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39 minutes ago, pulpit said:

 

Do they still have the 70 footer ?

even if they don’t they may still have a spare mast and parts from that boat. 

 

Pulpit

Just take 2 seconds to look at the rig geometry before you say anything else. 

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OK...so I've nearly sobered up... and want to say a few things to the SA team that have followed the Voodoo story. Firstly  - Thank you for your support and input! From the outset I've put though

I was on shore for my live interview show, and then live with the ABC Grandstand radio for the start.  Channel 7 has full rights to all live vision - so there was really no point going on the wat

I have received dozen emails/private messages about my tracker for this year. I have updated to new Windy version and I hope it will work on boxing day https://gis.ee/sh/

Posted Images

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, DickDastardly said:

Sorta true.  7:30 did downplay the complexity of it.  Steamer glossed over it in his interview too but the incident report is well written and did indeed capture the reality of it.  The crew abandoned ship to the rafts,  the rafts got separated, the crew in one punctured the liferaft floor admit air in the inverted state - a wave having rolled it.  That may have proven a fatal error as that raft then disintgrated and the three guys were separated from the remains of the raft after another big wave belted it.

See Page 170

 

Apart from yacht construction & stability at the time...

The Coroner didn’t miss giving the incumbent 1998 CYCA Race Director & race management team a good smack…

From page 126 & 127 of the Coroner’s Report…

11.  I find that because the movement of the Race Management

Team, from the CYCA in Sydney to the RYCT in Hobart, was

allowed to proceed in the fashion described, it effectively

deprived the Race Fleet of any control or management during a

critical period.

10. I find that Phillip Thompson and Mark Robinson left the

CYCA at 0830 hours on Sunday 27th December to fly to the RYCT in at approximately

1400 hours.

14.I find that the Race Management Team did not have the

necessary knowledge or understanding of meteorology to enable

it to fully appreciate what was about to occur or what was

occurring.

15. I find that the Race Management Team should have been more

active in seeking information relating to the weather and

communicating that information to the Race Fleet.

16. I find that the roles of the individual members of the Race

Management Team, outside their specialties, were so ill defined

as to render their positions within the Race Management Team

practically useless.

18. I find that the Race Management Team had no emergency or

crisis plan from which guidance could have been obtained.

 

 

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4 hours ago, DickDastardly said:

...we simply shouldn't have been out there in unexpectedly severe weather. 

I cringe at the thought of what happened to you guys.

I think back then BOM for a fee provided the CYCA with race specific forecasts. On Xmas Day BOM issued a "STRONG WIND, 25 to 30 kn (remembering back then this was a 10 minute average + 40% for gusts ) forecast, by Boxing Day morning it was GALE FORCE,  34 to 47 kn (+ 40%) and within a hour after the start was STORM FORCE, 48 to 63 kn (+40%). 

STORM FORCE is the highest category for NSW/Tas latitude yet the RC didn't appear to understand that category or the 40% over average and we're relying on and broadcasting some lesser wind strengths throughout the evening of 26th and morning of the 27th. It wasn't until around midday on the 27th boats were advising 50 to 65 kn gusting higher that the RC truly understood what was happening, despite those fleet observations corresponding nearly exactly to the STORM FORCE forecast issued by BOM to the RC 24 hours previous shortly after the start!! Then all hell broke loose as the low unleashed through that afternoon and evening.

What a tragic cock-up in communication and met technicality which thank god was quickly corrected. Though I have to say some people today read gribs without a over factor.

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I don't see that the weather was "unexpected"... the deteriorating forecast was available to the Race committee but the key players were unavailable (traveling) & when they got the report once they got themselves to Hobart, they didn't understand what Storm Force winds meant and sat on their hands...

The way I read it according to the Coroner.

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58 minutes ago, mad said:

Just take 2 seconds to look at the rig geometry before you say anything else. 

 

42 minutes ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

Surely you jest that all parts and rigging from a 70 footer would not be plug & play compatible with a 100 footer.

Right, you both need to stop and think as well. 

 

There was 2 parts to that question.

1 - Do they still have the old Volvo 70 sitting at Rivergate marine or has it been sold ?

I’ve not been to Rivergate for a few months so I don’t know what’s happened to the old 70 so If the 100 was forced out due to rigging damage, it could be the just the right boat for this years race if the 100 is knocked out and it’s a tuff up wind race don’t you all think ? 

 

2 - I understand that changing parts from a 70 footer to a 100 footer sounds crazy and the geometry on normal boats wouldn’t work so you are both right. 

 

Now you both need to stop and think. If The 70 has the same size mast section  from the same mast builder that the 100 has and it is very likely it is the same builder and section. The BJ crew did change the mast on the 70 to a bigger one from NZ after the boat arrived in Oz and at 1 stage they had 3 masts for the boat.    The 70’s mast is only about 10 m shorter than the 100’s mast.  Then things like the spreaders may attach the same way. Now if you think this way, the spreader lengths between both boats would be very close in being the same length maybe not the same, but you could modify them if needed to suit. After all the 70 is 600mm beamer than the 100.  So unlike most boats and rig set ups things could be closer than most think. 

 

Any way, don’t WOXI have a spare mast still ? 

 

Pulpit

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36 minutes ago, charisma94 said:

I don't see that the weather was "unexpected"... the deteriorating forecast was available to the Race committee but the key players were unavailable (traveling) & when they got the report once they got themselves to Hobart, they didn't understand what Storm Force winds meant and sat on their hands...

The way I read it according to the Coroner.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2994582/Yachting-Thompson-quits.html

Abernathy said: "Thompson's inability to appreciate the problems when they arose and his inability to appreciate them at the time of giving his evidence causes me concern that he may not appreciate such problems if they arrive in the future."

 

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45 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Entries have closed. 

Did they get a new mast for BJ70 or just lengthen it. 

SCANAS,

 

I was told by the then boat crew that the new mast was a new mast from NZ and it was longer, 3-4m longer than the old ones. I was also told that they had 3 masts for the boat. 1 in Europe that wasn’t with the Boat in storage. The old mast hanging in roof of the Rivergate shed and the new longer mast in the boat. 

 

Now or as far as entering the second Boat if needed as a late entry ?

If it was you or I with a smaller boat or a non contender the CYC wouldn’t even look at it and they would tell us to get stuffed. Now if it was the  BJ crew and the CYC could use it too their advantage, think “Wild Thing” and the replacement mast and get media coverage to promotethe race then they would be all to happy to help out. 

 

We  just need to be Rich  and Shameless and have a ego to match and they would do anything for you. 

 

Pulpit

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3 hours ago, charisma94 said:

I don't see that the weather was "unexpected"... the deteriorating forecast was available to the Race committee but the key players were unavailable (traveling) & when they got the report once they got themselves to Hobart, they didn't understand what Storm Force winds meant and sat on their hands...

The way I read it according to the Coroner.

Char that is not correct. If you read my post above the RC had STRONG WIND max 30/42 (gusts) kn on Xmas Day, at Boxing Day Briefing GALE FORCE, max 47/68 (gusts) kn and within a hour after the start STORM FORCE, max 63/87 (gusts) kn and through the evening of the 26th to the morning of the 27th when the RC arrived in Hobart.

Trouble is they transmitted to competitors at all stages over those 2 days, being the day before and day after the start, forecast numbers a fraction of that, simply because they didn't understand BOM's method of measurement even though that was in weather packs distributed to competitors. In that regard many competitors were ignorant but should not have been, albeit in hindsight in their defence BOM's forecast format had a touch of gobblygook about it. They therefore can be excused, the RC however had no excuse as articulated by the Coroner.

The unavailability (like the Club Bar Manager being BOM's only point of contact when RC office was deserted) and travelling issue, was not receipt of information, but BOM when seeing their forecasts being ignored had no one they could effectively contact. BOM were not blameless as it was identified their forecasting approach was convoluted and they should have being more proactive getting their concerns across, particularly when providing it for fee.

For private weather routers like Clouds he was already communicating his concerns to his clients pre-race, but after the start gun is not allowed to make contact with those clients under external assistance regs. He and the guys at BOM must have being going spastic through the night of the 26th seeing that the RC was totally ignorant to what was clearly unfolding.

Much has been made of the Fasnet and the S2H tragedies and parallels drawn. However both are like chalk and cheese. The RORC back then folded in response to lighter displacement construction coming out of France. Australia on the other hand in that period had already made its mind up something was adrift, hence the Allan Payne piece I posted upthread. For instance in the Fasnet one boat that went down with loss of life was a multi spectator, not a competitor. @DickDastardly is quite correct saying the Fasnet heralded in design and construction changes and the 1998 S2H was about RC process and safety.

The most damming things about the S2H is first even with two decades on of weather forecasting technology, invention of the Internet etc, there was a monumental fuckup. Secondly the RO stuck their head in the sand post 1998, ran the 1999 S2H using the same RC and awaited the Coroner's findings in 2000. BOM on the other hand had a more user friendly forecasting format up and running within 5 minutes of 98 ready for the 99 S2H. Upon the Coroner's Report in 2000, the CYCA threw their RC paid hand under the bus, where he arguably he should have been thrown on New Year's Eve 98/99.

It took ISAF/World Sailing via OSR's up to a decade to adopt the Coroner's findings from 1998, then for adoption or not by RC's world wide in their SI's. The majority of competitors don't argue against those as being fundamental to avoiding a repeat of the 1998 S2H. 

However the net result of this CYCA catastrofuck is an over reaction where today people like @PIL66 has got Buckley's seeing his Cat going in a S2H or SH Class 40's lining up on Boxing Day in the foreseeable future until dementia sets in down at Rushcutters Bay. The rest of the world has moved on in 20 years, but not the CYCA. The RdR have just sent 50 SH Class 40's across the Atlantic in shit conditions, spending weeks at sea and no one died. Yet a coastal 600 miler to Hobart they are at risk?

The CYCA are still looking to crucify their own 1998 ghosts, but which no longer exist and fucking offshore sailing participation in Australia while doing that.

It's time for a Coup.

 

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Just following on from the S2H tragedies I distinctively remember that nobody questioned the weather in the manner "Should we still be doing this race?" , "Should we withdraw?" . Is our boat and crew up to racing in these conditions?" It just wasn't the done thing in those days, god forbid if the skipper turned around to his crew and said it's going to be too rough, lets leave it for another year! The preparation and build up was always substantial, you always wanted to get to Hobart no matter IMO. 

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51 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Just following on from the S2H tragedies I distinctively remember that nobody questioned the weather in the manner "Should we still be doing this race?" , "Should we withdraw?" . Is our boat and crew up to racing in these conditions?" It just wasn't the done thing in those days, god forbid if the skipper turned around to his crew and said it's going to be too rough, lets leave it for another year! The preparation and build up was always substantial, you always wanted to get to Hobart no matter IMO. 

Terra that is total disingenuous nonsence that ignores reality. First if you are mislead about the forecast thinking it tough but not deadly why withdraw? That prospect was never broadcast by the RO as a warning until far to late and the belting had already started. 

Secondly when it became obvious the forecast was shit and people started to withdraw, the tragedy is many who did, did so in ignorance of the weather cause and actually prolonged their exposure, particularly those who headed towards shore, instead of scooting north away from it and current over wind, depth etc implications. Those that plugged on, albeit in larger boats, got out of the shitstorm quicker and made it to Hobart, albeit very bruised but alive.

Your concept that it was "bravado" at play is total horseshit.

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21 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Terra that is total disingenuous nonsence that ignores reality. First if you are mislead about the forecast thinking it tough but not deadly why withdraw? That prospect was never broadcast by the RO as a warning until far to late and the belting had already started. 

Secondly when it became obvious the forecast was shit and people started to withdraw, the tragedy is many who did, did so in ignorance of the weather cause and actually prolonged their exposure, particularly those who headed towards shore, instead of scooting north away from it and current over wind, depth etc implications. Those that plugged on, albeit in larger boats, got out of the shitstorm quicker and made it to Hobart, albeit very bruised but alive.

Your concept that it was "bravado" at play is total horseshit.

My comments are general observations Jack. So many boats thought they'd be OK no matter. Certainly not "Bravado" but more an attitude of she'll be right. We'll be ok if you like. I know in 98 I think some boats withdrew very early. Perhaps it was a lack of education or as you say a murky forecast etc. Read a bit slower Jack as you have misinterpreted what i was trying to say. Or is it my English is that bad? :unsure:

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2 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Just following on from the S2H tragedies I distinctively remember that nobody questioned the weather in the manner "Should we still be doing this race?" , "Should we withdraw?" . Is our boat and crew up to racing in these conditions?" It just wasn't the done thing in those days, god forbid if the skipper turned around to his crew and said it's going to be too rough, lets leave it for another year! The preparation and build up was always substantial, you always wanted to get to Hobart no matter IMO. 

Yeh nah crap. Plenty pulled out when it was clearly shit, the real tragedy was as Jack says, many should have chosen better escape strategies.

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Pity no Comanche...Whose gunna win boys? Hard to tip against XI IMO...SOLAS BBC

Start : 12:30
Sail No Boat Name First Name Last Name Design
525100 BLACK JACK Peter Harburg Reichel Pugh 100
SYD1000 INFOTRACK Christian Beck Juan K 100 Custom
AUS1 NAVAL GROUP Sean Langman Reichel Pugh 69
HKG2276 SCALLYWAG Seng Huang Lee Dovell 100
AUS7001 WILD OATS X The Oatley Family Reichel Pugh 66
AUS10001 WILD OATS XI The Oatley Family Reichel Pugh 100
AUS01 WINNING APPLIANCES John Winning Carkeek 60

 

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2 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Perhaps it was a lack of education or as you say a murky forecast etc.

Where I have said or implied "murky"..the RO as transmitted forecast for 24 hours was dead fucking looney.

The race fleet were told by the RO sporty 30's, the RO thinking a race record year and they copped killer 80's. 

That ain't fuckin "murky".

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^

Ya. Because they couldn't get hold of the RD who was in at the airport bar with his phone turned off, you're right, the bar staff at the CY's got the call from BOM, but couldn't/didn't know how to contact the RD, so the race office went with the outdated and ambigous but scheduled forecast when it was about to explode...

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4 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

For private weather routers like Clouds he was already communicating his concerns to his clients pre-race, but after the start gun is not allowed to make contact with those clients under external assistance regs. He and the guys at BOM must have being going spastic through the night of the 26th seeing that the RC was totally ignorant to what was clearly unfolding.

This...^^^^...and the fact that those boats that were experiencing the reality were not sharing their experience with accurate feedback....this changed later when the extent of the disaster was better known.

Our crew were fortunate - the builders delays on the new boat resulted in a very late launch (and in our opinion insufficient sea trial period) and an executive decision to pull the pin on the race (3 weeks from start). The late call was a very tough one and meant nobody could get an alternative ride...that said, we were reimbursed by the owner and I followed the unfolding tragedy from beachside at Noosa. Our ride that year was a Farr40 OD. Our call was a good one. Subsequent sea trials and races uncovered some serious issues with the under built rudder quadrant that resulted in catastrophic steering failure...there's no way that boat should have done the 98 race. That said, if the boat had met its delivery date, I'd say we would have gone....just dumb luck.

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46 minutes ago, charisma94 said:

..so the race office went with the outdated and ambigous but scheduled forecast when it was about to explode...

It wasn't outdated, it was valid as transmitted by BOM at 2.00pm an hour after the start and validated 24 hours later as experienced in true life within 10kn accuracy. The issue is that accurate 2.00 pm forecast the RC then turned into not "send reinforcements we need to advance" but send "three and four-pence. We' re going to a dance."

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And David Adams, professional merchant marine officer and class winner in a singlehanded around the world race, also said in a radio interview that he didn't know what "storm force" meant, so Winston's nav was not the only one.

Arguably, the meteorological community should have been ensuring that their use of a term that means something else in everyday English in almost all circumstances did not lead to confusion. The reason we fund the BOM is to give information, not to obscure it by the use of technical jargon.

 

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43 minutes ago, Curious said:

Arguably, the meteorological community should have been ensuring that their use of a term that means something else in everyday English in almost all circumstances did not lead to confusion. The reason we fund the BOM is to give information, not to obscure it by the use of technical jargon.

 

Yet the major problem remains the RC not communicating the situation fully and clearly (including potential maximum wind speeds) to the fleet. 

Secondly, the term “storm” is simply the Beaufort measure for winds of that magnitude, surprising that any offshore navigator would misunderstand its meaning. 

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Sure, the RC was the issue, and since Phil threw his offsider straight under the bus in his evidence to the inquest, it's hard to feel any sympathy for him.

What Adams said may be surprising, but it's what he said.  Maybe I'm showing the fact that I did most of my offshore racing decades ago and wasn't a naviguesser, but in my experience the Beaufort scale was something that people from other places used; racing out of Sydney we usually just referred to windspeed by knots. The BoM appears to have admitted that they had a communications issue by the way they changed their windspeed information, and I stand by the comment that if you are a public service dedicated to giving vital information to the public then part of your job is to ensure that they understand it. 

As you say, the main problem was that the fleet didn't get the forecast early enough anyway.

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2 hours ago, Curious said:

And David Adams, professional merchant marine officer and class winner in a singlehanded around the world race, also said in a radio interview that he didn't know what "storm force" meant, so Winston's nav was not the only one.

Arguably, the meteorological community should have been ensuring that their use of a term that means something else in everyday English in almost all circumstances did not lead to confusion. The reason we fund the BOM is to give information, not to obscure it by the use of technical jargon.

 

You can get onto the BoM beta testing lists and provide regular feedback to their information delivery formats pretty easily. I do a survey every month or so, with lots of space written comments. One of the first surveys I did I asked for pressure information to be included on the meteye wind forecast, with a decent paragraph explaining why it was useful for recreational marine users, and hey presto it's there now. Obviously I wasn't the only one requesting that info, but they definitely want feedback from communities like sailors

I seriously recommend some of you get involved and try and improve the service.

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1 hour ago, Bill E Goat said:

The scary thing about IB is not only are they winning their winning easily on corrected time. If the French can sail Teasing Machine well (54 Footer) they may give IB a run? The 60 footers may surprise but IB is never too far behind them. IB is a purpose built IRC racer for these conditions with a 1st class crew, they may need to trip over or have a problem on board to give some of the boats a chance. Either that or undeniable weather that suits either the bigger boats or the smaller ones IMO? 

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39 minutes ago, Rantifarian said:

Anyone ever tried to get odds on a boat not yet listed by the bookies? It says others on request, just wondering it's worth the effort. 

There are some strange boats on the list, no tp52 but a Sydney 46 sailed by Russians is there

Yeah usually they list all the boats but have them at the longest odds

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6 hours ago, Curious said:

 

What Adams said may be surprising, but it's what he said.  Maybe I'm showing the fact that I did most of my offshore racing decades ago and wasn't a naviguesser, but in my experience the Beaufort scale was something that people from other places used; racing out of Sydney we usually just referred to windspeed by knots. The BoM appears to have admitted that they had a communications issue by the way they changed their windspeed information, and I stand by the comment that if you are a public service dedicated to giving vital information to the public then part of your job is to ensure that they understand it. 

As you say, the main problem was that the fleet didn't get the forecast early enough anyway.

Fair comment Curious, I was not wishing to be at all critical of your statement of the facts. I recall in the 80’s we would phone up the weather line on Saturday mornings to be told the forecast for coastal waters and it was given in knots, but if a warning was issued it was in Beaufort terminology. No doubt at all that wind speed in knots is far more meaningful. 

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On 12/7/2018 at 3:48 PM, charisma94 said:

I don't see that the weather was "unexpected"... the deteriorating forecast was available to the Race committee but the key players were unavailable (traveling) & when they got the report once they got themselves to Hobart, they didn't understand what Storm Force winds meant and sat on their hands...

The way I read it according to the Coroner.

It was "unexpected" in that the sailors understanding of forecasts wasn't as it now is.  We simply didn't factor in +40% Factor - which is now routinely articulated.  It wasn't back then.

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On 12/7/2018 at 4:24 PM, charisma94 said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2994582/Yachting-Thompson-quits.html

Abernathy said: "Thompson's inability to appreciate the problems when they arose and his inability to appreciate them at the time of giving his evidence causes me concern that he may not appreciate such problems if they arrive in the future."

 

Phil died a couple of years back.  Years prior to the 98 rac e Phil had been a gun crewman, boat nigel,  and deeply embedded in the scene around the CYCA.  At some point he came down with a nasty cancer and had to have an arm and shoulder amputated.  The sailing manager role was given to Phil as a way for him to earn an income and stay in the scene as he could no longer sail or work on boats.  He wasn't an educated guy, just a nice knockabout sort of bloke. He wasn't up to dealing with an emergency situation.

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15 hours ago, Curious said:

And David Adams, professional merchant marine officer and class winner in a singlehanded around the world race, also said in a radio interview that he didn't know what "storm force" meant, so Winston's nav was not the only one.

Probably one of the most damming things to come from the Coronial Enquiry, as representing a total ignorance in Australia of the Beaufort Scale. 

The Beaufort Scale was derived in the early 1800's and settled in the early 1900's save for subsequent adjustments to largely capture extreme events like cyclones/typhoons etc. BOM therefore by using in 1998 the category "Storm Warning" were using a term at least 100 years old. That category was delivered to the CYC one hour after the start (following a "Gale Warning" at the pre start weather briefing) and literally to the hour 24 hours later that Storm Warning transpired in reality within 5kn plus or minus. That said the term Gale Warning was not properly appreciated despite competitors having revieved weather packs describing it.

You then go on to say:

15 hours ago, Curious said:

Arguably, the meteorological community should have been ensuring that their use of a term that means something else in everyday English in almost all circumstances did not lead to confusion. The reason we fund the BOM is to give information, not to obscure it by the use of technical jargon.

Well that is clearly horseshit trying to lay the blame on BOM. But maybe cottoning on you say this in a post 2 hours later acknowledging Australian sailors (but not alone outside Europe) didn't have a clue about the Beaufort Scale you say as follows. Yet you still blame BOM to the extent you invent shit by saying: "The BoM appears to have admitted that they had a communications issue by the way they changed their windspeed information.."

In probably one of the most detailed Coronial Enquiries in Australian history, yet there is no finding in that regard that BOM changed their windspeed directives as you claim. All evidence and conclusions show to the contrary that BOM were ramping their windspeed forecasts up from Christmas Day and peaked an hour after the start. The problem wasn't BOM's, the problem was their message was taken by the RC and incorrectly communicated to the fleet.

13 hours ago, Curious said:

What Adams said may be surprising, but it's what he said.  Maybe I'm showing the fact that I did most of my offshore racing decades ago and wasn't a naviguesser, but in my experience the Beaufort scale was something that people from other places used; racing out of Sydney we usually just referred to windspeed by knots. The BoM appears to have admitted that they had a communications issue by the way they changed their windspeed information, and I stand by the comment that if you are a public service dedicated to giving vital information to the public then part of your job is to ensure that they understand it. 

BOM reacted to 1998 by essentialy making the Beaufort Scale more marine casual user friendly in advance of both the 1999 S2H and pre the outcome of the Coronial Enquiry in 2000. The Coroner acknowledged that where on the other hand the CYCA were still in the fetal position pre his findings over a year after the event as evidenced by continuing with the same RC in 1999. BOM to this day has not changed its reliance on the Beufort Scale for transmitting things like High Seas forecasts in line with international standards of communicating weather forecasts. 

The upside of the tragedy of 1998 is the experience has been absorbed and things implemented via education, offshore regs etc.

However my guess is you are a fuckin slow learner and still 20 years later haven't  bothered to understand the Beufort Scale and think BOM was to blame.

Here is a Xmas present for you and note the "Storm" category as forecast by BOM, transmitted an hour after the start and experienced real time 24 hours later. Compare that to the bizzare forecast somehow transmitted by the RC to competitors indicating it might be sporty and telling the media this is record breaking weather. WTF.

 

images (78).jpeg

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Zen TP52 owner Gordon Ketelbey telling us how to balance the books at the end of the month. Don't know much about their crew and their chances of doing well in this race? When you look at the Ichi Ban crew it's hard to rank the rest of the 52's in some sort of order if they have the sweet handicap spot? I'm looking forward to seeing Teasing Machine 3 and their hot shot French crew race against all the 52's. The blood is starting to warm now..............

 

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Teasing Machine having some fun.! Rumor has it they are bringing some French Liquor, Frog's legs and other assorted carb's to tackle this great race.! Purpose built IRC5 54 versus Australia's best TP52's, interesting times ahead...

 

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Interesting look at Comanche way back at their start, even Tony Mutter's comments re the manual winches etc. Pity Rambler isn't doing the Hobart but  love they way they talked up this race with an 88 footer vs a 100.! 12 feet counts

 

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9 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

TM is a very cool but pro..very fast French program. S2H needs more like them.

S2H needs more amateur teams not pro crews. Be interesting to see what they do next year for the 75th, in regard to inclusiveness. 

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12 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

S2H needs more amateur teams not pro crews. Be interesting to see what they do next year for the 75th, in regard to inclusiveness. 

Yep boats like Ichi are very amateur..yet they fit in well with those really really amateur like  Couta and Co on Voodoo. Scan the combustion engine has been invented, you don't have to take a steam engine to work anymore.

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Shame Hooligan aren't fans of the S2H..! Beating Voodoo out of the heads is pretty impressive. They have also finished in front of Ichi Ban most times so this was like some exhibition? An inshore Day Sailing TP52.? Marcus doesn't like the Ocean? 

https://www.sail-world.com/news/212907/CYCA-Trophy-Series-underway-with-RSHYR-in-sight

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16 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Yep boats like Ichi are very amateur..yet they fit in well with those really really amateur like  Couta and Co on Voodoo. Scan the combustion engine has been invented, you don't have to take a steam engine to work anymore.

It’s still 1986 or 1975 in our world. 

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9 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Probably one of the most damming things to come from the Coronial Enquiry, as representing a total ignorance in Australia of the Beaufort Scale. 

The Beaufort Scale was derived in the early 1800's and settled in the early 1900's save for subsequent adjustments to largely capture extreme events like cyclones/typhoons etc. BOM therefore by using in 1998 the category "Storm Warning" were using a term at least 100 years old. That category was delivered to the CYC one hour after the start (following a "Gale Warning" at the pre start weather briefing) and literally to the hour 24 hours later that Storm Warning transpired in reality within 5kn plus or minus. That said the term Gale Warning was not properly appreciated despite competitors having revieved weather packs describing it.

You then go on to say:

Well that is clearly horseshit trying to lay the blame on BOM. But maybe cottoning on you say this in a post 2 hours later acknowledging Australian sailors (but not alone outside Europe) didn't have a clue about the Beaufort Scale you say as follows. Yet you still blame BOM to the extent you invent shit by saying: "The BoM appears to have admitted that they had a communications issue by the way they changed their windspeed information.."

In probably one of the most detailed Coronial Enquiries in Australian history, yet there is no finding in that regard that BOM changed their windspeed directives as you claim. All evidence and conclusions show to the contrary that BOM were ramping their windspeed forecasts up from Christmas Day and peaked an hour after the start. The problem wasn't BOM's, the problem was their message was taken by the RC and incorrectly communicated to the fleet.

BOM reacted to 1998 by essentialy making the Beaufort Scale more marine casual user friendly in advance of both the 1999 S2H and pre the outcome of the Coronial Enquiry in 2000. The Coroner acknowledged that where on the other hand the CYCA were still in the fetal position pre his findings over a year after the event as evidenced by continuing with the same RC in 1999. BOM to this day has not changed its reliance on the Beufort Scale for transmitting things like High Seas forecasts in line with international standards of communicating weather forecasts. 

The upside of the tragedy of 1998 is the experience has been absorbed and things implemented via education, offshore regs etc.

However my guess is you are a fuckin slow learner and still 20 years later haven't  bothered to understand the Beufort Scale and think BOM was to blame.

Here is a Xmas present for you and note the "Storm" category as forecast by BOM, transmitted an hour after the start and experienced real time 24 hours later. Compare that to the bizzare forecast somehow transmitted by the RC to competitors indicating it might be sporty and telling the media this is record breaking weather. WTF.

 

images (78).jpeg

Jeezers fucking Christ, will you fucking well read what is written instead of assuming that you're god's all-knowing gift to the sailing world! 

I said; "The BoM appears to have admitted that they had a communications issue by the way they changed their windspeed information.." as evidenced in the inquest and in the usual reports they give out now.  You said; "BOM reacted to 1998 by essentialy making the Beaufort Scale more marine casual user friendly in advance of both the 1999 S2H and pre the outcome of the Coronial Enquiry in 2000."

So you said essentially what I said - that the BoM changed the information it gives out - but you're claiming that when I say it it's wrong and when you say it it's right. I didn't say that the BoM changed its forecast for the 1998 race in any untoward way.  I don't need to be told what happened at the inquest because I was actually there a lot of the time and I am aware that Ken was trying to get hold of Thompson to let him know what was happening.   And if, as it appears, you think I'm defending the CYCA then you haven't read my posts or you're just trying to stir up shit to make yourself feel good

The coroner pointed out that many of the BoM's 'customers' in 1998 didn't understand the way the predicted windspeeds the BoM gave did not include the strength of the gusts. As I understand it the BoM followed international conventions, but many of the end users understandably didn't know those conventions. All I'm saying is that the BoM should have checked whether its message was getting through to the end users. Giving the general public "user friendly" language for vital messages instead of professional jargon is just normal good practise that the BoM was not following in 1998. 

As for the terminology of the Beaufort scale, whether people use the terms created by someone who used frigate topsails as a windspeed measurement is not a measure of their expertise, since they are just terms used (and not consistently; even the Great Lakes forecasters use different terms in some ways) to describe windspeed and as I said, around Sydney ocean racing it's more common to use knots. Why is it better to say "Force 10" when you could just say "48-55 knots"???

Since you have once again laid shit on people far and wide, do you mind telling us how many major ocean races or championships you have done and won? You spend a lot of time telling other people how little they know and how much you know, so you must be a legend of the sport and it would be nice to know who we are taking lessons from. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Shame Hooligan aren't fans of the S2H..! Beating Voodoo out of the heads is pretty impressive.

Actually Voodoo got caught up in a starting incident with Smuggler & Hartbreaker.....and did her 720 penalty..so ....

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41 minutes ago, Curious said:

Since you have once again laid shit on people far and wide, do you mind telling us how many major ocean races or championships you have done and won? You spend a lot of time telling other people how little they know and how much you know, so you must be a legend of the sport and it would be nice to know who we are taking lessons from. 

Didn't you know Jacks' the best sailor on the internet? Just ask him.

We now get to watch the dummy spit and abuse... Stand by.

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13 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Probably one of the most damming things to come from the Coronial Enquiry, as representing a total ignorance in Australia of the Beaufort Scale. 

The Beaufort Scale was derived in the early 1800's and settled in the early 1900's save for subsequent adjustments to largely capture extreme events like cyclones/typhoons etc. BOM therefore by using in 1998 the category "Storm Warning" were using a term at least 100 years old. That category was delivered to the CYC one hour after the start (following a "Gale Warning" at the pre start weather briefing) and literally to the hour 24 hours later that Storm Warning transpired in reality within 5kn plus or minus. That said the term Gale Warning was not properly appreciated despite competitors having revieved weather packs describing it.

You then go on to say:

Well that is clearly horseshit trying to lay the blame on BOM. But maybe cottoning on you say this in a post 2 hours later acknowledging Australian sailors (but not alone outside Europe) didn't have a clue about the Beaufort Scale you say as follows. Yet you still blame BOM to the extent you invent shit by saying: "The BoM appears to have admitted that they had a communications issue by the way they changed their windspeed information.."

In probably one of the most detailed Coronial Enquiries in Australian history, yet there is no finding in that regard that BOM changed their windspeed directives as you claim. All evidence and conclusions show to the contrary that BOM were ramping their windspeed forecasts up from Christmas Day and peaked an hour after the start. The problem wasn't BOM's, the problem was their message was taken by the RC and incorrectly communicated to the fleet.

BOM reacted to 1998 by essentialy making the Beaufort Scale more marine casual user friendly in advance of both the 1999 S2H and pre the outcome of the Coronial Enquiry in 2000. The Coroner acknowledged that where on the other hand the CYCA were still in the fetal position pre his findings over a year after the event as evidenced by continuing with the same RC in 1999. BOM to this day has not changed its reliance on the Beufort Scale for transmitting things like High Seas forecasts in line with international standards of communicating weather forecasts. 

The upside of the tragedy of 1998 is the experience has been absorbed and things implemented via education, offshore regs etc.

However my guess is you are a fuckin slow learner and still 20 years later haven't  bothered to understand the Beufort Scale and think BOM was to blame.

Here is a Xmas present for you and note the "Storm" category as forecast by BOM, transmitted an hour after the start and experienced real time 24 hours later. Compare that to the bizzare forecast somehow transmitted by the RC to competitors indicating it might be sporty and telling the media this is record breaking weather. WTF.

 

images (78).jpeg

It’s hard to blame anyone. I totally understand that everyone uses different terms from country to country, but I’ll openly admit that despite 30 some years of racing sail boats, I have no fucking clue what the Beaufort scale means. I’ve heard of of it, but no clue on the values. Other than dopey tradition, I can’t understand why you wouldn’t just say “winds up to XX knots expected.”

Likewise on the storm versus gale wind issue. If I hadn’t read about the 98 Hobart, I’d still be in the camp that had it backwards. 

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4 hours ago, charisma94 said:

Didn't you know Jacks' the best sailor on the internet? Just ask him.

I don’t know about Jack’s qualifications, but unless he is two people, I reckon a GRR sailer gets more sleep than Jack. 

You can also see that less accumulated sleep he has the grumpier he gets !

3R

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On 12/7/2018 at 1:46 PM, pulpit said:

 

Do they still have the 70 footer ?

even if they don’t they may still have a spare mast and parts from that boat. 

 

Pulpit

They can always take Maserati ........

 

Someone is poking the bear...... beer at the ready

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15 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Zen TP52 owner Gordon Ketelbey telling us how to balance the books at the end of the month. Don't know much about their crew and their chances of doing well in this race? When you look at the Ichi Ban crew it's hard to rank the rest of the 52's in some sort of order if they have the sweet handicap spot? I'm looking forward to seeing Teasing Machine 3 and their hot shot French crew race against all the 52's. The blood is starting to warm now..............

 

The boat is fresh out of the shed according to Facebook, getting a bit of structure added before heading out. Their nav is a pretty switched on fella, no idea about the rest of the crew. 

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52 minutes ago, Rantifarian said:

The boat is fresh out of the shed according to Facebook, getting a bit of structure added before heading out. Their nav is a pretty switched on fella, no idea about the rest of the crew. 

Boat looks good. It’s the F40 crew plus a few extras. 

Couple of switched blokes on the boat..

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3 hours ago, Monkey said:

I have no fucking clue what the Beaufort scale means. I’ve heard of of it, but no clue on the values. Other than dopey tradition,

I will admit to being somewhat worried about this. There is nothing dopey traditional about the Beaufort scale. It has international understanding, is in use in all professional seafaring. The nature of weather at sea has not changed over the centuries. No sailor with a professional certificate would be ignorant of the scale. The scale has the intrinsic benefit of providing a set of visual guides that means you don't need a windspeed meter to know what the conditions are. It isn't just for forecasting, it is for communicating conditions. Complaining about tradition, yet we stick with nautical miles and knots. Surely in this modern age of the Internet, computer based weather forecasting and GPS both of those are obsolete, and we should do it all in kilometers? Since you no longer stand at the back of the boat with a sextant running a line out between your fingers counting knots, all our navigation is alo dopey tradition, and we should not expect any sailor to know knots and nautical miles either. We don't, and for good reason.

My day job is in software for safety critical maritime systems. I doubt that anyone who doesn't have a perfect understanding of something as basic as the Beaufort scale gets to stand in the same room as any of our systems.

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2 hours ago, SCANAS said:

A sex changed crew? Beats the all female WOX crew. Where’s the press?

SWEET! Futanari crew! off the charts cool factor, okay really just fucking around here. Just letting everyone know the "super eccentric" is engaged in the thread.

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10 hours ago, Curious said:

Jeezers fucking Christ, will you fucking well read what is written instead of assuming that you're god's all-knowing gift to the sailing world! 

I said; "The BoM appears to have admitted that they had a communications issue by the way they changed their windspeed information.." 

Curious I do read and also read this following on from the above.

On 12/8/2018 at 8:28 AM, Curious said:

..and I stand by the comment that if you are a public service dedicated to giving vital information to the public then part of your job is to ensure that they understand it. 

As you say, the main problem was that the fleet didn't get the forecast early enough anyway.

My apologies as I read that as "one" and a criticism of BOM being the forecast changed and was communicated late by BOM.

BOM had three choices post 1998, noting it wasn't general public marine forecasts under the spotlight but ones they produced solely for the CYCA for a fee and together with explanatory material behind the forecast approach.

1. Not alter what they had been doing for a trillion years with no marine user complaints.

2. Not alter what they had been doing for a trillion years but seek to better educate marine users.

3. Alter their communication approach to be more "descriptive" and with added emphasis to the "over" factors of wind speed and sea state, but still generaly based on the internationaly recognised Beaufort Scale, plus better educate marine users.

They chose the latter and adopted it in 1999 and pre-Coronial Enquiry. This front foot approach took a lot a guts as it essentialy would undermine in advance some aspects of their role/evidence in the Enquiry and colour it's findings.

I therefore don't see BOM's role as the failing of a public sector information provider as you do. 

As for the personal jibes, I'm probably not a good one to cry foul and should shut up. However putting aside my own experience which I'm happy to defend my opinions with, it would appear you may subscribe to the antiquated idea that those that haven't participated are not acceptable sporting pundits or commentators, alongside those who have? I don't know so l will leave it at that.

I'm happy to hear the voice of those who haven't participated to mix with me, I listen intently to those who have, albeit at times we all may annoy the fuck out of each other at times. Opinions are like arseholes and I was born with a lot of them.

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9 hours ago, Monkey said:

It’s hard to blame anyone. I totally understand that everyone uses different terms from country to country, but I’ll openly admit that despite 30 some years of racing sail boats, I have no fucking clue what the Beaufort scale means. I’ve heard of of it, but no clue on the values. Other than dopey tradition, I can’t understand why you wouldn’t just say “winds up to XX knots expected.”

Likewise on the storm versus gale wind issue. If I hadn’t read about the 98 Hobart, I’d still be in the camp that had it backwards. 

Monkey first all countries use the exactly the same scale being the Beaufort as adopted by this mob the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) founded in the late 1800's to unify weather forecasts and warnings around the world and still do so to this day. One objective was to distil into a couple words a wind speed range without utilising forecast windspeed measurements the masses didn't understand or had access to. The Beaufort therefore wasn't dopey tradition adopted by BOM, it has been and remains the world standard for around 150 years and by international treaties etc Aust subscribed to.

https://public.wmo.int/en/our-mandate/weather/weather-forecast

Secondly you are in fine company alongside those like David Adams not understanding that scale and a problem unearthed by the 98 S2H.

So my theory is this. The reality and I think genisus to the problem ticked away for a long time in Australia (and also say in temperate zones in the US with a large landmass extending across a wide latitude spread) until it was exposed by the S2H. 

For instance. Two housewives in say France or Sweden today, places where weather variability over a short time span is extreme have no difficulty with a Beaufort Scale orientated forecast. If they hear on the radio/TV the words "strong" or "gale" they know the washing won't take long to dry. On the hand hearing the word "storm" they are worried the washing line itself may disappear.

On the other hand the majority of Australia's population live on the eastern seaboard where other than at latitudes south of Melbourne and north of Brisbane are very temperate and see no real extreme wind events at the higher range on the Beaufort scale other than the occasional southerly or westetly buster depending on latitude and that often comes with a thunderstorm warning. Consumers in this temperate zone, particularly the terrestrial ones are more interested in the temperature forecast being within a few degrees and something they could rely upon.

Post 98 that now extends to more descriptive forecasts about offshore wind speeds and sea state, which is sort of counter to why the Beaufort was first invented and adopted to generate a wider understanding. That said the Beaufort still sits there underpinning it but with more detail now and readily communicated via the Internet etc and which didn't exist until the mid 1990's.

My experience was it wasn't until sailing outside Australia I first heard (outside books) day to day the words Force (Beaufort) No used and actually not word classification.

We are all therefore not alone.

1934235592_images(78).jpeg.5bca5abdca326f474b7b69a5bde1e7e4.jpeg

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9 hours ago, Monkey said:

 I’ll openly admit that despite 30 some years of racing sail boats, I have no fucking clue what the Beaufort scale means. I’ve heard of of it, but no clue on the values. Other than dopey tradition, I can’t understand why you wouldn’t just say “winds up to XX knots expected.”

multiply by 5, subtract 5. good enough until you get into the highest categories.

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6 hours ago, Francis Vaughan said:

I will admit to being somewhat worried about this. There is nothing dopey traditional about the Beaufort scale. It has international understanding, is in use in all professional seafaring. The nature of weather at sea has not changed over the centuries. No sailor with a professional certificate would be ignorant of the scale. The scale has the intrinsic benefit of providing a set of visual guides that means you don't need a windspeed meter to know what the conditions are. It isn't just for forecasting, it is for communicating conditions. Complaining about tradition, yet we stick with nautical miles and knots. Surely in this modern age of the Internet, computer based weather forecasting and GPS both of those are obsolete, and we should do it all in kilometers? Since you no longer stand at the back of the boat with a sextant running a line out between your fingers counting knots, all our navigation is alo dopey tradition, and we should not expect any sailor to know knots and nautical miles either. We don't, and for good reason.

My day job is in software for safety critical maritime systems. I doubt that anyone who doesn't have a perfect understanding of something as basic as the Beaufort scale gets to stand in the same room as any of our systems.

Worry all you want. It’s reality. For example, this is a direct cut and paste from my local NOAA forecast. Show me where the government folks use Force 1, 2, etc.

Today

W wind 10 to 15 kt. Cloudy through mid morning, then gradual clearing. Waves 1 ft or less.

Tonight

WNW wind around 10 kt. Mostly clear. Waves 1 ft or less.

Monday

WSW wind 10 to 15 kt. Sunny. Waves 1 ft or less.

Monday Night

W wind 10 to 15 kt. Partly cloudy. Waves 1 ft or less.

Tuesday

W wind 5 to 10 kt becoming NNE in the afternoon. Mostly sunny. Waves 1 ft or less.

Tuesday Night

ENE wind 5 to 10 kt becoming S after midnight. Partly cloudy. Waves 1 ft or less.

Wednesday

SSE wind 10 to 15 kt. A slight chance of snow before noon, then a chance of rain and snow between noon and 2pm, then a chance of rain after 2pm. Waves 1 to 3 ft.

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I agree that the prime use of the Beaufort scale has probably reached its natural end, it was originally devised and used before accurate wind strength monitoring was available. It used visuals to describe the weather conditions, hence the visual descriptions used. 

blog_wcNEW-BeaufortScale.jpg.7c7bcb0ddc9dad9e82c16b683987a50e.jpg

 

 

However, here is a snip from today’s met office shipping forecast. 

 

EF2777E6-EC55-4A63-AB6C-F594298E2235.png

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Monkey first all countries use the exactly the same scale being the Beaufort as adopted by this mob the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) founded in the late 1800's to unify weather forecasts and warnings around the world and still do so to this day. One objective was to distil into a couple words a wind speed range without utilising forecast windspeed measurements the masses didn't understand or had access to. The Beaufort therefore wasn't dopey tradition adopted by BOM, it has been and remains the world standard for around 150 years and by international treaties etc Aust subscribed to.

https://public.wmo.int/en/our-mandate/weather/weather-forecast

Secondly you are in fine company alongside those like David Adams not understanding that scale and a problem unearthed by the 98 S2H.

So my theory is this. The reality and I think genisus to the problem ticked away for a long time in Australia (and also say in temperate zones in the US with a large landmass extending across a wide latitude spread) until it was exposed by the S2H. 

For instance. Two housewives in say France or Sweden today, places where weather variability over a short time span is extreme have no difficulty with a Beaufort Scale orientated forecast. If they hear on the radio/TV the words "strong" or "gale" they know the washing won't take long to dry. On the hand hearing the word "storm" they are worried the washing line itself may disappear.

On the other hand the majority of Australia's population live on the eastern seaboard where other than at latitudes south of Melbourne and north of Brisbane are very temperate and see no real extreme wind events at the higher range on the Beaufort scale other than the occasional southerly or westetly buster depending on latitude and that often comes with a thunderstorm warning. Consumers in this temperate zone, particularly the terrestrial ones are more interested in the temperature forecast being within a few degrees and something they could rely upon.

Post 98 that now extends to more descriptive forecasts about offshore wind speeds and sea state, which is sort of counter to why the Beaufort was first invented and adopted to generate a wider understanding. That said the Beaufort still sits there underpinning it but with more detail now and readily communicated via the Internet etc and which didn't exist until the mid 1990's.

My experience was it wasn't until sailing outside Australia I first heard (outside books) day to day the words Force (Beaufort) No used and actually not word classification.

We are all therefore not alone.

1934235592_images(78).jpeg.5bca5abdca326f474b7b69a5bde1e7e4.jpeg

I think we’re on the same page in that it’s “used” world wide, it’s just not actually used in many areas. 

It makes you wonder why they didn’t just tell the fleet “winds over 50 knots and 30-40 foot waves.”  Apparently that’s more confusing than saying storm. 

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54 minutes ago, Monkey said:

I think we’re on the same page in that it’s “used” world wide, it’s just not actually used in many areas. 

It makes you wonder why they didn’t just tell the fleet “winds over 50 knots and 30-40 foot waves.”  Apparently that’s more confusing than saying storm. 

Monkey everyone seems to forget the method of transmission  being radio and exactly the same means to convey forecasts by the RC in 1998 and the length of the race course generating different forecasts at the same time.

For reference here is a transcript incl of typos for a radio forecast for the Fastnet Race and typical in Europe up until the mid 90's pre internet and around the time of the 98 S2H. This forecast was the first transmitted indicating windspeeds greater than Gale Force mid race. It  therefore corresponds roughly to the BOM forecast issued on Boxing Day after the start.

You will see no mention of windspeeds only the Beaufort Force Numbers and Classification being Gale or the greater Storm. 

BTW the main issue with the Fasnet weather forecast was not actual speeds being wrong but only hours warning given rising to a Gale and literally no warning going to Storm.

Gale warning Issued at 2246 broadcast at 2300:

-FASTNET

Southwesterly severe gales force 9, increasing storm force 10, Imminent.

Shipping forcast, Issued at 2330. broadcast at 0015 on 14 August:- There are warnings of gales In Forties, Cromarty, Forth, Tyne,
Dogger, Fisher, German Bight, Humber, Thames, Dover,Wight, Portiand,"Plymouth, Biscay, Finlsterre, Sole, Lundv, Peetnet, Irish
Sea/Shannon, Rockall, Malin. The general synopsis at ,1900 Monday. Low southwest Shannon, 990, expected northwest Scotland, 980, by 1900Tuesday wlth assoolated cold front moving east, expected Viking, German Bight, South Blscav by same time.

The area forecasts for the next 24hours:
LUNDY. FASTNET, IRISHSEA South to southwest veering westerly 7 to severe gale 9, locally storm 10 in Fastnet. Rain then showers. Moderate to good.

Reports from Coastal Statlons at 2300.
SCILLY
Southwest 6/ continuous moderate rain, 3 miles, l002, fallng quickly
VALENTIA
South byeast 6, intermittent slight rain/ 6 miles, 986, falling very rapldly,
MALlNHEAD
Southeast4dogballs miles.998.falling quickly.

The use of radio and employing the Beaufort Scale for transmission clarity is probably not widely appreciated by those used to something different today and with different descriptor expectations.

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14 minutes ago, Al Paca said:

How's Ricko's hair looking these days and at what point on the Beaufort Scale does it go to shit?  

That’s not going anywhere. 

Z.jpeg.5a758ceb702603dbc3c318d0581ee3b5.jpeg

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7 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

MALlNHEAD
Southeast4dogballs miles.998.falling quickly.

Jack, in the above quote, can you tell me wether dogsballs translates to Aussie, as "fucken heaps mate, she'll be right" or fuck all, we are fucked". 

This confusion is what leads to misinterpretation. 

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10 hours ago, doc johnson said:

So.... they beat Voodoo today so pretty impressive 

Hey Doc...check the thread...its about the S2H. Hooligan is an inshore optimised boat - incapable of doing the Hobart. So a super light around the cans TP52 beat an offshore optimised 63 in an around the cans race in a flukey breeze of 8-12kts...what's that got to do with the Hobart? The boys were clearly leading into the harbour and got stuck in hole that Hooligan saw & avoided - that's harbour yacht racing. And the boys were 4 crew short.....it was a training session. The size of the fleet and the entry list gives you an idea of how serious a racing session it was. Impressive...?

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44 minutes ago, Couta said:

Hey Doc...check the thread...its about the S2H. Hooligan is an inshore optimised boat - incapable of doing the Hobart. So a super light around the cans TP52 beat an offshore optimised 63 in an around the cans race in a flukey breeze of 8-12kts...what's that got to do with the Hobart? The boys were clearly leading into the harbour and got stuck in hole that Hooligan saw & avoided - that's harbour yacht racing. And the boys were 4 crew short.....it was a training session. The size of the fleet and the entry list gives you an idea of how serious a racing session it was. Impressive...?

Well anytime a boat 11 feet shorter then you beats you over the line I’d call their performance reasonably impressive .

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1 hour ago, HILLY said:

Jack, in the above quote, can you tell me wether dogsballs translates to Aussie, as "fucken heaps mate, she'll be right" or fuck all, we are fucked". 

This confusion is what leads to misinterpretation. 

Hook Line and sinker.

MALlNHEAD
Southeast 4. 22 miles. 998. falling quickly.

No confusion about that and a lot of information packed into a short radio transmission.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Hook Line and sinker.

MALlNHEAD
Southeast 4. 22 miles. 998. falling quickly.

No confusion about that and a lot of information packed into a short radio transmission.

Its the first time I've heard of 22 referred to as dogsballs, I've never spent any time looking at dogs balls, but whatever floats your boat...

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1 hour ago, doc johnson said:

Well anytime a boat 11 feet shorter then you beats you over the line I’d call their performance reasonably impressive .

Shhhh, its fun watching him polish the turd.

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3 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

I'd hate this style of forecast. But it's what you used to isn't it. 

Yes. 

It's funny being an expat Brit and listening to it again for the first time in at least a decade, it's somehow comforting, albeit completely irrelevant to my locale!

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19 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

I'd hate this style of forecast. But it's what you used to isn't it. 

Terra here is today's official marine forecast in your neck of the woods. Your radio broadcasts are identical are they not, both in English & Mandarin? 

HONG KONG = N TO NE 5-6, OCNL 7. RAIN PATCHES. SEA UP TO 4 M. SWELL N TO NE 2 M. TEMP 13-18 C. 

https://my.weather.gov.hk/wxinfo/currwx/fmar.htm

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39 minutes ago, Couta said:

Swanno, I see you and the doc share a common interest in camping.....best you fellas just stick to that...and leave comments on sailing to those that actually do it.

Yeah that’s a fair call I don’t think anyone could possibly camp and sail that’s just ridiculous . I actually think jimmy spithill didn’t even go to school camp cause it wasn’t worth the risk to his sailing career.

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