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OK...so I've nearly sobered up... and want to say a few things to the SA team that have followed the Voodoo story. Firstly  - Thank you for your support and input! From the outset I've put though

I was on shore for my live interview show, and then live with the ABC Grandstand radio for the start.  Channel 7 has full rights to all live vision - so there was really no point going on the wat

I have received dozen emails/private messages about my tracker for this year. I have updated to new Windy version and I hope it will work on boxing day https://gis.ee/sh/

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12 hours ago, lydia said:

Unfortunately we are overdue for a reality check so a low like last week forming on Xmas day would be good

 

1 hour ago, SCANAS said:

Pretty interesting interview with David Witt - 

Seems Witty agrees with you that a belting maybe overdue. 

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Bird Is leaders past Norah Head and half way mark in sight beyond that, currently 10-15k NE. Big boat race corrected so far with Comanche & InfoTrack leading the way and Langman's RP leading the 60 footers for LH. Celestial was only T52 ahead of Couta and Voodoo lads on corrected, but there might be some changes coming soon from likes of Blackjack and Ichi for the downhill run home.

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Comanche nearly home. 6 mile overall or 3 mile between each seperates Naval Group, Voodoo and Ichi in that order. Ichi and BJ going up the ladder closing on Comanches corrected. Breeze still 10/15k steady NE so still anybodies race.

Might be Langman's Naval Group and Alive the two RP's beating each other to death side by side going south on the 26th?

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3 hours ago, SloopJohnB said:

Of the photos above the first one BJ looks the most efficient, not to much heel and pushing forward.

 

Any results up??

Comanche smacked BJ by 23 minutes and Infotrack a further 7 minutes behind BJ. Ichi Ban corrected the win by a lunch break. Comanche got a 3rd in IRC, now that's impressive. The righting moment, beam and sail carrying capacity of the Big Indian gives them so many modes. They need a big boat to carry those sails. 

Celestial 2nd on IRC and Voodoo 4th. Not a bad effort for Voodoo. Triton disappointing 

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3 hours ago, SCANAS said:

A wise man once said “you do enough miles you sink a few boats” 

True but that was in the past. We live in the digital age now. Sinking the boats is ok, it's when you lose people in the process that isn't. 

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9 hours ago, SloopJohnB said:

Of the photos above the first one BJ looks the most efficient, not to much heel and pushing forward.

Nah, if you look carefully, there's nothing actually set on the forestay - wasted opportunity!

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12 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

How many gears have we got left in those roller blinds?

 

47261130_2279579518945233_3012177237471395840_o.thumb.jpg.8d4f0c15f5201ea2cfd3f6e85aac789d.jpg

Love the way that when they're overpowered, they flag the staysail - that'll help!

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4 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Helsa 3 - Come on guys, you can even buy Navionics Australia for your phone. A quick glance every now and then is all you need to do..! And you want to do the Hobart..? -_-

https://www.navionics.com.au/

 

They very nearly put it on long Reed in the cabbage tree. emergency tack when they saw the white water.

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9 hours ago, terrafirma said:

  Comanche smacked BJ by 23 minutes and Infotrack a further 7 minutes behind BJ...Comanche got a 3rd in IRC, now that's impressive.

A up and back race under a steady 10/15k after a soft start and a rock solid TWD. Those conditions and resultant TWA's probably sit around Comanche's 75% optimum numbers, for BJ higher than that.

"Impressive"??? ."scary" is the word that comes more quickly to mind. WOXI hiding in the kennel or has an answer to that but keeping it under wraps? 

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30 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

A up and back race under a steady 10/15k after a soft start and a rock solid TWD. Those conditions and resultant TWA's probably sit around Comanche's 75% optimum numbers, for BJ higher than that.

"Impressive"??? ."scary" is the word that comes more quickly to mind. WOXI hiding in the kennel or has an answer to that but keeping it under wraps? 

WOXI  to be a late scratching from the big show? The Injun is a different and much more dangerous beast this year. Oats and Ricko on a hiding to nothing.

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Ok...so a very easy Bird Island race for most. From a Voodoo perspective generally a good performance with some obvious lost opportunities. Our starts have been too conservative and we need to get more aggressive. Concerns for Big Boat clear air & traffic pushed us too far down the line and locked us into the west channel when our game plan had been to hold the eastern side...net loss and conceding time to those who nailed it. Second mistake was underestimating tide (supposedly slack?) at the heads and tacking up the middle instead of tacking right in on the Nth Head (TP's did it and smashed us)....This was my misjudgement and cost us again. "Not a local" has it's disadvantages!!

The forecast was spot on and we should have trusted it more by putting a few more degrees in the bank in the approach to Nora Hd as the wind went left. Boats ahead made the island without a tack...we had to put in one worth 6 minutes.....that said, so did everyone else, but we had an option earlier and should've put a little in the bank.

Finally, the breeze built from behind on the run home and carried the smaller lighter TPs back into contention. 

4th for us was a reasonable result in very benign conditions that suited others better. The Sunday training session was another solid step forward for the Voodoo croo. Overall, we're happy with the way the program is coming together...

And regarding Comanche - those guys are working a very well disciplined plan. They're putting in the hard yards and getting the result.

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11 hours ago, hoppy said:

I noticed that when they showed Infotrack you could see where the Loyal was on the hull

Only thing I noticed was Cros's continuing use of utterly shit background music.

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17 minutes ago, Couta said:

And regarding Comanche - those guys are working a very well disciplined plan. They're putting in the hard yards and getting the result.

You get what you pay for. 

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31 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Yeah I think Comanche did OK during the start it was very light and they were with BJ. What I did notice was Ichi ban leaving the heads in the video, very well  balanced clean looking boat. 

And Itchy sailing with a crew of 14....we were down a few on headcount with just 12 and feeling the pain of being light on the rail....

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21 minutes ago, Couta said:

And Itchy sailing with a crew of 14....we were down a few on headcount with just 12 and feeling the pain of being light on the rail....

12 is light on for sure. Are you sailing with 15 for the Hobart? 

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13 hours ago, Flatbag said:

WOXI  to be a late scratching from the big show? The Injun is a different and much more dangerous beast this year. Oats and Ricko on a hiding to nothing.

hahaha

36 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Yeah I think Comanche did OK during the start it was very light and they were with BJ. What I did notice was Ichi ban leaving the heads in the video, very well  balanced clean looking boat. 

No the Indian's cuppa but yes they have improved there

1 hour ago, Couta said:

Ok...so a very easy Bird Island race for most. From a Voodoo perspective generally a good performance with some obvious lost opportunities. Our starts have been too conservative and we need to get more aggressive. Concerns for Big Boat clear air & traffic pushed us too far down the line and locked us into the west channel when our game plan had been to hold the eastern side...net loss and conceding time to those who nailed it. Second mistake was underestimating tide (supposedly slack?) at the heads and tacking up the middle instead of tacking right in on the Nth Head (TP's did it and smashed us)....This was my misjudgement and cost us again. "Not a local" has it's disadvantages!!

The forecast was spot on and we should have trusted it more by putting a few more degrees in the bank in the approach to Nora Hd as the wind went left. Boats ahead made the island without a tack...we had to put in one worth 6 minutes.....that said, so did everyone else, but we had an option earlier and should've put a little in the bank.

Finally, the breeze built from behind on the run home and carried the smaller lighter TPs back into contention. 

4th for us was a reasonable result in very benign conditions that suited others better. The Sunday training session was another solid step forward for the Voodoo croo. Overall, we're happy with the way the program is coming together...

And regarding Comanche - those guys are working a very well disciplined plan. They're putting in the hard yards and getting the result.

How was Box's behavior on the potty...?

 

Interesting to note that Scally decided to go back to Norths from Doyle where Comanche has gone from North to Doyle

I've heard north last longer on the maxi's but we will see

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13 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

12 is light on for sure. Are you sailing with 15 for the Hobart? 

Yep Terra...15 up to hobart. The boat really needs it as we're maxed out with 9kts TWS. It was a handicap for the weekend, but that's ok...these are training sessions and we still have quite a bit of "upside" left to explore...its all looking good. 

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17 minutes ago, PIL66 said:

Interesting to note that Scally decided to go back to Norths from Doyle where Comanche has gone from North to Doyle

I've heard north last longer on the maxi's but we will see

Maybe more a case of wearing the same as WOXI and removing a variable rather than better durability to offset the extra cost.

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Service could be another factor in the change. We changed from North to Doyle in late 2015, the service has been nothing short of fantastic and can't speak highly enough of it.

But I'd imagine a boat like the Injun would be expecting a higher level of service as well.

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19 minutes ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

Service could be another factor in the change. We changed from North to Doyle in late 2015, the service has been nothing short of fantastic and can't speak highly enough of it.

But I'd imagine a boat like the Injun would be expecting a higher level of service as well.

Doyle would want to provide Jim with whatever he wants .... There is not many other boats like the Indian and she's great scalp for Doyle to have....(I know I know).

At the top end it's less about the money and more on product (Shape and features) , service and after service.

We know the North works and is durable and Scally will tell you how durable Doyle has been  (I won't)

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2 hours ago, Couta said:

 

The forecast was spot on and we should have trusted it more by putting a few more degrees in the bank in the approach to Nora Hd as the wind went left. Boats ahead made the island without a tack...we had to put in one worth 6 minutes.....that said, so did everyone else, but we had an option earlier and should've put a little in the bank.

We were tacking for the last hour or more, those behind us even more so. The continuing swing north late in the afternoon didn't help either. Definitely a big boat race. 

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11 minutes ago, PIL66 said:

Doyle would want to provide Jim with whatever he wants .... There is not many other boats like the Indian and she's great scalp for Doyle to have....(I know I know).

At the top end it's less about the money and more on product (Shape and features) , service and after service.

We know the North works and is durable and Scally will tell you how durable Doyle has been  (I won't)

Witty said in that interview that they had a lot of problems on the VOR but north sails durability was not one of them.  

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I think Jim has spoken a fair bit about improving performance and gears for Comanche especially light air. There was definitely an opportunity for sail development on the Big Indian and I wonder who took the initiative with who for that switch to take place. North to Doyle? A bit of a kick in the guts for Ken Read who started the program. New owner, new opinions, new opportunities..........

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5 hours ago, Couta said:

Finally, the breeze built from behind on the run home and carried the smaller lighter TPs back into contention. 

4th for us was a reasonable result in very benign conditions that suited others better. 

Couta am I right in thinking that once around and coming home Langman/Navel were not getting away from you? If so, that is a good sign.

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39 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

A bit of a kick in the guts for Ken Read who started the program. New owner, new opinions, new opportunities..........

Good point, you would think North have a lot of time & data so a big call to move shops. 

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3 hours ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

Service could be another factor in the change. We changed from North to Doyle in late 2015, the service has been nothing short of fantastic and can't speak highly enough of it.

But I'd imagine a boat like the Injun would be expecting a higher level of service as well.

Gorn FRANTIC,

 

I seen to remember hearing stories many years ago about Lou Abraham’s and his reasons that he used other designers and sail maker to most other owners. His view was that the problem with using Farr to design his boats meant that the next 1 toner by Farr was going to be quicker and beat him due to his feed back, back to the Far office. so that’s why he used other designers and he found that he had far better service as well. Lou had the same outlook with sail makers as well and that’s why he used Hood for many years and it seemed to pay off for him for years.

 

So it makes sense for a boat like the “Injun” that is very well funded to try and get the edge and extra service with Doyle instead of Norths. The other thing is Doyle has some great guys with Big Boat Sailing experience as well that they may be able to call on. After all each loft only has so many top sailors to go around and with 3 super maxi’s using Norths and many other well funded boats it may give the “injun” a few better options for crew as well. 

 

Pulpit

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4 hours ago, pulpit said:

Gorn FRANTIC,

 

I seen to remember hearing stories many years ago about Lou Abraham’s and his reasons that he used other designers and sail maker to most other owners. His view was that the problem with using Farr to design his boats meant that the next 1 toner by Farr was going to be quicker and beat him due to his feed back, back to the Far office. so that’s why he used other designers and he found that he had far better service as well. Lou had the same outlook with sail makers as well and that’s why he used Hood for many years and it seemed to pay off for him for years.

 

So it makes sense for a boat like the “Injun” that is very well funded to try and get the edge and extra service with Doyle instead of Norths. The other thing is Doyle has some great guys with Big Boat Sailing experience as well that they may be able to call on. After all each loft only has so many top sailors to go around and with 3 super maxi’s using Norths and many other well funded boats it may give the “injun” a few better options for crew as well. 

 

Pulpit

Lou did have the Hood Melbourne sailmaker as his core crew for many years which probably why his sails were Hood. Later in Lou's sailing life his S38 used North. I believe many of the sort after race boats logos are influenced by their core crew with many top boats spending up big on sails normally have their sail maker as crew as part of the deal.

Interestingly the former Melbourne Hoods sailmaker son who jointly runs the Doyle Melbournes loft also sails on Chutzpar which uses Doyle sails.

my opinion is that the quality of relationship with sailmaker is as important as the logo on the sails

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What’s the story with Ludde & CQS? 

Last I read was a hydraulic breakdown @ Caribbean 600 last winter.

Is Oroton fat and lazy ride for big poohbahs or do they actually get stuck in and race? Nine lines.

From a Laser sailor back in the day:  what’s Glen Bourke up to these days?

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15 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Couta am I right in thinking that once around and coming home Langman/Navel were not getting away from you? If so, that is a good sign.

We were running them down...albeit bringing the breeze with us. Our assessment was that they are not a threat in those conditions. They had 15mins at Bird Island and 8 mins at the finish...

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34 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Dunno, but hopefully pondering on the great CEO job he did fucking a RTW race (Whitbread/VOR) by turning it into a dog and pony show with stopovers in India, Asia etc.

I got all day here.   You got stories?  Please do.

 

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1 hour ago, blunderfull said:

WOXI......oops.   Dropped the last ‘n’ and got nada on search.

GB is CEO of Hamilton Island and sails on WOXI in the back of the boat.  He has skippered at times (Brisbane to Keppel race)

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So, GB’s a behind-the-scenes power broker on WOXI?

Who runs the crew selection part of WOXI?  Richards?

Some big egos on that boat.  Wonder how it all works.   Judging by their S2H record, I’d say they leave that baggage at the dock and just race their asses off.

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20 hours ago, DtM said:

Who from Doyle is sailing on the Injun?

No one

19 hours ago, SCANAS said:

Good point, you would think North have a lot of time & data so a big call to move shops. 

the boat owns the data

18 hours ago, DtM said:

Maybe Nico?

No

 

I could be wrong but i believe hearing somewhere that the Doyle sail, the same size / range as North, is lighter by a worthwhile amount.... now do that over the range and it is a significant factor.

They also don't use torsion lines in the luff saving even more.

Also there's the politics involved and no matter what program it is, the politics exist..... I'll ask some questions and see if I can find more..... 

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41 minutes ago, PIL66 said:

I could be wrong but i believe hearing somewhere that the Doyle sail, the same size / range as North, is lighter by a worthwhile amount.... now do that over the range and it is a significant factor.

North's extra durability comes at a cost, both money and weight. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

41 minutes ago, PIL66 said:

They also don't use torsion lines in the luff saving even more.

Only the Code O isn't it and I think North's have made an equivalent, albeit maybe none sitting in Oz?

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42 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

North's extra durability comes at a cost, both money and weight. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Only the Code O isn't it and I think North's have made an equivalent, albeit maybe none sitting in Oz?

I thought J1 as well

 

36 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

I’d be interested to find out how many Doyle sails will be on Comanche for this race. 

not many..... yet

 

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8 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

I’d be interested to find out how many Doyle sails will be on Comanche for this race. 

Yes love to know more about what sail development has been undertaken to improve their performance. Also like to know how switching to electric has helped the boat in real terms? 

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Ubet betting odds. Waiting for the others to publish theirs, no handicap betting on this site, Scallywag ahead of Black Jack, hummm......

SYDNEY TO HOBART
WINNER
 
Comanche
2.20
 
Wild Oats XI
2.35
 
Scallywag
5.50
 
Black Jack
7.00
 
Infotrack
10.00
 
Maserati
101.00
 
1:00 PM, Wed 26 Dec 2018
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9 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Do they have odds for not getting past the start line, if so put your house on it now.

Yeah they are still listed on the STH site too. As for Infotrack they will be hoping for the right weather. Their light air speed is off the pace compared to the Indian. I almost think their odds should be swapped with Scallywag. SW is the one I am most interested in, new deeper keel and some other changes, Witty saying whole new boat in terms of ability, let's wait and see. 

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23 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

SW is the one I am most interested in, new deeper keel and some other changes, Witty saying whole new boat in terms of ability, let's wait and see. 

The old SW 100 keel was a WOXI cast-off (remember who built the boat...) What’s the new one?

i’ve always felt that l it hasn’t yet lived up to its potential.  It measures in lighter than WOXI by a good margin but also has lateral water ballast if needed IIRC.  Operator factors may still limit it. 

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2 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Also like to know how switching to electric has helped the boat in real terms? 

Hydraulic (not electric) winch power has made a huge difference to the Indian. Watch them rapidly hoist or furl the big sails for a start, then add the ability to trim under full load without getting 6 guys off the rail. Puts them level playing field with the other 100s wrt winches, so boat and crew performance is doing the rest. 

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As always, there is lots of pocket pissing on here about the raging hot favourites for line and handicap honours.

As we all know in the history of this race, they don't always salute the judge at Battery Point so who are the handicap smokies to watch this time, and why?

 

 

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Just now, Flatbag said:

As always, there is lots of pocket pissing on here about the raging hot favourites for line and handicap honours.

As we all know in the history of this race, they don't always salute the judge at Battery Point so who are the handicap smokies to watch this time, and why?

 

 

Ichi, great boat, great team, great budget. 

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2 hours ago, terrafirma said:

I almost think their odds should be swapped with Scallywag.

Scally and BJ deserve to be bracketed together just as the Indian and WOXI are with the Indian now finding a wider range. InfoTrack still deserves longest odds until a forecast appears and if light will need to start worrying more about skinny 60 footers than what is up ahead.

Bookies seem to be slow to react to forecasts making InfoTrack a potential money spinner subject to conditions being tough for an extended period. As for forecasts that might also favour InfoTrack in terms of boat/crew stats wise.

The odds of a thumping increase every year and statisticaly the really physical years over the last 34 have been 1984, 1993, 1998 and 2004 or one every 11 years so we are 3 years or 130% overdue. Or if 2010 (not as tough as the above) is factored in that is one every 8 years so now due this year. If the two worst  of 1984 and 1998 only are accounted for that makes a really really bad one every 14 years, making that 6 years or 140% overdue.

That said I think God is into surprises, not statistics.

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3 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Scally and BJ deserve to be bracketed together just as the Indian and WOXI are with the Indian now finding a wider range. InfoTrack still deserves longest odds until a forecast appears and if light will need to start worrying more about skinny 60 footers than what is up ahead.

Bookies seem to be slow to react to forecasts making InfoTrack a potential money spinner subject conditions being tough for an extended period. As for forecasts that might also favour InfoTrack in terms of boat/crew.

The odds of a thumping increase every year and statisticaly the really physical years over the last 34 have been 1984, 1993, 1998 and 2004 or one every 11 years so we are 3 years or 130% overdue. Or if 2010 (not as tough as the above) is factored in that is one every 8 years so now due this year. If the two worst  of 1984 and 1998 are accounted for that makes a really bad one every 14 years, making that 6 years or 140% overdue.

That said I think God is into surprises, not statistics.

2015? 25 boats out on the first night IIRC 

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16 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

Hydraulic (not electric) winch power has made a huge difference to the Indian. Watch them rapidly hoist or furl the big sails for a start, then add the ability to trim under full load without getting 6 guys off the rail. Puts them level playing field with the other 100s wrt winches, so boat and crew performance is doing the rest. 

Hydraulic Gorillas make such a massive difference, those 6 guys are now trimmers and drivers, everyone is so much fresher which makes changing gears that much easier.

I did Hobart one year with pedestal grinders and the following year with hydraulic and the difference was daylight. Both races had similar running conditions. With the pedestal I was totally spent, had nothing left in the tank at the finish where as with the hydraulic package everything felt so much easier because you weren't totally fucked and dragging your knuckles down the deck. You can trim so much more aggressively without burning out your crew mates. In saying that it was way more satisfying finishing on the pedestal boat because I was totally fucked and I felt like I'd given it everything I had.

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