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1 hour ago, DickDastardly said:

BJ is really short on stability as it's still running the grandfathered tungsten bulbed keel.  it ought t be a fair bit deeper but that's a call they've made.

Dick UBet/TAB are the only ones who have opened betting as listed above by Terra. Sportsbet haven't opened yet. Putting aside some fool who normally looks after greyhounds and has been given the Yacht Bet portfolio.

My thinking is InfoTrack at $10 and BJ at $7  are both great odds at the ugly hard and ugly soft end before weather forecast and ultimately bookie numbers firm up. However maybe like you I'm now starting to feel BJ is a dead loss. Soft downhill only and not even worth a cracker uphill 10/15k by last weekends showing and outings to date. The chances of BJ getting either enough transitions or predominately downhill in that low/med range and more north than east circa 2009 S2H (and Transpac 2009 equivalent) are probably pretty remote.

I'm now starting to think Scally is a far better bet for a soft/med race than BJ where even if they get a short tough spell will escape quicker in one piece and with the potential to take on WOXI as the "S2H all rounder king" and the Indian with a wider range it seems now.

My only other thought is the owner of BJ deserves a friggen break having put so much in to the sport with probably the best V70 on the planet but never got the heavy conditions to suit and or went the wrong way to Hobart. He has now put it all on the line with a light and arguably a one direction 100' with grandfathering that clearly isn't delivering by numbers todate. Should have had more mods?

Fuck hate to be an owner at the big end of the sausage.

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OK...so I've nearly sobered up... and want to say a few things to the SA team that have followed the Voodoo story. Firstly  - Thank you for your support and input! From the outset I've put though

I was on shore for my live interview show, and then live with the ABC Grandstand radio for the start.  Channel 7 has full rights to all live vision - so there was really no point going on the wat

I have received dozen emails/private messages about my tracker for this year. I have updated to new Windy version and I hope it will work on boxing day https://gis.ee/sh/

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The discussion of pedestal grinders and hydraulic winches raises a question in my mind... I have to admit that all of my racing has been in boats 42 feet or shorter, and none of them high-performance enough for those style winches.  All simply jumping halyards and then trimming with a handle in the head of the winch.

Which gets to my question.  Everyone has encountered the occasional scenario where you're cranking a winch and realize it's harder than you should be, so you inspect and realize a line is led wrong or it or the sail is fouled on something...  so you back off, sort things out, and resume the hoist or trim.  An embarrassingly common example is a masthead halyard led through a fractional foretriangle.

How do those scenarios play out with pedestal grinders and/or hydraulic winches?  Does something get destroyed (putting a severe premium on making sure nothing is ever rigged wrong or fouled), or do those winches have some kind of sensors that kill the process if an overload is sensed?  I'm thinking that with hydraulic winches, there's probably zero "human feel" involved to recognize such a situation.

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1 hour ago, Your Mom said:

Does something get destroyed (putting a severe premium on making sure nothing is ever rigged wrong or fouled), or do those winches have some kind of sensors that kill the process if an overload is sensed?  I'm thinking that with hydraulic winches, there's probably zero "human feel" involved to recognize such a situation.

No direct winch sensors (not to be confused with specific rig load sensors etc) other than if max geared load/min line speed is reached, either for hydraulic pump or electric motor and they stop, then if not undersized for task, you have already murdered something long before, hopefully not something human.

The beauty of hydraulics/electric is superior line speed that quickly "converts" to mechanical advantage in response to the load (no different than a manual  winch) but also the problem if that "conversion' is not controlled by the human tailing that line. It is 100% human feel for the human tailor and just happens the thing doing the work doesn't talk back or says it is your shout.

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19 hours ago, blunderfull said:

So, GB’s a behind-the-scenes power broker on WOXI?

Who runs the crew selection part of WOXI?  Richards?

Some big egos on that boat.  Wonder how it all works.   Judging by their S2H record, I’d say they leave that baggage at the dock and just race their asses off.

If they did that they would have won last years hobart

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2 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

If they did that they would have won last years hobart

Outsider take is that Richards popping off when things go sideways is always an issue on any boat.  

Back of that boat sounds like Murray & Richards and the rest when asked.

 

 

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SW is at Birkenhead Pt Marina.

11 hours ago, Flippin Out said:

Where are the 5 x 100's staying ? Are they all at Woolwich or spread out all over the joint ? I've got a Sydney visit coming up in the next week or so and wouldn't mind having a look if they were all together ??

 

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51 minutes ago, blunderfull said:

Outsider take is that Richards popping off when things go sideways is always an issue on any boat.  

Back of that boat sounds like Murray & Richards and the rest when asked.

 

 

My take is that Ricko doesn't listen to the big fella enough.  I didn't notice him asking IM if a certain tack was a good idea ... which is what I think Scarecrow was alluding to.

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10 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

My only other thought is the owner of BJ deserves a friggen break having put so much in to the sport with probably the best V70 on the planet but never got the heavy conditions to suit and or went the wrong way to Hobart. 

Matt Allen waited longer than any and spent more than any..... but look now...

7 hours ago, Your Mom said:

 

Which gets to my question.  Everyone has encountered the occasional scenario where you're cranking a winch and realize it's harder than you should be, so you inspect and realize a line is led wrong or it or the sail is fouled on something...  so you back off, sort things out, and resume the hoist or trim.  An embarrassingly common example is a masthead halyard led through a fractional foretriangle.

How do those scenarios play out with pedestal grinders and/or hydraulic winches?  Does something get destroyed (putting a severe premium on making sure nothing is ever rigged wrong or fouled), or do those winches have some kind of sensors that kill the process if an overload is sensed?  I'm thinking that with hydraulic winches, there's probably zero "human feel" involved to recognize such a situation.

On pedestals the grinders know and so does the the guy on the drum....with power, crew know how many raps on the drum and the tension creaking sound is usually a give away.....

7 hours ago, jackolantern said:

You need a talented crew or you're going to break a lot of things in a very expensive way.

Also load cells on the really crucial things are helpful (headstay, mainsheet, etc.)

Runners are the big one.... big displays for the button guys

 

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Watching all the starts the 100's have had together it's surprising how quickly Oats and BJ go to a reef. The problem with a reef is if you hit a lighter patch your down on power. I'm struggling to find a photo of Comanche with a reef in. As for Scallywag if I were Witty I would have asked Ian Fresh Burns on the boat as the hull was designed by Andy Dovell and they were partners. It's playing politics but that's the game. Fresh has sailed plenty on Wild Oats too and could help the program close the gap IMO. 

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Maxi Finish Video from the Bird Island Race. Thing that stands out to me is the way Comanche's bow is out of the water most of the time whereas the other 2 are pushing water. Throw in the righting moment advantage and sail plan Comanche has you can see why it finished so far ahead.

 

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7 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Maxi Finish Video from the Bird Island Race. Thing that stands out to me is the way Comanche's bow is out of the water most of the time whereas the other 2 are pushing water. Throw in the righting moment advantage and sail plan Comanche has you can see why it finished so far ahead.

 

Chicken and egg.  The RM advantage is what gets the bow up.  Comanche has a huge amount more RM than WOXI and BJ, maybe up to 40% more for  a couple of reasons.  Wide beam - with the boat heeling as much as it is the centre of buoyancy has moved a long way to leeward.  Throw in the fact that Comanche is a couple of tons heaier than WOXI and you have a huge difference in RM (RM = mass x lever arm between CG and CB).  So, that much more RM means a lot more power can be converted to thrust and so the boat gets up and planes like a dinghy, bow up.

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25 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

makes you wonder why they don't have a feedback to the winch drive. Wrap the winch, punch in the desired load to the controller and press go.

Need to measure load at a point that's independent of the gearing, so probably torque on the input shaft - that needs much more sophisticated and integrated electronics than are typically used.  Not that hard to do from a control systems perspective, but significant cost implication over a simple electronic flow valve.  In a perfect world such a winch might have an automatic gearbox fitted that automatically changes speeds when input loads become too high, then declutches when an overload situation occurs - the control logic, systems and mechatronics for this could easily be adapted from DSG transmissions used in cars, but they're way too complex and heavy for a race boat at present.  I'm sure winch manufacturers are thinking about these things though.

Another question is how to prepare for and recover from a tripping event if that leaves a halyard part-up or things in disarray in general...  Not impossible but significantly complex mechanically, electronically and organisationally and a big increase in overall risk.

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Infotrack ex Speedboat 100 was designed by JuanK in 2008. 3 years earler 2005 Alfa Romeo 11 was designed and is now Black Jack. JuanK had 3 years which is an eternity in yacht design to come up with a faster boat. Here are JuanK's comments on the design, interesting read but did he succeed with the boat? 

SPEEDBOAT 100

We were working with BMW-ORACLE during the AC32 Campaign when, in 2006, we were contacted by the Owner who wanted to build a very fast an exciting boat. Since we still had a year to go on the AC, I suggested to use that time to put a team together and do some sailing in a canting keel boat to confirm the brief for the future design. I linked the Owner with Moose Sanderson who was sailing ABN AMRO after the VOR and they both sailed together the Rolex Maxi Worlds in Sardinia onboard ABN. This confirmed the excitement and brief for the next boat, an offshore machine capable of beating the Transatlantic record.

She was therefore designed to sail above 20Kts without compromise for the light air since One can never beat a record in such conditions. Very well built by Coockson in NZ, she was launched in 2008 and immediately showed impressive performance during the Newport-Bermuda race. Unfortunately, the financial crisis hit almost at the same time and the Owner decided to skip sailing her for a while and she was put in a shed. George David took over in 2011 when she became Rambler 100 and did a very good campaign. She started at the Caribbean 600 establishing the race record that still stands today as well as line honors in the Transatlantic race and 2nd in handicap. Unfortunately, she suffered a keel damage while winning the Fastnet race which resulted in her capsize and retirement.

Unfortunately for legal reasons I cannot comment on the reason of the keel failure but I can say that I was happy when George David asked me to design his new boat, Rambler 88. In 2013 she was purchased by an Australian Owner and modified in Australia with a new keel and mast. Unfortunately, she never went back to the level of performance of 2011 but still managed to win the 2016 Sydney-Hobart and establish the present race record.

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VPLP had 9 years of design time & were still slower than WOXI! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just fucking with ya’s! 

I love Juan’s wording about the keel - not allowed to say what happened but the owner asked me to draw him another boat lol. Well said! 

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46 minutes ago, Bill E Goat said:

Kept the bulb, deeper keel,

25.2 deg list at 41 deg cant vs 23.3 in 2017

WOXI has 43 deg cant giving 26.9 list 

WOXI same size main, 27% bigger headsail,12% bigger kite and 3% heavier 

BJ 2018.pdf

WOXI 2018.pdf

Drilling down into both boats VMG numbers Oats rates faster than BJ even at 6 knots beating and running. We know that's not the case. 

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1 hour ago, Bill E Goat said:

Kept the bulb, deeper keel,

25.2 deg list at 41 deg cant vs 23.3 in 2017

WOXI has 43 deg cant giving 26.9 list 

WOXI same size main, 27% bigger headsail,12% bigger kite and 3% heavier 

BJ 2018.pdf

WOXI 2018.pdf

I didn't believe they're allowed to keep the bulb - Tungsten is banned these days but old keels were grandfathered.  I wouldn't have thought they could change the fin without losing the grandfathering protection but what do I know?

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2 minutes ago, DickDastardly said:

I didn't believe they're allowed to keep the bulb - Tungsten is banned these days but old keels were grandfathered.  I wouldn't have thought they could change the fin without losing the grandfathering protection but what do I know?

That is what I was told when getting a tour shortly after she'd arrived in Brisbane

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1 hour ago, Bill E Goat said:

Kept the bulb, deeper keel,

25.2 deg list at 41 deg cant vs 23.3 in 2017

WOXI has 43 deg cant giving 26.9 list 

WOXI same size main, 27% bigger headsail,12% bigger kite and 3% heavier 

BJ 2018.pdf

WOXI 2018.pdf

If you look carefully at those certs BJ is actually measuring in as more stable than WOXI - RM 1670 vs 1635, BJ is 100mm wider than WOXI.  I reckon Comanche would be up around 2500 but it's not measured under ORCi.  Rambler 88 is ORCi rated and has a RM over 2300

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14 minutes ago, DickDastardly said:

I didn't believe they're allowed to keep the bulb - Tungsten is banned these days but old keels were grandfathered.  I wouldn't have thought they could change the fin without losing the grandfathering protection but what do I know?

It is noted in the certificate

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3 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Watching all the starts the 100's have had together it's surprising how quickly Oats and BJ go to a reef. ...I'm struggling to find a photo of Comanche with a reef in. 

This

22 minutes ago, DickDastardly said:

If you look carefully at those certs BJ is actually measuring in as more stable than WOXI - RM 1670 vs 1635, BJ is 100mm wider than WOXI.  I reckon Comanche would be up around 2500 but it's not measured under ORCi.  Rambler 88 is ORCi rated and has a RM over 2300

 

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

This

 

Cheers Jack I realize Comanche has more stability and therefore doesn't need to go to a reef very often. My point should have been more along the lines of seeing Oats put a reef in very early, say 20 knots of breeze. Going through the Hobart starts there should be some footage of them being the only boat with a reef in.? This was more my point, I'm sure one of the Hobart starts shows them one of the last big boats going out of the heads. 

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5 hours ago, SCANAS said:

What is the “dynamic allowance% on ORCI certs?

Is a "Hull" rating credit factor in conjunction with age together with an offset for non-manual power. The definition is: 

Dynamic Allowance (DA) is a credit representing dynamic behavior of a boat taking into account  performance in unsteady states (i.e. while tacking) calculated on the basis of: Beating Sail Area/Volume ratio, Beating Sail Area/Wetted Surface ratio, Downwind Sail Area/Volume ratio,  Downwind Sail Area/Wetted Surface ratio and Length/Volume ratio. It is applied to the ratings of Performance boats incrementally (cruiser/racers in full) with only 20% of the full calculated DA applied in the fourth year and a further 20% in each of the following years until full DA is applied in the eighth year.

So in BJ's case a full credit for Dynamic Allowance and for WOXI having the original hull front half bolted to the wall up at Hammo, no DA credit as her age is listed as December 2015 so until next S2H and her 4th year nothing until then and then only 20% of the total credit.

Scan you shouldn't have asked :-)

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3 hours ago, terrafirma said:

I'm sure one of the Hobart starts shows them one of the last big boats going out of the heads. 

Terra 2015 WOXI started as only one reefed and 3rd out behind Comanche and Loyal. Since then lighter conditions and so all full hoist starts.

Also possibly an explanation behind that conservative reefing approach to the start in 2015 was they were sitting atop a new WOXI hull form and undercooked it. I can't recall if that was Rico's Syd Harbour yelling year or not, but if so, maybe a reason why and venting frustration at his own cock-up.

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6 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Forgive my ignorance but how does "angle of list" go up with a deeper keel? Other mods?

I am guessing that the angle of list if measured in a static condition with max keel cant.  The greater the righting moment, the greater the angle of list.

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21 minutes ago, monosailor said:

It didn’t last Saturday! Only the one centre board

Eh so it is, I originally thought it was still in CBTF config but a pic I saw of it coming back in the heads last week had it looking like twin boards in the up position. 

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10 hours ago, DickDastardly said:

Chicken and egg.  The RM advantage is what gets the bow up.  Comanche has a huge amount more RM than WOXI and BJ, maybe up to 40% more for  a couple of reasons.  Wide beam - with the boat heeling as much as it is the centre of buoyancy has moved a long way to leeward.  Throw in the fact that Comanche is a couple of tons heaier than WOXI and you have a huge difference in RM (RM = mass x lever arm between CG and CB).  So, that much more RM means a lot more power can be converted to thrust and so the boat gets up and planes like a dinghy, bow up.

The other reason the bow spends a long time out of the water is the COB and mast position. In fact Oats cut their boat up and move the mast back in the process to address their bow issues and I guess to take a leaf out of the Indian's book. 

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9 hours ago, terrafirma said:

The other reason the bow spends a long time out of the water is the COB and mast position. In fact Oats cut their boat up and move the mast back in the process to address their bow issues and I guess to take a leaf out of the Indian's book. 

They were heading that way pre Injun

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15 hours ago, SCANAS said:

Doyle sign another one. 

https://www.sail-world.com/news/212742/

From the article 

Quote

Gordon has been the Sailing Master for the Ichi Ban programme in Sydney, Australia. Ichi Ban was just nominated the RORC yacht of the year 2018, and was the 2018 Sydney - Hobart winner.

 Am I reading this correctly? :wacko:

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10 hours ago, terrafirma said:

The other reason the bow spends a long time out of the water is the COB and mast position. In fact Oats cut their boat up and move the mast back in the process to address their bow issues and I guess to take a leaf out of the Indian's book. 

There was footage of Injun and WOXI from last year, somewhere north of Tasman Is sending it in big breeze - the interesting thing was Injun was firehosing the crew whilst in the same conditions Oats was more bow-up & relatively dry

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Sportsbet is up.

Lot of love for Ichi.. Tatts and first non 100 footer home.

No love for RP60'+ for anything.

Virtually guaranteed first to the turning mark is the Indian.

The weird goes to InfoTrack last 100 footer home but sitting in behind Ichi for Tatts?

https://www.sportsbet.com.au/betting/sailing/sydney-to-hobart/sydney-to-hobart-2018-4408639

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3 hours ago, Dark Cloud said:

There was footage of Injun and WOXI from last year, somewhere north of Tasman Is sending it in big breeze - the interesting thing was Injun was firehosing the crew whilst in the same conditions Oats was more bow-up & relatively dry

Awesome footage. 

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3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

WOXI running deeper/higher TWA?

+1 . VMG running at times and they were gaining when the wind went aft. As soon as the Injun had some heat in their angle they were faster. The surprising thing was at the time I expected Comanche to extend their lead as soon as the rounded the pot en route to the Derwent but they didn't really. I think Comanche had a 2 mile lead as they hit the entrance and off course the rest is history. There are 2 trains of thoughts about who won the race really.

1. Oats won they crossed the finish line first.! (Protest Pending)

2. Oats only crossed the line first because Comanche parked up, the protest restored justice to the result.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Sportsbet is up.

Lot of love for Ichi.. Tatts and first non 100 footer home.

No love for RP60'+ for anything.

Virtually guaranteed first to the turning mark is the Indian.

The weird goes to InfoTrack last 100 footer home but sitting in behind Ichi for Tatts?

https://www.sportsbet.com.au/betting/sailing/sydney-to-hobart/sydney-to-hobart-2018-4408639

worth putting money on BJ &./or Oats out the heads -- if its a light start, the Indian is toast

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23 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

+1 . VMG running at times and they were gaining when the wind went aft. As soon as the Injun had some heat in their angle they were faster. The surprising thing was at the time I expected Comanche to extend their lead as soon as the rounded the pot en route to the Derwent but they didn't really. I think Comanche had a 2 mile lead as they hit the entrance and off course the rest is history. There are 2 trains of thoughts about who won the race really.

1. Oats won they crossed the finish line first.! (Protest Pending)

2. Oats only crossed the line first because Comanche parked up, the protest restored justice to the result.

Lot of running last year, if you look at Comanche’s track they did a lot of extra miles over oats. 

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If you were going to bet 1st out the heads BJ would be it. Other aren't worth it IMO. Not sure what the pressure was for the Bird Island start but Comanche won that and looked pretty light to me.? $12 for first out  are good odds for BJ. Would need to be very light, looks like Comanche have closed the light air gap. I'm tipping if we get a forecast that's not too light Comanche will narrow to $2 or may even dip below that for line honours win. The handicap betting is fucked up, not all the boats are there? Infotrack 2nd favourite on handicap..!

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16 hours ago, Tunnel Rat said:

I am guessing that the angle of list if measured in a static condition with max keel cant.  The greater the righting moment, the greater the angle of list.

Yes and no.  Yes that' s the List angle.  For a fixed keeler the RM is calculated through inclining.  Not sure how water ballest or canting keels are set for inclining.  Looking at WOX and BJ RM numbers I can only guess that the keel is pinned in the centre to calculate RM and the List angle calc in some way feeds into the VPP assessment of how much stability the boat has under sail.  That's maybe  why a lighter fixed keeler like Rambler 88 measures in with a massively larger RM.

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13 minutes ago, DickDastardly said:

Yes and no.  Yes that' s the List angle.  For a fixed keeler the RM is calculated through inclining.  Not sure how water ballest or canting keels are set for inclining.  Looking at WOX and BJ RM numbers I can only guess that the keel is pinned in the centre to calculate RM and the List angle calc in some way feeds into the VPP assessment of how much stability the boat has under sail.  That's maybe  why a lighter fixed keeler like Rambler 88 measures in with a massively larger RM.

Rambler 88 is a canter as well.

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50 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

If you were going to bet 1st out the heads BJ would be it. Other aren't worth it IMO. Not sure what the pressure was for the Bird Island start but Comanche won that and looked pretty light to me.? $12 for first out  are good odds for BJ. Would need to be very light, looks like Comanche have closed the light air gap. I'm tipping if we get a forecast that's not too light Comanche will narrow to $2 or may even dip below that for line honours win. The handicap betting is fucked up, not all the boats are there? Infotrack 2nd favourite on handicap..!

I wouldn't back against Spitty at the start of any race

 

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54 minutes ago, DickDastardly said:

Yep, bulb weight being equal it will increase as the static heeling moment at full cant increases with fin depth

Thanks my brain fart forgetting static using keel. I have no idea if employing a "tilted pin angle" on the keel thus generating downhill quite a lift force from the fin but reducing RM is factored in or not in certificates? Probably academic when you can reduce cant angle to gain some RM back.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Thanks my brain fart forgetting static using keel. I have no idea if employing a "tilted pin angle" on the keel thus generating downhill quite a lift force from the fin but reducing RM is factored in or not in certificates? Probably academic when you can reduce cant angle to gain some RM back.

Dunno if ORCi has thought about tilted cant axis.  If it's not rcorded on the cert, probably not.  It was telling that the VOR65s this time around found that les cant = faster due to excessive lift being generated from the fin at the axis angle they run..

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30 minutes ago, DickDastardly said:

It was telling that the VOR65s this time around found that les cant = faster due to excessive lift being generated from the fin at the axis angle they run..

Dick probably the most interesting thing to come out of that race and one that occured post start not in pre-training. It turned a OD follow the leader platform on its ear but still produced close finishes. By aggressively picking marks defined by moving weather, ditching VMG and using VMC to go flat chat 3 headed not deep as per tradition changed the landscape. My guess is that then caused them to quickly cotton on to reducing cant angle in that mode to gain some RM back.

For a Nav the work and stress envolved resetting to twice daily forecasts for weeks on end using that approach is quite friggen scary. In that race under or overshooting a theoretical not actual layline by an hour or so could send you from hero to zero in a leg lasting weeks not days.

Normally you would think this aspect doesn't impact as much on a short course like the S2H.  But the reality is the S2H is quite unique as it has more guaranteed transitions than most other races of the same distance. The theoretical laylines between those VMC points are then are not measured in hours but maybe by minutes.

So with just the above in mind without disparaging anyone but simply saying trying to pick a nearly imeasurable difference between Comanche with Fisher and WOXI with Vila who, both in the last VOR and are astride the two LH favourites. Vila knows WOXI backwards but that is tempered with him not there last year and when on board it was 2 retirements previous and so he last crossed the finish line on WOXI in 2014 pre cut and shunt. Fisher on the other hand his first outing on the Indian on account Stan is not available. That said the data on the hard drive Stan couriered him he won't be wanting, but then just as Burns say on WOXI last year has filled Villa in.

The weird thing is arguably two of the top three navigators in the world are sitting atop the two top favourites, yet with zero actual experience sitting on them in terms of current mode.

That then begs the question what about the other contenders? Tom Addis knows BJ backwards since being built, incl a LH over WOXI and a record with Loyal etc. Capey is on InfoTrack and a bit like Fisher and Vila knowing fuckall about the boat, but showed at the backend of the VOR where you had to be. On Scallywag Miles Seddon a first class journeyman but behind the scenes and last working with Vila on Mapfree as a protege in the last VOR. Sort of indicates Witty hasn't worked out yet the couple of percents going the right way are the difference  in winning, not just being able to find Hobart on a street directory.

So interesting bunch if you subscribe to the theory navigating is the difference and are looking to differentiate between losers and winners.

I don't quite know how I took a cant keel pin inclination and resultant RM discussion into a navigator discussion. Sorry but I will have to blame you Dick.

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On 12/5/2018 at 9:07 PM, monosailor said:

It didn’t last Saturday! Only the one centre board

Changes on a weekly basis according to these forums...! Very flexible boat... Just finished watching the STB press conference and whilst there is confidence there is also so much of the unknown? Comanche leading the way but every boat after her has made modifications to create the unknown. Can't wait for an accurate weather forecast and the Solas race to see some glimpses of form. 

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Seems with 20th Anniversary the archives of time are giving up their secrets.

Renoun navel architect Allan Payne in 1981 concerned about yacht construction in the late 70's gave a speech predicting 6 people would be lost in a S2H race...17 years before it happened in 1998. Both a bit spooky and an interesting snapshot back then of professional opposition towards lighter displacement construction that was taking off outside Aust and in particular France.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-06/sydney-to-hobart-predictions-1998/10584002

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2 minutes ago, lydia said:

Mate, LB 15, he only has to get to Bondi before a big dirty low forms off Gabo.

Years ago we joked that we should pay him not to go!

Send him direct by plane to Hobart to organise beers, rum and pies at the finish. 

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8 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Seems with 20th Anniversary the archives of time are giving up their secrets.

Renoun navel architect Allan Payne in 1981 concerned about yacht construction in the late 70's gave a speech predicting 6 people would be lost in a S2H race...17 years before it happened in 1998. Both a bit spooky and an interesting snapshot back then of professional opposition towards lighter displacement construction that was taking off outside Aust and in particular France.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-06/sydney-to-hobart-predictions-1998/10584002

10587086-3x2-xlarge.jpg

The 7 30 story only told part of the facts.. 3 of the guys in including Jim L didn't get lost overboard but were apparently separated from a raft they were in.

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3 minutes ago, Change said:

The 7 30 story only told part of the facts.. 3 of the guys in including Jim L didn't get lost overboard but were apparently separated from a raft they were in.

If they were on the raft? Surely they are classified as overboard from their vessel you nit-picking, fucking bore. 

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18 minutes ago, Change said:

The 7 30 story only told part of the facts.. 3 of the guys in including Jim L didn't get lost overboard but were apparently separated from a raft they were in.

go and read the real details then get back to us.

https://www.sailingresources.org.au/safety/incident-reports/

 

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8 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Seems with 20th Anniversary the archives of time are giving up their secrets.

Renoun navel architect Allan Payne in 1981 concerned about yacht construction in the late 70's gave a speech predicting 6 people would be lost in a S2H race...17 years before it happened in 1998. Both a bit spooky and an interesting snapshot back then of professional opposition towards lighter displacement construction that was taking off outside Aust and in particular France.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-06/sydney-to-hobart-predictions-1998/10584002

10587086-3x2-xlarge.jpg

Spooky but coincidental.  The 1979 Fastnet was the race that proved Alan right, not sure if this speech pre-dates that but I do know that construction standards changed after that event.  they didn't after the '98 Hobart.  Stability rules did but to be honest they'd have made little difference.  '98 was all about the weather and forecasting - safety standards - equipment, experience played a minor role in how serious the consequences were, but net-net we simply shouldn't have been out there in unexpectedly severe weather.  I got out of it with 5 busted ribs and my previous desire to do 25 Hobart races well and truly quashed.  I've only done one since, but will be back again for the 75th. next December.

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Change said:

The 7 30 story only told part of the facts.. 3 of the guys in including Jim L didn't get lost overboard but were apparently separated from a raft they were in.

Sorta true.  7:30 did downplay the complexity of it.  Steamer glossed over it in his interview too but the incident report is well written and did indeed capture the reality of it.  The crew abandoned ship to the rafts,  the rafts got separated, the crew in one punctured the liferaft floor admit air in the inverted state - a wave having rolled it.  That may have proven a fatal error as that raft then disintgrated and the three guys were separated from the remains of the raft after another big wave belted it.

See Page 170

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