of listing that boat at over 1m. Maybe 2m in Rubles.....

From memory, as Loki it was listed at $2m for ages (something like 18 months?) and ended up selling to the Lucky team for $1m cash and a TP52 in trade. That was the number I was given by a local broker.

 

The TP52 was immediately sold in transit to Australia to become Koa, but the total cash in hand for Loki's owner was still well short of $2 million. I say well short for me as anything more than $100k I'd consider big money...

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53 minutes ago, Jason AUS said:

Well, knowing that the smoking downhill, record breaking run of the last two years back to back is a Hobart race anomaly... I'd be picking up something like the Botin 65' Caro.

 

It won't go downhill or across the hill like a pure raceboat would, but with any sort of upwind or mixed conditions she'd be more than ok. In a 48 hour race, you'd need to be 2-3 hours quicker than (say) Balance or Ichi Ban in their 2017 configuration but dinner would have been "served with your choice of either Shiraz or Chambourcin, and a very cheeky little Gewurztraminer with the apple crumble and vanilla bean ice cream.

 

What's that Matt? You ate freeze dried teriyaki chicken from a plastic bowl while crouched on the cabin floor? How... quaint. It sounds positively bracing."

yep, that's my new powerball dream boat right there. 

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6 hours ago, Hold Fast said:

speaking of 2nd hand RP's - is the 42 footer Rikki still up for grabs?

always liked that one. 

 

Saw this one in Hobart after 2012 S-H. Nice looking boat and Ray Haslar certainly knows how to put them together.... but it hasn't exactly lined his shelves with silver

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On 2/27/2018 at 3:21 PM, Last Post said:

Saw this one in Hobart after 2012 S-H. Nice looking boat and Ray Haslar certainly knows how to put them together.... but it hasn't exactly lined his shelves with silver

i think for the dollars, i'd probably opt for something more like Cadibarra 8 if i was going to play the 2nd hand fast 40ish div 2 S2H game. 

I wouldn't call her the prettiest of boats (does grow on you imo), but from what little i know about her she goes hard and had a good maintenance program. 

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